Guild Wars 2

Swizzle.7982:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

We did see them in GW1, following the Forgotten, though we didnt know they were called Exalted at the time.

If you assume that Enchanted Armors were Exalted. And we only saw those in the crystal desert.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enchanted_armor

As it is a known fact that Forgotten trained/tested/transformed humans into Exalted during the time of GW1, it would make sense for the Exalted to live with the Forgotten while undergoing that process, and then later be relocated to the Magumma Jungle. If we go out on limb here and say they probably weren’t all trained at the same time, but over the course of 50~100 years or so, that would explain how their golden cities would already be constructed for Saul to find them living in, and yet at the same time, for us to come across them in the desert. You don’t build an entire race at once, especially since the blog post said only those who pasted the test could be come Exalted, which likely means there had to have been multiple test to get enough members to be of any worth.

They didn’t go against any lore thus far. They added more stuff. Sure, they could have used mursaat, even though they are believed to be extinct:

The mursaat were an ancient, terrible race of spellcasters, but have not been seen for hundreds of years and are now thought to be extinct… Lazarus fled, vowing vengeance on “countless generations”. Not long after, the final few mursaat were killed in the Battle for Lion’s Arch, and the race has not been seen since.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mursaat

The way I read that, lazarus is the last survivor of the mursaat. Of course, the Exalted could have been some clever long term plan to get vengeance….

But really, there is plenty of room for more expanded matererial; it isn’t a retcon or a contradiction. Perhaps they missed the opportunity to use something already established here, but nothing contradictory has occurred.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

Swizzle.7982:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

We did see them in GW1, following the Forgotten, though we didnt know they were called Exalted at the time.

If you assume that Enchanted Armors were Exalted. And we only saw those in the crystal desert.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Enchanted_armor

As it is a known fact that Forgotten trained/tested/transformed humans into Exalted during the time of GW1, it would make sense for the Exalted to live with the Forgotten while undergoing that process, and then later be relocated to the Magumma Jungle. If we go out on limb here and say they probably weren’t all trained at the same time, but over the course of 50~100 years or so, that would explain how their golden cities would already be constructed for Saul to find them living in, and yet at the same time, for us to come across them in the desert. You don’t build an entire race at once, especially since the blog post said only those who pasted the test could be come Exalted, which likely means there had to have been multiple test to get enough members to be of any worth.

You know, this could actually be the old mursaat city. The mursaat were essentially destroyed. The exalted and forgotten could have easily taken the city and repurposed it for their own ends, once it was abandoned.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

As it is a known fact that Forgotten trained/tested/transformed humans into Exalted during the time of GW1

Except that’s not true. The only humans to ascend were us, the player character. Even Turai Ossa (868AE) never managed to ascend and that was long before we went to the crystal desert. During the time of GW1 the FORGOTTEN had been, that’s right, forgotten, for hundreds of years.

Hmm, I hope that the info in that blog is also discoverable in game. It actually felt rather disappointingly like a spoiler to read that. I know, I know, ANet can’t win, they either give us too little info or too much. But now I feel like I have meta knowledge that my characters simply wouldn’t know yet

If it is also info that unfolds during stories and NPC interactions, I can let my characters learn it more organically as they come upon Tarir.

Swizzle.7982:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

As it is a known fact that Forgotten trained/tested/transformed humans into Exalted during the time of GW1

Except that’s not true. The only humans to ascend were us, the player character. Even Turai Ossa (868AE) never managed to ascend and that was long before we went to the crystal desert. During the time of GW1 the FORGOTTEN had been, that’s right, forgotten, for hundreds of years.

This is assuming ascencion = turning into exalted, which it didnt, i mean , our characters completed ascencion, yet they didnt become energy beings with floating armor pieces.

AS the them being forgotten, that isn’t being disputed, those chosen wouldn’t come back to civilization and talk about what they were, that they existed and how much fun it was to become an energy being surrounded by armor.

Jeff.4680:

I am beyond disappointed. Golden cities, winged floating creatures…it should have been mursaat.

Some people are making the argument “Ughh well umm the mursaat are bad guys so how could we ever ally with them?”

First of all, look at the Charr
Secondly, the mursaat were the bad guys only from our perspective. If you understand the lore it’s quite clear that they weren’t inheritably evil…more like tried to save themselves.
Thirdly, even if they were “bad guys” 250 years ago…things change. Working with the mursaat over a common interest adds an extra level of dynamic to the story, and there were a million ways they could have gone with that.

I do not know what they were thinking on this one. Instead of building upon well established lore, they shoehorned in a new race of floating spellcasters when we already have two fan-favorites.

I can not help but feel like Anet does not understand their own lore anymore.

First of all, ever since the initial trailer depicted the Exalted, and until now, they have never been depicted as having ‘wings’ that are the trademark appearance of Mursaat, so for the hype bandwagon to shout “Mursaat!” was really just a lore fail on the players part. ANet did not trick you, their plan from the begging, and your vision were simply different, you just assumed otherwise, and got your hopes up. You cant really blame ANet for that… And just because the Exalted are introduced first, does not mean the Mursaat have been forgotten and wont make an appearance.

Was there something in the Lore that told us that the Golden City of the Mursaat Saul found was in Maguuma? Because as I know, he found them in a Forest and Maguuma is… a Jungle. Its more likely that he found them in the Woodland Cascades North of Kryta.

