Guild Wars 2

Bubi.7942:

I simply hate is when dead people yell “REZZ FFS!!!!!” 3 meters away from the Waypoint, I would slap their dead bodies around if I could.

Sounds like a hyperbole to me. Never have I witnessed someone doing that.

Bubi.7942:

If you are dead in the first place, that means you weren’t doing what you were supposed to. Sure, everyone makes mistakes, that is what downed state is for.

The way I see it, if you just let people stay dead, they have less opportunity to put what they learn into action. If they are laying there dead, they could be observing what to do, reading over chat they missed and attempting to grasp more of what they are ignorant about. You can rez them so they can then put that into action.

Same with people being dead and you being alive. You will continue to suck at getting people up if you never try. You will always be that statistic of player that goes down trying to get someone back up.

All you are doing when laying dead is upscaling, making a potentiel death trap for others, wasting DPS, blocking downed resses. And why? Because you were too cheap to pay 1 silver 40 coppers for a WP.

1. Not proven.
2. It’s called challenge.
3. Not everyone is max DPS specced.
4. Use a utility skill to get that downed up then.
5. You’re making assumptions.

Bubi.7942:

Death in GW2 is way forgiving, almost meaningless and thus people don’t even care if they die. Abolishing armor repair costs was an awful decision.

I’d agree with you. You know, even if an event fails, the game is far too forgiving. You can just try again in a few hours or the next day. So what’s the huge fuss?

I will usually revive someone. With few exceptions.

I won’t revive if:
1-Fully dead
2-In AoE/otherwise dangerous to do so
3-I see they have the hoboton backpack (personal reason)
4-I know they died to something stupid (i.e. purposefully standing in red circles and not moving)
5-I can tell they’re afk (dying because they were standing at a harvesting node or whatever)

I try to be helpful when I can, but if you’re not in my party, a friend, or guild….I will not die trying to help you.

For as long as I’ve played this game (the start) the social norms I’ve always seen and heard has been:

Downed = Ress right away.
Fully Dead = Run back or wait till fight is over.

Just how it is. Has nothing to do with laziness or being a jerk or anything. It’s simply a better use of everyone’s time if the dead run back and the downed get ressed quick as a general rule. As with any rule there are some exceptions, but over all this tends to check out.

Part of the problem is people waiting till the fight is over.

Leo G.4501:

Bubi.7942:

I simply hate is when dead people yell “REZZ FFS!!!!!” 3 meters away from the Waypoint, I would slap their dead bodies around if I could.

Sounds like a hyperbole to me. Never have I witnessed someone doing that.

Bubi.7942:

If you are dead in the first place, that means you weren’t doing what you were supposed to. Sure, everyone makes mistakes, that is what downed state is for.

The way I see it, if you just let people stay dead, they have less opportunity to put what they learn into action. If they are laying there dead, they could be observing what to do, reading over chat they missed and attempting to grasp more of what they are ignorant about. You can rez them so they can then put that into action.

Same with people being dead and you being alive. You will continue to suck at getting people up if you never try. You will always be that statistic of player that goes down trying to get someone back up.

All you are doing when laying dead is upscaling, making a potentiel death trap for others, wasting DPS, blocking downed resses. And why? Because you were too cheap to pay 1 silver 40 coppers for a WP.

1. Not proven.
2. It’s called challenge.
3. Not everyone is max DPS specced.
4. Use a utility skill to get that downed up then.
5. You’re making assumptions.

Bubi.7942:

Death in GW2 is way forgiving, almost meaningless and thus people don’t even care if they die. Abolishing armor repair costs was an awful decision.

I’d agree with you. You know, even if an event fails, the game is far too forgiving. You can just try again in a few hours or the next day. So what’s the huge fuss?

Most of the World Bosses people die to aren’t difficult. They all pretty much come down to “don’t stand in red circles.” For VW I can slightly understand. Gathering the bees and hiding behind the comb for Troll and getting rid of the pustles and stacking for Thrasher aren’t that obvious. What people who have no idea should do is either look up the bosses on the wiki or simply ask in map chat BEFORE they go in. It takes 10 seconds for someone to explain, but to ask them to do it during combat isn’t that good of an idea. Ironically you say what’s the big deal if an event fails if you can just do it another day and at the same time mention people who die not getting a chance to use what they learned from their death.

(Honestly I can’t stand people who have no idea what to do, but don’t tell you until they die. I don’t mind telling you what to do beforehand if it prevents a wipe.)

If they die, since de-scaling isn’t instant, they should just WP back and ask map chat what they did wrong. If they really need to see it being doing chances are there’s a YT version. But again, none of the bosses are that complicated.

As far as sucking at getting people up, what skill is involved there? You press F, root yourself and wait until their HP is up. If I have to dodge or stop ressing multiple times to get you up you’re not worth the res in exchange for the risk and DPS loss. I agree with you guys about repair costs. Coming back after 2 years death felt really trivial and probably contributed to the increase of afkers.

I don’t think it something that needs to be changed, and I think rewarding the people who do it during events would be the worst possible change they could possibly add even if it did need to be changed.

There’s nothing wrong with being dead and not being rezzed. You are never blocked from waypointing (at least not in open world, which I assume is what this is about) so if you want to be alive again, waypoint out. You don’t lose event credit for doing so, its no big deal to waypoint. Some people seem to have this mentality that not getting rezzed is some sort of personal attack or something. Its really not, its just not beneficial to rez the fully dead during events. Its not people being mean, is just people trying to have the best chance at event success. And no, 5 people wasting 10 seconds to rez someone is not beneficial, one extra player is not going to make up the DPS that 5 players could have had during that 10 second period who wasted that time on the rez even if they all manage to not die or get downed themselves in the process.

