Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

1) False statement: The original GW2 game is needed to play the expansion GW2:HoT

Except that this is not a false statement. The core game is required in order to able to play HoT.

The fact that they include the core the game in the expansion pack further supports that it is a true statement.

What you’re trying to prove is that Anet misled you into needing to purchase the core game, which yes could be implied from that statement. However, that is not what the statement says, and no where did they ever claim that they would not include the base game in the purchasable package (then, or now).

Legalese….so (not) fun.

All a lawyer would need to do is point to ANet’s only prior sale of an expansion (Eye of the North). Players were required to own one of the GW campaigns to access EotN content. EotN was later bundled with other campaigns in package deals, but was not so bundled when first offered. That lawyer could also then point to other providers in the same industry who require a base game to access an expansion, and also do not provide a bundle on the first offering of that expansion. At this point, multiple precedents would support the contention that consumers had every right to expect that purchase of the game was necessary, not that the game was necessary.

Once that was established, your defense point would be reduced to semantics and dismissed as a consideration in determining whether consumers were misled. This would not prove intent to deceive. That could not be proved without more information than I’ve seen. However, I don’t believe that would be necessary to establish that ANet is in the wrong.

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

Still, when it comes to that specific statement, its going to boil down to whether or not they flat out lied. Which they didn’t. The core game is required to play the expansion.

None of the versions sold needs a GW2 base game.

To say: “Yes you need the base game but it is included in ALL expansion offers” is just semantics.

Fact is, for whatever version of the expansion you buy, you do not need GW2. Therefore the only true and valid answer is: No, you do not need the base game of GW2.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

Except this is not about the genre but about the business plan. It’s much fairer to compare the game to GW1 than another MMO because of the B2P approach which other MMOs don’t use. They use F2P or box + subs or combinations thereof. Totally different approach and in other MMOs I’ve played they didn’t do it this way. Some MMOs give expansion free to subs, others give different package deals for just the expansion or a combo price for core + expansion.

What I’ve not experienced is an MMO that comes out with it’s first expansion and just before it comes out suddenly decides to thrown in the core game free with it. But maybe you have an example of that.

It would’ve been wiser to do this differently. Now a lot of people are upset. More than needed really.

Gehenna.3625:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

Except this is not about the genre but about the business plan. It’s much fairer to compare the game to GW1 than another MMO because of the B2P approach which other MMOs don’t use. They use F2P or box + subs or combinations thereof. Totally different approach and in other MMOs I’ve played they didn’t do it this way. Some MMOs give expansion free to subs, others give different package deals for just the expansion or a combo price for core + expansion.

What I’ve not experienced is an MMO that comes out with it’s first expansion and just before it comes out suddenly decides to thrown in the core game free with it. But maybe you have an example of that.

It would’ve been wiser to do this differently. Now a lot of people are upset. More than needed really.

or they can charge you $150 for a beta access to a game that is free to play with pay to win shop like Archeage did

or ESO or FF14

GW2 HoT have already more to offer than these titles above

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

The point, “GW is not an MMO.” is irrelevant. Both GW and GW2 are computer games with similar business models. When looking at whether the statement about requiring the core game to access HoT is examined, that one game has more transient instances and the other has more persistent instances would not be a consideration. Should this incident result in litigation (unlikely), and should an ANet attorney try to hang a defense on that, the plaintiff’s attorney would rightfully blow them out of the water.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Still, when it comes to that specific statement, its going to boil down to whether or not they flat out lied. Which they didn’t. The core game is required to play the expansion.

The burden of proof does not require that there is intent to deceive, only that there is a statement which is false or is implicitly false, and that consumers were deceived and took action that cost them money. Given that a reasonable consumer would expect, based on precedent, that a separate purchase of GW2 (purchase not possession) would be required, I have no trouble believing that the semantic “defense” would be dismissed.

Gehenna.3625:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

Except this is not about the genre but about the business plan. It’s much fairer to compare the game to GW1 than another MMO because of the B2P approach which other MMOs don’t use. They use F2P or box + subs or combinations thereof. Totally different approach and in other MMOs I’ve played they didn’t do it this way. Some MMOs give expansion free to subs, others give different package deals for just the expansion or a combo price for core + expansion.

What I’ve not experienced is an MMO that comes out with it’s first expansion and just before it comes out suddenly decides to thrown in the core game free with it. But maybe you have an example of that.

It would’ve been wiser to do this differently. Now a lot of people are upset. More than needed really.

