Guild Wars 2

Dejavu.2349:

It comes down to this: the Guild Hall facet of HoT is completely punitive for small guilds. There really is no point in discussion because it’s simply true – no matter how you swing it.

It is punitive but in my opinion it is how it should be.

maddoctor.2738:

And that’s what I’ve been saying about suggestions like this, it’s the most unfair thing EVER, far worse than the current system. If a tier 1 guild has 50 people cap and tier 2 has a 100 people cap, those first 50 people would have to pay the costs of 100 people to increase their tier to tier 2! Effectively those 50 people will pay DOUBLE the price!

But it’s totally fair for 10 people to pay as much as 500? Right.

To the people who complain about small guilds wanting the big halls for cheap: We’d gladly take smaller halls that are cheaper to upgrade, but it’s even more unlikely that anet will spend resources on making new maps for us than it is that they reduce the costs of upgrades and/or introduce tiers. So that’s why our focus is on arguing for the introduction of guild hall tiers.

Honestly, we don’t need big pools, we just want to be given the opportunity to earn our upgrades back (as ridiculous as it is that we even need to do that) without having to spend the next year farming materials instead of playing the game.

20 member guild with 10 active members
We just unlocked the last building upgrade
One man guilds are not guilds.

Kulvar.1239:

20 member guild with 10 active members
We just unlocked the last building upgrade
One man guilds are not guilds.

This means nothing to me without more information.
Exactly what upgrades do you have open? I’m genuinely curious – not trying to be snarky. The last upgrade (Weaponsmith 2, for the Market, for instance) for what buildings?

Or do you mean you’ve just opened up all your buildings (which is easy-peasy by my standards)?

And did anyone put in any real cash?

Dejavu.2349:

Kulvar.1239:

20 member guild with 10 active members
We just unlocked the last building upgrade
One man guilds are not guilds.

This means nothing to me without more information.
Exactly what upgrades do you have open? I’m genuinely curious – not trying to be snarky. The last upgrade (Weaponsmith 2, for the Market, for instance) for what buildings?

Or do you mean you’ve just opened up all your buildings (which is easy-peasy by my standards)?

And did anyone put in any real cash?

And more: did you recruit/tax/kick people to build up? Did you spend 3 full years farming up the mats (if so, new players won’t be building halls for a while)? Was your guild much bigger before you finished the hall? Did you blackmail many people? Did you hire your guild out as a mercenary band in WvW for mats and gold? Did you find a secret way to use thieves to loot other guild hall banks?

To list a few questions, anyhow. =P

Dejavu.2349:

Kulvar.1239:

20 member guild with 10 active members
We just unlocked the last building upgrade
One man guilds are not guilds.

This means nothing to me without more information.
Exactly what upgrades do you have open? I’m genuinely curious – not trying to be snarky. The last upgrade (Weaponsmith 2, for the Market, for instance) for what buildings?

Or do you mean you’ve just opened up all your buildings (which is easy-peasy by my standards)?

And did anyone put in any real cash?

Probably means finished the last building, not the last building upgrade.

The last upgrade requires guild level 40 which I think only one or two guilds have reached at this point.

Draygo.9473:

Dejavu.2349:

Kulvar.1239:

20 member guild with 10 active members
We just unlocked the last building upgrade
One man guilds are not guilds.

This means nothing to me without more information.
Exactly what upgrades do you have open? I’m genuinely curious – not trying to be snarky. The last upgrade (Weaponsmith 2, for the Market, for instance) for what buildings?

Or do you mean you’ve just opened up all your buildings (which is easy-peasy by my standards)?

And did anyone put in any real cash?

Probably means finished the last building, not the last building upgrade.

The last upgrade requires guild level 40 which I think only one or two guilds have reached at this point.

Something to add about the level 40, it isn’t the max level, just the highest level requirement to for the upgrades. A fully upgraded guild hall easily exceed level 40.

I just think if you’re going to come into a thread about how long it would take a small guild to clear a guild hall saying you’ve just unlocked the last building upgrade within a couple of months, it’d be nice to know exactly what you mean and how you did it. Because that type of information would be relevant and maybe mind-changing.

