Guild Wars 2

Hi guys

So I was recently thinking about how Anet referenced the Necromancers in our story (Trahearne and Marjory) and said that them getting greatswords was indeed a setup to revealing the new specialization.

I happened to be browsing the key storyline characters when I realised that Taimi is an Engineer. Not only that, but much like Marjory and Trahearne, Taimi fights with unique mechanics not yet available to others. That is, she is constantly tinkering with and utilizing her Golem, Scruffy, because she is physically unable to enter combat herself.

Now I know, this is something many Asura do, and is also something that players can do if they choose to use the Asura Elite skills, but it got me thinking that it wouldn’t be too much of s stretch to expand on this and make Golemancer a future specialization for Engineers.

What do you think?

Would not make sense for anything but an Asura, so no.

golemancer is an asura that builds golems, regardless of profession. zojja is an elementalist and a golemancer, for example. snaff had zero combat abilities, but he was a golemancer. at least two asura storylines show your character building golems (or with a history of building golems), regardless of what profession you choose.

and any non-asura would be out of luck.

the easiest way to make a golemancer is “equip your asura racial elite. any of them, really”.

With what I’ve been seeing in Divinity’s Reach lately, I reckon it’ll be Toy Golemancer :p

Well, yes and no. Keep in mind Scarlet’s… aptitude for such things.

While it may not be called Golemancer (as Golem generally refers to Asuran Magitech constructs) A “tinkerer” or “mechanic” spec doesn’t seem too far fetched. Essentially an engineer more focused on the upkeep of mobile assault hardware/vehicles and melee attacks rather than the base engineer’s stationary hardware/ranged attacks.

Having a version of the asuran battlesuit summon that is a class skill (and thus, does not totally suck as racials are designed to suck in comparison) Seems a natural fit, as do more Wearable or mobile augments (like the drones seen in the trailer) for this kind of spec.

After all, What is a Charr tank, Pact Heli, or other such device if not a slightly different looking golem?

why call it golemancer… or make it anything like golemancers? Why not an exo pilot?

http://www.guildwars2-pets.com/images/Miniatures/Pictures/Masterwork/Dredge%20Mining%20Suit.jpg

remember these? Those are exo suits…means its not far out…especially not for charr… and engi tech is charr tech. Needless to say there are golems with co(ck)pits (spellcheck is a meanie). Why not make a specialisation that actually uses golem\exo suits sorta like kits? A sort of “mix” between ranger and engi basically. You choose one suit you can call and dismiss and either let it fight like a pet\minion or pilot it and have it replace your skills and attacks with the suits abilities…almost like those asura elites. Id say this would be a blast to play, specially if done right. You can use the suit to soak aggro and range attack from behind or go in with the suit yourself and unleash the wrath of machines upon your enemies. Id play it

PopeUrban.2578:

Well, yes and no. Keep in mind Scarlet’s… aptitude for such things.

While it may not be called Golemancer (as Golem generally refers to Asuran Magitech constructs) A “tinkerer” or “mechanic” spec doesn’t seem too far fetched. Essentially an engineer more focused on the upkeep of mobile assault hardware/vehicles and melee attacks rather than the base engineer’s stationary hardware/ranged attacks.

Having a version of the asuran battlesuit summon that is a class skill (and thus, does not totally suck as racials are designed to suck in comparison) Seems a natural fit, as do more Wearable or mobile augments (like the drones seen in the trailer) for this kind of spec.

After all, What is a Charr tank, Pact Heli, or other such device if not a slightly different looking golem?

You’ve made some really excellent points in here. I hadn’t considered the other in-game vehicles from this perspective

PopeUrban.2578:

Well, yes and no. Keep in mind Scarlet’s… aptitude for such things.

While it may not be called Golemancer (as Golem generally refers to Asuran Magitech constructs) A “tinkerer” or “mechanic” spec doesn’t seem too far fetched. Essentially an engineer more focused on the upkeep of mobile assault hardware/vehicles and melee attacks rather than the base engineer’s stationary hardware/ranged attacks.

Having a version of the asuran battlesuit summon that is a class skill (and thus, does not totally suck as racials are designed to suck in comparison) Seems a natural fit, as do more Wearable or mobile augments (like the drones seen in the trailer) for this kind of spec.

After all, What is a Charr tank, Pact Heli, or other such device if not a slightly different looking golem?

