Guild Wars 2

PopeUrban.2578:

Jerus.4350:

UnbentMars.9126:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Avster.1935:

Specialization is THE BEST way to horizontally expand classes.

In theory, but not in practice as we’ve seen with HoT.

How so?

Horizontal means to the side, as in one isn’t greater than the other, and that’s just simply not the fact in most cases when we’re talking about HoT specializations and HoT in general.

Due to their basic design, Elite specializations simply can’t be horizontal compliments to the base specs because they can be stacked with the base specs

Their design intent was always that they are horizontal adjustments in relation ot other elite specs because they can’t be combined.

Anet’s failing was releasing HoT with only one choice of Elite spec, as all future balance is supposed to revolve around the assumption that players equip one elite spec and 2 base specs.

Alternately, they could have adjusted/considered one of the core specs as “elite” and buffed it accordingly so it fit better with the new system, however that would have had the opposite effect, creating even less build options than simply letting the core specs all be considered on par with one another and stackable.

It is impossible as a function of basic design for a core spec build to remain competitive with Elite spec builds, simply because core specs can combine with elite specs however the user chooses.

Use thief for example. Lets say acro was a viable alternative to daredevil. You can stack acro with daredevil. This means that you still have an apex predator build compared to an all base spec build simply because your base specs would be lacking that stacked endurance traits.

The same goes for the other elite specs. If an elite spec offers duplicate functionality to an existing spec (and in some ways they have to) then if core specs were reasonable alternatives, the only result would be, effectively, even less build variety. Your more efficient option would always be elite+complimentarybase+otherbase. Effectively, you’d turn elite specs in to a system that takes up 2 trait lines rather than one.

Unfortunately for me, Rangers ended up getting a near-kitten -useless strictly-support spec with a unique mechanic that destroys the player’s direct/solo offensive ability, as far as I’ve been able to tell. All the other elite specs I’ve tried seem to contribute a lot less one-note dedication.

Vayne.8563:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Are you saying that players didn’t use the legendary journies feature? I have seen way too many of the new legendaries to believe that.

I have a guild of well over 200 people. 4 of us have gone for new legendaries. For most casual players they’re far too expensive. I’m not sure annecdotally how many you’ve seen, but being that so many players, according to those that say they know, didn’t buy HoT, I don’t see how such a large percentage could possibly be working on it.

It’s funny, people try to assure me the expansion didn’t sell. then try to convince me everyone has a HoT weapon.

Which is it?

So, a full 2% of your guild has had people go for the new legendaries. That’s an order of magnitude more than the playerbase that’s gone for raids.

Sartharina.3542:

Vayne.8563:

Dashingsteel.3410:

Are you saying that players didn’t use the legendary journies feature? I have seen way too many of the new legendaries to believe that.

I have a guild of well over 200 people. 4 of us have gone for new legendaries. For most casual players they’re far too expensive. I’m not sure annecdotally how many you’ve seen, but being that so many players, according to those that say they know, didn’t buy HoT, I don’t see how such a large percentage could possibly be working on it.

It’s funny, people try to assure me the expansion didn’t sell. then try to convince me everyone has a HoT weapon.

Which is it?

So, a full 2% of your guild has had people go for the new legendaries. That’s an order of magnitude more than the playerbase that’s gone for raids.

We have about the same percentage of people in our guild who have gone for raids, as have gone for legendaries. That is to say not many. But I think there are probably more people raiding than making the new legendaries.

Now that might not be because people like raiding more. People just might not use a pistol very often. Or they might not like the tiger bow. There are a lot of reasons why people might not want to make legendaries, besides just time and cost.

But think of it this way.

To make a new legendary, you have to be one of the kind of people who make legendaries in the first place, you have to be one of the people who bought HOT and on top of that you have to like the legendary they provide. If you don’t like it, you don’t make it.

That probably doesn’t happen as much with raids. Just guessing of course.

Manasa Devi.7958:

It ruined the game for me in that it was a huge letdown.

No it didn’t, you have been complaining about the game for well over a year..continuously, which is a strange thing to do in itself right?

In fact, you played HOT for at least what 6 months, that’s an expansion on a game that you previously stated had nothing left for you to do??

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

It ruined the game for me in that it was a huge letdown.

You’ve been complaining about the game since long before HoT. Like years. So how is it HOT ruined the game for you when you were so unhappy before HoT?

Lies.

No it didn’t, you have been complaining about the game for well over a year..continuously, which is a strange thing to do in itself right?

More lies.

Manasa Devi.7958:

It ruined the game for me in that it was a huge letdown.

