Guild Wars 2

Don’t expect raid content in the traditional sense though, but yes I do believe we will see raid level difficulty content added to gw2 with HoT, with an a.net twist to it.

Can’t wait to see what that twist is, and how it will affect the accepted status quo of how raid level content is designed and implemented.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Swagger.1459:

Iirc, they are not investing resources in dungeons so that means no dungeon raids either.

Source?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Very-disappointing-news-for-you-guys

Swagger.1459:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Swagger.1459:

Iirc, they are not investing resources in dungeons so that means no dungeon raids either.

Source?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Very-disappointing-news-for-you-guys

Q: When will we get more dungeon, fractal, any kind of dungeon related changes? Like another question is hardmode for dungeons.

• Hardmode is something we’re staying away from at this point.
• Thrown around ideas to increase longevity of dungeons without doing major reworks like Twilight Arbour.
• Twilight Arbour was a pretty serious amount of work. Not necessarily something they want to commit to at this point (Aug 22, 2014).
• Fractals are flexible; allow to add smaller chunks of content without the work required to redo a dungeon.

Nothing in that interview said that they’re not creating new dungeon content, just that they’re not doing massive changes like Aetherpath.

Given the age of the interview and when HoT was announced, things could have easily changed since then.

Knighthonor.4061:

tigirius.9014:

As we’ve seen by the great example of the sister game Wildstar , I think they learned their lesson on trying to support the 1% in game design.

So no. Just no.

I believe there were other elements at play that ruined Wildstar. Because both Rift and WoW are successful and do Raids the best in the genre. Action combat likely killed that game.

Actually both WoW and Rift have moved away from raids as their mainstay how many times have we heard from the old schoolers complaining that LFR allows casuals to see content that used to be restricted or complain that Rift added solo dungeons. It’s a known fact that Raids are on their way out. The only reasons WoW and Rift continue to churn out more is because people would complain too much since it would be too much of a change for people to handle and they want to maintain as wide an audience as they can to continue revenue. Not because it’s successful.

People would go through all kinds of growing pains if they knew that raids were completely disappearing from the genre we’d never hear the end of it.

tigirius.9014:

Knighthonor.4061:

tigirius.9014:

As we’ve seen by the great example of the sister game Wildstar , I think they learned their lesson on trying to support the 1% in game design.

So no. Just no.

I believe there were other elements at play that ruined Wildstar. Because both Rift and WoW are successful and do Raids the best in the genre. Action combat likely killed that game.

Actually both WoW and Rift have moved away from raids as their mainstay how many times have we heard from the old schoolers complaining that LFR allows casuals to see content that used to be restricted or complain that Rift added solo dungeons. It’s a known fact that Raids are on their way out. The only reasons WoW and Rift continue to churn out more is because people would complain too much since it would be too much of a change for people to handle and they want to maintain as wide an audience as they can to continue revenue. Not because it’s successful.

People would go through all kinds of growing pains if they knew that raids were completely disappearing from the genre we’d never hear the end of it.

LFR is actually popular feature for WoW because more people actually want to Raid, but cant due to guilds usually having certain requirements that they cant meet. LFR gives them a way around that.

I love Raid Dungeons, but didnt raid since early WoTLK WoW because I didnt want to be bound to a Guild anymore.

Knighthonor.4061:

tigirius.9014:

Knighthonor.4061:

tigirius.9014:

As we’ve seen by the great example of the sister game Wildstar , I think they learned their lesson on trying to support the 1% in game design.

So no. Just no.

I believe there were other elements at play that ruined Wildstar. Because both Rift and WoW are successful and do Raids the best in the genre. Action combat likely killed that game.

Actually both WoW and Rift have moved away from raids as their mainstay how many times have we heard from the old schoolers complaining that LFR allows casuals to see content that used to be restricted or complain that Rift added solo dungeons. It’s a known fact that Raids are on their way out. The only reasons WoW and Rift continue to churn out more is because people would complain too much since it would be too much of a change for people to handle and they want to maintain as wide an audience as they can to continue revenue. Not because it’s successful.