So we have Room for a Golden City in Maguuma without tying it to the Mursaat. Also the Exalted look extremly different to the Mursaat. I think we will deal with the Mursaat in the Raid ( since we have probably White Mantle Activity there ) or in the LS Sea<son 3

Swizzle.7982:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

As it is a known fact that Forgotten trained/tested/transformed humans into Exalted during the time of GW1

Except that’s not true. The only humans to ascend were us, the player character. Even Turai Ossa (868AE) never managed to ascend and that was long before we went to the crystal desert. During the time of GW1 the FORGOTTEN had been, that’s right, forgotten, for hundreds of years.

There is a difference between Ascension and what happened to these transformed humans. It’s not the same, so its fine.

Donari.5237:

Hmm, I hope that the info in that blog is also discoverable in game. It actually felt rather disappointingly like a spoiler to read that. I know, I know, ANet can’t win, they either give us too little info or too much. But now I feel like I have meta knowledge that my characters simply wouldn’t know yet

If it is also info that unfolds during stories and NPC interactions, I can let my characters learn it more organically as they come upon Tarir.

I agree. that felt like a big spoiler. Wish they had let us find all this in game.

The Exalted are the Mursaat and we’re being tricked again. “Exalted” is the new “Unseen Ones” how easy it must have been to trick the Zephyrites after Glint’s death.

“Bring us the baby dragon we’re at our Golden City in the jungle, we’ll look after it, we’re super friends with Glint. Trust us.”

Since the beginning I believed they would be Forgotten followers, as per my wiki page.

EdwinLi.1284:

Well i have a hypothesis and this may allow us to figure out what happened to Saul D’Alessio.

Maybe Saul found this city of Tarir and mistakened the Exalted as the Mursaat. He went back to kryta tell the story of the golden city of Tarir and the Exalted. After that returned to the Maguuma and as the lore stated he was unable to find the city again but he did find the Mursaat. However, since both the Exalted had strong magical powers and both can fly Saul may have mistaken the Mursaat to be the Exalted believing the Mursaat were another form of Exalted.

Using Saul’s misunderstanding the Mursaat pretended to be the Exalted. This may also explain why Saul may have been taken away since Saul knows the location of the Exalted which serves Glint and the Mursaat were after all fighting against Glint’s flameseeker prophecies.

This makes sense.

Another way they could do it is: They mentioned in their post that these exalted went dormant after the city was constructed to conserve their magic. Since this was 300 years ago and not 250 years approx, this could very well be the golden city that did inhabit the Mursaat at a time.

I think that maybe given the construction of this city and training these exalted, give it 10-20 years. If they achieved the state of their city and are deemed prepared, they go into slumber. During the time of the next 30 years, the Mursaat may have enhabited this city for a short while either travelling or escaping from their initial war with the seers(their inital city could have been destroyed). The seers were next to extinction, but I can’t remember if we ever learnt how much damage was done to the Mursaat side.

I like to think that rata sum and its anagram for mursaat may have more meaning from the first game. If it’s so, the initial rata sum which was quickly erected maybe using mursaat buildings or technology as a base would be quicker than to create something anew (when asura were running from destroyers underground). My point being is that maybe the golden city was never the Mursaats to begin with but since they may have lost their initial city, may have been trying to find a place to belong.

They find this uninhabited golden city with dormant pieces of armour lying around and chose to stay there for awhile; Saul D’Alessio comes by afterwards then they decide they can try expanding their influence over the human race as a stepping stone from the golden city as a base. They then use the armours as a base for the jade bows and armours (The armours do have 6 eyes like the margonites though so unsure about it) and use them in the flameseeker prophecies.

As the War in Kryta was terminating, their plan backfired. With the winning side of the war, the Shining Blade were very adept in jungle travel and could have tracked the Mursaat to the golden city which may have forced them to move elsewhere (afterall, the White Mantle and Shining Blade have been at a cold war ever since); maybe deeper into the jungle with the white mantle and possibly show up in raids. XD

lordkrall.7241:

Swizzle.7982:

Whole thing is dumb. Golden cities, should have been mursaat.

Either this is some ruse to throw people off, or anet have really just thrown all the old lore out and are just making up nonsense now. If these things were created 300 years ago then why did glint never mention them, why did we never see them in gw1?

But they were there all along! loooool, pls hire new lore writers anet.

If the elder dragons had risen multiple times before, why didn’t anyone mention them in GW1?

Coz retcon?

dsslive.8473:

Swizzle.7982:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

As it is a known fact that Forgotten trained/tested/transformed humans into Exalted during the time of GW1

Except that’s not true. The only humans to ascend were us, the player character. Even Turai Ossa (868AE) never managed to ascend and that was long before we went to the crystal desert. During the time of GW1 the FORGOTTEN had been, that’s right, forgotten, for hundreds of years.

This is assuming ascencion = turning into exalted, which it didnt, i mean , our characters completed ascencion, yet they didnt become energy beings with floating armor pieces.

AS the them being forgotten, that isn’t being disputed, those chosen wouldn’t come back to civilization and talk about what they were, that they existed and how much fun it was to become an energy being surrounded by armor.

I think the theory is still possible if we only went through a partial ascension, if there were in fact, more steps, that we did not go through; if there was a different, more ultimate type of Ascension; OR, if the effects of the transformation take a while to kick in.

