Elite Specializations & Hero Point Feedback [Merged]

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Posted by: Nubu.6148

Nubu.6148

As WvW player you have to play 45 days 2 hours per day to unlock the elite ……….
That means if you have about 5 chars , ive to play about 225 day 2 hours per day ………

Cmon anet pls.

Nubú -Engie -Asura-
BNF-Bitte nicht füttern-
Smallscale <3 !

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

Having to play a large portion of the new content with your old spec of the last three years is absurd.

If you’ve completed all the hero challenges in the world, you likely will be able to use the elite specialization very early on. Assuming a similar setup to the existing specializations, you should be able to unlock most or all of the traits with just those points. You should then be able to unlock the remaining traits and skills within the first map by completing the new hero challenges, assuming they’re evenly distributed.

If this were any other MMO, you’d have to wait to the level cap to fully utilize your new build. Oddly however, at least in other MMOs you can play with the new skills as you level, without punishing yourself.

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Posted by: Sytherek.7689

Sytherek.7689

Mechanics are not content.

Places to see, adventures to have, that is content.

We are not asking for any freebies.

We are asking that, if we’ve done the world completion effort, that we be able to play the expansion content with expansion skills and traits.

No freebies, just recognition of our efforts. Don’t devalue the main game into nothing more than newbies and level grinding.

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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

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Posted by: Lucifers Heaven.2167

Lucifers Heaven.2167

“our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards”

They don’t say every way will be equally difficult, just that the most powerful rewards will be obtainable. Obtainable.
Whether you are playing PvP, PvE or WvW you will be able to unlock elite specialisations through rewards from your chosen section. That is what that oft quoted and usually misunderstood “play your own way” comment is about.

It was also, I believe, used in relation to being able to play the classes how you want. Each class can adequately fill the general roles. You can play a light armour wearing elementalist as a tank and a heavy armour wearing warrior as a glass cannon. Sure they have proclivities leaning them in certain directions (a warrior glass cannon is likely to be hardier than an elementalist glass canon thanks to heavy armour), but they can all do them at least fairly well with their own flavour.

But as far as I know, the quote was never meant as “dilly dally with whatever you want to do and we’ll give you everything in game”, which seems to be what a lot of people imply or say it means.

(PS – for anyone who complains about being forced into certain activities to get legendaries, the quote specifies the “most powerful rewards”, and legendaries are not a power gain over ascended)

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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

GG for buying a game that required you to.. wait for it… play the game.

Maybe because (drumroll) this was sold as a ‘play your own way’ game and good for casual players, like RPers?

Did RPers get level 80 by just logging in the game and map chat or /emote in Divinity’s Reach ?

Yeah, you didn’t know about the /levelup emote? LOL!

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

We’re just tired of the goal post, constantly moving. “Oh hey, I saved up 100g for that shiny new precursor!” Economy Change! Precursors now 1000g!! “Oh wow, it took awhile, but I finally got that map completion, and all the hero pts!” Screw You, DO MOAR! :’(

Its just disheartening. We were under the impression that veteran players would already have enough pts, if they did map completion. Now, it just feels like a punishment, more than some excuse to play more. As if we wouldn’t play as much… We just want to play the content, in our elite spec.

The goal post NEVER moved. Someone datamined some stuff, and everyone took it as gospel. When did Anet ever change the goal post on this?

In fact, by giving us 10 points for every hero point in HoT, they’ve made it very easy to level up your elite specialization.

They didn’t plant the goal post until now so it comes off as being intentionally shady.

Well that’s great for people who like pve… Buy hey look, you can level up 400 times per character in wvw right?

Always remember vayne, you can always measure success by asking yourself “is it fun?”. For many players this will not be considered a success story filled with “fun”.

Also, I guarantee the percentage of map completion/achievement “stuffz” vs the amount of lvl 80 characters in the data base is extremely low. Why? Because it’s human nature to want to do fun activities and map stuff is not fun stuff. I’m pretty sure there a a hundred or so players who really really love to visit the same vista a billion times, but for most, anything map related is chore done out of need, not desire.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: Heibi.4251

Heibi.4251

I think everything should be unlocked when we hit 80 and we should have the best statistical gear by then. Grinding should be left to cosmetics. Good idea???

Actually, the basic class unlocks nearly everything at 80. We’re talking ELITE specialization. It’s suppose to be badkitten. You don’t get a legendary handed to you at 80, neither should you get an Elite Specialization handed to you. I find it much more satisfying to get something I’ve worked for.

Take my main as an example: 80th level ranger. I have 214 points currently after unlocking all my regular class traits and skills. I am going to be able to unlock the elite and only some of the traits and skills. I’ll also have to look for the new pets. I WANT the new pets. But I don’t want them handed to me. Half the fun of MMORPG is the hunt. I also want the gliding and other masteries(or whatever they’re called). I’ll use my player skills to efficiently work for them. I won’t consider them a grind due to the reward at the end.

Just relax and enjoy the game. Play at your own pace. Please eat properly, get a little sleep and do your homework(if you have any). For you older peeps, don’t drink so much that you forget what you just accomplished and how you did it.

Leader of Central Anime(CA)
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi

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Posted by: DoctorDing.5890

DoctorDing.5890

My suggestion: Calm down and wait to see what the expansion is REALLY like.
In two days time you will have more facts to support whatever it is you want to complain about. ;p

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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

Masteries are like new weapons in Zelda. You know there is this rock you can see from the whole beginning but can’t get through till you get the bombs to explode it. Your first toon won’t have the bombs at start so there will be some gated locations in the first zone you can’t access. When you get the right mastery then all your account will get it so when you enter the first zone with the second toon, the number of HP available will be much bigger because there will be no gates anymore. So in the end the more your account masteries grow, the quicker it will be to unlock Espec on alts.

