Guild Wars 2

Dashingsteel.3410:

The mastery system, raids, legendary journey, new achievement points, new maps….. This is the endgame.

Elite specs being overpriced at 400 hero points when they are not even elite. This is not endgame but it could be the end of the game for many. Hopefully Anet will fix this and the game I love will flourish.

Welp, i was writing the same thing, so this!

Dashingsteel.3410:

I guarantee you that one of their biggest selling points was not that the elite would cost 400 hero points. That little nugget of information was missing from all there presentations prior to release of the game. I wonder how many HoT prepurchases they would have lost had they informed their consumers.

They would have lost mine had I known the grindy design of the Elite specs. As it is, we haven’t upgraded two other accounts because of this issue. They make elite specs reasonable, I upgrade two more accounts.

Where is our end game Dungeon raiding for chests full of gold and rare loot?

Where are the massive boss’s that have a FAIR chance of legendary weapon drops or even ascended armour drops?

Where are the quests and story lines to unlock our elites? Why not have us go on a quest with a weapon master to unlock our elite weapons and skills?

Oh no we can’t have that as it’s direct character progression that doesn’t force us to grind the same content for days or weeks or months on a mouse wheel. We have to grind to over come GATES and than GRIND for tokens. It’s all about repeating content for weeks or months with zero chance or 0.001% chance of anything good dropping as loot.

Just look at the people who open thousands of champion bags and chests. The chance of anything dropping that is a direct gear upgrade for your character is 0.001% or if your lucky 0.003%. It’s insane.

After you overcome the waste that is Mastery’s to get your Elite Spec HOT becomes Silverwastes 2.0

I say the mastery’s are a waste as ther only purpose is to be a GATE. They add nothing to your character outside of HOT. The same applies for the fractal Mastery which now GATES you from fractal rewards we once had access too. Add the agony GATE to that and fractals are double GATED.

The agony system/grind in fractals which is another GATE in GW2 is a example of stretching content as you do the same fractal instances over and over till your sick of them. Now fractals are double GATED making it horrible.

Everything is focused on stretching content out using GATES that don’t advance your character and force you to repeat the same content hundreds of times till your bored of it.

This here is the problem. ^^^^^ This is why we are complaining.

The OLD spec system required you to go on quests to unlock your traits. A lot of this could be soled and it had a massive amount of variety. You could unlock a trait by doing a Jumping puzzle or completing a few events or killing a boss or exploring a area. Every trait was different and could be acquired without any GATES.

The old spec system had more build variety and was just a lot more fun. When they gutted the old spec system and only give us 3 out of 9 choices per spec line I was extremely disappointed. They took away the fun of hunting for traits and made building a unique spec far less viable.

Now we are forced to max out all the spec lines using Hero points removing the CHOICE of what we want to put points in while adding a 6th spec line that while good isn’t some fantastic advancement on our characters. We don’t even get a choice to save hero points for the elite spec. We have to use them all on spec lines we may never touch. It makes all characters the same.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Sicarius.4639:

“Most games you go out and you have really fun tasks occasionally and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swung a sword, I swung a sword again hey! I swung it again, that’s just great. We just don’t want players to grind in GW2, no one enjoys that, no one finds it fun…” – Just remember what you told us before we began this journey Colin.

This is rather funny to read becouse when/if they give everyone Max masteries and Max Elite spec by just logging in the game people will start to complain that there are not enough content in the game and start farming events on the new maps to earn gold to buy the precursor crafting mats on TP and then they will start to complain that GW2 is just about farming and Grinding and put that Quote on the forums again. It’s a never ending story. What’s funny is that most of the posts I have made is about how I havent farmed or grinded much in GW2 as I loathe that, except for tokens in dungeons and some LS stuff from season 1, I have never fealt that I have been forced to grind for something. Most of the stuff in the game comes to me by just playing it and it’s content.

I agree that Elite specs are a little too expensive and that timers on HP Challanges is Dumb but I still havent fealt forced to farm anything. I can enjoy the content as my scrapper actually, I don’t need 100% scrapper to enjoy it and I actually getting the Progression feeling everytime I unlock a new part for my scrapper. It is rather nice.

Good luck soloing the champions guarding the trait points with an incomplete trait line, because unless you’re willing to camp that spot for ages, that’s what you’re going to have to do with the hero challenge above Skyclaw Peaks.

It’s so out of the way, that unless you’re on during peak hour, you can’t count on other people just stumbling across it.

It was totally a downer for me that I need to unlock elite specs, worsened by my lack of time and the fact that I like WvW, where I cant unlock them.

One thing i don’t like is having to unlock everything on the core class before being able to spend HP on the elite spec. A lot of skills and traits are rubbish and i don’t want them. Why make me buy them?

Wasn’t suposedly a way to get Hero Points in WvW?

Victuswolf.5286:

Where is our end game Dungeon raiding for chests full of gold and rare loot?

It’s coming three weeks after the expansion launch, like they’ve been saying it would since raids were revealed in the first place.

Engel.6029:

Making Hero Points soloable would fix the problem.

This is the simplest and best solution.