As for the suggestion to reward rezzing during events… no. Just no. Remember Magic Find? Removed because it was a selfish stat combo that helped only the player wearing it at the cost of overall stats? A “rez reward” would be basically the same thing, but even worse. You’d be encouraging people to rez dead players and waste their own DPS in exchange for a selfish reward.

the biggest reason for this mentality is the fact they are placing timers on big events…. Take away the timers, people will be more willing to rez on the fly. With things getting tougher and the possibility of loss, just means people are going to migrate towards the fastest best way to kill it and quickly. In all honesty it doesnt take long at all to hit the nearest waypoint and run back. I think it all boils down to laziness, most people dont want to put the effort in to running back when someone 2 feet away "might " rez them. They all cling to that hope, and they are usually rewarded by being rezzed 90% of the time.

Leo G.4501:

Can work both ways. Sounds pretty lazy to neglect any given situation with absolute statements like “never rez fully dead players”. Sounds like you’re just too lazy to adapt to changing situations.

You’re delusional if you think that waiting around to be rezzed is ever better than WP’ing and running back. Distracting nearby players from their objective is detrimental to the over-arching goal, and the utilitarian option is to not demand they waste their time when you could easily resolve the problem by yourself.

Leo G.4501:

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

People should never res fully dead players during combat at world events, period.

I do! What ya gonna do bout it?

Don’t be lazy, wp and run back.

Can work both ways. Sounds pretty lazy to neglect any given situation with absolute statements like “never rez fully dead players”. Sounds like you’re just too lazy to adapt to changing situations.

Adapt to changing situation? I don’t think anyone laying down on their kitten can say that while the rest are actually fighting

Simply ways how Anet could improve very effectively the willingless of alot of people to revive other players constantly:

Improve the Reviving Achievement No One Left Behind, beause just reviving 1000 times is just ridiculously fast done.
The Achievement could get so easily improved, giving people more visual rewards for reviving really alot of people over the years to come.

As if something like “Combat Healer” would be already the absolute most epid thing you could call someone, who has revived so many persons, that it would take ages to recount them all to the exact number after several years of playign the game.

That achievement should get improved so something like this:

Combat Healer (Kampfheiler) = 1000 Revives = 25 AP (in total, its 5 AP per Rank to 1000 revives with 5 ranks)
War Cleric (Kriegskleriker)= 5000 Revives = 50 AP (from here on increase the Ap you get per higher ranks, 10 AP per Rank)
Life Saver (Lebensretter)= 15000 Revives = 100 AP , 20 AP per Rank
Blood Saint (Blutheiliger)= 25000 Revives = 125 AP, 25 AP per Rank
Angelic Saviour (Engelshafter Erlöser)= 50000 Revives = 150 AP, 30 AP per Rank
Fate Breaker (Schicksalsbrecher)= 75000 Revives = 175 Ap, 35 AP per Rank
Celestial Entity (Himmlisches Wesen) = 100000 Revives = 200 AP, 40 AP per Rank

Every 100 revives from that point on should reward players with a special shiny celestial winged chest, that will reward players with items like T6 Materials, Lode Stones, Ecto Plasm Globs, Dark Matter or Crafting Materials like Elonian Leather, Damask or Mithrillium. This way will feel reviving players alot more rewarding, to the point, that players will be incentivised to take willingly the risk of maybe dieing at the try to revive someone, because it could be just that one revive needed next to get such a chest reward, if you already have maxed the title ranks out to the new maximum.

Achievement Hunters woudl be the very first, that would go for this for sure, if you get on they way also some nice AP boosts.
—-

Another way to give players more reasons to go for reviving players would be to implement a new “Supporter Level” into the Game as a Game System, which is basically a Rank System that works similar like the WvW Rank System, just not with so extremely high ranks to the 10000, lets say maxes at at Level 20 for now and everytime you rank up in the Supporter Level, you unlock for your Account various different optical things like this:

Gain Supporter Level 1 = Unlocks for your Account the Combat Healer Outfit/Title
SL 2 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 5% in PvE
SL 3 = Unlocks for your Account the War Cleric Outfit/Title
SL 4 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 5% in PvE
SL 5 = Unlocks for your Account the Life Saver Outfit/Title
SL 6 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 5% in PvE
SL 7 = Unlocks for your Account the Blood Saint Outfit/Title
SL 8 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 10% in PvE
SL 9 = Unlocks for your Account the Angelic Saviour Outfit/Title
SL 10 = Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 5%
SL 11 = Unlocks for your Account the Fate Breaker Outfit/Title
SL 12 = Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 5%
SL 13 = Unlocks for your account the Celestial Entity Outfit/Title
SL 14 =Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 5%
SL 15 = Adds an holy Aura around you while you revive in PvE, that protects for 3s from all Conditions
SL 16 = Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 10%
SL 17 = The Duration of the Holy Aura gets increased to 5s for PvE Revives
SL 18 = You receive now a moderate Healing after you finish with reviving in PvE
SL 19 = You gain Stability and Aegis for 3s after a Revive has been completed from now on in PvE
SL 20 = Gain the Outfit/Title “Hope of the Doomed” (Hoffnung der Totgeweihten)

Just make downed and full dead “f-action buttons” clearly different, so you can rez downed people instantly and let the fully dead for when the combat is ended.
If they WP or not is their decision. Just help us revive the downed before is too late.

Orpheal.8263:

Simply ways how Anet could improve very effectively the willingless of alot of people to revive other players constantly:

Improve the Reviving Achievement No One Left Behind, beause just reviving 1000 times is just ridiculously fast done.
The Achievement could get so easily improved, giving people more visual rewards for reviving really alot of people over the years to come.

As if something like “Combat Healer” would be already the absolute most epid thing you could call someone, who has revived so many persons, that it would take ages to recount them all to the exact number after several years of playign the game.

