Guild Wars 2

Selene.9415:

Galen Grey.4709:

ITs actually better then that not only people got refunds but also were allowed to keep their account progress.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aege1/a_follow_up_to_my_post_that_blew_up_out_of/

It is not better than that.

That reddit thread was one person who had to be tenacious and keep persuading support that he shouldn’t be punished through account termination.

Their standard response to people looking for an upgrade is the typical “30day, account will be terminated, blah, blah” and some people have already taken it.

Anet should have been doing that from the start, but they haven’t.

care to link these? cause I am pretty sure those are nothing but people quoting the standard refund request response. Which according to other people who also succesfully got the account refunded without loosing progress has now changed:

“Actually the code that you are requesting a refund will be permanently disabled. If you registered the code, all features, including game access, will be removed. If you haven’t used the code, the code cannot be registered.If you wish to repurchase the game or the expansion at a later date you will be able to pick up where you last left off by applying a new serial code. Your existing account will not be banned.”

So even if before you had to convince them not to do it (havent seen a single person say they actually lost progress) its definitely not needed anymore.

Elorna.5329:

I prepurchased the expansion without noticing the whole “core game included” clause. I did it because in the 10 years I’ve been Anet’s customer I never once felt like I’m getting a bad deal, and I just flat out trusted the company.

But for the first time in those 10 years I kinda feel cheated now (even though I’m fully aware it was my own fault for not reading through the offer carefully), not because new players are getting more value for their money, but because veteran players are getting treated differently, like we’re something that is a given, instead of a precious resource they should be building upon. I won’t look for a refund, because I doubt I’d even get one, nor will I stop playing, but I’ll definitely look closer next time I buy anything, since Anet stopped being the company I can just trust with my money without a second thought.

This is just false perception. You get exactly the same thing new players get with the only difference they get the core game cheaper cause well its 3 years old now. That has been happening for quite a while now, they had multiple discounts promotions.

Galen Grey.4709:

Selene.9415:

Galen Grey.4709:

ITs actually better then that not only people got refunds but also were allowed to keep their account progress.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aege1/a_follow_up_to_my_post_that_blew_up_out_of/

It is not better than that.

That reddit thread was one person who had to be tenacious and keep persuading support that he shouldn’t be punished through account termination.

Their standard response to people looking for an upgrade is the typical “30day, account will be terminated, blah, blah” and some people have already taken it.

Anet should have been doing that from the start, but they haven’t.

care to link these? cause I am pretty sure those are nothing but people quoting the standard refund request response. Which according to other people who also succesfully got the account refunded without loosing progress has now changed:

“Actually the code that you are requesting a refund will be permanently disabled. If you registered the code, all features, including game access, will be removed. If you haven’t used the code, the code cannot be registered.If you wish to repurchase the game or the expansion at a later date you will be able to pick up where you last left off by applying a new serial code. Your existing account will not be banned.”

So even if before you had to convince them not to do it (havent seen a single person say they actually lost progress) its definitely not needed anymore.

Hm. Hadn’t read that thread since a few hours after it first came out, guess CS changed their response. Which is good.

http://i.imgur.com/zPywVMI.png

That was their initial response to people.

Selene.9415:

Galen Grey.4709:

Selene.9415:

Galen Grey.4709:

ITs actually better then that not only people got refunds but also were allowed to keep their account progress.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aege1/a_follow_up_to_my_post_that_blew_up_out_of/

It is not better than that.

That reddit thread was one person who had to be tenacious and keep persuading support that he shouldn’t be punished through account termination.

Their standard response to people looking for an upgrade is the typical “30day, account will be terminated, blah, blah” and some people have already taken it.

Anet should have been doing that from the start, but they haven’t.

care to link these? cause I am pretty sure those are nothing but people quoting the standard refund request response. Which according to other people who also succesfully got the account refunded without loosing progress has now changed:

“Actually the code that you are requesting a refund will be permanently disabled. If you registered the code, all features, including game access, will be removed. If you haven’t used the code, the code cannot be registered.If you wish to repurchase the game or the expansion at a later date you will be able to pick up where you last left off by applying a new serial code. Your existing account will not be banned.”

So even if before you had to convince them not to do it (havent seen a single person say they actually lost progress) its definitely not needed anymore.

Hm. Hadn’t read that thread since a few hours after it first came out, guess CS changed their response. Which is good.

http://i.imgur.com/zPywVMI.png

That was their initial response to people.

yes I am aware they had a different response. I am just no aware if they actually applied it to anyone. (IE that someone requested this change and actual got his progress deleted)

That would have been pretty evil thing to do and a bad idea on their part. I mean I get it that they want to deter people from refunding and it makes sense but why deter them from rebuying in the future, that part doesnt make sense

Galen Grey.4709:

Selene.9415:

Galen Grey.4709:

Selene.9415:

Galen Grey.4709:

ITs actually better then that not only people got refunds but also were allowed to keep their account progress.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aege1/a_follow_up_to_my_post_that_blew_up_out_of/

It is not better than that.

That reddit thread was one person who had to be tenacious and keep persuading support that he shouldn’t be punished through account termination.

Their standard response to people looking for an upgrade is the typical “30day, account will be terminated, blah, blah” and some people have already taken it.

Anet should have been doing that from the start, but they haven’t.

care to link these? cause I am pretty sure those are nothing but people quoting the standard refund request response. Which according to other people who also succesfully got the account refunded without loosing progress has now changed:

“Actually the code that you are requesting a refund will be permanently disabled. If you registered the code, all features, including game access, will be removed. If you haven’t used the code, the code cannot be registered.If you wish to repurchase the game or the expansion at a later date you will be able to pick up where you last left off by applying a new serial code. Your existing account will not be banned.”

So even if before you had to convince them not to do it (havent seen a single person say they actually lost progress) its definitely not needed anymore.

Hm. Hadn’t read that thread since a few hours after it first came out, guess CS changed their response. Which is good.

http://i.imgur.com/zPywVMI.png

That was their initial response to people.

yes I am aware they had a different response. I am just no aware if they actually applied it to anyone. (IE that someone requested this change and actual got his progress deleted)

That would have been pretty evil thing to do and a bad idea on their part. I mean I get it that they want to deter people from refunding and it makes sense but why deter them from rebuying in the future, that part doesnt make sense

Couldn’t say as well. Couple of my friends tried to get refunds but when they got that initial message they just said kitten it, got the refund and then decided to not continue playing.

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

I prepurchased the expansion without noticing the whole “core game included” clause. I did it because in the 10 years I’ve been Anet’s customer I never once felt like I’m getting a bad deal, and I just flat out trusted the company.

