Guild Wars 2

So if I want to create different characters of a same class, do I still have to jump through the same stupid hoops each time to unlock specializations for them too?

Sounds like it should be an account wide unlock at least, now. I know this crap is certainly going to get real old real fast when I finally get around to unlocking everything on every alt I have, and that’s not counting the class-duplicates.

One of the attractions of HoT for me was being able to run my new elite spec through the new content. Now you are saying that I have to complete the whole of the content before I can unlock the spec fully? So I have to run a kitten toon through most of the new content if I want to use one of the new weapons for my toon? You were smart (and shady) to announce this AFTER you did the pre-order.
Are you offering refunds on the pre-orders? I may just go play another game.

I don’t know, I know I play differently, but just make sense that you need your core skill unlock to access Elite. I also guess I do not get angry over trivial things, to much in the world to be angry at a game, lol. I know my two main have lots of hero points, and my alts mostly only have the points earn for level 80, which was a nice update btw. So at least I will be able to see the two sides.

Really don’t see the problem with this and basically most people are totally over reacting.
It’s an expansion! and because GW2 has ‘horizontal’ progression (The process of developing gradually towards a more advanced state) and not an increased level cap, people are up in arms.
If this was an expansion from 99% of other games with an increased level cap you’d have to earn those extra levels. I see nothing different here. No one makes an expansion and hands you everything on a platter just for buying it, that’s not the nature of MMo’s.
It’s something to work towards and achieve rather than everyone on day 1 having access to everything and i’m fine with that (i also have 20+ level 80s so it will be difficult, but isn’t that a reason we play these games? to achieve in one way or another)

So seriously chill out and get excited about Friday and quit with all the doom and gloom.

Katre.1084:

One of the attractions of HoT for me was being able to run my new elite spec through the new content. Now you are saying that I have to complete the whole of the content before I can unlock the spec fully? So I have to run a kitten toon through most of the new content if I want to use one of the new weapons for my toon? You were smart (and shady) to announce this AFTER you did the pre-order.

How many hero points, on the class you want to do this with, do you have left over?

I know it’s still too early although I’m scared to know how much of those hero challenges I’ll be able to do without getting either of the first glider and/or the jumping one.. :/
Guess more WubWubing for me.

Ps: was plaining to go all out on the fractal mastery first

Sarah

RedDeadFred.1256:

Honestly, I think this is a very good thing. This system encourages you to fully explore the jungle while still allowing you to make up some of the difference with central Tyria mastery points.

They’re called ELITE specializations for a reason guys. It’s part of the progression. I’d much rather have this than some stupid gear grind. This way, instead of just powercreeping up, you’re gradually unlocking some new skills, traits, skins, and runes.

No, you won’t have your Elite Spec fully completed on day 1 (well, maybe you will if you go hard enough), but I’m pretty sure that’s the POINT. It gives you something tangible to work towards while still enjoying the expansion. If you people consider this grind, it means you consider simply playing the game a grind. If that’s the case, why are you still playing?

For one character I’m sure it’ll be fine. But it depends on how much content there is in HoT – we have four new zones and no way of knowing how much landmass we’ll actually have to play with. The cynic in me thinks this requirement is to compensate for what isn’t going to be a lot of content by time-gating access to elite specs with this many HPs.

aB EXT.1287:

As a WvW focused player, this is completely unacceptable. The unlocking is totally random and will take a LOT of ranks to unlock everything for each of my many alts that I play frequently. You could easily spend weeks on one elite spec, only to have it be unusable because you don’t have the correct traits unlocked. This coupled with the removal of rank consumables makes this absolutely horrible.

This will increase the toxicity of WvW so much, as you can easily waste an entire day fighting against a server that simply will not let go of any objectives.

I think you misunderstood. You’re not getting random traits unlocked, you’re getting random PvE hero challenges unlocked without having to enter PvE zones. You can spend the points gained on any traits you wish.

cygnus.8913:

RedDeadFred.1256:

Honestly, I think this is a very good thing. This system encourages you to fully explore the jungle while still allowing you to make up some of the difference with central Tyria mastery points.

They’re called ELITE specializations for a reason guys. It’s part of the progression. I’d much rather have this than some stupid gear grind. This way, instead of just powercreeping up, you’re gradually unlocking some new skills, traits, skins, and runes.

No, you won’t have your Elite Spec fully completed on day 1 (well, maybe you will if you go hard enough), but I’m pretty sure that’s the POINT. It gives you something tangible to work towards while still enjoying the expansion. If you people consider this grind, it means you consider simply playing the game a grind. If that’s the case, why are you still playing?

For one character I’m sure it’ll be fine. But it depends on how much content there is in HoT – we have four new zones and no way of knowing how much landmass we’ll actually have to play with. The cynic in me thinks this requirement is to compensate for what isn’t going to be a lot of content by time-gating access to elite specs with this many HPs.

You need 60 hp after all is unlock on your character. level 80 already nets you all that more or less. any extra goes towards the other. so if you just did level 80 and that it, you can easily do 6 jungle hero challenge and bam elite time. True, unsure how easy 6 will be, but in the beta, I recall at least 3 in easy reach, though I explore more then worry about them.