When you leveled your first character in the game there were no tomes available, no lvl 20 scrolls. You may have seen nice lvl 80 builds on the web, they were simply not available until you were lvl 80. So to rephrase other complains, you had to “finish” the content before playing your dream build. There is still no way to discover the tutorial zone with the build you want to play. And if you level in an old fashion way, you are still gated until level 71 minimum to play the exact build you want. Chances are you won’t reclaim Claw Island with this build. The difference in the expansion is that you’ll be able to replay the story missions…

Maybe the number of tomes in the game is too high so people now don’t understand character progression anymore, they just want to double click.

Gated content is a way of saying : we don’t really have that much content, so we have to make you jump through all these hoops to get to whatever little we have.

What about WvW? If a WvW player has multiple characters should they grind 200 ranks per character just to fully unlock espec for it?

With regards to tomes – I have leveled all my characters from scratch. Level 20 scroll was used a couple of times mainly to get rid of them (until I realized that that’s not feasible and started piling them up again). Most often I level my characters without buying them a single piece of equipment (they do get 15 slot bags) until 80. I enjoy doing this. But I am a minority, and even I will not enjoy grinding out HPs for especs. How many people will enjoy grinding out same content 3 times in a row (to make their characters competitive)? How about 5? 10? 20? 60? Some people do have a lot of alts and especs are often too good not to have.

Gated content with expansions isn’t new to gw2, it exists in very nearly every mmorpg in existence. There may be an exception or two, but it is by far the norm.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

We’re just tired of the goal post, constantly moving. “Oh hey, I saved up 100g for that shiny new precursor!” Economy Change! Precursors now 1000g!! “Oh wow, it took awhile, but I finally got that map completion, and all the hero pts!” Screw You, DO MOAR! :’(

Its just disheartening. We were under the impression that veteran players would already have enough pts, if they did map completion. Now, it just feels like a punishment, more than some excuse to play more. As if we wouldn’t play as much… We just want to play the content, in our elite spec.

The goal post NEVER moved. Someone datamined some stuff, and everyone took it as gospel. When did Anet ever change the goal post on this?

In fact, by giving us 10 points for every hero point in HoT, they’ve made it very easy to level up your elite specialization.

They didn’t plant the goal post until now so it comes off as being intentionally shady.

Well that’s great for people who like pve… Buy hey look, you can level up 400 times per character in wvw right?

Always remember vayne, you can always measure success by asking yourself “is it fun?”. For many players this will not be considered a success story filled with “fun”.

They also didn’t tell people until recently that you could get this playing WvW or that the hero points in HoT would give you 10 points each and there’s enough of them to give you your entire spec. That’s pretty generous. 40 hero point challenges in HoT is a lot less than 400 in the open world.

I don’t think anyone expected that.

And let’s not forget, some of that is skins, not skills. You don’t even need all 400 to get you entire usable spec unlocked.

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Posted by: DavyMcB.1603

DavyMcB.1603

How about stop complaining about people complaining about their own complaints? It’s not like the complaints or the lack thereof are going to make any difference.

i find self-appointed opinion police like this thread much more annoying than the complaint threads.

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Posted by: Zania.8461

Zania.8461

Gated content with expansions isn’t new to gw2, it exists in very nearly every mmorpg in existence. There may be an exception or two, but it is by far the norm.

So is trinity, gear grinds and expansions invalidating the entirety of previous progress. I did have a hope that GW2 was trying to break the mold. Original GW2 had very little gated content. Explorable dungeon modes are gated by story and fractals are gated by progress (can be bypassed by other party member) and soft gated by agony. Original design for utilities and traits provided a very easy way of bypassing bad traits and utilities, allowing you to concentrate on playing your class how you wanted. It also showered you with skill points. NPE fixed it by making bad skills mandatory and progression linear, however it still gave you all necessary HPs by leveling + a bit extra as a bonus.

Note, all I have said in this thread is simply my opinion where I am trying to explain why I am disagreeing with the stated design decision. The original design of GW2 is evolving in the direction I do not enjoy, so I feel that I should voice my opinion. Even if it doesn’t change anything.

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Posted by: ScribeTheMad.7614

ScribeTheMad.7614

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

“The short answer is that new content is not going to drive people away from the game.
There is absolutely no evidence to support that it would.” -AnthonyOrdon

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Posted by: Myrden.2456

Myrden.2456

We’re just tired of the goal post, constantly moving. “Oh hey, I saved up 100g for that shiny new precursor!” Economy Change! Precursors now 1000g!! “Oh wow, it took awhile, but I finally got that map completion, and all the hero pts!” Screw You, DO MOAR! :’(

Its just disheartening. We were under the impression that veteran players would already have enough pts, if they did map completion. Now, it just feels like a punishment, more than some excuse to play more. As if we wouldn’t play as much… We just want to play the content, in our elite spec.

The goal post NEVER moved. Someone datamined some stuff, and everyone took it as gospel. When did Anet ever change the goal post on this?

In fact, by giving us 10 points for every hero point in HoT, they’ve made it very easy to level up your elite specialization.

They didn’t plant the goal post until now so it comes off as being intentionally shady.

Well that’s great for people who like pve… Buy hey look, you can level up 400 times per character in wvw right?

Always remember vayne, you can always measure success by asking yourself “is it fun?”. For many players this will not be considered a success story filled with “fun”.

They also didn’t tell people until recently that you could get this playing WvW or that the hero points in HoT would give you 10 points each and there’s enough of them to give you your entire spec. That’s pretty generous. 40 hero point challenges in HoT is a lot less than 400 in the open world.

I don’t think anyone expected that.

And let’s not forget, some of that is skins, not skills. You don’t even need all 400 to get you entire usable spec unlocked.

I think many people — especially those who keep saying people are whining — continue to forget about alts. So, if I wanted to get the elite spec for all the professions, that’s 3600 hero points I have to farm. And, yes, at that point it IS farming.

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Posted by: Zypher.7609

Zypher.7609

I agree, I hope they do not change this. I enjoy having a goal in the game for my characters besides getting that shiny skin.

