Guild Wars 2

Seera.5916:

Black Box.9312:

Seera.5916:

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Random.4691:

Seriously the lack of red post, not that I should be surprised, it’s like that child that was caught doing something they shouldn’t so they just hide because that makes everything better. I guess they really didn’t learn from their FAQ scandal.

Given that the vast majority of the complaints in this thread are by a small handful of people and that most of it was posted during Anet’s downtime, this really shouldn’t be a surprise.
People are trying to be very loud about their complaints, but so far the actual number of people complaining really isn’t that high.

That and we’re within 2 days of launch. The devs may not have time for posting on the forums that much or the permission to interrupt the devs that know the answers to the questions we have about this.

They have people who are working for them for the literal purpose of relaying messages to and from the community and dev teams. This is not a valid excuse.

Yes, but the dev teams may be too busy to answer questions given how close we are to launch. So the messengers have told to only interrupt if it’s important and they may not view giving explanation for the choice as important enough to warrant an interruption.

Well, I’d say that this is kind of important, judging by the degree of the current backlash over it.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

That’s not how you phrased it before though.

Sure to this post.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

That’s not how you phrased it before though.

Sure to this post.

Yes it is exactly how I phrased it, please don’t tell me what I meant by my own posts. Please quote where I phrased it any differently and I can explain how you misread it.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

That’s not how you phrased it before though.

Sure to this post.

Yes it is exactly how I phrased it, please don’t tell me what I meant by my own posts. Please quote where I phrased it any differently and I can explain how you misread it.

What you meant and what you said were two different things. Go reread those two posts again and you’ll see.

It happens to the best of us, it’s ok buddy

Endlos.4852:

Until Colin’s post yesterday, we had no idea that the elite spec would require us to 100% unlock the base class before letting us touch the new toys.

I expected a huge hero point investment. That’s why I saved 100-220 points on my level 80s in anticipation of elite specs. What I did not expect was that I’d have to dump literally hundreds of points into traits and skills that I will never use just to get the ability to start spending points on the fun new thing I paid for.

It doesn’t make any sense, and it doesn’t fit the pre-existing philosophy of the game. An engineer doesn’t have to learn elixirs before he or she can learn turrets, but for some reason has to learn both elixirs and turrets (as well as everything else) before being able to learn how to use drones?

These elite specs were touted by the development staff as “alternatives, not direct upgrades” and yet their pricing and unlock structure fits exactly what an “upgrade” would constitute: Completely max out your class, then you can experiment with the so-called side-grade/optional playstyle; The “optional playstyle” requires you to first invest hundreds of points into stuff that you literally cannot even use all at once in a single build. It simply doesn’t make sense.

Actually it does make sense.
Think of it like becoming a doctor. You have to do your time learning general medicine. Once you have learnt all the basics, then, if you wish, you can choose to further specialise in a specific area (cardiologist, neurosurgeon, etc). The “Core specialisations” are the fundamentals of your class, you must learn all of them before you can specialise in something further.
This has been how they have talked about elite vs core spec for pretty much the whole time.
Elite specs are alternatives, but they are treated differently. You earn enough HP while levelling to gain all of your core specs, and you cannot even start an elite specialisation until you’re level 80. This has been known for quite some time. And when you remember that more are coming and to think of them as different to the core specs it continues to make sense. You didn’t need to learn elixars to unlock turrets, sure. But you need a good grounding in all of the core parts of your class before you can go on to to learn fancier different stuff. Once the next elite spec is out it’s almost certain you won’t need to learn scrapper before you can learn it. The elite specs are another tier of specialisation.

Importantly, you cannot refund hero points spent. So, assuming allowing hero point refunds is off the table, and it most certainly seems to be for them, then they had two choices:
- require full core specs and skills to be unlocked, which you can do just for reaching level 80 with no extra effort and keep elite specs as a new tier of specs.
- don’t require the base class to be fully completed making it harder for people who made irrevocable choices to spend their points before they knew this was an option.

The second option has a further design issue, it acts as a disincentive for people to try out the different possibilities of their class as they level.

Endlos.4852:

It’s made even more frustrating the way that “old world” hero challenges are completely invalidated since they are only worth 1/10th of the Jungle hero challenges, effectively funneling everyone that wants an elite spec into the new zone and trivializing the value of the old world content.

Basically, every single way this is set up reeks of “traditional linear theme park MMO expansion” where “increased level cap from 80 to 90” is replaced with “grind hero points in the new zones” and I thought Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be the different, special snowflake, not a grindy content funnel into the new parts of the map.

No it is not really like a level cap increase at all.
The major difference here is that optional part you mentioned earlier. The key part of level and gear treadmill model is that all progress previously is essentially now pointless except for having you be a high enough level to start the new content.
Your HP can still be spent, but the new stuff is just expensive. Arguably, that has a little bit of the treadmill flavour to it. A little bit. However, that’s the only part. Your character is still just as strong as it was and it won’t get any stronger. Your gear is just as strong as it was and you still can’t get any better.
As per below, they had a design issue existing hero points. Getting them faster/easier in the new content was their answer to that problem.

Daddar.5971:

I have been here since before core game launch. I have 17 lv 80 toons. I spend almost all my time in WvW. I know I can earn the elites there, but doing the math leads me to the conclusion that I simply need to find another game. We have been asking forever for hard numbers on hero points needed for unlock. I bought the ultimate edition despite the lack of info because I trusted A-Net to be reasonable. I was wrong.

The problem with asking for hard numbers is that they’ve most likely known for sometime what the design goal was with how many HP it would take, but had not settled on a specific number until very recently. So they couldn’t give you a hard number count.
I’m almost certain the design goal was “we want people with world completion to have a good portion of the elite spec line unlocked, but we do not want them to have it instantly completed”. Then it’s a matter of settling specifically how they do that.

When “doing the math” remember that we have no idea what most of the important numbers in that math are at the moment. We have no idea how many HP are in the expansion map, all we know is that there are more than enough for a level 80 with no other HP. We don’t know how many more. We also don’t know if they’re any more difficult than the normal world ones. We know that you can gain HP from doing WvW now, which is good, but we don’t know how many Proofs of Heroics you get from WvW levels. It could be one per level (which would suck), it could be ten per level. It could have some sort of alternating amount. They could be lootable items on top of the level up ones.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

That’s not how you phrased it before though.

Sure to this post.