As for us being the only ones to Ascend… well, I certainly wasn’t the only player in GW1 to ascend… I had an entire guild and friend’s list of heroes who ascended with me, and fought at my side. The only problem with that theory, is that we fought Exalted-in-training while we were being tested for Ascension, so we know that Exalted were created before any of the players Ascended, yet given their birth date of 300 years, we also know they were created after Turai Ossa failed to ascend. So unless they trained and tested and entire race to ascend in secret without Turai knowing, then that theory is debunked.

There is a different process in creating Exalted that does not involve Ascension, and our player characters from GW1 did not become Exalted.

witcher.3197:

lordkrall.7241:

Swizzle.7982:

Whole thing is dumb. Golden cities, should have been mursaat.

Either this is some ruse to throw people off, or anet have really just thrown all the old lore out and are just making up nonsense now. If these things were created 300 years ago then why did glint never mention them, why did we never see them in gw1?

But they were there all along! loooool, pls hire new lore writers anet.

If the elder dragons had risen multiple times before, why didn’t anyone mention them in GW1?

Coz retcon?

Last time they raised was before humans came to Tryia, and in GW1, humans werent exactly friendly with the races that previously fought/survived against the dragon. Also, why bother telling humans about a race of mythical creatures that will decend upon them and kill them all. would you believe it? Also, it wasnt really relevant at the time.

I demand woodenpotatoes’ opinion on this.

I DEMAND IT.

Nicely of course.

Wynn The Charmer.2510:

EdwinLi.1284:

Well i have a hypothesis and this may allow us to figure out what happened to Saul D’Alessio.

Maybe Saul found this city of Tarir and mistakened the Exalted as the Mursaat. He went back to kryta tell the story of the golden city of Tarir and the Exalted. After that returned to the Maguuma and as the lore stated he was unable to find the city again but he did find the Mursaat. However, since both the Exalted had strong magical powers and both can fly Saul may have mistaken the Mursaat to be the Exalted believing the Mursaat were another form of Exalted.

Using Saul’s misunderstanding the Mursaat pretended to be the Exalted. This may also explain why Saul may have been taken away since Saul knows the location of the Exalted which serves Glint and the Mursaat were after all fighting against Glint’s flameseeker prophecies.

This makes sense.

Another way they could do it is: They mentioned in their post that these exalted went dormant after the city was constructed to conserve their magic. Since this was 300 years ago and not 250 years approx, this could very well be the golden city that did inhabit the Mursaat at a time.

I think that maybe given the construction of this city and training these exalted, give it 10-20 years. If they achieved the state of their city and are deemed prepared, they go into slumber. During the time of the next 30 years, the Mursaat may have enhabited this city for a short while either travelling or escaping from their initial war with the seers(their inital city could have been destroyed). The seers were next to extinction, but I can’t remember if we ever learnt how much damage was done to the Mursaat side.

I like to think that rata sum and its anagram for mursaat may have more meaning from the first game. If it’s so, the initial rata sum which was quickly erected maybe using mursaat buildings or technology as a base would be quicker than to create something anew (when asura were running from destroyers underground). My point being is that maybe the golden city was never the Mursaats to begin with but since they may have lost their initial city, may have been trying to find a place to belong.

They find this uninhabited golden city with dormant pieces of armour lying around and chose to stay there for awhile; Saul D’Alessio comes by afterwards then they decide they can try expanding their influence over the human race as a stepping stone from the golden city as a base. They then use the armours as a base for the jade bows and armours (The armours do have 6 eyes like the margonites though so unsure about it) and use them in the flameseeker prophecies.

As the War in Kryta was terminating, their plan backfired. With the winning side of the war, the Shining Blade were very adept in jungle travel and could have tracked the Mursaat to the golden city which may have forced them to move elsewhere (afterall, the White Mantle and Shining Blade have been at a cold war ever since); maybe deeper into the jungle with the white mantle and possibly show up in raids. XD

This.

Take a look at the shape of the buildings and whatnot from Tarir. Does this or does this not remind anyone of the White Mantle Emblem?

Hm I didn’t really think the Exalted would be Mursaat but I’m glad it got people talking about them lol. I’m certainly eager to see what Lazarus the Dire has planned, after all he did vow to make countless generations pay, and if he truly is the last of his kind.

I like this spin better, as it does call in to question Saul’s account of the mursaat.

The Mursaat, as well as the Seers, are too big of concepts to be unceremoniously shoehorndes in to a side plot in an expansion about a dragon. Seers and Mursaat are “mists level” Lore entities potentially dwarfing the miniscule “tyria level” entities that we face now in the form of the elder dragons.

Dropping hints in this expansion that the Mursaat purposely decived Saul would make sense, and would further solidfy them as much more existential threats, as we have always know that they have an understanding of the universe that dwarfs our own, and likely transcends tyria.

At this point I wouldn’t be suprised if the Human gods themselves were an exiled splinter faction of Mursaat, as we know that they came to tyra from their homes across the mists. It is entirely possible that the Mursaat/Seer conflict has much further reaching consequences and ramifications than one tiny world in the infinite number of worlds throughout the mists.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

..they have never been depicted as having ‘wings’ that are the trademark appearance of Mursaat..

I beg to differ.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

ANet did not trick you, their plan from the begging, and your vision were simply different…

So I guess their plan includes violating previously established lore.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

..does not mean the Mursaat have been forgotten and wont make an appearance.

