Guild Wars 2

sorudo.9054:

firefall doesn’t even have a glider endurance bar yet it works perfectly, i see no reason to add an endurance bar except to limit the players reaching further then intended.
then again, if they fear that, don’t add gliders in the first place.

People will always find creative uses of the glider, even with an endurance bar, and I don’t think ANet would be opposed to it. Breaking out of maps isn’t intended, but people do it and get away with it.

Lil Puppy.5216:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/reimagining-progression-the-mastery-system/
—Second paragraph under the last image.

When you train the Gliding Mastery, however, you’ll have the option to soar freely through the treetops, escape the dangers that await you on the jungle floor, use the air to your advantage in combat against certain foes, and save yourself from accidental death by slipping.

Anyway, this is the same thing as AION has, you can only use it in certain locations and for only a certain amount of time depending on your training. I was disappointed when I read that it would only be available for HoT and that it was the same thing as AION did.

Anyway, for 2 years of work, this better be one hell of a nice zone and not just a living story update with feature pack.

You’re incorporating 2 separate concepts, notice the comma. The aerial advantage comes from there being multiple parts of the map. Airships exist and give you cover, and other players can snipe for you. It has nothing to do with the gliders.

I’ve been playing Saints Row: Gat out of Hell recently.

Flying in that game is so fun that I could just do that alone for extended periods of time. Once you get used to the controls, It works so smoothly that I wish flying in any other game with personal flight worked like that.

There was endurance, but you can unlock an upgrade that removes endurance consumption while flying. But you don’t get it right away.

In GW2, something similar will likely be done with masteries. But they can’t make gliding permanent. Because they need to have limits on where you can go and what you can reach.

I still think you have all wrong and its the dodge meter called wait for it: “ENDURANCE”
for aerial dodging the flying foes they will be adding. You can only glide/fly for so long as you descend to earth, so you’ll probably not need any gauge or anything for flight time as the trailers shown players going down rather quickly but not as fast as falling to your death normally.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I still think you have all wrong and its the dodge meter called wait for it: “ENDURANCE”
for aerial dodging the flying foes they will be adding. You can only glide/fly for so long as you descend to earth, so you’ll probably not need any gauge or anything for flight time as the trailers shown players going down rather quickly but not as fast as falling to your death normally.

I think you’re right in this Yumiko

I cheered when gliding was introduced. I groaned when I read about the attached endurance meter. Flying endurance is not fun. It never has been.

Just your opinion. Not a fact. So please dont say that as if it is one.

Flying is suppose to be fun. The sights to behold, the exhilaration of movement in aerial content can be amazing. But, flying endurance turns this into a dreaded time limit. Players will be watching the endurance meters not the beauty of the zone. Floating on air can be a breathtaking experience but this is destroyed when an outdated gaming mechanic plummets you to your doom for daring to enjoy the gaming content a bit too long.

I dont think some little endurance meter needs to be watched all the time. Just like i have to watch my dodge meter all the time to know how much endurance i have for dodging.
Also, you have no idea how exactly the Gliding is going to be implemented, how long your endurance will last. Maybe it’s really limiting, but maybe you wont even notice while moving normally around the map and it’s really just there to prevent some abuses.

This is similar to underwater areas in many other MMOs and I fear most players will quickly learn to avoid such content. Flying endurance is simply not fun.

No, this is not similar. Underwater areas are a place where you fight and be around for a longer period of time. The Gliding in Heart of Thorns is really just supposed to be a way to glide from point A to B.

I have no idea how exactly this will work out, but generally, as a game mechanic, i dont have a problem with flying endurance.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I still think you have all wrong and its the dodge meter called wait for it: “ENDURANCE”
for aerial dodging the flying foes they will be adding. You can only glide/fly for so long as you descend to earth, so you’ll probably not need any gauge or anything for flight time as the trailers shown players going down rather quickly but not as fast as falling to your death normally.

Except that hang gliding isn’t just downward motion, you can fly upward by orienting the glider in just the right way and taking advantage of wind currents – which is a feature that should be available with the Mastery.