Yes it is exactly how I phrased it, please don’t tell me what I meant by my own posts. Please quote where I phrased it any differently and I can explain how you misread it.

What you meant and what you said were two different things. Go reread those two posts again and you’ll see.

It happened to the best of us, it’s ok buddy

What I said is what I meant and it reads just like I meant it.

So again: please quote what reads differently than how I stated it in the other post. Please.

DeWolfe.2174:

PopeUrban.2578:

It’s a matter of taste really. You prefer to pretend your characters have accomplished things. I prefer that my characters actually accomplished things. You’re not wrong, I simply don’t share your viewpoint.

And, whom said my characters have not accomplished things? The issue is the redundancy as we, the real life human being, are the actual entity experiencing and accomplishing things. Now nothing prevents a player from doing content over again per character for their own personal experience. Though forcing players to do content over and over and over again is completely different. A design that will lead to repetitive and non engaging game play. For example, I’m betting the majority of character’s in game do not have map complete. Why is that, because the human being doesn’t want to do it again and again. Especially when it’s such a poor experience to do but, that’s a different conversation. Though most players I’ve come in contact with have expressed they did it once and never want to do it again. That’s why the game has to be designed around the human experience and not the pixels.

At what point did any game system force you to roll 50 characters?

You chose to roll 50 characters, and I’m guessing many of those were rolled when the game was far less alt friendly than it is now.

There are no material benefits from having more characters leveled up and doing content. In fact the only system that actually makes alts an advantage from a mechanical standpoint is crafting.

Alts aren’t an assumption, they’re an option. That option comes with the understanding that the game is not at a base level designed to require you to roll a bunch of alts.

You chose to roll 50 characters? Great. Good for you!

However the game as a whole is not built around the assumption or requirement that people have giant stables of alts.

It is an option. A pact you signed when you decided to roll them that says “I realize I have to level again, get some new gear, walk to waypoints, and generally put in more effort than I would if I played my existing characters.”

The (PvE) game isn’t designed around alts. They just happen to have been very cool about enabling alts. This is a classic example of people having been given an inch who are now expecting a mile.

Nobody forced you to roll 50 alts, and nobody is forcing you to update 50 alts to elite specs, just like nobody is forcing you to craft a full set of ascended for every single one,or do 100% world completion on every one, or even level every one of them to 80. Those are choices you made, and I’m guessing you put in a lot more time and gold in to gearing alts than I have because it was your choice.

You already chose to go through a massive amount of redundancy by choosing to create so many completely redundant characters. You’re expecting them to cater to people who already clearly enjoy doing the same thing over and over by… not making them do the same thing over and over?

I just don’t get the logic I guess.

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Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Random.4691:

Seriously the lack of red post, not that I should be surprised, it’s like that child that was caught doing something they shouldn’t so they just hide because that makes everything better. I guess they really didn’t learn from their FAQ scandal.

Given that the vast majority of the complaints in this thread are by a small handful of people and that most of it was posted during Anet’s downtime, this really shouldn’t be a surprise.
People are trying to be very loud about their complaints, but so far the actual number of people complaining really isn’t that high.

That and we’re within 2 days of launch. The devs may not have time for posting on the forums that much or the permission to interrupt the devs that know the answers to the questions we have about this.

As always a simple “we are looking into this but no promises” takes less then 5 sec to post. It’s not a time issue its a cowardness issue.

Menadena.7482:

Really? Not high? You DO realize we are on page 28 already, right? This is also not the only thread or forum discussing this.

Yes. There are lots of pages because so many of the people complaining are complaining a lot. Plus people like me who are responding with comments that aren’t complaints. I’ve had time to sleep and come back and still see mostly the same names complaining.
Page number offers no indication on how many people are bothered by this. Oh, and forum admins have been merging threads on this topic into this thread, so there aren’t that many others.

Kaiser.9873:

BobbyT.7192:

Seera.5916:

The one to Rule.2593:

gavyne.6847:

The one to Rule.2593:

So…..get the elite specs?

That’s the core of the complaint, having the elite specs gated behind expansion content. This means we’ll have to play new expansion content with the same ‘ol characters we’ve played for the past 3 years. Likely have to do masteries in order to unlock some hero challenges.

It’s just boring and disappointing to have to play these same ‘ol characters in the new expansion, and have to repeat it over and over and over and over until you’ve done it for all your characters and unlocked their elite specs. All this just so we could play the new elite specs in the new expansion content both in PvE & WvW.

If you don’t understand this, then I’ve got nothing further to say to you. I wish Colin would come back and talk with the playerbase more so players don’t have to tear each other apart on behalf of Anet. It’s clear some are ok with it, some aren’t. No sense letting players kill each other over it because nobody’s going to change anybody’s minds here.

I understand it, it’s just ridiculous that people thought that they were just gonna get their elite specs with no work.

No one was expecting no work, but the amount needed seems high to some, especially to those who have a number of alts.

That’s the life one chooses when they decide to have alts, IMO alts are suppose to be expensive, and time consuming. I would be really rich if it wasn’t for my alts, ( seriously, I made my first legendary for an alt).
Thb, the amount of work is not that high, for what you need, could get done in a few hours.

See the PvE players keep saying, “You can get it done in a few hours.”, but the truth is no one knows how long it will take. What if 30 of the 40 Hero Challenges you need are xp gated behind masteries?

“Hey, want these 5 challenges? Okay master ley line gliding.” 16 million xp later you can go get those 5 challenges. “Hey here’s 7 more challenges, but you have to master super mario mushroom jumping first.” Okay there goes another giant time block. “Ahhhh learn to understand the mysterious language of C’thulu and gain access to 10 more hero challenges.” Get what I’m saying?

I agree to a degree but we really shouldn’t lump all of the PvE players in together, there is plenty that are against this. and as far as my above post they could also say " sorry were are happy with this number" which also took less then 5 sec to type.

Random.4691:

As always a simple “we are looking into this but no promises” takes less then 5 sec to post. It’s not a time issue its a cowardness issue.

Nice. If I were one of the devs comments like that would just give me incentive to let people like you stew longer. To actually look into it, but to not give you a comment like that.
There are myriad reasons they may not be responding.

Sytherek.7689:

Nausicca.6038:

Since raising the level cap in GW2 wouldn’t make any sense like in other MMOs xpacs, Anet have decided to add new specs that we will be able to unlock ( level up) with HP.

Just consider HP as the new XP and elite spec the new level cap.

Some of us bought this game because it lacked treadmills.