What you describe is probably what we’re going to get.

To answer the last question, and point out the error of the first statement, though. Everything.

Golemancy is magic that causes inanimate materials to bind together and maintain some sort of programmable sentience. When defeated the component parts which are not actually held together by anything but magic simply crumble away from the core.

What Scarlet did was play with clockwork, which is actual machinery with gears and screws. Everything has to be held together precisely and magic is not a key component in construction.

Golemancy is the unique province of Asuras. It is high tech magic, which any and all Asura, regardless of profession, can accomplish. Scarlet did not do golemancy. If she did she probably wouldn’t have bothered usurping the watchwork knights. Scarlet was an Engineer, she tinkered, and while she did use magic her province was more substantial, physical tools and results.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Would not make sense for anything but an Asura, so no.

BrunoBRS.5178:

golemancer is an asura that builds golems, regardless of profession.

I didn’t even play GW1 and I absolutely know that the dwarves had golems an entire age of the world before the first Asura walked Tyria. So they are most definitely not strictly Asuran. Even in the present age every playable race but one has or previously had some form of semi autonomous mechanical/magical construct, by all definitions a golem.

Humans have the Watchknights, not to mention Uzolan, a human golemancer.
Charr have the Effigies, as well as various other automated turrets and vehicles
Asura, obviously, have golems.
Sylvari have the Fern Hounds, Sylvan Hounds, and seed turrets.

Conncept.7638:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Would not make sense for anything but an Asura, so no.

BrunoBRS.5178:

golemancer is an asura that builds golems, regardless of profession.

I didn’t even play GW1 and I absolutely know that the dwarves had golems an entire age of the world before the first Asura walked Tyria. So they are most definitely not strictly Asuran. Even in the present age every playable race but one has or previously had some form of semi autonomous mechanical/magical construct, by all definitions a golem.

Humans have the Watchknights, not to mention Uzolan, a human golemancer.
Charr have the Effigies, as well as various other automated turrets and vehicles
Asura, obviously, have golems.
Sylvari have the Fern Hounds, Sylvan Hounds, and seed turrets.

first, hounds are no more constructs than the sylvaris. neither are the seed turrets, they’re plants.

second, in GW lingo, golems are the asura magitech robots. any other kind of robot or construct isn’t a golem, which is why they have other names.

plus, i’m pretty sure OP is talking about asura golems, since he mentions taimi as his reasoning.

also, the guild wars wiki for you: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Golem_%28disambiguation%29

so yes, golems are very much an asura thing, by definition.

BrunoBRS.5178:

also, the guild wars wiki for you: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Golem_%28disambiguation%29

so yes, golems are very much an asura thing, by definition.

Yes, because the wiki is more accurate than the game. But even if you want to go by the wiki, what does that make this guy? Or this dwarven made guy? Or how ’bout this dwarven made guy? Or this guy? Or that guy? Or this norn and asura made golem? Or maybe that same page of the wiki you gave me which leads to all of the above and classifies golems as “an animated anthropomorphic being (sometimes sentient), created entirely from essentially inanimate matter” regardless of who they are made by?

Golems are exclusively Asuran as guns and explosives are exclusively Charr. They are strongly associated with them, but are neither first nor solely created by them.

PS: Also, the wiki and the single in game text on the salad hounds are either incorrect or retconned lore, because there is an area of the game where you see them being grown and raised. And being alive, does not disqualify as being a magical construct, golems are made from inanimate matter, not necessarily dead matter.

Conncept.7638:

BrunoBRS.5178:

also, the guild wars wiki for you: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Golem_%28disambiguation%29

so yes, golems are very much an asura thing, by definition.

Yes, because the wiki is more accurate than the game. But even if you want to go by the wiki, what does that make this guy? Or this dwarven made guy? Or how ’bout this dwarven made guy? Or this guy? Or that guy? Or this norn and asura made golem? Or maybe that same page of the wiki you gave me which leads to all of the above and classifies golems as “an animated anthropomorphic being (sometimes sentient), created entirely from essentially inanimate matter” regardless of who they are made by?

Golems are exclusively Asuran as guns and explosives are exclusively Charr. They are strongly associated with them, but are neither first nor solely created by them.