But for the first time in those 10 years I kinda feel cheated now (even though I’m fully aware it was my own fault for not reading through the offer carefully), not because new players are getting more value for their money, but because veteran players are getting treated differently, like we’re something that is a given, instead of a precious resource they should be building upon. I won’t look for a refund, because I doubt I’d even get one, nor will I stop playing, but I’ll definitely look closer next time I buy anything, since Anet stopped being the company I can just trust with my money without a second thought.

This is just false perception. You get exactly the same thing new players get with the only difference they get the core game cheaper cause well its 3 years old now. That has been happening for quite a while now, they had multiple discounts promotions.

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Upvotes on Reddit are no indication.

I myself upvoted that thread too before it blew out of proportion and turned into pure ANet employee abuse – solely because I didn’t approve ninja FAQ change, I had no issues with $50 price tag or character slot issue. People crying about character slot forgot that in GW2 unlike in WoW you can buy character slot with in-game currency. Thus this complaint is absolutely irrelevant. You might as well start crying that they fixing condi cap and “forcing” you to craft sinister ascended set – is it another “money grab”?

Generally speaking this entire story looks disgusting. My opinion is that “community outrage” was instigated and provoked by small group of people. Most likely people from “rival companies” (no name calling here). Its pretty common for the industry.

Its very sad to see how “best MMO community” fell for that trick. Open your eyes people – you are being used in the most blatant way. Opinions you voicing are not yours.

Elorna.5329:

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Why? Its quite normal not just for MMOs to offer the original game at a discount when they release an expansion. Like say FFXIV which is launching an expansion right now has a bundle too. $50 for the expansion, $60 expansion + core game. Is arenanet’s decision to instead of discounting the game to $10, they discounted it to $0 that makes this shady for you?

Everyone is simply buying the expansion, if the account you apply that expansion too doesnt have the game, it unlocks the core game for you. I dont really see whats shady about that! No one is being cheated out of anything.

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

I prepurchased the expansion without noticing the whole “core game included” clause. I did it because in the 10 years I’ve been Anet’s customer I never once felt like I’m getting a bad deal, and I just flat out trusted the company.

But for the first time in those 10 years I kinda feel cheated now (even though I’m fully aware it was my own fault for not reading through the offer carefully), not because new players are getting more value for their money, but because veteran players are getting treated differently, like we’re something that is a given, instead of a precious resource they should be building upon. I won’t look for a refund, because I doubt I’d even get one, nor will I stop playing, but I’ll definitely look closer next time I buy anything, since Anet stopped being the company I can just trust with my money without a second thought.

This is just false perception. You get exactly the same thing new players get with the only difference they get the core game cheaper cause well its 3 years old now. That has been happening for quite a while now, they had multiple discounts promotions.

nonononono.

no.

that’s NOT what this is.

games get old, prices go down, that’s life.

saying that previous owners of the game CAN’T buy the game at the sale price is a whole different fandango.

every time GW2 was on sale, there was nothing stopping an existing player buying again at the sale price. many did.

but this time, the price decrease is applied only to new players. it’s not the price drop. it’s that the price drop is only on offer to some players, and not others.

Pvp players get the finger…. thy whant us to pay 50€ for a new pvp (more like pve) map, a new trait line and the ability to use 1 “new” weapon. New to the profession but existent in game since it released, nothing actually new to the game.

tks anet, maybe next time…

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Why? Its quite normal not just for MMOs to offer the original game at a discount when they release an expansion. Like say FFXIV which is launching an expansion right now has a bundle too. $50 for the expansion, $60 expansion + core game. Is arenanet’s decision to instead of discounting the game to $10, they discounted it to $0 that makes this shady for you?

Everyone is simply buying the expansion, if the account you apply that expansion too doesnt have the game, it unlocks the core game for you. I dont really see whats shady about that! No one is being cheated out of anything.

It’s the premise. They say $50 for the expansion, and that you get the core game free when you purchase the expansion. Small print: except if you already have the game. So why can’t I also get the core game if it comes free with purchase? Because I already have an account that I’ve paid for. How does that seem in any way fair? Just because I’ve already paid for my account and the content, someone else who hasn’t gets more from purchasing Heart of Thorns.

Like, I have nothing against getting the core game free with HoT purchase, it’s a great way to get new players in which is good. What’s not good is making your veterans feel as if they’re getting the short end of the stick, just because they’ve already happened to purchase your game/support your company.

Skady.5916:

Upvotes on Reddit are no indication.

I myself upvoted that thread too before it blew out of proportion and turned into pure ANet employee abuse – solely because I didn’t approve ninja FAQ change, I had no issues with $50 price tag or character slot issue. People crying about character slot forgot that in GW2 unlike in WoW you can buy character slot with in-game currency. Thus this complaint is absolutely irrelevant. You might as well start crying that they fixing condi cap and “forcing” you to craft sinister ascended set – is it another “money grab”?

Generally speaking this entire story looks disgusting. My opinion is that “community outrage” was instigated and provoked by small group of people. Most likely people from “rival companies” (no name calling here). Its pretty common for the industry.

Its very sad to see how “best MMO community” fell for that trick. Open your eyes people – you are being used in the most blatant way. Opinions you voicing are not yours.

I’m voicing my personal opinion and that of my wife (who is very casual and a borderline noob (sorry dear)) no one speaks for me and I am no one’s puppet. Your assertion that this is a creation of a third party rival corporation is amusing but nothing more.

Gray.9041:

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

I prepurchased the expansion without noticing the whole “core game included” clause. I did it because in the 10 years I’ve been Anet’s customer I never once felt like I’m getting a bad deal, and I just flat out trusted the company.

But for the first time in those 10 years I kinda feel cheated now (even though I’m fully aware it was my own fault for not reading through the offer carefully), not because new players are getting more value for their money, but because veteran players are getting treated differently, like we’re something that is a given, instead of a precious resource they should be building upon. I won’t look for a refund, because I doubt I’d even get one, nor will I stop playing, but I’ll definitely look closer next time I buy anything, since Anet stopped being the company I can just trust with my money without a second thought.

This is just false perception. You get exactly the same thing new players get with the only difference they get the core game cheaper cause well its 3 years old now. That has been happening for quite a while now, they had multiple discounts promotions.

nonononono.

no.

that’s NOT what this is.

games get old, prices go down, that’s life.

saying that previous owners of the game CAN’T buy the game at the sale price is a whole different fandango.

every time GW2 was on sale, there was nothing stopping an existing player buying again at the sale price. many did.

but this time, the price decrease is applied only to new players. it’s not the price drop. it’s that the price drop is only on offer to some players, and not others.

no its not, old players are free to buy it an open a new account too just like they could buy the game on a discount and open a new account. Its exactly the same thing.

Naturally people dont want to do that because obviously they want HoT on their main account but that doesnt mean that ability has been taken away from them. After all when the game was on discount I couldnt buy it and apply it to my main account and get 5 new slots, ability to join 10 guilds etc..