Donari.5237:

aB EXT.1287:

As a WvW focused player, this is completely unacceptable. The unlocking is totally random and will take a LOT of ranks to unlock everything for each of my many alts that I play frequently. You could easily spend weeks on one elite spec, only to have it be unusable because you don’t have the correct traits unlocked. This coupled with the removal of rank consumables makes this absolutely horrible.

This will increase the toxicity of WvW so much, as you can easily waste an entire day fighting against a server that simply will not let go of any objectives.

I think you misunderstood. You’re not getting random traits unlocked, you’re getting random PvE hero challenges unlocked without having to enter PvE zones. You can spend the points gained on any traits you wish.

Ahh okay, if that’s the case then I retract my objection. While the rank grind won’t be fun, at least I will have control over it. Thanks!

TJgalon.5012:

cygnus.8913:

RedDeadFred.1256:

Honestly, I think this is a very good thing. This system encourages you to fully explore the jungle while still allowing you to make up some of the difference with central Tyria mastery points.

They’re called ELITE specializations for a reason guys. It’s part of the progression. I’d much rather have this than some stupid gear grind. This way, instead of just powercreeping up, you’re gradually unlocking some new skills, traits, skins, and runes.

No, you won’t have your Elite Spec fully completed on day 1 (well, maybe you will if you go hard enough), but I’m pretty sure that’s the POINT. It gives you something tangible to work towards while still enjoying the expansion. If you people consider this grind, it means you consider simply playing the game a grind. If that’s the case, why are you still playing?

For one character I’m sure it’ll be fine. But it depends on how much content there is in HoT – we have four new zones and no way of knowing how much landmass we’ll actually have to play with. The cynic in me thinks this requirement is to compensate for what isn’t going to be a lot of content by time-gating access to elite specs with this many HPs.

You need 60 hp after all is unlock on your character. level 80 already nets you all that more or less. any extra goes towards the other. so if you just did level 80 and that it, you can easily do 6 jungle hero challenge and bam elite time. True, unsure how easy 6 will be, but in the beta, I recall at least 3 in easy reach, though I explore more then worry about them.

You could be entirely right. It’s all speculation until we dig in, I suppose.

I do have the HPs on some of my characters to unlock, and I don’t mind the requirement as such, but in the original game I had well, the whole game to run around and unlock things – a lot of world. I know HoT’s maps are multi-tiered, but it just doesn’t look like much to me right now. They have disincentivized going back to the original content because the challenges give you ten times the points, and given that they aren’t launching with any new dungeons, I suppose I’m concerned about the content becoming rather stale after doing it with all my alts.

But again, you could be right.

400hp for elite spec and 17mill per mastery Grind wars 2.

TJgalon.5012:

cygnus.8913:

RedDeadFred.1256:

Honestly, I think this is a very good thing. This system encourages you to fully explore the jungle while still allowing you to make up some of the difference with central Tyria mastery points.

They’re called ELITE specializations for a reason guys. It’s part of the progression. I’d much rather have this than some stupid gear grind. This way, instead of just powercreeping up, you’re gradually unlocking some new skills, traits, skins, and runes.

No, you won’t have your Elite Spec fully completed on day 1 (well, maybe you will if you go hard enough), but I’m pretty sure that’s the POINT. It gives you something tangible to work towards while still enjoying the expansion. If you people consider this grind, it means you consider simply playing the game a grind. If that’s the case, why are you still playing?

For one character I’m sure it’ll be fine. But it depends on how much content there is in HoT – we have four new zones and no way of knowing how much landmass we’ll actually have to play with. The cynic in me thinks this requirement is to compensate for what isn’t going to be a lot of content by time-gating access to elite specs with this many HPs.

You need 60 hp after all is unlock on your character. level 80 already nets you all that more or less. any extra goes towards the other. so if you just did level 80 and that it, you can easily do 6 jungle hero challenge and bam elite time. True, unsure how easy 6 will be, but in the beta, I recall at least 3 in easy reach, though I explore more then worry about them.

I take it back, I will make a reply because you need 60 hero points after level 80 just to START on the elite specialization training… essentially it’s 60 hero points to unlock the first minor trait that lets you ‘be’ the spec and use the weapon.

400 hero points total (which some of that isn’t needed as it’s just 2 or 3 skins at the end of it apparently…) but some of the skins appear to be interspersed within the training line. If that’s not the case, and the skins at the end comprise something like 300 hero points (but I do not think it’s nearly that high for them individually), then this isn’t really a big deal, and yes many will have been having a fit for no reason. However, I’ll be shocked if it’s even only 100 skill points for the last 2 skins combined, much less 100 each.

From the WvW forums it states 400 HP to fully unlock an elite which seems like a lot for an elite line that really isn’t all that great. Sure they’re pretty cool but for the cost they should be fricken AWESOME SAUCE!

I know it still waiting on info, so i guess it why i am not in a panic. also help, my true main done just about everything in tyria, so I am sitting on 200 hp on her. My couple other, mostly fun for when my Partner offline, and as such, they have 80 ad only the hero challenges i ended up passing to earn that, to get them to dry top and sliver waste.

Katre.1084:

One of the attractions of HoT for me was being able to run my new elite spec through the new content. Now you are saying that I have to complete the whole of the content before I can unlock the spec fully? So I have to run a kitten toon through most of the new content if I want to use one of the new weapons for my toon? You were smart (and shady) to announce this AFTER you did the pre-order.
Are you offering refunds on the pre-orders? I may just go play another game.