While I don’t share this opinion, I do know more than a few people who do. They quit the game and moved to greener pastures because of it. Hopefully, when Living World returns, some of them will come back.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

It ruined the game for me in that it was a huge letdown.

You’ve been complaining about the game since long before HoT. Like years. So how is it HOT ruined the game for you when you were so unhappy before HoT?

Lies.

No it didn’t, you have been complaining about the game for well over a year..continuously, which is a strange thing to do in itself right?

More lies.

Hmmmm…

Manasa Devi.7958:

I got a grand total of 2 badges for 50 kills. (I stopped playing the second the monthly achievement pinged.) I don’t have anything to compare it to, because those are the only 50 kills I ever made in WvWvW. Seems a bit poor.

^ 3 years ago

Manasa Devi.7958:

dungeons are dreadfully boring. After the ridiculously long time it took us to whittle away the obscenely large health totals of the first few trash mobs in the Catacombs (story mode), I would’ve logged off if I wasn’t there with guildmates that I didn’t want to let down. I was bored with what I was doing 5 minutes into it. Design like that doesn’t entice me to adapt to the required playstyle, it turns me away because it’s not worth the bother.
And there’s more bother: I also need to respec and switch equipment between playing dungeons and open world content. Because my open world build can’t survive dungeons, and my dungeon build is far too defensive to be efficient in the open world. All in all, dungeons aren’t worth my time and effort. Fun content is worth investing time and effort into. GW2 dungeons aren’t. Even the rewards are discouraging me from playing more dungeons: I really don’t need those generically skinned hats with useless stats that storymode slaps you in the face with for putting up with it.
And the final nail in the whole dungeon deal, was finding out that my story ends in the last dungeon. I’ve been looking at the “Kill Zhaitan” objective for 2 weeks now, and I don’t have the slightest urge to act upon it. I don’t expect to be sticking for very long with a game I can’t even be bothered to finish.

^ 3 years ago

Manasa Devi.7958:

What’s horrible is having to try to get into a game where all dolyaks are still alive, and failing again and again, basically spending all my time looking at loading screens.
Hot join games with irreparable objectives are stupid.

^ 3 years ago

Manasa Devi.7958:

This patch turned playing GW2 into “loitering about doing nothing useful for hours on end to eventually have a shot at 15 minutes of what’s likely to be frustration.”
It fails the “Is it fun?” test.

^ 2 years ago

Manasa Devi.7958:

funkylovemonkey.3097:

You know what’s funny about this? For the last year people have been complaining about culling, asking for an end of culling.

So they end culling. Of course they are limited clientside by how fast your connection is and how fast your computer is, so to overcome that they put placeholder people in until your computer gets around to rendering the actual models.

Suddenly the calls to end culling are replaced by calls to bring culling back.

Awesome.

It’s not really funny, nor awesome.

It’s what happens when something is done terribly. With rendering settings that are actually useful, and actually work, it would be a great thing.

^ 2 years ago

Manasa Devi.7958:

First impression: boring as hell. Second impression: still boring as hell and also annoying. Will play it a bit for loot and achievements probably. Next patch in 2 weeks please.

^ 2 years ago

Manasa Devi.7958:

Rubbish. The log in rewards replace nothing. They just provided an excuse to remove certain rewards from the dailies. That, compounded by the pedestrian, asinine new PvE dailies, makes them several orders of magnitude less attractive to go after. There is not a shred of fun to be found in the new PvE dailies, making the whole system completely antithetical to the reasons why mentally healthy people play games: having fun. The only people served by this new system are the obsessives, and they’d be much better served by just taking the game away from them and putting them somewhere they can’t hurt themselves.

^ A years ago

Manasa Devi.7958:

GW2 has placed itself outside of the theme park vs. sandbox consideration.
It’s a petting zoo now.

^ A years ago

Manasa Devi.7958:

This kills the replay value for me.
I have brought 8 characters most of the way through season 2 (some are 1 or 2 chapters behind). Now, I’m looking forward to all of them being reduced to the same character with the same skills that’ll give me the exact same playing experience.
I cringe at the idea of doing this 7 more times, whereas I enjoyed playing previous story instances with different professions.
And to be honest, I didn’t even like playing with Caithe’s skills the first time.

^ A years ago

Manasa Devi.7958:

I expected nothing.
I was still disappointed.

^ 10 months ago

Yeah.

Looks like he may have a point.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

It ruined the game for me in that it was a huge letdown.

You’ve been complaining about the game since long before HoT. Like years. So how is it HOT ruined the game for you when you were so unhappy before HoT?

Lies.

No it didn’t, you have been complaining about the game for well over a year..continuously, which is a strange thing to do in itself right?

More lies.

lol its in your post history..