Actually the simplest solution would be to make elite traitlines and utilities cost the same as normal traitlines and utilities. After all, there is nothing elite about these specs as they are on par with the normal professions.

Ardid.7203:

Wasn’t suposedly a way to get Hero Points in WvW?

There is, the only real issue I have is that it takes around 200 WvW rank ups to unlock the 400 hero points (maximum, sometimes you get lucky and earn more points).

If they increased the amount you earned per rank up I’d be perfectly content.

Farzo.8410:

Send your gold and other valuable items to Farzo.8410

Thanks,

Why in the world would someone send their things to someone that clearly hates them instead of one of the many others who they resonate with?

Eponet.4829:

Farzo.8410:

Send your gold and other valuable items to Farzo.8410

Thanks,

Why in the world would someone send their things to someone that clearly hates them instead of one of the many others who they resonate with?

They’re all leaving too?

Count me among the dissatisfied with how the Elite Spec was delivered. I was a Dragonhunter for all of 5 minutes before I realized how limited I was in lvl 80 areas without three fully fleshed-out Specs. Better to keep three full “non-elite” Specs than limp along with two full and one half-full “elite.” I don’t plan to enable Dragonhunter until it’s full, which is a shame.

I have no problem earning the full Spec, but by then I’ll probably be done with HoT. Was that really A-Net’s intent? I doubt it. Not sure they thought this one out.

Otherwise, very happy with the expansion. Great game.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

Thanks for checking in.

I’ve been doing nothing but playing all weekend since the minute of launch on a character that didn’t have full map completion. I’ve been concentrating mostly on hero points. I like to enjoy the game, and not rush, but I haven’t been dragging my heels on this. I’ve also done some WvW (as that is my main game mode), crafting, guild hall projects, Halloween events, and exploring other aspects of Hot.

I still don’t have my elite unlocked.

The biggest hold-ups are the mastery system and WvW issues.

Mastery system: right now, I’m trying to get to level 4 of the Izel (whatever) line where I can be in poison. There a a bunch of hero points gated behind this. While I have a birthday booster up all the time, Halloween food for the extra 5%, utility, and sometimes another xp booster, it is taking forever to gain this level. I’ve unlocked all the maps, but haven’t fully explored the last one. I’d rather have the story take me there (still gated behind mastery, even though you guys said you fixed it). Gaining this level is a real drag. I’ve been doing events and killing monsters left and right. It’s taking forever.

WvW is definately the faster way to go, at this point. Unfortunately a couple problems here. I was really looking forward to the reaper most, so I decided to start with that class. Unfortunately, this is not my commander; it’s very glassy. I don’t want to lead people, even on a k-train, in case we run into people, I want to command front line and not die (I’m also platinum, so I get sniped a lot). So, I can’t rally people, and I need other commanders to follow. There are none. I’m also on Blackgate, a T1 server. There’s no one on TS. The population is dead.

There are a few reasons for this. Everyone is also trying to level up one character with an elite spec, so everyone is in the new zones, like me. The other big issue is the new boarder land server performance. It sucks. Like the only thing you guys needed to get right is server performance. It doesn’t matter if we like or dislike the new maps, but we can’t even play on them. I was on for “reset” this weekend. It was awful. We all went to EB, and it wasn’t even qued. There was hardly any enemy to fight. EB! T1 server! Not qued a few hours into reset! So, anyway, it’s hard for me to earn hero points through WvW because I’m not leveling my commander character.

There are so many aspects of HoT that are great. Decent story so far. Absolutely gorgeous maps. Fun maps, imo, with lots going on and lots of places to explore. Precursor system. Guild halls are amazing. So much work went into that, thanks so much. These are the great things I paid for. I also paid for a new trait line and abilities, but I haven’t been able to enjoy them yet on one character after devoting about 35 hours towards it. Progression should be towards things like the new mastery system. Don’t hide hero points behind them, or at least not behind the very first level.

I just wonder what’s going to happen when the new maps become less popular, I imagine getting them on alts is going to suck.

The ONLY complaint I have, so far, is being unable to solo hero points that require combat.

I’m okay with difficulty. I’m okay with a really tough fight. I just want to be able to do that myself.

ZombieLeach.5862:

I understand people’s frustration, the game has been out about a day shouldn’t you have everything already? It’s what Anet has done in the past; why not now? 400 hero points should be like 40, right? To be real, I expected this hate outburst. Anet adds harder content and everyone who just wants their stuff now crawls out of the woodwork. Just chill. You have a right to complain but senseless hate won’t help. Make suggestions, offer solutions, and try to make the experience better for everyone not worse with venom. :/

Stop confusing arbitrary time gating as harder content. I see that equivocation in this forum all the time. The new spec unlocking is an arbitrary time gate, it is NOT “harder” content that is challenging or interesting. It is only a time-sink to get to the fun.

Silverstone.4539:

I think people are just being a bit over the top. So on the BWE we got it handed to us on a plate, did not have to do a thing for the Elite specs. Now we do in the full game. Get over it. I already have Full 100% on both Mes and now Reverent, in less than 4 days. When GW2 first came out it took me longer than that just to get one to 100%. Give it time, Mastery is the only thing that really slows you down, and it only has to be done once.