The new weapon is unlocked on the first minor trait of the elite spec. If you did all hero points in Tyria, you have 212 spare hero points, enough to unlock at least the first minor trait plus some more. Plus, a single hero challenge in the jungle is worth 10 hero points.

There may be lots of things to talk about with that expansion (does the majority of players who keep the game alive with their money, really need raids which are not for them?). Elite Specs do not seem to be one of them for me, though.

RedDeadFred.1256:

They’re called ELITE specializations for a reason guys. It’s part of the progression.

The thing is the Elite Specializations are only “Elite” in the name and the fact that you can only have one Elite line slotted at a time. They aren’t intended to be better than the base profession.

I don’t care about all of this “progression” nonsense. I just want to have the new specs and playstyles be easy to unlock. Make the new runes, sigils, and skins be the thing that costs a ton of HP to unlock. Just allow us to get the trait line and the skills easily.

Mala.3861:

Julischka Bean.7491:

Noooooo….Colin…..difficulty wise the expansion is only for the top notch players….players like me, players like me who are clutzes… will never get a chance at the Elite specs…I am seriously about to cry here.

I bought the expansion, I did the Betas, I fell in love with Reaper, and Berzserker, and scrapper….I, I, I have been farming Hero Points on all my 33 plus characters like a mad thing….I learned to Jump up to Vistas well enough to get Map Complete on one of my characters, and now…..now I am told that the door to the elites have been slammed shut in my face.

Look at my account and you will see all the work I have done. Look at my buying History, I have been a..what do you call it?..a whale? I have played almost every day for three years….

I, I, I am sorry I am old enough to your Grandma and have lousy coordination…Darn, I am crying now…seriously. I was looking forward to this so much……

Lisa.

I could have written this. I am exactly like you. I love this game. I play almost every day. I have lousy coordination and many facets of the game are not available to me through my own limitations. I am not even sure I will be able to play in the Jungle due to the motion sickness that hit me every beta weekend after only a few hours in those tight quarters.

But, even if I couldn’t make through the jungle content I was so looking forward to the new specs… the scrapper.. the tempest.. etc. Which I found out today won’t be available to me.

How disappointing.

I offered to Julischka and I offer to you, join me (NA) for some HP unlocking fun. I’m not uber in my reflexes either but I can manage most any PvE that doesn’t involve timed jumps Add me in game and poke me once HoT launches. I expect to be living in the game as of launch!

I can’t help with the motion sickness other than sharing my camera settings. I get super queasy if my camera’s too close to my character while moving (I swear, I can’t watch Wooden Potato vids any more because I get so ill, and I had to leave the last live stream early when all the moving around in the guild halls got to me). But with my preferred zoom outs? No problem at all.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

It seems to be just one more thing to bloat play time with working to have fun later rather than sooner, and one more indicator they have little faith in the new content to hold us without all these asinine time sinks.

I agree with this person.
As far as my opinion goes; it’s not an outrage or out of anger. It’s literally just disbelief and disappointment. I don’t find it logical or engaging. It’s pretty much illusion of progression to me and forces a certain gameplay. Also not alt-friendly.

displacedTitan.6897:

Doug.4930:

Mightybird.6034:

Doug.4930:

The worst part is that even if we can convince Anet to reduce the hero points needed, it will still probably be too much. I was having nightmare’s about 170 points.

I mean some of us have Jobs and families. How are we supposed to unlock this in a reasonable amount of time after paying for the expansions ahead of time? If I had known this was going to be introduced I would never have bought the expansion.

Youre talking about half mapping two whole zones of hero point challenges….Seriously this is too much for you?

In a word:

YES.

Honestly… if a couple hours of playtime is going to DESTROY YOUR LIFE maybe playing games just isn’t in the cards right now. Pick up a hobby that takes less time from your work/family.

Ask anet, they probably want everyone inworld and happily buying gems instead …

[btw, unless the 40 jungle points are super-fast try them on more than 1 character]

What if it was the other way around:
You are a pve-nerd in this game, you think mapping is fun, you dont care fighting other ppl hence you never set foot in wvw or pvp, but suddenly youre forced to spent days in wvw farming hero points there, just to be able to return to your beloved pve-content with your elite spec, would you be really fine with this? Dont think so.

Just got the news, and I am legit angry right now. To sum it up, to unlock the elite specializations, AKA the main reason I bought HoT in the first place, I have to

-Go through the new maps to get hero points
——-Which are then gated behind mastery points
—————With mastery points gated behind mastery points
———————-Which are locked behind story and events, AKA the "I’ll get to it later because I want to have fun with the e-spec.
—————————-Which is designed in such a scale specifically to trivialize the entirety of map completion and legacy hero points, and do nothing else.

So I need to do the story and the events to get the mastery points that allow me to get the other mastery points which allow me to get the hero points which will allow me to get the e-specs, with the entire system built solely with the intention to make all of the hero points you could’ve earned prior to this time useless.

No, this is unacceptable. You know what should’ve happened? The new e-spec should cost 200 points, and each hero point in Maguma should be worth 5. There. That way, if you bothered to do map completion or at least bothered to get all of the challenges, you can get the E-spec, but if you didn’t you can just do HoT content to get those hero points. That way, everyone wins. With the current system, everyone loses.