Volrath.1473:

Pvp players get the finger…. thy whant us to pay 50€ for a new pvp (more like pve) map, a new trait line and the ability to use 1 “new” weapon. New to the profession but existent in game since it released, nothing actually new to the game.

tks anet, maybe next time…

Pretty much this. You can add in WvW players in that mix as well. I’m the most active pvp player in my guild and when I’m not there I’m in WvW so even passing on HoT won’t be the worst thing since those 2 modes don’t get much in the xpac anyways.

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Why? Its quite normal not just for MMOs to offer the original game at a discount when they release an expansion. Like say FFXIV which is launching an expansion right now has a bundle too. $50 for the expansion, $60 expansion + core game. Is arenanet’s decision to instead of discounting the game to $10, they discounted it to $0 that makes this shady for you?

Everyone is simply buying the expansion, if the account you apply that expansion too doesnt have the game, it unlocks the core game for you. I dont really see whats shady about that! No one is being cheated out of anything.

Something having value and that value dropping over time as exhibited through various GW2 sales is different from that same product suddenly having no value at all and only being a bonus to some other product. Especially since there was no indication of that happening until it actually happened (the whole FAQ editing as previously mentioned). If I were to compare to another game, I’d compare to Team Fortress 2 – that game has been losing value over time, going on sale multiple times and eventually becoming free. But even when it went completely f2p old customers still got a silly hat as a recognition of their support. Treating old customers exactly the same or worse as newcomers is what has me upset. But luckily for Anet not actually upset enough to quit/ask for my money back, just wary for any future purchase.

Selene.9415:

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Why? Its quite normal not just for MMOs to offer the original game at a discount when they release an expansion. Like say FFXIV which is launching an expansion right now has a bundle too. $50 for the expansion, $60 expansion + core game. Is arenanet’s decision to instead of discounting the game to $10, they discounted it to $0 that makes this shady for you?

Everyone is simply buying the expansion, if the account you apply that expansion too doesnt have the game, it unlocks the core game for you. I dont really see whats shady about that! No one is being cheated out of anything.

It’s the premise. They say $50 for the expansion, and that you get the core game free when you purchase the expansion. Small print: except if you already have the game. So why can’t I also get the core game if it comes free with purchase? Because I already have an account that I’ve paid for. How does that seem in any way fair? Just because I’ve already paid for my account and the content, someone else who hasn’t gets more from purchasing Heart of Thorns.

Like, I have nothing against getting the core game free with HoT purchase, it’s a great way to get new players in which is good. What’s not good is making your veterans feel as if they’re getting the short end of the stick, just because they’ve already happened to purchase your game/support your company.

There is no small print, you can have a free account too, just apply it to a new account and you get the core game for free like everyone else. They dont seperate the two (and its a good idea) because if they how many people do you think would apply hot to their main account and sell the free account at a discount ?

Elorna.5329:

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Why? Its quite normal not just for MMOs to offer the original game at a discount when they release an expansion. Like say FFXIV which is launching an expansion right now has a bundle too. $50 for the expansion, $60 expansion + core game. Is arenanet’s decision to instead of discounting the game to $10, they discounted it to $0 that makes this shady for you?

Everyone is simply buying the expansion, if the account you apply that expansion too doesnt have the game, it unlocks the core game for you. I dont really see whats shady about that! No one is being cheated out of anything.

Something having value and that value dropping over time as exhibited through various GW2 sales is different from that same product suddenly having no value at all and only being a bonus to some other product. Especially since there was no indication of that happening until it actually happened (the whole FAQ editing as previously mentioned). If I were to compare to another game, I’d compare to Team Fortress 2 – that game has been losing value over time, going on sale multiple times and eventually becoming free. But even when it went completely f2p old customers still got a silly hat as a recognition of their support. Treating old customers exactly the same or worse as newcomers is what has me upset. But luckily for Anet not actually upset enough to quit/ask for my money back, just wary for any future purchase.

we dont get a silly hate but we do get beta access / a title + god knows how many free updates between now and the next expansion.

Galen Grey.4709:

Caedmon.6798:

Trajan.4953:

What “community”?

All these forums have become is a cesspool of complaints with obvious agendas. “Bring back Cantha and Elona”, “Why should I have to buy this cool thing with gems” “Nerf this class because it rolled me in WvW” and on and on and on.

A-Net is a company, pure and simple. They have to make money in order to maintain the game, bring you new content, fix bugs and generally keep us amused. Gem store items are a staple of that as well as Character slots, Transfers, and Bank slots.

They gave you 3 seasons of Living World FOR FREE (some bad, some good, some great) as well as a host of QOL things.

$50 is not unreasonable to pay for a game that will guarantee at least 50 hours of content, in a day when the average console game is $60 and gives you 8 hours at best.

Just settle down:)

Why do you compare an mmo to a console game ? If so compare it to an RPG like the witcher which also has 100 – 200h worth of playing if not more with the FREE Dlc being released.Stop acting like anet is constantly giving you kitten for free,everything released is gemstore gemstore gemstore,they didnt release a proper set of gear since day one,Only Gemstore outfits cus they wanna earn money right.

this isnt true. Gear released after day 1 not tied to the cash shop: Asended gear, , truck load of back pieces, mutliple shoulder, gloves, boots and helmets. Glorious + Glorious hero armor set, Radiant Armor set, hellfire armor set, Hexed outfit, Carapace / Bio luminescent armor set, A lot of Champion weapon skins, amberite weapon set, Sunless weapon set, twilight assault weapon set, guild commendation weapon set, Ascended weapon skins, sab and winter weapon skins

to that there are also the Sovereign, aetherized weapons, dragon jade and sclerite weapon set. While they are now exclusively cash shop you could earn them in game through game play for a month or so.

So no Arenanet were never exclusively about the gem shop, they strike a balance. Not a perfect balance mind you but its definitely unfair to state they always only released new skins in the cash shop cause it is far from true.

Caedmon.6798:

You forget the fact that loads of ppl has spend a ton of money on the gemstore making these LS Possible,you thinking you get that kitten for free is you being ignorant.That Free is made possible due to our purchases.I feel betrayed for owning gw2,and anet forcing me to pay again for gw2 + Hot.. yes i truly see it like this.Instead of giving me the chance to buy Hot Stand-alone,if so i would have nothing to complain about.Im not the kind of guy that bends over like that.Greed gets them all in the end.

Just cause people buy stuff from the cash shop it doesnt mean the content was not free. You paid for whatever you bought not the content, simply speaking people who chose never to spend a single cent still got the same content for free which in itself makes it free.

And no arenanet didnt force you to buy the game again together with Hot, Arenanet gave it to you for free, its you who are forcing yourself to see it that way.

