Guild Wars 2

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

If ANet takes more than 1 week to fix the Hero points requirements a lot of players will give up on GW2.

As ANet knows better than us, once you lose the big hype train there is nothing to do…remember FF XIV.

It is a pitty that the HoT expansion can be ruined by just 1 aspect of the game, 1 wrong decision made by the wrong person at the wrong time.

1 week, please make it happen ANet!

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

So your solution to the community’s outcry is to tell us to hold tight? I have alts that I want to have an elite spec on, but that won’t happen. I was going to buy another character slot so I could make a necromancer of a different race. I was going to do all of these things which are now infinitely more difficult because of the difficulty of hero points.

Initially, I wanted to go through the new content with each profession I had in order to get all of the specializations unlocked. Now, I will not be doing so. My interest plummeted as soon as I discovered that the mesmer I unlocked chronomancer on would be the only mesmer on which I can use that specialization. That means the number of times I would need to unlock each specialization at least doubled. That’s ridiculous. It makes me want to play less. It makes me want to spend less on your game. It makes me want to rescind any recommendation I made of your game to any of my friends.

I have a few friends who previously quit the game that returned on the day of the expansion to ask me to test things out for a week. I agreed. This is not boding well for their purchasing of the expansion.

I’m sure this game is rated T for teen?

Yep, there it is at the bottom of the page.

Yet here we are, page 55 in the megathread of whiny children that spent 9 months complaining about wanting to play HoT and are now complaining about having to play HoT…
Modern gamers, I’ll never understand your sense of entitlement.

RedBaron.6058:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

If ANet takes more than 1 week to fix the Hero points requirements a lot of players will give up on GW2.

As ANet knows better than us, once you lose the big hype train there is nothing to do…remember FF XIV.

It is a pitty that the HoT expansion can be ruined by just 1 aspect of the game, 1 wrong decision made by the wrong person at the wrong time.

1 week, please make it happen ANet!

I’d rather them take a month to get the right solution than to have 4 weeks worth of solutions until they get to the right solution. Or a buggy solution because they rushed it that stops everyone’s progression instead of it just being a slow progression.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think the system needs changing. But I’d rather the best fix than any fix. They do need to keep us posted and release more information than usual if the fix isn’t a quick one.

Ezrael.6859:

I’m sure this game is rated T for teen?

Yep, there it is at the bottom of the page.

Yet here we are, page 55 in the megathread of whiny children that spent 9 months complaining about wanting to play HoT and are now complaining about having to play HoT…
Modern gamers, I’ll never understand your sense of entitlement.

Another wonderful post from someone who did not read any of the issues presented or suggestions in the thread.

Ezrael.6859:

I’m sure this game is rated T for teen?

Yep, there it is at the bottom of the page.

Yet here we are, page 55 in the megathread of whiny children that spent 9 months complaining about wanting to play HoT and are now complaining about having to play HoT…
Modern gamers, I’ll never understand your sense of entitlement.

And you didn’t really read the posts. You just skimmed.

Players want to play the new content (excluding elite specs if you consider them content) with fully unlocked elite specs. Not wind up with a fully unlocked elite spec when they’re most of the way through playing the rest of the new content.

They’re upset that ANet’s decided the order in which they experience the new content.

So after finally putting some time into HoT and the jungle I’m gonna do a complete 180 turn here and say I’m actually enjoying it. Once you get the glider, and mushroom jumping and finally unlock the first part of your elite spec and get the weapon it actually becomes quite fun. Having a blast on my thief now using the new staff. And the weapon skin for the thief staff is perfect. Thank you anet. ^^

Currently half way through the mastery to use the gliding updraft. Then this jungle seems like its gonna open up way more.

My suggestion, give it a real honest to good chance. I finally did, now im having a blast.

Another thing to consider: The contents of the 3 available expansion packs of HoT.

I think that adding 4000 gems to the most expensive pack is a bit careless. Why buying the 99.99 pack just to have 4000 gems? We can buy gems anytime…

The launch of HoT should have unique items that appeal to all players besides the miniatures, guild decorations, glider skin and finisher (personally I never cared for any of these items in-game).

Why not offer a unique outfit and a unique weapon skin to celebrate the launch of HoT?

All GW2 players love awesome outfits and weapon skins (we spend millions buying them from the BLTC) but not that many are into miniatures and guild halls decorations or finishers…

I’m fine with Anet waiting before jumping to make a decision. At least they are aware people are seeing this.

That said, I’m in the group that thinks the Elite Specs and Hero Point system didn’t work. You can list a bunch of reasons why: the Unlocking method of Elite Specs was never Beta tested, Elite Specs are already unlocked in PvP but nowhere else, the current method of unlocking Elite specs is tedious and cumbersome for ONE character, let alone a group… etc. But the truth is that it didn’t work.

Mastery progression was done WONDERFULLY. Progress in PvP was done right. The HoT story was done mostly well (and what wasn’t is being fixed by Anet). Raids and making content harder was done right. All of those are great examples of horizontal progression.