Rashy.4165:

sorudo.9054:

firefall doesn’t even have a glider endurance bar yet it works perfectly, i see no reason to add an endurance bar except to limit the players reaching further then intended.
then again, if they fear that, don’t add gliders in the first place.

People will always find creative uses of the glider, even with an endurance bar, and I don’t think ANet would be opposed to it. Breaking out of maps isn’t intended, but people do it and get away with it.

my point exactly, ppl will always find a way so adding such a bar has no use.

you have to realize that you can’t really fly, you go down slowly and never go up, all it does is enable players to glide down further without falling to your death.

Wonder if GW2 will have flight improvement gear. Check out 4 tiers of armor for flight time, and another 4 tiers for speed improvement, plus jewelry, flight accessories, food, potion, scrolls, etc. as had been done in Aion.

We may never get another tier of armor above Ascended, but will we end up needing to switch ascended armor sets to fly and then to do combat?

http://gameguide.na.aiononline.com/aion/Improving+Flight

Hope devs will let us know prior to launch.

I don’t want to play a flight simulator.

sorudo.9054:

Rashy.4165:

sorudo.9054:

firefall doesn’t even have a glider endurance bar yet it works perfectly, i see no reason to add an endurance bar except to limit the players reaching further then intended.
then again, if they fear that, don’t add gliders in the first place.

People will always find creative uses of the glider, even with an endurance bar, and I don’t think ANet would be opposed to it. Breaking out of maps isn’t intended, but people do it and get away with it.

my point exactly, ppl will always find a way so adding such a bar has no use.

you have to realize that you can’t really fly, you go down slowly and never go up, all it does is enable players to glide down further without falling to your death.

Actually …

Gliding has many forms. Straight downward gliding assumes certain conditions and the type of glider used. You CAN actually “glide” upward if you can generate enough Lift to overcome your weight, and you do so by making use of air currents (if you’re gliding in a windy area, it’s entirely possible). This also has a fair bit to do with glider design, lift-to-drag ratios, etc, the basics of which can be simulated in a game. HoT will have wind currents as parts of its mastery, and DOES showcase flying upwards (ArenaNet’s trailers tend to be very similar to in-game footage, the only real difference is that some skills are one-shots whereas in game, it takes a lot more than one hit). If you have a powered glider which can produce a certain amount of thrust, then it can definitely fly upwards.

The gliding in Aion was straight downwards, but there were some clever tricks people used to gain a bit of height. Not a lot, but enough to glide slightly further.

ammayhem.5962:

I don’t want to play a flight simulator.

Good thing that’s 100% not what this is going to be?

Also, why don’t you want to do that?

Rashy.4165:

sorudo.9054:

Rashy.4165:

sorudo.9054:

firefall doesn’t even have a glider endurance bar yet it works perfectly, i see no reason to add an endurance bar except to limit the players reaching further then intended.
then again, if they fear that, don’t add gliders in the first place.

People will always find creative uses of the glider, even with an endurance bar, and I don’t think ANet would be opposed to it. Breaking out of maps isn’t intended, but people do it and get away with it.

my point exactly, ppl will always find a way so adding such a bar has no use.

you have to realize that you can’t really fly, you go down slowly and never go up, all it does is enable players to glide down further without falling to your death.

Actually …

Gliding has many forms. Straight downward gliding assumes certain conditions and the type of glider used. You CAN actually “glide” upward if you can generate enough Lift to overcome your weight, and you do so by making use of air currents (if you’re gliding in a windy area, it’s entirely possible). This also has a fair bit to do with glider design, lift-to-drag ratios, etc, the basics of which can be simulated in a game. HoT will have wind currents as parts of its mastery, and DOES showcase flying upwards (ArenaNet’s trailers tend to be very similar to in-game footage, the only real difference is that some skills are one-shots whereas in game, it takes a lot more than one hit). If you have a powered glider which can produce a certain amount of thrust, then it can definitely fly upwards.