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Posted by: fireflyry.7023

fireflyry.7023

How about you stop complaining about people complaining?

^This.

Forums are designed specifically for customers as a medium of communication with peers and designers on both aspects they find positive and negative. That is their sole intended purpose.

I just skip threads discussing issues that don’t concern me, if I have a differing opinion I express it in that thread and move on.

Last thing I would do is create a thread attempting to invalidate their right to complaint or effectively say “I disagree so shhhhh”. That’s just bad for the community as a whole.

For the record I have no issue with this system, then again I have 2 mains and largely ignore my alts unless bored. If I had say 5+ mains I had slogged away on maybe I’d feel differently. In saying it’s a bit early to throw toys out of the cot on anything, they could introduce a whole new system at any time to change how we get these.

If your having adventurer problems I feel bad for you son, I dodged 99 arrows till my knee took one.

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Posted by: Nausicca.6038

Nausicca.6038

I’ll have to play pve for a couple of hours in a very new area to unlock my E spec, THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD !
/quitbecauseElifeistoughandANethatesme

Seriously…

I’m mostly a wvw roamer and I don’t see any problem here. I can’t wait to try gliding, it will remind me my good old days in Aion.

VoxL, NSPPT

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Posted by: Hexalot.8194

Hexalot.8194

We’re just tired of the goal post, constantly moving. “Oh hey, I saved up 100g for that shiny new precursor!” Economy Change! Precursors now 1000g!! “Oh wow, it took awhile, but I finally got that map completion, and all the hero pts!” Screw You, DO MOAR! :’(

Its just disheartening. We were under the impression that veteran players would already have enough pts, if they did map completion. Now, it just feels like a punishment, more than some excuse to play more. As if we wouldn’t play as much… We just want to play the content, in our elite spec.

The goal post NEVER moved. Someone datamined some stuff, and everyone took it as gospel. When did Anet ever change the goal post on this?

In fact, by giving us 10 points for every hero point in HoT, they’ve made it very easy to level up your elite specialization.

They didn’t plant the goal post until now so it comes off as being intentionally shady.

Well that’s great for people who like pve… Buy hey look, you can level up 400 times per character in wvw right?

Always remember vayne, you can always measure success by asking yourself “is it fun?”. For many players this will not be considered a success story filled with “fun”.

They also didn’t tell people until recently that you could get this playing WvW or that the hero points in HoT would give you 10 points each and there’s enough of them to give you your entire spec. That’s pretty generous. 40 hero point challenges in HoT is a lot less than 400 in the open world.

Well there aren’t 400 hero challenges in the open world so not sure what you’re saying here. ;-)

Anyway, we don’t know yet how many of the 40 hero challenges in the jungle are “locked” behind mastery completion (gliding or mushroom jumping to get to certain challenges, etc). So lets not all act like getting to those 40 challenges will be a mere stroll through the jungle, thank you.

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

I’ve never seen a single thread full of so many lies and misinformation before. I’d swear you guys have never even seen GW2 before if I was going off this thread.

1. Mastery points are NOT the same are hero points. There were no hero points in the BWE’s, you found mastery points. They didn’t show us the hero points yet.

2. 400 points is to unlock the ENTIRE line. This includes runes, sigils, weapon skin, and armor skin. According to the datamining it is 170 to unlock the traits, then you unlock the skills, and then you unlock the items. It will be closer to 250 points to unlock all the elite spec, the last ~150 points are just for cosmetics and runes/sigils.

3. Alts will benefit greatly from account bound masteries, making it very easy to get to the hero points on alts.

Please take these points into account when discussing the unlocks. If anything contradicts this post then it is a lie.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

How about you stop complaining about people complaining?

^This.

Forums are designed specifically for customers as a medium of communication with peers and designers on both aspects they find positive and negative. That is their sole intended purpose.

I just skip threads discussing issues that don’t concern me, if I have a differing opinion I express it in that thread and move on.

Last thing I would do is create a thread attempting to invalidate their right to complaint or effectively say “I disagree so shhhhh”. That’s just bad for the community as a whole.

For the record I have no issue with this system, then again I have 2 mains and largely ignore my alts unless bored. If I had say 5+ mains I had slogged away on maybe I’d feel differently. In saying it’s a bit early to throw toys out of the cot on anything, they could introduce a whole new system at any time to change how we get these.

Lol at the gif

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

The content is what you play, the elite spec is how how play it.

Having to play a large portion of the new content with your old spec of the last three years is absurd. Having the new content invalidated isn’t the point, not being able to play it with the elite specs is the point.

^This guy gets it.
I don’t mind working for something, I just want to use my spec while doing it.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: Sicarius.4639

Sicarius.4639

You can have a Monty Hall expansion that you can rush through and get all of the new stuff in a very short time, maybe days.
This option lets you complain about lack of content and no end game.

By that definition it would be a lack of content, artificially stretching it to make it seem longer or bigger is what is annoying people.

You can have an expansion that gives a LOT of content that will require weeks, or even months to get all of the new stuff.
This option lets you complain about “grind”.

No this would be actual content. I don’t hear many complaints about large games that are concise and give lots of things to do. Grinding would be doing the same stuff over and over, there are lots of ways to provide varied content on mass scale.

There are still a lot of old school gamers around that laugh at this generation of gamers when they use the word “grind”, because some of us actually played legitimate Korean grinders and know the origin of the term….and today’s players use the term to describe anything that requires playtime.

See above, if the content was the same throughout and just made artificially longer i.e. 10 bears kitten 10 deer kitten 15 bird beaks etc. This is exactly the same content with a slight variation, 400 quests like this would be grindy with level curves. Changing up said content and giving us meaningful quests that differ would not.

Stop complaining! You paid $50 or more for new content. Do you REALLY want to be able to complete it in a week? Seriously? How many of you complaining about the “grind” for Hero Points right now, would be asking for a refund if you blew through the $50 content in 3 days, complaining that you got ripped off?