We’ve been waiting nearly 10 years.

Swizzle.7982:

Whole thing is dumb. Golden cities, should have been mursaat.

Either this is some ruse to throw people off, or anet have really just thrown all the old lore out and are just making up nonsense now. If these things were created 300 years ago then why did glint never mention them, why did we never see them in gw1?

1) Mursaat structures weren’t golden, but reddish-purple. As we saw in GW1 itself.

Keep in mind that not everything from the manual made it into the game, as it was written while the game was still in development. It’s easy to pick multiple things from each GW1 manual that doesn’t match what’s said or seen in-game.

2) Why would Glint mention it? They hold no bearing on the Flameseeker Prophecies and the Titans, the one and only thing Glint talked about to us.

Swizzle.7982:

Also I’m pretty certain that 250 years ago the forgotten had already been, you know, forgotten by humans, surviving only in the crystal desert. But just 50 years before that they were turning humans into mursaat lookalikes? I mean, it wasn’t even humans who were custodians of glint back then, it was dwarves, so it makes even less sense.

The term Forgotten came from the centuries of not-knowing that began in 174 AE when the race left the civilized world. The term comes from before even Turai Ossa.

This does not mean that the race itself was forgotten. And as shown by Turai, and his statement that two groups of humans ventured into the Crystal Desert after his, humans knew of the Forgotten – even if they’ve Forgotten their name.

And it should be noted that we don’t know who the two groups of humans that attempted Ascension were.

Future.8641:

I don’t think it makes much sense at all for anything but Mursaat to be in the Golden City within the Maguuma Jungle.

GW1 lore, (for the devs who seem to have forgotten*) – Mursaat, Golden City, Maguuma Jungle. [end of part 1] [start of part 2] The Forgotten, Crystal Desert, Exalted (enchanted armours).

GW2 lore.. seems to have combined the two. This is why it makes no sense to have.. Mursaat-esque Exalted in a Golden City in the Maguuma Jungle.

The problem with your post is that the only link between mursaat and golden structures is a recounting of a starving, hallucinating person.

Furthermore, it should be noted that NOTHING says that Saul was wandering the Maguuma. The manual and all other recollections literally say “forest”. Not jungle, not Maguuma, not Maguuma Jungle. “Forest”. And there’s a lot of forests surrounding Kryta.

Also, your claim of “mursaat-esque Exalted” is kind of funny given that you say “Exalted (enchanted armors)” when the enchanted armors themselves were looking like mursaat armor. So that similarity actually makes perfect sense.

Jeff.4680:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

ANet did not trick you, their plan from the begging, and your vision were simply different…

So I guess their plan includes violating previously established lore.

Nothing about the Exalted actually “violates” previously established lore because nothing of this even touches previously established lore except by the name of Forgotten (which had worldly presence) and Glint (who was not imprisoned in the Crystal Desert and thus could go elsewhere when she pleased).

Just because you wanted them to be mursaat does not mean that them not being mursaat contradicts established lore.

Hell, them being mursaat would have contradicted established lore. Mursaat structures were not gold. Nor were they ever friendly or nice or good guys of any form – the entire race are depicted as powerful and selfish kittens who would gladly sacrifice the rest of the world to save their own behinds – and they have done that already. It would make no sense for the Exalted to be mursaat.

Besides, it was pretty kitten obvious from the end of Season 2 – what with the Forgotten Seal sealing the cave with a golden structure inside it – that the Exalted would be related to the Forgotten.

Jeff.4680:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

..does not mean the Mursaat have been forgotten and wont make an appearance.

We’ve been waiting nearly 10 years.

You missed Eye of the North and War in Kryta then. And that’s not ArenaNet’s fault.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1) Mursaat structures weren’t golden, but reddish-purple. As we saw in GW1 itself.

Keep in mind that not everything from the manual made it into the game, as it was written while the game was still in development. It’s easy to pick multiple things from each GW1 manual that doesn’t match what’s said or seen in-game.

We never saw the city which Saul actually discovered in GW1. And the only description of it is from the manual, which says alabaster and gold.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The term Forgotten came from the centuries of not-knowing that began in 174 AE when the race left the civilized world.

If the Forgotten left in 174 AE to the crystal desert what are they doing in the maguuma only 50 years before GW1? Even if people hadn’t forgotten them, I’m sure it would have been mentioned if they, or their exalted creations (if you want to argue that they created them in the desert) had marched across ascalon/shiverpeaks/kryta to get to the maguuma.

Swizzle.7982:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The term Forgotten came from the centuries of not-knowing that began in 174 AE when the race left the civilized world.

If the Forgotten left in 174 AE to the crystal desert what are they doing in the maguuma only 50 years before GW1? Even if people hadn’t forgotten them, I’m sure it would have been mentioned if they, or their exalted creations (if you want to argue that they created them in the desert) had marched across ascalon/shiverpeaks/kryta to get to the maguuma.

Don’t take dates thrown by ArenaNet literally when it’s stuff like “300 years ago”. They round, a lot. And when you have a hundreds place, expect that rounding to be off by at most 50 years.

But to answer your question: Nothing says that the Forgotten were kept in the Crystal Desert. They willingly went there, and they could willingly leave.

And honestly, you think the Forgotten can’t swim or build ships? They could easily sail from the Crystal Desert, past Orr, and to the uninhabited Tarnished Coast.