Again, this is not the first company to do this type of promotion (and thats what it is, a promotion). Other companies (not just MMOs) have done the exact same type of thing and it was perfectly fine. So why is it suddenly an issue when Anet does it?

The issue is that you’re all using the FAQ and calling false advertising. Stating they lied to us when no such action has occured. The question asks if the core game is required to play the expansion. It is answered, yes, it is required. No where do we ask if we are required to purchase it and given an the answer of yes. No where do they commit one way or the other in regards to us needing to buy or not buy the game, and that is done intentionally.

saurus.8290:

or they can charge you $150 for a beta access to a game that is free to play with pay to win shop like Archeage did

or ESO or FF14

GW2 HoT have already more to offer than these titles above

And this is exactly why you can’t compare GW2 to other MMOs. In fact it doesn’t even matter what other games do really. What matters is that just before the release of an expansion the core game goes on a massive sale only to let people find out they could’ve gotten it for free and the silent adaptation of th FAQ is dodgy at best.

Also you may like GW2, but to say that HoT already has more to offer than ESO or FF14 is objectively just a ridiculous statement.

To be clear I do not like either of those games so I am in no way biased towards them but for whatever reason you are not able to look at this even remotely objectively.

And it’s also not the point. As I said, it’s just the way they handled this whole thing. You can go to the people who bought GW2 recently via other suppliers who cannot get a refund and explain to them why Anet didn’t do anything remotely unfortunate. You just can’t unless you are a total white knight about it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gehenna.3625:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

Except this is not about the genre but about the business plan. It’s much fairer to compare the game to GW1 than another MMO because of the B2P approach which other MMOs don’t use. They use F2P or box + subs or combinations thereof. Totally different approach and in other MMOs I’ve played they didn’t do it this way. Some MMOs give expansion free to subs, others give different package deals for just the expansion or a combo price for core + expansion.

What I’ve not experienced is an MMO that comes out with it’s first expansion and just before it comes out suddenly decides to thrown in the core game free with it. But maybe you have an example of that.

It would’ve been wiser to do this differently. Now a lot of people are upset. More than needed really.

Again, this is not the first company to do this type of promotion (and thats what it is, a promotion). Other companies (not just MMOs) have done the exact same type of thing and it was perfectly fine. So why is it suddenly an issue when Anet does it?

The issue is that you’re all using the FAQ and calling false advertising. Stating they lied to us when no such action has occured. The question asks if the core game is required to play the expansion. It is answered, yes, it is required. No where do we ask if we are required to purchase it and given an the answer of yes. No where do they commit one way or the other in regards to us needing to buy or not buy the game, and that is done intentionally.

As I explained it’s not exactly the same what Anet does here.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The burden of proof does not require that there is intent to deceive, only that there is a statement which is false or is implicitly false, and that consumers were deceived and took action that cost them money. Given that a reasonable consumer would expect, based on precedent, that a separate purchase of GW2 (purchase not possession) would be required, I have no trouble believing that the semantic “defense” would be dismissed.

Except that the statement is blatantly true. The question asked is does the expansion require the core game to be able to play it. The answer is definitely yes, and that’s what’s being answered. It cannot even be “implied” as false. All that can be implied is that purchase of the game is necessary, but that is not the question at hand. Its a technicality in Anet’s favor.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gehenna.3625:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

Except this is not about the genre but about the business plan. It’s much fairer to compare the game to GW1 than another MMO because of the B2P approach which other MMOs don’t use. They use F2P or box + subs or combinations thereof. Totally different approach and in other MMOs I’ve played they didn’t do it this way. Some MMOs give expansion free to subs, others give different package deals for just the expansion or a combo price for core + expansion.

What I’ve not experienced is an MMO that comes out with it’s first expansion and just before it comes out suddenly decides to thrown in the core game free with it. But maybe you have an example of that.

It would’ve been wiser to do this differently. Now a lot of people are upset. More than needed really.

Again, this is not the first company to do this type of promotion (and thats what it is, a promotion). Other companies (not just MMOs) have done the exact same type of thing and it was perfectly fine. So why is it suddenly an issue when Anet does it?

The issue is that you’re all using the FAQ and calling false advertising. Stating they lied to us when no such action has occured. The question asks if the core game is required to play the expansion. It is answered, yes, it is required. No where do we ask if we are required to purchase it and given an the answer of yes. No where do they commit one way or the other in regards to us needing to buy or not buy the game, and that is done intentionally.

Nope.