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

Expecting world completion to give you the whole thing is silly. It gives you a significant head start. A head start you absolutely earned, but that you don’t actually need if you don’t want to repeat old content. Hitting all the hero challenges will similarly give you more points than you need so you have a head start on the next elite spec if you’re into it.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps and jump on the sure-to-be-formed EOTM “lets ruin EOTM by using it to farm” train that people who want WvW stuff without actually playing WvW set up already anyway.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

As to the argument that it’s alt unfriendly… it’s leveling. It’s actually more alt friendly than leveling is already. Masteries are account bound, meaning that after that first character you can stroll in to the jungle on all your alts for those extra hero points with all your fancy gliding, mushroom, etc. masteries and get to those points way faster. It’s very close to letting your alts benefit from unlocked waypoints in core. Each alt is going to be stacking mastry xp that’s going to make that progression easier for the next alt.

Were you just expecting each new elite spec to be patched in and immediately unlocked? Where’s the character progression there? That’s just a feature patch.

slamfunction.7462:

Inkida.8925:

Well I feel like a huge fool for spending the last couple weeks getting all the hero points on several alts with prominent elite specs. I could have just waited and gotten far more per hero point challenge if i did absolutely nothing and waited for HoT. Then I’d just have to do around 40 instead of 254. On six alts. And it’s worse for some of the other altaholics around here.

Rage aside, why are they only telling us this now? We’ve been asking for months about how many hero points, discussing our plans to actually play through the story/jungle with our elite specs, and the devs choose 3 days before launch to tell us.

You’re going to be using those points on other masteries. Like 400 just to unlock your class specialization, then the others on things like mushroom jumping, precursor crafting, gliding, and etc. So, definitely not in vane to get those HPs.

Not quite — you can’t spend HP on masteries. Only on traits/skills/elite skins and runes.

But it’s not wasted, especially if 200 points makes you a viable Elite and then you only need 20 more jungle HP’s done for your full unlock. Less zerg rushing needed! More time to just explore and experience!

PopeUrban.2578:

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

People with multiple characters who are wanting to test out the elite specs on or near day 1. Having to do the same hero challenges over and over again to unlock the specs would get tiring, even for the player who enjoys map exploration.

PopeUrban.2578:

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps and jump on the sure-to-be-formed EOTM “lets ruin EOTM by using it to farm” train that people who want WvW stuff without actually playing WvW set up already anyway.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

Do you know what roaming in WvW is like?

Neva Eilhart.5347:

Khenzy.9348:

Jeez! It’s just 20 HP if you already have world completion. Or just (maybe) 40 if you don’t. You’re most likely going to get all of them in a single day, or in two to three days at most if you’re the “rushing” type.
You’re not going to get your elite spec instantly, and that’s totally fine, deal with it! And then you’re the same people that complain about lack of progression!

This community is so incredibly spoiled beyond belief.

Yeah, and now we’ll see huge zergs rushing through HP without caring about anything the new maps bring, just to unlock this spec, as you said, two or three days later. As if two or three days of HP farm-fest is going to provide players with a progression feeling.

This decision is a lazy one. You either gate content behind heavy-content stuff, or you give it to the players for “free” (considering players have to buy the xpac first). But you don’t lock it behind a system players will rush through in 24 hours. I mean, it isn’t hard to go to a point and hit “F” on your keyboard 40 times. It just annoys everyone who has tons of rerolls, newcomers who bought the xpac, and players who were expecting to play Revenant. And trust me, they won’t care about this “progression feeling” at all.

Most of you are throwing nonsensical hyperboles such as “just going to a point and press F”. A lazy decision? What/how do you even know how are these hero points going to be obtained? If you don’t like some of the hero challenges, or you don’t find them fun, you’re welcomed to come here to the forums and suggest alternatives, but these flat statements (before relase even!) have little to no contribution

Elite specializations have to have some gating and progression behind them, even if just the perception of it. Don’t expect them to be given to you the moment you log into the expansion the first time ever.

radioAspen.6829:

Can we stop calling people who went out and did entire world completion on their alts just to prepare for this “casual/lazy/want everything handed to them/whatever.”

I think the disparity here is what’s really awkward and shocking. It’s like, what’s the point of doing normal hero challenges now when one challenge in the jungle gives you more points than entire non-Orr maps in central Tyria

Anet is deliberately making the real world into a free-to-play realm, minimizng it’s value to veterans.

Which is a silly thing to do with 90% of available content.

Their goal is to make the old world unattractive so veterans buy the expansion. Levelling alts, however, can only be done in the old world. Perhaps they dislike altitis?

ColinJohanson.2394:

Unlocking your elite spec is a training line in your training panel that costs hero points. You do need to have trained all the existing training lines before you’re allowed to put hero points into your elite spec.

If you’ve got all the hero points in the existing game you’ll have enough to train about half the elite specialization training line on launch day. The rest you’ll need to earn in the jungle or via the new system Tyler outlined yesterday from WvW. The number of points to fully train your elite spec is higher than other training lines – but hero challenges in the jungle are worth 10 points each, so it’s not actually as big as it appears.