I would be disappoint if Anet changed it, it’s meant to be endgame.

The new specializations are NOT meant to be endgame. They are another way to play your character. Endgame is high level fractals, WvW, sPvP, Legendaries, Living Story installments and soon, Raiding. Getting a spec to make your character finally play somewhat different from the past 3 years is not endgame.

You would have thought they have learned this lesson from the NPE failure of gating traits behind events completion. Thank god that was removed.

This may get lost in the flood, but I am leaving my feedback here:

If the elite specializations, defined as the set of skills and traits, are equitable with other, core, skills and traits, then I would expect the cost both in time spent and in hero points to be equitable.

If the cost in both time and hero points is disproportionally higher, then I would expect that the elite specializations would provide a comparably disproportionate advantage over the core skills and traits.

I am ok with balanced elite specializations at an equitable cost.
I am also ok with unbalanced, advantageous elite specializations, at a higher cost.

I am not ok with balanced elite specializations at an arbitrarily higher cost.

Most of this expansion is awesome.

However the way to get the new Specialisations is simply AWEFULL!

I hate it so much that every time I try to get some new points for my Revenant I log of after 10 minutes of failed attempts to get some new hero points in the HOT maps.

Then I think that I would like to have all my 9 Character Classes with their Elite spec… it saps all the fun out of playing the game. Knowing that I will have to grind for hours and hours and hours on just the same spots to get them.

If I could complete 3 fractals for 10 skill points. Do 1-2 hours of WvW for 10 skill points or do 1-2 hours of pvp for 10 skill points. Sure it would still take quite a while to unlock. But at least I could have FUN doing it.

The current system is simply NOT fun! There is no fun in doing the same hero challenges over and over and over again and no real other choice (ok there is mindless wvw grinding but thats so slow and I personally do not like wvw at all so meh only choice is to grind hero challenges)

Where the Mastery System is how a good new mechanic should be implemented (account bound). The Elite Spec aquiring mechanic is the polar opposite, it hurts more with every extra character.

Amon I wish I could give you a +1000 for your post. That is exactly how I feel.

Here is what it comes down to for me personaly: I wanted to play the new specs since I’ve seen them on the livestreams and previews, and I did not even think that we would unlock them instantly. I always presumed that it would take at least some effort or time to unlock them, but this is just a mess. My plan was to explore the new maps at my own pace, having fun exploring and leveling masteries as a Scrapper/Reaper/whatever, but what I am really doing is desperately rushing through every map so I can get the required hero points. What choices do I have? Save the good stuff for later so I can play it like I itended to (but not really, since I cannot unsee the new maps or events), or play it with the same class I played since launch?

Really, it is like going through HoT with blinkers on: just… need… hero points.

Amon.3192:

This may get lost in the flood, but I am leaving my feedback here:

If the elite specializations, defined as the set of skills and traits, are equitable with other, core, skills and traits, then I would expect the cost both in time spent and in hero points to be equitable.

If the cost in both time and hero points is disproportionally higher, then I would expect that the elite specializations would provide a comparably disproportionate advantage over the core skills and traits.

I am ok with balanced elite specializations at an equitable cost.
I am also ok with unbalanced, advantageous elite specializations, at a higher cost.

I am not ok with balanced elite specializations at an arbitrarily higher cost.

You just won the argument. I couldn’t agree more.

What this has reminded me is to ALWAYS listen to my Gut.

If my Gut is saying ’Rococo this is just a fancy LS3 reskin ’

or’ why do they need to take all the rewards away from the rest of the game to make HoT attractive to play?’

or ‘Traits Thread #never forget’

Then to save face its best to not hand cash to money grubbing Bookah’s

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

End of Monday now. Thoughts/feedback from Anet? It’s all well and good for us to keep discussing these things, but the most effective way for us to discuss this would be to know where Anet is thinking of going with it. What ideas are you considering, because we can tell you right now whether or not some of them will be good. What ideas will you be completely ignoring? Are you even talking about it? Is the discussion soon? I’d imagine that it’d come soon (as in, if I were an employee monitoring the forums, the outcry would make me want the meeting to have been earlier today).

Also think that updating the community on what is being changed would be a great way to dissuade hasty decisions from those thinking of throwing in the towel, leaving poor reviews, etc.

Just keep us updated. We’ll enjoy that. If you’re thinking that it’s never going to happen, let us know (so that I can just return to playing WoW). If you’re thinking it’ll happen in a few weeks, let us know what we need to prepare on our alts to get a head start. Just let us know.

Without any rush of my own, I started collecting Hero Points. Just at a leisurely pace as I explore the maps, stop for bosses and events, stop for vistas and masteries. If I arrive at a Hero Point that is empty I ask in map chat if anyone is interested. The minimum so far that I did a Champion Hero Point was with 3 people including myself. So far, I am having a great time. I play solo with no guild but I do find a person here or there that is willing to work together towards a common goal, or even just being helpful. So I haven’t had any issues and it doesn’t feel grindy at all. No repetition, just new and awesome exploration.