They are,i will not be getting another gw2 account so i won’t be getting any gw2 for free,i’m astonished how you think you get gw2 for free while in reality existing players only pay for hot,im not forcing myself to see it this way because It Is this way.Only new players will get the gw2 + Hot while existing payers simply pay for Hot.
And that’s the mistake…if you realize that existing players do not get another gw2 account so they don’t get gw2 for free and have to pay the same price for Hot alone,while new players get gw2 + Hot. They needed to seperate these 2 into a Gw2 + Hot package for new players and a Standalone Hot for existing players,simple.

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Why? Its quite normal not just for MMOs to offer the original game at a discount when they release an expansion. Like say FFXIV which is launching an expansion right now has a bundle too. $50 for the expansion, $60 expansion + core game. Is arenanet’s decision to instead of discounting the game to $10, they discounted it to $0 that makes this shady for you?

Everyone is simply buying the expansion, if the account you apply that expansion too doesnt have the game, it unlocks the core game for you. I dont really see whats shady about that! No one is being cheated out of anything.

Something having value and that value dropping over time as exhibited through various GW2 sales is different from that same product suddenly having no value at all and only being a bonus to some other product. Especially since there was no indication of that happening until it actually happened (the whole FAQ editing as previously mentioned). If I were to compare to another game, I’d compare to Team Fortress 2 – that game has been losing value over time, going on sale multiple times and eventually becoming free. But even when it went completely f2p old customers still got a silly hat as a recognition of their support. Treating old customers exactly the same or worse as newcomers is what has me upset. But luckily for Anet not actually upset enough to quit/ask for my money back, just wary for any future purchase.

we dont get a silly hate but we do get beta access / a title + god knows how many free updates between now and the next expansion.

All things complete newcomers get as well, and the whole reason I’m even participating in this thread, while the silly hat in question was only for the vets. Treating return customers better is not at all uncommon, since companies know that having a loyal customer is something like having a good friend, and you don’t treat that friend the same as someone you met five minutes ago.

Im just wondering what were they working on for these 3 long years. They did not fix the neverending “Zerker Meta”, Endgame is a grindquest for gold unless you’re blessed by the gods of RNG , ASC gear added only more grind… And besides this “Fun stuff” that ppl were complaining about for 2+ years (Grind philosophy) there was LS witch i don’t care so much about… I get a feeling that when in bought GW2 i got myself in to a BETA the changes they implemented over the time were mostly for new players anyways, while ignoring the veterans as would Vayne say “Vocal minority”.

Caedmon.6798:

They are,i will not be getting another gw2 account so i won’t be getting any gw2 for free,i’m astonished how you think you get gw2 for free while in reality existing players only pay for hot,im not forcing myself to see it this way because It Is this way.Only new players will get the gw2 + Hot while existing payers simply pay for Hot.
And that’s the mistake…if you realize that existing players do not get another gw2 account so they don’t get gw2 for free and have to pay the same price for Hot alone,while new players get gw2 + Hot. They needed to seperate these 2 into a Gw2 + Hot package for new players and a Standalone Hot for existing players,simple.

everyone pays just for hot like its been stated a billion times you get Gw2 for free so you’re not paying for it.

what different will it make if they create two packages
1 Gw2+Hot and another standalone HoT?

They will both cost $50 (Gw2 is free for the billionth an 1 time) and they will work exactly the existant package does.

Vayne.8563:

DarkSyze.8627:

Wolfey.3407:

I’m really amused over people complaining over $10 USD
please tell me what you’re going to do with that $10?

Going to go on Steam and buy 2-3 games that you will only play for a week before forgetting about them?

Going to go to starbucks and buy 2 cups of coffee?

Going to the movies and only have 1 lrg popcorn?

You buy games on Steam for value and worth: correct?
You go to the movies and have 1 large popcorn for value and worth: correct?

This is not about pricing, this is about value and worth

You’re absolutely right. It comes down to value and worth. 100 true. Value and worth.

And so far, Anet has not shown that the game is worth $50 to a lot of people, which is absolutely not the same as showing the game is not worth $50. It’s just that there’s so much info we don’t yet have.

No one, not one single person, can honestly say the game isn’t worth $50. All anyone can honestly say is that we don’t have enough information to know.

Which means, for some people they’ve seen enough of value, like me and for some people they haven’t seen enough of value…yet.

That means those people are not obligated to preorder the game and they can wait for more information. What those people can’t say is the game isn’t worth it, because they don’t know.

Technically they haven’t shown the game is worth anything because beyond guild halls they haven’t shown anything.

Edit: I suppose that’s false. They have shown some class specializations. Just none that I’m interested in.

Yeah. I won’t be buying. Maybe ever. Not with how they all but killed Necros. The price-point was the final straw. Will spend my money on Fallout 4.

Galen Grey.4709:

what different will it make if they create two packages
1 Gw2+Hot and another standalone HoT?

They will both cost $50 (Gw2 is free for the billionth an 1 time) and they will work exactly the existant package does.

When they sold Guild Wars 2: they said you can buy this House and some time later you can add a pool to it, but still you will need this House that costs 50$.

Now they are selling Gw2:HoT: if you buy the pool we will throw in a House for free and it will cost you only 50$ you dont need to own a house anymore.

The question is : IF you allready own a house do you need the pool? what has the pool to offer? Maybe it isnt even a pool, just a puddle!!

I love Holden cars and over the past 20 years every 4 years I trade in my Holden on the latest model. When I arrive at the dealership they don’t meet me with arms outstretched and roll out the red carpet because I am a veteran Holden owner. I don’t get offered special deals and bags of freebies I get the Holden car at the best price I am able to bargain them down to. The fact this next Holden will be my 6th makes me as a customer walking through their doors no more important than the guy walking in to buy his first one.

The 3 packs are what they are, some don’t feel they have value and others were more than happy to quickly purchase them. All of us see value in a different light and for me 3-4k hours of play time for a lousy hundred bucks is good value. I don’t care what is offered to also sweeten the deal for the newbies as I see that as value for me too because new players means more people to play with.

All this complaining in truth is all about some people feeling they are not getting enough value for their dollars. This is obvious in the repeated comments about the cheapest pack not coming with a char slot included etc. IF the value isnt there for you now then Im sure down the track when its offered cheaper it will make you smile By then Im sure I will have already blown through all the new content and be sitting back looking for a new game to play while I wait for GW2 to release another expac

maddoctor.2738:

Exactly. We need to know:
a) what “Challenging Group Content” means (something instanced for guilds I hope)

I mostly agree with everything you said but not this. Since I’m in a small guild I’m already locked out of guild missions and I don’t want to be locked out of more content because I’m not in a big zerg guild.

I shouldn’t have to join an entirely new guild just experience content that I’m paying the same price for as people who are in bigger guilds.

