Guild Wars 2

Add damage meters to squads!

Will you consider showing things like Life Force or available dodges on the new UI? Or just real simple things like applied boons/conditions?

Life Force appeared the same way as health on the squad UI last beta, I hope it would be possible to address this.

The full problem is that squads are trying to recreate parties, yet are missing all the benefits of the entire party system. It’s essentially recreating the wheel.

I hope that threads created specifically for feedback were part of the feedback, like WvW >.> Hopefully all the feedback will help, because as is, it was definitely not something WvW players were looking forward to.

Thanks for the update on this, and the intended plans for it.

Does this mean raids will be unavailable until the new squad UI comes out?

fictitiousacct.1782:

Does this mean raids will be unavailable until the new squad UI comes out?

Raids will not launch until a month after HoT to give people time to do the story and get the required masteries without feeling left behind.

Please consider adding a damage meter to the squad UI functionality so we can improve our builds/efficiency. A personal one is fine or a group wide one.

fictitiousacct.1782:

Does this mean raids will be unavailable until the new squad UI comes out?

We already knew that Raids will be released with a delay, and won’t be there on launch day, so it’s likely the answer is yes.

Also, please, no to the damage meter.

Im surprised that something so small has such a huge impact..

Im not a dev, so I won’t spout off anything silly, but I hope it’s ready when you say it’s planned for.

Is there any information regarding boon sharing priorities within a single squad?
Will it prioritize members of the same subgroup or will it be based on proximity and other factors such as before party priorities existed?

Ideally the Enhanced Squad UI represents the possibility for large groups to organize a larger macrocosm into self-sufficient entities in order to culminate into one single organized group. However, if there is a disconnect in such a core necessity for a successful group as boon control, the purpose is then lost.

Subgroups being the priority for boonshare is ideal so that squads can be organized based upon boon/effect necessities (Guardians with other melee to grant Stability in encounters where it is deemed necessary, Mesmers with professions who benefit greatly from alacrity and quickness, etc.).

If this has already been addressed, I apologize.

SgtJanitor.3164:

Is there any information regarding boon sharing priorities within a single squad?
Will it prioritize members of the same subgroup or will it be based on proximity and other factors such as before party priorities existed?

Ideally the Enhanced Squad UI represents the possibility for large groups to organize a larger macrocosm into self-sufficient entities in order to culminate into one single organized group. However, if there is a disconnect in such a core necessity for a successful group as boon control, the purpose is then lost.

Subgroups being the priority for boonshare is ideal so that squads can be organized based upon boon/effect necessities (Guardians with other melee to grant Stability in encounters where it is deemed necessary, Mesmers with professions who benefit greatly from alacrity and quickness, etc.).

If this has already been addressed, I apologize.

yes, that is how it’s intended to work. Devs addressed that before the beta weekend actually. It just wasn’t working that way for bwe3.

-_- damage meters… There is a point where too much information is a bad thing.

Amazing news. This will improve a lot the quality of life from the WvW squads. It will help a lot to coordinate stuff.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Thanks for all your feedback and help testing the work-in-progress Enhanced Squad UI during Beta Weekend 3! While we encountered some issues during the beta test, it was great to see it up and running by the end of the weekend so we could get your input. And there was a lot of great feedback! As a result, we’ve decided to hold off on releasing the first version of the new UI until a few weeks after the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™. This will give us a little more time to properly address the issues that were encountered as well as add some needed polish.

We expect this first version to be a great enhancement to squads, including introducing the “commanderless squad” that provides basic squad functionality for a group of 10 players that doesn’t have a member who purchased a Commander Compendium. And for those who are already commanders, you’ll get additional functionality. But this first release won’t include everything we’d like to provide. For example, we’re going to follow up in a later release by adding markers for marking locations in the world and creatures/characters. We’re also looking into adding additional features like displaying boon and condition information in the UI.

As we get closer to future releases, we’ll be sure to provide information on the new functionality we’re adding. We think the Enhanced Squad UI is going to be a great addition to the Guild Wars 2 experience.

Thanks again for your help in making it the best it can be!

Ok but what about health bars under players? This is more important than some boons.

add damage meters to squads!

I don’t see why they can’t just make it a party UI that can have more than 5 people. That’s what I was expecting initially, when I saw it was a huge chunky box like thing, was really disappointed.