I’m not going to lie I am highly disappointed all you have to do for elite spec is have all other trait lines and invest hero points. That’s just not epic at all. Least you could have done was make 1 instance with some decent story as to how you obtain the ability to become that specialization. Hell for all I cared you could have even used collections, but just hero points? HIghly underwhelming.

PopeUrban.2578:

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps and jump on the sure-to-be-formed EOTM “lets ruin EOTM by using it to farm” train that people who want WvW stuff without actually playing WvW set up already anyway.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

Your question/statement at the end has been answered multiple times.

You are grinding it over and over again, If you want to get elite specs on multiple characters. You are grinding it if you want it quickly. It’s disincentive to sit back and enjoy the content, if you want the elite specs.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

PopeUrban.2578:

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps and jump on the sure-to-be-formed EOTM “lets ruin EOTM by using it to farm” train that people who want WvW stuff without actually playing WvW set up already anyway.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

Your question/statement at the end has been answered multiple times.

You are grinding it over and over again, If you want to get elite specs on multiple characters. You are grinding it if you want it quickly. It’s disincentive to sit back and enjoy the content, if you want the elite specs.

Again explain to me how this is different than leveling.

Or gearing alts.

Is the problem that you’re actually expected to play characters to advance them?

If you don’t like playing those characters, why do you care about their elite specs?

I just don’t understand it.

though I think it be easier to do alts, since a lot of the resources are account bound, like the masteries.

Sytherek.7689:

radioAspen.6829:

Can we stop calling people who went out and did entire world completion on their alts just to prepare for this “casual/lazy/want everything handed to them/whatever.”

I think the disparity here is what’s really awkward and shocking. It’s like, what’s the point of doing normal hero challenges now when one challenge in the jungle gives you more points than entire non-Orr maps in central Tyria

Anet is deliberately making the real world into a free-to-play realm, minimizng it’s value to veterans.

Which is a silly thing to do with 90% of available content.

Their goal is to make the old world unattractive so veterans buy the expansion. Levelling alts, however, can only be done in the old world. Perhaps they dislike altitis?

The jungle does look awesome. But it does seem really odd to give ten times the HPs in the jungle. It introduces a vertical progression typically reserved for trinity MMOs to GW2, which was all about horizontal progression – the HPs are just levels, essentially. Pre expac, I could go nuts in Queensdale for days grinding out events if I wanted (Queensdale is still one of my favourite areas of the game).

What if I don’t like the jungle? What if I like it for a while and then prefer the mustiness of the old world to the endless greenery? Why can’t I get the same progression in the old world at even an approximate pace? It’s jungle overdose time.

(The jungle could be awesome, but as Fawlty Towers put it):

BBasil Fawlty: So, uh, this is your new menu.
Colonel Hall: [reading] Duck with orange; duck with cherries; duck surprise.
Mrs. Hall: What’s duck surprise?
Basil Fawlty: Er… that’s duck without orange or cherries.
Colonel Hall: I mean, is this all there is – duck?
Basil Fawlty: Umm… yes… done, of course, in three extremely different ways.
Colonel Hall: And what do you do if you don’t like duck?
Basil Fawlty: Ah, well, if you don’t like duck, uhhh, you’re rather stuck.

cygnus.8913:

Sytherek.7689:

radioAspen.6829:

Can we stop calling people who went out and did entire world completion on their alts just to prepare for this “casual/lazy/want everything handed to them/whatever.”

I think the disparity here is what’s really awkward and shocking. It’s like, what’s the point of doing normal hero challenges now when one challenge in the jungle gives you more points than entire non-Orr maps in central Tyria

Anet is deliberately making the real world into a free-to-play realm, minimizng it’s value to veterans.

Which is a silly thing to do with 90% of available content.

Their goal is to make the old world unattractive so veterans buy the expansion. Levelling alts, however, can only be done in the old world. Perhaps they dislike altitis?

The jungle does look awesome. But it does seem really odd to give ten times the HPs in the jungle. It introduces a vertical progression typically reserved for trinity MMOs to GW2, which was all about horizontal progression – the HPs are just levels, essentially. Pre expac, I could go nuts in Queensdale for days grinding out events if I wanted (Queensdale is still one of my favourite areas of the game).

What if I don’t like the jungle? What if I like it for a while and then prefer the mustiness of the old world to the endless greenery? Why can’t I get the same progression in the old world at even an approximate pace? It’s jungle overdose time.

(The jungle could be awesome, but as Fawlty Towers put it):

BBasil Fawlty: So, uh, this is your new menu.
Colonel Hall: [reading] Duck with orange; duck with cherries; duck surprise.
Mrs. Hall: What’s duck surprise?
Basil Fawlty: Er… that’s duck without orange or cherries.
Colonel Hall: I mean, is this all there is – duck?
Basil Fawlty: Umm… yes… done, of course, in three extremely different ways.
Colonel Hall: And what do you do if you don’t like duck?
Basil Fawlty: Ah, well, if you don’t like duck, uhhh, you’re rather stuck.

more or less, I think it worth more, because some players do not, or have not, done all the hero challenge in the core world, and are trying to not force that old content. It was nice of them I think.

But I LOVE herald.

I really like heard a lot but couldn’t get into revenant.

So….I am forced to do things with a class I do not enjoy, to unlock what I want to play. But then can’t do hero points again with the class I actually want to play and do things with.

To many hero points. It’s insane.