Amon.3192:

This may get lost in the flood, but I am leaving my feedback here:

If the elite specializations, defined as the set of skills and traits, are equitable with other, core, skills and traits, then I would expect the cost both in time spent and in hero points to be equitable.

If the cost in both time and hero points is disproportionally higher, then I would expect that the elite specializations would provide a comparably disproportionate advantage over the core skills and traits.

I am ok with balanced elite specializations at an equitable cost.
I am also ok with unbalanced, advantageous elite specializations, at a higher cost.

I am not ok with balanced elite specializations at an arbitrarily higher cost.

You hit that nail on the head.

The new “elite” specs are not elite in any way, other than the grind required to unlock them. It is artificial grind created to make the expansion appear bigger.

What the current design does is make the expansion a bigger pain in the… kitten.

This has been said, but I want to repeat it.

The “Elite” specialties are not giving extra powers or ground breaking abilities. It’s simply a 6th (you have 5 already) trait line that allows you to play a class a different way.

I was fine with having to play HoT to advance and gain traits and skills. The idea that the player gains these skills with experience in the new area; is great for RP and actually a nice dovetail with the story mechanics.

That said…having to kill champs to get them is simply asinine. Asking us to use skill to get them; I am fine with that. Do jumping puzzles, riddles, a balanced one on one fight with an enemy that is skilled. Putting some massive hitpoints and one shot killer in the mix is just sloppy game structure.

Also the number is too kitten high for a 6th trait line. 270 pts would have been fine. Yes, power grinders would have gotten them unlocked on the first day….. so what!?

Oh no, they can use the Reaper elite….is it any more powerful than Lich form? Does giving a warrior I’ve played since August 2012 some torch traits 24 hours after release; really affect my or anyone else’s quality of play in a negative light?

Most of us who really love this game, have 8 (now 9) characters. You are going to make us jump through all the hoops 9 times?
I’ve put my fist through someone’s face for less insult than that; and ANet wants to treat their most loyal customers like that?

Please, fix this fiasco. Let’s face it; the only reason this hasn’t turned off your playerbase completely is a lack of competition.

Now that I’ve spent 20 hours grinding out my first elite spec, this makes me wonder quite a bit about something: future content.

Currently, most of the hero points spawn a champion + adds, many of which are not the same pushovers they once were. This is fine, assuming that there are other players who are around to help you. But even by yourself, you’ll encounter champions with waves of adds.

Problem is, most of the HoT maps I play are already nearly a ghost town. Send out the call for help, and you’ll get 1 or 2 people in the space of 10 minutes if you’re lucky. After discovering this fact, I had to resolve to burn through all the specialization points before the maps became too dead to function.

It is also annoying how much of the map specific features are dependent on ill-timed global events. Especially when they lock away hero points behind them. Heck, the only reason why I was able to do an e-spec in 20 hours is because someone else made a guide on how to do it, and I got lucky and had a somewhat coordinated hero-point train running map at one point.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Now that I’ve spent 20 hours grinding out my first elite spec, this makes me wonder quite a bit about something: future content.

Currently, most of the hero points spawn a champion + adds, many of which are not the same pushovers they once were. This is fine, assuming that there are other players who are around to help you. But even by yourself, you’ll encounter champions with waves of adds.

Problem is, most of the HoT maps I play are already nearly a ghost town. Send out the call for help, and you’ll get 1 or 2 people in the space of 10 minutes if you’re lucky. After discovering this fact, I had to resolve to burn through all the specialization points before the maps became too dead to function.

It is also annoying how much of the map specific features are dependent on ill-timed global events. Especially when they lock away hero points behind them. Heck, the only reason why I was able to do an e-spec in 20 hours is because someone else made a guide on how to do it, and I got lucky and had a somewhat coordinated hero-point train running map at one point.

I feel bad for anyone who tries to get these points in a few months.

MrH.2591:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Now that I’ve spent 20 hours grinding out my first elite spec, this makes me wonder quite a bit about something: future content.

Currently, most of the hero points spawn a champion + adds, many of which are not the same pushovers they once were. This is fine, assuming that there are other players who are around to help you. But even by yourself, you’ll encounter champions with waves of adds.

Problem is, most of the HoT maps I play are already nearly a ghost town. Send out the call for help, and you’ll get 1 or 2 people in the space of 10 minutes if you’re lucky. After discovering this fact, I had to resolve to burn through all the specialization points before the maps became too dead to function.

It is also annoying how much of the map specific features are dependent on ill-timed global events. Especially when they lock away hero points behind them. Heck, the only reason why I was able to do an e-spec in 20 hours is because someone else made a guide on how to do it, and I got lucky and had a somewhat coordinated hero-point train running map at one point.

I feel bad for anyone who tries to get these points in a few months.

At the rate the jungle is bleeding players to EotM for the easier (comparative) elite, I feel bad for those trying to get them in a few days.