Personally I haven’t paid a penny. It’s my power as a consumer to not buy a preorder as I gain nothing and they gain everything. I shall purchase when I want and at the price I see fit.

Those who have, well they’re thrown away the right to complain giving Anet money before they knew what they were getting or even how good it is.

So long as the journey of getting those points isn’t boring and repetitive and just an artificial time gate to stop us getting to the content, then I see no problem with 400 points. We shall see.

As for $50 for 3 days worth, well diluting an orange drink with water 1000000x has the value gone up any more than one 100% pure orange drink for $50? What you’ve demonstrated is that you’re happy to add grind to a game to artificially make it seem more valuable. I think people would want just more game.

For me, I want my $50 worth. I expect at least 3 months of solid new content and experiences for my money. What you complainers call “grind”, I call value.

Well you’re going to be happy regardless it seems, which is perfectly fine, but we don’t quite no whether or not this is solid content or diluting to make more of something of very little substance.

For those complaining about grind, there are PLENTY of “Pay to Win” games out there where you can just spend money and get all the best stuff instantly. Go find one, and you can spend lots of money and not have any “grind” at all.

They can indeed. I feel most people aggrieved actually still care about this game, they wouldn’t complain if they didn’t, but some feedback can be very good, hell if you wanted everyone who loved the game but had problems to just leave instead of trying to work it out, you’d be left in a very quiet game.

TL:DR Shut up about grind. If you want to spend $50 for a few days of new content, your expectations are ridiculous. Go play a Pay to Win, pay money for instant gratification and BIS gear.

I feel I’ve already addressed this previously.

The rest of us want $50+ worth of quality game time.
Just because you are excited to play your new profession, do you really want GW2 to be “Instant BIS, just add cash”?

I feel you’re still missing the point a bit, I’m sure if the 400 were accessed with an engaging PvE environment and not samey quests repetitively done just to stop the player from getting things too quickly, they’d be very happy.

This is my personal opinion looking from the outside in, like I said I haven’t purchased anything yet and I honestly cannot make a judgement on the content until I’ve seen a bit more, be it reviews and playthroughs, live streams, etc. That’s the power as a consumer that I have, we all do.

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Posted by: Zania.8461

Zania.8461

You can have a Monty Hall expansion that you can rush through and get all of the new stuff in a very short time, maybe days.
This option lets you complain about lack of content and no end game.

If you create a single dungeon and call it an expansion, I have every right to complain about lack of content.

You can have an expansion that gives a LOT of content that will require weeks, or even months to get all of the new stuff.
This option lets you complain about “grind”.

Now we need to be clear, are we talking about 100 dungeons or are we talking about that same one dungeon but locked by having to grind 500 levels and doing all jumping puzzles in the old world? If its the first, then complaining is not justified, if it’s the second then it is. First provides a lot of content. Second provides very little content locked behind a meaningless grind.

There are still a lot of old school gamers around that laugh at this generation of gamers when they use the word “grind”, because some of us actually played legitimate Korean grinders and know the origin of the term….and today’s players use the term to describe anything that requires playtime.

EQ1, FFXI. I’ve had my share of grind. I came to GW2 because I didn’t have to grind and only major timesinks were optional and did not impact character progression. HoT gates character progression by exploration – something that really wasn’t there before.

Stop complaining! You paid $50 or more for new content. Do you REALLY want to be able to complete it in a week? Seriously? How many of you complaining about the “grind” for Hero Points right now, would be asking for a refund if you blew through the $50 content in 3 days, complaining that you got ripped off?

No I don’t want to complete expansion in a week. I want it to take months, maybe years. Filled with doing new and unique content and not grinding the same kitten HPs over and over on all my characters just to make them competitive. Once again, this is not a Korean MMO. I hope it’ll never become one.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

/sigh

(Silver platter) here yah go. The whole game unlocked for you. Enjoy.

Would you call having access to a lvl 80 character “the whole game unlocked”? No? Then I wouldn’t consider gaining access to the elite specs that we paid for “the whole game unlocked” either.

The actual game is playing for masteries, raiding, dungeon running, WvWing, PvPing, farming for mats, and map exploration which was always an optional thing not a requirement.

I would rather have access to the elite specs that I paid for, so I can go ahead and enjoy the rest of the game at my own pace, on my own time, when I want to. You know, the Guild Wars way. To the OP, yes today’s news is a buzzkill to many. People who enjoy PvE and map exploration of course are ok with the news. But for the rest of us that prefer other parts of this fine game, it was a buzzkill. It soured my mood 3 days before expansion launch…and here I was hyping and getting excited about it before we were slapped with this info.

Which by the way, the same info players have been asking clarification for weeks and months ago. People already had expectations that they could play their elite specs on day 1. And bang, 3 days before launch we’re slapped with this awful news. Buzzkill indeed. My hype & excitement now is filled with dread. Because frankly, running around unlocking hero points is not what I consider fun. Nor is it having to do it 11 times for my 11 characters.

You get the all core traits unlocked by dinging 80. You get the ELITE traits unlocked by playing the game. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have to play the game to unlock elite traits on all my level 80s.

People who enjoy PvE and map exploration of course are ok with the news. But for the rest of us that prefer other parts of this fine game, it was a buzzkill

It’s unlocked in PvP automatically for HoT owners. You can unlock in WvW just by playing in WvW. So this part of your complaint is not valid.

It is unlocked in pvp for wvw, pve and pvp players alike, the difference however is that elite specializations are not unlocked at all for a pvp player that occasionally wants to run through heart of thorn maps with guildies or battle in wvw with his favourite elite specs. I hope they add a way of getting your hero points through pvp for those players.

Personally I have plenty of characters that occasionally I use in wvw/pve and only have 10% world completion. Barriers to switch game modes are bad game design in my opinion.