There are three versions of the expansion offered by ANet and other official retailers offer one version (the same as the $50 version of ANet).

All version will work on purchase without a GW2 core game. There is no other option, no other expansion version.

Fact: If you buy any version of the so called expansion, you do not need the GW2 core game. Therefore the only answer to the question in the FAQ actually is: No, whatever you buy, as long as there is Heart of Thorns written on it, you do not need anything else to play it.

ANet is using semantics to make it look like Heart of Thorns is an expansion, but in fact, it is a GW2 2.0.

Sadrien.3470:

Vayne.8563:

I think the OP needs to go get a law degree before making claims like this. This would never go to court. Anet is offering refunds to people, and a FAQ for an unreleased game wouldn’t be considered advertising anyway.

This is the court of public opinion not a law court. And I doubt you are a lawyer, so please don’t speak if you have equal background to the op as if he has inferior education on this matter to you. Anyone who was not given a refund and can offer significant reason could most likely take this to a court of law, but a 10$ difference in price is not worth 10s of thousands of dollars. Look at what happened to mcDonalds though. A consumer spilled their coffee on themselves and won a court case against McDonalds, anything can get into a court of law by that logic.

Vayne is our shill insider at Anet. Dont attack him like that please. He is our inside into the world of Anet….

Kaiyanwan.8521:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gehenna.3625:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

Except this is not about the genre but about the business plan. It’s much fairer to compare the game to GW1 than another MMO because of the B2P approach which other MMOs don’t use. They use F2P or box + subs or combinations thereof. Totally different approach and in other MMOs I’ve played they didn’t do it this way. Some MMOs give expansion free to subs, others give different package deals for just the expansion or a combo price for core + expansion.

What I’ve not experienced is an MMO that comes out with it’s first expansion and just before it comes out suddenly decides to thrown in the core game free with it. But maybe you have an example of that.

It would’ve been wiser to do this differently. Now a lot of people are upset. More than needed really.

Again, this is not the first company to do this type of promotion (and thats what it is, a promotion). Other companies (not just MMOs) have done the exact same type of thing and it was perfectly fine. So why is it suddenly an issue when Anet does it?

The issue is that you’re all using the FAQ and calling false advertising. Stating they lied to us when no such action has occured. The question asks if the core game is required to play the expansion. It is answered, yes, it is required. No where do we ask if we are required to purchase it and given an the answer of yes. No where do they commit one way or the other in regards to us needing to buy or not buy the game, and that is done intentionally.

Nope.

There are three versions of the expansion offered by ANet and other official retailers offer one version (the same as the $50 version of ANet).

All version will work on purchase without a GW2 core game. There is no other option, no other expansion version.

Fact: If you buy any version of the so called expansion, you do not need the GW2 core game. Therefore the only answer to the question in the FAQ actually is: No, whatever you buy, as long as there is Heart of Thorns written on it, you do not need anything else to play it.

ANet is using semantics to make it look like Heart of Thorns is an expansion, but in fact, it is a GW2 2.0.

The problem with your “fact” is that HoT is only playable for new plays if that core game is included. If they opt to unbundle it after pre-purchase is over (unlikely, but possible) HoT would indeed not be playable unless you also purchased the core game. It does not change the fact that the core game is necessary in order to play. It being bundled with it is beside the point.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gehenna.3625:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

Except this is not about the genre but about the business plan. It’s much fairer to compare the game to GW1 than another MMO because of the B2P approach which other MMOs don’t use. They use F2P or box + subs or combinations thereof. Totally different approach and in other MMOs I’ve played they didn’t do it this way. Some MMOs give expansion free to subs, others give different package deals for just the expansion or a combo price for core + expansion.

What I’ve not experienced is an MMO that comes out with it’s first expansion and just before it comes out suddenly decides to thrown in the core game free with it. But maybe you have an example of that.

It would’ve been wiser to do this differently. Now a lot of people are upset. More than needed really.

Again, this is not the first company to do this type of promotion (and thats what it is, a promotion). Other companies (not just MMOs) have done the exact same type of thing and it was perfectly fine. So why is it suddenly an issue when Anet does it?

The issue is that you’re all using the FAQ and calling false advertising. Stating they lied to us when no such action has occured. The question asks if the core game is required to play the expansion. It is answered, yes, it is required. No where do we ask if we are required to purchase it and given an the answer of yes. No where do they commit one way or the other in regards to us needing to buy or not buy the game, and that is done intentionally.

Nope.

There are three versions of the expansion offered by ANet and other official retailers offer one version (the same as the $50 version of ANet).