In conversing with you guys, I’ve basically talked myself out of building a guild hall for my guild. As of right now, I have no plans to even bother…. because I’m right: It’s too punitive and will take too long to complete. I’m still kitten and love this game less — a lot less, but right now, I don’t have a better game to play. I’m hoping a better standby emerges, so when I get done with the next time-sink game, I have something other than a game that gives me the middle finger to go back to.

Seriously buy some gems and buy the mats with them, take that like a long term investment and ask your family to divide the cost.

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

^ And you wonder why he can’t stand the rest of the community?

His argument is a strawman, that isn’t what those disenfranchised small guild members are upset about, they’re upset because pre-HOT they worked and unlocked many perks for their small guild that HOT simply took away from them and gated them behind the GH many small guilds will never get.

If GW2 had started out with this mechanism then fine, clearly anyone not wanting to put up with large guild drama and having their access to such content at the whim of the leader would not have got used to having it, but GW2 gave them that ability which Anet then moved behind a paywall and gates.

Please stop asking for guild hall crafting to be weighted depending on the size of the guild. Haven’t you all realised yet that ANet are masters at giving us what we ask for without giving us what we wanted?

I foresee weighting in the future with the current requirements being the baseline for up to a 50 member guild. A 500 member guild would then need 10 times the current quantities.

Anything else you’d like them to fix while they’re at it?

Kerin.9125:

His argument is a strawman, that isn’t what those disenfranchised small guild members are upset about, they’re upset because pre-HOT they worked and unlocked many perks for their small guild that HOT simply took away from them and gated them behind the GH many small guilds will never get.

If GW2 had started out with this mechanism then fine, clearly anyone not wanting to put up with large guild drama and having their access to such content at the whim of the leader would not have got used to having it, but GW2 gave them that ability which Anet then moved behind a paywall and gates.

Yep.

Totally ridiculous to remove access to things we earned and put them behind huge mat/pay walls. “Oh you want your banners? Level a scribe, you scrub. And the requisite guild hall buildings and upgrades, too. What you did in the past and the precedent we set are no longer important. F off small guilds – especially small WvW guilds” -Anet

But then I looked at the mats for each upgrade through the end and went ballistic. With good reason. Eventually, I decided just to F it all. I no longer care about this game – It’s simply what I’m doing until something else comes out – the bar for that something else has been lowered significantly with the HoT changes. I’m actually considering Black Desert now (Starting the 16th if you Beta-Qualify/Buy), which I wasn’t before. I’m required to play Star Citizen due to Spouse Threat. So… I have new things incoming. When I’m done with those, I’ll check back in with GW2 and the state of Guild Halls. If it hasn’t changed by then, I’ll look to something else. I’m just being honest here… Anet lost my respect and their top rank in my gaming repertoire. They’re now somewhere in the middle. Lucky for them (cause I’m still giving them money), I’m kind of bored of the other games installed on my box, so I’m alternating between GW2 and Warframe… for another week or so.

BTW, I think people looking for scaling should make their own thread.

If I had a large guild and scaling were an option I think the best option for me would be to make a smaller sister guild, get a hall and have the larger guild donate items to build the smaller guilds hall until completed. Then just move everyone.

How could this be prevented? It would be an irresistable loop hole for everyone involved so I don’t see how scaling could work. The only way I can see it working is if they added a high cost to maintain the hall like coin+influence based on the level of development. And i guarantee you the complaints from everyone would be ten-fold more than the amount we have now if that happened.

Dejavu.2349:

Kerin.9125:

His argument is a strawman, that isn’t what those disenfranchised small guild members are upset about, they’re upset because pre-HOT they worked and unlocked many perks for their small guild that HOT simply took away from them and gated them behind the GH many small guilds will never get.

If GW2 had started out with this mechanism then fine, clearly anyone not wanting to put up with large guild drama and having their access to such content at the whim of the leader would not have got used to having it, but GW2 gave them that ability which Anet then moved behind a paywall and gates.

Yep.