People would go through all kinds of growing pains if they knew that raids were completely disappearing from the genre we’d never hear the end of it.

LFR is actually popular feature for WoW because more people actually want to Raid, but cant due to guilds usually having certain requirements that they cant meet. LFR gives them a way around that.

I love Raid Dungeons, but didnt raid since early WoTLK WoW because I didnt want to be bound to a Guild anymore.

Actually the reason why people use LFR isn’t because of wanting to raid in fact as you’d see in their forums and news it’s filled with people who’d rather not like to have to do that to see the content. WoW traditionally doesn’t have a dynamic open world structure and has been coded to be instanced heavily.

So LFR was modified in it’s recent incarnation to allow players who don’t normally get to see that content because they care less about raiding and what raiding represents as a play style and people are complaining about it because they don’t like it that those people are there. They just made it simple right off the bat so that casuals didn’t leave the game earlier because traditionally it would be the third patch before early raids allowed casuals to see the content by nerfing all of the bosses and trash mobs.

I’m not downing what they did but it’s good to be clear as to the reasons why these things happened.

Don’t misinterpret a lazy development schedule for the desires of the players.

tigirius.9014:

As we’ve seen by the great example of the sister game Wildstar , I think they learned their lesson on trying to support the 1% in game design.

I’d kind of imagine that being exactly like WoW enough to kitten off all the WoW haters while simultaneously being exactly like GW2 enough to kitten off all of the GW2 haters would be the kiss of death for any MMO, but feel free to pretend that Wildstar’s troubles were caused entirely by focusing on raids.

In the meantime, FFXIV is doing incredibly well, and has a whole suite of endgame offerings, comprising raids, raids, raids, and hardmode dungeons. It’s also posting some pretty good player retention statistics. Interesting, huh?

Saying “raids are coming” is just like hearing “winter is coming” in Game of Thrones.

….it never does…..

evilunderling.9265:

tigirius.9014:

As we’ve seen by the great example of the sister game Wildstar , I think they learned their lesson on trying to support the 1% in game design.

I’d kind of imagine that being exactly like WoW enough to kitten off all the WoW haters while simultaneously being exactly like GW2 enough to kitten off all of the GW2 haters would be the kiss of death for any MMO, but feel free to pretend that Wildstar’s troubles were caused entirely by focusing on raids.

In the meantime, FFXIV is doing incredibly well, and has a whole suite of endgame offerings, comprising raids, raids, raids, and hardmode dungeons. It’s also posting some pretty good player retention statistics. Interesting, huh?

Where are you getting information about FF14? The last report I saw (Jan 2015) was Square Enix had less then 1 Million subscribers for all 3 of their MMOs together. Square Enix at one time mentioned 2 Million account for FF14 alone, but now they are down to less then 1 Million for all 3 of their MMOs together. That doesn’t look like great retention rate at all.

I won’t be holding my breath.

Don’t count on hardcore raids, at all. Wildstar went down that route, and it didn’t end well.

I do expect more content for guilds as a whole. That’s what raids are, guild content. And right now there is very little guild content besides some missions and WvW.

Raids could very well be coming but essentially just be World Bosses, but instanced. So you do them with your guild, without the outside randoms. By the power of the Mists of course, something you do through the new Guild Halls.

That is what I’d wager “raids” to be in GW2.

Terrahero.9358:

Don’t count on hardcore raids, at all. Wildstar went down that route, and it didn’t end well.

I do expect more content for guilds as a whole. That’s what raids are, guild content. And right now there is very little guild content besides some missions and WvW.

Raids could very well be coming but essentially just be World Bosses, but instanced. So you do them with your guild, without the outside randoms. By the power of the Mists of course, something you do through the new Guild Halls.