Maybe they haven’t thought it through or they have but it’s still in the works. The addition of a way to get this in WvW sounds to me like something they’ve recently thought up after reading the complaints. A PvP track to unlock the elite specialization in PvE would be harder to design that the WvW track and is possibly still in production. If they don’t add it by launch PvP players should ask for it.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Jaquento.5384

Jaquento.5384

400 points to unlock what exactly? sounds like i got to get them all to really use the elite-spec, as its not better, just different from the normal specs and having a half-finished traitline shouldnt be better than a completet one… so completing 2 maps atleast to get there… and when the next elite comes i need another 400 points? sounds like anet wants to depopulate the core game… maybe so everyone has to get the xpac to have fun? sounds like a great idea…

it would be far more reasonable to need 120 points for the elite spec and maybe another 80 for the skills, that way, you can get the elite in the old maps aswell, and if you give 5 points per challange in the jungle, you can still progess there pretty fast. and the bling, runes and inscriptions should be in reward tracks. having them in the spec feels strange… especially if you do it a 2nd time… why would you want to unlock the runes, skins, etc again?

edit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iz5oo/data_mining_hero_points_and_specialization_tracks/
this is what was datamined with the 170 points to unlock the elite… and it looks ridiculous… now there were 250 points needed originally… and now there are 400… looks like they just increased the points needed to unlock the stages…

(edited by Jaquento.5384)

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Posted by: dom.2748

dom.2748

It seems like intentionally trying to make the content of HoT take longer by making you grind out elite specs first. Elite specs aren’t content, they’re just a spec. Most people want to play as them, PvP gets to play with them day 1, other gamemodes have to grind out hero challenges, and most of them I can only imagine are locked behind mastery gates. Like places you can only get to if you have upgraded gliding or mushrooms.

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Posted by: Arietta The Broken.1875

Arietta The Broken.1875

I think the real problem is that the elite specs and masteries gate off content that people want to experience. Some people want to jump straight into raids, however to access raids we already have been told we have to build our our masteries.

Elite specs also are going to be significant for raids so again unlocking these means that people have to invest time and effort before doing the thing they actually want to do.

Yes it’s great anet have put content in, but it feels in someways like the trait system (spend loads of gold on each char, or go and basically put in a 100% world map effort worth to unlock all the traits)

I remember even back when Fractals was first released. A group of friend and myself built up 4-5 characters to be able to do 50+ fractals. (Back when fractal level was character bound) this was actually a nice thing in our opinion.
But then when someone wanted to reroll to a new profession; they had to rework up through all the levels. Anet decided then to make fractals account wide. As such you could make an alt and it’d be ready for fractals as soon as it hit 80.

Now, we are back in the position that if someone hasn’t 100% map completed all of their characters, they are at a significant disadvantage if they want to reroll due to lack of elite specs.

I am not saying that this was an overall bad move; I am just saying that gating off content in this way is going to have a negative effect on those that just want to jump into raids.

Edit especially since this game really caters to a more casual audience. The fact that there is going to be this gated content, I think confuses people.

The more hardcore people in the game, do dungeons and fractals and will be jumping into raids. Thats where they want to grind excel. However to do that they are forcing on open world content which may not be something the “hardcore” player base wants to do.

I felt this personally when I was doing 50+ Fractals with my group of friends (5 man guild) and then suddenly we could get laurels for Necklaces and Guild Comms for Earrings. Our 5 man guild, only doing Fractals didn’t earn any influence… It forced us out of Fractals, to find a guild and do Guild Missions with to get the extra AR (in truth it didn’t make much difference since this was about the time they gated natural progression of FoTM to 50 even if we were still pushing higher)

You’re dumb. You’ll die, and you’ll leave a dumb corpse.

(edited by Arietta The Broken.1875)

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

I just came up with a super idea!!!!! Account bound elite progress just like all the 1000 other progress tracks!!!! So 400 unlocks everything for every character on your account!!!!

Gosh I’m so awesome!!!!

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Lucifers Heaven.2167

Lucifers Heaven.2167

Gated content is a way of saying : we don’t really have that much content, so we have to make you jump through all these hoops to get to whatever little we have.

I disagree, entirely.
Yes, it can be used for that purpose.
But at it’s most basic, “gating” is an inescapable part of any game where your power increases.

- Having to do one story step before you do the one after that is a form of gating. But it’s there to make the story progression make sense.
- Not being strong enough to kill things in Orr at level 1 is a form of gating. That is partly there to extend gameplay, but also to give a sense of progression, a feeling of becoming more powerful as you can now compete with things you previously couldn’t.
- PvP matchmaking is a form of gating, as you HAVE to prove yourself against the less skilled before you can fight the more skilled.
- And of course the tower and keep walls and gates in WvW are a form of gating, as you can’t kill the lords behind them without first breaking through them :P

There are more. You can even have player skill based gating (and GW2 has some of that). Gating CAN be horrible. But good use of it is integral to this (and most) kinds of games.

As a good example:
Attuning to raids in some games is a horrible form of gating. It can be just excessively grind this one mob until we let you in.
VS
Gliding being required for the first raid. It is a form of gating. However I would argue it is considerably better. First off, you can get the XP and mastery points needed to unlock gliding in a variety of ways. And these are likely to be achieved while just doing other stuff (and wanting you to get it this way, rather than try and rush grind the access is the thinking behind having a delay before the first raid is accessible).

The other important part of the gliding example is that there are really only a few other options:
First, is to just not require it for the raids. But this would mean they couldn’t build fights and puzzles and challenges and exploration around any of their new mechanics, which defeats most of the point of those new things.
Second would be to just give everyone gliding immediately. But this breaks a lot of the rewards from their new end game progression mechanic. Especially when you remember that it’s not just about gliding. There will be other raids paths in future that will undoubtedly require jump mushroom and other various masteries.

So I think the way they have done it was a very good design decision.
And so yeah. Gating =/= bad. Bad use of gating = bad.
Good gating is necessary for this type of game.

TLDR: Noooooooope. Gating is necessary for almost all types of video games. Only poorly designed and/or executed gating is bad. Good use of it is pretty much what makes a video game.