All version will work on purchase without a GW2 core game. There is no other option, no other expansion version.

Fact: If you buy any version of the so called expansion, you do not need the GW2 core game. Therefore the only answer to the question in the FAQ actually is: No, whatever you buy, as long as there is Heart of Thorns written on it, you do not need anything else to play it.

ANet is using semantics to make it look like Heart of Thorns is an expansion, but in fact, it is a GW2 2.0.

The problem with your “fact” is that HoT is only playable for new plays if that core game is included. If they opt to unbundle it after pre-purchase is over (unlikely, but possible) HoT would indeed not be playable unless you also purchased the core game. It does not change the fact that the core game is necessary in order to play. It being bundled with it is beside the point.

But there won’t.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

There is no boxed Ultimate Edition version of the game and no other editions of the game being offered beyond what you see on buy.guildwars2.com.

We have an FAQ that covers this and other questions you may have: https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ

How should they opt out of this, selling the expansion as expansion later for less coin? The forums would burn. Sell it without core game for the same price? They would never get new players again.

So no, things are the way they are.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gehenna.3625:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The problem there is that, as many have pointed out time and again, GW1 is not a MMO. It can not be used as a standard by which we judge GW2, which is a MMO. On the other hand other MMO companies have done similar promotions, which does set precedent.

Except this is not about the genre but about the business plan. It’s much fairer to compare the game to GW1 than another MMO because of the B2P approach which other MMOs don’t use. They use F2P or box + subs or combinations thereof. Totally different approach and in other MMOs I’ve played they didn’t do it this way. Some MMOs give expansion free to subs, others give different package deals for just the expansion or a combo price for core + expansion.

What I’ve not experienced is an MMO that comes out with it’s first expansion and just before it comes out suddenly decides to thrown in the core game free with it. But maybe you have an example of that.

It would’ve been wiser to do this differently. Now a lot of people are upset. More than needed really.

Again, this is not the first company to do this type of promotion (and thats what it is, a promotion). Other companies (not just MMOs) have done the exact same type of thing and it was perfectly fine. So why is it suddenly an issue when Anet does it?

The issue is that you’re all using the FAQ and calling false advertising. Stating they lied to us when no such action has occured. The question asks if the core game is required to play the expansion. It is answered, yes, it is required. No where do we ask if we are required to purchase it and given an the answer of yes. No where do they commit one way or the other in regards to us needing to buy or not buy the game, and that is done intentionally.

Nope.

There are three versions of the expansion offered by ANet and other official retailers offer one version (the same as the $50 version of ANet).

All version will work on purchase without a GW2 core game. There is no other option, no other expansion version.

Fact: If you buy any version of the so called expansion, you do not need the GW2 core game. Therefore the only answer to the question in the FAQ actually is: No, whatever you buy, as long as there is Heart of Thorns written on it, you do not need anything else to play it.

ANet is using semantics to make it look like Heart of Thorns is an expansion, but in fact, it is a GW2 2.0.

The problem with your “fact” is that HoT is only playable for new plays if that core game is included. If they opt to unbundle it after pre-purchase is over (unlikely, but possible) HoT would indeed not be playable unless you also purchased the core game. It does not change the fact that the core game is necessary in order to play. It being bundled with it is beside the point.

But there won’t.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

There is no boxed Ultimate Edition version of the game and no other editions of the game being offered beyond what you see on buy.guildwars2.com.

We have an FAQ that covers this and other questions you may have: https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ

How should they opt out of this, selling the expansion as expansion later for less coin? The forums would burn. Sell it without core game for the same price? They would never get new players again.

So no, things are the way they are.

Most likely, no they won’t unbundle it. Their basic idea to reduce the paywall to help attract new players is actually a decent one. However, it has been stated that the expansion is 50$, the addition of the core game is simply a bonus for new players. It is “free.” Even though people don’t see it that way.

So theoretically, they could sell just the expansion for 50$ after it launches, removing the core from the bundle and stating it was only a pre-purchase option. Would people kitten? Sure, people kitten about everything.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The burden of proof does not require that there is intent to deceive, only that there is a statement which is false or is implicitly false, and that consumers were deceived and took action that cost them money. Given that a reasonable consumer would expect, based on precedent, that a separate purchase of GW2 (purchase not possession) would be required, I have no trouble believing that the semantic “defense” would be dismissed.