The gliding in Aion was straight downwards, but there were some clever tricks people used to gain a bit of height. Not a lot, but enough to glide slightly further.

if gliding works like firefall then you can’t get up, only down.
you are able to angle the gliding to a point that you can fly longer but when you go to high the game simply sends you straight down again, sort of like a punishment system when you try it anyway. (well, not straight down but in an eagle diving angle)

sorudo.9054:

if gliding works like firefall then you can’t get up, only down.
you are able to angle the gliding to a point that you can fly longer but when you go to high the game simply sends you straight down again, sort of like a punishment system when you try it anyway. (well, not straight down but in an eagle diving angle)

Well, obviously the game will restrict how high you can go, but the point I’m trying to make is, you CAN fly up with a hang-glider.

As for whether or not it will resemble Aion, Firefall, or any other game with flight/gliding, that remains to be seen.

ANet mentioned wind currents in the Masteries blog post. It won’t be a straight downward glide.

god, i hope they demonstrate gliding today so this stupid discussion can die :P

You don’t “fly”. You glide. Downwards.

You won’t use gliding for seeing the sights or exploring. It’s to get from A to B without dying.

This in here – mastery system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mccfM1lk3aY

Mental Paradox.3845:

You don’t “fly”. You glide. Downwards.

You won’t use gliding for seeing the sights or exploring. It’s to get from A to B without dying.

http://www.scottishglidingcentre.co.uk/lift.htm

As you continue to explore the jungle, you’ll have the option to further develop your gliding skills by advancing this Mastery. Fly longer, jump higher, take advantage of strong wind currents, and launch yourself into the air with greater force—make your glider work harder for you, and use it to explore the Heart of Maguuma to its fullest.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/reimagining-progression-the-mastery-system/

Ronah Lynda.2496:

This in here – mastery system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mccfM1lk3aY

That is you assuming. We have no actual details from Anet themselves.

Well, the PoI showcased a fair amount of basic gliding, and mentioned updrafts, which will be available at the PAX East demos.

The endurance they showcased lasted about 10 seconds. These are after some Mastery abilities were unlocked (such as longer endurance, maybe). Also to note: as you fall after endurance runs out, you regenerate endurance, allowing you to pop your glider again as you fall.

Rashy.4165:

Well, the PoI showcased a fair amount of basic gliding, and mentioned updrafts, which will be available at the PAX East demos.

The endurance they showcased lasted about 10 seconds. These are after some Mastery abilities were unlocked (such as longer endurance, maybe). Also to note: as you fall after endurance runs out, you regenerate endurance, allowing you to pop your glider again as you fall.

seen that before, got enough endurance but not until i die falling, the reason why endurance with gliders are a horrible idea.

sorudo.9054:

Rashy.4165:

Well, the PoI showcased a fair amount of basic gliding, and mentioned updrafts, which will be available at the PAX East demos.

The endurance they showcased lasted about 10 seconds. These are after some Mastery abilities were unlocked (such as longer endurance, maybe). Also to note: as you fall after endurance runs out, you regenerate endurance, allowing you to pop your glider again as you fall.

seen that before, got enough endurance but not until i die falling, the reason why endurance with gliders are a horrible idea.

Mistakes happen, you die because of it. Gives you an opportunity to learn how to do it properly without dying, which comes with time and practice. The verticality in HoT should be high enough that should be able to regen enough endurance (before dying) to keep going a bit further.

The PoI showed enough endurance regen in 2-3 seconds to re-pop the glider long before dying. The deaths that occurred during the stream were due to not being absolutely amazing at using the glider.

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

Victory.2879:

As long as it doesn’t mean HoT is one big JP (which it sounds more and more like it is….)…

This is my biggest fear for HoT. I hate jumping puzzles and the new maps have the potential to be nothing but one jp after another. I probably will not buy this expansion if the new maps only cater to people who like jumping.

tigirius.9014:

Actually it’s not fun or necessary and there are precedents showing changes made to the gliding mechanic in other titles out there to eliminate this bar. There are several from Archeage to Aion to WoW none of them use this method anymore because of the problems that come along with having a limited amount of time being airborn. They do however have dismount mechanics in which someone who is hit by an attack takes them out of that gliding mode so there is that to consider if they really wanted to limit it during combat or PVP that would be acceptable but not allowing people the ability to glide endlessly while airborn just makes it less realistic because look at real life here, if you get on a hang glider and you get airborn it doesn’t suddenly retract because some invisible meter that is giving you a limited time use and make you fall to your death. Also, hang glider riders always have safety measures irl now like parachutes if something goes wrong they can open one to catch their fall.

