Guild Wars 2

I agree that its a PvE game now.

You couldnt say that before with many people being WvW and PvP only players like with teh lady who interviewed MO and he said " if you play WvW you play PvE" which turned alot of people off.

I just wanted to point out that Vayne, you said “WvW was never on life support” and that is clearly incorrect.

Also the declining PvP and WvW population obviously has no effect on the PvE scene. But your acting as if i havent played the game.

I have almost 29k AP and recently quit playing, you can sit here and say they were " innovative" maybe at the start of GW2. You can not say that HOT was since it took bits and pieces of other games such as Aion and City of Heros. (other NCSoft games)

The game has felt repetitive since HOT, with only 4 maps to play. Achievements like do X meta event 100 times. Do X meta event to collect items to craft new items and repeat for 3 of the maps.

Dont say its innovative when they put the GW2 spin on something thats been done 1000 times.

As for the expansion they talked alot about going back to the roots of GW2. That would lead me to believe that HOT didnt go in the favor of those clamoring to the defense of HOT as a whole.

Once again i dont like HOT but if other people do, more to ya. Yet i will not pretend as if the games population hasnt downed because it has and i will not pretend Anet did something amazing because they took a old toy and put a new bow on it and called it innovative.

Adrians Cloud.5042:

As for the future of games, as for the future of anything.. Futures require innovation to continue prospering. Take Call Of Duty for an example, they prospered along time recycling the same old thing until everyone got tired of it all and the franchise lost tons of fans.

GW2, Areanet… Please.

I’m watching these leaks of the upcoming expansion and all I witness is recycled content.

Sometimes recycled content is amazing, but for a game… For a game to prosper you need drastic change, innovation… No one wants to watch the magician pull a rabbit out of the hat 10 times, we want your magic act to continue to gain in suspense with NO repitition.

Stop hiring developers from Recycling plants. Start hiring some left field developers. We need visionaries. Not stationary artists.

Wow, that’s just … special. Almost everything Anet does is off the beaten path. Not sure what you are really after but if it’s ‘different’ Anet is it.

kdaddy.5431:

I agree that its a PvE game now.

You couldnt say that before with many people being WvW and PvP only players like with teh lady who interviewed MO and he said " if you play WvW you play PvE" which turned alot of people off.

I just wanted to point out that Vayne, you said “WvW was never on life support” and that is clearly incorrect.

Also the declining PvP and WvW population obviously has no effect on the PvE scene. But your acting as if i havent played the game.

I have almost 29k AP and recently quit playing, you can sit here and say they were " innovative" maybe at the start of GW2. You can not say that HOT was since it took bits and pieces of other games such as Aion and City of Heros. (other NCSoft games)

The game has felt repetitive since HOT, with only 4 maps to play. Achievements like do X meta event 100 times. Do X meta event to collect items to craft new items and repeat for 3 of the maps.

Dont say its innovative when they put the GW2 spin on something thats been done 1000 times.

As for the expansion they talked alot about going back to the roots of GW2. That would lead me to believe that HOT didnt go in the favor of those clamoring to the defense of HOT as a whole.

Once again i dont like HOT but if other people do, more to ya. Yet i will not pretend as if the games population hasnt downed because it has and i will not pretend Anet did something amazing because they took a old toy and put a new bow on it and called it innovative.

I don’t know what you’ve played and what you’ve haven’t played what what MMO has map design like HoT? The way gliding was used is innovative, particularly in an MMO. The fact is, I’ve played a lot of MMOs and none of them feel like this one.

You’re looking at individual features, I’m looking at the entirety of the game. You can have two novels using the exact same words and one of them can still be innovative while the other isn’t.

Saying something existed before so therefore if it’s used is there’s no innovation isn’t true. Anet is not the first MMO to use dynamic events. But it is the first MMO to abandon standard quests in favor of them. Warhammer had public quests, but you still leveled via the quest hub system. So did Rift. In that case the innovation came from having the bottle to go all in on dynamic events.

I say HoT is innovative because all up I’ve never actually played anything like it. As for your using the 100 times you have to do AB to get an achievement as an example, that’s a bit disingenuous, considering how many achievements there are that don’t require specific repetition. You’re quoting the exception as the rule and it is the exception.

Take the mastery points in DS for example. Every one of them came from doing an event, or finding a chest or performing some skill. The longest glide in TD was a great achievement. Going under the arches in AB isn’t grindy. Getting the chest while stealthing past snipers in TD isn’t grindy.

But the map design in HOT is truly unique in MMO space certainly. There’s nothing else out there like it. And the focus on the open world instead of on raids and dungeons, that’s pretty out there too, as is not raising the level cap, or introducing new tiers of gear.

You can say that it’s grindy but if you’re only quoting the most extreme example, I’d say the evidence isn’t necessarily on your side.

Map design should not be how you say something is innovative or not. Obviously its hard to say nothing is crazy new with all the MMO out there but the maps?

The way gliding was put in there, yes that was great with the updrafts and lines. very cool. The way you get them ummm very basic. pick a line and get XP. Aion and many other games had gliding.

Also you picked the very easy AP to do so please i think we will end it there with that. Obviously there are many rinse and repeat quests and achievements as well as very easy ones.

Another point, no new tiers of gear? So from exotic to ascended to legendary and now legendary trinkets. I must of missed the memo where there are no new tiers of gear.

Many games before did not raise the level bar either so thats not new either especially with GW1 and many games taking into the skill and acquiring different skills as a way of progression.

So to use your example HOT is a movie and its called Before i Fall, its about a girl who repeats her day.

Yet games like WoW, Aion, Champions Online City of Heros are Ground Hogs Day. Its a movie about a guy who repeats each day.

The reason you like Before i Fall better and why its innovative is because the lighting in the movie is so much better.

Like i said before Anet took other ideas and things in other games and put the GW2 shiny bow on it.

kdaddy.5431:

Map design should not be how you say something is innovative or not. Obviously its hard to say nothing is crazy new with all the MMO out there but the maps?

The way gliding was put in there, yes that was great with the updrafts and lines. very cool. The way you get them ummm very basic. pick a line and get XP. Aion and many other games had gliding.

Also you picked the very easy AP to do so please i think we will end it there with that. Obviously there are many rinse and repeat quests and achievements as well as very easy ones.

Another point, no new tiers of gear? So from exotic to ascended to legendary and now legendary trinkets. I must of missed the memo where there are no new tiers of gear.

Many games before did not raise the level bar either so thats not new either especially with GW1 and many games taking into the skill and acquiring different skills as a way of progression.

So to use your example HOT is a movie and its called Before i Fall, its about a girl who repeats her day.

Yet games like WoW, Aion, Champions Online City of Heros are Ground Hogs Day. Its a movie about a guy who repeats each day.

The reason you like Before i Fall better and why its innovative is because the lighting in the movie is so much better.

Like i said before Anet took other ideas and things in other games and put the GW2 shiny bow on it.

The creativity that goes into those maps is what makes those maps great and what keeps me there. So many ways to get to the same areas or different areas, So many shortcuts. That’s true creativity. It’s innovation to have paths open up as masteries are unlocked. You may not agree, but I’d be surprised if you could find another MMO that does it.

Innovation doesn’t mean, again that no one has done it. Those zones are highly innovative for the genre. Anet is breaking boundaries. They’re crossing genres. Some people don’t like that, some do, but it’s definitely daring.

Anet also tried to make a true “living world” and there were a million complaints and so they had to dial it back. But it was definitely innovative.

The fact is, since this game feels like no other MMO to me, it’s innovative. It’s different and fresh and I’m not the only one saying that. Your mileage may vary. That’s an opinion. You’re entitled to that.

But it doesn’t change the fact that many do see this as an innovative game, even if you don’t.

I think they’re going to have to do something about the jungle maps once the new expansion comes out. No one plays on them anymore basically and after the xpac, even fewer people will bother. Also, these empty maps will turn off new players wanting to do the story and content but not being able to due to lack of players.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I think they’re going to have to do something about the jungle maps once the new expansion comes out. No one plays on them anymore basically and after the xpac, even fewer people will bother. Also, these empty maps will turn off new players wanting to do the story and content but not being able to due to lack of players.

Why would you say no one plays them anymore, when I have people in my guild playing them every day, leveling masteries, getting colletiions done, on full maps. The new maps are played every hour of the day and night, following the event cycles. If you don’t believe me, I can show you.