That is what I’d wager “raids” to be in GW2.

I’m not a hardcore promoter everywhere but Wildstar failed due to other issues as well and as a sub fee game don’t expect everyone to deal with it. Vindictus and C9 have hardcore pve dungeons and raids(casualization was present as well) and great combat,that made the population stay everything else made it go away p2w,grind,balance,lagg..

My two cent~

Raids was and is not the reason Wildstar has become such a flop. New IP, poor leadership, ignoring beta feedback, and lousy everything beside housing/raids was/is the problem.

As for GW2 I do hope instance raid content eventually shows, so tired of afk’s and bad players ignoring simple mechanics of a fight for the same reward.

eisberg.2379:

Where are you getting information about FF14? The last report I saw (Jan 2015) was Square Enix had less then 1 Million subscribers for all 3 of their MMOs together. Square Enix at one time mentioned 2 Million account for FF14 alone, but now they are down to less then 1 Million for all 3 of their MMOs together. That doesn’t look like great retention rate at all.

I’ll bite, although that’s not really something I’d like to be dragged into.

World of Warcraft has sold something like 60 million copies and currently claims 10 million subscribers — with a pretty broad definition of the word ‘subscriber’. “That doesn’t look like a great retention rate at all.”

A game claiming 500k unique daily logins off of 2 million copies sold — and quite clearly still growing? That’s pretty good (Note: neither subscriber numbers nor unique daily logins are really that great a measure of how populated an MMO is, but a unique daily login is certainly worth far more than what Blizzard thinks a ‘subscriber’ is).

The data for that report is also far older than the publication date — note that the bulk of things listed are “as of March 2014”.

I see a few old WoW types of players thinking raids must have the basic roles of healer, tank and dps. That is not what makes a raid. That is how it was designed for the subscription based game that put out a Chinese expansion, complete with Chinese food, endless pandas, Chinese architecture and the crappy “White tiger watch over you” line.

A raid consists of far more than “this is your only role noob” and requires a coordinated effort by larger groups. Which of the two was the noob fails? Tank can’t keep aggro or stepping into the purple circle too much? The raid would not only fit into Anet’s way of play-style but it would flourish. I mean, the possible combinations the professions bring to this game allow for one to bring what they have to the group. Some offer group protection or heals, to a point, while others add buffs and better cc for the group. If GW2 was simple stack and burn the boss, as a few mentioned, then completing a fractal with a group of mesmers should be easy, right? Might be good to take a guardian perhaps? Anet did for this game where Blizzard failed in WoW. There are no loot issues, for one, but there are many more I will not go into. My point is, if Anet wanted to dedicate some time and server space to raids for the big boys, it could be done easily, as long as they have a lot of coffee or tea. The dungeons and fractals alone already prove the trinity is not required.

I am not by far the most knowledgeable mmo player here, but 6 years of WoW, including doing all the raids before I left, leaving 10 maxed toons there while I have 6 maxed here and almost two years with GW2 gives me at least enough xp to tell a few of you to go get a diaper change and man up a little. You whine worse than my four-year old and do not have a clue of gaming architecture, what makes a raid or how old it is to read the same complaints that have little value for the game. When I left WoW and came here it was like a breath of fresh air and it still is, so far.

Let the slice ’n dice of my comments and opinions commence…

Bwembo.8531:

I see a few old WoW types of players thinking raids must have the basic roles of healer, tank and dps. That is not what makes a raid. That is how it was designed for the subscription based game that put out a Chinese expansion, complete with Chinese food, endless pandas, Chinese architecture and the crappy “White tiger watch over you” line.