This is just flat out terrible. Core gameplay should NOT be gated behind a grind. Some of us play 9+ characters. You want to shut cosmetics behind grinds? You want to shut toys and vanity items behind grinds? You want to shut proportionate rewards behind grinds? Sure. Cool.
But it’s just plain bad design to shut core gameplay for the expansion specs out behind a long grind.

If you can unlock all the traits and skills in short order, that’s fine. It’s ok for the special skins to then take another 200+ points to unlock. But people are going to despise running around for the first week with a half-finished traitline and missing abilities.

Feeling forced to dash off into the jungle and skip content and rush hero points so I can fill out my trait line is going to directly reduce my desire to play GW2. When I think “I feel like playing my Mesmer now that Chronomancer is available” and then remember I need 100+ more points to unlock Chronomancer abilities and traits and the only way to get those points is to grind WvW or to skip jungle content in favor of focusing on hero challenges, I may well just not bother. Because this issue won’t just come up for Chronomancer. It’ll come up for Reaper, and Daredevil, and Berserker, and Tempest. It’ll come up for every single spec.

This is an incredibly alt-unfriendly design decision.

cygnus.8913:

Sytherek.7689:

radioAspen.6829:

Can we stop calling people who went out and did entire world completion on their alts just to prepare for this “casual/lazy/want everything handed to them/whatever.”

I think the disparity here is what’s really awkward and shocking. It’s like, what’s the point of doing normal hero challenges now when one challenge in the jungle gives you more points than entire non-Orr maps in central Tyria

Anet is deliberately making the real world into a free-to-play realm, minimizng it’s value to veterans.

Which is a silly thing to do with 90% of available content.

Their goal is to make the old world unattractive so veterans buy the expansion. Levelling alts, however, can only be done in the old world. Perhaps they dislike altitis?

The jungle does look awesome. But it does seem really odd to give ten times the HPs in the jungle. It introduces a vertical progression typically reserved for trinity MMOs to GW2, which was all about horizontal progression – the HPs are just levels, essentially. Pre expac, I could go nuts in Queensdale for days grinding out events if I wanted (Queensdale is still one of my favourite areas of the game).

What if I don’t like the jungle? What if I like it for a while and then prefer the mustiness of the old world to the endless greenery? Why can’t I get the same progression in the old world at even an approximate pace? It’s jungle overdose time.

(The jungle could be awesome, but as Fawlty Towers put it):

BBasil Fawlty: So, uh, this is your new menu.
Colonel Hall: [reading] Duck with orange; duck with cherries; duck surprise.
Mrs. Hall: What’s duck surprise?
Basil Fawlty: Er… that’s duck without orange or cherries.
Colonel Hall: I mean, is this all there is – duck?
Basil Fawlty: Umm… yes… done, of course, in three extremely different ways.
Colonel Hall: And what do you do if you don’t like duck?
Basil Fawlty: Ah, well, if you don’t like duck, uhhh, you’re rather stuck.

The basic argument is that the jungle is harder content, and many of these may require masteries to reach. In addition they may be just plain harder to obtain in a mechanical sense compared to core tyria. Fights or jumping sections could be harder, etc.

The theme of HoT is “PvE that doesn’t suck” compared to core tyria where literally everything in the open world can be accomplished by hitting 1 and rolling your face across the keyboard. It’s basic risk/reward mechanics at work.

How well anet balances challenge with the HP payout remains to be seen, but that’s the general idea at work.

Also keep in mind that hero points are a finite resource, but elite specs are not. Elite specs are an ongoing system, and that necessitates a relationships between the specs and offering more hero points. This means that hero challenges are considered, like mastry points, an ongoing advancement system to make sure new maps, expansions, etc. have content in them that players need to do for the sake of horizontal progression so that there’s a compelling sense of ongoing character progression throughout new content.

cygnus.8913:

For one character I’m sure it’ll be fine. But it depends on how much content there is in HoT – we have four new zones and no way of knowing how much landmass we’ll actually have to play with. The cynic in me thinks this requirement is to compensate for what isn’t going to be a lot of content by time-gating access to elite specs with this many HPs.

For your first character you’ll also unlock other masteries like gliding and mushrooms etc etc, which would make reaching those hero points on alts significantly less time consuming. Even just unlocking level one gliding made moving around the BWE areas really easy, having to hit up a dozen or two hero points is nothing, unless they somehow gate those hero points by typing them to meta events.

Seera.5916:

People with multiple characters who are wanting to test out the elite specs on or near day 1. Having to do the same hero challenges over and over again to unlock the specs would get tiring, even for the player who enjoys map exploration.

This is partly Anet’s fault for not revealing how much would be required for unlocking the elites, but if people just want to mess around with elite specs on day one, why don’t they just go into PvP? Acquiring your elite spec is supposed to be similar to leveling a profession in the first place, and you were always able to just hop into HotM to experiment at any level.

I’m a bit disappointed that I’ll have to wait a while longer to get my hands on my elites, but if people think this is going to be an even remotely restrictive grind they’re really overreacting.

TJgalon.5012:

cygnus.8913:

RedDeadFred.1256:

Honestly, I think this is a very good thing. This system encourages you to fully explore the jungle while still allowing you to make up some of the difference with central Tyria mastery points.