Yeah I was being generous I guess, they really didn’t think this through at all.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

I am loving the expansion! I was hoping for something good and my expectations were exceeded! Thanks! :-)

I am good with things as they are regarding masteries and hero points. For my main, I’m already getting pretty close to being done with the story and have most of my elite specialization unlocked.

I have 8 other level 80 characters and I don’t mind doing the hero points on those either, as it is something meaningful for the characters. It is nice for my characters to be able to “earn” their elite line.

If you were to make a change, the following was kind of a hybrid approach I was thinking about that could maybe get people into their elites quicker while still rewarding progression and giving people options as far as what HP’s to take on.

Possible change:

Each HoT HP give 20 hero points.
Each new skill in the elite line require 10 hero points.
Increase the rate at which HP’s can be earned in WvW by 2.
Have an achievement and title for completing all HoT’s HP’s.

Extra hero points (in a future update): The difference between the total hero points that could be gained from HoT HP’s and the cost to completely unlock an elite line could be traded to Miyani for some type of cool skin/visual distinction that marked out heroes from the Heart of the Thorns.

Thanks again for the expansion! Loving it.

MrH.2591:

Yeah I was being generous I guess, they really didn’t think this through at all.

Really. You think the folks whose livelihoods depend on the game and have been working towards this release for about two years now didn’t think about it?

They have different MOTIVES than you, and different goals, but there’s no question who in this conversation hasn’t “thought about it”.

Everyone who missed the first wave of hardcore players with Maxed gear and specs will find it exponentially harder to do 400 grindo points.

Why are people who unlocked elites in a few days with all the advantages arguing that for example shift workers who play off peak should have to take weeks or months to unlock something they paid the same money for. There seems a mean spirited nastiness to enjoying class mechanics being locked behind grind gates that require wildly different time investment depending on how many advantages people had when tackling the grind gates.

The players who view themselves as hardcore actually had it fracking easy.

Nike.2631:

Really. You think the folks whose livelihoods depend on the game and have been working towards this release for about two years now didn’t think about it?

Yep.

Just like they didn’t predict the massive outcry when they announced the price of the expansion.

Or when they announced the new “gold to gem” conversion system.

Or any of the other times when they had to take back a decision they had made because of a massive community outcry that they didn’t properly predict.

You can claim that ArenaNet is perfect and thinks everything through correctly and perfectly. This mess with the specialization points show otherwise.

If anything, this is a sign of how poorly they are doing. People are complaining because the specializations are locked behind a grind wall. The grind wall exists because ArenaNet is trying to artificially inflate the duration of HoT. They are artifically trying to inflate the duration of HoT because the expansion has very little content. HoT has very little content because ArenaNet couldn’t make more, even after all this time working on the expansion without adding new content to the core game. ArenaNet couldn’t make more content because they are extremely ineffective at making things.

And that explains why they are doing so poorly. We know that:

• ArenaNet had basically to make server merges with the megaserver thing, due to how empty the maps were.

• ArenaNet itself had said that, if they did it right, the Living World would mean they wouldn’t make an expansion. Here we are with an expansion, hinting that no, they didn’t do the Living World right.

• We also know the GW2 earnings during the Living World and, accordingly, it didn’t stop falling. Not only the LW didn’t raise the earnings like expansions do, it didn’t even prevent them from falling.

• GW2 became free to play, and we know that no MMORPG went free to play when its previous business model was being a success.

• NCSoft, which completely owns ArenaNet, has distanced itself from GW2. We have been told that it’s ArenaNet who’s publishing GW2 now, instead of NCSoft; the lack of advertisement about HoT is a very clear sign of how few resources ArenaNet has as far as publishing goes when compared to NCSoft itself.

• HoT has been released in a hurry, with many promised features that aren’t actually here but have been postponed for “later” (legendary weapons – they didn’t release even the three they had mentioned earlier -, raids, the new squad system, etc…).

• Lots of important people have left ArenaNet this year. Chris Whiteside, Eric Flannum, Jon Peters, Kristen Perry… Many of those have left in the last few months.

If they really did think so thoughtfully about things, they wouldn’t be in the middle of all those issues.

With the current mess about the specialization grind being just one more mess among many.

The rushed release of HoT does not bode well for GW2 future…

My two cents…
I spend 100% of my time in WvW doing small man roaming. During the beta weekends my guild and I spent time with all of the new elites and by the third one we were really focusing on group comps. All of us have every class and we have a lot of flexibility in our group comps. We can add and/or switch classes depending on how effective we are that night. Most of us were focusing on playing 2-3 early on.

We had taken Friday off thinking we were going to be spending the day in the new BL. Then the bomb was dropped on Tuesday saying elites would require 400 HP. My most advanced character had 98 HP. Most had zero. My current Main had 4. I spent 3-4 hours doing some map complete before the release and gained about 90 HP. It sucked since I don’t like that stuff. Then Friday rolls around and instead of actually playing I spent all day getting characters to SW and doing that story over and over and over and over and over again. Then I started on my main and did HP for hours. By Saturday I had enough to unlock the elite on my main. So, two days. Then on Sunday I started doing the same HP thst I did the day before on my next character. I really struggled. So boring doing it all again. I tried getting ranks in WvW, but it is totally dead since everyone is getting forced into the jungle.