If you go into random maps and random times, it’s harder to get stuff done, but even then, people play those maps. But at any hour, following the event cycles, there are always people in those zones and in fact, full maps in those zones.

Using my crsytal ball, I forsee that GW3 will finally have Linux Support.

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I think they’re going to have to do something about the jungle maps once the new expansion comes out. No one plays on them anymore basically and after the xpac, even fewer people will bother. Also, these empty maps will turn off new players wanting to do the story and content but not being able to due to lack of players.

Why would you say no one plays them anymore, when I have people in my guild playing them every day, leveling masteries, getting colletiions done, on full maps. The new maps are played every hour of the day and night, following the event cycles. If you don’t believe me, I can show you.

If you go into random maps and random times, it’s harder to get stuff done, but even then, people play those maps. But at any hour, following the event cycles, there are always people in those zones and in fact, full maps in those zones.

I can’t ever find a map that does the Dragon Stand meta event so I can get 100% completion. Also, I have a hard time getting any meta event except for maybe Verdant Brink, which seems to have a few players some of the time.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I think they’re going to have to do something about the jungle maps once the new expansion comes out. No one plays on them anymore basically and after the xpac, even fewer people will bother. Also, these empty maps will turn off new players wanting to do the story and content but not being able to due to lack of players.

Why would you say no one plays them anymore, when I have people in my guild playing them every day, leveling masteries, getting colletiions done, on full maps. The new maps are played every hour of the day and night, following the event cycles. If you don’t believe me, I can show you.

If you go into random maps and random times, it’s harder to get stuff done, but even then, people play those maps. But at any hour, following the event cycles, there are always people in those zones and in fact, full maps in those zones.

I can’t ever find a map that does the Dragon Stand meta event so I can get 100% completion. Also, I have a hard time getting any meta event except for maybe Verdant Brink, which seems to have a few players some of the time.

I’ve ;done dragon stand every hour of every day and five times in the last two weeks. It’s always done when it’s up.

You get to a timer site, you get to the zone 5 minutes early, you join a squad. When the zone closes, you make sure to get to the map with the commander as fast as possible. I have a 100% success rate for getting into maps that go all the way, and I’ve done this at least once a week since HoT’s launch, often more.

If you’re not using a timer site and the LFG tool, you’ll likely not get anything done in HoT. It doesn’t mean things aren’t being done. It means you’re not showing up where they’re being done.

A timer site? Seriously Vayne, at least use TacO. :P
(At least, so you dont have to open a site, I generally have everything off except for the day night timer)

I must say though, it’s very immersion breaking to go out of the game, look up a timer to do certain events. Yeah it is the way to do it successfully , but its definitely not an ideal or elegant experience in my opinion. Its not seamless or fluid.

But my personal opinion aside, I dont really understand how people cant find anything, unless they are not using the tools available to them.

FrizzFreston.5290:

A timer site? Seriously Vayne, at least use TacO. :P
(At least, so you dont have to open a site, I generally have everything off except for the day night timer)

I must say though, it’s very immersion breaking to go out of the game, look up a timer to do certain events. Yeah it is the way to do it successfully , but its definitely not an ideal or elegant experience in my opinion. Its not seamless or fluid.

But my personal opinion aside, I dont really understand how people cant find anything, unless they are not using the tools available to them.

Sorry I forget that people don’t have a second monitor. Or a timer site on their phone. I generally don’t prefer overlays.

I have no idea what a “timer site” is and I didn’t know I had to buy one in order to play Guild Wars 2. This seems kind of ridiculous. The few maps ever being advertised in the LFG are “closed maps” whenever I try them. Every. Single. Time. For the last 4 months it’s been like this.

A timer site is just a site that shows you when any meta is about to start or end the major map event. You can then sort of adjust your schedule to whichever meta is up and go to those a few minutes ( or 15 minutes to be safe) before the meta starts, or restarts incase of dragon’s stand.

Yeah, it’s not ideal in my opinion either. But that is the only way you can actually do those meta events successfully every day.

What I was talking about was TacO at https://gw2taco.blogspot.de. Just a small tool that you can use an API key for if you so desire. And it is ofcourse third party, so it’s always at your own risk I suppose. But it is very handy in showing you all kinds of ingame information. Most of which I find a bit too much btw, so I mostly use it for the daynight timer and meta event timers, as well as raids to see which bosses I have done.

But yeah. Not ideal, but at least successful.

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

How can I do this multiple times a week, and you can’t g;et in at all. Obviously one of us hasn’t figured out how to do it. You’re right in the fact that it’s not something you can just know, it’s one of the values of joining a knowledgable guild. Guilds share this kind if information. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve taken on their first dragon stand run, one of the reasons I’ve done it so much.

The trick is to get there before it starts…when the old map is closing. You join a squad. If there is no squad at five minutes too, use the looking for group tool to join a squad.

When the map closes you’ll die. Immediately waypoint to the first waypoint in the zone, right click on the commander in the squad and choose join in dragon stand. That’s assuming you’re not already in the same map. In case you haven’t joined a lot of squads, if the box with the commander’s name it is in green, you’re on the same server. If it’s clear then you should right click on his name and click join in dragon stand.

Once you’re on the map, you’re good to go. Just stick with the commander.

Again, I haven’t done this once or twice. Iv’e done this dozens of times.

The entire game is on timers, btw, including the world bosses. A site like gw2timer.com would be of great help. There are also overlays you can download if you prefer.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

People aren’t being condescending any more than you’re being argumentative. They are describing their reality which is: DS is running all the time; it’s always possible to get on a map. Your experience is that you can never find one.

So those who can find one have tried to explain what they do, so you can also do that and get into a DS map at will (when it’s up). (Ideally, they should also try to figure out what you are doing differently that is making this harder for you.)

If you’re already aware of the when:

• Are you getting to DS well before the relevant time?
• Do you go to DS first or look in LFG first?
• What do you see in the LFG? Is it empty? Or do you see listings that don’t seem to apply?
• What time zone are you in (and what region)? (So we know what you mean by “6-10 pm”)

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

How can I do this multiple times a week, and you can’t g;et in at all. Obviously one of us hasn’t figured out how to do it. You’re right in the fact that it’s not something you can just know, it’s one of the values of joining a knowledgable guild. Guilds share this kind if information. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve taken on their first dragon stand run, one of the reasons I’ve done it so much.

The trick is to get there before it starts…when the old map is closing. You join a squad. If there is no squad at five minutes too, use the looking for group tool to join a squad.

When the map closes you’ll die. Immediately waypoint to the first waypoint in the zone, right click on the commander in the squad and choose join in dragon stand. That’s assuming you’re not already in the same map. In case you haven’t joined a lot of squads, if the box with the commander’s name it is in green, you’re on the same server. If it’s clear then you should right click on his name and click join in dragon stand.

Once you’re on the map, you’re good to go. Just stick with the commander.

Again, I haven’t done this once or twice. Iv’e done this dozens of times.

The entire game is on timers, btw, including the world bosses. A site like gw2timer.com would be of great help. There are also overlays you can download if you prefer.

I know all of this already. I know all about world boss timers. In case you don’t realize it, Dragon’s Stand really isn’t a boss like the Shadow Beast. Not the same thing at all. It hasn’t helped. It’s as simple as I’ve gotten into dozens of maps at the exact right time before the event starts. There are maybe 15 people total. Over and over it happens, assuming I get into a map at all. Nothing gets done.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

People aren’t being condescending any more than you’re being argumentative. They are describing their reality which is: DS is running all the time; it’s always possible to get on a map. Your experience is that you can never find one.

So those who can find one have tried to explain what they do, so you can also do that and get into a DS map at will (when it’s up). (Ideally, they should also try to figure out what you are doing differently that is making this harder for you.)

If you’re already aware of the when:

• Are you getting to DS well before the relevant time?
• Do you go to DS first or look in LFG first?
• What do you see in the LFG? Is it empty? Or do you see listings that don’t seem to apply?
• What time zone are you in (and what region)? (So we know what you mean by “6-10 pm”)

Yes, I’m always early for the event. It varies. Usually, I check LFG first. The times when I’ve gotten into a map, there might be a lot of people about 20 minutes before the map ends and we all get thrown. Then all those people get divided up into multiple other maps and the ones left on my map are a fraction of the ones from 10 minutes before.