A raid consists of far more than “this is your only role noob” and requires a coordinated effort by larger groups. Which of the two was the noob fails? Tank can’t keep aggro or stepping into the purple circle too much? The raid would not only fit into Anet’s way of play-style but it would flourish. I mean, the possible combinations the professions bring to this game allow for one to bring what they have to the group. Some offer group protection or heals, to a point, while others add buffs and better cc for the group. If GW2 was simple stack and burn the boss, as a few mentioned, then completing a fractal with a group of mesmers should be easy, right? Might be good to take a guardian perhaps? Anet did for this game where Blizzard failed in WoW. There are no loot issues, for one, but there are many more I will not go into. My point is, if Anet wanted to dedicate some time and server space to raids for the big boys, it could be done easily, as long as they have a lot of coffee or tea. The dungeons and fractals alone already prove the trinity is not required.

I am not by far the most knowledgeable mmo player here, but 6 years of WoW, including doing all the raids before I left, leaving 10 maxed toons there while I have 6 maxed here and almost two years with GW2 gives me at least enough xp to tell a few of you to go get a diaper change and man up a little. You whine worse than my four-year old and do not have a clue of gaming architecture, what makes a raid or how old it is to read the same complaints that have little value for the game. When I left WoW and came here it was like a breath of fresh air and it still is, so far.

Let the slice ’n dice of my comments and opinions commence…

Everquest?
Rift?

Show me a raid dungeon that didn’t have trinity please.

I’d like special events that lead to other special events that lead to other special events that lead to other special events that lead to larger special events and eventually it would lead to those having done all those events to access a special event that looks like a raid but isn’t a raid, yet offers new things to experience and such.

Maya.8715:

I’d like special events that lead to other special events that lead to other special events that lead to other special events that lead to larger special events and eventually it would lead to those having done all those events to access a special event that looks like a raid but isn’t a raid, yet offers new things to experience and such.

Than it won’t be a raid. It will be another zerger

Wetpaw.3487:

As for GW2 I do hope instance raid content eventually shows, so tired of afk’s and bad players ignoring simple mechanics of a fight for the same reward.

Yeah get that feeling often as well. Although I think this is more a result of there not really being any challenging content in game.

Knighthonor.4061:

Maya.8715:

I’d like special events that lead to other special events that lead to other special events that lead to other special events that lead to larger special events and eventually it would lead to those having done all those events to access a special event that looks like a raid but isn’t a raid, yet offers new things to experience and such.

Than it won’t be a raid. It will be another zerger

Yes, if we define raids as exclusively being instanced content.

lordkrall.7241:

Maybe?

We do know that they did hire raid designer quite some time ago. Along with some major work on AI.

One could also read the Masteries unlocking daily Champions for Rewards as potential raids, I suppose.

Time will tell.

They did hire raid designers I agree with that. But Anet philosophy has always been to implement it in their world and never as an instance. Maybe those people are raid specialists but would work on something new for the game. Proper difficult and hard content rather than just mash the 1 button on all world bosses. Only time will tell I guess. My guess will be raids are not comming to GW2 but maybe something similar is.

Knighthonor.4061:

Maya.8715:

I’d like special events that lead to other special events that lead to other special events that lead to other special events that lead to larger special events and eventually it would lead to those having done all those events to access a special event that looks like a raid but isn’t a raid, yet offers new things to experience and such.

Than it won’t be a raid. It will be another zerger

and? You are the one who specifically defines a raid as “something with trinity”. I am somewhat looking forward to your posts if HoT will not bring your beloved system. Are you going to lament then for another 2 years or finally pick up WoW again? Another project for you: You could try to pester the Oxford Dictionary to introduce your “a raid is something with trinity” definition :P

One thing I see constantly in this thread, a theme that is of considerable concern: “big boys”, “non-casuals”, “real skill” and other such attitudes from the pro-raiding group. This is the exact kind of stigma that the raiding community is well known for and why players of this NON-RAIDING GAME are so against such content. It’s not a matter of having the content optional or not, having it just because, and all the reasons in the world. No, it’s a matter of the type of community disdain that brings with the “I raided X and have these shinny ruby slippers so I’m better than you” attitude. Also it is a matter of locking away content from a large portion of the non-raiding PvE community. And as even Blizzard has admitted, only a fraction of their community raids, so developing for that fraction of a community that is even a lesser fraction here in GW2 would be a waste of development time and resources for A.Net.