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Posted by: Coulter.2315

Coulter.2315

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

Ok lets take this example.

You want to play Herald in HoT this means you’re starting a NEW Rev, right?

You now need to level it (with tomes or regularly), by leveling you GAIN Hero points.

You reach 80 having SAVED enough Hero points to unlock Herald’s skills, traits etc.

You now SPEND those Hero points on Herald mechanics.

Congratulations you now get to play HoT as a Herald.

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Posted by: binidj.5734

binidj.5734

The way I see it is that the only way to effectively register my disappointment at this choice is with my wallet. So, on the basis that I spend roughly $10 a month in the Gem Store, I guess I’ll be holding off buying anything until about March.

Glad to be [Grey] – http://thegrey.enjin.com/home
Piken Square

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Posted by: KingLz.1407

KingLz.1407

Unlocking elite specs by playing wouldn’t be half as bad if some specs like Druid wouldn’t have nothing in common with the base line profession.
I might be wrong, but what does a Ranger bring to be considered as base line healer?

So if I want to play the new healer, do I really have to start a boring Ranger first and push myself through stuff I don’t really want to do at all?

Same with Necromancer, I would try out the Reaper, but Necro was always way to unappealing to me.

I have nearly all professions leveled up to 80. And some of them didn’t seem to be as much fun as others, with the new elite specs I would try them again, but using their boring gameplay first to unlock something that maybe will be fun, seems to be quite off.

Testing the elite spec. in PvP would show me what about playing that style in group content // open world?

I mean I don’t care about the “fluff” like unlocking runes, skins and what not. Make that a million hero points! But let everyone be able to unlock the base spec fast enough.

And for all those guys that are claiming “elite spec is the natural progression for my profession”, maybe you are all playing Warriors and don’t care at all? But really tell me my Druid example, that the base profession has nothing in common with the elite one and that this is an issue doesn’t apply! I have seen Guardian and Elementalist healers, even Warrior ones, but a Ranger healer? Does that really exist?

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

/sigh

(Silver platter) here yah go. The whole game unlocked for you. Enjoy.

People keep repeating this like programmed drones…
specs are not content, they are the means to play it. It’s not that I don’t want to work for something, I don’t mind that, I just want my spec while doing it.

I want to play hot with a Chronomancer, not play hot and get a chronomancer at the end.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: BobbyT.7192

BobbyT.7192

Gated content with expansions isn’t new to gw2, it exists in very nearly every mmorpg in existence. There may be an exception or two, but it is by far the norm.

So is trinity, gear grinds and expansions invalidating the entirety of previous progress. I did have a hope that GW2 was trying to break the mold. Original GW2 had very little gated content. Explorable dungeon modes are gated by story and fractals are gated by progress (can be bypassed by other party member) and soft gated by agony. Original design for utilities and traits provided a very easy way of bypassing bad traits and utilities, allowing you to concentrate on playing your class how you wanted. It also showered you with skill points. NPE fixed it by making bad skills mandatory and progression linear, however it still gave you all necessary HPs by leveling + a bit extra as a bonus.

Note, all I have said in this thread is simply my opinion where I am trying to explain why I am disagreeing with the stated design decision. The original design of GW2 is evolving in the direction I do not enjoy, so I feel that I should voice my opinion. Even if it doesn’t change anything.

Gw2 still does break the mold with this though. In other MMOs, you were gated behind level cap increases, and a new gear treadmill. Which would take up more of your time then getting a few hero points. Just because they got rid of a lot of old ways to gate content, does mean there won’t be some, and it’s not like this is not whole lot anyways imo. :/

(edited by BobbyT.7192)

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Posted by: Inverse.2967

Inverse.2967

One question to keep in mind folks… “Is it fun?”

First time through: definitely one hell of a blast !

Second time through: maybe try some alternate tactics…

3rd-9th time thtough: err…. dunno if the new challenges will be so extremely super fun that repeating each 8 times in short duration is the most desirable activity in the game.

But well, if you would earn those (WvW-)dropped HP-Random-Unlock Tomes in PvE too, whenever you play on a toon that already has his ESpec maxed out, then why not.
It would then just be like feeding regular PvE level up tomes to your lowbie alts when they were still leveling core tyria,
so that could work just ok.

Or:
Just add Maguuma-HP-Unlockers to the daily login reward.
That would make 28-31 × 10 = 280-310 HP for free each month, enough to get most of one ESpec. Helpful but not too much either.

(edited by Inverse.2967)

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Posted by: dom.2748

dom.2748

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

Ok lets take this example.

You want to play Herald in HoT this means you’re starting a NEW Rev, right?

You now need to level it (with tomes or regularly), by leveling you GAIN Hero points.

You reach 80 having SAVED enough Hero points to unlock Herald’s skills, traits etc.

You now SPEND those Hero points on Herald mechanics.

Congratulations you now get to play HoT as a Herald.

Incorrect, Colin literally said you need to unlock all the core stuff to unlock the elite spec.

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Posted by: arkealia.2713

arkealia.2713

So you want elite spec unlocked right away? With all skins unlocked as well including all new legendaries? billions of each mats in the bank? All maps unlocked with an instant teleport to wherever you want option? Dev Menu? OHKO button? Cheat mode?

I don’t even remember anyone crying at GW2 release because they didn’t have all their skills and weapons unlocked right away.

Are you sure you really want to play and enjoy the game?

Edit: I can understand the frustration for wvw players

(edited by arkealia.2713)

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

Most of us do have rank 200 and much higher but its not retroactive that we have been made aware of so even for the most hard core of WvW players 200 ranks will take a couple weeks.

It’s nice that they gave us this as an after thought but thats really not the right word because there wasn’t much thought put into it. The amount we get per rank need to be increased significantly if we’re to keep up with the Jones (PvE). Right now 200 ranks is like spitting in our face, it’s basically the same as leaving a penny for a tip and expecting a thank you from your server.