Boy, were we wrong.

This isn’t a treadmill.

Let me get this straight, in the current game there are an average of less than 40 challenges per Zone: Maguuma Jungle, Ascalon, Kryta, Shiverpeak Mountains, and Orr. This is proven because there are 5 Zones and 189 Hero Challenges counted toward Map Completion. Assuming that there are at least 40 Hero Challenges in Heart of Thorns means that the Challenge density will be about the same (or greater) as the current game.

You’d require most of this “more than enough” number to get the spec with all its traits and skills, also known as the reason you’re getting it. That isn’t so bad, right? Complete effectively three maps to get an elite specialization?

Even then, I can beeline the 20-40 challenges and get the spec to complete the majority of the game expansion, right? I suppose, but even then, you’re going through most of the maps trying to get around half the available challenges. Why most of the maps? Well, Masteries, of course! Many of the new Hero Challenges will require the new Mastery system’s abilities, like gliding, to be able to access, not to mention that some require more advancement into a Mastery to be able to acces. So, to get my 20 challenges to finally get my spec, I will need to go through most of the content or get most of the Masteries before I can complete the spec with usable Grandmaster traits. (Because I’m totally for having partial specs slotted. They are so useful to have not even half the traits and abilities.) At that point, for many people, most of the point of having the spec – to be able to use it in the new content – is completely wasted by requiring me to go through and discover most/all waypoints so I can beam back if I fall or otherwise die trying to get to the Challenges.

Keep in mind, I don’t have more than one of each class, and my expectation is still to take weeks into months to get these Specializations.

Kaiser.9873:

See the PvE players keep saying, “You can get it done in a few hours.”, but the truth is no one knows how long it will take. What if 30 of the 40 Hero Challenges you need are xp gated behind masteries?

See, I keep seeing the opposite.
I keep seeing WvW players going, “this is bulkitten, we are going to have to gain 400 WvW levels per character” and people assuming the new HP will be ten much harder because they are worth more. And that they’re going to have to complete all the expansion maps to unlock the elite spec.
As I’ve said, we don’t know.
“We have no idea how many HP are in the expansion map, all we know is that there are more than enough for a level 80 with no other HP. We don’t know how many more. We also don’t know if they’re any more difficult than the normal world ones. We know that you can gain HP from doing WvW now, which is good, but we don’t know how many Proofs of Heroics you get from WvW levels. It could be one per level (which would suck), it could be ten per level. It could have some sort of alternating amount. They could be lootable items on top of the level up ones.”

I can’t say it will take no time at all, but neither can you say it will take forever.
We just don’t know yet.

They didn’t raise the level cap, so this is the way they’re having you level up with all characters. Just pretend the level cap was raised, but all of your gear will still be fine.

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Random.4691:

As always a simple “we are looking into this but no promises” takes less then 5 sec to post. It’s not a time issue its a cowardness issue.

Nice. If I were one of the devs comments like that would just give me incentive to let people like you stew longer. To actually look into it, but to not give you a comment like that.
There are myriad reasons they may not be responding.

You clearly missed the point, it takes less then 5 seconds to acknowledge the community.

ananda.5946:

They didn’t raise the level cap, so this is the way they’re having you level up with all characters. Just pretend the level cap was raised, but all of your gear will still be fine.

And you’re already at max level, you just need to do some new challenges before you can use some new, but not necessary abilities. If you choose to replace you old one with them.
Your description more accurately fits the Masteries system. In fact it is the intended purpose of the masteries system.

Seera.5916:

Black Box.9312:

Seera.5916:

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Random.4691:

Seriously the lack of red post, not that I should be surprised, it’s like that child that was caught doing something they shouldn’t so they just hide because that makes everything better. I guess they really didn’t learn from their FAQ scandal.

Given that the vast majority of the complaints in this thread are by a small handful of people and that most of it was posted during Anet’s downtime, this really shouldn’t be a surprise.
People are trying to be very loud about their complaints, but so far the actual number of people complaining really isn’t that high.

That and we’re within 2 days of launch. The devs may not have time for posting on the forums that much or the permission to interrupt the devs that know the answers to the questions we have about this.

They have people who are working for them for the literal purpose of relaying messages to and from the community and dev teams. This is not a valid excuse.

Yes, but the dev teams may be too busy to answer questions given how close we are to launch. So the messengers have told to only interrupt if it’s important and they may not view giving explanation for the choice as important enough to warrant an interruption.

Even if they can not talk directly to a dev they would be given an alternate POC who would make the call on whether to bother a dev.

Remember that Colin came into this thread just yesterday and posted. If they can post on a forum (not even starting an official announcement thread) that close to release then I highly doubt there is a brick wall between them and the world right now.

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

ananda.5946:

They didn’t raise the level cap, so this is the way they’re having you level up with all characters. Just pretend the level cap was raised, but all of your gear will still be fine.

And you’re already at max level, you just need to do some new challenges before you can use some new, but not necessary abilities. If you choose to replace you old one with them.
Your description more accurately fits the Masteries system. In fact it is the intended purpose of the masteries system.

I think they are intertwined. Not all hero points will be accessible without filling in some masteries one would guess. I didn’t say I like it, but I think this is the ‘leveling up’ they came up with.

My main concern is that hot launches in a couple of days and the Mac client is still broken. Playing the new areas in beta, the game crashed every ten mins or so. I guess I won’t be getting hero or mastery points to fill my spec till it is fixed. :P

Random.4691:

You clearly misses the point, it takes less then 5 seconds to acknowledge the community.

And you missed my point. Sometimes a simple response is not the right move.
They may be holding off on responding because the correct people are not currently in office (they have a midnight launch followed by launch weekend, they may be having time off now so as to be on hand for as much of that as possible). They may be choosing to wait and see if this is a big enough issue for enough people that it warrants looking into (as I’ve said, this thread is long, but it’s mostly the same people complaining).
Public/community relations is a complicated and sometimes delicate thing. Look at their response to the “expansion includes the base game” shenanigans. They saw the problem but they took their time looking at the community, the problem and potential solutions, then they made an announcement. That is often how they do things. And while I too sometimes wish they’d respond more, I don’t blame them for not. Given the internet’s skill at misunderstanding and taking things out of context. Heck, while there are some potentially valid issues in this thread, a whole lot of it is people complaining about their own assumptions based on incomplete and misunderstood/misquoted information.

Edit- your op didn’t copy over…

You…
“That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.”