Everquest?
Rift?

Show me a raid dungeon that didn’t have trinity please.[/quote]

Because a raid in other games have a certain makeup, it does not mean that is the only way it can be done. The same trinity is needed for for just plain dungeons. As I recall, it is one tank, one healer and three dps. GW2 proved with their dungeons and fractals that the trinity is not needed to have such content. Raids, as large scale as they can be, can be created as well. Just because the other kids on the block do it, does not make it the only way or the better way. In my opinion, they all do it because one created the idea and the others copied it because it was easier than being creative. It also gave noobs a comfort level of knowing they have a tank or healer to get them out of trouble. No sir, the trinity is not needed. It is just one way.

Siphaed.9235:

One thing I see constantly in this thread, a theme that is of considerable concern: “big boys”, “non-casuals”, “real skill” and other such attitudes from the pro-raiding group. This is the exact kind of stigma that the raiding community is well known for and why players of this NON-RAIDING GAME are so against such content. It’s not a matter of having the content optional or not, having it just because, and all the reasons in the world. No, it’s a matter of the type of community disdain that brings with the “I raided X and have these shinny ruby slippers so I’m better than you” attitude. Also it is a matter of locking away content from a large portion of the non-raiding PvE community. And as even Blizzard has admitted, only a fraction of their community raids, so developing for that fraction of a community that is even a lesser fraction here in GW2 would be a waste of development time and resources for A.Net.

The only difference I see in implementing raids:

Better controlled environment for the devs and players
No trolls
No moochers
No AFK’s
One loading screen

and what Bwembo.8531 said, kinda. I don’t believe it was for the “noobs”. Trinity gave a sense of comradery and reputation, a concept that GW2 seriously lacks. That’s not to say GW2 needs a hard trinity either, but just a reflection of my personal experience and friends that I have played with.

I don’t necessarily think raids in a traditional sense like WoW or LotRO etc are coming but I think we will get some form of open world “raid” through either masteries, guild missions or just triggered events in the world but I wouldn’t mind in the slightest.

The cost/benefit on raids has just got to be awful.

I wouldn’t hold my breath.

What kind of raid do you guys think will come, if at all? Fight Sylvari, Mordrem, both?

Wetpaw.3487:

Siphaed.9235:

One thing I see constantly in this thread, a theme that is of considerable concern: “big boys”, “non-casuals”, “real skill” and other such attitudes from the pro-raiding group. This is the exact kind of stigma that the raiding community is well known for and why players of this NON-RAIDING GAME are so against such content. It’s not a matter of having the content optional or not, having it just because, and all the reasons in the world. No, it’s a matter of the type of community disdain that brings with the “I raided X and have these shinny ruby slippers so I’m better than you” attitude. Also it is a matter of locking away content from a large portion of the non-raiding PvE community. And as even Blizzard has admitted, only a fraction of their community raids, so developing for that fraction of a community that is even a lesser fraction here in GW2 would be a waste of development time and resources for A.Net.

The only difference I see in implementing raids:

Better controlled environment for the devs and players
No trolls
No moochers
No AFK’s
One loading screen

and what Bwembo.8531 said, kinda. I don’t believe it was for the “noobs”. Trinity gave a sense of comradery and reputation, a concept that GW2 seriously lacks. That’s not to say GW2 needs a hard trinity either, but just a reflection of my personal experience and friends that I have played with.

Had to give you a +1 for your comment. My “noob” remark was for the crybabies whining and complaining that Anet this and other MMOs that. I just believe if a dungeon and fractal can work with the current methods of no trinity, a raid can easily follow along those lines as well. Either way, it is the whole group working together making a raid a success.