How about add boons and conditions to pet UI. Surely you can see why rangers would need it.

will raids still be available day 1?

No to damage meters. That was a toxic item in wow that inspired elitism. We don’t want that here.

I’d be ok with a personal DPS meter as long as it’s private.

Damage meters are part of the TOXIC WoW culture that I’ll be happy to never see again.

So, no.

please no to damage meters. As other have said that thing is toxic.

Xbon.9086:

will raids still be available day 1?

Raids were never scheduled to be available on Day 1. They will be released some weeks after launch.

Good luck.

What about LFG+10-man squad?
We need ability to list raid squad inside lfg tool, without creating parties in the squad.

The hypocrisy is incredible. People mostly associate the toxic players (sometimes mix them up with ambitioned players that want to play with the like minded and cry “toxic elitist” if they dont want to carry slackers) in WoW with damage meters and pretend that everything is fine here in the oh so better GW2.
Matter of fact is, toxic players exist everywhere, GW2 is no exception, the toxicity is already there in the current system and has always existed, it is not created by damage meters or the like. The difference here is that ppl get kicked or flamed because of vague, nonsensical reasons and prejudice (profession, AP, “ping gear”, uplevel) with no means to prove their worth. Whole professions are just excluded mostly based on random assumptions – try to find a high fractal group while not playing within the 1guard – 1war – 2ele – 1thief meta, because someone somwhere wrote that this is the best. Having actual numbers relevant for GW2 (not just damage; healing, boon uptime/assisted dmg, #downed, interrupts, dmg prevention by dodge/reflection etc.) would not only allow for fair comparisons and fact checking (even if it is only for yourself) but also make glaring issuses in class balance obvious as soon as they arise.

Adding those meaningful statistics to the new UI would go a long way with practically no downside for anyone with honest intentions.

Great information to know.
Also no, damage meters would not be in any way helpful to the game as a whole.

Can people please stop with this DPS meter kitten. No it won’t “further organize groups” or “help you find errors” those are blatant lies. You find errors by doing the content knowing how much DPS person y is doing isn’t going to magically stop person y from triggering a party wipe (that may most likely be completely independent of his DPS output).

I’ve yet to play an MMO where such a feature needed to exist, why would you suggest GW2 of all of them to encourage an annoyingly seperative elitist ui addition?

Will we still be able to see Boons & Conditions on grp memebers ? that was disabled during the BWE when a squad/radi was created. And this is a must of the entire UI is void

the raid ui being late, i don’t mind since raids are later itself, but why does the general ui have to be delayed? I know it’s probally a technical thing, but playing together at HoT launch would be so much easier with the new ui then with party’s

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

Kill.3458:

Can people please stop with this DPS meter kitten. No it won’t “further organize groups” or “help you find errors” those are blatant lies. You find errors by doing the content knowing how much DPS person y is doing isn’t going to magically stop person y from triggering a party wipe (that may most likely be completely independent of his DPS output).

I’ve yet to play an MMO where such a feature needed to exist, why would you suggest GW2 of all of them to encourage an annoyingly seperative elitist ui addition?

I only took into account the DPS portion of the party. Thus the statement in your parenthesis is irrelevant since others roles weren’t taken into account, willingly, because of the example focus. A skill that does 100 damage and one that does 90 damage under perfect circumstances (boons, weaknesses etc) WILL make the difference between a wipe or not if you have 1 second left on the clock and could only use one skill while the boss has 100 HP left.

If there is a certain build ran and it fails to provide the necessary DPS, the meter would easily identify the differences in choosing another utility, another trait with X bonus etc, all in a matter of seconds and automatically. No more need of spreadsheets after X number of rotations with 25 might, without might, with frost spirit, before or after first illusion rotation etc etc. No more gaps in calculation in a stable form the mesmer DPS for the group for example. It’s way too obvious, so much work and time saved! The tool is an automatic system that you can use on the go to perfect the party composition for a X encounter without the need of heavy work, saving time and the nerves of people by eliminating the need of days of work in spreadsheets and ground testing under X amount of situations. So on and so forth.

Please, stop using emotions to push your hypocrite agenda. From a technical POV the addition of such a tool will add numerous benefits to the game. Numbers do not lie. From an emotional POV I do not care one bit since your feelings of triggering and oppression are irrelevant to me.