That achievement should get improved so something like this:

Combat Healer (Kampfheiler) = 1000 Revives = 25 AP (in total, its 5 AP per Rank to 1000 revives with 5 ranks)
War Cleric (Kriegskleriker)= 5000 Revives = 50 AP (from here on increase the Ap you get per higher ranks, 10 AP per Rank)
Life Saver (Lebensretter)= 15000 Revives = 100 AP , 20 AP per Rank
Blood Saint (Blutheiliger)= 25000 Revives = 125 AP, 25 AP per Rank
Angelic Saviour (Engelshafter Erlöser)= 50000 Revives = 150 AP, 30 AP per Rank
Fate Breaker (Schicksalsbrecher)= 75000 Revives = 175 Ap, 35 AP per Rank
Celestial Entity (Himmlisches Wesen) = 100000 Revives = 200 AP, 40 AP per Rank

Every 100 revives from that point on should reward players with a special shiny celestial winged chest, that will reward players with items like T6 Materials, Lode Stones, Ecto Plasm Globs, Dark Matter or Crafting Materials like Elonian Leather, Damask or Mithrillium. This way will feel reviving players alot more rewarding, to the point, that players will be incentivised to take willingly the risk of maybe dieing at the try to revive someone, because it could be just that one revive needed next to get such a chest reward, if you already have maxed the title ranks out to the new maximum.

Achievement Hunters woudl be the very first, that would go for this for sure, if you get on they way also some nice AP boosts.
—-

Another way to give players more reasons to go for reviving players would be to implement a new “Supporter Level” into the Game as a Game System, which is basically a Rank System that works similar like the WvW Rank System, just not with so extremely high ranks to the 10000, lets say maxes at at Level 20 for now and everytime you rank up in the Supporter Level, you unlock for your Account various different optical things like this:

Gain Supporter Level 1 = Unlocks for your Account the Combat Healer Outfit/Title
SL 2 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 5% in PvE
SL 3 = Unlocks for your Account the War Cleric Outfit/Title
SL 4 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 5% in PvE
SL 5 = Unlocks for your Account the Life Saver Outfit/Title
SL 6 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 5% in PvE
SL 7 = Unlocks for your Account the Blood Saint Outfit/Title
SL 8 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 10% in PvE
SL 9 = Unlocks for your Account the Angelic Saviour Outfit/Title
SL 10 = Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 5%
SL 11 = Unlocks for your Account the Fate Breaker Outfit/Title
SL 12 = Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 5%
SL 13 = Unlocks for your account the Celestial Entity Outfit/Title
SL 14 =Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 5%
SL 15 = Adds an holy Aura around you while you revive in PvE, that protects for 3s from all Conditions
SL 16 = Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 10%
SL 17 = The Duration of the Holy Aura gets increased to 5s for PvE Revives
SL 18 = You receive now a moderate Healing after you finish with reviving in PvE
SL 19 = You gain Stability and Aegis for 3s after a Revive has been completed from now on in PvE
SL 20 = Gain the Outfit/Title “Hope of the Doomed” (Hoffnung der Totgeweihten)

I like the 2nd change. It gives a boost to people who want to res without causing a systemic abuse like the first one would (e.g people dying on purpose to farm mats, like win-trading). The outfit and title are great too.

My only gripe is that it doesn’t solve the problem that people who won’t WP back often just don’t want to take the time to WP back. It also doesn’t address that fact that ressing (without those great buffs) is not only a DPS loss, but you risk dying yourself.

I do like the idea of giving buffs that help ressing to people who dedicate time to res though.

I don’t rez, I throw elite Banner and dodgeroll ;^) Warrior master race.

My philosophy on this:

1. Is the downed person likely to actually assist in completion of the task at hand? Were they AFK or blindly hitting 1111111111 prior to going down?
2. Is the help needed at this time? If we are struggling or short handed, that should be a valid consderation (see risk portion below).
3. Do I have sufficient participation to have triggered the reward (yeah, kind of selfish, I know)?
4. If so, can I reasonably Rez (or help Rez) without putting myself (or other still alive players) in danger of going down?

HARD rules about this are just silly….weigh the options and act accordingly. While you are being Rezed, there is plenty of time to type a thank you…do it.

Cloudz.6890:

Most of the World Bosses people die to aren’t difficult. They all pretty much come down to “don’t stand in red circles.” For VW I can slightly understand. Gathering the bees and hiding behind the comb for Troll and getting rid of the pustles and stacking for Thrasher aren’t that obvious. What people who have no idea should do is either look up the bosses on the wiki or simply ask in map chat BEFORE they go in. It takes 10 seconds for someone to explain, but to ask them to do it during combat isn’t that good of an idea. Ironically you say what’s the big deal if an event fails if you can just do it another day and at the same time mention people who die not getting a chance to use what they learned from their death.

Mistake #1: dictating what people should do. I’m one of those people that go to wikis and search for youtube tutorials as a LAST resort. I don’t follow anyone’s preset build. I pave my own path, learn from my experiences and mistakes and absorb the situation and attempt to adapt. Not to mention someone has to be the first to learn. And then there are simply the people that learn through experiene, no matter how many wiki pages or videos they skim through.

Mistake #2: uh, these are dynamic events. It is entirely possible for someone to simply stumble into one of these without prior knowledge. Yeah, they might not go asking for advice during the fight but that doesn’t mean they’re going to instinctively hop onto youtube to know what they’re doing or even know where to look.

And yeah, I said the dead person might not get to use their experience if they stay dead. What’s the big woop if an event fails because of it. It’s ironic because you let it be. The two are circumstances that can have vastly differing context, you just choose to give them the same context for irony’s sake.

Cloudz.6890:

As far as sucking at getting people up, what skill is involved there? You press F, root yourself and wait until their HP is up.

Then it should be simple to get people up! Go ahead and scratch off that complaint that dead bodies become a death trap then.

Andred.1087:

You’re delusional if you think that waiting around to be rezzed is ever better than WP’ing and running back. Distracting nearby players from their objective is detrimental to the over-arching goal, and the utilitarian option is to not demand they waste their time when you could easily resolve the problem by yourself.

The utilitarian option is often not the humane one either. It’s stepping on the fallen to reach your goal when it is 4 times out of 5 not necessary. If this is simulated combat and you have soldiers who can be used, you designate people to help them. If this isn’t simulated combat, you can shove the whole “waste their time” excuse since it’s a kitten game.

pandas.9450:

Adapt to changing situation? I don’t think anyone laying down on their kitten can say that while the rest are actually fighting

Well I’m saying it. I’m often not the one lying down on my kitten but I’m often supporting the ones pulling people up quickly.