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Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 states that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they would adjust their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes. Both 1 and 2 you mentioned more time for players to prepare so that’s the only consistent message between the two. You made zero reference to anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

ananda.5946:

I think they are intertwined. Not all hero points will be accessible without filling in some masteries one would guess. I didn’t say I like it, but I think this is the ‘leveling up’ they came up with.

My main concern is that hot launches in a couple of days and the Mac client is still broken. Playing the new areas in beta, the game crashed every ten mins or so. I guess I won’t be getting hero or mastery points to fill my spec till it is fixed. :P

Yeah, they are most likely related. The elite specs is also a stated part of their horizontal progression stuff. It being horizontal does make it quite a bit different to the entirely vertical treadmill of WoW. They have some similarities, but they’re very different.

See, that is a pretty kitten solid thing to worry about.
Good luck, and I hope it’s something they’ve managed to fix since the last BWE

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Random.4691:

You clearly misses the point, it takes less then 5 seconds to acknowledge the community.

And you missed my point. Sometimes a simple response is not the right move.
They may be holding off on responding because the correct people are not currently in office (they have a midnight launch followed by launch weekend, they may be having time off now so as to be on hand for as much of that as possible). They may be choosing to wait and see if this is a big enough issue for enough people that it warrants looking into (as I’ve said, this thread is long, but it’s mostly the same people complaining).
Public/community relations is a complicated and sometimes delicate thing. Look at their response to the “expansion includes the base game” shenanigans. They saw the problem but they took their time looking at the community, the problem and potential solutions, then they made an announcement. That is often how they do things. And while I too sometimes wish they’d respond more, I don’t blame them for not. Given the internet’s skill at misunderstanding and taking things out of context. Heck, while there are some potentially valid issues in this thread, a whole lot of it is people complaining about their own assumptions based on incomplete and misunderstood/misquoted information.

Actually in this case I will say (which I normaly would never) you are 100% wrong, the post does not have to address the issue, what it’s intent should be is that they are paying attention to the community. Last time they remained silent it blew up all over the net. It is completely possible to be in touch with your community/customers without leading to any kind of answer. If they are incapable of this small factor then they need to find someone who is capable and hire them for PR issues. This is the very basic of customer service, the type of thing they teach at McDonalds, acknowledge the customer.

ananda.5946:

They didn’t raise the level cap, so this is the way they’re having you level up with all characters. Just pretend the level cap was raised, but all of your gear will still be fine.

I would rather have had the level cap raised. That way I could at least unlock my elite spec just through normal gameplay.

Kaiser.9873:

BobbyT.7192:

Seera.5916:

The one to Rule.2593:

gavyne.6847:

The one to Rule.2593:

So…..get the elite specs?

That’s the core of the complaint, having the elite specs gated behind expansion content. This means we’ll have to play new expansion content with the same ‘ol characters we’ve played for the past 3 years. Likely have to do masteries in order to unlock some hero challenges.

It’s just boring and disappointing to have to play these same ‘ol characters in the new expansion, and have to repeat it over and over and over and over until you’ve done it for all your characters and unlocked their elite specs. All this just so we could play the new elite specs in the new expansion content both in PvE & WvW.

If you don’t understand this, then I’ve got nothing further to say to you. I wish Colin would come back and talk with the playerbase more so players don’t have to tear each other apart on behalf of Anet. It’s clear some are ok with it, some aren’t. No sense letting players kill each other over it because nobody’s going to change anybody’s minds here.

I understand it, it’s just ridiculous that people thought that they were just gonna get their elite specs with no work.

No one was expecting no work, but the amount needed seems high to some, especially to those who have a number of alts.

That’s the life one chooses when they decide to have alts, IMO alts are suppose to be expensive, and time consuming. I would be really rich if it wasn’t for my alts, ( seriously, I made my first legendary for an alt).
Thb, the amount of work is not that high, for what you need, could get done in a few hours.

See the PvE players keep saying, “You can get it done in a few hours.”, but the truth is no one knows how long it will take. What if 30 of the 40 Hero Challenges you need are xp gated behind masteries?

“Hey, want these 5 challenges? Okay master ley line gliding.” 16 million xp later you can go get those 5 challenges. “Hey here’s 7 more challenges, but you have to master super mario mushroom jumping first.” Okay there goes another giant time block. “Ahhhh learn to understand the mysterious language of C’thulu and gain access to 10 more hero challenges.” Get what I’m saying?

Good thing those masteries are account bound
And I seriously doubt you need to max glilding or stuff like that to get all that you need.
Either way, since you said no one nows how long it will take, can’t we all take a “wait and see” approach before blowing up the forum?

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Because I have a feeling at least half of the upset players would cool down if they just told us the layout, in numbers, to unlock traits, skills, sigils, fashion-wars items, etc. I will perform some math magic™.

I, honestly, have no problem (for my mains… alts I casually play are a diff story and will likely still remain unplayed because of these shenanigans) if the traits and skills are around 250-300 because I can see getting the GM traits in HoT as not as big a deal… except for like Daredevil or Reaper where the main idea behind the Elite spec is the GM.

However, if the GM traits end up being that 400 point item (falsely? assuming a linear path for all things elite and thus breaking the mold of skills and traits being separate) well, I hope my aforementioned box of kittens with Rabies run rampant in the home of the person that made this choice.

So… if we get someone (the mastermind behind this) to, perhaps, be kind enough to fill out this table… that would be brilliant.
(Also, we can see this as a better breakdown of where those 400 points go. We can also make assumptions based on previous traits on the order we have to get things—top down in lists == left → right on skill-bar.)

Elite-Spec Minor 1 = 60
Elite-Spec Adept 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Adept 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Adept 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Minor 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Minor 3 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 1 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 2 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 3 = ?

Elite-Spec Heal = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 4 = ? (Not on Revenant so… do they cost less? Nah, likely costlier for each level… more BS!)
Elite-Spec Elite = ?

Rune ~
Sigil ~
Armor Item ~

So 340 points distributed over… seventeen skill/trait things and three cosmetic.
If we made the (obviously false) assumption it was evenly distributed, that means about twenty each. Thus, if you only wanted the trait line (and assuming skills remains equally separate like today) that means you need only 280 total points there. Which is, well, reasonable, as we already have 200-215 on a fully HP-complete character.
Then there are another 120 points for skills. Arguably, you only want one or two of those… and you can make due with just a couple. If you look at previous streams, and the order we have seen in the current skill lines, you know how many points you need to unlock your skills of choice. Though… if you (only) want that elite… then you gotta get em all anyhow.