But the unlocking of Hero Points and Elite specs are not. When you’re ignoring most of the story and exploration to unlock your spec SO that you can enjoy the story and exploration… I think the plan has failed. I like gliding. I love bouncing off mushrooms. Alas, I can’t enjoy any of that because I have to hunt down every Hero Point I find. And while some people are fine with the way things are… I don’t think that’s how Anet wanted us to play.

Oh and let’s not forget that some Hero Points are gated. :p Hero points were never a group thing before. They were a reward for exploration. That’s not the case now. Unless you can solo a Champion or have all of your mastery points first.

The only thing worse then the current situation with the Elite specs is the folks who don’t exactly agree that the current system is flawed and just belittle the entire conversation without seeing the other side of the argument. It’s holding back any constructive feedback that can be given.

No one wants all the content given to them to start. No one is asking for full Mastery to start. No one is asking for High PvP or WvW ranks. No one has a problem with the way Strongholds are working or that you have to work towards Raids or Guild Halls.

But the Elite Spec issue is the only one that stands out as a mistake. And if you want to know why I think this happened? It’s because this was one of the few features not tested by the community. It probably seemed good on paper and internal testing. But not everyone plays the game the same.

I don’t blame Anet for this. It’s just one of those things they probably just didn’t see coming. Alas, it is now here. And I hope we get a fix once they realize this isn’t a Weekend Launch issue or Fist Week Launch issue and just an unfortunate (and understandable) miscalculation on their end.

maybe in WVW they should just get rid of needing any hero points and let players start with a maxed out character (similar to regular PVP)

I am not a WVW player though and Im absolutely fine with needing some time to fully unlock the elite.

Harlekin.2981:

maybe in WVW they should just get rid of needing any hero points and let players start with a maxed out character (similar to regular PVP)

I am not a WVW player though and Im absolutely fine with needing some time to fully unlock the elite.

This would be lovely. Please this.

Seera.5916:

RedBaron.6058:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

If ANet takes more than 1 week to fix the Hero points requirements a lot of players will give up on GW2.

As ANet knows better than us, once you lose the big hype train there is nothing to do…remember FF XIV.

It is a pitty that the HoT expansion can be ruined by just 1 aspect of the game, 1 wrong decision made by the wrong person at the wrong time.

1 week, please make it happen ANet!

I’d rather them take a month to get the right solution than to have 4 weeks worth of solutions until they get to the right solution. Or a buggy solution because they rushed it that stops everyone’s progression instead of it just being a slow progression.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think the system needs changing. But I’d rather the best fix than any fix. They do need to keep us posted and release more information than usual if the fix isn’t a quick one.

4 weeks is an eternity for a newly released MMO expansion.

The amount of negative feedback produced during 4 weeks all around the Web will completely undermine ANet future efforts to save HoT.

If I was ANet I would immediately greatly reduce the hero points requirements and then work with a bit more time in other less positive aspects of the game.

I go into a restaurant to have a meal. Before I can get throught the door, the hostess asks me to prepurchase my meal. I’ve eaten here before and thought their stuff was amazing so I go ahead and give them some money. After I sit down at a table, a waitress comes over with a dirty plate and utensils. She says, " The plate and utensils are the ones you used the last time you were here. We recently have changed to new plates and utensils but if you want to use those to enjoy the contents of your meal you will have to sweep and mop the kitchen and wash the plate and utensils you previously used." I told the waitress that this was unreasonable and that I wanted to enjoy the contents of my meal on the new plate and utensils. She shakes her head and says, “I will never understand the sense of entitlement some of these customers have.”

Reducing the hero points required for the spec would leave everybody with loads of useless hero points in the end. But then, if a new elite spec is released before a sizable map expansion is, they will be absolutely nessecary. I think gated content is fine, as long as it is not required for this elite spec, but rather to prepare for the upcoming ones.

Why the hell didn’t they give us an opportunity to convert spirit shards into hero points? It would make good sence. The ratio could be ridiculous, like 1:20, but there would be a way. Now we are stuck with spending hours trying to get people to do champion challenges or spend tens of hours trying to farm masteries. What a lovely options…

bLind.6278:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

So, how long should we expect to wait before you guys create something more reasonable? Three months? Six? Fallout 3 is releasing next month, and I’m sure the November releases can keep me occupied until you guys figure out how to not lie to us.

Read between the lines. It’s over yo. They don’t consider it any more of a concern than any other complaint, and they’re tired of us talking about it here( positive feedback by those “who are busy playing the game” ). So be it grinders you win. Have fun.

The WvW “proof of heroic something” or whatever it’s called, should be account bound not soundbound.

Dashingsteel.3410:

I go into a restaurant to have a meal. Before I can get throught the door, the hostess asks me to prepurchase my meal. I’ve eaten here before and thought their stuff was amazing so I go ahead and give them some money. After I sit down at a table, a waitress comes over with a dirty plate and utensils. She says, " The plate and utensils are the ones you used the last time you were here. We recently have changed to new plates and utensils but if you want to use those to enjoy the contents of your meal you will have to sweep and mop the kitchen and wash the plate and utensils you previously used." I told the waitress that this was unreasonable and that I wanted to enjoy the contents of my meal on the new plate and utensils. She shakes her head and says, “I will never understand the sense of entitlement some of these customers have.”