PS: Also, the wiki and the single in game text on the salad hounds are either incorrect or retconned lore, because there is an area of the game where you see them being grown and raised. And being alive, does not disqualify as being a magical construct, golems are made from inanimate matter, not necessarily dead matter.

First was a necromantic construct, the product of necromancy, not golemancy. The next is apparently a location. The next is a robot built with gears and bolt and has nothing to do with golemancy. The next is a elemental, which is a construct of geomancy, not golemancy. The next appears to be necromancy again. The next is Golemancy designed by an Asura Golemancer. I assume that Eir’s part in the production was due to her legendary sculpting prowess, she made the parts, but he designed and animated them.

When we talk about golems in the context of GW2 we are talking about Asura golems. When we talk about golemancy we are talking about the exclusive bounds of Asura because they’re the only golemancers.

The dwarves were not Golemancers, they were engineers and roboticists. The Sylvari are not Golemancers, they’re Sylvari and do Sylvari things. The Charr are not Golemancers, they’re engineers. The Dredge are not Golemancers, they’re engineers and roboticists. Humans are not Golemancers, they’re engineers and clockwork tinkers. The Centaurs are not Golemancers, they’re geomancers. Only Asura are Golemancers.

Kal Spiro.9745:

First was a necromantic construct, the product of necromancy, not golemancy. The next is apparently a location. The next is a robot built with gears and bolt and has nothing to do with golemancy. The next is a elemental, which is a construct of geomancy, not golemancy. The next appears to be necromancy again. The next is Golemancy designed by an Asura Golemancy. I assume that Eir’s part in the production was due to her legendary sculpting prowess, she made the parts, but he designed and animated them.

When we talk about golems in the context of GW2 we are talking about Asura golems. When we talk about golemancy we are talking about the exclusive bounds of Asura because they’re the only golemancers.

Well that is just laughably hypocritical, you are the one who brought GW1 lore in to this, in which Golems are not solely asuran as per the sources you yourself cited. I listed three dwarven golems on that wiki, one of which, by the instance it appears in, is factually older than any asuran golem we know of. And ‘geomancy’, unless you are talking about the GW2 elementalist sigil, appears nowhere in GW1 or GW2 lore, so nothing is a result of it.

What you are claiming is contrary to all lore within and without the game. Cling to whatever opinion you like, dismiss and accept whatever information you want, fact will not be subject to your interpretation or conception, and therefore you are still incorrect.

EDIT: Whoops, not the same poster, eh whatever, still applies.

It’s not a golem, it is a construct. It is also irrelevant to this thread because as per the OP we’re talking about Golemancy. If it wasn’t a construct of Golemancy, how is it relevant? It’s a robot, nothing else.

Golemancy is a magical discipline unique to Asura that produces Golems, which are constructs unique to Golemancy and unique in feature and design from all other constructs in the world of Tyria.

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s not a golem, it is a construct. It is also irrelevant to this thread because as per the OP we’re talking about Golemancy. If it wasn’t a construct of Golemancy, how is it relevant? It’s a robot, nothing else.

Golemancy is a magical discipline unique to Asura that produces Golems, which are constructs unique to Golemancy and unique in feature and design from all other constructs in the world of Tyria.

This bears repeating

What you are claiming is contrary to all lore within and without the game. Cling to whatever opinion you like, dismiss and accept whatever information you want, fact will not be subject to your interpretation or conception, and therefore you are still incorrect.

Fact is the dwarves had ‘constructs’ they called golems, which looked like golems, acted like golems, were constructed like golems, used for the duties golems are used for, and all lore states were golems, and they had them before the Asura.

Therefore, logically, they weren’t golems! Wait, no, that’s stupid.

And as per the OP, he stated it wouldn’t be a stretch for other races to practice golemancy, and he’s not only right but it in fact, according to lore, isn’t a stretch at all since Asurans are not the sole practitioners of golemancy, but merely the race who coined the term golemancy.

This is like claiming that the culture that coined the term ‘Physician’ are the first and only people to ever have any medical professionals.

Conncept.7638:

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s not a golem, it is a construct. It is also irrelevant to this thread because as per the OP we’re talking about Golemancy. If it wasn’t a construct of Golemancy, how is it relevant? It’s a robot, nothing else.

Golemancy is a magical discipline unique to Asura that produces Golems, which are constructs unique to Golemancy and unique in feature and design from all other constructs in the world of Tyria.