The LFG almost always has only 1 or 2 groups listed, if there are any at all (many times there are none listed), and without fail, they’ve all so far been too small in number to complete the event. I’ve done a lot of failed events. People in the maps I’m in are saying things like they started playing months ago and have never once seen a successful Dragon’s Stand event. I’m Central Time Zone, as in the Midwest of the U.S.A.

My experience is no less valid than Vayne’s. I’m telling you what I’m experiencing and it’s not because I don’t know what to do. I did Dragon’s Stand dozens if not hundreds of times when it came out. I commanded groups all the time. I know how it works. But it’s not working recently for me. There are not the same number of groups as there were when HoT came out, from what I’m seeing now. Not even close. And the maps have far fewer people in them than what I once saw on a regular basis almost a year ago.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

How can I do this multiple times a week, and you can’t g;et in at all. Obviously one of us hasn’t figured out how to do it. You’re right in the fact that it’s not something you can just know, it’s one of the values of joining a knowledgable guild. Guilds share this kind if information. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve taken on their first dragon stand run, one of the reasons I’ve done it so much.

The trick is to get there before it starts…when the old map is closing. You join a squad. If there is no squad at five minutes too, use the looking for group tool to join a squad.

When the map closes you’ll die. Immediately waypoint to the first waypoint in the zone, right click on the commander in the squad and choose join in dragon stand. That’s assuming you’re not already in the same map. In case you haven’t joined a lot of squads, if the box with the commander’s name it is in green, you’re on the same server. If it’s clear then you should right click on his name and click join in dragon stand.

Once you’re on the map, you’re good to go. Just stick with the commander.

Again, I haven’t done this once or twice. Iv’e done this dozens of times.

The entire game is on timers, btw, including the world bosses. A site like gw2timer.com would be of great help. There are also overlays you can download if you prefer.

I know all of this already. I know all about world boss timers. In case you don’t realize it, Dragon’s Stand really isn’t a boss like the Shadow Beast. Not the same thing at all. It hasn’t helped. It’s as simple as I’ve gotten into dozens of maps at the exact right time before the event starts. There are maybe 15 people total. Over and over it happens, assuming I get into a map at all. Nothing gets done.

Okay I have nothing to say to that. I haven’t missed getting into a map in probably a year. I’ve done it at least dozens of times. I’m not sure why you’re having a different experience than everyone in my guild who runs it, but obviously something is going on.

I’m in Australia, I run it at US times and sometimes at Australian prime time Haven’t had a problem getting into a map in forever

You say people end up on different servers, that’s why you join the squad and specifically join on the commander.

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

How can I do this multiple times a week, and you can’t g;et in at all. Obviously one of us hasn’t figured out how to do it. You’re right in the fact that it’s not something you can just know, it’s one of the values of joining a knowledgable guild. Guilds share this kind if information. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve taken on their first dragon stand run, one of the reasons I’ve done it so much.

The trick is to get there before it starts…when the old map is closing. You join a squad. If there is no squad at five minutes too, use the looking for group tool to join a squad.

When the map closes you’ll die. Immediately waypoint to the first waypoint in the zone, right click on the commander in the squad and choose join in dragon stand. That’s assuming you’re not already in the same map. In case you haven’t joined a lot of squads, if the box with the commander’s name it is in green, you’re on the same server. If it’s clear then you should right click on his name and click join in dragon stand.

Once you’re on the map, you’re good to go. Just stick with the commander.

Again, I haven’t done this once or twice. Iv’e done this dozens of times.

The entire game is on timers, btw, including the world bosses. A site like gw2timer.com would be of great help. There are also overlays you can download if you prefer.

I know all of this already. I know all about world boss timers. In case you don’t realize it, Dragon’s Stand really isn’t a boss like the Shadow Beast. Not the same thing at all. It hasn’t helped. It’s as simple as I’ve gotten into dozens of maps at the exact right time before the event starts. There are maybe 15 people total. Over and over it happens, assuming I get into a map at all. Nothing gets done.

Okay I have nothing to say to that. I haven’t missed getting into a map in probably a year. I’ve done it at least dozens of times. I’m not sure why you’re having a different experience than everyone in my guild who runs it, but obviously something is going on.

I’m in Australia, I run it at US times and sometimes at Australian prime time Haven’t had a problem getting into a map in forever

You say people end up on different servers, that’s why you join the squad and specifically join on the commander.

Perhaps Celtic Lady is playing in EU at off times?

Celtic Lady.3729:

My experience is no less valid than Vayne’s.

Yes, that was exactly my point.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

How can I do this multiple times a week, and you can’t g;et in at all. Obviously one of us hasn’t figured out how to do it. You’re right in the fact that it’s not something you can just know, it’s one of the values of joining a knowledgable guild. Guilds share this kind if information. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve taken on their first dragon stand run, one of the reasons I’ve done it so much.

The trick is to get there before it starts…when the old map is closing. You join a squad. If there is no squad at five minutes too, use the looking for group tool to join a squad.

When the map closes you’ll die. Immediately waypoint to the first waypoint in the zone, right click on the commander in the squad and choose join in dragon stand. That’s assuming you’re not already in the same map. In case you haven’t joined a lot of squads, if the box with the commander’s name it is in green, you’re on the same server. If it’s clear then you should right click on his name and click join in dragon stand.

Once you’re on the map, you’re good to go. Just stick with the commander.

Again, I haven’t done this once or twice. Iv’e done this dozens of times.

The entire game is on timers, btw, including the world bosses. A site like gw2timer.com would be of great help. There are also overlays you can download if you prefer.

I know all of this already. I know all about world boss timers. In case you don’t realize it, Dragon’s Stand really isn’t a boss like the Shadow Beast. Not the same thing at all. It hasn’t helped. It’s as simple as I’ve gotten into dozens of maps at the exact right time before the event starts. There are maybe 15 people total. Over and over it happens, assuming I get into a map at all. Nothing gets done.

Okay I have nothing to say to that. I haven’t missed getting into a map in probably a year. I’ve done it at least dozens of times. I’m not sure why you’re having a different experience than everyone in my guild who runs it, but obviously something is going on.

I’m in Australia, I run it at US times and sometimes at Australian prime time Haven’t had a problem getting into a map in forever

You say people end up on different servers, that’s why you join the squad and specifically join on the commander.

Perhaps Celtic Lady is playing in EU at off times?

It’s possible that’s the case. But there have been other people in EU who have had similar complaints and I seem to recall other EU players saying pretty much the same thing I’ve said. I could be mistaken about that, but I’m not thinking the game any worse off in EU than it is in the US. Just a guess, but an educated one.

I’m Central Time Zone, as in the Midwest of the U.S.A.

Generally the instance right around server roll over time, and the one just after are pretty easy to get into. Try to make sure you’re in a commander’s group before the map refreshes and everyone dies. Those in the squad will load together.

Additionally, just because a group is small in the LFG doesn’t mean its not a full or near full map. A lot of people will ferry for the larger squads.

Still, I can understand the frustration. I’ve had stretches where getting into a DS map with enough ppl to complete it was nigh impossible. I’ve given up trying early mornings on weekends, which is (sadly) typically when I play.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m Central Time Zone, as in the Midwest of the U.S.A.

Generally the instance right around server roll over time, and the one just after are pretty easy to get into. Try to make sure you’re in a commander’s group before the map refreshes and everyone dies. Those in the squad will load together.

Additionally, just because a group is small in the LFG doesn’t mean its not a full or near full map. A lot of people will ferry for the larger squads.

Still, I can understand the frustration. I’ve had stretches where getting into a DS map with enough ppl to complete it was nigh impossible. I’ve given up trying early mornings on weekends, which is (sadly) typically when I play.

See, this is what I mean. Even people I know of that aren’t having as hard a time as I am are saying they are working two, three, four hours just to get into a viable map. They talk about their play time getting eaten up trying to find that one map that can complete the event chain all the way through. Frustration, indeed. I figured that playing at U.S. prime time would be a sure thing, but it’s just not.

I don’t know what you mean about being in a squad and everyone loading into the same map because that doesn’t always seem to be the case. I’ve been in Dragon Stand squads of 50 people 10 minutes before map reset and when we all get booted into the new map, there are maybe 4 or 5 of us on the same map. Everyone else is on a different map or more than one different map. When that happened, I’ve tried to click on someone’s name in the group like the leader’s, and port immediately into their map, but it will say that the map is closed or full. This is just a minute or so after reset. Things like this keep happening to me.