They’re called ELITE specializations for a reason guys. It’s part of the progression. I’d much rather have this than some stupid gear grind. This way, instead of just powercreeping up, you’re gradually unlocking some new skills, traits, skins, and runes.

No, you won’t have your Elite Spec fully completed on day 1 (well, maybe you will if you go hard enough), but I’m pretty sure that’s the POINT. It gives you something tangible to work towards while still enjoying the expansion. If you people consider this grind, it means you consider simply playing the game a grind. If that’s the case, why are you still playing?

For one character I’m sure it’ll be fine. But it depends on how much content there is in HoT – we have four new zones and no way of knowing how much landmass we’ll actually have to play with. The cynic in me thinks this requirement is to compensate for what isn’t going to be a lot of content by time-gating access to elite specs with this many HPs.

You need 60 hp after all is unlock on your character. level 80 already nets you all that more or less. any extra goes towards the other. so if you just did level 80 and that it, you can easily do 6 jungle hero challenge and bam elite time. True, unsure how easy 6 will be, but in the beta, I recall at least 3 in easy reach, though I explore more then worry about them.

This is so wrong that it borderlines on misinformation. To unlock EVERYTHING on an elite you need 400 HP. The 60 you mention is just to OPEN the new trait line. 60 to open then 340 to max it out.

PopeUrban.2578:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

PopeUrban.2578:

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps and jump on the sure-to-be-formed EOTM “lets ruin EOTM by using it to farm” train that people who want WvW stuff without actually playing WvW set up already anyway.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

Your question/statement at the end has been answered multiple times.

You are grinding it over and over again, If you want to get elite specs on multiple characters. You are grinding it if you want it quickly. It’s disincentive to sit back and enjoy the content, if you want the elite specs.

Again explain to me how this is different than leveling.

Or gearing alts.

Is the problem that you’re actually expected to play characters to advance them?

If you don’t like playing those characters, why do you care about their elite specs?

I just don’t understand it.

The game does allow you to largely bypass the leveling process via tomes, and before that there was crafting. Gearing alts can just be done with gold, something that can be obtained anywhere in game. You can approach either issue with a myriad of ways.

It’s a bit different. You can have an 80 geared in exotics or even ascended with minimal interaction. I would suspect many of us have that in mind to have an instant 80 Rev.

Tasao.4623:

Core gameplay should NOT be gated behind a grind.

What are you even talking about? In the core game, don’t you have to level to 80 in order to go to cursed shores? So cursed shores is gated behind a grind as well, isn’kitten

PopeUrban.2578:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

PopeUrban.2578:

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps and jump on the sure-to-be-formed EOTM “lets ruin EOTM by using it to farm” train that people who want WvW stuff without actually playing WvW set up already anyway.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

Your question/statement at the end has been answered multiple times.

You are grinding it over and over again, If you want to get elite specs on multiple characters. You are grinding it if you want it quickly. It’s disincentive to sit back and enjoy the content, if you want the elite specs.

Again explain to me how this is different than leveling.

Or gearing alts.

Is the problem that you’re actually expected to play characters to advance them?

If you don’t like playing those characters, why do you care about their elite specs?

I just don’t understand it.

Some people want to test out the new content on or right on top of day 1. Elite specs are part of that new content. Not having access to all of the traits can influence whether or not you like a spec or not. Players who want to test out all of the elite specs have to get enough HP’s for 8 characters. That’s a lot of hero challenges. Unless the jungle is littered with a ton of Hero challenges, that’s doing the same content 8 times. With the first time requiring additional time due to masteries. And that could feel like a grind to some. And while it is voluntary grind, it is still grind that up until today those players weren’t aware they were going to have to go through.

I feel the the timing of this news has made the number of HP’s needed a lot worse than it would have been had they said it several weeks ago.

I’d rather pay gold to unlock this stuff lol

People shouldn’t too much forget what this expansion is : a big bundled season2.
You’ll have 4 maps like SW or DT, though bigger, but with the same big meta event system. Scattered on those maps there will be story instances and hero point….. + all the fluff with npc, lore, jumping puzzles….
Everybody will jump in the new map, discovering the mechanics of map 1 while exploring a bit (grabbing hero point), doing some story. Then what? well go to map 2 (especially since people like to feel the first, I’m sure there will be people in map 2 after 30 minutes ), repeat the process.
Within the first hours, you’ll have quite a bunch of points to unlock elite spec and try your new builds and ideas on the same first maps….
This until you are fed up because there is no content so you jump on alt 1 and redo the same sans the story (b/c a lot of people say it’s boring) but with gliding/mushrooms opened so you can rush to hero points and map 2, 3 and 4 without any gate and with knowing the way.
Basically I wouldn’t be surprised that getting points on alts will be half the time compared to the main : yeah exactly like when we now levels alts compare to our first toon at release…
So before the raids are released a lot of people will have 4 to 5 toons with elite specs, made the 4 maps several time and get the new shinies on them, complain that the game is dry of content and that the story was bad…

Halvorn.9831:

Tasao.4623:

Core gameplay should NOT be gated behind a grind.