If they implement meters they need to at the very least provide straight down parachutes to prevent deathgliding. It’s only sensible.

Archeage has a time limit on flying – 3 mins, as I recall – so that inclusion in your comment is flawed. I was pretty sure Aion also had a timer, though I didn’t play it so I may be mistaken. WoD would like a word with you about flying in WoW content.

Aion had fun gliding but it had no maps where gliding was featured because they focused on flying. Gliding in that game was a fun bonus. It shared the same time limit as flying unless that was changed since it went f2p.

I can’t see why others view endurance as a bad thing. In Aion I liked to push my gliding to the extrem and glide as far as I could limited by the timer and the often very flat map design (more so by the flat maps) . If the maps in Maguma support something like this and add rewards I’m exicted for it. Gliding Puzzles FTW.

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

Underwater endurance didn’t work for a different reason – underwater combat relied on staying down there a lot longer, and there were a lot of places where it was impossible to resurface for air. Gliding, on the other hand, won’t have that problem unless they introduce Aerial combat, against creatures that remain in the air and require flying around them to kill (which I don’t see happening, seeing as they need to redo underwater combat for it to become on par with GW2’s land combat).

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

you have a really poor grasp of the design of both underwater mechanics and gliding if you really think the two are even remotely comparable.

I like endurance bar… while I’m leveling my gliding. I’d hate to max out my gliding mastery and still be stuck with an endurance bar… well maybe if it’s an endurance bar so big I in essence never run out… so practically the same as not having one

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

I agree 100%. I’d rather see aerial combat with unlimited duration flights. Graphically it can be interesting seeing multiple fire elementals at various altitudes, and being able to fly in 3D in combat, just like underwater.

The ultimate fantasy for players in a flight game is to be like Superman. Who ever heard of Superman having endurance bar?

The gliding/flying in HoT appears to be another form of “jumping puzzle” in the form of “gliding puzzle”. It can get old fast when people need to go to champion fights.

The current implementation of Gliding doesn’t really support aerial combat (even with updrafts), and I don’t think that was in mind when they designed it. You don’t introduce another form of 3D combat when your current one isn’t done to its fullest potential. Underwater combat could have been so much more, but it’s severely lacking right now.

At this moment I feel it is too late for this expansion to change.

Unfortunately, this can kill another segment of the player base, who will no longer be here when aerial combat may be the future. Especially if they need to work through gliding puzzles in the HoT expansion to get there.

BlueOcean.5380:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

I agree 100%. I’d rather see aerial combat with unlimited duration flights. Graphically it can be interesting seeing multiple fire elementals at various altitudes, and being able to fly in 3D in combat, just like underwater.

The ultimate fantasy for players in a flight game is to be like Superman. Who ever heard of Superman having endurance bar?

The gliding/flying in HoT appears to be another form of “jumping puzzle” in the form of “gliding puzzle”. It can get old fast when people need to go to champion fights.

yeah, you’re playing the wrong game. this isn’t a superman simulator, and gliding isn’t meant to be a combat tool (or a flying tool for that matter).

see, the problem is that people “would rather see” things that make no sense in GW2. ANet was like “wouldn’t it be cool if we could glide around?”, and people have reacted with “i never thought of that! yeah, i’d love to glide in GW2! you know what i’d love more? if you redid the whole game from scratch to enable 3D movement and aerial combat so i can live my medieval fantasy superman dream in an MMO without playing Aion!”.

i mean, where the hell did you even come from with that idea? were you playing GW2 for the past few years, annoyed that you couldn’t just fly everywhere and punch birds in mid air? what part of GW2 even hinted at air combat being the future? even gliding came so out of the left field it caught everyone by surprise, and the only thing it’ll be used for is moving from A to B, and yet people are freaking out as if they were betrayed because they can’t divebomb dragons.