Except that the statement is blatantly true. The question asked is does the expansion require the core game to be able to play it. The answer is definitely yes, and that’s what’s being answered. It cannot even be “implied” as false. All that can be implied is that purchase of the game is necessary, but that is not the question at hand. Its a technicality in Anet’s favor.

That may be the question that you’re asking. I’m not asking a question, nor is anyone else that I can see. I’m making a statement.

The prevailing facts at the time of the HoT announcement were the statement that having the core game would be required and that the core game could not at that time be acquired without payment. Any reasonable person would infer that in order to access HoT, they needed to purchase core GW2. In fact, there was no reasonable conclusion possible other than that one would have to purchase or have already purchased GW2 to access HoT.

ANet did nothing to change that perception until last week, whether they knew they were bundling in January or made that decision last Monday. Any consumer who purchased GW2 based on that information has been damaged unless they did not buy specifically to access HoT. Thus, the original statement deceived those consumers into acting in a fashion that after the fact was not in their best interests.

The semantics of, “Well it’s still required, we’re just bundling it in.” would not change the above facts. A better defense would be for Anet to say, “We changed our minds last Monday and decided to bundle at the last minute.” At that point, they would be establishing that the original statement was both true and implicitly true at the time they made it, and remained that way until just before the HoT price release. None of that eliminates the fact that consumers who bought accounts since 1/24/2015 explicitly because of HoT are going to be financially damaged by the bundling decision, or that if Anet chooses not to redress those losses, they will be held to be morally guilty by consumers.

In my opinion, the possibility of false advertising is/was the biggest valid reason for public outcry. More than likely the core game is included in the $50 price tag and claiming it’s a bonus is simply for PR. It sounds nice and covers the argument that people don’t want to pay for what they already got. Trouble is it opened a slew of other arguments and didn’t counter the complaints it was supposed to (since most people likely thought it was included in the price anyways).

Anyhow, reason I think of possible deception as the only valid argument: People who say they’d buy it if it had more aren’t really arguing. People that are demanding it has more suffer an entitlement problem (IMO). People who honestly think there isn’t enough content can just wait for the price to fall a bit.

On the other hand, a company needs to avoid even the appearance of shady practices. It’s not that they deserve punishment just for a bad appearance and I’m not advocating “everyone boycotting the evil company.” It’s simply a natural consequence. More than likely the FAQ change and people hurt by thinking they needed to buy the core first to play HoT were unintended consequences. If they do their best to fix the mistakes, then great. If not, then there’s a problem.

IndigoSundown.5419:

All games eventually reach a point where they are phased out. If a retailer has any left, he throws it in the bargain bin to get rid of it. It may very well be that ANet was considering making the core game F2P to attract new players who might then spend in the store. I believe they chose not to because of RMT players being able to get free accounts and maybe also because some vets would make numerous accounts for laurel farming of T6 mats.

GW2 was selling for $10 right after the HoT announcement. That’s an 83% discount from the initial sale price of $59.99. My sympathies are with those who’ve bought the game since the HoT announcement based on thinking they’d need to to progress in the game. I believe that it would be fair for ANet to do something to redress this issue beyond just refunding sales in the last 30 days. Iirc, the refund policy at launch was six months, not one.

I wonder why the didn’t just left the game at a 10$ price, if the purpose of the pre-order is to have a low barrier of entry, that would be huge.
More players, they enjoy the core game, and then buy the expansion for 50$ .

Perhaps I’m just being wishful here, but I think that would have avoided most of the complaints, and this whole fiasco.

Then all they would need to do is prove the expansion is worth 50$ to those that don’t want to pre-order right now.

IndigoSundown.5419:

All a lawyer would need to do is point to ANet’s only prior sale of an expansion (Eye of the North). Players were required to own one of the GW campaigns to access EotN content. EotN was later bundled with other campaigns in package deals, but was not so bundled when first offered. That lawyer could also then point to other providers in the same industry who require a base game to access an expansion, and also do not provide a bundle on the first offering of that expansion. At this point, multiple precedents would support the contention that consumers had every right to expect that purchase of the game was necessary, not that the game was necessary.

Once that was established, your defense point would be reduced to semantics and dismissed as a consideration in determining whether consumers were misled. This would not prove intent to deceive. That could not be proved without more information than I’ve seen. However, I don’t believe that would be necessary to establish that ANet is in the wrong.

That did crossed my mind. It sounds reasonable enough, though I’m no lawyer.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

XeoShock.7094:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“The real problem however is that ever since they announced HoT, they said you would need the base game. "

This has not changed. HoT still requires the base game to play it. This is not false advertising.