This bears repeating

What you are claiming is contrary to all lore within and without the game. Cling to whatever opinion you like, dismiss and accept whatever information you want, fact will not be subject to your interpretation or conception, and therefore you are still incorrect.

Fact is the dwarves had ‘constructs’ they called golems, which looked like golems, acted like golems, were constructed like golems, used for the duties golems are used for, and all lore states were golems, and they had them before the Asura.

Therefore, logically, they weren’t golems! Wait, no, that’s stupid.

And as per the OP, he stated it wouldn’t be a stretch for other races to practice golemancy, and he’s not only right but it in fact, according to lore, isn’t a stretch at all since Asurans are not the sole practitioners of golemancy, but merely the race who coined the term golemancy.

This is like claiming that the culture that coined the term ‘Physician’ are the first and only people to ever have any medical professionals.

I have seen no such thing to be true. Your links presented no such thing that agrees with your claim. Golems remain the unique product of Golemancy, a uniquely Asura discipline.

Unless specifically qualified, like Felsh Golem, when one uses the word Golem in GW2 they are talking about the product of Asura Golemancy.

I was going to ignore your last statement, but actually I won’t. You’re wrong. What I’m claiming is that someone who works on the brain is a brain surgeon, while you are claiming that anyone who is in a remotely medical field can be said to work on the brain, regardless of how similar to a brain the thing they work on is.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I have seen no such thing to be true. Your links presented no such thing that agrees with your claim. Golems remain the unique product of Golemancy, a uniquely Asura discipline.

Unless specifically qualified, like Felsh Golem, when one uses the word Golem in GW2 they are talking about the product of Asura Golemancy.

No, your opinion is that no such thing is true regardless of what you see. Fact is not subject to change because you turn a blind eye to it. I literally listed five instances in which constructs not made by asura were ‘specifically qualified’ as golems by all available game lore, one of which is canonically older than any Asuran golem.

Good grief how can a person be so delusional?

And your analogy is completely inapplicable, all game lore indicates these constructs are golems, therefore they are the result of the same field of study regardless of naming conventions. You are claiming that two things, in every way similar in their use, convention, and construction, have no parallels between them, as if a neurosurgeon would have to have different degrees to operate on the brain of a black person and the brain of a white person. A brain is called a brain because it is a brain and is therefore subject to any studies concerning the brain, regardless of wheter you call it brain surgery or neurosurgery or who the brain belongs to. And by the same logic a golem is a called a golem because it is a golem, and is subject to any study or knowledge about golems, regardless of whether you call the field of study golemancy or not or whatever race the construct may have been made by.

Conncept.7638:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I have seen no such thing to be true. Your links presented no such thing that agrees with your claim. Golems remain the unique product of Golemancy, a uniquely Asura discipline.

Unless specifically qualified, like Felsh Golem, when one uses the word Golem in GW2 they are talking about the product of Asura Golemancy.

No, your opinion is that no such thing is true regardless of what you see. Fact is not subject to change because you turn a blind eye to it. I literally listed five instances in which constructs not made by asura were ‘specifically qualified’ as golems by all available game lore, one of which is canonically older than any Asuran golem.

Good grief how can a person be so delusional?

No, my opinion is rude and not relevant to this debate. The fact is you threw up links to a bunch of things that were not actually Golems, some were simply elementals and undead, and one thing that was a Golem made by a canonical Golemancer.

You then claimed that Dwarves made Golems but rather than showing a Dwarven Golem you showed a link to a location that doesn’t describe a Golem, and a link to a dungeon that doesn’t contain a Golem, but does contain a large mechanical robot which is not actually self actuated. You also claim that Dwarves were using Golems before Asura based solely on the fact that we met Dwarves before Asura, not because we have any historical timeline that describes when Asura discovered Golemancy vs when the Dwarves started creating the things you want to believe are golems.

Conncept.7638:

And your analogy is completely inapplicable, all game lore indicates these constructs are golems, therefore they are the result of the same field of study regardless of naming conventions. You are claiming that two things, in every way similar in their use, convention, and construction, have no parallels between them, as if a neurosurgeon would have to have different degrees to operate on the brain of a black person and the brain of a white person. A brain is called a brain because it is a brain and is therefore subject to any studies concerning the brain, regardless of wheter you call it brain surgery or neurosurgery or who the brain belongs to. And by the same logic a golem is a called a golem because it is a golem, and is subject to any study or knowledge about golems, regardless of whether you call the field of study golemancy or not or whatever race the construct may have been made by.