The only mentality that should be changed is “I’d rather have a few people dying for me than running 10 seconds from a WP”, which is very well showed at Golem Mark II, possibly the closest WP to a fight ever and people lying dead on the ground till final chest.

heh, I made a post about this and even Gaile Grey agreed with me.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-Walk-of-Shame/first#post4799220

I’m not against rezzing dead players, I’ve done so many times in Silverwastes and since I’m often tagged up, ppl will come over to help rez. But I won’t risk ressing someone until we’ve cleared a breathing space. A good commander doesn’t put a lot of troops at risk just to rescue one, particularly if there are safer ways to do it. Although, I have on many occasions jumped on someone to res them while under attack if I’m at full HP and figure I can soak the hits long enough to res. Helpful when I’m on my necro and can res in death shroud.

In Tequatl, there’s usually very little breathing room to res the dead during the DPS phase. I’ve seen whole zergs go down because 5 ppl went to res 1 dead, then when they went down another 10 ppl went down trying to res them and it snow balled from there.

The argument for DPS loss is always cogent. While in combat, it takes at least kitten , if not more, to res a defeated player. Lets assume an averaged DPS of 5000. If it takes that player less than 30s to WP and come back to the fight 150,000 damage points that’s been missed from the fight. If 5 players go to rez the player and, factoring in the reduced time for more players ressing, you’d still be looking at about 30s of res time. That’s 750,000 points of damage that has been missed from the fight. This value is an average so depending on the builds of the various characters, it could be significantly higher or lower.

In high activity events, like Teq or Triple Threat, ressing the defeated has to take lower priority. In wider ranging meta events like SW or Orr, there is more breathing space to do so.

Gern.2978:

The “don’t rez the dead” rule exits to encourage players to not be lazy, and to obey fight mechanics by actually dodging/not standing in red circles, etc. It’s the GW2 equivalent of the “don’t heal people who stand in fire”policy in games like WoW.

This. Please don’t res people mid-combat.

Just get rid of the downed state. It gives an advantage to bigger groups.

No One Left Behind

Well, unless they are just not trying… then meh. Good luck to ’em.

I doubt it’s so much the inconvenience of rezzing due to DPS loss but the hazard of rezzing. As one poster mentioned, the Teq phase 1 is a good example with the poison clouds. Also, in EotM the Ogre Chief can easily overwhelm people trying to rez with all of the fire. People who die generally did so in a danger zone and most people trying to rez will just end up dying themselves. I find most players encourage rezzing the dead – just not dying themselves to do so.

Or we can just encourage people to learn the fight and not die…..

Rez Rushing in any form is unhealty for the game. If you die out during a boss fight use the waypoint and the 2 minute walk back to re-adjust your gameplay style and figure out what you did wrong and fix it.

The main problem to rezzing in combat is bad placement of corpses causing more deaths during rezzing (or impossible rezzes like lava pools). The bonus skills that enhance rezzing are not adequate for boss battles. I can think of three options.

1) Allow for the picking up of corpses (like bundles), slap a cripple effect on the carrier. Corpse is moved to a safer area for rezzing and dropped. I can see this being abused/griefed, but you can always waypoint.

2) The players never really die. Once “dead”, they can crawl outside the danger zone. Sure it can take awhile and DPS suffers, but no more than a trip back from a waypoint. I never understood how a foot rub brought someone back from the dead. And the crawling would look cool during mass wipes. And I see some people crawling just to avoid waypoint fees searching for a rez. The crawling may be abused to get to some areas (crawlers don’t aggro), but I’m not sure how. No jumping and no ability to rezz yourself limit your options.

3)New skills could be introduced for live players to relocate the dead to their position. A pet retrieve skill, a necromancer animate dead, mesmer phantasm walk, etc. I don’t like such a limited use skill. I guess it could be an alternate for skills that normally help downed players only.

Rezzing other players builds a stronger, friendlier community. The don’t rezz the dead mentality sours the community.

Orpheal.8263:

Simply ways how Anet could improve very effectively the willingless of alot of people to revive other players constantly:

Improve the Reviving Achievement No One Left Behind, beause just reviving 1000 times is just ridiculously fast done.
The Achievement could get so easily improved, giving people more visual rewards for reviving really alot of people over the years to come.

As if something like “Combat Healer” would be already the absolute most epid thing you could call someone, who has revived so many persons, that it would take ages to recount them all to the exact number after several years of playign the game.

That achievement should get improved so something like this:

Combat Healer (Kampfheiler) = 1000 Revives = 25 AP (in total, its 5 AP per Rank to 1000 revives with 5 ranks)
War Cleric (Kriegskleriker)= 5000 Revives = 50 AP (from here on increase the Ap you get per higher ranks, 10 AP per Rank)
Life Saver (Lebensretter)= 15000 Revives = 100 AP , 20 AP per Rank
Blood Saint (Blutheiliger)= 25000 Revives = 125 AP, 25 AP per Rank
Angelic Saviour (Engelshafter Erlöser)= 50000 Revives = 150 AP, 30 AP per Rank
Fate Breaker (Schicksalsbrecher)= 75000 Revives = 175 Ap, 35 AP per Rank
Celestial Entity (Himmlisches Wesen) = 100000 Revives = 200 AP, 40 AP per Rank

Every 100 revives from that point on should reward players with a special shiny celestial winged chest, that will reward players with items like T6 Materials, Lode Stones, Ecto Plasm Globs, Dark Matter or Crafting Materials like Elonian Leather, Damask or Mithrillium. This way will feel reviving players alot more rewarding, to the point, that players will be incentivised to take willingly the risk of maybe dieing at the try to revive someone, because it could be just that one revive needed next to get such a chest reward, if you already have maxed the title ranks out to the new maximum.