My experience and the frustrations of others’ experiences make me think Anet would do well to consider changes to some of the jungle maps to make it easier for a smaller number of players to actually play and complete content that seems only designed for uber large groups at launch time. That kind of design is good for maybe a few months or a year or so at best. Then new content comes along, crowds thin, and suddenly champion level HCs and meta events for 150 people that completely block map completion don’t seem like such a great idea anymore.

Also, the whole map ending thing is just unnecessary. Other event chains work just fine in maps that never “end.” Don’t see why it couldn’t work here, too. I just think the addition of Path of Fire is going to make things like Dragon’s Stand even more irrelevant.

I and many others have said it can be hard to get into meta maps especially ones where people are there to do the event.

Peoples arguments are “use LFG” or outside the game tools and other what nots.

I personally couldnt find many maps when i was playing in the HOT areas. Another guild member got in them easily but he was looking for them. Another guild member who was playing on a Mac would get kicked out of the maps if they were to full and he lose his spot and rewards which was really dumb since some events are 1 hour long.

Vayne will argue to death that we are all incorrect. I personally have kids and a job and when i come into the game i wasnt looking at timers. I go into PvP do a few matches and if i had time go into the HOT areas.

Its why HOT was a total miss for me. Hot is what PvE players claim is hard content and as someone who played alot of PvP i didnt find how it was difficult.

HOT killed build diversity and is still forcing players into certain roles. Obviously from a balance team stance it would be easier but you see alot of complaints because raids are not about skill, the HOT areas are not about skill, and then the introduction of more PvE stuff into PvP and WvW.

Anytime you say the beauty of GW2 is the play your way play style and then completely trash it with HOT, it hits the player base.

To me HOT maps will turn into what GW2 core maps look like once Anet implements the new reward currency in the new expansion as well any new shinys you want which will have to do for the expansion.

But just like the recent patch, it will take 3-4 years for Anet to change anything and then everyone will go why now?

Oh wait GW 3 will come out ……….

kdaddy.5431:

I and many others have said it can be hard to get into meta maps especially ones where people are there to do the event.

Peoples arguments are “use LFG” or outside the game tools and other what nots.

I personally couldnt find many maps when i was playing in the HOT areas. Another guild member got in them easily but he was looking for them. Another guild member who was playing on a Mac would get kicked out of the maps if they were to full and he lose his spot and rewards which was really dumb since some events are 1 hour long.

Vayne will argue to death that we are all incorrect. I personally have kids and a job and when i come into the game i wasnt looking at timers. I go into PvP do a few matches and if i had time go into the HOT areas.

Its why HOT was a total miss for me. Hot is what PvE players claim is hard content and as someone who played alot of PvP i didnt find how it was difficult.

HOT killed build diversity and is still forcing players into certain roles. Obviously from a balance team stance it would be easier but you see alot of complaints because raids are not about skill, the HOT areas are not about skill, and then the introduction of more PvE stuff into PvP and WvW.

Anytime you say the beauty of GW2 is the play your way play style and then completely trash it with HOT, it hits the player base.

To me HOT maps will turn into what GW2 core maps look like once Anet implements the new reward currency in the new expansion as well any new shinys you want which will have to do for the expansion.

But just like the recent patch, it will take 3-4 years for Anet to change anything and then everyone will go why now?

Oh wait GW 3 will come out ……….

Long before HoT came out, people complained about the zerker meta forcing people into certain builds. And there have always been people who ignored it and played anyway. The game hasn’t changed.

Yes, it’s horrible to have to go to a timer site, except that this situation existed long before HoT. If you wanted to do world bosses, long before HoT launched, you needed to go to a timer site. If you wanted to do the great jungle wurm or the fire ele or the frozen maw, or the shadow behemoth, it’s been many years and you’ve had to look at a timer site all that time. That changed long before HoT.

I know it’s very fashionable to blame HoT for every ill this game has, but those things changed long long before HoT was released, or even announced. The game has changed, that’s true. Some might even say it evolved.

But you don’t have to be a hard core dedicated player to open a website and note the time stuff starts.

It’s a fair enough complaint when people say I don’t have a lot of time, and these events occur when I can’t play. That’s a valid complaint I’ve never once argued against.

Saying these events don’t get done, however, I’ll argue against if my experience is that I do them on a relatively regular basis without any problem at all.

The only meta in HoT that’s hard to get done at this point is getting to Tier 4 in VB night and that’s because so few people understand how it needs to be organized and because the reward is relatively minor, compared to what you get in other metas.

Vayne.8563:

Long before HoT came out, people complained about the zerker meta forcing people into certain builds. And there have always been people who ignored it and played anyway. The game hasn’t changed.

Yes, it’s horrible to have to go to a timer site, except that this situation existed long before HoT. If you wanted to do world bosses, long before HoT launched, you needed to go to a timer site. If you wanted to do the great jungle wurm or the fire ele or the frozen maw, or the shadow behemoth, it’s been many years and you’ve had to look at a timer site all that time. That changed long before HoT.

I know it’s very fashionable to blame HoT for every ill this game has, but those things changed long long before HoT was released, or even announced. The game has changed, that’s true. Some might even say it evolved.

That’s not entirely true with timer sites to be honest. The HoT Metas and world bosses are a world apart, both in difficulty and style. I never needed a timer site for any of the world bosses. And with the mega server change, they did go on a schedule, which has been years, maybe needed to look at a timer more whenever I needed a specific boss, which is rearely to be honest. Also rewards for worldbosses are barely worth mentioning, while for some of the current metas that is exactly where you get alot of materials.

Dragon’s Stand is worse than the other metas though, most of the rewards are behind a successful run, however… the biggest problem is that it does not even start if you don’t have 15 people. I can’t comment on how difficult it is with 15 people or whichever, though I have no doubt it might as well be possible.

The problem in my opinion is that it’s another hurdle to even start to get the ball rolling. If you can start it and do the events, then you can get some loot from the events as well as a possibility for more people to actually start and attempt to finish the meta. More often than not it’s possible to finish the meta successfully.

It’s really annoying to stand there and realise you need to get 15 players together otherwise you can’t do anything in Dragon’s stand. And I think the game doesn’t need that 15 player minimum to protect people from “failure”. I rather try and fail than not being able to try at all.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Long before HoT came out, people complained about the zerker meta forcing people into certain builds. And there have always been people who ignored it and played anyway. The game hasn’t changed.

Yes, it’s horrible to have to go to a timer site, except that this situation existed long before HoT. If you wanted to do world bosses, long before HoT launched, you needed to go to a timer site. If you wanted to do the great jungle wurm or the fire ele or the frozen maw, or the shadow behemoth, it’s been many years and you’ve had to look at a timer site all that time. That changed long before HoT.

I know it’s very fashionable to blame HoT for every ill this game has, but those things changed long long before HoT was released, or even announced. The game has changed, that’s true. Some might even say it evolved.

That’s not entirely true with timer sites to be honest. The HoT Metas and world bosses are a world apart, both in difficulty and style. I never needed a timer site for any of the world bosses. And with the mega server change, they did go on a schedule, which has been years, maybe needed to look at a timer more whenever I needed a specific boss, which is rearely to be honest. Also rewards for worldbosses are barely worth mentioning, while for some of the current metas that is exactly where you get alot of materials.

Dragon’s Stand is worse than the other metas though, most of the rewards are behind a successful run, however… the biggest problem is that it does not even start if you don’t have 15 people. I can’t comment on how difficult it is with 15 people or whichever, though I have no doubt it might as well be possible.

The problem in my opinion is that it’s another hurdle to even start to get the ball rolling. If you can start it and do the events, then you can get some loot from the events as well as a possibility for more people to actually start and attempt to finish the meta. More often than not it’s possible to finish the meta successfully.

It’s really annoying to stand there and realise you need to get 15 players together otherwise you can’t do anything in Dragon’s stand. And I think the game doesn’t need that 15 player minimum to protect people from “failure”. I rather try and fail than not being able to try at all.

You never needed a timer? So if you wanted to do the fire ele, you’d just rock up there and sit around for two hours until it spawned again.

World bosses have been on timers since the game got mega servers, which was well before HoT launched. If you want to do a world boss, a specific world boss, your options are to know what time it spawns, or to look it up on a timer…or to stand around and wait, perhaps hours, in a zone until it does.

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, this is what I mean. Even people I know of that aren’t having as hard a time as I am are saying they are working two, three, four hours just to get into a viable map. They talk about their play time getting eaten up trying to find that one map that can complete the event chain all the way through. Frustration, indeed. I figured that playing at U.S. prime time would be a sure thing, but it’s just not.