Totally ridiculous to remove access to things we earned and put them behind huge mat/pay walls. “Oh you want your banners? Level a scribe, you scrub. And the requisite guild hall buildings and upgrades, too. What you did in the past and the precedent we set are no longer important. F off small guilds – especially small WvW guilds” -Anet

But then I looked at the mats for each upgrade through the end and went ballistic. With good reason. Eventually, I decided just to F it all. I no longer care about this game – It’s simply what I’m doing until something else comes out – the bar for that something else has been lowered significantly with the HoT changes. I’m actually considering Black Desert now (Starting the 16th if you Beta-Qualify/Buy), which I wasn’t before. I’m required to play Star Citizen due to Spouse Threat. So… I have new things incoming. When I’m done with those, I’ll check back in with GW2 and the state of Guild Halls. If it hasn’t changed by then, I’ll look to something else. I’m just being honest here… Anet lost my respect and their top rank in my gaming repertoire. They’re now somewhere in the middle. Lucky for them (cause I’m still giving them money), I’m kind of bored of the other games installed on my box, so I’m alternating between GW2 and Warframe… for another week or so.

BTW, I think people looking for scaling should make their own thread.

Well… Rainbow Six came out, that’s where I am at the moment! xD

Quite a lot of things from the expansion didn’t really add to or click with Guild Wars 2 gameplay. I honestly think they’d have had better reception if they’d purely added like… twenty new maps (and some story pieces) with no new mechanics and features. I’m waiting out the changes now until things smooth out a bit… was honestly hoping to get back fully into the game when HoT launched.

This is a bit of a tangent, I guess, but I’m really confused about why there’s only one profession that is of any use to a guild hall. Why is a weaponsmith/armorer useless in a guild’s hall? It’s cheaper for all involved to buy exotics on the trading post, and ascendeds aren’t transferrable. I wrote a thread related to this issue here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-bound-Craftable-Items/page/2#post5795093

smiling.9028:

If I had a large guild and scaling were an option I think the best option for me would be to make a smaller sister guild, get a hall and have the larger guild donate items to build the smaller guilds hall until completed. Then just move everyone.

How could this be prevented? It would be an irresistable loop hole for everyone involved so I don’t see how scaling could work. The only way I can see it working is if they added a high cost to maintain the hall like coin+influence based on the level of development. And i guarantee you the complaints from everyone would be ten-fold more than the amount we have now if that happened.

Price-scaling’s always been a bad idea. I really want something viable for smaller guilds like mine, but I’ve opposed the idea of scaling halls like that since I first saw it suggested… it’s way, way, way too exploitable. Big guilds would simply (as you said) start small guilds and build them fully before moving everyone over – and it’d be a dirt-cheap price for a big guild.

Nope, I’d prefer scaled services or specialized halls – such as Arena-only halls or Tavern-only halls or something like that, where upgrades are cheaper but more focused, or where they can only reach a certain level, and the guild would have to start again if they wanted a different focus or an all-rounder or a more upgradable hall. Could big guilds exploit focused halls? Possibly. If they really want to be swapping guild representation all day. But little sister-guilds wouldn’t carry the same prestige as a single, fully-upgraded hall. Think exotic lvl 80 equipment -> legendary equipment; they both provide very similar stats, but while exotic is dirt-cheap, legendary is more flexible and (for most people) will take months or even years to obtain.

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

Agreed, I understand some of what the Post is complaining even the Excel table content showed some very good info that the Devs can use to address this, about but this is getting tiresome… I enjoy the forums but THIS forum is getting way to toxic… I think im taking a break for this place… Even if its constructive criticism its completely swallow by this type of players… no offence intended but the community managers need to do something about this players… By the Six, If they hate it so much why do they even play it or post in the forums…now that’s MY question?

All is happening,is our fault.We should know moment they announced “free to play” game,its going to be like this.

They sold us how getting no reward for whatever you do,is something cool and unique.

They remove something which is main part of every mmo(reward for your effort),and they call it unique?

People who defend Arena Net in things like this,they never played other mmo,and they do not know what mmo means.They think how not getting item worth over 5 gold in 2 years is cool,just because Arena Net said so.

We should know,in game,in which company rely on “micro” transactions,everything is going to be locked behind wallet(for casuals)

I am really surprised they didn’t release yet legendary items for $,but looking at situation now,that’s something awaiting for us.

Its out fault,because we did not boycott.We should ask for money back,and flood forums.They would fix things with the speed of light.

This kind of behavior is unacceptable.They can’t respond on topics,and questions,but they can ban you,and mark your post and delete it as soon as you refresh page.

Dark future is around the corner.With their behavior,and way how things are done,i wouldn’t be surprised if they start selling gold to players,by whispering us in game,as those bots do.