BlueOcean.5380:

At this moment I feel it is too late for this expansion to change.

Unfortunately, this can kill another segment of the player base, who will no longer be here when aerial combat may be the future. Especially if they need to work through gliding puzzles in the HoT expansion to get there.

i also love the “hey ANet, listen to me, i’m not saying this for my own interest’s sake, i’m thinking about the best interests of the game and the company! PLAYERS WILL LEAVE IF YOU DON’T DO WHAT I SAY!” approach. it’s such a silly attempt at guilt tripping the company into siding with you. yeah, the nonexistent “bought GW2 because i like ace combat” player base will die. such a shame.

BrunoBRS.5178:

BlueOcean.5380:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

I agree 100%. I’d rather see aerial combat with unlimited duration flights. Graphically it can be interesting seeing multiple fire elementals at various altitudes, and being able to fly in 3D in combat, just like underwater.

The ultimate fantasy for players in a flight game is to be like Superman. Who ever heard of Superman having endurance bar?

The gliding/flying in HoT appears to be another form of “jumping puzzle” in the form of “gliding puzzle”. It can get old fast when people need to go to champion fights.

yeah, you’re playing the wrong game. this isn’t a superman simulator, and gliding isn’t meant to be a combat tool (or a flying tool for that matter).

see, the problem is that people “would rather see” things that make no sense in GW2. ANet was like “wouldn’t it be cool if we could glide around?”, and people have reacted with “i never thought of that! yeah, i’d love to glide in GW2! you know what i’d love more? if you redid the whole game from scratch to enable 3D movement and aerial combat so i can live my medieval fantasy superman dream in an MMO without playing Aion!”.

i mean, where the hell did you even come from with that idea? were you playing GW2 for the past few years, annoyed that you couldn’t just fly everywhere and punch birds in mid air? what part of GW2 even hinted at air combat being the future? even gliding came so out of the left field it caught everyone by surprise, and the only thing it’ll be used for is moving from A to B, and yet people are freaking out as if they were betrayed because they can’t divebomb dragons.

BlueOcean.5380:

At this moment I feel it is too late for this expansion to change.

Unfortunately, this can kill another segment of the player base, who will no longer be here when aerial combat may be the future. Especially if they need to work through gliding puzzles in the HoT expansion to get there.

i also love the “hey ANet, listen to me, i’m not saying this for my own interest’s sake, i’m thinking about the best interests of the game and the company! PLAYERS WILL LEAVE IF YOU DON’T DO WHAT I SAY!” approach. it’s such a silly attempt at guilt tripping the company into siding with you. yeah, the nonexistent “bought GW2 because i like ace combat” player base will die. such a shame.

Wow, tirade mode. Actually I believe GW2’s intention is to support the arcade player base. Had written a nice post to you but decided to delete it because I didn’t feel like talking to someone like you. At this, I can see the type of player this game will be attracting, and frankly I’m happy to leave you to your dream. :p Have fun dude.

To Rashy and others in this thread: Of course I don’t mean to lump you in the same vein as the person above. Not all arcade crowd are like that. But I do feel there tend to be more. Hope you all have fun.

Raises hand

Um, guys, during one of the recent Points of Interest, the hosts got into a rather animated discussion about the gliding and updrafts. Describing that moment “when you’ve got a tiny bit of endurance left and then you hit an updraft” saving you from crashing out of the sky.

If that doesn’t indicate that updrafts will recharge your endurance meter for the glider….

I think you’ll find that with high enough mastery in the line, and sufficent skill to plan your routes to take advantage of updrafts, we’ll probably be able to glide some more than decent distances

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

you have a really poor grasp of the design of both underwater mechanics and gliding if you really think the two are even remotely comparable.

Enlighten me then oh Maestro da Vinci!

BilboBaggins.5620:

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

you have a really poor grasp of the design of both underwater mechanics and gliding if you really think the two are even remotely comparable.