My support was only from the technical POV and your reply came from an emotional outburst without any logical argument. The only argument against this tool is emotional outbursts from certain persons who cannot understand the concept that no one is perfect. Pointing them these possible errors and mistakes they might make in an enounter = instant elitism. Typical westerner ideology. But of course we are the elitists and the doom bringers while you are a tolerant and understanding member of the community.

God speed my blue Sanic, God speed!

Well I’ll be, I’m sorry I’m not a hardcore raider who requires spreadsheet tables to determine the absolute efficiency of my run. I’ve done plenty of raids in my past and such “issues” as you seem to assert in your “logical” argument were absolute non issues. If DPS output isn’t enough, it’s should be each raid members responsibility to communicate the issue, if Vale Guardian is any example, it shows people are perfectly capable okittennowledging errors and identifying issues regarding the dispersion of DPS in a party without such a tool.

Without a doubt, given the human proclivity to abuse and take advantage of resources alloted to us, it wouldn’t be long before your clever solution devolved into an out burst of “your DPS is slightly behind everyone else’s by 5%(given the ascended boost), clearly you aren’t ready for this” kicked from squad. Now I do know their are those who would gladly responsibly use the device but I doubt you’ll see much of those people outside of organized raiding groups/guilds. Your solution rewards the few and may very well intoxicate the many given the power it alots people. ANet wanted a connected community not a further divided one.

I don’t know what is your approach to the following but I think you may consider this:

As it was showed the target in the squad made everyone inside see it. This means 50 people will see same target and all the AoE will prioritize the target (I mean, you put necro wells where the cap is 5 people per pulse, then the target if above the well will take damage in every pulse). This, in terms of WvW means 50 people will focus one guy, taht could be enemy commander and this guy will suffer from all skills, being them single or multiple target.

Even though if things change, if target starts to be bounded only for the subgroup, the fact that massive subgroups are allowed will mean the same, having all people in same subgroup will have the same effect as before.

Commander focus is a problem already, with current 5 people parties and allowing much more people see same tag (and by so prioritizing damage on target on non single target enemies) will make the problem even bigger

Does this mean raids will be a month after release or is it still a two week delay?

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

@Kill.3458
I do not believe the “negative” impact will be as outrageous as it is presented due to the fact that raids are not meant to be PUGed. You can do it, but it is not recommended due to the lack of communications (I doubt you can make 9 randoms get in a TS server – and if you tell me there is little to no difference is using or not a Voice module I will assume you are trolling). I doubt a wing can be speed run in 10 minutes and no matter how casual or hardcore you are, no one wants to spend 3+hrs in there.

This means the priority are guilds and friends. In that set-up mistakes can be set aside, everyone more or less knows each other etc. It is true that some people may use it in a negative way, but, objectively speaking, the goods are way more prominent than the bads.

As I said, the raids themselves were presented with the recommendation of them being done in guilds and with friends as opposed to PUGs. You do not need to be some sort of ultra mega extra hardcore raider to use spreadsheets btw. I, for example wanted to know what spike rotation is the best for my mesmer due to the illusion factor. I had so many combinations to test, but went online and found out in a spreadsheet the answers with details. Was I in a speed run guild at that moment? I haven’t even done Arah P4 at that point.

TL;DR The content that would benefit from the meter aspect would be the one advertised as recommended with guild/friends as opposed to PUGs, thus, a big percent of this possible “elitism” being instantly neglected. Since this is the only reason to oppose this tool…there you go, problem solved.

PS: Just for my curiosity, why did you put logical between " . Weren’t they good, detailed examples? I can provide numbers very easily if you want. Just curious.

That’d be great, I put your logical in quotations because DPS meters have no true logical need, if they did they would be far more prevalent in other MMO mediums. They’re a perk, not a need.

As for what I bolded, to believe the majoroty to be good is naive. Rather all are are subjectively neutral until proven otherwise. Though I do agree that in an organized setting with a goal in mind, it’s more likely cooperation will supercede divisive selfish desire that gets the team no where.

Again as said before spreadsheets are great, not a need unless your party is desperately wishes to be as efficient as possible, if all the members are well equipped and knowledgeable of their class potentials solely from experience within the game you will be fine. Hence why I assumed it to be an aspect of more hardcore raiding culture (general curiosity is a different thing entirely).