This actually is the most concise break down of your misunderstanding that I could conceive, actually.

Elementals, Watchwork, Necromantic constructs and the big robots that the Dredge use but the Dwarves made are nothing like Golems produced from Golemancy.

They don’t have feelings nor desires. They can take only very rudimentary commands and “preprogramming.”

Golemancy is computerization. Golems have actual, factual, personalities that are programmed into them by the Golemancer that creates them. They are advanced intricate pieces of magic, not the slap dash animation of a pile of rocks or body parts you get in other magical fields. Golems have artificial intelligence.

That is the difference. That’s why it’s Brain Surgery, not the manufacture of artificial limbs, or pediatry.

Kal Spiro.9745:

No, my opinion is rude and not relevant to this debate. The fact is you threw up links to a bunch of things that were not actually Golems, some were simply elementals and undead, and one thing that was a Golem made by a canonical Golemancer.

You then claimed that Dwarves made Golems but rather than showing a Dwarven Golem you showed a link to a location that doesn’t describe a Golem, and a link to a dungeon that doesn’t contain a Golem, but does contain a large mechanical robot which is not actually self actuated.

You didn’t actually read any of the pages did you? One, single, page, the first one, conveniently, was a location, and guess what was on that page?

The Siege Ice Golem, a dwarven construct. Pardon me for expecting you to scroll down a few inches.

The following links (which it is now obvious you didn’t even click on) were the dwarven made Iron Forgeman listed as a golem by the wiki (and it was autonomous), the dwarven made Stone Golem, the human made Fire Golem, and Sandy the golem grafted by both Snaff and Eir.

Every one of those pages had a golem on them created by non-asura. Excuse me for not digesting information for you, but that is your responsibility.

Kal Spiro.9745:

You also claim that Dwarves were using Golems before Asura based solely on the fact that we met Dwarves before Asura, not because we have any historical timeline that describes when Asura discovered Golemancy vs when the Dwarves started creating the things you want to believe are golems.

Seriously? Could you possibly speak more while knowing less? Tyrias history is divided in to 10000 year cycles, an age ending with the awakening of the dragon and the destruction of all life. The dwarves are among five elder races which the rebel dragon Glint hid away at the end of the last cycle. All life besides these five races, was born in the current cycle of ten thousand years.

I made the links nice and big for you, make sure to actually read them this time round.

Kal Spiro.9745:

This actually is the most concise break down of your misunderstanding that I could conceive, actually.

Elementals, Watchwork, Necromantic constructs and the big robots that the Dredge use but the Dwarves made are nothing like Golems produced from Golemancy.

They don’t have feelings nor desires. They can take only very rudimentary commands and “preprogramming.”

Golemancy is computerization. Golems have actual, factual, personalities that are programmed into them by the Golemancer that creates them. They are advanced intricate pieces of magic, not the slap dash animation of a pile of rocks or body parts you get in other magical fields. Golems have artificial intelligence.

That is the difference. That’s why it’s Brain Surgery, not the manufacture of artificial limbs, or pediatry.

Assumption on every single count.

Please, if you can, show me exactly where in the game lore it specifically states any of what you just claimed is true.

Because one thing is fact, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has flat feet like a duck, it’s a duck.

And as I stated previously, the Golems I just linked to you are "constructs which are called golems, which looked like golems, acted like golems, were constructed like golems, used for the duties golems are used for, and all lore states were golems, and they (the dwarves) had them before the Asura. "

Fight fight fight fight!

So your big reveal is another elemental? I went through the links, I looked for anything that said golem, or looked like a construct. I didn’t find it. But thank you for providing me with another elemental, which is therefore still not a Golem.

Having the word golem in your name doesn’t make you a golem. It says very clearing in the description that it’s an elemental. Since it’s made of ice it was obviously animated through the use of hydromancy. Still not Golemancy which is a significantly more advanced form of magical animation.

That is what you don’t seem to be able to grasp. That is the difference. Yes, elementalists and necromancers can both animate things. Engineers can create things, though they aren’t animated and have to be driven by some means. All of the dredge gear, which was made by the dwarves, is either ridden inside or controlled externally. The Watchwork knights are run by clockwork.