Please discuss the topic not each other.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Please discuss the topic not each other.

well the guy is clearly posting arguments that is more to do with his dislike of GW2 in general than the actual thread at hand.

To generalise though, its perception of HOT that is skewed by something, and that is relevant to a thread called ‘did hot ruin GW2’ It is interesting characteristic that some players have difficulty of letting go of a MMORPG when they don’t enjoy it, especially where its free to play like GW2.

Again, please don’t discuss the posters, but the actual discussion. I’m not going to get into a debate with you about it either.

Here, I’ll help:

I played GW2 since release.. but after HoT left a really bad taste in my mouth I haven’t played for nearly a year.. and I really doubt I’d buy another expansion after regretting my previous purchase.

In some ways, I miss how Heart of Thorns was originally. Not all, but some. Despite it, I have played every day . . . for the dailies at least.

I wish there was more to Heart of Thorns, but I didn’t stop playing it. Unlike some other games that didn’t hold my interest for even an hour.

Despite all this, I know I’ll continue to play and buy expansions unless something radical happens. I’ve never thought about it before, but GW2 is the MMO I’ve played longer than any other.

I suppose it’s my favorite MMO without knowing it. No, I’m not thrilled with the expansion either, but I’ll give ANet credit for trying to make everyone happy.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Again, please don’t discuss the posters, but the actual discussion. I’m not going to get into a debate with you about it either.

Here, I’ll help:

I played GW2 since release.. but after HoT left a really bad taste in my mouth I haven’t played for nearly a year.. and I really doubt I’d buy another expansion after regretting my previous purchase.

In some ways, I miss how Heart of Thorns was originally. Not all, but some. Despite it, I have played every day . . . for the dailies at least.

I wish there was more to Heart of Thorns, but I didn’t stop playing it. Unlike some other games that didn’t hold my interest for even an hour.

For me a mmorpg is about a sum of its parts. I don’t actually spend a lot of time in HOT zones, but it is nice that the game offers a different gameplay style that i can and do delve into sometimes, which I feel is the point of persistent worlds. Hot added some great stuff, some was less successful, but the key thing is that it built apon GW2, not at the expense of GW2 which is often what you see in other mmorpg like WOW where expansions rip the heart out of older content and simplify rather than enrich the virtual world for the avatars that live there.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Please discuss the topic not each other.

I’m sorry but my original post was absolutely on topic.

The topic of this post is Did HoT Ruin Guild Wars 2. That’s the topic we’re discussing. It’s the only topic of this thread.

Someone who didn’t like the game before HoT, who complained about it incessantly really can’t come in and say HoT ruined Guild Wars 2, when he already has so many issues with the game before HoT.

It talks directly to the issue at hand. I asked the question, and it’s a valid one, how can HoT have ruined a game for you that you already didn’t like.

Personally, I liked the game before HoT and I like the game after HoT. I’ve always said that I felt Guild Wars 2 was a good game that had the potential to be a great one.

And in my opinion, HoT brought that game far closer to being a great game. It provided more variety. It added gliding. It changed several systems to something I thought was better.

It’s not perfect, but it’s better than it was…to me.

But take someone that didn’t like the game to begin with, as evidenced by their post history, now claiming HoT somehow ruined the game for them… it sheds a different light on their assertion.

I’m not personally talking about anyone. I’m asking a valid question based on a statement I don’t understand. I don’t see how HoT could have ruined a game for someone who had so many issues with the game before HoT.

I’m not sure how much more on topic I could possible be.

PopeUrban.2578:

Jerus.4350:

UnbentMars.9126:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Avster.1935:

Specialization is THE BEST way to horizontally expand classes.

In theory, but not in practice as we’ve seen with HoT.

How so?

Horizontal means to the side, as in one isn’t greater than the other, and that’s just simply not the fact in most cases when we’re talking about HoT specializations and HoT in general.

Due to their basic design, Elite specializations simply can’t be horizontal compliments to the base specs because they can be stacked with the base specs

Their design intent was always that they are horizontal adjustments in relation ot other elite specs because they can’t be combined.

Anet’s failing was releasing HoT with only one choice of Elite spec, as all future balance is supposed to revolve around the assumption that players equip one elite spec and 2 base specs.

Alternately, they could have adjusted/considered one of the core specs as “elite” and buffed it accordingly so it fit better with the new system, however that would have had the opposite effect, creating even less build options than simply letting the core specs all be considered on par with one another and stackable.

It is impossible as a function of basic design for a core spec build to remain competitive with Elite spec builds, simply because core specs can combine with elite specs however the user chooses.

Use thief for example. Lets say acro was a viable alternative to daredevil. You can stack acro with daredevil. This means that you still have an apex predator build compared to an all base spec build simply because your base specs would be lacking that stacked endurance traits.