No, even prime time doesn’t seem to be a sure thing for many. Oddly it seems to be a 50/50 shot. Either you don’t seem to have much of an issue, or you struggle. Perhaps we’re just not in-tune with the ebb and flow of the ‘common’ times of the hot maps. shrug If I miss it, I generally have plenty of other things to do to keep me busy, and I just try again when it’s about time to refresh.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I don’t know what you mean about being in a squad and everyone loading into the same map because that doesn’t always seem to be the case. I’ve been in Dragon Stand squads of 50 people 10 minutes before map reset and when we all get booted into the new map, there are maybe 4 or 5 of us on the same map. Everyone else is on a different map or more than one different map. When that happened, I’ve tried to click on someone’s name in the group like the leader’s, and port immediately into their map, but it will say that the map is closed or full. This is just a minute or so after reset. Things like this keep happening to me.

I have that happen rarely, but you should be able to right-click and join the commander in their map without too much issue. It shouldn’t fill instantly. Most maps do take 5-10 minutes to fill, which is why people do ferries. But most of the squad does typically make it into the same map on reset.

Celtic Lady.3729:

My experience and the frustrations of others’ experiences make me think Anet would do well to consider changes to some of the jungle maps to make it easier for a smaller number of players to actually play and complete content that seems only designed for uber large groups at launch time. That kind of design is good for maybe a few months or a year or so at best. Then new content comes along, crowds thin, and suddenly champion level HCs and meta events for 150 people that completely block map completion don’t seem like such a great idea anymore.

The maps being (essentially) on just giant timers were one of the complaints many had, along with not being able to reach assorted components of exploration without doing the metas, and I’m sure Anet has taken it into consideration. There’s only so much they can do about HoT now, we’ll just have to live with it. It’s not like they can just ‘turn it off.’ They may eventually reduce the number of people required to complete the events (they do take a look at scaling periodically), but I’m sure they’ll keep the issues that many encountered and complained about in mind for future expansions. They’re talking about getting back to exploration more like it was in the core game with PoF, so we’ll see how they do.

Future?

New gemstore item: Explorers package, available for a limited time. You can buy this 1 more time!

Complete pack for new and moderately experienced players. Contains:

• Links to the top 3 timer sites.
• Developer written guides on using LFG
• Thorough explanation of taxiing. (Bonus video content: I met my wife driving a taxi!)
  + A random chance of unlocking the title “Always LFG but I never walk alone”

At least it would be in line with a lot of (not so useful) forum feedback

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Long before HoT came out, people complained about the zerker meta forcing people into certain builds. And there have always been people who ignored it and played anyway. The game hasn’t changed.

Yes, it’s horrible to have to go to a timer site, except that this situation existed long before HoT. If you wanted to do world bosses, long before HoT launched, you needed to go to a timer site. If you wanted to do the great jungle wurm or the fire ele or the frozen maw, or the shadow behemoth, it’s been many years and you’ve had to look at a timer site all that time. That changed long before HoT.

I know it’s very fashionable to blame HoT for every ill this game has, but those things changed long long before HoT was released, or even announced. The game has changed, that’s true. Some might even say it evolved.

That’s not entirely true with timer sites to be honest. The HoT Metas and world bosses are a world apart, both in difficulty and style. I never needed a timer site for any of the world bosses. And with the mega server change, they did go on a schedule, which has been years, maybe needed to look at a timer more whenever I needed a specific boss, which is rearely to be honest. Also rewards for worldbosses are barely worth mentioning, while for some of the current metas that is exactly where you get alot of materials.

Dragon’s Stand is worse than the other metas though, most of the rewards are behind a successful run, however… the biggest problem is that it does not even start if you don’t have 15 people. I can’t comment on how difficult it is with 15 people or whichever, though I have no doubt it might as well be possible.

The problem in my opinion is that it’s another hurdle to even start to get the ball rolling. If you can start it and do the events, then you can get some loot from the events as well as a possibility for more people to actually start and attempt to finish the meta. More often than not it’s possible to finish the meta successfully.

It’s really annoying to stand there and realise you need to get 15 players together otherwise you can’t do anything in Dragon’s stand. And I think the game doesn’t need that 15 player minimum to protect people from “failure”. I rather try and fail than not being able to try at all.

You never needed a timer? So if you wanted to do the fire ele, you’d just rock up there and sit around for two hours until it spawned again.

World bosses have been on timers since the game got mega servers, which was well before HoT launched. If you want to do a world boss, a specific world boss, your options are to know what time it spawns, or to look it up on a timer…or to stand around and wait, perhaps hours, in a zone until it does.

When this game first came out and about 1-2 years into it.

My guild would just have players announce it. For instance im in The Jormag Area and the crystals pop. Im not in there just goofing around, i was either farming or map completing and from here i told my guild and before that you would go to LA to announce.

You remember that before mega servers? I use to do it all the time for WvW. Like we need help in CD borderland T3 bay about to be taken and then a large group of people from CD would go to defend.

I have only looked at the timer when Anet starting putting out easter egg events where i needed to do X boss to complete X achievement to get X item. You can call this evolved but i do not, its different.

Also the condi issue where players said they had to play X build. I have ran full trap ranger since the game has started as well as s/s warrior in PvP and WvW.

It was harder to play condi but dont say you had to use condi. After the patch to open condi like burns, poison and others. Its turned GW2 into condi spam fests.

For instance in PvP players will say ohhh but power builds are the meta and other players will have to respond with no. The ranger and engy are bruiser supports, ele is a heal bot, rev became irrelevant after some nerfs and the main classes that every team needs to succeed is a condi mesmer and condi necro.

You then go to WvW where entire 50 man zergs are insta dying from a epi from 3-4 necros.

It might have been harder to play condi before HOT but after HOT the game has infested with condi.

Also you are speaking as someone looks at timers for events, probably knows the guilds and commanders who coordinate the events.

The GW2 player base had a huge casual crowd who consisted of farming and exploring the world. These players are running into issues like going into a map realizing its on a timer. Waiting for 30 min for the event to start only to realize they are on the dead map when only 5 people are in Orge lane.

When you go into PvP or WvW your just gonna lose out to bigger armies or better players. In HOT you can literally feel trolled by Anet with how things have been set up in HOT.

Example- For instance my guild and i ran around in VB doing events leveling up the instance. We got moved because the map was dead, now of course everyone could say this was our fault for staying on a dead map. Be it as it may, the map we were in was at 3 and we would of not made it to 4.

We got moved to a map at 1, we did not feel like doing the events again. Once again that could be blamed on us but we just want to play the game. And at times GW2 has made the game feel like work instead of fun with some of the events which has crossed alot of people.

Not saying you since you want to call this evolved but im pretty sure Anet doesnt since in the POF talks they kept saying “going back to basics”.

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Long before HoT came out, people complained about the zerker meta forcing people into certain builds. And there have always been people who ignored it and played anyway. The game hasn’t changed.

Yes, it’s horrible to have to go to a timer site, except that this situation existed long before HoT. If you wanted to do world bosses, long before HoT launched, you needed to go to a timer site. If you wanted to do the great jungle wurm or the fire ele or the frozen maw, or the shadow behemoth, it’s been many years and you’ve had to look at a timer site all that time. That changed long before HoT.

I know it’s very fashionable to blame HoT for every ill this game has, but those things changed long long before HoT was released, or even announced. The game has changed, that’s true. Some might even say it evolved.

That’s not entirely true with timer sites to be honest. The HoT Metas and world bosses are a world apart, both in difficulty and style. I never needed a timer site for any of the world bosses. And with the mega server change, they did go on a schedule, which has been years, maybe needed to look at a timer more whenever I needed a specific boss, which is rearely to be honest. Also rewards for worldbosses are barely worth mentioning, while for some of the current metas that is exactly where you get alot of materials.

Dragon’s Stand is worse than the other metas though, most of the rewards are behind a successful run, however… the biggest problem is that it does not even start if you don’t have 15 people. I can’t comment on how difficult it is with 15 people or whichever, though I have no doubt it might as well be possible.

The problem in my opinion is that it’s another hurdle to even start to get the ball rolling. If you can start it and do the events, then you can get some loot from the events as well as a possibility for more people to actually start and attempt to finish the meta. More often than not it’s possible to finish the meta successfully.