This analogy is great, I have been playing the specs in PVP because I got frustrated grinding, and absolutely loving some of the new playstyle options. If only I could have those in the other game modes I play…

It’s sad to see so many posts accusing devs for stuff that aint true when they openly writes in this post.

First alot are complaining about HP and Elite Specialization and now Devs go out saying we will se if there something we can do to make HoT enjoyable for you too. I know there is a lot of information to look at and alot of work that will need to be done if they decides to change something. It is not an easy part. I bet dome Dev’s are realy sorry that so many people hate what they themself though was a good idea. Now they are going to have a look at this problem to make the players happy and some players are still bashing on the devs and mocks them. It is really sad to see.

I am not a fan of the ammount of HP needed even though we get 10 HP for some Challanges but the rest of the game is fantasic and I play a 67.5% Leveled scrapper and the experience is wonderfull.

my gripes wit this game right now
1. cool content, massive XP grind for anything from masteries to skillpoints. i shouldnt have to run around doing event trains for 3 hours to gain half of the lvling bar on a near dead map.
2. rewards are lackluster and imo worse than the core game (legendary wyverns?)
3. needs more people in maps. some of the maps at certain times are near dead.

i play across 4 different characters equally and think the 400 hero points required to unlock per toon is ridiculous. it seems like a chore and a job rather than fun repeating map completion over and over again.

No one complained when they were unlocking their character from lvl 1-80. Why should elite specs be different?

I have yet to see a single logical reason why things should be changed. All i am seeing is a mob of angry spoiled children with a mob like mentality because everything isn’t handed to them for free within the first few days of launch… over a weekend… that the devs are working overtime to keep the servers stable, how selfish and impatience can you people be?

Go play the game, even the most casual of all casual players can easily unlock the full elite spec in as little as week, i’m a casual player and i have already unlocked everything, it is super mega easy, almost too easy!

I was extremely unhappy with the way that the content has been gated behind “grind,” until someone reminded me of one thing: masteries are account wide. It’s the masteries that are very long term goals and which require a lot of play-time to get into, and the thought of having to do each on every character was extremely off-putting.

The reality, though, is that I don’t. Using only the jungle maps, I’ve gotten about 2/3 of the way through my first elite specialization on a character that had very little world completion outside of the new maps – and that in two days. TWO. DAYS. Other characters which I may play later will get through it even more quickly, as they will already have more hero points from the core maps and will have access to most of the hero points in the new maps immediately, already having the masteries.

In other MMOs, expansions add a higher level cap and additional skills to existing classes, which requires playing through the new maps and gaining experience to unlock the new skills and traits. Often, they add new classes altogether, which require leveling through the entire game in order to earn through experience points.

This expansion has added elite specializations, which are in truth somewhere between a “higher level cap” and a new class altogether. Either way that you look at it, the idea that players should have to earn their new skills and traits through playing isnot unreasonable, and is lot easier and far less grindy than the way it works in these other games.

The thing is, these other games also have progression at max level in the form of gear “treadmills” – something which the playerbase of this game is beyond adamantly opposed to. This game does not have such treadmills, but – and this is key – IT. MUST. HAVE. SOME. KIND. OF. PROGRESSION. It must have something to shoot for, something to keep people playing. Things like Legendaries and cosmetics are well and good, but they only go so far and do not appeal to everyone or, I would argue, even most. Yes, Elite Specializations have been introduced as something of a goal to shoot for in this expansion, and rightly so.

Where other games fulfill the need for a type of progression to keep people playing with gear treadmills, this expansion, not wanting to introduce a gear treadmill, has introduced some small, faint, shadow of a “leveling” experience to gaining their new elite specializations, an experience that absolutely pales in comparison to what players of other MMOs which are adding expansions are required to go through.

Frankly, I can’t rationally look at the complaints about elite specializations as anything other than entitled whining, and I am not quick to use the term. I can absolutely cut slack to those who haven’t recognized the impact of masteries being account wide. However, the truth is that the kinds of changes people are asking for about elite specialization unlocking come from a place of wanting everything for free, up front.

Such complaints are also not coming from a place that is really good for the game. I remember in the first year of GW2, before the game – while never coming close to matching the traditional model of other MMOs – finally did start to come back at least in small ways towards some of the qualities of traditional MMOs. Those were the days when I logged in each day, stared at the screen for 20 minutes admiring the gorgeous world and wishing that I could once more experience that world, before ultimately realizing that there was literally nothing to actually do in the game and logging out to play other MMOs which had more goals to shoot for to keep me playing. I don’t want those days back. I am thrilled and happy with the current model, which causes me to log in with some goal in mind to work towards, even if that work is still nothing compared to what other games demand.

My advice: don’t change a thing. The system as is, is good for the game. More than that – it’s vital for the game. Try to reach out to players that don’t understand this and help to explain.

Arnath.2319:

No one complained when they were unlocking their character from lvl 1-80. Why should elite specs be different?