The same goes for the other elite specs. If an elite spec offers duplicate functionality to an existing spec (and in some ways they have to) then if core specs were reasonable alternatives, the only result would be, effectively, even less build variety. Your more efficient option would always be elite+complimentarybase+otherbase. Effectively, you’d turn elite specs in to a system that takes up 2 trait lines rather than one.

That’s not how it has to work, that’s how they made it work. I think Engi is a good example of how it should have been for all professions. Scrapper is good, it has great qualities, but in getting it you lose something of value from the replaced trait line.

For most professions the tradeoff just isn’t there, the elite option is just flat out better than any of the alternatives in almost any situation.

As a quick aside, I’m still finding it funny that they nerfed the hell out of Acro’s dodge capabilities for Thieves and then just gave it right back with daredevil.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Please discuss the topic not each other.

well the guy is clearly posting arguments that is more to do with his dislike of GW2 in general than the actual thread at hand.

This may come as a huge surprise, but it’s entirely possible to not like certain aspects of the game but still liking it. Cherry-picking my dislikes proves nothing about me, but speaks volumes about who’s doing it. Some of those cherry-picked quotes aren’t even picked well. One didn’t actually express dislike and another one was about an acknowledged bug that has since been fixed for crying out loud. I can’t dislike bugs now? Tough crowd.

And even if I didn’t like all of GW2 at every point in time over all the years I played, at no point did I consider it ruined until not too long ago. For many months before the launch of HoT, the game was stale, which was about parr for the course for a still expansion-less game of its age. But that’s not the same as ruined. There was hope, an expansion was coming. Post HoT, I don’t see this game ever being worth my time anymore, for reasons I’ve repeated ad nauseam many months ago.

And now apparently, people who don’t think the game is ruined have little else to contribute than to make fools of themselves trying to convince the world that they know my feelings about the game better than I do. Pathetic.

then perhaps you should reread through your post history, it is clear you have been very unhappy with GW2 for a very long time to the point where you refer to the fact it offers you nothing. SO HOT did not ruin it for you at all, especially since you got an addition 6 months life out of a game you disliked so much apparently.

vesica tempestas.1563:

then perhaps you should reread through your post history, it is clear you have been very unhappy with GW2 for a very long time to the point where you refer to the fact it offers you nothing. SO HOT did not ruin it for you at all, especially since you got an addition 6 months life out of a game you disliked so much apparently.

I did reread through my post history. There’s nothing there that points to me thinking the game was ruined. Disliking a feature, or a change, doesn’t equate to disliking the game.

Do you remember posting these?

vesica tempestas.1563:

Living story = fragmented story over a long time period. Telling any story in small chunks over a long time period is not a great format.

vesica tempestas.1563:

they need to sort the issues with the new maps, rotating just hides the problem temporarily.

vesica tempestas.1563:

I play GW2 to escape the real world, I do not need a lesson on acceptance and tolerance, im quite happy with my acceptance and tolerance levels, I want a storyline to be about GW lore not sexual orientation.

Holy mackerel, you obviously hate this game.

Edited to add some more hate.

I do lol, the first is about my preference for large expansions, the second is the design issues with the new wvw maps (i love wvw) and the 3rd was um a discussion about using games to champion sexuality. I don’t blame HOT for any of this.

Anyway off track, I do not think HOT ruined GW2 because it added to it and did not replace it.

GW2 has always been an evolving game that had stuff added to it. (HoT did in fact replace huge chunks of the game, by the way). With HoT, its evolutionary course became ruinous for me, adding mostly stuff I have no interest in. It went from a game in a (for me) attractive flux to a game in a (for me) repulsive flux.

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

Mirta.5029:

Vayne.8563:

Anet doesn’t have enough staff to get everything done at all once.

what you’re seeing is lack of organization and not lack of staff.

Agreed. That they’ve got this massive staff, yet continuously fail to deliver on what they aspire to do says quite clearly the resources they have aren’t utilized well. One need look no further than HOT’s dropped legendary weapons to know the score on this account.

Or they thought people would make them and people weren’t making them and they made a decision to stop because people weren’t utilising the content in large enough numbers.

A single example with no factual basis for the determining of the decision says very little. It’s proof of nothing.

Perhaps more people would have made them if they weren’t gated behind events that forced those who desired them into direct conflict with those who wished to successfully complete dynamic events. Unfortunately for everyone involved – from the players all the way up to Collin Johanson himself – the new legendaries were as poorly conceived and implemented as the rest of HOT.

Hey everybody, this thread has taken a turn towards insults and personal attacks and we are going to lock it.