Achievement Hunters woudl be the very first, that would go for this for sure, if you get on they way also some nice AP boosts.
—-

Another way to give players more reasons to go for reviving players would be to implement a new “Supporter Level” into the Game as a Game System, which is basically a Rank System that works similar like the WvW Rank System, just not with so extremely high ranks to the 10000, lets say maxes at at Level 20 for now and everytime you rank up in the Supporter Level, you unlock for your Account various different optical things like this:

Gain Supporter Level 1 = Unlocks for your Account the Combat Healer Outfit/Title
SL 2 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 5% in PvE
SL 3 = Unlocks for your Account the War Cleric Outfit/Title
SL 4 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 5% in PvE
SL 5 = Unlocks for your Account the Life Saver Outfit/Title
SL 6 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 5% in PvE
SL 7 = Unlocks for your Account the Blood Saint Outfit/Title
SL 8 = Improves your Healing Power when you revive someone by 10% in PvE
SL 9 = Unlocks for your Account the Angelic Saviour Outfit/Title
SL 10 = Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 5%
SL 11 = Unlocks for your Account the Fate Breaker Outfit/Title
SL 12 = Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 5%
SL 13 = Unlocks for your account the Celestial Entity Outfit/Title
SL 14 =Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 5%
SL 15 = Adds an holy Aura around you while you revive in PvE, that protects for 3s from all Conditions
SL 16 = Reduces Damage that you receive in PvE while reviving by 10%
SL 17 = The Duration of the Holy Aura gets increased to 5s for PvE Revives
SL 18 = You receive now a moderate Healing after you finish with reviving in PvE
SL 19 = You gain Stability and Aegis for 3s after a Revive has been completed from now on in PvE
SL 20 = Gain the Outfit/Title “Hope of the Doomed” (Hoffnung der Totgeweihten)

Ah, how innocent. Would look good on paper.

But what would happen is parties of 5 go to Fractals of the Mists lobby, jump off and ress eachother all day to max out AP/Rank.

Im’ not sure what people have to loss if they just run back though.

I understand people don’t like to WP at the end of the battle. Because they might loss out on the rewards.

But if they die at the start of the battle, they can just WP, run back and not loss anything.

Here’s my situation, the problem lies in a world boss battle especially timed ones, is that people who get downed while waiting for a rez is wasting too much time when he could just hoof it back if the wp is not that far. I’d rez a dead guy or two if needed but usually if there is plenty of time left or when it’s safe to do so because the ressurector would be vulnerable themselves if they do the reviving.

Leo G.4501:

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

People should never res fully dead players during combat at world events, period.

I do! What ya gonna do bout it?

Wow. Are you 5 with that comment?

Leo G.4501:

Can work both ways. Sounds pretty lazy to neglect any given situation with absolute statements like “never rez fully dead players”. Sounds like you’re just too lazy to adapt to changing situations.

You seem to either misunderstand, or just ignore my statement by picking stuff out from it without context so that it suites you. Let me point you again to what I said, perhaps this time you will get it:

People should never res fully dead players during combat at world events, period.

Do you now see the difference? No? Let me try again:

People should never res fully dead players during combat at world events, period.

Is it clearer now? It may not be since you don’t seem capable of comprehending basic human logic and just ramble on on your self-righteous crusade.

More to the point of this topic, it is nice to res people and I do it every time I can in the open world, but asking for a res once fully dead at a timed world event is not only not contributing to the success of said event, but actively working against it. You don’t contribute, the people who stop doing the event to res you don’t contribute, downed players who happen to be in the same place cannot be resed easily and fast because people are resing you, warbanners are wasted because it’s hard to tell midfight in a huge zerg if the people are dead or downed, ele weapons that are there cannot be easily picked up… Please, don’t be that guy.

Of course, this does not apply to you, Leo. You are a chosen warrior in the crusade to not do what other, more experienced, people tell you it’s correct to do to succeed at a group event. Because, after all, there must be someone to experience and learn it first, why not be you? What’s that? There have already been people who experienced and learned it first? And second? And third? And 456146529469th? Irrelevant! Who are they to not let you experience it first?! Now onward, and look not back, be the hero everyone (does not know it) needs (and actually doesn’t)! Hoooraaaayyy!

Firebird Gomer.9563:

I imagine that the statement “we don’t rez the dead” is not the plan the Dev’s have for reviving people. I remember when for the first year you could guarantee people would rez you Dead or Downed in the middle of a fight. Certain groups and fights forced this mentality into the norm.

Err…no…

“Strategy” forced this mentality into the norm. This is the right mentality.

People do zerg rez in dungeons if it helps the encounter. Not so much against world bosses because that’s the nature of the fights.

What’s the strategic benefit of not waypointing in a Teq or Golem Mark 2 fight?

Placing additional incentives is the wrong step. Imagine if people started rezzing dead players for a buff to Magic Find, not because the added firepower is crucial to the encounter.

laokoko.7403:

Im’ not sure what people have to loss if they just run back though.

But but but… 1,4 silver man!

If you’re dead on Teq and don’t WP, you should get a negative MF debuff.

And if you AFK near south turrets and are still AFK during the start of the encounter, the game should automatically uninstall.

What really is annoying is not reaching the downed player in time and they die. It’s as annoying as some Ranger or Mesmer knocking your enemy out of all the AOE that’s been spammed on it..

Seriously Rangers, Mesmers and Necro’s stop doing this please! Illusionary Wave, Point Blank shot and fear are not good in comparison to multiple stacks of AOE all damaging the target.

Learn this please.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Healix.5819:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

If 5 people rez someone in 20 seconds you have 6 people back fighting vs 5 people fighting and one person running anything up to 3 – 4 minutes.

Why would you want to sacrifice 5 decent players to revive a single bad player?

Sorry that’s a terrible statement you make there. What if its lag? does that make someone a bad player? I don’t think so.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

I agree always Say Thanks for getting a rez.

Healix.5819:

Every time I see someone pause and say something after I’ve revived them, I think, if you have time to say something, you should be paying more attention. Then rarely, an AoE or something just happened to spawn and they die again.

I have seen plenty of people saying TY while being rezzed so your arguement here is a bit flawed. The other option is to get rezzed get out of danger then say TY when ready or having started 1’ing again.