Now, of course, factor in that they may or may not weight the rune/sigil/armor the same as the skills and that points of the elite-spec trait and skill lines increase as they progress, you now get the feeling of how much for each set of stuff. Sure, we have to fully unlock all the other (the only real mistake in this system) traits first, but it does not mean you have to fully unlock the Elite Specs to get what you want out of it… new game-play.

Lastly, given the previous “standard” we have of roughly doubling amounts as we go along and I would give the following rough assumption of what everything costs:

A1 – 5
A2 – 5
A3 – 10
`2 – 10
M1 – 20
M2 – 20
M3 – 20
`3 – 30
G1 – 35
G2 – 35
G3 – 35

H 5
U 10
U 10
U 10
U 20
E 30

Rune 10
Sigil 10
Armor 10

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Yea, it says the same thing in different words. And expanded out. I’m supposed to just copy and paste my responses because heaven forbid I say more in a later post. Or just paraphrase and never add anything else to my posts? Really?

“As much of an issue” does not mean that people who have an issue suddenly don’t have an issue.

If on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no issue and 10 huge issue, “as much of an issue” could mean going from 10 on the scale down to 8. Where it’s still an important issue to you, just not as much of an issue.

So not seeing how my two posts say differing things. The second says the same as the first and goes into more details.

I’m assuming you won’t bother to look so I’ll quote it for you. Also, you should really pay more attention to our conversation. To think that I’m referencing any other post besides the ones I quoted, and that you replied to already, shows your lack of awareness to put mildly.

Swagger.1459:

Edit- your op didn’t copy over…

You…
“That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.”

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 states that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they would adjust their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes. Both 1 and 2 you mentioned more time for players to prepare so that’s the only consistent message between the two. You made zero reference to anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Yea, it says the same thing in different words. And expanded out. I’m supposed to just copy and paste my responses because heaven forbid I say more in a later post. Or just paraphrase and never add anything else to my posts? Really?

“As much of an issue” does not mean that people who have an issue suddenly don’t have an issue.

If on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no issue and 10 huge issue, “as much of an issue” could mean going from 10 on the scale down to 8. Where it’s still an important issue to you, just not as much of an issue.

So not seeing how my two posts say differing things. The second says the same as the first and goes into more details.

Lol

Pompeia.5483:

Because I have a feeling at least half of the upset players would cool down if they just told us the layout, in numbers, to unlock traits, skills, sigils, fashion-wars items, etc. I will perform some math magic™.

I, honestly, have no problem (for my mains… alts I casually play are a diff story and will likely still remain unplayed because of these shenanigans) if the traits and skill are around 250-300 because I can see getting the GM traits in HoT as not as big a deal… except for like Daredevil or Reaper where the main idea behind the Elite spec is the GM.

However, if the GM traits end up being that 400 point item (falsely? assuming a linear path for all things elite and thus breaking the mold of skills and traits being separate) well, I hope my aforementioned box of kittens with Rabies run rampant in the home of the person that made this choice.

So… if we get someone (the mastermind behind this) to, perhaps, be kind enough to fill out this table… that would be brilliant.
(Also, we can see this as a better breakdown of where those 400 points go. We can also make assumptions based on previous traits on the order we have to get things—top down in lists.)

Elite-Spec Minor 1 = 60
Elite-Spec Adept 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Adept 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Adept 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Minor 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Minor 3 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 1 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 2 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 3 = ?

Elite-Spec Heal = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 4 = ? (Not on Revenant so… do they cost less? Nah, likely cheaper for each level… more BS!)
Elite-Spec Elite = ?

Rune ~
Sigil ~
Armor Item ~

So 340 points distributed over… seventeen skill/trait things and three cosmetic.
If we made the (obviously false) assumption it was evenly distributed, that means about twenty each. Thus, if you only wanted the trait line (and assuming skills remains equally separate like today) that means you need only 280 total points there. Which is, well, reasonable, as we already have 200-215 on a fully HP-complete character.
Then there are another 120 points for skills. Arguably, you only want one or two of those… and you can make due with just a couple. If you look at previous streams, and the order we have seen in the current skill lines, you know how many points you need to unlock your skills of choice. Though… if you (only) want that elite… then you gotta get em all anyhow.

Now, of course, factor in that they may or may not weight the rune/sigil/armor the same as the skills and that points of the elite-spec trait and skill lines increase as they progress, you now get the feeling of how much for each set of stuff. Sure, we have to fully unlock all the other (the only real mistake in this system) traits first, but it does not mean you have to fully unlock the Elite Specs to get what you want out of it… new game-play.

Lastly, given the previous “standard” we have of roughly doubling amounts as we go along and I would give the following rough assumption of what everything costs:

A1 – 5
A2 – 5
A3 – 10
`2 – 10
M1 – 20
M2 – 20
M3 – 20
`3 – 30
G1 – 35
G2 – 35
G3 – 35

H 5
U 10
U 10
U 10
U 20
E 30

Rune 10
Sigil 10
Armor 10

I’m willing to guess the armour would take more then 10, seeing as they prefer to put cosmetics stuff behind bigger hurdles,
My guess is that they would take like 50-75… After you get everything else, and I thought weapon were part of that too, so that like another 50-75 hp there

Pompeia.5483:

Because I have a feeling at least half of the upset players would cool down if they just told us the layout, in numbers, to unlock traits, skills, sigils, fashion-wars items, etc. I will perform some math magic™.

I, honestly, have no problem (for my mains… alts I casually play are a diff story and will likely still remain unplayed because of these shenanigans) if the traits and skill are around 250-300 because I can see getting the GM traits in HoT as not as big a deal… except for like Daredevil or Reaper where the main idea behind the Elite spec is the GM.

However, if the GM traits end up being that 400 point item (falsely? assuming a linear path for all things elite and thus breaking the mold of skills and traits being separate) well, I hope my aforementioned box of kittens with Rabies run rampant in the home of the person that made this choice.

So… if we get someone (the mastermind behind this) to, perhaps, be kind enough to fill out this table… that would be brilliant.
(Also, we can see this as a better breakdown of where those 400 points go. We can also make assumptions based on previous traits on the order we have to get things—top down in lists.)

Elite-Spec Minor 1 = 60
Elite-Spec Adept 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Adept 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Adept 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Minor 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Minor 3 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 1 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 2 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 3 = ?