Doing ranks in WvW would take months unless you did karma train with boosters, that is not appealing either and would take three times longer. So, I will have to keep doing these HP on each character, again and again and again and again and again and again. I’m already burned out on it and am struggling to even get the second one through.

One of my guild mates isn’t even trying, he hasn’t been on at all. We also have several that were waiting to come back for the expansion, but there is no way they are doing that now. Come back, PVE for hours doing the same thing over and over and over again and maybe after 5-6 hours you can play the new elite. Then do it all over again on the next character. No way they are going to do that. So, I’m bummed they aren’t going to come back.

There are lots of ways to level, but really only one viable way to get your elite. Go do the jungle HPs over and over and over and over and over again

sigh I don’t know how to feel about this. I am a super-causal player having only 78 hero points with 44% map complete (this is not a whine just a bit of perspective).

On the positive hand I am enjoying the HoT content a 100% percent. I love the events, the masteries, the story is magnificent. I still need to do fractals whom look promising with the new changes. All of this “distracts me” from getting my elite spec.

On the negative hand I wish I could be doing all these events, masteries and story as a Scrapper. But I can’t. I will have to do all the hero points in the jungle which impossible to do solo. I’m sure A-net will “fix this” so I will wait…..or more accurate I will keep raising my masteries.

I need 32 more hero points to get the reaper traits I want. So the hard part should be over… I’ll still have 2 unlocks left to get the achievement and the rune… Which reminds me.

You need to max out the elite spec to get the corresponding rune. I want Rune of the Scrapper and Rune of the Chronomancer even though I don’t want to play those professions in the immediate future. I am already burnt out on collecting hero points. This is ridiculous.

Test.8734:

Nike.2631:

Really. You think the folks whose livelihoods depend on the game and have been working towards this release for about two years now didn’t think about it?

Yep.

Just like they didn’t predict the massive outcry when they announced the price of the expansion.

Or when they announced the new “gold to gem” conversion system.

Or any of the other times when they had to take back a decision they had made because of a massive community outcry that they didn’t properly predict.

You can claim that ArenaNet is perfect and thinks everything through correctly and perfectly. This mess with the specialization points show otherwise.

If anything, this is a sign of how poorly they are doing. People are complaining because the specializations are locked behind a grind wall. The grind wall exists because ArenaNet is trying to artificially inflate the duration of HoT. They are artifically trying to inflate the duration of HoT because the expansion has very little content. HoT has very little content because ArenaNet couldn’t make more, even after all this time working on the expansion without adding new content to the core game. ArenaNet couldn’t make more content because they are extremely ineffective at making things.

And that explains why they are doing so poorly. We know that:

• ArenaNet had basically to make server merges with the megaserver thing, due to how empty the maps were.

• ArenaNet itself had said that, if they did it right, the Living World would mean they wouldn’t make an expansion. Here we are with an expansion, hinting that no, they didn’t do the Living World right.

• We also know the GW2 earnings during the Living World and, accordingly, it didn’t stop falling. Not only the LW didn’t raise the earnings like expansions do, it didn’t even prevent them from falling.

• GW2 became free to play, and we know that no MMORPG went free to play when its previous business model was being a success.

• NCSoft, which completely owns ArenaNet, has distanced itself from GW2. We have been told that it’s ArenaNet who’s publishing GW2 now, instead of NCSoft; the lack of advertisement about HoT is a very clear sign of how few resources ArenaNet has as far as publishing goes when compared to NCSoft itself.

• HoT has been released in a hurry, with many promised features that aren’t actually here but have been postponed for “later” (legendary weapons – they didn’t release even the three they had mentioned earlier -, raids, the new squad system, etc…).

• Lots of important people have left ArenaNet this year. Chris Whiteside, Eric Flannum, Jon Peters, Kristen Perry… Many of those have left in the last few months.

If they really did think so thoughtfully about things, they wouldn’t be in the middle of all those issues.

With the current mess about the specialization grind being just one more mess among many.

That’s a real shame, to lose good people. Personally, I’d rather put up some bones each month, than see the game go out, or drop down in quality. If I could pay 15 bucks a month for WoW, for like years, it’s not hard to shell out at least a few bones each month for gw2. I do tend to buy stuff from the online store – but I don’t know how much of that actually makes up for not having a monthly.

Nike.2631:

MrH.2591:

Yeah I was being generous I guess, they really didn’t think this through at all.

Really. You think the folks whose livelihoods depend on the game and have been working towards this release for about two years now didn’t think about it?

They have different MOTIVES than you, and different goals, but there’s no question who in this conversation hasn’t “thought about it”.