What are you even talking about? In the core game, don’t you have to level to 80 in order to go to cursed shores? So cursed shores is gated behind a grind as well, isn’kitten

Nope, you can take a low level into Cursed Shore. The boundary doesn’t require you to be level 80.

i just hope most of the hero points in hot are easily reachable and soloable….otherwise it will be quite annoying to get them for al the alts

PopeUrban.2578:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

PopeUrban.2578:

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps and jump on the sure-to-be-formed EOTM “lets ruin EOTM by using it to farm” train that people who want WvW stuff without actually playing WvW set up already anyway.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

Your question/statement at the end has been answered multiple times.

You are grinding it over and over again, If you want to get elite specs on multiple characters. You are grinding it if you want it quickly. It’s disincentive to sit back and enjoy the content, if you want the elite specs.

Again explain to me how this is different than leveling.

Or gearing alts.

Is the problem that you’re actually expected to play characters to advance them?

If you don’t like playing those characters, why do you care about their elite specs?

I just don’t understand it.

The problem is that I don’t really think you want to understand it.

You can level alts without really doing anything, finish tutorial, turn around, and walk into town, run to crafting stations, and level. Or you can do a mix, you don’t just HAVE to run around to each heart, etc. You had, gasp, freedom to choose how you wanted to level. If you really wanted to do EotM to level, at least after it was added, you could. Crafting has always existed, we now have Tomes to level as well. Point though, is people want the freedom to play how they enjoy, not to sit and do the exact same thing on every character just to have the freedom to play their character how they want.

In fact, this is a large part of the disconnect. Some people seem to be incapable of understanding that not everyone likes PvE, or that others only like to do it some. Of course for those of us that really did enjoy WvW and not from a zerging standpoint, that’s irrelevant now anyways, our entire ‘end-game’ is being changed and not necessarily for the better but that’s an entire different argument.

I do like PvE as well, but what I don’t like, is having to do the same thing over, and over, and over. I don’t play the same character constantly in pve. And when I played primarily one class in WvW, I changed it up occasionally even then, and I wouldn’t really play that character in pve because of it. I don’t do the same dungeons repeatedly. But if we want the elite specs? We are forced to do the same things, repeatedly.

I saw a good response on this, when someone said it was a good thing, you should enjoy the game as a player.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

I’m an artist and I enjoy drawing.
I don’t enjoy drawing the exact same picture 9 times.

So to mitigate this repetitive nature, means I have no idea when I might get elite specs on more than one class, and it also means there are some I will not be getting them on, because I don’t feel it’s worth the effort to do 10+ times.

Is that 400 points in total or 400 points just for the skills and traits?

The reason I ask is because I think someone said before that the weapon and armour skins were at the end of the track to be unlocked so all the functional stuff could be gotten first (I think it was a PoI, but not too sure), in which case it wouldn’t be 400 points to unlock the track, skills and traits.

Ranael.6423:

People shouldn’t too much forget what this expansion is : a big bundled season2.
You’ll have 4 maps like SW or DT, though bigger, but with the same big meta event system. Scattered on those maps there will be story instances and hero point….. + all the fluff with npc, lore, jumping puzzles….
Everybody will jump in the new map, discovering the mechanics of map 1 while exploring a bit (grabbing hero point), doing some story. Then what? well go to map 2 (especially since people like to feel the first, I’m sure there will be people in map 2 after 30 minutes ), repeat the process.
Within the first hours, you’ll have quite a bunch of points to unlock elite spec and try your new builds and ideas on the same first maps….
This until you are fed up because there is no content so you jump on alt 1 and redo the same sans the story (b/c a lot of people say it’s boring) but with gliding/mushrooms opened so you can rush to hero points and map 2, 3 and 4 without any gate and with knowing the way.
Basically I wouldn’t be surprised that getting points on alts will be half the time compared to the main : yeah exactly like when we now levels alts compare to our first toon at release…
So before the raids are released a lot of people will have 4 to 5 toons with elite specs, made the 4 maps several time and get the new shinies on them, complain that the game is dry of content and that the story was bad…

You’re missing the fact that several people wanted to test out the elite specs on day 1 or right on top of day 1 (depending on if they wanted to do the Halloween content). With the information we have currently, that may not be possible. And some people are miffed that they’re finding this out 3 days before launch.

Ranael.6423:

People shouldn’t too much forget what this expansion is : a big bundled season2.
You’ll have 4 maps like SW or DT, though bigger, but with the same big meta event system. Scattered on those maps there will be story instances and hero point….. + all the fluff with npc, lore, jumping puzzles….
Everybody will jump in the new map, discovering the mechanics of map 1 while exploring a bit (grabbing hero point), doing some story. Then what? well go to map 2 (especially since people like to feel the first, I’m sure there will be people in map 2 after 30 minutes ), repeat the process.
Within the first hours, you’ll have quite a bunch of points to unlock elite spec and try your new builds and ideas on the same first maps….
This until you are fed up because there is no content so you jump on alt 1 and redo the same sans the story (b/c a lot of people say it’s boring) but with gliding/mushrooms opened so you can rush to hero points and map 2, 3 and 4 without any gate and with knowing the way.
Basically I wouldn’t be surprised that getting points on alts will be half the time compared to the main : yeah exactly like when we now levels alts compare to our first toon at release…
So before the raids are released a lot of people will have 4 to 5 toons with elite specs, made the 4 maps several time and get the new shinies on them, complain that the game is dry of content and that the story was bad…

It would be the same if they made maps like the core ones and included 15+.