If you lag, you’re not a bad player but the consequence is the same.
If you lag in a PvP match the game won’t say “oh he’s lagging, lets give him a bye on that kill”, or “oh he’s lagging, lets make him invulnerable”.
It might not be your fault, but also doesn’t mean there’s no consequences for everyone else that you lagged/died. For them its the same thing, they’re not receiving input that you lagged. They only know you let yourself die, it sux, but respawn.

One thing out of this whole topic i think its good to think about is that it does seem that following the logic behind Dry top and the Silverwastes there will be less Waypoints, so during beta lets pay specially close attention to where they are located vs tougher fights and feedback if they need to be somewhat closer to allow people to go back.

I do ress people, and sometimes in normal maps will go out of my way to ress a guy that shows up down/dead on my map.

On the flip side, while playing ranger i often tell people to not ress me if i’m down cause my pet can do it as well, and many times it will be faster to just kill stuff than ress someone.
I can’t tell you how frustrating it is to change target and kill something near a downed guy to just notice he didn’t even ever attack it to rally.

My rules on trying to revive players are;

1) If they are downed but not dead and its safe, get them first.

2) If they are dead and its safe, try and res them. If not and they haven’t waypointed yet I’ll try again during phases (like in Teqatl when he runs off between phases).

3) If they die like twice then I usually leave them alone entirely until the whole thing’s over.

I have been yelled at before for reviving people instead of making them run back and that just seems crazy to me. I don’t know what the other person’s situation on the other end of the computer is. Maybe there new or maybe they’re just a kid. Maybe they’re just someone who breaks down when being yelled at in map chat. If they’re not being mean at all about demanding a revive then I try to help usually.

Nothing needs to change in regards to reviving. There doesn’t need to be a reward or penalty for doing it. It’s fine as is. When my little five man gets together for world bosses, if one of us DIES completely then of course our priority is usually trying to help that person up if its safe. I don’t want a bonus for it.

Encouraging reviving will encourage dead players to just sit around and upscale the event. As it is, death is very forgiving in GW2. Even if you rewarded the rezzer, it would be difficult because standing still is a death sentence. “Rez the dying, leave the dead” is totally acceptable.

Loxsus.3841:

My rules on trying to revive players are;

1) If they are downed but not dead and its safe, get them first.

2) If they are dead and its safe, try and res them. If not and they haven’t waypointed yet I’ll try again during phases (like in Teqatl when he runs off between phases).

3) If they die like twice then I usually leave them alone entirely until the whole thing’s over.

I have been yelled at before for reviving people instead of making them run back and that just seems crazy to me. I don’t know what the other person’s situation on the other end of the computer is. Maybe there new or maybe they’re just a kid. Maybe they’re just someone who breaks down when being yelled at in map chat. If they’re not being mean at all about demanding a revive then I try to help usually.

Nothing needs to change in regards to reviving. There doesn’t need to be a reward or penalty for doing it. It’s fine as is. When my little five man gets together for world bosses, if one of us DIES completely then of course our priority is usually trying to help that person up if its safe. I don’t want a bonus for it.

In a group the situation is a bit different. Usually there’s better communication, you know they didn’t afk and die (or at least assume) and you can see where they are and when they died so you know how long they’ve been sitting there.

As far as yelling at you not to res I can really only say thats appropriate in SW where the boss fights only have a few minutes and taking those 10 seconds to res makes a big difference for DPS. Typically a simple “Don’t res the dead right now” suffices unless the person is adamant on being WB Medic of the Year.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

I imagine that the statement “we don’t rez the dead” is not the plan the Dev’s have for reviving people. I remember when for the first year you could guarantee people would rez you Dead or Downed in the middle of a fight. Certain groups and fights forced this mentality into the norm.

So I would like to suggest a change to rezzing. To go back to the way the game was at the beginning is simple. The arguement that it takes to many people away from DPS is false and flawed. If 5 people rez someone in 20 seconds you have 6 people back fighting vs 5 people fighting and one person running anything up to 3 – 4 minutes.

Give a buff to those who willingly rez the dead. Make it worthwhile to do it. Increase MF. Give a Mastery Point for 5 Death Rezzes. Increase Chance to get an Exo. Anything that might change the mentality of this.

You do realize most bosses short of fractal 50 in this game die in under 20 seconds, right?

Bubi.7942:

how innocent. Would look good on paper.

But what would happen is parties of 5 go to Fractals of the Mists lobby, jump off and ress eachother all day to max out AP/Rank.

Thigs like this example can be also simply fixed by adding something to the Lobby, that makes it impossible after the change for players to jump into their death.
However, my suggestion wasn’t meant to be the ultimate perfect solution for everything to say that to begin with.
People will always try to farm things liek that to get as quick as possible something done.
Anet also did never something against the weapon achievement farmers in Rata Sum, until they were forced to change that place due to the stupid people which overfarmed non stop that place with the halloween stuff that turned white creatures into very valuable loot.

My suggestion don#t affect anything competitive related of the game like PvP or WvW.
All my suggested effects hear are just visual stuff and non competitive PvE only effects that would make reviving other players more fun, cause of it becoming more rewarding for players to risk their own lifes maybe while reviving someone else.

You know “No RISK No FUN”

People revive in GW2 also as long they work on the 1000 revives for the title, or as long in makes sense for them, because otherwise they would most likely lose in what they do currently, like gettign wiped in a dungeon, if you don’t revive quickly your downed players before they get fully defeated.

People in World Events don’t revive others, because its just 100% risk to die to for 0 fun/reward at all doing it and risking yourself gettign downed while doing so.
But if there would be titles/outfits far beyond the fast done 1000 beginner revives and revive skill improving rewards on the road of a for revives made own reward system for supporting others, I think the whole situation in the game would be different, especially if that system keeps on rewarding you every now and then also, even if you already maxed out your supporter level or whatever Anet might rename that system to into somethign more fitting – perhaps name it better “Ally Ranks”

I would surely revive alot more people, if I would know I could get with that strogn supportive gameplay for me unlocked special Outfits that are bonded to cool new titles like my suggestions, where you know, you could get those things only by this way in the game and in no other way, hwat would make those rewards meaningful, because you would instantly know, that if you see a person running around with those title outfits, that they like to support alot and to take reviving other players also serious and go for it.