If this is the case, might as well disable Elite specs in WvW temporarily until the PvE side of HoT is bug-fixed.

There has not been sufficient testing and if only a small extremely hardcore player portion of the playerbase has access to it for the first week (or two), the situation will be even worse.

It seems that gaining 200 WvW ranks per character , mind you is a lot to ask someone just for the Elite specialization. Many players will be EoTM farming or PvEing because you won’t get that many ranks in a T1/T2 server as easily or quickly.

When you need 40 Jungle hero challenges or 200 WvW ranks per character then it is clear WvW is not really an efficient option at all. Let’s not discount the 6000 badges required per character.

If Arenanet could elucidate how many of the hero points are required for a working Elite specialization compared to PvE stuff like gliding it would be nice. I don’t know if it is 400 hero points per character, if it is then that would be truly grindy.

i.e. if the Elite spec with Elite skills is 20 WvW ranks it would be more reasonable. Unless you get a Notarized scroll every time you cap a keep, SMC, or tower (in place of whatever lame green items you get in addition to dragonite ores) in “real” WvW and not EoTM, I don’t see it being a quick affair.

My suggestion if 400 hero points is really needed for Elite spec with elite skill:
Make WvW ranks give 2 notarized scrolls per rank as currently stated. Each SMC cap gives 10-20 notarized scrolls, a keep cap gives 5-10 notarized scrolls, tower cap gives 2 (i.e. reward real WvW not EoTM karma training).

Perhaps an account-wide solution is to be made, where after the first elite spec is unlocked the next character doesn’t cost 400 hero points but something more reasonable to attain in a week (per character).

EDIT:

I’ve never seen a single thread full of so many lies and misinformation before. I’d swear you guys have never even seen GW2 before if I was going off this thread.

1. Mastery points are NOT the same are hero points. There were no hero points in the BWE’s, you found mastery points. They didn’t show us the hero points yet.

2. 400 points is to unlock the ENTIRE line. This includes runes, sigils, weapon skin, and armor skin. According to the datamining it is 170 to unlock the traits, then you unlock the skills, and then you unlock the items. It will be closer to 250 points to unlock all the elite spec, the last ~150 points are just for cosmetics and runes/sigils.

3. Alts will benefit greatly from account bound masteries, making it very easy to get to the hero points on alts.

Please take these points into account when discussing the unlocks. If anything contradicts this post then it is a lie.

Let’s say it does “only” cost 250 points to unlock the elite spec. That is still 125 WvW ranks per character.

Desolation (EU) → Yak’s Bend (US)
In your backline: Elementalist+Mesmer+Necromancer

(edited by Infusion.7149)

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Posted by: Nubu.6148

Nubu.6148

Are you sure you really want to play and enjoy the game?

Sure but no Pve ….

Nubú -Engie -Asura-
BNF-Bitte nicht füttern-
Smallscale <3 !

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Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

but a Ranger healer? Does that really exist?

Yes, like almost every profession, ranger is able to maintain 100 % uptime of regen on his team (resounding timbre + sick’em), clear condi (healing spring)of his team and has some skills that heals teammates (blue moa, invigorating bond, sigil of water) . The fact nobody plays it is a different story….

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Posted by: Coulter.2315

Coulter.2315

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

Ok lets take this example.

You want to play Herald in HoT this means you’re starting a NEW Rev, right?

You now need to level it (with tomes or regularly), by leveling you GAIN Hero points.

You reach 80 having SAVED enough Hero points to unlock Herald’s skills, traits etc.

You now SPEND those Hero points on Herald mechanics.

Congratulations you now get to play HoT as a Herald.

Incorrect, Colin literally said you need to unlock all the core stuff to unlock the elite spec.

Ah righto.

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Posted by: SamTheGuardian.2938

SamTheGuardian.2938

Core gameplay should NOT be gated behind a grind.

What are you even talking about? In the core game, don’t you have to level to 80 in order to go to cursed shores? So cursed shores is gated behind a grind as well, isn’kitten

There’s plenty of other content other than Cursed Shore to do when you’re not at 80.
But that’s to be expected while leveling. But if you want to dive into the jungle, or do world bosses, or do halloween content, or anything else out in the world on an alt, being faced with a big grind just to unlock your elite spec’s base functionality is absurd. The CONTENT is what should occupy you. Not the unlocking of the abilities and traits you want to use on that content.

Do you require your elite specs to go to the jungle? No.

You want to do it. Like someone who just starts the game and wants to go to Arah.

What the heck did you all expect the content to be? Of course there has to be some sort of time drain. No company on this planet can provide you with thousands of hours of non-repetitive endgame content.

GRINDING HERO POINTS IS NOT “CONTENT”. Especially if you have to do the same grind 9 times to cover every class in the game.
And reducing or removing that grind still leaves 99% of the HoT intact.
Your character is your avatar. Your tool. Your bridge between yourself and the content. Blocking off a chunk of that bridge for literally no reason does NOTHING to enhance the content you’re playing, and reducing or removing those blocks does nothing to cheapen all of the content they’re adding.

Elite Specs are a TOOL via which you experience content. They are hardly content themselves and any grind to unlock them is automatically unwarranted as a direct result. People just want to play HoT, or do Halloween, or run dungeons, or fractals, or WvW. But this decision to gate off elite specs behind an arbitrarily huge hero point hurdle directly inhibits a player’s ability to do that content as they choose to do it.

This is bad design. Period. You don’t like my comment, don’t read em, don’t respond to them, don’t use this forum at all if you disagree with literally anyone at all. THAT is the logic you’re telling us to use when we criticize this design decision.

^^^ You nailed it. From info released it seems they’ve decided to bake grind into every aspect of GW2 though heart of thorns. It seems PvP will be the only approachable aspect of the game for busy college students or working adults (the league system seems to actually favor the casual player given them tiers to strive for even if they can’t play enough to make it into the higher divisions). They want everyone who plays PvE to have to grind, which is usually done by a developer just as a way to compensate for poor design, by giving the player more of the same hoops to jump though. Fortunately we still have PvP and WvW changes and of course the Revenant all of which still have me excited (hope they don’t change their minds and expect you to achieve some other grind task in order to make a Revenant… That would not surprise me at this point)..