White Hunter.3416:

What about LFG+10-man squad?
We need ability to list raid squad inside lfg tool, without creating parties in the squad.

From what we know, there will be no such possibility. And since you can’t be in a raid squad and in a party at the same time, there will be no party lfg bypass for that lack.

Kill.3458:

Though I do agree that in an organized setting with a goal in mind, it’s more likely cooperation will supercede divisive selfish desire that gets the team no where.

You forget you are talking about the raiders here. People that mostly seem to think thet the main point of raiding lies in proving to others how they are inferior to you. Why do you think this mentality will suddenly reverse itself when applied to your squad members?

I think this is pretty funny. There are really guys, assuming very few girls are willing to do such, that like to make a raid their second or even first job. As long as my dps is fine, nobody cares if I don´t give any boons or have the movement abilities of a brick shelf with my colleagues having to bust me out of this or that. Glorious, indeed.^^

I find it funny that the only toxic players in this thread are the ones opposed to dps meters… maybe the reason they were a problem for you in other games is because of you… me thinks it is time for you to look in the mirror to find the source of the toxicity.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I find it funny that the only toxic players in this thread are the ones opposed to dps meters… maybe the reason they were a problem for you in other games is because of you… me thinks it is time for you to look in the mirror to find the source of the toxicity.

So you dont consider this toxic? -

Celeras.4980:

Newsflash to the baddies: there are already third party damage meters. We know if you suck. Adding it to the game by default in the squad UI would be fantastic, because then at least YOU could also know that you suck.

And there are tons of posts about meters. Can we please keep this one about the cool new ui were getting?

What I would like to see, as someone that is looking forward to healing in GW2 (Druid Hype) is health bars over the heads of the members of my squad group.

This is necessary to that the healer will know where to position themselves, unless you’re going back to the stacking and spamming mechanic in which case we don’t need this.

I know that you can see, them now, but its hard to see them now, they blend in really well. I like that the UI fades into the background in GW2, but for some things it just needs to pop out.

Astralporing.1957:

White Hunter.3416:

What about LFG+10-man squad?
We need ability to list raid squad inside lfg tool, without creating parties in the squad.

From what we know, there will be no such possibility. And since you can’t be in a raid squad and in a party at the same time, there will be no party lfg bypass for that lack.

WAT? Raids only designed for guilds with 10+ member who can hadle them? For whon them designed in that cause? I believe you info is wrong, cause at BWE3 we was able to create party for raids. If not, it is a really crap.

main “problem” we had in guild missions, was mob targeting.
should be subgroup wise, and not squad wise (unless it was commander targeting).
we were doing skritt defense, and we were 1 squad with 3 subgroups, each one defending one lane.

ok, it’s a simple guild mission, but if in raids we’ll have 3 different mobs, it would be better for each sub-group to target its own mob.

Not interested in the debate, just letting ArenaNet know here is another player opposed to DPS meters.

A built in DPS meter would be nice

A dps meter is not needed. It provides no real benefit. It’s beyond pointless except as an excuse to kick players that aren’t outputting the damage someone thinks they should be. Further, it would then devolve into ‘No, your class outputs the least amount of direct damage so you cannot come’. We already have things like this, there is no need for Anet to actively encourage this.

IF they were to add a personal meter, that too could be used negatively, albeit it would be a bit cumbersome to do so. This is provided it wouldn’t be added to the API.

edit:
With how GW2 combat is, a dps meter wouldn’t tell you what is actually going on.
You may have a player, that while doing ok damage, is outputting less than everyone else. If they were kicked because of this, could very well end up with 4 others doing less damage because of the loss of that players buffs/traits, and the person replacing would also be missing out on those buffs.
What would the actual benefit to having a meter like that be?

about Raid release: Raids cannot function without the enhanced Squadui. They never said Raids would be turned on 2 weeks after HoT release. They stated it would be a little after. A month would still be a few weeks after release, anyways.

Gaile Gray.6029:

As a result, we’ve decided to hold off on releasing the first version of the new UI until a few weeks after the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™. This will give us a little more time to properly address the issues that were encountered as well as add some needed polish.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

I really hated the test for one, and only one, reason. I could not pop up a tag while being in a party. This is incredibly useful at times, for both the commander and later the mentor tags. I do not need a squad while in a party, all I need is the ability to give directional information to people not in the party (“the banner is near the hill at the red commander tag”).