Challenging group content. Sure. Challenging group content locked to guilds. Nope.

Yes I could join a big guild if I wanted but why should I have to just to experience “group content”? Being in a bigger guild doesn’t make me a better/worse player to not deserve to experience it.

Dave.6819:

to people that think devs deserve respect and we arent treatin em well, i say this :

http://i.imgur.com/1h0wSaL.png

for now its not about money. hell, not even about lack of content or whatever. its just about greed and having no respect for players. thats the main reason.

picture above should tell you to buy HoT or not if you are a decent person. and overall.. im just afraid Anet will become same like NCsoft. that company totally ruined Aion. greed greed greed. thats what destroyed that game. so i just honestly hope Anet wont become the same as those guys. i feel bad for those devs that truly worked their kitten off on the update.. and now some guy just tagged the prices and caused all this drama. :/ gl devs. you are still great and we love you. just not those that set the prices and do all these dirty things.

PS – enjoy again

http://i.imgur.com/1h0wSaL.png

Unbalanced factions (elyos almost always heavily outnumbered asmodians on most servers) and an extremely grindy and a punishing crafting system is what killed Aion. Not greed.

And since it is a pvp centric game that meant one side got stronger easier which tilted the faction balance even more and so on. That’s why they had and still have Amodian call to arms.

Also they had no cash shop until it went f2p, and even then the cash shop in Aion mostly features only cosmetic items.

Anyone who played that game at release knows that.

Galen Grey.4709:

Gray.9041:

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

I prepurchased the expansion without noticing the whole “core game included” clause. I did it because in the 10 years I’ve been Anet’s customer I never once felt like I’m getting a bad deal, and I just flat out trusted the company.

But for the first time in those 10 years I kinda feel cheated now (even though I’m fully aware it was my own fault for not reading through the offer carefully), not because new players are getting more value for their money, but because veteran players are getting treated differently, like we’re something that is a given, instead of a precious resource they should be building upon. I won’t look for a refund, because I doubt I’d even get one, nor will I stop playing, but I’ll definitely look closer next time I buy anything, since Anet stopped being the company I can just trust with my money without a second thought.

This is just false perception. You get exactly the same thing new players get with the only difference they get the core game cheaper cause well its 3 years old now. That has been happening for quite a while now, they had multiple discounts promotions.

nonononono.

no.

that’s NOT what this is.

games get old, prices go down, that’s life.

saying that previous owners of the game CAN’T buy the game at the sale price is a whole different fandango.

every time GW2 was on sale, there was nothing stopping an existing player buying again at the sale price. many did.

but this time, the price decrease is applied only to new players. it’s not the price drop. it’s that the price drop is only on offer to some players, and not others.

no its not, old players are free to buy it an open a new account too just like they could buy the game on a discount and open a new account. Its exactly the same thing.

Naturally people dont want to do that because obviously they want HoT on their main account but that doesnt mean that ability has been taken away from them. After all when the game was on discount I couldnt buy it and apply it to my main account and get 5 new slots, ability to join 10 guilds etc..

well obviously. the base game isn’t an Expansion. the base game and the expansion should be separate. if they’re not, then they’re lying to me. they claim to be offering the expansion with a free copy of the core game, but they’re actually offering me a choice between an expansion and a standalone. and if that’s true, that makes their FAQ troubles a whole lot worse.

Isn’t that funny? By definition, expansion means to expand on the original. Yet, adding the core game to the ‘expansion’ has muddied the water like nobody’s business.

Vayne.8563:

That has nothing to do with what I said. What I said was no one can say, at this point, without knowing everything we’re getting, that something won’t be worth it to them.

I believe I can. Nothing I’ve seen yet is of particular interest to me. Not the elite specializations (dragonhunter = ha ha ha), not the gliding, not the mushrooms, not the layer cake maps, not the recycling day/night event stuff. Not the guild hall stuff. Not even the revenant.

If the lowest tier was $20 bucks with a character slot, yeah, I’d try a revenant. Hell, even if it was $30, I’d still consider it. $50? Pfft.

What do you suspect they may have kept hidden from us, that will make this thing worth the price(s) being asked?

Alvagon.8710:

Galen Grey.4709:

what different will it make if they create two packages
1 Gw2+Hot and another standalone HoT?

They will both cost $50 (Gw2 is free for the billionth an 1 time) and they will work exactly the existant package does.

When they sold Guild Wars 2: they said you can buy this House and some time later you can add a pool to it, but still you will need this House that costs 50$.

Now they are selling Gw2:HoT: if you buy the pool we will throw in a House for free and it will cost you only 50$ you dont need to own a house anymore.

The question is : IF you allready own a house do you need the pool? what has the pool to offer? Maybe it isnt even a pool, just a puddle!!

They said no such thing, up until january this year we didnt even know there was going to be a pool.

Since people bought their $50 house, that same house has been selling for much lower, even as low as $10.

now yes in january, 2 1/2 years since people bought their house they said surprise we’ll soon start selling a pool you can add to your house and yes they did say you will need a house for your pool (naturally)

now a couple of days ago they said you know what we really want you to buy our nifty pool so if you dont own a house we’re going to give it to you for free. If you bought the house recently we’re going to refund you the price you paid and all you need to do is pay for the pool.

I dont see where the problem lies exactly!

if you bought the house long long ago you had plenty of time to enjoy your house.

if you bought the house recently you get the price you paid for the house refunded provided you buy the pool

I dont see why people who bought the house long ago should be angry people who buy the pool right now get the house for free when they never had a problem with people getting the house for $10. how is it any different beyond they’re getting a larger discount?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Isn’t that funny? By definition, expansion means to expand on the original. Yet, adding the core game to the ‘expansion’ has muddied the water like nobody’s business.

The expansion is still “expanding” the core game, nothing has changed there. What did this muddy exactly?

Lets say they never did any of this

- Veterans would pay $50 and get the expansion added to the core game
- New players who bought the game recently would pay $50 and get the expansion added to the core game they bought recently most likely for $10
- Players who don’t own will likely pass or wait until there is another discount and buy the game + expansion together or seperately.

With what Arenanet did now we get
- Veterans will pay $50 and get the expansion added to the core game
- New players who bought the game recently would pay $50 and get the expansion added to the core game and have the amount they paid for the game refunded
- Players who don’t own either will likely pass but a few might be persuaded this is actually a good deal, but the expansion apply it to their account which will unlock the core game and expand it to include HoT

Esentially with this move everyone is technically better off, yes everyone… New players get to save money. Veteran players get more players to play with + more money arenanet makes is more money they can re-invest in the game which in turns means more / better content.

but now get to throw all that away because some people seem to have issue with other people saving a little bit of money.

Yea.. ill be dropping 50 dollars on the expansion.