It’s really annoying to stand there and realise you need to get 15 players together otherwise you can’t do anything in Dragon’s stand. And I think the game doesn’t need that 15 player minimum to protect people from “failure”. I rather try and fail than not being able to try at all.

You never needed a timer? So if you wanted to do the fire ele, you’d just rock up there and sit around for two hours until it spawned again.

World bosses have been on timers since the game got mega servers, which was well before HoT launched. If you want to do a world boss, a specific world boss, your options are to know what time it spawns, or to look it up on a timer…or to stand around and wait, perhaps hours, in a zone until it does.

Yup, I never really needed a timer. I did do say though that if I wanted a specific boss then I definitely did look at a timer, and maybe the last few years with the dailies. But I never really bothered running a specific world boss.

This mostly has to do with the reward scheme and the way I play though I guess. You can do all world bosses and the usual you get is some greens blues and a yellow. It never was worth chasing after. Plus if you do find a boss, it’s really easy to tag along as most of the time the next worldboss gets pointed out.

It does made it so I did less worldbosses, in core. And maybe made me think of the world boss event guild item stretching over to all the world bosses. Or something akin to that. Or doing pre events to then realise that the world boss is on a timer and feeling slightly disappointed I forgot that.

On top of them being no challenge no fun zerg 1-spam fest, which I generally avoid regardless.

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Long before HoT came out, people complained about the zerker meta forcing people into certain builds. And there have always been people who ignored it and played anyway. The game hasn’t changed.

Yes, it’s horrible to have to go to a timer site, except that this situation existed long before HoT. If you wanted to do world bosses, long before HoT launched, you needed to go to a timer site. If you wanted to do the great jungle wurm or the fire ele or the frozen maw, or the shadow behemoth, it’s been many years and you’ve had to look at a timer site all that time. That changed long before HoT.

I know it’s very fashionable to blame HoT for every ill this game has, but those things changed long long before HoT was released, or even announced. The game has changed, that’s true. Some might even say it evolved.

That’s not entirely true with timer sites to be honest. The HoT Metas and world bosses are a world apart, both in difficulty and style. I never needed a timer site for any of the world bosses. And with the mega server change, they did go on a schedule, which has been years, maybe needed to look at a timer more whenever I needed a specific boss, which is rearely to be honest. Also rewards for worldbosses are barely worth mentioning, while for some of the current metas that is exactly where you get alot of materials.

Dragon’s Stand is worse than the other metas though, most of the rewards are behind a successful run, however… the biggest problem is that it does not even start if you don’t have 15 people. I can’t comment on how difficult it is with 15 people or whichever, though I have no doubt it might as well be possible.

The problem in my opinion is that it’s another hurdle to even start to get the ball rolling. If you can start it and do the events, then you can get some loot from the events as well as a possibility for more people to actually start and attempt to finish the meta. More often than not it’s possible to finish the meta successfully.

It’s really annoying to stand there and realise you need to get 15 players together otherwise you can’t do anything in Dragon’s stand. And I think the game doesn’t need that 15 player minimum to protect people from “failure”. I rather try and fail than not being able to try at all.

You never needed a timer? So if you wanted to do the fire ele, you’d just rock up there and sit around for two hours until it spawned again.

World bosses have been on timers since the game got mega servers, which was well before HoT launched. If you want to do a world boss, a specific world boss, your options are to know what time it spawns, or to look it up on a timer…or to stand around and wait, perhaps hours, in a zone until it does.

When this game first came out and about 1-2 years into it.

My guild would just have players announce it. For instance im in The Jormag Area and the crystals pop. Im not in there just goofing around, i was either farming or map completing and from here i told my guild and before that you would go to LA to announce.

You remember that before mega servers? I use to do it all the time for WvW. Like we need help in CD borderland T3 bay about to be taken and then a large group of people from CD would go to defend.

I have only looked at the timer when Anet starting putting out easter egg events where i needed to do X boss to complete X achievement to get X item. You can call this evolved but i do not, its different.

Oh so you have to join a guild, as opposed to looking at a timer site. it’s okay to force people into a guild assuming your guild announces it, but it’s not okay to go to a timer site?

And does your guild still annouce the fire ele now? I sort of doubt it, unless it’s the daily.

Those who say when this game came out in an MMO are doomed to dislike all MMOs because MMOs always change. And I wouldn’t trade the mega server for not having to go to a timer site, under any circumstance.

That’s the single thing that allows Anet to keep adding new zones. It would be a bad trade off.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Long before HoT came out, people complained about the zerker meta forcing people into certain builds. And there have always been people who ignored it and played anyway. The game hasn’t changed.

Yes, it’s horrible to have to go to a timer site, except that this situation existed long before HoT. If you wanted to do world bosses, long before HoT launched, you needed to go to a timer site. If you wanted to do the great jungle wurm or the fire ele or the frozen maw, or the shadow behemoth, it’s been many years and you’ve had to look at a timer site all that time. That changed long before HoT.

I know it’s very fashionable to blame HoT for every ill this game has, but those things changed long long before HoT was released, or even announced. The game has changed, that’s true. Some might even say it evolved.

That’s not entirely true with timer sites to be honest. The HoT Metas and world bosses are a world apart, both in difficulty and style. I never needed a timer site for any of the world bosses. And with the mega server change, they did go on a schedule, which has been years, maybe needed to look at a timer more whenever I needed a specific boss, which is rearely to be honest. Also rewards for worldbosses are barely worth mentioning, while for some of the current metas that is exactly where you get alot of materials.

Dragon’s Stand is worse than the other metas though, most of the rewards are behind a successful run, however… the biggest problem is that it does not even start if you don’t have 15 people. I can’t comment on how difficult it is with 15 people or whichever, though I have no doubt it might as well be possible.

The problem in my opinion is that it’s another hurdle to even start to get the ball rolling. If you can start it and do the events, then you can get some loot from the events as well as a possibility for more people to actually start and attempt to finish the meta. More often than not it’s possible to finish the meta successfully.

It’s really annoying to stand there and realise you need to get 15 players together otherwise you can’t do anything in Dragon’s stand. And I think the game doesn’t need that 15 player minimum to protect people from “failure”. I rather try and fail than not being able to try at all.

You never needed a timer? So if you wanted to do the fire ele, you’d just rock up there and sit around for two hours until it spawned again.

World bosses have been on timers since the game got mega servers, which was well before HoT launched. If you want to do a world boss, a specific world boss, your options are to know what time it spawns, or to look it up on a timer…or to stand around and wait, perhaps hours, in a zone until it does.

Yup, I never really needed a timer. I did do say though that if I wanted a specific boss then I definitely did look at a timer, and maybe the last few years with the dailies. But I never really bothered running a specific world boss.

This mostly has to do with the reward scheme and the way I play though I guess. You can do all world bosses and the usual you get is some greens blues and a yellow. It never was worth chasing after. Plus if you do find a boss, it’s really easy to tag along as most of the time the next worldboss gets pointed out.

It does made it so I did less worldbosses, in core. And maybe made me think of the world boss event guild item stretching over to all the world bosses. Or something akin to that. Or doing pre events to then realise that the world boss is on a timer and feeling slightly disappointed I forgot that.

On top of them being no challenge no fun zerg 1-spam fest, which I generally avoid regardless.

Well that’s the point, you don’t have to run Dragon Stand either, but if you want to run it, you have to look at a timer, like every other world boss. Or stand there and wait two hours, which might also work.

Vayne.8563:

Well that’s the point, you don’t have to run Dragon Stand either, but if you want to run it, you have to look at a timer, like every other world boss. Or stand there and wait two hours, which might also work.

The reason I mentioned that I never really looked at a timer is, I thought obviously so, that I can ignore worldbosses for the most part. Most rewards are still available even if I don’t play Worldbosses. However, it is very hard to ignore Dragon’s Stand if you want any reward that has remotely something to do with that map’s currency.

Not playing Dragon’s Stand has bigger consequences (Giving up on alot of rewards) than not playing Worldbosses.

To Tie this back to the topic title. I will be very surprised to see another Dragon’s Stand like map. (Without some proper fixes that would make it also nice to play for those who can’t easily follow the schedule. At least.)

To Tie this back to the Future of GW2. I will be very surprised to see a map like Dragon’s Stand that doesn’t address the issues people have with DS.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Well that’s the point, you don’t have to run Dragon Stand either, but if you want to run it, you have to look at a timer, like every other world boss. Or stand there and wait two hours, which might also work.