Elite-Spec Heal = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 4 = ? (Not on Revenant so… do they cost less? Nah, likely cheaper for each level… more BS!)
Elite-Spec Elite = ?

Rune ~
Sigil ~
Armor Item ~

So 340 points distributed over… seventeen skill/trait things and three cosmetic.
If we made the (obviously false) assumption it was evenly distributed, that means about twenty each. Thus, if you only wanted the trait line (and assuming skills remains equally separate like today) that means you need only 280 total points there. Which is, well, reasonable, as we already have 200-215 on a fully HP-complete character.
Then there are another 120 points for skills. Arguably, you only want one or two of those… and you can make due with just a couple. If you look at previous streams, and the order we have seen in the current skill lines, you know how many points you need to unlock your skills of choice. Though… if you (only) want that elite… then you gotta get em all anyhow.

Now, of course, factor in that they may or may not weight the rune/sigil/armor the same as the skills and that points of the elite-spec trait and skill lines increase as they progress, you now get the feeling of how much for each set of stuff. Sure, we have to fully unlock all the other (the only real mistake in this system) traits first, but it does not mean you have to fully unlock the Elite Specs to get what you want out of it… new game-play.

Lastly, given the previous “standard” we have of roughly doubling amounts as we go along and I would give the following rough assumption of what everything costs:

A1 – 5
A2 – 5
A3 – 10
`2 – 10
M1 – 20
M2 – 20
M3 – 20
`3 – 30
G1 – 35
G2 – 35
G3 – 35

H 5
U 10
U 10
U 10
U 20
E 30

Rune 10
Sigil 10
Armor 10

This is a brilliant post, it’s also what I have been saying, acknowledge us. Everytime Anet is confronted with something that ticks off the players they hide in kitten, its diminishing your rep, you are known as the company that will not acknowledge your customer base. That is not something to be proud of, its frustrating to see it tbh, be that company that works with your players, listen to us, ask us, you have a wealth of information at your finger tips that you seem to refuse to use.

Swagger.1459:

I’m assuming you won’t bother to look so I’ll quote it for you. Also, you should really pay more attention to our conversation. To think that I’m referencing any other post besides the ones I quoted, and that you replied to already, shows your lack of awareness to put mildly.

Swagger.1459:

Edit- your op didn’t copy over…

You…
“That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.”

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

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Swagger.1459:

FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 states that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they would adjust their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes. Both 1 and 2 you mentioned more time for players to prepare so that’s the only consistent message between the two. You made zero reference to anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

You only quoted (or at least the only quote that showed when I was responding, you edited after I saw the post and responded) the post where I went into detail. There are many different threads going on and I’ve been jumping into multiple ones so telling me a previous post differed from the one you just quoted wasn’t enough for me to know which post of mine you were referring to. Hence, why I asked you to quote the message. To avoid any confusion as to which message you meant. I didn’t want to pick post A if you meant post B, etc. If you had previously quoted that message, I’m sorry that I don’t have a photographic memory and can remember who quoted what and when and that I’m not a mind reader and therefore couldn’t know that you were referring to that missed post and not to a post I said to someone else. I’m sorry.

Swagger.1459:

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Yea, it says the same thing in different words. And expanded out. I’m supposed to just copy and paste my responses because heaven forbid I say more in a later post. Or just paraphrase and never add anything else to my posts? Really?

“As much of an issue” does not mean that people who have an issue suddenly don’t have an issue.

If on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no issue and 10 huge issue, “as much of an issue” could mean going from 10 on the scale down to 8. Where it’s still an important issue to you, just not as much of an issue.

So not seeing how my two posts say differing things. The second says the same as the first and goes into more details.

Lol

Guess you’re ceding this argument to me, if you can’t come up with anything more than a lol.

And unless you’re next response is a serious response, I’m done with you as you apparently don’t have anything more to say.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt on thinking the specs themselves are worth more than a simple cosmetic item. However, also adding a weapon to the equation would help balance the numbers more.

If it is weighted toward the amenities and not skills/traits, then it is likely no different to any other trait/skill line today baring that initial 60 unlock.

But, another fun guess… only further proving the point it is not as huge a headache:

………60
A…….6……………….H……4
A…….6……………….U……8
A…….6……………….U……10
………..8……………….U……10
M……8……………….U……12
M……8……………….E……14
M……8
……….10………………Rune……….30
G……14………………Sigil…………30
G……14………………Armor…….60
G……14………………Weapon…60

So does that mean we just got to wait and see in two days, I mean I’m all for speculation, but if what the point in turning that mole hill into a mountain if we are not even facing the right direction.

BobbyT.7192:

So does that mean we just got to wait and see in two days, I mean I’m all for speculation, but if what the point in turning that mole hill into a mountain if we are not even facing the right direction.

Yeah, that is what I am guessing… it got blown out of proportion from poor communication (which everyone is a victim of). I will not stress about it till the day comes. Of course I will be sad about my Revenant, but I can just play my Chillomancer until I unlock the mastery needed for enough HPC’s to get it. Besides, Herald was just a better form of Invocation anyhow (for condi)

Pompeia.5483:

BobbyT.7192:

So does that mean we just got to wait and see in two days, I mean I’m all for speculation, but if what the point in turning that mole hill into a mountain if we are not even facing the right direction.

Yeah, that is what I am guessing… it got blown out of proportion from poor communication (which everyone is a victim of). I will not stress about it till the day comes. Of course I will be sad about my Revenant, but I can just play my Chillomancer until I unlock the mastery needed for enough HPC’s to get it. Besides, Herald was just a better form of Invocation anyhow (for condi)

And since we are the the topic of cosmetic, cosmetics that go right into your wardrobe for all your alt friendly use. That would mean that would be free HP that your 300 alts don’t need to acquire or spend until the next elite spec comes out (Unless you don’t want to spend a transmuting charge), Another reason why I would think they would take up a large chuck of the cost

Pompeia.5483:

BobbyT.7192:

So does that mean we just got to wait and see in two days, I mean I’m all for speculation, but if what the point in turning that mole hill into a mountain if we are not even facing the right direction.