The whole kitten problem could be solved if they took away the “must unlock all core specializations first” rule or if they gave us a new gem store item that when used created a on demand hero challenger you have to take out to earn 10 hero points (kind of like instant banker works). The later would at least give those of us with less time on our hands an option to pay into the cash shop for functionality that as you’ve said is not content but a core functional aspect of the expansion

(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)

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Posted by: Sytherek.7689

Sytherek.7689

So you want elite spec unlocked right away? With all skins unlocked as well including all new legendaries? billions of each mats in the bank? All maps unlocked with an instant teleport to wherever you want option? Dev Menu? OHKO button? Cheat mode?

I don’t even remember anyone crying at GW2 release because they didn’t have all their skills and weapons unlocked right away.

Are you sure you really want to play and enjoy the game?

I consider new content to be adventure and exploration, not grinding. If I had only 1-2 characters, it wouldn’t be so bad, but by the third time thru the “content”, it’s grind. Hell, even the second time is boring.

I want content, not grind. Since masteries are account-wide, so should be skill points.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

/sigh

(Silver platter) here yah go. The whole game unlocked for you. Enjoy.

People keep repeating this like programmed drones…
specs are not content, they are the means to play it. It’s not that I don’t want to work for something, I don’t mind that, I just want my spec while doing it.

I want to play hot with a Chronomancer, not play hot and get a chronomancer at the end.

Soooo the core specs should unlock also without progressing your char? After all, specs are not content according to you.

It’s the way the game is set up. To get the core specs you have to progress your char high enough to get them. Once you have the core specs you have to progress your char high enough to get the elite specs.

Yes, asking the game to hand over char progression just by logging in to their level 80 is asking for it to be given to them on a silver platter.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

We’re just tired of the goal post, constantly moving. “Oh hey, I saved up 100g for that shiny new precursor!” Economy Change! Precursors now 1000g!! “Oh wow, it took awhile, but I finally got that map completion, and all the hero pts!” Screw You, DO MOAR! :’(

Its just disheartening. We were under the impression that veteran players would already have enough pts, if they did map completion. Now, it just feels like a punishment, more than some excuse to play more. As if we wouldn’t play as much… We just want to play the content, in our elite spec.

The goal post NEVER moved. Someone datamined some stuff, and everyone took it as gospel. When did Anet ever change the goal post on this?

In fact, by giving us 10 points for every hero point in HoT, they’ve made it very easy to level up your elite specialization.

They didn’t plant the goal post until now so it comes off as being intentionally shady.

Well that’s great for people who like pve… Buy hey look, you can level up 400 times per character in wvw right?

Always remember vayne, you can always measure success by asking yourself “is it fun?”. For many players this will not be considered a success story filled with “fun”.

They also didn’t tell people until recently that you could get this playing WvW or that the hero points in HoT would give you 10 points each and there’s enough of them to give you your entire spec. That’s pretty generous. 40 hero point challenges in HoT is a lot less than 400 in the open world.

I don’t think anyone expected that.

And let’s not forget, some of that is skins, not skills. You don’t even need all 400 to get you entire usable spec unlocked.

I think many people — especially those who keep saying people are whining — continue to forget about alts. So, if I wanted to get the elite spec for all the professions, that’s 3600 hero points I have to farm. And, yes, at that point it IS farming.

I have 31 alts. I don’t need an elite spec on every single one of them and if you do, do it over time and make it part of the process. It’s no big deal. You need 4 druids?

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Posted by: Snowywonders.1378

Snowywonders.1378

Hey Dulfy, if you’re reading this , I’ll gladly give you 100g if you have a guide up by Sunday on the quickest way to collect the HP’s in HoT.
It’d be great to get over this bs as quickly and effortlessly as possible.
I’ll probably be playing pvp meanwhile.

Elite Specializations & Hero Point Feedback [Merged]

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: IchbinVol.5407

IchbinVol.5407

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

Ok lets take this example.

You want to play Herald in HoT this means you’re starting a NEW Rev, right?

You now need to level it (with tomes or regularly), by leveling you GAIN Hero points.

You reach 80 having SAVED enough Hero points to unlock Herald’s skills, traits etc.

You now SPEND those Hero points on Herald mechanics.

Congratulations you now get to play HoT as a Herald.

Incorrect, Colin literally said you need to unlock all the core stuff to unlock the elite spec.

Ah righto.

Yeah, this is WHY ppl are angry. A 3 year vet, with map completion, is forced to farm more to get something they should already have access to.

Elite Specializations & Hero Point Feedback [Merged]

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Inverse.2967

Inverse.2967

I bet there might be community-driven “mesmer-portal-relay-race-maguuma-hp-unlock” events coming up.

At least that would be super cool if we did that, and thus we should. :P

Elite Specializations & Hero Point Feedback [Merged]

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

So you want elite spec unlocked right away? With all skins unlocked as well including all new legendaries? billions of each mats in the bank? All maps unlocked with an instant teleport to wherever you want option? Dev Menu? OHKO button? Cheat mode?

I don’t even remember anyone crying at GW2 release because they didn’t have all their skills and weapons unlocked right away.

Are you sure you really want to play and enjoy the game?

I consider new content to be adventure and exploration, not grinding. If I had only 1-2 characters, it wouldn’t be so bad, but by the third time thru the “content”, it’s grind. Hell, even the second time is boring.

I want content, not grind. Since masteries are account-wide, so should be skill points.

But the second/third toon is already grind from the all beginning. They are leveled the same way as the first one. They go in the same dungeons, the same Fractals, there hasn’t been any new content for each alt character created in the game. I don’t get why people have grinded so much on their rerolls and then feel insulted that they will grind them to Elite in the expansion.