The reason I mentioned that I never really looked at a timer is, I thought obviously so, that I can ignore worldbosses for the most part. Most rewards are still available even if I don’t play Worldbosses. However, it is very hard to ignore Dragon’s Stand if you want any reward that has remotely something to do with that map’s currency.

Not playing Dragon’s Stand has bigger consequences (Giving up on alot of rewards) than not playing Worldbosses.

To Tie this back to the topic title. I will be very surprised to see another Dragon’s Stand like map. (Without some proper fixes that would make it also nice to play for those who can’t easily follow the schedule. At least.)

To Tie this back to the Future of GW2. I will be very surprised to see a map like Dragon’s Stand that doesn’t address the issues people have with DS.

The map currency in Dragon Stand is crystalline ore. You absolutely don’t have to run the meta to farm it casually or slowly. You only have to run the meta to farm it more quickly, in which case you can look at a timer one time, jot down the hours that it’s up and never have to look at that site again

As I’ve said often, it’s better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.

There are many world bosses in legendary collections. If you want to do those collections, you have to get to those world bosses. The best way to do that is to use a timer site.

Halandir.3609:

• Developer written guides on using LFG

LFG guide and tutorial made by devs would legit solve every single accessibility and toxicity issue in this game. Future can’t come soon enough.

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Well that’s the point, you don’t have to run Dragon Stand either, but if you want to run it, you have to look at a timer, like every other world boss. Or stand there and wait two hours, which might also work.

The reason I mentioned that I never really looked at a timer is, I thought obviously so, that I can ignore worldbosses for the most part. Most rewards are still available even if I don’t play Worldbosses. However, it is very hard to ignore Dragon’s Stand if you want any reward that has remotely something to do with that map’s currency.

Not playing Dragon’s Stand has bigger consequences (Giving up on alot of rewards) than not playing Worldbosses.

To Tie this back to the topic title. I will be very surprised to see another Dragon’s Stand like map. (Without some proper fixes that would make it also nice to play for those who can’t easily follow the schedule. At least.)

To Tie this back to the Future of GW2. I will be very surprised to see a map like Dragon’s Stand that doesn’t address the issues people have with DS.

The map currency in Dragon Stand is crystalline ore. You absolutely don’t have to run the meta to farm it casually or slowly. You only have to run the meta to farm it more quickly, in which case you can look at a timer one time, jot down the hours that it’s up and never have to look at that site again

As I’ve said often, it’s better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.

There are many world bosses in legendary collections. If you want to do those collections, you have to get to those world bosses. The best way to do that is to use a timer site.

Vayne, I agree with you about the timers but he does make a solid point about the difference between the reward structure for the DS meta completion and a world boss in core Tyria.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Long before HoT came out, people complained about the zerker meta forcing people into certain builds. And there have always been people who ignored it and played anyway. The game hasn’t changed.

Yes, it’s horrible to have to go to a timer site, except that this situation existed long before HoT. If you wanted to do world bosses, long before HoT launched, you needed to go to a timer site. If you wanted to do the great jungle wurm or the fire ele or the frozen maw, or the shadow behemoth, it’s been many years and you’ve had to look at a timer site all that time. That changed long before HoT.

I know it’s very fashionable to blame HoT for every ill this game has, but those things changed long long before HoT was released, or even announced. The game has changed, that’s true. Some might even say it evolved.

That’s not entirely true with timer sites to be honest. The HoT Metas and world bosses are a world apart, both in difficulty and style. I never needed a timer site for any of the world bosses. And with the mega server change, they did go on a schedule, which has been years, maybe needed to look at a timer more whenever I needed a specific boss, which is rearely to be honest. Also rewards for worldbosses are barely worth mentioning, while for some of the current metas that is exactly where you get alot of materials.

Dragon’s Stand is worse than the other metas though, most of the rewards are behind a successful run, however… the biggest problem is that it does not even start if you don’t have 15 people. I can’t comment on how difficult it is with 15 people or whichever, though I have no doubt it might as well be possible.

The problem in my opinion is that it’s another hurdle to even start to get the ball rolling. If you can start it and do the events, then you can get some loot from the events as well as a possibility for more people to actually start and attempt to finish the meta. More often than not it’s possible to finish the meta successfully.

It’s really annoying to stand there and realise you need to get 15 players together otherwise you can’t do anything in Dragon’s stand. And I think the game doesn’t need that 15 player minimum to protect people from “failure”. I rather try and fail than not being able to try at all.

I don’t know if it’s possible to complete the meta with only 15 people, but I have been on several maps with 15-20ish people and I’ve never seen it completed with that few. It just doesn’t seem to scale well. Even if by some miracle we can make it through all the camps and champs, we wipe at the blighting towers. I honestly don’t know how 15 people would get all the way through this.

Given the relatively few people I’ve personally seen playing Dragon’s Stand, it would help a lot if the events scaled down to how ever many people were doing them, whether it’s 2 or 200.

Either that, or Anet is going to have to come up with a really great reward that will keep players coming back to these maps once they’ve finished buying everything they want with the currency and have gotten 100% on their own maps.

Vayne.8563:

The map currency in Dragon Stand is crystalline ore. You absolutely don’t have to run the meta to farm it casually or slowly. You only have to run the meta to farm it more quickly, in which case you can look at a timer one time, jot down the hours that it’s up and never have to look at that site again

As I’ve said often, it’s better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.

There are many world bosses in legendary collections. If you want to do those collections, you have to get to those world bosses. The best way to do that is to use a timer site.

I just always look out for what can be improved upon. While there are many workarounds, even in this case, it’s just not an ideal situation.

If I look at the Dragon’s Stand meta, there’s many hindrances that CAN prevent players from enjoying the content in it’s fullest. Saying that players can just ignore the Dragon’s Stand meta completely sounds like insanity. That’s just looking the other way. If you don’t do the content, then there’s no issue at all! Great point… >_>

It seems to me (for many reasons, expressed in many other threads) the new ExP is the last nail.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Well that’s the point, you don’t have to run Dragon Stand either, but if you want to run it, you have to look at a timer, like every other world boss. Or stand there and wait two hours, which might also work.

The reason I mentioned that I never really looked at a timer is, I thought obviously so, that I can ignore worldbosses for the most part. Most rewards are still available even if I don’t play Worldbosses. However, it is very hard to ignore Dragon’s Stand if you want any reward that has remotely something to do with that map’s currency.

Not playing Dragon’s Stand has bigger consequences (Giving up on alot of rewards) than not playing Worldbosses.

To Tie this back to the topic title. I will be very surprised to see another Dragon’s Stand like map. (Without some proper fixes that would make it also nice to play for those who can’t easily follow the schedule. At least.)

To Tie this back to the Future of GW2. I will be very surprised to see a map like Dragon’s Stand that doesn’t address the issues people have with DS.

The map currency in Dragon Stand is crystalline ore. You absolutely don’t have to run the meta to farm it casually or slowly. You only have to run the meta to farm it more quickly, in which case you can look at a timer one time, jot down the hours that it’s up and never have to look at that site again

As I’ve said often, it’s better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.

There are many world bosses in legendary collections. If you want to do those collections, you have to get to those world bosses. The best way to do that is to use a timer site.

Vayne, I agree with you about the timers but he does make a solid point about the difference between the reward structure for the DS meta completion and a world boss in core Tyria.

It’s only a valid point if you don’t need specific world bosses for specific content, that’s my point. Because you can absolutely still slowly acquire crystalline ore without the meta. You can go into a zone, avoid enemies, it’s not that hard, and use machetes with currency from the three other zones to open pods. There are always some pods there. It’s slower, but it’s doable and it’s soloable.

In contrast if I need to kill the fire ele for a precursor collection I can only do that when the fire ele is up. The other options open to me are zero.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Well that’s the point, you don’t have to run Dragon Stand either, but if you want to run it, you have to look at a timer, like every other world boss. Or stand there and wait two hours, which might also work.

The reason I mentioned that I never really looked at a timer is, I thought obviously so, that I can ignore worldbosses for the most part. Most rewards are still available even if I don’t play Worldbosses. However, it is very hard to ignore Dragon’s Stand if you want any reward that has remotely something to do with that map’s currency.

Not playing Dragon’s Stand has bigger consequences (Giving up on alot of rewards) than not playing Worldbosses.

To Tie this back to the topic title. I will be very surprised to see another Dragon’s Stand like map. (Without some proper fixes that would make it also nice to play for those who can’t easily follow the schedule. At least.)