I think a better solution to all of this is to just use it as a way of culling the herd. The people whining about HoT at the existing price points don’t deserve to have it, and I’ll be happier playing in the new maps without them around.

Ohoni.6057:

I think a better solution to all of this is to just use it as a way of culling the herd. The people whining about HoT at the existing price points don’t deserve to have it, and I’ll be happier playing in the new maps without them around.

I would safely bet that a chunk of these people saying they would ‘never’ buy the pre-sale have already done just that.

Galen Grey.4709:

but now get to throw all that away because some people seem to have issue with other people saving a little bit of money.

(I know that talking to white knights is as usual in vain but …)

$50 for HoT is just too much for the expansion which is in best just small content update compared to the others on the market. Especially so as I’m pretty sure that we will see a price drop (or real upgrade pack) soon after real release. This is just kitten whale money grab move, simple as that.

Ohoni.6057:

I think a better solution to all of this is to just use it as a way of culling the herd. The people whining about HoT at the existing price points don’t deserve to have it, and I’ll be happier playing in the new maps without them around.

My thoughts exactly only in reverse. I’ll take vanilla you take HoT

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Why? Its quite normal not just for MMOs to offer the original game at a discount when they release an expansion. Like say FFXIV which is launching an expansion right now has a bundle too. $50 for the expansion, $60 expansion + core game. Is arenanet’s decision to instead of discounting the game to $10, they discounted it to $0 that makes this shady for you?

Everyone is simply buying the expansion, if the account you apply that expansion too doesnt have the game, it unlocks the core game for you. I dont really see whats shady about that! No one is being cheated out of anything.

incorrect information presented

ffxiv presents a 60 dollar new player option

but the upgrade for ffxiv is 40.00 not 50 dollars
if the expansion followed the same model, GW2 would not be in this mess at all.

1)people would have felt the price was better
2) they would not have had to change the faq or give refunds based on it
3) they would not be selling two different products to the same players based on if they played the game or not.
4)many of the people who want charachter slot for 50 would have been getting the same value.

so yeah your snafu in what FFXIV offers basically covers how a small difference in marketing makes a big difference in how your product is percieved. It also shows what is accepted when practice when it comes to expansions.

I won’t buy it either.
It’s too expensive for just an addon. They already created all the necessary tools for the core game, so all they had to do now was start up their editors and create a few new maps, a new class and that’s it.
Still remember the old days where addons cost about 50% of a full game, 20-25€ – which would be a fair price.
Besides I only play on the weekends and started so only about 2 1/2 months ago => Neither do I have a level 80 character nor do I know which class to main, yet…

Ohoni.6057:

I think a better solution to all of this is to just use it as a way of culling the herd.

Before one can sit upon a high horse, one must have not only a horse, but a horse of sufficient height to qualify as high. Since GW2 has no horses, high or otherwise, upon which to sit, attempts to sit upon one tend to produce unnatural movements which might, in some societies, be construed as interpretive dance, and in others, as an immediate and undeniable urge to find the nearest restroom.

Ohoni.6057:

The people whining about HoT at the existing price points don’t deserve to have it, and I’ll be happier playing in the new maps without them around.

The people willing to pay more for less deserve what they get. Gratz.

but the upgrade for ffxiv is 40.00 not 50 dollars
if the expansion followed the same model, GW2 would not be in this mess at all.

But then the following month you have to pay them $10 more dollars, so it’s back up to $50. Then the next month it’s $60, and so on. Honestly, trying to say that GW2 should have the same price for their expansion as a game with a monthly fee is just complete nonsense. At this point I kind of wish that they were offering a $40 version, BUT it comes with the same monthly fee attached as FF14, so if you buy that version, and stop paying them $10 each month, you’re locked out of the HoT content.

Galen Grey.4709:

Alvagon.8710:

Galen Grey.4709:

what different will it make if they create two packages
1 Gw2+Hot and another standalone HoT?

They will both cost $50 (Gw2 is free for the billionth an 1 time) and they will work exactly the existant package does.

When they sold Guild Wars 2: they said you can buy this House and some time later you can add a pool to it, but still you will need this House that costs 50$.

Now they are selling Gw2:HoT: if you buy the pool we will throw in a House for free and it will cost you only 50$ you dont need to own a house anymore.

The question is : IF you allready own a house do you need the pool? what has the pool to offer? Maybe it isnt even a pool, just a puddle!!

They said no such thing, up until january this year we didnt even know there was going to be a pool.

Since people bought their $50 house, that same house has been selling for much lower, even as low as $10.

now yes in january, 2 1/2 years since people bought their house they said surprise we’ll soon start selling a pool you can add to your house and yes they did say you will need a house for your pool (naturally)

now a couple of days ago they said you know what we really want you to buy our nifty pool so if you dont own a house we’re going to give it to you for free. If you bought the house recently we’re going to refund you the price you paid and all you need to do is pay for the pool.

I dont see where the problem lies exactly!

if you bought the house long long ago you had plenty of time to enjoy your house.

if you bought the house recently you get the price you paid for the house refunded provided you buy the pool

I dont see why people who bought the house long ago should be angry people who buy the pool right now get the house for free when they never had a problem with people getting the house for $10. how is it any different beyond they’re getting a larger discount?

people always make this about past purchases

its about the fact that you cant get the same deal.

basically they have a deal which says, buy a pizza get one free

but in fact its only buy a pizza get one free, if you havent ever bought a pizza from us.

thats the point. for the same money right now, you dont get the same value.

And the whole thing is marketing speak anyhow.
in order to claim they are giving you something free, it has to be separateable, you are not getting “Free” batteries with your remote, if the batteries are fused to the remote and cannot be removed.
the batteries and the remote are one product.

just because they say something in marketing speak doesnt make it reality,

Ohoni.6057:

but the upgrade for ffxiv is 40.00 not 50 dollars
if the expansion followed the same model, GW2 would not be in this mess at all.

But then the following month you have to pay them $10 more dollars, so it’s back up to $50. Then the next month it’s $60, and so on. Honestly, trying to say that GW2 should have the same price for their expansion as a game with a monthly fee is just complete nonsense. At this point I kind of wish that they were offering a $40 version, BUT it comes with the same monthly fee attached as FF14, so if you buy that version, and stop paying them $10 each month, you’re locked out of the HoT content.

subs have nothing to do with anything

the sub is a different aspect of the monetary policy.

what you pay a sub for, is not having an intrusive gem store, or a game designed around having a gem store.

we can compare it to swtor if you want, their expansion was 20 bucks, or we can compare it to Tera whose expansion was free, or Blade and soul in korea, with a free expansion.

but we all know that part of the reason gw2 is b2p is supposed to be having a less intrusive gem store, between a sub and regular f2p game.

anyhow, what you really wish is that gw2 fails because gw2 could not charge a sub with their current gem shop.

but be assured, there are a number of people who have said they wish they could in fact pay a sub for gw2 IF it meant there was no gem shop/gem shop design based descions, anet did not choose to go that route Because they feel gem store is a more profitable business model.