Yeah, that is what I am guessing… it got blown out of proportion from poor communication (which everyone is a victim of). I will not stress about it till the day comes. Of course I will be sad about my Revenant, but I can just play my Chillomancer until I unlock the mastery needed for enough HPC’s to get it. Besides, Herald was just a better form of Invocation anyhow (for condi)

Shocking, well no really. This could have all been toned down by a simple response, this is going to be the death of anet (not this moment but the constant ignorance of customer relation). More bad publicity /golf clap to anet, ignorance is bliss.

Captain Evon Gnashblade : We come up with an item for 4000 Gems to unlock everything on your characters. Buy the Scarlet Briar Unlocker now!

Random.4691:

Pompeia.5483:

BobbyT.7192:

So does that mean we just got to wait and see in two days, I mean I’m all for speculation, but if what the point in turning that mole hill into a mountain if we are not even facing the right direction.

Yeah, that is what I am guessing… it got blown out of proportion from poor communication (which everyone is a victim of). I will not stress about it till the day comes. Of course I will be sad about my Revenant, but I can just play my Chillomancer until I unlock the mastery needed for enough HPC’s to get it. Besides, Herald was just a better form of Invocation anyhow (for condi)

Shocking, well no really. This could have all been toned down by a simple response, this is going to be the death of anet (not this moment but the constant ignorance of customer relation). More bad publicity /golf clap to anet, ignorance is bliss.

Well yeah, should expect that by now though, hasn’t change in the last 7 years, I can safely say that

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Yea, it says the same thing in different words. And expanded out. I’m supposed to just copy and paste my responses because heaven forbid I say more in a later post. Or just paraphrase and never add anything else to my posts? Really?

“As much of an issue” does not mean that people who have an issue suddenly don’t have an issue.

If on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no issue and 10 huge issue, “as much of an issue” could mean going from 10 on the scale down to 8. Where it’s still an important issue to you, just not as much of an issue.

So not seeing how my two posts say differing things. The second says the same as the first and goes into more details.

Lol

Guess you’re ceding this argument to me, if you can’t come up with anything more than a lol.

And unless you’re next response is a serious response, I’m done with you as you apparently don’t have anything more to say.

Lol was because you don’t pay attention to what you write and would rather blame me for your lack of comprehension. Perhaps you should go back and reread things, then reflect on the way you communicate so you can learn to be clear the first time with your “intended messages”.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Random.4691:

Why do people keep using GW1 or other games as examples ? This is clearly not GW1 or we would have split classing and not be able to jump, it’s also not Metroid because this isn’t 1930.

People use GW1 because it’s also made by ArenaNet.

My post was using the other games to prove that every single game in existence has the very system that people are complaining about right now. Needing to play content in order to progress your playing capabilities.

And just so it’s clear:

Locking elite specs behind doing HoT content is not the problem. This should be done.

It’s how they locked elite specs behind doing HoT content that’s the problem.

No, that’s an opinion so it doesn’t mean it should be. There is plenty of progression and a spec is not one of them. Its like saying you need to complete all of the Jungle before you can roll Revenant. There is no difference, you can make every argument in the book, in the end they are cutting us from the one part that doesn’t affect the game play if its free, small grind or large grind. Here’s the thing, people are making all these excuses why it shouldn’t be insta unlock, those same people have the option to create their own unlock time frame, most of which will unlock instantly If available. If they want to wait for content then wait, you don’t need anyone to hold your hand and tell you no.

Swagger.1459:

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Yea, it says the same thing in different words. And expanded out. I’m supposed to just copy and paste my responses because heaven forbid I say more in a later post. Or just paraphrase and never add anything else to my posts? Really?

“As much of an issue” does not mean that people who have an issue suddenly don’t have an issue.

If on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no issue and 10 huge issue, “as much of an issue” could mean going from 10 on the scale down to 8. Where it’s still an important issue to you, just not as much of an issue.

So not seeing how my two posts say differing things. The second says the same as the first and goes into more details.

Lol

Guess you’re ceding this argument to me, if you can’t come up with anything more than a lol.

And unless you’re next response is a serious response, I’m done with you as you apparently don’t have anything more to say.

Lol was because you don’t pay attention to what you write and would rather blame me for your lack of comprehension. Perhaps you should go back and reread things, then reflect on the way you communicate so you can learn to be clear the first time with your “intended messages”.

I pay attention to what I write, thank you very much. I’m not seeing where my messages are different. I’m really not. So maybe you can enlighten me. Instead of just saying they are different. Because that’s how good communication goes. When one person gets a different interpretation each should say how they view it so that both can see where the wires got crossed. You just saying you’re reading it differently makes me think you’ve since changed your mind but are too proud to say otherwise. While that may not be true, it is one interpretation. And the one I shall take until such time as you explain to me in detail (and not just quoting my messages and/or saying they are different) how they are different.

It works just like any other training line – except all the skills, traits, skins, abilities, etc. are all inside one full training line that costs 400 points to get everything in the entire line. It costs 60 points to unlock and be able to play as the elite specialization itself.

The way I see it,to play as the Specialization itself you only need 60 points.

The rest is used to unlock the armor skin,weapon skin and the runes.

If you want to play as a Dragonhunter for example,all you need is 60 points and you will already be able to wield a Longbow and your profession icon will change to the Dragonhunter one.

It really seems as though (taking timing into consideration) they realized Raids were a no go at release so take those specs that will drastically affect raids (Druid, Herald, heck all of them) and increase the grind giving them more time to make up for the incompetence of not leaving enough test time (raids on the last beta weekend … a major selling point should have been tested long before). Its my opinion that they are punishing us for their incompetence because they are not ready and trying to buy time.

They deserve a big middle finger at this point. we are being punished for their incompetence.

1.) It just doesn’t make sense to punish the more casual players this way
No one expected the Elite Specializations to be our reward for finishing Heart of Thorns, we expected to be able to play Heart of Thorns with them… for players who don’t have the 200+ points banked from core game map completion, they will have to wait until they are about 70% into the game to have enough unlocked to make a viable build(70% into Heart of Thorns, 3 maps with 400 hero points. about 133 hero points per map, map unlock likely dependent on mastery unlock so expect layered grind). For those of us in this situation the Elite Specs are going to be a reward for finishing the game and not something available to us to play the majority of the game with. If you can not see why this has many people upset then you are being very narrow minded.

2. As planned the system will encourage the player base to grind for hero points ignoring story missions, events, adventures, etc…
You’ll have a large part of the community that will do nothing but grind for their Elite Specs (which will also mean grinding for Mastery’s). That’s what this system will reduce the game to, a glorious hero challenge hunt. Some will return to story after unlock but by that point most will finish capping hero points then immediately transition to helping with the guild hall. The story missions that deliver the narrative of GW2 will be ignored probably even more so than the personal story chapters have been. It makes players only care about the grind.