I have yet to see a single logical reason why things should be changed. All i am seeing is a mob of anger spoiled children with a mob like mentality because everything isn’t handed to them for free within the first few days of launch… over a weekend… that the devs are working overtime to keep the servers stable.

Go play the game, even the most casual of all casual players can easily unlock the full lite spec in as little as week, i’m a casual player and i have already unlocked everything, it is super mega easy, almost too easy!

You must not have read any of the posts about the issue or suggestions to fix it in this thread, like almost everyone else that thinks like you. I don’t feel like explaining them a thousandth time, but there are many reasons people are unhappy.

Elite specs are not like a new class…. The revenant is a new class.. Elite specs are 1 trait line, a few utilities and 1 weapon….. Hardly a new class…. and hardly deserving of 400 freaking hero points….. should be just another trait line you purchase costing the same as other trait lines…… “elite” is not a good description for these specializations.

I personally think that you shouldn’t have tied down TRAITS and SKILLS in one single line. I think the point requirement is fine, but it feels so deep getting these traits and skills because they’re in one single route. The old system did this, and it’s perfectly fine!

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback…..

Thanks again!

you know it sounds nice to say these things but are they even true? has anet listened to our passionate feedback and made better games? one could argue that hot is actually inferior to core gw2… are they making good decisions based on our feedback?

im really not trying to be rude here-just honest questions. because after a year and a half of our feedback, while you developed hot, you seem to have concluded that jumping puzzles, tough trash mobs (dropping blues and greens) and gated specializations are what the players want. was this listening to us? were these good decisions?

Arnath.2319:

All i am seeing is a mob of anger spoiled children with a mob like mentality because everything isn’t handed to them for free within the first few days of launch… over a weekend… that the devs are working overtime to keep the servers stable.

That’s all you see because that’s all you want to see.

This thread does contain a lot of venting — including your own — but it is also filled with constructive criticism. Should you choose to read the thread, then you will see why posts like yours are, ironically enough, precisely the sort of thing you’re complaining about.

Most of posts in this thread are very specific about the problem with the current state of Elite Specializations and Hero Points, and many offer suggestions about how to improve them.

If you think these game elements are fine the way they are, great! But if you resent other players giving their honest feedback in a feedback thread, then attacking them for doing so puts you in direct opposition to the point of the thread and, to the extent it includes insults, the Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct as well.

hurrado.2346:

Dashingsteel.3410:

I go into a restaurant to have a meal. Before I can get throught the door, the hostess asks me to prepurchase my meal. I’ve eaten here before and thought their stuff was amazing so I go ahead and give them some money. After I sit down at a table, a waitress comes over with a dirty plate and utensils. She says, " The plate and utensils are the ones you used the last time you were here. We recently have changed to new plates and utensils but if you want to use those to enjoy the contents of your meal you will have to sweep and mop the kitchen and wash the plate and utensils you previously used." I told the waitress that this was unreasonable and that I wanted to enjoy the contents of my meal on the new plate and utensils. She shakes her head and says, “I will never understand the sense of entitlement some of these customers have.”

This analogy is great, I have been playing the specs in PVP because I got frustrated grinding, and absolutely loving some of the new playstyle options. If only I could have those in the other game modes I play…

I dont’t think so, it’s so full of straw you could feed all the Centaurs in Tyria for weeks. This system is the exact same as its always been, GW2 has no raised level cap, but it essentially acts exactly as if they did raise the cap. This is an objective fact, whats not fact though id how people perceive this content and how it should be given to players. People on both sides of this argument really just need to chill out, and wait a little while longer.
It’s been three days, and people can argue all they want, but until a comperable solution is found there will not be any fixes. Hell, most arguments are just conjecture as theres almost zero metrics to analyze leveling rates and gains from masteries on subsequent characters.
Theres valid input on both sides, but we seriously have to be patient.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

Thanks Colin for the shout out. I ultimately want to say that you made a 11/10 expansion in term of content and system. I DO like it will take sometime of exploring and PLAYING (you know, we are in a freaking videogame) in order to progress the story, masteries, elite specs.
I’ve got back the sensation of first days in a new MMO and I’m so grateful for this.
If you want to lower a bit something just tune the Hero Points for elite specs…other things, imho, are perfect as you out them out.

Keep up the amazing work guys!
Cheers

Clairenix.2780:

I personally think that you shouldn’t have tied down TRAITS and SKILLS in one single line. I think the point requirement is fine, but it feels so deep getting these traits and skills because they’re in one single route. The old system did this, and it’s perfectly fine!

This I do agree with!

I was suprised to see that they went from an awesome system where I could choose what to aim for (Skills or traits) and now they slapped them all togheter. Before release I defended this becouse I beleaved that there would be like 150HP for skills, 150 HP for Traits and 100HP for unlocking weapon and armor skins (I like the Achievement part too though). I was a little bummed out to notice that this wasn’t the case but I can live with it. But as I said before I do hope for a little “fix” to this problem.