Them thinking about it and thinking it through are two very very different things. Their goal is to make money through there game and by constantly implementing systems that either infuriate or frustrate the player they aren’t going to do that. You’re correct that they are thinking about it differently in that they want to keep people playing in order to make money, but they aren’t thinking it through. They implement hardcore grind to keep people playing, but most people will see the grind and stop playing. It’s not like the grind is cleverly hidden either, it’s blatant. The outcry from such shouldn’t come as a surprise because it’s well known that out and out grind is not popular or fun. Remember the GW2 design manifesto…

ArenaNet does not think things through. I’ll give you a shining example to back my claim. Remember when new commander tags were being put in? They were literally the only thing that ever came of the WvW CDI’s. Now in those CDI’s it was talked about AT LENGTH why new commander tags were needed and what functionality they needed. The idea was that adding at the very least new colors would allow for commanders to switch colors to coordinate attacks and defense. So what does ArenaNet do? They add new commander tags but make players pay for each color. That of course runs counter to the entire purpose of wanting new tags, since the cost of a commander tag is not trivial and WvW is not known for it’s immense gold farming opportunities. The players INSTANTLY upon seeing how terrible this was implemented whip into a frenzy of outcry and only then does it dawn on ArenaNet that it was a bad system and they change it. The fact that it was a 5 minute photoshop job and the only real improvement to WvW in 2(?) years didn’t really help things either. They saw the chance to gouge players and keep them grinding, yet somehow didn’t think that it would anger the players when it completely kills the reason for implementing it in the first place.

This is not the only time this has happened. Every single major patch there is at least 1 system that is not thought out and ultimately makes the game worse. ArenaNet has changes that sound awful on paper and are worse on implementation. Even better is they can announce what sounds like a slam dunk awesome change and STILL have a horrible implementation, case in point elite specs. A new way to play your character! Only need to grind your face off for dozens of hours..New Legendary collection! Only they cost more than just buying it off the tp. Their current formula is to identify what make players happy and stick a butt load of grinding in front of it.

Well I’ve had 100% world completion on my main, I’ve seen a lot of HHoT by now, got some masteries, even found all insights in the first map (while one of them can’t be gathered before reaching Itzel IV) But I only got 4 HP’s so far.
I don’t feel like running after them. I’m not even interested in doing so. I just spent an hour trying to figure out how to even GET to one of them before I gave up.
There’s no way I’d ever do that again, on neither Alt. That’s all but funny.
Not everyone is a supermegar0xx0r-pro, and I don’t even want to become one.
I want to enjoy playing, and spending weeks to figure out how to get the necessary HP’s to be able to equip a full elite spec is not what hits my taste.
I know there are people out there that already completed them. Fine for them. I didn’t and probably won’t for a long, long time.
That really takes away a whole chunk of fun.

As with many others have expressed I’m a little disappointed with how long it takes to fully unlock the elite specialization via hero points.

It seems super counter productive to give us these new class specializations only after we have played through all the PvE content. I don’t feel it is entitled or an unreasonable statement when I say I would be having a lot more fun right now if I were playing the elite specialization, while at the same time enjoying the new story.

This is expansion is the single most restrictive content you have ever put in the game and it does the game as a whole a huge disservice.

Dralor.3701:

As with many others have expressed I’m a little disappointed with how long it takes to fully unlock the elite specialization via hero points.

It seems super counter productive to give us these new class specializations only after we have played through all the PvE content. I don’t feel it is entitled or an unreasonable statement when I say I would be having a lot more fun right now if I were playing the elite specialization, while at the same time enjoying the new story.

This is expansion is the single most restrictive content you have ever put in the game and it does the game as a whole a huge disservice.

I’m inclined to agree with this assessment. Elite Specs are a huge part of the marketing of this expansion, yet are far too difficult to actually fully unlock. I also worry that this might set the bar for how future elite specializations are all going to have to be.

400 HP is just far too much for an entire specialization.

Lets get a response acknowledging this problem. No one likes it. We are only talking about ONE thing here in this thread and that’s Elite Specializations. No need to sugar coat it with the feedback is positive for HoT. Maybe that’s true, but the Elite Specializations aren’t.

Whilst I dislike the fact that we have to get all the challenges in HoT to fully unlock the class. What I really can’t live with is the fact that every challenge has a champion in it. Seriously? Even if I’ve got the mastery and know where it is I can’t get it because there’s a stupid champion with a 5 minute timer making it almost impossible to solo.

It is just so rage inducing, please either remove the reset timers(I can solo a fair amount of them) or downgrade them to elites. Really that’s the absolute minimum that Anet should do considering that it will be near impossible to get people to help on skill points in a months time.

Machop.3154:

Dralor.3701:

As with many others have expressed I’m a little disappointed with how long it takes to fully unlock the elite specialization via hero points.

It seems super counter productive to give us these new class specializations only after we have played through all the PvE content. I don’t feel it is entitled or an unreasonable statement when I say I would be having a lot more fun right now if I were playing the elite specialization, while at the same time enjoying the new story.

This is expansion is the single most restrictive content you have ever put in the game and it does the game as a whole a huge disservice.

I’m inclined to agree with this assessment. Elite Specs are a huge part of the marketing of this expansion, yet are far too difficult to actually fully unlock. I also worry that this might set the bar for how future elite specializations are all going to have to be.