“For months they had sales of the game, for months they profited with that information.
And now all of a sudden the FAQ changes and states that HoT includes the base game for free”

Unfortunately this sounds like more of a suits issue than anything else. When they put up the basic FAQ they probably hadn’t ironed out exactly what the expansion packs would contain. The ‘hey lets roll the base game in’ seems like a later decision, which really shouldn’t be as big an issue as people are making it.

“What has Anet done so far to adress this issue? A single forum post saying people could look for a refund? That may or may not work?
How many of those customers will actually see that forum post?”
I agree that this is an issue. This information should be on the front page of the website, in a sticky at the top of the forum, as well as tweeted and facebooked out. The information should also contain details on what information needs to be included in the request to support, the warning that the current account will be lost, and a concrete date that they (anet) are willing to refund back to.

“The real problem is that they have not revealed $50 worth of content… so far we have seen $15-20 worth…”
This is entirely a matter of opinion. Many have liked what they have seen, and as such have already tossed their money at anet for the expansion. Others, like yourself, obviously just need to wait til it comes out, get feedback from the people playing it, and make a final decision at that point.

The part about FAQ, why you are belittling something that has caused an uproar is beyond me.

And you cannot assume when or how the decision was made, Vayne made that clear to me and I agree with that.

The issue is not that they changed the page. That should have been expected. It is not uncommon for companies to make decisions that require their FAQ pages to be updated to be accurate.

The issue is that Anet didn’t have concrete decisions to begin with, and as such people made purchases they didn’t necessarily need to. However, it does sound like they are trying to rectify that a bit by doing refunds for those that ask.

And why should I assume this? This implies that now you are amusing what you want to believe in order to prove your statements, but that is not the case.

White Knight and twist all you want, the point is that the FAQ were misleading and have caused a hard issue.

Wolfeng.3784:

I wonder why the didn’t just left the game at a 10$ price, if the purpose of the pre-order is to have a low barrier of entry, that would be huge.

It would have been damaging. A $10 account becomes profitable after 2 months just by logging in every day. On the other hand, it wouldn’t have lasted as the items being sold would greatly diminish in value. The other problem with a cheap entry fee is that it make it very easy for bots/spammer/etc.

To prevent that, they simply repackaged the game, merging GW2 and HoT. They should have offered HoT for $49.99 and HoT+GW2 for $59.99. Instead, they cut the heroic edition and simply included it for free. The heroic edition’s rewards alone had a $20 value, so if you subtract that from the $10 price tag, the core game by itself has no value.

Healix.5819:

Wolfeng.3784:

I wonder why the didn’t just left the game at a 10$ price, if the purpose of the pre-order is to have a low barrier of entry, that would be huge.

It would have been damaging. A $10 account becomes profitable after 2 months just by logging in every day. On the other hand, it wouldn’t have lasted as the items being sold would greatly diminish in value. The other problem with a cheap entry fee is that it make it very easy for bots/spammer/etc.

To prevent that, they simply repackaged the game, merging GW2 and HoT. They should have offered HoT for $49.99 and HoT+GW2 for $59.99. Instead, they cut the heroic edition and simply included it for free. The heroic edition’s rewards alone had a $20 value, so if you subtract that from the $10 price tag, the core game by itself has no value.

Good points, I didn’t consider that.
That HoT+GW2 does sounds more reasonable, and still acting as a low barrier of entry. But alas, that can’t happen anymore. Well not for now at least.

Vayne.8563:

I think the OP needs to go get a law degree before making claims like this. This would never go to court. Anet is offering refunds to people, and a FAQ for an unreleased game wouldn’t be considered advertising anyway.

Vayne sometimes I really wonder about you, really really wonder.

Healix.5819:

They should have offered HoT for $49.99 and HoT+GW2 for $59.99. Instead, they cut the heroic edition and simply included it for free. The heroic edition’s rewards alone had a $20 value, so if you subtract that from the $10 price tag, the core game by itself has no value.

Or sold HoT+GW2 for $49.99 ( current pricing)
and HOT upgrade + character slot for $49.99 ( to add a perk to veteran players)
Done deal everyone is happy.

At this point I, nor my guild is buying HOT

Anet or NcSoft has it backwards.

You don’t give the core game to people buying the expansion, you give a rebate on the expansion to new players buying the core game. You need to reward your veteran players by having them pay less than new players for new content, not give them stuff they already have and tell them its a deal. At the same time, you need to make it cheaper to get the full game than each product separately.