To Tie this back to the Future of GW2. I will be very surprised to see a map like Dragon’s Stand that doesn’t address the issues people have with DS.

The map currency in Dragon Stand is crystalline ore. You absolutely don’t have to run the meta to farm it casually or slowly. You only have to run the meta to farm it more quickly, in which case you can look at a timer one time, jot down the hours that it’s up and never have to look at that site again

As I’ve said often, it’s better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.

There are many world bosses in legendary collections. If you want to do those collections, you have to get to those world bosses. The best way to do that is to use a timer site.

Vayne, I agree with you about the timers but he does make a solid point about the difference between the reward structure for the DS meta completion and a world boss in core Tyria.

It’s only a valid point if you don’t need specific world bosses for specific content, that’s my point. Because you can absolutely still slowly acquire crystalline ore without the meta. You can go into a zone, avoid enemies, it’s not that hard, and use machetes with currency from the three other zones to open pods. There are always some pods there. It’s slower, but it’s doable and it’s soloable.

In contrast if I need to kill the fire ele for a precursor collection I can only do that when the fire ele is up. The other options open to me are zero.

Gating a single specific reward not intended to be universally desirable behind a specific event, such as a precursor collection tied to an event, is very different in my opinion than throttling an entire zone’s reward structure.

Its not that both examples do not call for the use of timers and such, but rather the scale involved.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Well that’s the point, you don’t have to run Dragon Stand either, but if you want to run it, you have to look at a timer, like every other world boss. Or stand there and wait two hours, which might also work.

The reason I mentioned that I never really looked at a timer is, I thought obviously so, that I can ignore worldbosses for the most part. Most rewards are still available even if I don’t play Worldbosses. However, it is very hard to ignore Dragon’s Stand if you want any reward that has remotely something to do with that map’s currency.

Not playing Dragon’s Stand has bigger consequences (Giving up on alot of rewards) than not playing Worldbosses.

To Tie this back to the topic title. I will be very surprised to see another Dragon’s Stand like map. (Without some proper fixes that would make it also nice to play for those who can’t easily follow the schedule. At least.)

To Tie this back to the Future of GW2. I will be very surprised to see a map like Dragon’s Stand that doesn’t address the issues people have with DS.

The map currency in Dragon Stand is crystalline ore. You absolutely don’t have to run the meta to farm it casually or slowly. You only have to run the meta to farm it more quickly, in which case you can look at a timer one time, jot down the hours that it’s up and never have to look at that site again

As I’ve said often, it’s better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.

There are many world bosses in legendary collections. If you want to do those collections, you have to get to those world bosses. The best way to do that is to use a timer site.

Vayne, I agree with you about the timers but he does make a solid point about the difference between the reward structure for the DS meta completion and a world boss in core Tyria.

It’s only a valid point if you don’t need specific world bosses for specific content, that’s my point. Because you can absolutely still slowly acquire crystalline ore without the meta. You can go into a zone, avoid enemies, it’s not that hard, and use machetes with currency from the three other zones to open pods. There are always some pods there. It’s slower, but it’s doable and it’s soloable.

In contrast if I need to kill the fire ele for a precursor collection I can only do that when the fire ele is up. The other options open to me are zero.

Gating a single specific reward not intended to be universally desirable behind a specific event, such as a precursor collection tied to an event, is very different in my opinion than throttling an entire zone’s reward structure.

Its not that both examples do not call for the use of timers and such, but rather the scale involved.

You can play this entire game without ever completing Dragon Stand, including getting the currency from that map. If you MUST complete the map, you must wait for the event. The same is true, to some degree, if you want to complete the Silverwaste maps since one of the POIs is in the maze. You can stand around forever and hope to get into a map that does it, or you can use LFG to get that single point of interest.

There’s nothing really gated here, except the event itself which is on a timer, and the map completion, which requires the event to be finished.

In theory, you would have to do Dragon Stand one single time to have all four points of interest, four hero points and the vista you can only get by finishing the event. Everything else in that zone can be attained when the map is empty.

The point remains, though, you don’t have to complete that map unless you’re working on a HOT legendary.

Is it really so hard to go to a timer site one single time and write down the times of the event, so you know when to show? Your other option without a timer site, is to keep checking LFG reguarly until the squad listings come up. Not a fool proof solution but better than nothing.

LFG is in the game and it’s part of the game. It’s a tool in the game to help you find groups. Considering that event is the big big meta, it’s not unreasonable to think you might have trouble soloing it.

The refusal of people to do even something quite easy to get to the content they want to do is completely baffling to me.

It’s like saying it’s dark in here and refusing to turn on the light because the light switch is across the room and badly designed. Sure it’s a bit inconvenient, but not nearly as inconvenient as sitting in the dark.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I believe you are mistaken. What was promised about choices was delivered. There was nothing about not innovating (changing) the way Stories functioned in the future.

Come on now, stop defending the fact that they have abandoned many great and promising game mechanics that would have made for a lot more variety and fun.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

We have new Diving content with every Release. If you didn’t take advantage of swimming in Bitterfrost, that was your loss.

I did not miss out on anything, but that was one tiny bit in a long time. I am talking about real underwater adventures, not some boring diving and collecting of orbs.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I believe you stated another game was going to be your focus; but you were only gone a week. Did it not work out for you?

Best of luck on your gaming adventures.

I never stated anything like that, I merely said I would go look into other options. I never said I wouldn’t check out the last episode of LWS3. Also, I don’t recall being accountable to you about my abscence times from GW. What I criticized back then I still criticize (and am glad that many others do, too) and can only hope that future content will make up for it.

Ashantara.8731:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I believe you are mistaken. What was promised about choices was delivered. There was nothing about not innovating (changing) the way Stories functioned in the future.

Come on now, stop defending the fact that they have abandoned many great and promising game mechanics that would have made for a lot more variety and fun.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

We have new Diving content with every Release. If you didn’t take advantage of swimming in Bitterfrost, that was your loss.

I did not miss out on anything, but that was one tiny bit in a long time. I am talking about real underwater adventures, not some boring diving and collecting of orbs.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I believe you stated another game was going to be your focus; but you were only gone a week. Did it not work out for you?

Best of luck on your gaming adventures.

I never stated anything like that, I merely said I would go look into other options. I never said I wouldn’t check out the last episode of LWS3. Also, I don’t recall being accountable to you about my abscence times from GW. What I criticized back then I still criticize (and am glad that many others do, too) and can only hope that future content will make up for it.

The problem isn’t how many people are critizing, compared to how many people really enjoy it and don’t post here, because why would you? You’re in game enjoying it.

You see, there have been times, a lot of times, when a very vocal group of people complain on forums, and Anet makes changes based on those people only to lose a bunch of other people.

Part of the reason HoT played out the way it did was because there was tons of people complaining that the game wasn’t challenging enough. So they made changes to the game based on that and now you have a different group of people who feel it’s too challenging/perplexing/time consuming/arcady.

The problem is, I don’t see enough people complaining to make it a quorum. And I know there are plenty of people who do enjoy the changes.

So anyone can be happy with the fact that others agree with them, but it doesn’t guarantee some kind of majority.

And that’s the problem. If Anet keeps changing the game back and forth, I’m not sure how many people will end up happy.

HoT is a success story. It has succeeded in dividing the community.

Some people love it and some people hate it…. Does anyone truly have the numbers on either side? Is there an official record???

Because of this division, I think Anet is going to be kitten ed if they do and kitten ed if they don’t going forward…… and that applies for either side

I already see posts claiming PoF has abandoned HoT while I also have seen other posts claiming it is too much like HoT……… kitten ed if they do kitten ed if they don’t

Dashingsteel.3410:

HoT is a success story. It has succeeded in dividing the community.

Some people love it and some people hate it…. Does anyone truly have the numbers on either side? Is there an official record???

Because of this division, I think Anet is going to be kitten ed if they do and kitten ed if they don’t going forward…… and that applies for either side

I already see posts claiming PoF has abandoned HoT while I also have seen other posts claiming it is too much like HoT……… kitten ed if they do kitten ed if they don’t

I think thats mostly a forum thing. The forums tend to be very black and white at times. People complain with alot of superlatives and over-exaggeration which in turn gets rebuked with similar counters.

Which might be why reddit is preferred by many. The extreme comments get up and downvoted and the value end up somewhere in the middle. And the more pressing matters get upvoted enough if its really an issue.