Ohoni.6057:

but the upgrade for ffxiv is 40.00 not 50 dollars
if the expansion followed the same model, GW2 would not be in this mess at all.

But then the following month you have to pay them $10 more dollars, so it’s back up to $50. Then the next month it’s $60, and so on. Honestly, trying to say that GW2 should have the same price for their expansion as a game with a monthly fee is just complete nonsense. At this point I kind of wish that they were offering a $40 version, BUT it comes with the same monthly fee attached as FF14, so if you buy that version, and stop paying them $10 each month, you’re locked out of the HoT content.

also, not to get distracted, but its irrelevant.
the fact is if they had priced it like FFXIV

• they still would have a package that is marketable and a good deal for newbies
• they would have not been giving different customers different service based on who they are
• they would not have had to refund players, or seem like they made a money grab
• would have less people complaining about content vs cost
• would not have this negative press and controversy

sub or not, they should have used a similar marketing strategy

Came in here to chime my opinion. Recently saw the $50 price point that comes with the full regular game and I facepalmed because that was the cheapest version…which is a rip-off to people who already have the regular game. There SHOULD be a cheaper version that’s $30 that’s just the expansion itself. I’d throw my money at that without hesitation.

Or if they made it so if you buy the $50 version and already have the regular game, you get $20 worth of gems. Those two options alone would fix the complaints with this I believe.

subs have nothing to do with anything

the sub is a different aspect of the monetary policy.

what you pay a sub for, is not having an intrusive gem store, or a game designed around having a gem store.

Subs definitely do have everything to do with it IF you insist on comparing a subscription game to a B2P one. With FF14, they could charge very little on the expansion, because they know that they will definitely make $50 off of each current player off sub fees alone. With GW2, they have no sub fees, so while they might get some additional money off of some players after purchase, they can’t bet on that, and their box purchase price needs to reflect that. Yes, they have the gem store, but they can’t count on every player buying into the gem store, their pricing model is more reliant on box sales than on sub sales, even if it’s not entirely reliant on them.

You cannot compare the price of a GW2 expansion to a WoW or FF14 expansion UNLESS you also factor in the monthly fees. To do otherwise would render the comparison meaningless.

we can compare it to swtor if you want, their expansion was 20 bucks, or we can compare it to Tera whose expansion was free, or Blade and soul in korea, with a free expansion.

GW2 has released numerous “free expansions” over the years. This is their first paid one, and the price they’re charging is a reasonable one compared to other games on the market. The $20 TOR “expansion” you talk about is a joke. NO new classes or races, just a few new combat zones. That is equivalent to GW2’s free Season 2 content, not to HoT.

but be assured, there are a number of people who have said they wish they could in fact pay a sub for gw2 IF it meant there was no gem shop/gem shop design based descions, anet did not choose to go that route Because they feel gem store is a more profitable business model.

GW2 would have failed miserably with a subscription model. It would have been Wildstar in advance.

Came in here to chime my opinion. Recently saw the $50 price point that comes with the full regular game and I facepalmed because that was the cheapest version…which is a rip-off to people who already have the regular game. There SHOULD be a cheaper version that’s $30 that’s just the expansion itself. I’d throw my money at that without hesitation.

No. $50 is the retail cost. It’s not “$30 + the cost of the original game,” It’s "$50 AND you get the original game free with purchase. They can remove the option of getting the original game, but lowering the price is not a factor in that. Why is this so very very hard for people to understand?

You can’t go into a restaurant and say "I see that the steak costs $20. Now I don’t want to pay $20. but I see that it comes with a free side, and if I ordered that side separately it would cost $2. So here’s what you’re going to do, because you owe me, you’re going to give me just the steak, and I’m only going to pay you $18, because I’m entitled to the deal that I want, not the deal that you offered.

No, it does not work that way. The customer is always right, unless he’s not. In this case, the customer is most certainly not.

Or if they made it so if you buy the $50 version and already have the regular game, you get $20 worth of gems. Those two options alone would fix the complaints with this I believe.

Sure, but how could they do that WITHOUT giving everyone $20 free that they are not owed? “Oh, they should just give us a ton of free stuff that we are in no way owed, that would solve the problem.” Yeah, I’m sure it would.

Did not Guild Wars traditionally sell for 40—50 bucks more then 10 years ago? I think folks are going overboard with this, they’ll rather shut down Arena Net instead of forking over $50.00. It’s like a herd mentality with all these people up in arms over a lousy $50.00.

If there was something I could not afford I would simply leave it alone use what I have and move on. Not go to some forum and bad mouth a company constantly hoping they’ll change their mind, that’s just being manipulative and bitter.

Ohoni.6057:

subs have nothing to do with anything

the sub is a different aspect of the monetary policy.

what you pay a sub for, is not having an intrusive gem store, or a game designed around having a gem store.

Subs definitely do have everything to do with it IF you insist on comparing a subscription game to a B2P one. With FF14, they could charge very little on the expansion, because they know that they will definitely make $50 off of each current player off sub fees alone. With GW2, they have no sub fees, so while they might get some additional money off of some players after purchase, they can’t bet on that, and their box purchase price needs to reflect that. Yes, they have the gem store, but they can’t count on every player buying into the gem store, their pricing model is more reliant on box sales than on sub sales, even if it’s not entirely reliant on them.

You cannot compare the price of a GW2 expansion to a WoW or FF14 expansion UNLESS you also factor in the monthly fees. To do otherwise would render the comparison meaningless.

we can compare it to swtor if you want, their expansion was 20 bucks, or we can compare it to Tera whose expansion was free, or Blade and soul in korea, with a free expansion.

GW2 has released numerous “free expansions” over the years. This is their first paid one, and the price they’re charging is a reasonable one compared to other games on the market. The $20 TOR “expansion” you talk about is a joke. NO new classes or races, just a few new combat zones. That is equivalent to GW2’s free Season 2 content, not to HoT.

but be assured, there are a number of people who have said they wish they could in fact pay a sub for gw2 IF it meant there was no gem shop/gem shop design based descions, anet did not choose to go that route Because they feel gem store is a more profitable business model.

GW2 would have failed miserably with a subscription model. It would have been Wildstar in advance.

Came in here to chime my opinion. Recently saw the $50 price point that comes with the full regular game and I facepalmed because that was the cheapest version…which is a rip-off to people who already have the regular game. There SHOULD be a cheaper version that’s $30 that’s just the expansion itself. I’d throw my money at that without hesitation.