Who knows,how many of those bots,works for Arena Net already…

They do not add armors,weapons or rewarding us with loot,because they expecting us to open wallets and ask dear Colin and Soesbe,how much do you want for that outfit and glider…

Again,its our fault,because we let them treat us(and because of us they have food on the table)like garbage.

Where in the world,you have company,if you complain on something,and if you ask something,you getting totally ignored by employers/owner of that company?

I paid money for this,and i demand Colin in person to talk to me…its way how things should be done.They do not respect our money nor us.

It’s not exactly fair to blame the people that came due to the pricing changes. I was one of them and bought the expansion. The problem now is ArenaNet got me to buy the game but they’re going to have to fix it to get me to cover what a subscription normally would pay for.

Right now I’m hardly playing at all so I have zero need for anything on the cash shop, so… $50 for the next 2-3 years? Sounds like a terrible payout for the company.

They steered gold/mat/time/sink into the wrong place. Sure make guild halls a challenge but they are a straight up resource sink/work simulator for lack of other options.

Player housing should be easy, not a kitten grind. Grind out your sword of eternal beer breath or whatever.

As much as people want to QQ about QQ this thread has a valid point and Anet need to wake up.

People are leaving this game, not doom and gloom forum kitten, but actual in game observation, subjective en masse.

fireflyry.7023:

People are leaving this game, not doom and gloom forum kitten, but actual in game observation, subjective en masse.

Given the mega-server tech completely hides any idea of what the server pops are, and seeing as how Anet like everyone (even Blizzard from now on) don’t publish player numbers then this assertion of yours has zero facts to back it up.

Kerin.9125:

fireflyry.7023:

People are leaving this game, not doom and gloom forum kitten, but actual in game observation, subjective en masse.

Given the mega-server tech completely hides any idea of what the server pops are, and seeing as how Anet like everyone (even Blizzard from now on) don’t publish player numbers then this assertion of yours has zero facts to back it up.

That’s why I used the term subjective en masse based on little more than in-game observation.

Read more.

And my comment about the mega-server tech answered you, your “in game observation” is basless since you can never have any idea how many exist apart from those in your particular map.

BTW, “subjective” and “actual” are contradictory.

Be literate more.

Yuppers your right.kk.Thx

HoT coupled with all the nerfs and shameless cash grabbing really turned me off GW. I registered with Blade & Soul and have been selected for the next beta testing which starts tomorrow and runs through to Monday. I also bought Black Desert and their beta testing starts next Wednesday and runs till the following Tuesday I think. By then Wintersday will be running which should carry me close to the Blade & Soul release date. On that date I might end my 10 year love affair with GW, a sad and yet exciting day.

And no, you can’t have my stuff as I will be back from time to time.

That’s kinda my buzz too.

HoT has me looking elsewhere and I’ve never thought like that since 2005 when Prophecies dropped. Love this franchise but it’s turning into a game I just don’t enjoy much anymore.

Grindwars 2 and gated content? No thx.

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, the numbers offer an advantage on its own. No more advantages are needed. Enforcing artificial ones just because devs can’t wrap their minds about the fact that small guilds exist too is a bad design.

So much in this game is less than optimally designed and/or is totally tone deaf.

There, I’ve said it.

I don’t know if the main issue is the devs, or the management (per the glassdoor reviews), or too much listening to the wrong kind of players (definitely happening), or just the current state of the industry/gamemode, in general?

After all, WoW has gone very downhill, recently, too…

But, something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark.

Kerin.9125:

And my comment about the mega-server tech answered you, your “in game observation” is basless since you can never have any idea how many exist apart from those in your particular map.

Well no, you’d know if your friends and acquaintances were leaving, for example, wouldn’t you?

…and if enough of them left, it would hardly be a massive leap of logic to assume that that was probably fairly typical.

Obviously, it could be a statistical blip, but that is fairly unlikely.

The whole mega server technology thing might cover random strangers leaving; but it, obviously, wouldn’t stop you noticing the people on your friends list no longer logging on.

Kulvar.1239:

One man guilds are not guilds.

Then they shouldn’t have let me make a guild, at all.

Nothing told me, when I made my guild pre-HoT, that “one man guilds are not guilds”.

So, them then switching on people like me is simply not fair.