I don’t mind the unlocking of elite specialisations too much and see it no different to leveling a new class where you get your skills as you level. We are already 80 which means we still have utilities we can use until we get the rest. I can see this becoming a pain if I had loads of alts.

However, I did make sure that both the characters I intended to play (Chrono and Druid) had the Tyria hero points already before the expansion – for Ranger I ran around and farmed all HC challenges in Central Tyria before HoT, as I don’t have world completion on that character. I’ve unlocked Chrono and only have 6 more left to do on Druid. Because I already have masteries and already know how to get to the HC I need it is a bit easier on Druid – I also knew I had to get guildies to help with champs. We are a small guild so really asking others to take time out of their progression is not ideal and wish there were more people around doing them.

What I don’t like is that so many are Champions. There was nothing worse than finally figuring out how to get up to a HC only to die on activation as I was solo. I think it would be good if those were made veterans. For some reasons the maps feel empty and other than first day there aren’t many around now to do HC. I think they need to increase the numbers on maps to accommodate for the size and how spread out the base is.

Perhaps if they dropped a Hero Challenge Tome type thing in PvE too to be earned over time for alts.

TL:DR

I don’t mind earning the elite specialisation, but think if you have a lot of alts it will be a pain.

My suggestions

1. Make champs HC veterans
2. Increase map population
3. Create Hero Challenge Tomes that drop in PvE and earned over time to make it easier for alts.

User Tulki on Reddit has an incredible write up on this whole HoT debacle:

“I’m actually starting to agree with peoples’ sentiments. I love the new stuff that was added to the game. Elite specs are really cool, the jungle zones are ridiculously huge and fun to glide through, the music is fantastic, and the story is actually surprisingly well-paced and isn’t afraid to pull out dire character consequences. Many of the story steps are the kind of things that would make this subreddit explode if they were released as part of the living world chapters, it’s just that they’re not as talked about now because it was chunked out in bulk so there’s more to talk about.
HOWEVER. Everything is gated. Hard. ArenaNet is falling back on their pre-expansion ways of making everything a confusing chore, which is something I was hoping they would NOT do seeing as the expansion is already PAID.

I can’t play my elite spec properly until I’ve already completed 50-100% of the jungle including all masteries that gate those hero challenges, and some of them absolutely require groups. To make matters worse, some elite specs require pretty radical stat shifts from the previous meta, which are made more expensive by how ascended gear was changed to require more materials. Time-gated materials. I don’t think I’m ever going to use Scrapper in any serious capacity because I simply don’t have time to invest in the gear.

I have to grind mindlessly for masteries. In the case of language masteries I’m grinding to have the opportunity to grind to purchase items, as if this is supposed to make me feel accomplished.

Why are the new stat recipes not discovered in crafting? Why do they require random drops? Again, this was a paid expansion. I don’t understand why the new mechanics are gated to extremes I’d expect from a free game. I honestly expected things to work in a smooth, easy-to-understand way as everything in the base game did.
Why are there so many keys / baubles / crafting materials that don’t go into the wallet or material bank?

The masteries for precursor crafting require grinding for experience to gain the ability to dump ludicrous amounts of gold into an item. Turns out the epic journey to craft a coveted precursor is going somewhere and pressing ‘F’ and then running the Silverwastes and selling materials until you can craft it.

Why the hell do I have to pay 15g to unlock the PvP reward track for a mist champion which I then have to earn my way through to actually get the mist champion? Why are ALL of the new sigils, runes and amulets locked behind gold paywalls in PvP? There is no longer a level playing field, and I cannot consider PvP to be competitive any more. Seriously. Check out the prices yourself. If you want all options in PvP it costs an absolute kitten-ton.

Unfortunately, the systems in this expansion are tedious enough to make me feel like this is a free-to-play expansion, even though that’s not the case.
And, here is my biggest concern.
This type of expansion model will kill the game.

Suppose GW2’s second expansion comes out. It adds a new region, and a new elite spec to each profession. It adds a whole bunch of masteries. The masteries require kitten tons of experience, and the new elite spec requires a kitten ton of hero points, again. It also adds new options in PvP… except they all cost insane amounts of gold.
Do you think a new player will actually stay when they realize they cannot catch up to existing players? I honestly would not stay if I knew I had to grind through two regions the size of Magus Falls in order to have both of my elite specs.

The sad thing I realized is that I actually would rather the game expanded the level cap including having higher stat gear instead of gating content the way it’s doing now. At least that way would be less hostile to new players and not as grindy. This is something I would have been violently against before launch, but seeing how hard they’re trying to stop players from progressing actually makes me prefer gating behind levels and gear treadmills. Ouch.

I expected the game to be a large up-front payment for a large chunk of up-front, uninhibited content. What it actually is is a large up-front payment for the opportunity to consume tiny bites of a large chunk of content. If masteries required only mastery points and each Maguuma hero challenge was worth a single point and the elite spec cost the same as a regular spec + regular skill line, I would be totally satisfied with the amount of content that exists in the expansion. So all this gating just makes the game worse. Just make the masteries require only mastery points… even if it means they cost more each. At least then the progression becomes about overcoming difficult challenges, not overcoming easy content repeatedly for hours."