Enlighten me then oh Maestro da Vinci!

as it’s been said several times in this thread by me and by others, underwater is fundamentally different from gliding. you see, going underwater isn’t something you do purely for locomotion. when you’re underwater, you’re exploring, doing hearts and events, fighting, etc. thus, forcing a player to go back to the surface halfway through a fight would be counter-intuitive.

meanwhile, gliding is purely a way of traversing. it’s a glorified jump pad. you use gliding from going from A to B. what the endurance bar does is limit what those “B’s” are. think of it like the zephyrite aspects: you can only go as far as the amount of charges you have left allow you to, but that’s ok, because the game was designed so that those charges are always enough to get everywhere you should be. similarly, you can (or will be able to, with enough mastery points) reach anywhere you should reach with a glider. you’ll never come short of a ledge when gliding if you’re meant to reach it and execute it well.

TL;DR: underwater endurance would stop you from doing what you’re meant to do, airborn endurance only stops you from doing what you’re not meant to do.

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

you have a really poor grasp of the design of both underwater mechanics and gliding if you really think the two are even remotely comparable.

Enlighten me then oh Maestro da Vinci!

as it’s been said several times in this thread by me and by others, underwater is fundamentally different from gliding. you see, going underwater isn’t something you do purely for locomotion. when you’re underwater, you’re exploring, doing hearts and events, fighting, etc. thus, forcing a player to go back to the surface halfway through a fight would be counter-intuitive.

meanwhile, gliding is purely a way of traversing. it’s a glorified jump pad. you use gliding from going from A to B. what the endurance bar does is limit what those “B’s” are. think of it like the zephyrite aspects: you can only go as far as the amount of charges you have left allow you to, but that’s ok, because the game was designed so that those charges are always enough to get everywhere you should be. similarly, you can (or will be able to, with enough mastery points) reach anywhere you should reach with a glider. you’ll never come short of a ledge when gliding if you’re meant to reach it and execute it well.

TL;DR: underwater endurance would stop you from doing what you’re meant to do, airborn endurance only stops you from doing what you’re not meant to do.

You’re missing the point, though.

People are disappointed that gliding is so limited. We were hoping it would be a freeform movement mode, much like water or land movement is. Instead it seems like it’s basically like Zelda fast travel, where you get a limited number of paths/landing points? That’s not nearly as much fun. Compared to the full-fledged movement options we already have, it’s disappointing that ANet chose to go with a limited movement ability for the expansion.

Gilosean.3805:

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

you have a really poor grasp of the design of both underwater mechanics and gliding if you really think the two are even remotely comparable.

Enlighten me then oh Maestro da Vinci!

as it’s been said several times in this thread by me and by others, underwater is fundamentally different from gliding. you see, going underwater isn’t something you do purely for locomotion. when you’re underwater, you’re exploring, doing hearts and events, fighting, etc. thus, forcing a player to go back to the surface halfway through a fight would be counter-intuitive.

meanwhile, gliding is purely a way of traversing. it’s a glorified jump pad. you use gliding from going from A to B. what the endurance bar does is limit what those “B’s” are. think of it like the zephyrite aspects: you can only go as far as the amount of charges you have left allow you to, but that’s ok, because the game was designed so that those charges are always enough to get everywhere you should be. similarly, you can (or will be able to, with enough mastery points) reach anywhere you should reach with a glider. you’ll never come short of a ledge when gliding if you’re meant to reach it and execute it well.

TL;DR: underwater endurance would stop you from doing what you’re meant to do, airborn endurance only stops you from doing what you’re not meant to do.

You’re missing the point, though.

People are disappointed that gliding is so limited. We were hoping it would be a freeform movement mode, much like water or land movement is. Instead it seems like it’s basically like Zelda fast travel, where you get a limited number of paths/landing points? That’s not nearly as much fun. Compared to the full-fledged movement options we already have, it’s disappointing that ANet chose to go with a limited movement ability for the expansion.

it’s a middle ground between the two. it’s a method of traversal that is inherently limited in that you can’t just fly over everything, but that doesn’t mean you can’t get creative with it.

really, the best way for everyone to get ready for gliding is to go play zelda wind waker. get yourself a deku leaf, and see how it works. it is exactly the same as gliding in GW2 will be (actually, GW2 gliding will be easier, because updrafts will regenerate your bar), and you’ll see that it’s far from being limited, boring, or any of the horrible adjectives being thrown at the feature.

for you poor souls that never played wind waker. for the record, he has the fully upgraded magic bar (wind waker’s “flying endurance” ). the starter one is about half that size.