2.) They know!
So here’s the disturbing part for me. The developers behind GW2 do a lot of analytic research on their player base (some of those tools they have showcased). They know the game will be reduced to a grind fest. They understand exactly what they are doing. Likely, they have figured out this is why every other trash MMO on the market operates the way it does. It funnels players to the in game cash shop. It was recently announced Eric Flannum (one of the most brilliant minds behind GW2’s amazing play mechanics) made a decision to leave to work elsewhere. This all makes me wonder if he left because he had a problem with the integrity of what they were about to do. Keep in mind when you go with a F2P model putting the focus on grind when cash shop items help with the grind is a proven model for keeping revenue high. It’s the dirty side to what the free to download and free to play model is bringing to the game.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Taerdan.6712:

Let me get this straight, in the current game there are an average of less than 40 challenges per Zone: Maguuma Jungle, Ascalon, Kryta, Shiverpeak Mountains, and Orr. This is proven because there are 5 Zones and 189 Hero Challenges counted toward Map Completion. Assuming that there are at least 40 Hero Challenges in Heart of Thorns means that the Challenge density will be about the same (or greater) as the current game.

You’d require most of this “more than enough” number to get the spec with all its traits and skills, also known as the reason you’re getting it. That isn’t so bad, right? Complete effectively three maps to get an elite specialization?

Even then, I can beeline the 20-40 challenges and get the spec to complete the majority of the game expansion, right? I suppose, but even then, you’re going through most of the maps trying to get around half the available challenges. Why most of the maps? Well, Masteries, of course! Many of the new Hero Challenges will require the new Mastery system’s abilities, like gliding, to be able to access, not to mention that some require more advancement into a Mastery to be able to acces. So, to get my 20 challenges to finally get my spec, I will need to go through most of the content or get most of the Masteries before I can complete the spec with usable Grandmaster traits. (Because I’m totally for having partial specs slotted. They are so useful to have not even half the traits and abilities.) At that point, for many people, most of the point of having the spec – to be able to use it in the new content – is completely wasted by requiring me to go through and discover most/all waypoints so I can beam back if I fall or otherwise die trying to get to the Challenges.

Keep in mind, I don’t have more than one of each class, and my expectation is still to take weeks into months to get these Specializations.

Here the TL;DR heart of the matter
No one expected the Elite Specializations to be our reward for finishing Heart of Thorns, we expected to be able to play Heart of Thorns with them

The people not complaining are the ones who have map completion on the characters they want the specs unlocked on. For them things are a bit easier. Here are the numbers (again)

398 hero points from level up awards.

398 is exactly the number of hero points required to unlock each core specialization trait line and max it (60 each, 5 for each class) and all of your utility and elite skills combined are 98. So you’re left with nothing if you have everything unlocked and you’ve done no hero challenges. For these characters you’re coming into HoT with zero hero points. Your first six hero challenges on the first HoT map will take some time to work though, once you’ve completed those six challenges you will have 60 hero points which unlocks the Elite Specialization but gives you 0 trait unlocks (keep in mind on the core specializations 60 hero points is all that’s required to go from 0 to max on the trait line… For our Elite spec those 60 hero points just unlock it. You have to spend about ~200 points to take the trait line from 0 to max. So for those players you will probably be all the way though the second map in HoT (there are only three) and have grinded your way though Mastery’s, etc… only to finally be able to play with your Elite spec unlocked and trait tree maxed for the last 30% of HoT.

For those who have done world completion and not spend hero points on crafting (shards work as substitute now but they never gave us back those hero points we spent). If you’ve spent none of the hero challenge points you’ll go into HoT with 213 all world maps) meaning you will have enough to unlock the elite trait line right away and probably max out the trait line before you make it off the first map.

The ones who have the world competition/hero challenge 200+ hero points banked up don’t understand what the big deal is. They have despised you all along for not understanding the value of map competition. “You MUST have it for your Legendary anyway and we no every player is working towards a legendary skin” Not but that is the perspective those us don’t understand casual MMO playing take. They spend 20,40,60 hours in game every week. When things went stale and you moved on to another game you left them all alone in GW2 and out of sheer boredom they’ve done map competition on all their alts because they were loyal to the game and you weren’t they deserve this and you deserve to be kittened on.

Here are some quotes from ArenaNet developers prior to the 2012 launch
“… We do not believe in grind. Nobody likes that”
“… We want our game to be accessible to those who have full lives. We don’t want players to feel left behind just because they want to spend time with their family. We have families too”
“… We don’t want to make it so you feel bound to our game. We play other games to. The great thing about GW2 is you can leave and come back and you don’t have a subscription to pay for while you’re gone”

Heart of Thorns “must unlock eltie specs” goes against everything they the spirit and philosophy of the visionaries behind the core game.

All anyone will care about is focusing on unlocking their elite specs. Parties will be in the jungle hunting for hero challenges. All the effort on story missions, adventures, etc.. will be ignored until that goal is obtained for players mains and alts and yes that will take weeks, months for many. So on those grounds HoT is all about the grind. We want to experience the story with the Elite Specs and if ANet isn’t going to allow players to do that they will go get the Elite Specs first.

It’s ridiculous for a game design team to view core functional play mechanics that define the game user experience as something that must be earned. If you say Elite Specs are not core functional play mechanics of HoT we are going to disagree. Now many will have to wait months to get to unlock them.

I spent skill points on things before the change and I didn’t have any missing hero points or spirit shards when the conversion happened.

They basically wiped the skill points out completely.

They gave hero points at different level ups until 80. This gives 398 hero points exactly.

They then took the total experience each character had and calculated how many times a character leveled past 80 if the character was level 80 already. These got converted to spirit shards.

Added to the spirit shard count were any skill point consumable items that you had in inventories or in your bank.

No one lost hero points by spending the skill points instead of unlocking skills before the change.

I’m pretty upset about the 400 number too. They sprang it on us last second. The game comes out tomorrow and we just recently learned that despite all our preparations, we’re only half way to an elite spec? That’s frustrating. I have like 14 characters. I don’t want to grind 400 skill points on everyone so that I can unlock a single trait line. It’s actually prohibitive. I mean, I like the warrior’s berserker spec, but do I like it 400 hero points worth? lolno