This game took a turn to worse and I’m not sure why.
Where and when did the community ever ask for it to be turned into an asian grinder?
A game should be fun, not work, but all this expansion does is hide content behind time consuming work.

TacticalLamp.7056:

User Tulki on Reddit has an incredible write up on this whole HoT debacle:

“I’m actually starting to agree with peoples’ sentiments. I love the new stuff that was added to the game. Elite specs are really cool, the jungle zones are ridiculously huge and fun to glide through, the music is fantastic, and the story is actually surprisingly well-paced and isn’t afraid to pull out dire character consequences. Many of the story steps are the kind of things that would make this subreddit explode if they were released as part of the living world chapters, it’s just that they’re not as talked about now because it was chunked out in bulk so there’s more to talk about.
HOWEVER. Everything is gated. Hard. ArenaNet is falling back on their pre-expansion ways of making everything a confusing chore, which is something I was hoping they would NOT do seeing as the expansion is already PAID.

I can’t play my elite spec properly until I’ve already completed 50-100% of the jungle including all masteries that gate those hero challenges, and some of them absolutely require groups. To make matters worse, some elite specs require pretty radical stat shifts from the previous meta, which are made more expensive by how ascended gear was changed to require more materials. Time-gated materials. I don’t think I’m ever going to use Scrapper in any serious capacity because I simply don’t have time to invest in the gear.

I have to grind mindlessly for masteries. In the case of language masteries I’m grinding to have the opportunity to grind to purchase items, as if this is supposed to make me feel accomplished.

Why are the new stat recipes not discovered in crafting? Why do they require random drops? Again, this was a paid expansion. I don’t understand why the new mechanics are gated to extremes I’d expect from a free game. I honestly expected things to work in a smooth, easy-to-understand way as everything in the base game did.
Why are there so many keys / baubles / crafting materials that don’t go into the wallet or material bank?

The masteries for precursor crafting require grinding for experience to gain the ability to dump ludicrous amounts of gold into an item. Turns out the epic journey to craft a coveted precursor is going somewhere and pressing ‘F’ and then running the Silverwastes and selling materials until you can craft it.

Why the hell do I have to pay 15g to unlock the PvP reward track for a mist champion which I then have to earn my way through to actually get the mist champion? Why are ALL of the new sigils, runes and amulets locked behind gold paywalls in PvP? There is no longer a level playing field, and I cannot consider PvP to be competitive any more. Seriously. Check out the prices yourself. If you want all options in PvP it costs an absolute kitten-ton.

Unfortunately, the systems in this expansion are tedious enough to make me feel like this is a free-to-play expansion, even though that’s not the case.
And, here is my biggest concern.
This type of expansion model will kill the game.

Suppose GW2’s second expansion comes out. It adds a new region, and a new elite spec to each profession. It adds a whole bunch of masteries. The masteries require kitten tons of experience, and the new elite spec requires a kitten ton of hero points, again. It also adds new options in PvP… except they all cost insane amounts of gold.
Do you think a new player will actually stay when they realize they cannot catch up to existing players? I honestly would not stay if I knew I had to grind through two regions the size of Magus Falls in order to have both of my elite specs.

The sad thing I realized is that I actually would rather the game expanded the level cap including having higher stat gear instead of gating content the way it’s doing now. At least that way would be less hostile to new players and not as grindy. This is something I would have been violently against before launch, but seeing how hard they’re trying to stop players from progressing actually makes me prefer gating behind levels and gear treadmills. Ouch.

I expected the game to be a large up-front payment for a large chunk of up-front, uninhibited content. What it actually is is a large up-front payment for the opportunity to consume tiny bites of a large chunk of content. If masteries required only mastery points and each Maguuma hero challenge was worth a single point and the elite spec cost the same as a regular spec + regular skill line, I would be totally satisfied with the amount of content that exists in the expansion. So all this gating just makes the game worse. Just make the masteries require only mastery points… even if it means they cost more each. At least then the progression becomes about overcoming difficult challenges, not overcoming easy content repeatedly for hours."

Awesome review!

Imo elite specs should rather be locked behind shorter story instances rather than mastery locked hero challenges. That would solve most of the problems – Hero challenges should be repeatable each day and should give a solid ammount of map reward currency, more than they do give now.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

Too little, to late i’m afraid Col. People are slating the expansion all over the net, you have committed the cardinal sin in gaming of alienating your casual player. The casuals are the ones that keep a game ticking over, pay for the newest skin, like to change their character design and pay for it.

Your current model will see these players leave in droves and will ultimately kill the game.

I’d have loved a personal story for each class for aquiring the elite spec. That wouldn’T even hurt if you’d have to do one of them twice or thrice.
I don’t like them to be attached to hero points too. But if it HAD to stay that way, then I think 120pts in total would be fairly enough. You could even ‘grind’ your elite in Tyria, for now, if you’re not into the new jungle maps for now, and for later, when the maps aren’t that populated anymore you could go back to Tyria to get your elite too.