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

A dps meter is not needed. It provides no real benefit. It’s beyond pointless except as an excuse to kick players that aren’t outputting the damage someone thinks they should be. Further, it would then devolve into ‘No, your class outputs the least amount of direct damage so you cannot come’. We already have things like this, there is no need for Anet to actively encourage this.

Kill.3458:

Without a doubt, given the human proclivity to abuse and take advantage of resources alloted to us, it wouldn’t be long before your clever solution devolved into an out burst of “your DPS is slightly behind everyone else’s by 5%(given the ascended boost), clearly you aren’t ready for this” kicked from squad. Now I do know their are those who would gladly responsibly use the device but I doubt you’ll see much of those people outside of organized raiding groups/guilds. Your solution rewards the few and may very well intoxicate the many given the power it alots people. ANet wanted a connected community not a further divided one.

I see those arguments all the time. Why don’t you realzie that this behavior is not new and would certainly not be created by damage meters?
Ppl already get kicked due to AP, weapon set, profession and other bs metrics. There are and will be 3rd party tools that provide more reliable metrics (like gw efficiency) and those will be used by ambitioned players to improve their party/raid and toxic players as a mean to flame, harass and kick. This has already started and you won’t stop it.

Built in metrics (i refrain from DPS meters since there is more info about the raid i am interested in, not just DPS) would not change a thing about toxicity. It would just provide a better tool for everybody to use. I’d rather get my info from an ingame source than to trust a 3rd party regarding correctness and available information. But as long as the former is not available, I will fall back to the latter option, as will every other player that enjoys optimization and strives on personal mastery.

Amenaza.8346:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

A dps meter is not needed. It provides no real benefit. It’s beyond pointless except as an excuse to kick players that aren’t outputting the damage someone thinks they should be. Further, it would then devolve into ‘No, your class outputs the least amount of direct damage so you cannot come’. We already have things like this, there is no need for Anet to actively encourage this.

Kill.3458:

Without a doubt, given the human proclivity to abuse and take advantage of resources alloted to us, it wouldn’t be long before your clever solution devolved into an out burst of “your DPS is slightly behind everyone else’s by 5%(given the ascended boost), clearly you aren’t ready for this” kicked from squad. Now I do know their are those who would gladly responsibly use the device but I doubt you’ll see much of those people outside of organized raiding groups/guilds. Your solution rewards the few and may very well intoxicate the many given the power it alots people. ANet wanted a connected community not a further divided one.

I see those arguments all the time. Why don’t you realzie that this behavior is not new and would certainly not be created by damage meters?
Ppl already get kicked due to AP, weapon set, profession and other bs metrics. There are and will be 3rd party tools that provide more reliable metrics (like gw efficiency) and those will be used by ambitioned players to improve their party/raid and toxic players as a mean to flame, harass and kick. This has already started and you won’t stop it.

Built in metrics (i refrain from DPS meters since there is more info about the raid i am interested in, not just DPS) would not change a thing about toxicity. It would just provide a better tool for everybody to use. I’d rather get my info from an ingame source than to trust a 3rd party regarding correctness and available information. But as long as the former is not available, I will fall back to the latter option, as will every other player that enjoys optimization and strives on personal mastery.

Missed a lot I see. Besides, I clearly stated there already was elitism, but that is no reason to actively support it. Not having a meter isn’t going to stop it, but why should Anet put in something that would have at best a small benefit to a very few, and instead allow widespread abuse.

Additionally, those things already used to enforce elitism are pretty much used before you even start (and in at least some of those cases it isn’t even to be necessarily ‘elitist’) but a meter like that would be used during as such. Could most certainly see people kicking others because they weren’t doing what one person considered ‘enough damage’ at the first boss and instead of continuing, just replacing them.

It is not needed at all for raids or anything else. At best, a personal ‘meter’ that only you can see is the farthest they should go down that road, which itself isn’t going to show everything that everyone wants. That itself comes with issues, but would fulfill that ‘personal mastery’ and optimization (still effectively meaningless as it is highly dependent on other players, the boons you are given, whether or not the boss has 25 stacks of vuln, whether or not you have conditions affecting you, slowing/preventing your actions, or slowing/preventing your movement. Ignoring all of that, already have a combat log that shows your damage output)

Using a 3rd party application is not only unsupported by Anet, it’s risky and depending on what it actually does, could cost you your account.
edit: Yes I know that GW2efficiency uses the api, which shows your build, armor, etc., based on permission given to the apikey, but does not show your damage, etc. Nor should it (api doesn’t do this).