Or, hell, use one of their hundreds teleporters. We know they cover long distances, given that one goes from the Crystal Desert to the Desolation.

Do you honestly believe they must pass through civilized land? Probably not.

And who would bother paying attention when at the time of GW1, Kryta is still under civil war, Ascalon is in a constant war with the charr, asura are still settling in, etc. etc.

But let’s say they did pass through civilized land. Who’s to say that they didn’t get recognized and recorded? After all, it’s not like we know everything that’s recorded in Tyrian history. We never did. We never will until we go through all of Tyrian history in the series – and that’s just unlikely.

Walhalla.5473:

Was there something in the Lore that told us that the Golden City of the Mursaat Saul found was in Maguuma? Because as I know, he found them in a Forest and Maguuma is… a Jungle. Its more likely that he found them in the Woodland Cascades North of Kryta.

So we have Room for a Golden City in Maguuma without tying it to the Mursaat. Also the Exalted look extremly different to the Mursaat. I think we will deal with the Mursaat in the Raid ( since we have probably White Mantle Activity there ) or in the LS Sea<son 3

I have yet to see anything that tied the Mursaat to the Magumma Jungle nor anything that suggested that they had a city of gold. So yeah, you’re right to be a little confused.

To be honest, this is more plausible to where the Mursaat are.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Isles_of_Janthir
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Janthir

Konig Des Todes.2086:

snip..

Your argument is basically “don’t pay attention to anything Anet actually says”. I mean most lore is from manuals, short stories written by the writers or blog posts rather than the actual games, If we ignore those then the gw universe has pretty much no lore. I know you’ll keep trying to justify these things but it just seems silly, Anet could have made up ANYTHING, yet all they do is contradict themselves, retcon things or at the very least push the credulity of their lore to its limits.

Which is just a shame more than anything, because discovering the lore of the world is a huge reason why I play these games.

Ayrilana.1396:

I have yet to see anything that tied the Mursaat to the Magumma Jungle nor anything that suggested that they had a city of gold. So yeah, you’re right to be a little confused.

You’ve already seen the quote describing the city as alabaster and gold. And the only mention of the location of the hidden mursaat city says that it was two weeks ride from kryta, with no mention of swimming or sailing being part of that walk.

for some reason i always thought that the city that Saul found was somewhere in the isles of Janthir or at least Janthir Bay, north of what is now Divinity’s reach, considering the fact that the Eye of Janthir from prophecies was a mursaat artifact (at least in the sense that it was given to the white mantle by them) it wouldn’t be absolutely ridiculous to assume at least a probable relation.

Swizzle.7982:

You’ve already seen the quote describing the city as alabaster and gold. And the only mention of the location of the hidden mursaat city says that it was two days walk from kryta, with no mention of swimming or sailing being part of that walk.

White alabaster with gold filigree is not a city of gold…

A lot of ancient Greek columns were alabaster. Use that as a reference to what it is.

Ayrilana.1396:

White alabaster with gold filigree is not a city of gold…

A lot of ancient Greek columns were alabaster. Use that as a reference to what it is.

You keep using this argument, but gold filigree is usually used on small objects and decorative panels, a CITY made of alabaster and gold filigree could certainly be described as golden.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You don’t have to always suck up to whatever Arena Net does without any criticism, you know?

Swizzle.7982:

Ayrilana.1396:

White alabaster with gold filigree is not a city of gold…

A lot of ancient Greek columns were alabaster. Use that as a reference to what it is.

You keep using this argument, but gold filigree is usually used on small objects and decorative panels, a CITY made of alabaster and gold filigree could certainly be described as golden.

Again. Refer to the pictures I am attaching again for you. That’s not gold filigree. The Chapel of Naples would be an example of what you could expect as it has white alabaster walls and gold filigree.

Ayrilana.1396:

Swizzle.7982:

Ayrilana.1396:

White alabaster with gold filigree is not a city of gold…

A lot of ancient Greek columns were alabaster. Use that as a reference to what it is.

You keep using this argument, but gold filigree is usually used on small objects and decorative panels, a CITY made of alabaster and gold filigree could certainly be described as golden.

Again. Refer to the pictures I am attaching again for you. That’s not gold filigree. The Chapel of Naples would be an example of what you could expect as it has white alabaster walls and gold filigree.

I literally have no idea what you’re arguing now. The exalted city isnt a mursaat city. Ok? We know that.

The issue is that now there are TWO golden (or GOLDEN FILIGREE COVERED) cities in or very close to the maguuma each housing two races which look extremely similar, only one of which has ever been mentioned previously.

Swizzle.7982:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swizzle.7982:

Ayrilana.1396:

White alabaster with gold filigree is not a city of gold…

A lot of ancient Greek columns were alabaster. Use that as a reference to what it is.

You keep using this argument, but gold filigree is usually used on small objects and decorative panels, a CITY made of alabaster and gold filigree could certainly be described as golden.

Again. Refer to the pictures I am attaching again for you. That’s not gold filigree. The Chapel of Naples would be an example of what you could expect as it has white alabaster walls and gold filigree.

I literally have no idea what you’re arguing now. The exalted city isnt a mursaat city. Ok? We know that.

The issue is that now there are TWO golden (or GOLDEN FILIGREE COVERED) cities in or very close to the maguuma each housing two races which look extremely similar, only one of which has ever been mentioned previously.