400 HP is just far too much for an entire specialization.

I agree, 400 is way too much. 300 would have been better number. Even people with world complete would still have to complete 10 challenges, which are gated., so it wouldn’t be instant elite. The average player would have to get more points, but there would be some flexibility. It wouldn’t be soul sucking to get core world points (if you’re not into getting world complete, it’s soul sucking work) and HoT points. It gives the average player options, which is supposed to be the game design they were originally going for. Also, supporting other players points, more of the hero points challenges should be solo-able.

Sonickeyblade.8415:

No one wants all the content given to them to start. No one is asking for full Mastery to start. No one is asking for High PvP or WvW ranks. No one has a problem with the way Strongholds are working or that you have to work towards Raids or Guild Halls.

But the Elite Spec issue is the only one that stands out as a mistake. And if you want to know why I think this happened? It’s because this was one of the few features not tested by the community. It probably seemed good on paper and internal testing. But not everyone plays the game the same.

just taking this part before i reply to the whole thing.

There ARE people who find the raids to be an issue. I havent heard of an update but last time i checked, there were no levels of difficulty for the raids system so that people can enjoy the story without needing full ascended and the free time that amounts to a full time job to play this game. there SHOULD be a way for players to enjoy raids witout needing to break their back of exclude the vast vast majority of players from enjoying that content. having tiered raids is a perfectly fine solution that grants difficulty for those who want it and gives access to players less skilled oor with less time.

On to the rest.

Sonickeyblade.8415:

I’m fine with Anet waiting before jumping to make a decision. At least they are aware people are seeing this.

That said, I’m in the group that thinks the Elite Specs and Hero Point system didn’t work. You can list a bunch of reasons why: the Unlocking method of Elite Specs was never Beta tested, Elite Specs are already unlocked in PvP but nowhere else, the current method of unlocking Elite specs is tedious and cumbersome for ONE character, let alone a group… etc. But the truth is that it didn’t work.

Mastery progression was done WONDERFULLY. Progress in PvP was done right. The HoT story was done mostly well (and what wasn’t is being fixed by Anet). Raids and making content harder was done right. All of those are great examples of horizontal progression.

But the unlocking of Hero Points and Elite specs are not. When you’re ignoring most of the story and exploration to unlock your spec SO that you can enjoy the story and exploration… I think the plan has failed. I like gliding. I love bouncing off mushrooms. Alas, I can’t enjoy any of that because I have to hunt down every Hero Point I find. And while some people are fine with the way things are… I don’t think that’s how Anet wanted us to play.

Oh and let’s not forget that some Hero Points are gated. :p Hero points were never a group thing before. They were a reward for exploration. That’s not the case now. Unless you can solo a Champion or have all of your mastery points first.

The only thing worse then the current situation with the Elite specs is the folks who don’t exactly agree that the current system is flawed and just belittle the entire conversation without seeing the other side of the argument. It’s holding back any constructive feedback that can be given.

No one wants all the content given to them to start. No one is asking for full Mastery to start. No one is asking for High PvP or WvW ranks. No one has a problem with the way Strongholds are working or that you have to work towards Raids or Guild Halls.

But the Elite Spec issue is the only one that stands out as a mistake. And if you want to know why I think this happened? It’s because this was one of the few features not tested by the community. It probably seemed good on paper and internal testing. But not everyone plays the game the same.

I don’t blame Anet for this. It’s just one of those things they probably just didn’t see coming. Alas, it is now here. And I hope we get a fix once they realize this isn’t a Weekend Launch issue or Fist Week Launch issue and just an unfortunate (and understandable) miscalculation on their end.

Apart from the above, i 100% agree with this. The lack of BWE testing of maguuma hero points was a BIG mistake, one that lead to this scenario and all the justified outcry (including my voice). The hero points NEED ot be adjusted to be soloable while providing some challenge. I did a hero challenge today that REQUIRED chronomancers. specifically chronomancers for their alacrity and a mango pie for health regen. without chronomancers, the hero point would literally be unattainable. it’;s a flawed design from start to finish when you NEED a specific elite specialisation to have reached far enough to grant aoe alacrity to allies in order to beat a specific hero point challenge.
Champions need to be WAY toned down, gimmicks like the above that REQUIRE certain elite specs to beat need to be thrown outright and redesigned from the bottom up. ALL hero challenges need to be reworked and ON TOP of that, the number of hero points needed to fully unlock an elite spec needs to go WAY down. it needs to be manageable to obtain for multiple characters. i’ve had to stop playing mltiple times because of how draining it was to look for hero points to play the way i want. Yes, SOME challege and some hero poitn gathering is necessary, that ultimate progression is needed and healthy for the game, but this double combo of group hero points, arbitrary gimmicks and the INSANE number of hero points points to a large need to redesign the system as it currently stands.

Tl;dr : Redesign the hero point/elite specialisation unlock system. Number of hero points MUST go down. Difficulty of hero challenges MUST go down. Gimmicks like the boar hero challenge which require chronomancers with aoe alacrity MUST be completely removed and replaced with something else. All hero points must be attainable solo. If nothing else on that list happens, all hero points must be soloable, even the uselessly arbitrary gimmicky ones.