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

you have a really poor grasp of the design of both underwater mechanics and gliding if you really think the two are even remotely comparable.

Enlighten me then oh Maestro da Vinci!

as it’s been said several times in this thread by me and by others, underwater is fundamentally different from gliding. you see, going underwater isn’t something you do purely for locomotion. when you’re underwater, you’re exploring, doing hearts and events, fighting, etc. thus, forcing a player to go back to the surface halfway through a fight would be counter-intuitive.

meanwhile, gliding is purely a way of traversing. it’s a glorified jump pad. you use gliding from going from A to B. what the endurance bar does is limit what those “B’s” are. think of it like the zephyrite aspects: you can only go as far as the amount of charges you have left allow you to, but that’s ok, because the game was designed so that those charges are always enough to get everywhere you should be. similarly, you can (or will be able to, with enough mastery points) reach anywhere you should reach with a glider. you’ll never come short of a ledge when gliding if you’re meant to reach it and execute it well.

TL;DR: underwater endurance would stop you from doing what you’re meant to do, airborn endurance only stops you from doing what you’re not meant to do.

But based on ArenaNet’s own releases we know that there is exploration with flying. There’s a reason why there are updrafts and stronger wings, so that we can find hidden areas of the map that can only be accessed this way. Sounds like exploration to me.

Also they’ve talked about these aerial beasts that will do some amount of combat with us while airborne. It’s currently unknown how extensive this combat is, but it could be a full battle just like land or water. I’ve read complaints that many of us “worriers” are making assumptions about what is in this expansion without knowing the facts, aren’t you making some assumptions here about what flying is not without all the facts?

As soon as gliding was announced, I wondered if there would be an endurance bar. I thought about it and, IMO, it would be okay as long as you could level up you endurance indefinitely. Something like MF, massive theoretical cap, but most would settle when they reach 1-2 minute bars and DR kicks in.

I can see how an endurance bar could be a hassle, but I don’t have a problem with them limiting the glide in some way. I guess it depends what happens when the endurance bar is depleted. If you fall to your death, that would discourage many people. Maybe instead, they could have it trigger a sort of updraft/headwind that catches your sail and carries you back to the point you jumped from. Yes, you’d be going backwards, but at least you wouldn’t die, and the updraft animation might be fun and exciting. Obviously, if you found a landing spot before the meter ran out, you wouldn’t be updrafted backwards. You don’t even have to require a physical touchdown but could allow them to continue if they at least glided to a height above an object where the remaining fall wouldn’t kill them.

I’m sure some of those ideas might be hard to implement and may require alot of calculating by the program as far as determining which fall would be fatal and which wouldn’t, but it might be something to look into. Not sure how it’d work with the physics engine.

BilboBaggins.5620:

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

BrunoBRS.5178:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

you have a really poor grasp of the design of both underwater mechanics and gliding if you really think the two are even remotely comparable.

Enlighten me then oh Maestro da Vinci!

as it’s been said several times in this thread by me and by others, underwater is fundamentally different from gliding. you see, going underwater isn’t something you do purely for locomotion. when you’re underwater, you’re exploring, doing hearts and events, fighting, etc. thus, forcing a player to go back to the surface halfway through a fight would be counter-intuitive.

meanwhile, gliding is purely a way of traversing. it’s a glorified jump pad. you use gliding from going from A to B. what the endurance bar does is limit what those “B’s” are. think of it like the zephyrite aspects: you can only go as far as the amount of charges you have left allow you to, but that’s ok, because the game was designed so that those charges are always enough to get everywhere you should be. similarly, you can (or will be able to, with enough mastery points) reach anywhere you should reach with a glider. you’ll never come short of a ledge when gliding if you’re meant to reach it and execute it well.