Whatever your, totally personal, opinions on small guilds may be…

Even now, you can make a guild on your own – you just can’t advance it, in any way.

If they shared your view, surely they would set a minimum number of founding members and/or add a warning that any progression would require a minimum number of players?

They haven’t done either.

Not that I think that would make people feel any better – but, it would confirm that they agreed with people like you.

Then people could make their decisions re. whether playing a game, that agreed with people like you, was their cup of tea.

Nails in coffins, Anet, nails in coffins…

kuritsutian.2987:

It is punitive but in my opinion it is how it should be.

Unbelievable.

I could say more, to this, but I would probably be banned.

pdavis.8031:

I get that you are frustrated with the inability to be able to do much with Guild Halls being of a small guild. However, reading through this post, it seems that you are most upset by the fact that some minor things (i.e. banners) were removed, and still more is locked behind either guild levels and/or a massive mat collection.

You, and others who have posted either in here or other similar threads, seem to be under the impression that the devs just came up with how Guild Halls function, the effort and time needed, and so on, simply because they were having a bad hair day, it was Tuesday in Seattle, or they just don’t care/out of touch.

Fortunately this isn’t the case. Many of the functionality and features we see in guild halls today are specifically what players wanted. They said they wanted upgrades to take time and effort. They wanted them to be gated. They wanted a place to choose where they can easily and instantly travel to from anywhere in the game. They even made many suggestions about using mats to upgrade, and that the amounts and costs should be a deterrent to super guilds from just being able to buy their way to the top.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Guild-Halls/first

If you want to be angry at anybody. Be angry at them. Just glancing over the thread, you can see that many of the things suggested were in fact implemented. The devs just gave the players what they asked for. But it turns out the players in general don’t know what they heck they want.

No, people know what THEY want.

Problem is, a minority of them, continually, try to impose what they alone want, onto the majority and games companies these days seem to just roll over immediately and, passively, oblige.

People ask for this stuff, either because they don’t fully comprehend the unintended consequences of their requests; or because (even more alarmingly) they actually like the idea of removing basic stuff from other people.

In this case, stuff that people have already worked for and acquired.

It is still the games company’s fault, because it is their job to sort the wheat from the chaff, to work out what is a reasonable (and not totally selfish) request and to foresee any unintended consequences.

If they can’t, or won’t, do that, anymore, they are failing us all, really badly and do not deserve our custom.

Tigaseye.2047:

No, people know what THEY want.

Problem is, a minority of them, continually, try to impose what they alone want, onto the majority and games companies these days seem to just roll over immediately and, passively, oblige.

People ask for this stuff, either because they don’t fully comprehend the unintended consequences of their requests; or because (even more alarmingly) they actually like the idea of removing basic stuff from other people.

In this case, stuff that people have already worked for and acquired.

It is still the games company’s fault, because it is their job to sort the wheat from the chaff, to work out what is a reasonable (and not totally selfish) request and to foresee any unintended consequences.

If they can’t, or won’t, do that, anymore, they are failing us all, really badly and do not deserve our custom.

So kind of what you are doing? A minority who wants things their way? (i.e. easier upgrades for small guilds). As one who is opposed to having gaming companies “roll over” for the vocal minority, it appears that you want them to “roll over” for you, and those you agree with.

I don’t know, but to me at least, it seems a bit odd to criticize a company because they cater to minorities, yet want them to cater to you. Just sayin’

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

+1 to you good sir.

Ok, to Dejavu, the OP… You have some loops holes in your reasoning.

You say you are blocked out of doing all the content offered in HoT and the game. I’m sorry but with 3 people as a “GUILD” , that is not a guild. That is a team of 3. So don’t label yourselves as a guild and feel entitled to be able to do all content. This has been your choice and doing.

Why focus on the guild halls being the issue. You have always been locked out of doing Guild Missions pre-HoT; you’ve never been able to complete most if not all guild missions with just 3 people. I think you’re playing the wrong game here. If you want to be able to do everything on your own, go play a single player game if you don’t like people that much.

I have no sympathy for your complaints. You picked the wrong game and are blaming the developer for incorporating long-term (BUT OPTIONAL) grind for endgame goals…. in an MMO. This game w/ HoT is no where near still the amount of grind in other MMOs where leveling literally takes a lifetime.

Go play a different game. /end rant.