People are arguing that the city the Exalted were in was the golden city of the Musaat. There is ZERO evidence that the Mursaat are in the Maguuma jungle and ZERO evidence of another golden city.

Jeff.4680:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You don’t have to always suck up to whatever Arena Net does without any criticism, you know?

You should probably look at people’s post history before insulting them. Konig has a huge post on this very forum complaining about lore inconsistencies between Modremoth and the Sylvari and is very vocal about his dislike for Scarlet.

Ayrilana.1396:

People are arguing that the city the Exalted were in was the golden city of the Musaat.

I haven’t seen anyone argue that. Most people are just annoyed that a golden city full of mursaat like creatures (just like the descriptions of golden mursaat cities) turned out to be just a golden city full of creatures that look like mursaat but are just a whole new race with no existing backstory or lore but who were HERE THE WHOLE TIME! As if that’s something that makes any sense.

At least when they did it with the asura and the norn in gw1 they had a good reason, as they lived in places we hadn’t visited. 50 (or there abouts depending on how inaccurate anet are) years after the construction of a golden exalted city in the maguuma we literally visited the maguuma and we saw no cities. At least the mursaat had the excuse of being Unseen. But I guess this giant exalted city was behind a bush the whole time or something, right?

the Mursaat city isn’t even stated to be golden or gold and alabaster
section of the gw1 manuscripts word for word

“Alone, broke, and lost, Saul wandered through a dense forest for several days, surviving on only roots and berries. On the fourth day, delirious with hunger, Saul emerged from the trees to see what he thought was a hallucination—a city of massive towers reaching into the heavens. The architecture was astounding, and the creatures who lived here were unlike any he had ever seen. Walking down into their city, Saul got a closer look at the denizens of this place. They were tall and thin with strange wing-like appendages that waved about in the slightest breeze. When they walked, their feet seemed not to touch the ground, and when they spoke, it was the most melodious sound he had ever heard. Surely these creatures were the stuff of divinity. Hungry and exhausted, his clothes ragged and dirty, Saul dropped to his knees and touched his forehead to the ground. He had found his gods, and they in turn had found their most devoted disciple.”

TheReaperTheFourthHorsemen.7894:

the Mursaat city isn’t even stated to be golden or gold and alabaster

“The local authorities blindfolded him and rode him out two full weeks before leaving him to fend for himself. Alone, penniless, and lost, Saul wandered through a dense forest for three full days. On the fourth day, Saul emerged from among the trees to see what he thought was a hallucination—a city of massive towers reaching into the heavens. It was a sight to behold, alabaster and golden filigree. This was a place of purity, a place where a man such as Saul could begin anew.”

http://64.25.35.116/gameplay/exploring/tyria/story/lore-10-protectorsofkryta1.php

my bad never read that before
still isn’t stated to be made of gold or golden more along line of being white with golden trimming similar to the colors of the white mantle and still stated to be in a dense forest not the maguuma jungle

Guys. Filigree isn’t gold plating.

It’s intricate patternwork, usually used as trim.

The exalted cities look nothing like “alabaster and gold filigree”

They look like (magical) gold paint.

Swizzle.7982:

Ayrilana.1396:

People are arguing that the city the Exalted were in was the golden city of the Musaat.

I haven’t seen anyone argue that. Most people are just annoyed that a golden city full of mursaat like creatures (just like the descriptions of golden mursaat cities) turned out to be just a golden city full of creatures that look like mursaat but are just a whole new race with no existing backstory or lore but who were HERE THE WHOLE TIME! As if that’s something that makes any sense.

At least when they did it with the asura and the norn in gw1 they had a good reason, as they lived in places we hadn’t visited. 50 (or there abouts depending on how inaccurate anet are) years after the construction of a golden exalted city in the maguuma we literally visited the maguuma and we saw no cities. At least the mursaat had the excuse of being Unseen. But I guess this giant exalted city was behind a bush the whole time or something, right?

Where were these guys in the first game? How did no one notice them? Or the Mursaat not sense them? Didn’t we go through this region in GW1?

UGH. It’s so long since I played through gw1 I can’t remember all that stuff.

MashMash.1645:

Swizzle.7982:

Ayrilana.1396:

People are arguing that the city the Exalted were in was the golden city of the Musaat.

I haven’t seen anyone argue that. Most people are just annoyed that a golden city full of mursaat like creatures (just like the descriptions of golden mursaat cities) turned out to be just a golden city full of creatures that look like mursaat but are just a whole new race with no existing backstory or lore but who were HERE THE WHOLE TIME! As if that’s something that makes any sense.

At least when they did it with the asura and the norn in gw1 they had a good reason, as they lived in places we hadn’t visited. 50 (or there abouts depending on how inaccurate anet are) years after the construction of a golden exalted city in the maguuma we literally visited the maguuma and we saw no cities. At least the mursaat had the excuse of being Unseen. But I guess this giant exalted city was behind a bush the whole time or something, right?

Where were these guys in the first game? How did no one notice them? Or the Mursaat not sense them? Didn’t we go through this region in GW1?

UGH. It’s so long since I played through gw1 I can’t remember all that stuff.

We went through parts of this region in GW1. The magumma maps made up roughly 3/4 of the actual surface area of the jungle, but the maps also didn’t include any underground or canopy layers.