That some changes to the game would be required to prevent, that such a system ends up into a simple farming list I think should be clear, so that people can’t reach the max rank and unlock those new rewards way too easily by mass farming peopel which kill themself for quick mass free revives and I doubt that peopel would do that, when you could actually do get it also by just playing the game normally.

If I would have to guess, how many times I have already revived other people from the first day of play until tody, i would probably have from the required 100000 revives surely already at least like 20000 if not far more, because reviving somethign in GW2 is such a quick made thing, especially if you revive people, who are only freshly downed, which you revive in a matter of seconds

@ cloudz

Sure, my suggestion doesn#t do somethign about people that ignore to WP and come back quickly because of them being to cheap to pay those 1,4 silver, but it hasn’t to do that. For that problem are other changes required so that people won’t see a problem here anymore.
The game itself needs to WP in world events players way alot quicker by itself.
A timer is needed, that automatically WPs players to the nearest unlocked WP of the dead player, if they don’t manually WP by themself after say 1 Minute.

That ressing needs to be a risk of dieing self should be normal, or would you simply let in a war revive someone of your foes, without trying to hit 2 birds with one stone at that moment to kill both in one strike??
But without any fun/reward about taking that risk to die perhaps too, you won’t lure players into doing revives at all, unless they are still beginners and work on their first 1000 revives for the Combat Healer Title, where you have at least some kind of reward back in your mind for doing all the trouble of reviving others and risking your own life while doing so, because you know, if you have revived so and so many other players, you will get something for it … its always the simple reward mentality, that lets people do constantly the most simplest things for very long time, if just the rewards for doing somethign are proportionally appropiate and worth the efforts and AP, skins, outfits and such visual stuff is the easiest thing ANet can always improve with game mechanics to make these things for players suddenly alot more interesting to do, because out of a sudden there would be an appropiate proportional reward there in sight for a long time, that keeps you entertained while you keep on collectign your revives while playing normaly and do what you like to do in PvE/PvP/WvW, where oyu naturally will more likely collect quicker revives in WvW, because of more constantly dieing allies all around you permanently

But like said above, my ideas weren’t meant to be the “perfect solution” for everything. Theres no perfect solution for anything, everythign wil lalways have pros n cons or something you will find, could be done in an other way better.
My sole intention of my ideas was just to show everybody, that by rewarding peopel with visual fluff, is always the nmost simplest solution to keep people for long terms entertained and incentivised to do something in the game, even such simple things like reviving other players, because the visual fluff carrot is always the most best motivator that harms nothing competitive/balancing retated of the game

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Wow. Are you 5 with that comment?

No, it’s just how seriously I take most of the discussions on this forums now-a-days. Most people would rather be stuck in their ways and force others to follow their path rather than play how they want in a game that is, for past experience, not that difficult or punishing.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Is it clearer now? It may not be since you don’t seem capable of comprehending basic human logic and just ramble on on your self-righteous crusade.

See? Why should I take you seriously. I mean, if I were sitting in a room with you, would you talk to me like that? Do you talk to people like that normally? I’m not threatening you, I’m a very understanding and comprehensive person, but when it comes down to it, this subject isn’t that serious. Taking a blatant absolute stance on something like this feels quite childish. The level people take this game is baffling, quite frankly.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

More to the point of this topic, it is nice to res people and I do it every time I can in the open world, but asking for a res once fully dead at a timed world event is not only not contributing to the success of said event, but actively working against it. You don’t contribute, the people who stop doing the event to res you don’t contribute, downed players who happen to be in the same place cannot be resed easily and fast because people are resing you, warbanners are wasted because it’s hard to tell midfight in a huge zerg if the people are dead or downed, ele weapons that are there cannot be easily picked up… Please, don’t be that guy.

You know, the same can be said for downed. If my inventory is full and there’s loot to be had, it flubs up me trying to rez downed. If a person holding a banner dies, I end up picking up the banner, or whatever dropped stuff is around. So why not suggest FIXING THAT? No, let’s just throw trite quips at people because it’s more funny for people who skim through the forums. Nah, it’s not an issue at all, let me just nag the people that are dead as the source of the problem.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Of course, this does not apply to you, Leo. You are a chosen warrior in the crusade to not do what other, more experienced, people tell you it’s correct to do to succeed at a group event. Because, after all, there must be someone to experience and learn it first, why not be you? What’s that? There have already been people who experienced and learned it first? And second? And third? And 456146529469th? Irrelevant! Who are they to not let you experience it first?! Now onward, and look not back, be the hero everyone (does not know it) needs (and actually doesn’t)! Hoooraaaayyy!

Cool story, bro.

Orpheal.8263:

Bubi.7942:

how innocent. Would look good on paper.

But what would happen is parties of 5 go to Fractals of the Mists lobby, jump off and ress eachother all day to max out AP/Rank.

Thigs like this example can be also simply fixed by adding something to the Lobby, that makes it impossible after the change for players to jump into their death.

Still ways around that. Just make it so rezzing the same person only counts once every half hour (in conjunction with leaping to your death).

You could technically still farm it but it’d be far more lucrative to just jump to world events, tag some mobs and spend the rest of the time rezzing people.

Dante.1763:

“Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.⁶”

That wiki source is from 2011, and simply is not true. Defeated players do count towards boss events and any creature scaling from an event will immediately scale down once it detects a change in the participating players. (Link)

People weren’t reviving for the reason of DPS races and stuff in PSO 2 JP and eventually people complained: both the English speaking players on it and the native Japanese.

Now reviving is encouraged as you get fun points to spend (40 per revival) everytime you revive someone with a revival item. That game however has just plain dead no downed or anything nice like GW 2 has. We can dodge however.

GW 2 needs to add something like karma or what the other member suggested: a new title track + effects for said titles.

I always revive people dead or downed, because I’m
not a kittening kitten!