ColinJohanson.2394:

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thank you Colin for this comment. I hope you guys can make a more final response to this whole issue soon. As it is, people like me are stuck in limbo, not knowing whether we should request a refund for Heart of Thorns or not.

I don’t mean to say this as a childish threat, but as an honest plea for straight answers. I’m perfectly fine with ArenaNet standing up for the game as they designed it, if that’s what they decide to do. My only problem is that the design isn’t what I thought I was buying.

Some background to my situation: I am a casual player that spends something like 4-5 hours per week playing Guild Wars 2. I almost exclusively play WvW, and I’m mostly solo roaming. It’s fun, and I think it’s a great game. But I have other things to do with my time as well.

My one incentive for purchaing Heart of Thorns was to play with the elite specializations. It’s not until after purchasing Heart of Thorns that I realize that I will need to earn a lot of Hero Points until I can actually play them. After spending a couple of hours in the new PVE maps — and they’re really gorgeous maps — my conclusion is that the elite specializations are probably months away, given my casual nature.

I hope by this explanation it is obvious that, to me, Heart of Thorns is not good value for the money.

requiring 400 hero points for the elite spec, is diametrically opposed to the act of making masteries and their progress, account bound.

masteries are at least alt friendly. elite specs are not.

elite specs shouldn’t feel like a reward for completing HoT. elite specs should be completely attainable (fully unlocked) by the time the character leaves Verdant Brink. at absolute worst, by the the time the character leaves Tarir.

The core GW2 allowed players to reach the aim through several different approaches as they see fit within their gaming tastes.

HoT does not give the player any control over the path they want to follow…

I like the way these hero points are earned and that you actually have to do something to unlock and master the elite spec. Its mostly a casuals thing, the people coming back for the expansion or that didnt bothered much with world completion got some work to do, but thats fine.

I dont like the implementation of the unlocking though. You basicly get a bar and put skill points in that, no lore, no info on how you get to use or how you discovered this new powers for your class. I would have loved a instance or that being inbound into the personal story how you learn these new insights.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

. at absolute worst, by the the time the character leaves Tarir.

Which is the case since you get 200+ HP from core tyria + 22*10 HP from VB and Tarir maps with some mastery unlocks..
Just saying.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

Thanks for the post.

Ultimately is your job and the time and money we invested in this game that can be lost due to slow reaction from ANet concerning all the HoT issues.

Arewn.2368:

Eponet.4829:

Comparing a single quality of life skill to the elite specs is hardly a fair comparison, it’s not a major playstyle change like several of them are. Berserker, tempest and daredevil seem to be the only ones that don’t completely shift the focus of the base profession.

A better comparison would be if you had to reach the new level cap as a paladin in order to unlock marksmanship hunter. (Guardian to dragonhunter)

We should be able to unlock the archer spec as an archer class, melee spec as a melee class, etc.

I mentioned heroic leap as a specific example, but they added several skills. Usually significantly changing each spec’s rotation in the process, with the new skills being necessary to it functioning, or an important cooldown. You’re essentially incomplete or broken as a class until you reach the new level cap. Or at least that’s how it was in the TBC-> WotLK and WotLK->Cata transition (after which I stopped playing). Similar can be said for FF14 ARR->HW, and many other MMOs.

And that’s a complete nonsense comparison lol
But if you want to play that game: Level as a ret pally and then switch to Holy or protection when you reach cap. Bam, same kitten thing. Some specs can level more efficiently then others, and it’s common to play those while leveling, even if it’s not what you plan to play at endgame.

At any rate, that’s for the most part a cherry-picked non-essential point to my argument.

In my experience, my priest, rogue, mage, and paladin all played essentially the same way between 90 and 100. There were some minor optimal rotational differences like pooling holy power being a thing, but due to leveling content not being raids, and leveling dungeons being easy enough, there was really no real reason for it to matter, what mattered was the feel of the class, and they all felt more or less unchanged.

None of them were forced to suddenly switch to a melee/ranged/pet class in order to progress. There’s the option to do so if you want, and that’s great, I’m always up for more options, my hunter actually leveled from 80-94 purely through spamming battle pets (Because battle pets are awesome) and 94-100 through PvP (Because I wanted the vengeful gladiator’s longbow for transmogrification), but it’s not enforced like the elite specs are, you can level a paladin as retribution and then switch to holy, or, like my paladin and priest did, you can just… level as holy/discipline. You’re never forced to level as retribution/shadow.

Also, WoW actually lets you level through more than one specific way. Guild Wars 2 has… hero points and world vs world (Which is tuned to the point where unless you’re karma training with boosters instead of actually PvPing, it’ll quite likely take you over a hundred hours, far, far longer than it took me to level from 1 to 100 in WoW. If we had a Maguuma mastery track (As regular XP is accumulated from basically anything in PvE) that awarded one of the WvWvW notary items on completion, and an SPvP track that did the same, it would be far more tolerable, as we’d be able to play, say, a ranger, then when we have enough notaries to unlock an elite spec, we could give it to a guardian without ever having to play the class with the worst ranged ability in order to play the ranged elite spec, or similarly with the druid and having to play a class with very little healing to allies, etc.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

You need to change this, and you need to change it soon, an announcement needs to come out in the next few days clearly stating exactly what and when you are making sweeping changes to how elite specs are obtained and progressed.