Also keep in mind that, from what we’ve seen, a lot of land has been uprootd/moved around by mordy’s rise. If the city was originally underground, it wouldn’t be suprising we never encountered it in GW1, even if mordy’s rise has now exposed it to the surface.

Swizzle.7982:

Ayrilana.1396:

People are arguing that the city the Exalted were in was the golden city of the Musaat.

I haven’t seen anyone argue that.

Swizzle.7982:

The Golden city which was supposed to be somewhere in or near the maguuma was a Mursaat city. The city where Saul first met the Mursaat.

Swizzle.7982:

Well the mursaat city was alabaster and golden filigree, a city covered in golden filigree could certainly be described as golden. What made people think it was mursaat was that there was A CITY in the maguuma.

There’s also WP who speculated that has well, based on the information at the time, which then got more people believing it to be so.

Swizzle.7982:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

snip..

Your argument is basically “don’t pay attention to anything Anet actually says”.

…No it isn’t. The only thing I said not to pay exact attention to is rounded dates.

If you did pay attention to anything Anet actually says, you would know that they love to round practically everything.

Swizzle.7982:

I mean most lore is from manuals, short stories written by the writers or blog posts rather than the actual games, If we ignore those then the gw universe has pretty much no lore.

This couldn’t be more wrong. Most lore actually comes from the games. It’s just that you have to look, read, and pay attention. Not something most folks do, I know, but that’s the cold hard truth.

Swizzle.7982:

I know you’ll keep trying to justify these things

I’m not trying to justify anything, really. I’m merely stating your attempts to de-justify is a poor argument.

ArenaNet has been more full of holes and contradictions in their story the past two years than any individual group I’ve known beyond webcomics that intentionally don’t care for their story because they’re there for jokes, not plot.

Swizzle.7982:

You’ve already seen the quote describing the city as alabaster and gold. And the only mention of the location of the hidden mursaat city says that it was two weeks ride from kryta, with no mention of swimming or sailing being part of that walk.

Show me where in this golden city of Tarir where alabaster lies.

And it’s gold filigree, not gold everything.

Two weeks ride… but riding in what? Perhaps… riding a boat?

And even if it means solely a cart or wagon, you do realize that there is a forest – the term used to describe where Saul was exiled to – north of Kryta, right? It’s called Woodland Cascades, and while not named was there in Prophecies.

Jeff.4680:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You don’t have to always suck up to whatever Arena Net does without any criticism, you know?

You clearly don’t know me. You might want to look up people’s actual views on things before insulting them.

Especially as of late, I’ve been criticizing them left and right. The thing that differentiates this thread from what I do is that I cite and I explain, I give analytical thought, comparisons, and reasons for why things are bad. Not just “wtf golden beings aren’t mursaat no! wtf anetkitten” Which sadly perfectly describes every post I’ve seen complaining about this. With varying degrees of harshness.

Swizzle.7982:

You keep using this argument, but gold filigree is usually used on small objects and decorative panels, a CITY made of alabaster and gold filigree could certainly be described as golden.

Sure.

But Tarir isn’t described as golden. It’s shown as golden.

The city Saul stumbled upon, however, is described as alabastar and golden filigree.

Swizzle.7982:

The issue is that now there are TWO golden (or GOLDEN FILIGREE COVERED) cities in or very close to the maguuma each housing two races which look extremely similar, only one of which has ever been mentioned previously.

Eh. Three issues:

1) Mursaat and Exalted don’t really look similar. One is flesh and blood and has been more or less extinct for ~250 years, the other is pure energy and has been hibernating for ~300 years.

2) Alabastar and golden filigree is not a golden city.

3) Nothing actually states where Saul found that city. It’s only “in a forest”. And that’s…. very vague. To quote:

“Alone, broke, and lost, Saul wandered through a dense forest for several days, surviving on only roots and berries. On the fourth day, delirious with hunger, Saul emerged from the trees to see what he thought was a hallucination—a city of massive towers reaching into the heavens. The architecture was astounding, and the creatures who lived here were unlike any he had ever seen. Walking down into their city, Saul got a closer look at the denizens of this place. They were tall and thin with strange wing-like appendages that waved about in the slightest breeze. When they walked, their feet seemed not to touch the ground, and when they spoke, it was the most melodious sound he had ever heard. Surely these creatures were the stuff of divinity. Hungry and exhausted, his clothes ragged and dirty, Saul dropped to his knees and touched his forehead to the ground. He had found his gods, and they in turn had found their most devoted disciple.”

Alt version (that you quoted):
“The local authorities blindfolded him and rode him out two full weeks before leaving him to fend for himself. Alone, penniless, and lost, Saul wandered through a dense forest for three full days. On the fourth day, Saul emerged from among the trees to see what he thought was a hallucination—a city of massive towers reaching into the heavens. It was a sight to behold, alabaster and golden filigree. This was a place of purity, a place where a man such as Saul could begin anew.”

There’s more than one “dense forest” near Kryta.

Maybe the filigree grew or got otherwise filled in? So Saul saw filigree but the walls are fully gold clad now?

Donari.5237:

Maybe the filigree grew or got otherwise filled in? So Saul saw filigree but the walls are fully gold clad now?

Give me some of that filigree! Of course I don’t know if I want to wait 250-300 years for the results.

are they evil or good?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Snip..