Damage meters are what ruin games and only encourage elitism. Please never add this to GW2. It is bad enough some people do not want certain classes in certain dungeons… but to give them even more excuses to kick out anyone else just because we want to play how we want to play and not how they want us to? It will ruin the community. It is just as bad as the gear-score concept we see in other MMO’s.

On a brighter note, thanks ANet for taking our opinions into a reality by adding the conditions/boons. As those are an essential part of the game, it is indeed important we see them.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

(still effectively meaningless as it is highly dependent on other players, the boons you are given, whether or not the boss has 25 stacks of vuln, whether or not you have conditions affecting you, slowing/preventing your actions, or slowing/preventing your movement. Ignoring all of that, already have a combat log that shows your damage output)

Well exactly that is my point. People will get their data if they want to – anet could make sure that it is meaningful and correct data. All this (boon/condition etc.) can be aggregated correctly in the game so there is no need to rely on outside derivation.
You can’t “not support elitism”, you can only either support 3rd party by making no features available ingame or provide clear data for your players directly.

No, it is not “less elitism” at the moment and ppl already get replaced by those types during the run. Just right now it is “Not enough damage on this boss. Ranger reroll or kick” instead of “Warrior was obv only spamming 1 and not using any skills. Contribute or kick”.

Gaile Gray.6029

As a result, we’ve decided to hold off on releasing the first version of the new UI until a few weeks after the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™.

Dang I was hoping that you could just make it like a beta toggle or setting at launch so that us who liked using it in the beta could use it in launch. but i can kind of see where this might be beneficial, it still doesn’t rule out the fact that some people might just like to use it anyways for WvW or regular PVE or such. just seems a shame that we will not get to see it till raids by the way you put it. like who can say they would not like to lead a 50 player or so World boss train or for clearing out a guild hall or the like ? its just a suggestion tho

Pet UI please (boons/conditions and timers).

@Amenaza Considering the damage I put out on ranger in dungeons, I’d know where the problem wasn’t. Then again, you show precisely why I wouldn’t pug on ranger. Both situations are an issue, though, as saying it like that is part of the overall problem. It forces them on the defensive, and would still be missing data. Why were they only auto-attacking? Perhaps the reason was a misguided attempt to use PS optimally?

Yes I get the reason for the example, but it inadvertently illustrates part of a bigger problem. A meter with squadui is unnecessary at best, and potentially a broken crutch.

There is no reason to see the damage others are doing, nor would it even be accurate as you would need to see and know what the player themselves know just to properly analyze the data. Would it count the damage against other mobs that are with the boss? If so, more AoE type classes/builds will appear to be doing more damage against the boss than they really are, unless it’s also supposed to show the damage against each creature, which then just gets plain ridiculous. What about if they ended up with getting cc’d often and kept being stunned, for instance, because someone else didn’t keep stability on them and the class has little access to it’s own? Their damage would appear to be miniscule through little fault of their own.

Would the additional data desired also show what skills they use? What weapons they use? When they used them? If someone wants that much information out of me, to be blunt, I’d tell them where they could put it. At some point, some have to remember that they are playing a game with other people, not some sort of AI that needs a babysitter like a micromanaged GW1 hero (which actually doing so was normally sub-par at best).

@petui involving squads would clutter far too much, and is unnecessary. For rangers themselves, that suggestion belongs elsewhere (and is elsewhere countless times).

@Anet, Quite a few in the game do not want a damage meter. If one is desired, or seen as beneficial for some reason, then a personal only would be an acceptable compromise although in actuality it would still suffer from many drawbacks, or, if it is desired in some form, this needs to be a separate moderated Dev discussion with players elsewhere. There are a myriad of reasons against it, it is not just an argument or fear over ‘it would increase elitism or troll-ing of others’ but those too are very real concerns, especially with how it was seen in other games, and they are not invalid just because some want it to be in the game.

Additionally, I’d expect that Gaile intended to lock this thread as an informative post only, but from what I’ve seen, the official threads for feedback on the squadui saw little activity, and there is the additional issue that ‘raidui’ and ‘wvw squadui’ are one and the same yet fulfill very different roles.