Most of all the majority of the expansion I am enjoying, so well done and thank you.

The only issues I have is

- Hero points with champions. Great if your with a group or one comes to help. Not so great if not. I had an hour to kill before work this morning and thought to myself that I would get some hp. Unfortunately I did not get a single one due to no one being in the areas and I could not solo them. Either raise the pop cap or please allow these to scale down better.

- Mastery system. I like it. However the progressive amount of xp needed goes against the “same xp for 20 to 80” and isn’t the reason I play this game. More xp from events is needed to feel more rewarding.

Thanks again.

The amt of hero points to get your elite spec is ridiculous. Then gate them behind masteries and put a bunch of overpowered mobs on top of them. All I want is my elite spec. There’s nothing in the new areas that’s going to keep me in them once I have my elite spec. Gliding is fun.. but I wont be going back to just glide. It’s not like any of the areas have a major city where one could go and hangout. Once people get their elite, if they don’t just stop playing and move to another game, those maps will be dead and anyone trying to go thru them will be angrier than most of us are now. I was looking forward to this expansion. I had high hopes. Now, I’m just angry

I paid out money in advance, based on my love of the game and the trust I put in the company that makes it. They traded on that trust when they asked us to fork over dollars in advance, based only on their press material. Those dollars helped them make the game.

No one should assume we were all just going to buy the game anyway; we could have easily waited until game day to see how it played out.

After a bunch of us committed, then all of the bad news starts rolling out; the game is going free (which I personally don’t mind), the older players get a free slot (which I haven’t received yet), the mind-screw that was the auto-builder. Now 400 group bosses x 9, just so I can actually have elite specializations?

Even if I was willing to farm HPs until Spring, is this seriously what we can expect for all future elite specializations? Does anyone honestly expect us to farm 400 HP for every new spec? It’s crazy; it will suck all the fun out of having this system. 400 points? If it’s going to be as much work as creating a new 80, then why didn’t they just make tempest, reaper, etc. new classes? At least that sets up some kind of rational expectation.

I trusted the company enough to pay in advance; I paid to be their beta-tester for three weekends. What makes this situation so funny is, the time I was play-testing daredevil’s evasion upgrades, I never realized that would be the only time I’d ever get to try them.

When you take money up front, you have a certain moral obligation to deliver on what you said you would. You can’t punt and say well, I didn’t expressly promise I WOULDN’T do this. Whatever happened to good faith?

I just don’t see how they will be able to get away with asking players to pre-purchase anything they make, ever again.

Anet lost their way with this expansion.

Having 8 Level 80’s, you really think it’s ‘fun’ for me to have to go out and farm roughly 2700+ points between all my characters to unlock each elite spec? It’ll simply be repeating content I’ve already done, which doesn’t interest me in doing. Elite spec’s are something I should be getting in the introductory HOT zone, and being able to utilize as I play through the rest of the content. You’ve lost the ‘play your way’ ideal that you were so proud of when GW2 launched, and have replaced it with things that quite frankly aren’t fun to play.

Masteries are okay, the exponential exp gain per rank might be a bit ridiculous, but elite spec’s costing 400 points is just simply proof ANET has really lost their way with what made GW2 so fun in the first place.

A majority of your playerbase is being very vocal about feeling disappointed with your choices. If you want a game you’ve spent years of your life creating to continue living, I suggest you listen.

Here’s hoping ANET listens to the community before they see an exponential loss in their playerbase. I have 2000+ hours in Guild Wars 2, it has been my go to MMO since its release, but I would be lying if I said I was happy about the current state of the game; so much so that I am not really inspired to login at this point.

Here is my take on Hot. I haven’t log in since it was released after knowing the requirement of 400 HP. Even though Anet said each hero’s challenges worth 10 HP, I knew it will be group events. And I was right.

There’s this magical feeling for first time exploring something new in a game for me. What I was expecting was that I can do this magical (virgin) exploration with my reaper not my necromancer. Of course I don’t expect to fully unlock the reaper but I was thinking to have at least the traits unlocked for the exploration (with the initial ~200 HP from world completion) so that I can learn the profession while doing it. From what read I can only use the new weapon and minor traits while doing the harder group event in the new maps.

Also I have 18/19 level 80s character (>6500 hours of play time). At first, I want to unlock at least 13-14 of them. Now I think I would only unlock reaper for my necro. Basically this is the same as the traits unlock back then minus the alternative method to do it. Imagine if Anet forced the players to unlock traits ONLY through the events, I’m pretty sure a lot of people will be unhappy with it.

I don’t care about grinding mastery, and I am ok with all these mushroom jumping, higher tier gliding unlock. I just want to grind it with my functional reaper with traits I can change when needed. I’ll not log in now because I’m disapointed with what Anet did. Will I log in in the future if Anet keep on with it? I would say yes after my initial resentment is gone. I’ll just do the story and unlock my reaper and be done with it until the next story chapter announced.