Still doesn’t explain how a city in the maguuma was kept hidden, and not through one game but two, from the white mantle and shining blade, and the asura (if it was hidden underground, which doesn’t seem likely from the pictures).

It also doesn’t explain why glint would use humans, when her custodians at that time would have been dwarves. Or why the master of peace has been flying around for the last few years with her legacy instead of dropping it off at the city actually designed to protect it.

The blog also makes it sound like the Exalted were surprised that Mordremoth happened to have woken up near them, surely glint would have known that Mordremoth was there having been one of the beings that worked to put him back to sleep.

None of this makes any sense lore wise, other than name dropping glint and the forgotten it has nothing to do with any lore that has been established thus far, and instead you have to find ways to weasel it in.

What if Glint and the Forgotten were the ones built the city to flight the elder dragons. However, the Mursaat occupied the city for themselves to hidden from the threat. That why Glint wrote the flameseeker prophecies so that the chosen eliminated the Mursaat and the Forgotten could recover the city.

Swizzle.7982:

Still doesn’t explain how a city in the maguuma was kept hidden, and not through one game but two, from the white mantle and shining blade, and the asura (if it was hidden underground, which doesn’t seem likely from the pictures).

As I said in the other thread, it depends on where in the jungle it was.

The Shining Blade, asura, etc. didn’t go as deep as we players did in GW1, and by the indication of the guild hall, the Exalted went deeper. The guild hall – an abandoned outpost – is placed on the edge of The Falls’ GW1 map per That_Shaman’s historical map. Indicating that Tarir is deeper in than the deepest we – or anyone who returned to civilization – went.

Furthermore, if the 300 rounding is meant to be post-Prophecies, then all three presences of Shining Blade, White Mantle, and asura would have been gone – leaving no one but the druids. And the druids could very well be the “missing allies” mentioned in the article.

Swizzle.7982:

It also doesn’t explain why glint would use humans, when her custodians at that time would have been dwarves.

She’s a prophet and the dwarves had a prophecy that foretold the doom of their race.

It’s not hard to guess the reason why. Especially if the rounded number of years isn’t meant to indicate “before GW1’s events”.

Swizzle.7982:

Or why the master of peace has been flying around for the last few years with her legacy instead of dropping it off at the city actually designed to protect it.

The article explains this. The egg was in stasis and was only to be given to the Exalted when it became active; the reason is because the Exalted were in hibernation until said egg came out of stasis.

It’s also unknown when the Master of Peace got the egg – for all we know, he got the egg between when we meet them during the Bazaar of the Four Winds and the Festival of the Four Winds. After all, between those two releases they gain a new aircraft which has an interesting glow to it – later to be heavily hinted to be the aircraft carrying the egg.

Swizzle.7982:

The blog also makes it sound like the Exalted were surprised that Mordremoth happened to have woken up near them, surely glint would have known that Mordremoth was there having been one of the beings that worked to put him back to sleep.

Actually, the article says that the Exalted were surprised that Mordremoth woke already. They were clearly expecting the egg to become active before Mordremoth – and Scarlet screwed that up for them.

Swizzle.7982:

None of this makes any sense lore wise, other than name dropping glint and the forgotten it has nothing to do with any lore that has been established thus far, and instead you have to find ways to weasel it in.

Not really weaseling when the article explains a third of it, a third of it is explained by the city’s location, and the last third is explained by presuming “300 years ago” doesn’t mean “before GW1”.

Swizzle.7982:

Still doesn’t explain how a city in the maguuma was kept hidden, and not through one game but two, from the white mantle and shining blade, and the asura (if it was hidden underground, which doesn’t seem likely from the pictures).

It also doesn’t explain why glint would use humans, when her custodians at that time would have been dwarves. Or why the master of peace has been flying around for the last few years with her legacy instead of dropping it off at the city actually designed to protect it.

The blog also makes it sound like the Exalted were surprised that Mordremoth happened to have woken up near them, surely glint would have known that Mordremoth was there having been one of the beings that worked to put him back to sleep.

None of this makes any sense lore wise, other than name dropping glint and the forgotten it has nothing to do with any lore that has been established thus far, and instead you have to find ways to weasel it in.

Already pointed out the hidden city point in another thread.

Dwarves were only going to be around for a limited time and it’s entirely possible Glint knew this. Why would she use dwarves knowing they would eventually turn to stone and go underground when Primordus began to rise?

As for why the Master of Peace didn’t deliver the egg immediately the blogpost makes it rather clear he wasn’t suppose to. It specifically says that the Exalted were dormant until the egg began to stir. Then the Master of Peace was to deliver it. Makes sense to me. While the egg is dormant keep it on a highly mobile magical airship high above the sky and out of the reach of dragons, then once it’s ready to hatch move it to the highly magical city where the dragon baby can feed and be nurtured by the Exalted.

The blog is also rather clear that the Exalted are surprised that Mordremoth woke up as soon as he did. He wasn’t suppose to wake up yet. Scarlet woke him up early by tapping into the ley line under Lion’s Arch. For all we know it could’ve been another hundred years before Modremoth was actually suppose to wake up, and by then Glint’s egg could have hatched, consumed all that tasty magic the Exalted had been storing for it, and possibly even been ready to fight Modremoth and eat him depending on how long dragons take to mature.

I’m not even trying to weasel it in. It just all makes perfect sense naturally to anyone who read the blog and are familiar with past lore.