TL;DR: underwater endurance would stop you from doing what you’re meant to do, airborn endurance only stops you from doing what you’re not meant to do.

But based on ArenaNet’s own releases we know that there is exploration with flying. There’s a reason why there are updrafts and stronger wings, so that we can find hidden areas of the map that can only be accessed this way. Sounds like exploration to me.

Also they’ve talked about these aerial beasts that will do some amount of combat with us while airborne. It’s currently unknown how extensive this combat is, but it could be a full battle just like land or water. I’ve read complaints that many of us “worriers” are making assumptions about what is in this expansion without knowing the facts, aren’t you making some assumptions here about what flying is not without all the facts?

the updrafts are no more “exploring” than spotting a JP-like structure from the ground and trying to find your way there.

and ANet has never, ever mentioned fighting in combat. in fact, while gliding, the player was locked out of her skills. there are flying creatures, and there are ways to take advantage of gliding while fighting them, in that if they overwhelm a platform, you can leap to the next, not fight it in mid air. at most, expect them to be a hazard that just knocks you out of your glider if you come too close.

you people have to stop seeing things that aren’t there, this is worse than the land spears thread.

I’d actually say the opposite. Endurance makes flying more fun, as it adds a degree of challenge. You have to pick suitable points and efficiently use the flight, or you won’t get full effectiveness out of it. It’s not supposed to be a replacement to walking, but rather a supplement.

Limitations breed innovations… the bar will force you to be more creative with how you use the ability, and that idea is much more fun than gliding wherever you want without threat.

BilboBaggins.5620:

But based on ArenaNet’s own releases we know that there is exploration with flying. There’s a reason why there are updrafts and stronger wings, so that we can find hidden areas of the map that can only be accessed this way. Sounds like exploration to me.

Also they’ve talked about these aerial beasts that will do some amount of combat with us while airborne. It’s currently unknown how extensive this combat is, but it could be a full battle just like land or water. I’ve read complaints that many of us “worriers” are making assumptions about what is in this expansion without knowing the facts, aren’t you making some assumptions here about what flying is not without all the facts?

Going to need sources on that one, because I’ve combed everything Anet has said over the past few weeks and not once did they mention aerial combat.

BlueOcean.5380:

Wow, tirade mode. Actually I believe GW2’s intention is to support the arcade player base. Had written a nice post to you but decided to delete it because I didn’t feel like talking to someone like you. At this, I can see the type of player this game will be attracting, and frankly I’m happy to leave you to your dream. :p Have fun dude.

Those smileys… their usage seem paradoxical given the tone of the writing… You know smileys are intended to convey the tone of written words (given that text offers a lot of room for interpretation) while you’re clearly insulting and belittling. I don’t mind that so much, but those smileys are working on my OCD… seriously why smileys? Do you not know how smiley’s work? Are you trying to convey a fake sense of detachment? What are you trying to say with those smileys? Why do you torment me with the smileys?!

CureForLiving.5360:

BlueOcean.5380:

Wow, tirade mode. Actually I believe GW2’s intention is to support the arcade player base. Had written a nice post to you but decided to delete it because I didn’t feel like talking to someone like you. At this, I can see the type of player this game will be attracting, and frankly I’m happy to leave you to your dream. :p Have fun dude.

Those smileys… their usage seem paradoxical given the tone of the writing… You know smileys are intended to convey the tone of written words (given that text offers a lot of room for interpretation) while you’re clearly insulting and belittling. I don’t mind that so much, but those smileys are working on my OCD… seriously why smileys? Do you not know how smiley’s work? Are you trying to convey a fake sense of detachment? What are you trying to say with those smileys? Why do you torment me with the smileys?!

he’s trying to be condescending and “take the moral high ground”, because apparently pointing out how silly his previous posts were is a form of degrading.

Malthurius.6870:

Limitations breed innovations… the bar will force you to be more creative with how you use the ability, and that idea is much more fun than gliding wherever you want without threat.

Agreed in full. I’m glad they have gliding endurance, as it makes the game more challenging in a way that isn’t bigger numbers on enemies.