No. $50 is the retail cost. It’s not “$30 + the cost of the original game,” It’s "$50 AND you get the original game free with purchase. They can remove the option of getting the original game, but lowering the price is not a factor in that. Why is this so very very hard for people to understand?

You can’t go into a restaurant and say "I see that the steak costs $20. Now I don’t want to pay $20. but I see that it comes with a free side, and if I ordered that side separately it would cost $2. So here’s what you’re going to do, because you owe me, you’re going to give me just the steak, and I’m only going to pay you $18, because I’m entitled to the deal that I want, not the deal that you offered.

No, it does not work that way. The customer is always right, unless he’s not. In this case, the customer is most certainly not.

Or if they made it so if you buy the $50 version and already have the regular game, you get $20 worth of gems. Those two options alone would fix the complaints with this I believe.

Sure, but how could they do that WITHOUT giving everyone $20 free that they are not owed? “Oh, they should just give us a ton of free stuff that we are in no way owed, that would solve the problem.” Yeah, I’m sure it would.

gw2 made more money off gem store sales than most games made off subs last year

as you point out gw2 would have failed with a sub

so its fairly odd to see how you think that charging a sub, which from your own words(and current market trends), is not more profitable, should somehow mean they can charge more for the game to recoup losses, that are apparently profits.

let me simplify

• gw2 makes more money from gem store than having a sub
• therefore they do not need to charge more for a box price to recoup losses

People still seem to not understand this basic term.

1) U are NOT paying for the core game again, There is no second Key, the game itself as been decided to be of 0 Value due to it being out of date, they dont feel the need to attach a price to the game on any level currently due to this factor. Out of Date things are Over, they are no longer WORTH anything… Nobody goes out and buys a Flip phone BEFORE they invest in a Sony Z3, it isnt done.

2) The Expansion was going to be priced at $50 With or WITHOUT the base game going free, this hasnt made a single different to actual pricing of the expansion you would STILL pay the price with or without core game.

3) This expansion is JUST as big if not bigger then Expansion releases in WoW and Any other MMO on the market and its priced at the exact same price as any of those games, you people just dont seem to take that into account, its a Competitive price for the MMO Price range, its Perfectly NORMAL to pay those sorts of pricing for expansion.

4) The game has 0 Subscription Model, 0 required Micro-transactions and No forced Investment into gameplay outside of the Base game Pricing which is now HoT Pricing, how can u honestly beleive the expansion SHOULD be cheap?…. The Expansion Costs are there only Solid forced income they cannot AFFORD to give you that cheap…. Thats the ENTIRE point of a B2P Game!!

5) If you have this much problem paying anything due to Either beleiving u should seriously be playing this game for nothing.. and Somehow ANet have no need for Money or income for their business u might want to consider quitting gaming all together…. Games are expensive, if ur not willing to keep up with that factor ur going to fall behind in anything you do.

Any game with a Inital box/Digital purchase will charge u £34 ($50) or more everytime, thats how it works unless u wait for sales on the expansion once its released and getting old you Just are NEVER going to see Expansions sell that cheap in a American MMO or game.

phys.7689:

Ohoni.6057:

subs have nothing to do with anything

the sub is a different aspect of the monetary policy.

what you pay a sub for, is not having an intrusive gem store, or a game designed around having a gem store.

Subs definitely do have everything to do with it IF you insist on comparing a subscription game to a B2P one. With FF14, they could charge very little on the expansion, because they know that they will definitely make $50 off of each current player off sub fees alone. With GW2, they have no sub fees, so while they might get some additional money off of some players after purchase, they can’t bet on that, and their box purchase price needs to reflect that. Yes, they have the gem store, but they can’t count on every player buying into the gem store, their pricing model is more reliant on box sales than on sub sales, even if it’s not entirely reliant on them.

You cannot compare the price of a GW2 expansion to a WoW or FF14 expansion UNLESS you also factor in the monthly fees. To do otherwise would render the comparison meaningless.

we can compare it to swtor if you want, their expansion was 20 bucks, or we can compare it to Tera whose expansion was free, or Blade and soul in korea, with a free expansion.

GW2 has released numerous “free expansions” over the years. This is their first paid one, and the price they’re charging is a reasonable one compared to other games on the market. The $20 TOR “expansion” you talk about is a joke. NO new classes or races, just a few new combat zones. That is equivalent to GW2’s free Season 2 content, not to HoT.

but be assured, there are a number of people who have said they wish they could in fact pay a sub for gw2 IF it meant there was no gem shop/gem shop design based descions, anet did not choose to go that route Because they feel gem store is a more profitable business model.

GW2 would have failed miserably with a subscription model. It would have been Wildstar in advance.

Came in here to chime my opinion. Recently saw the $50 price point that comes with the full regular game and I facepalmed because that was the cheapest version…which is a rip-off to people who already have the regular game. There SHOULD be a cheaper version that’s $30 that’s just the expansion itself. I’d throw my money at that without hesitation.

No. $50 is the retail cost. It’s not “$30 + the cost of the original game,” It’s "$50 AND you get the original game free with purchase. They can remove the option of getting the original game, but lowering the price is not a factor in that. Why is this so very very hard for people to understand?

You can’t go into a restaurant and say "I see that the steak costs $20. Now I don’t want to pay $20. but I see that it comes with a free side, and if I ordered that side separately it would cost $2. So here’s what you’re going to do, because you owe me, you’re going to give me just the steak, and I’m only going to pay you $18, because I’m entitled to the deal that I want, not the deal that you offered.

No, it does not work that way. The customer is always right, unless he’s not. In this case, the customer is most certainly not.

Or if they made it so if you buy the $50 version and already have the regular game, you get $20 worth of gems. Those two options alone would fix the complaints with this I believe.

Sure, but how could they do that WITHOUT giving everyone $20 free that they are not owed? “Oh, they should just give us a ton of free stuff that we are in no way owed, that would solve the problem.” Yeah, I’m sure it would.

gw2 made more money off gem store sales than most games made off subs last year

as you point out gw2 would have failed with a sub

so its fairly odd to see how you think that charging a sub, which from your own words(and current market trends), is not more profitable, should somehow mean they can charge more for the game to recoup losses, that are apparently profits.

let me simplify

• gw2 makes more money from gem store than having a sub
• therefore they do not need to charge more for a box price to recoup losses

Guild wars do NOT make as much money from Gem Store as they do any other F2P/B2P because they of the fact they sacrificed that factor by putting NO Micro-transactions into it, No Cash shop Spam Releases of Outfits etc etc, Not having Mounts in the game and ALLOWING you to convert your gold to gems, They make up for the fact they allow players to choose to just never spend a Dime in the Gem Shop by their Expansion Releases.

they DO NEED the expansion release incomes, thats just factual… to claim they dont is stupid.