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

People weren’t reviving for the reason of DPS races and stuff in PSO 2 JP and eventually people complained: both the English speaking players on it and the native Japanese.

Now reviving is encouraged as you get fun points to spend (40 per revival) everytime you revive someone with a revival item. That game however has just plain dead no downed or anything nice like GW 2 has. We can dodge however.

GW 2 needs to add something like karma or what the other member suggested: a new title track + effects for said titles.

I always revive people dead or downed, because I’m
not a kittening kitten!

You already get XP for ressing.

Dead should stay dead until travel to WP, period. No “rezz” allowed. Closer WP could be free in that cases.

If they are in dead state for more than 1 min (for example) they should loose the tag for the rewards.

The players will complain but then after some time everyone will enjoy the game much more, because the players will begin to take care of the environment and the fight flow.

Downed state should take longer, so the other players could have an actual chance to revive an ally.
Having Downed State and Dead State is redundant and cause this kind of bad behaviour within the player community.

Skills could be used to revive a dead(not downed) player, but could be used once an hour on each player to avoid abuse.

Also, armour fix shouldn’t be free. And take some time to fix, so the players will be actually afraid to die.

Bubi.7942:

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

People weren’t reviving for the reason of DPS races and stuff in PSO 2 JP and eventually people complained: both the English speaking players on it and the native Japanese.

Now reviving is encouraged as you get fun points to spend (40 per revival) everytime you revive someone with a revival item. That game however has just plain dead no downed or anything nice like GW 2 has. We can dodge however.

GW 2 needs to add something like karma or what the other member suggested: a new title track + effects for said titles.

I always revive people dead or downed, because I’m
not a kittening kitten!

You already get XP for ressing.

like 50 xp or something yeah… or 0.00000000000001% of a lvl/skillpoint(at lvl 80)

GummiBear.2756:

Bubi.7942:

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

People weren’t reviving for the reason of DPS races and stuff in PSO 2 JP and eventually people complained: both the English speaking players on it and the native Japanese.

Now reviving is encouraged as you get fun points to spend (40 per revival) everytime you revive someone with a revival item. That game however has just plain dead no downed or anything nice like GW 2 has. We can dodge however.

GW 2 needs to add something like karma or what the other member suggested: a new title track + effects for said titles.

I always revive people dead or downed, because I’m
not a kittening kitten!

You already get XP for ressing.

like 50 xp or something yeah… or 0.00000000000001% of a lvl/skillpoint(at lvl 80)

So what? You want a gold medal for pressing F?

yolo swaggins.2570:

Simply giving a buff to players that res the dead is not going to make people want to res them more.

Most players don’t even attempt ressing dead players because:

1. It removes DPS.
2. It roots the player.
3. It increases aggro making lethal boss attacks target them more.
4. Ressing the dead takes longer than ressing the downed.
5. Event scaling doesn’t automatically adjust upon death.
6. The closest waypoint is usually a minute away.
7. It is easier to waypoint or not die.

If you really want that mentality to go away, then you must bypass these issues. Otherwise, your idea is not a good one at all.

This describes perfectly why I don’t rez dead players during world events. At other times I take good pleasure in rezzing people.

Rezzing is ultimately sacrificing your own safety/participation in the game for the benefit of another. I think what it ultimately comes down to is what type of community GW2 actually . I think Anet would say that we are supposed to be collaborative community as evidenced by the movement from gw1 instances to gw2 open world content… however, I think that the players ultimately dictate the true community. Based off of numerous post in this thread, and others…the community (MAJORITY NOT ALL) value what is meta…what in raw numbers is better…cold efficiency… The community is elitist and those who die in these simple world events were not an asset worth investing the slightest time in rezzing.

The sooner you can accept this realization the sooner you will realize that if you want to be rezzed from dead in one of these events you need to go in with a group of friends (not one of the countless pick up groups that form at the event) or guildies, or just people who care about your playing experience more than the random stranger you encounter on a world boss train. And if you don’t have access to these supportive players…then use the way point.

Anet can do a lot to influence the market, the grinds, and even the builds of the player base, but ultimately they cannot change the mentality or culture of the players, short of banning non-community oriented players which would be suicide for the gaming company. And even if they offer some reward for the selfless act of rezzing a stranger…someone with far too much time on their hands is going to crunch the numbers and find that it is probably negligible and we will go right back to the meta of a bunch of strangers meeting up at a set time to zerg a world boss down then dissipate with as little meaningful interaction as possible.

Crey.5263:

Rezzing is ultimately sacrificing your own safety/participation in the game for the benefit of another. I think what it ultimately comes down to is what type of community GW2 actually . I think Anet would say that we are supposed to be collaborative community as evidenced by the movement from gw1 instances to gw2 open world content… however, I think that the players ultimately dictate the true community. Based off of numerous post in this thread, and others…the community (MAJORITY NOT ALL) value what is meta…what in raw numbers is better…cold efficiency… The community is elitist and those who die in these simple world events were not an asset worth investing the slightest time in rezzing.

The sooner you can accept this realization the sooner you will realize that if you want to be rezzed from dead in one of these events you need to go in with a group of friends (not one of the countless pick up groups that form at the event) or guildies, or just people who care about your playing experience more than the random stranger you encounter on a world boss train. And if you don’t have access to these supportive players…then use the way point.

Anet can do a lot to influence the market, the grinds, and even the builds of the player base, but ultimately they cannot change the mentality or culture of the players, short of banning non-community oriented players which would be suicide for the gaming company. And even if they offer some reward for the selfless act of rezzing a stranger…someone with far too much time on their hands is going to crunch the numbers and find that it is probably negligible and we will go right back to the meta of a bunch of strangers meeting up at a set time to zerg a world boss down then dissipate with as little meaningful interaction as possible.

And the reverse could be said here, too. If people cared more about the playing experience of others, if this were a truly great community and your fellow players mattered to you, you wouldn’t expect someone else to sacrifice their game play to pick you back up when you die. You would waypoint out of consideration for your fellow players, the community, and the event.

But mostly it’s hogwash.