Animation isn’t the same as what is produced through Golemancy. Golemancy produces an actual thinking machine. A construct that, if made well enough, can actually prove to be smarter than its creator, and often does.

Also, you showed me that that Dwarves are an ancient race, but not that the Asura are not one. It just says that the Asura were pushed out by Primordus later, not that they didn’t exist before then.

I’d like to note that in EOTN the Iron Forgeman was retconned as to have been designed by Oola (an Asura)

Oola’s lab prominently features many prototype and half-finished forgemen.

You’re both arguing over semantics at this point. In the 250 years since GW1, “golem” has, indeed become synonymous with Asuran magitech constructs, despite the fact that its in-universe historical etymology describes any self-locomotive entity comprised primarily of non-living base material.

You’re BOTH right. Asura have simply co-opted the term “Golem” over the years as theirs is the pinnacle of the art, and as the cultures of tyria melted together the word “Golem” became shorthand for “Asuran Golem”

Thus while it is technically correct to call any self-animated construct comprised primarily of of nonliving matter a golem, people don’t use the word that way any more in modern times. This is why, in modern times, if people describe such things they generally do so with a qualifier to denote it does not fit the commonly accepted etymology. Thus, when people say “Golem” they generally mean “Asuran Golem” but if they say “Flesh Golem” they’re qualifying the term to denote they are deliberately breaking away from the normal verbal shorthand.

PopeUrban.2578:

I’d like to note that in EOTN the Iron Forgeman was retconned as to have been designed by Oola (an Asura)

Oola’s lab prominently features many prototype and half-finished forgemen.

You’re both arguing over semantics at this point. In the 250 years since GW1, “golem” has, indeed become synonymous with Asuran magitech constructs, despite the fact that its in-universe historical etymology describes any self-locomotive entity comprised primarily of non-living base material.

You’re BOTH right. Asura have simply co-opted the term “Golem” over the years as theirs is the pinnacle of the art, and as the cultures of tyria melted together the word “Golem” became shorthand for “Asuran Golem”

Thus while it is technically correct to call any self-animated construct comprised primarily of of nonliving matter a golem, people don’t use the word that way any more in modern times. This is why, in modern times, if people describe such things they generally do so with a qualifier to denote it does not fit the commonly accepted etymology. Thus, when people say “Golem” they generally mean “Asuran Golem” but if they say “Flesh Golem” they’re qualifying the term to denote they are deliberately breaking away from the normal verbal shorthand.

That was basically the point of my argument to begin with. In GW2 when you say golem, unless it is specifically qualified with another term, you’re talking about the product of Golemancy.

After that it just became an effort to see how mad I could make Conncept, cause he seems really passionate about this thing.

Kal Spiro.9745:

So your big reveal is another elemental? I went through the links, I looked for anything that said golem, or looked like a construct. I didn’t find it. But thank you for providing me with another elemental, which is therefore still not a Golem.

Can you somehow write without being able to read? Let’s go over them again: Siege Ice GOLEM, Stone GOLEM, Fire GOLEM, Sandy the GOLEM, Iron forgeman- and at the bottom of the page we see… GOLEM.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Having the word golem in your name doesn’t make you a golem. It says very clearing in the description that it’s an elemental. Since it’s made of ice it was obviously animated through the use of hydromancy. Still not Golemancy which is a significantly more advanced form of magical animation.

That is what you don’t seem to be able to grasp. That is the difference. Yes, elementalists and necromancers can both animate things. Engineers can create things, though they aren’t animated and have to be driven by some means. All of the dredge gear, which was made by the dwarves, is either ridden inside or controlled externally. The Watchwork knights are run by clockwork.

Animation isn’t the same as what is produced through Golemancy. Golemancy produces an actual thinking machine. A construct that, if made well enough, can actually prove to be smarter than its creator, and often does.

Obviously we can just assume all information which contradicts us is wrong in order to be right yes?

They are referred to as golems by their creators, both those in and out of the game. You have, zero, in game lore to prove that the exact same magic and mechanical construction which qualifies something as a ‘golem’ cannot be applied to any substance, including fire, earth, or ice. They are golems, because all lore says they are and no information available to either of us says they are not, only your baseless assumptions about what a golem is.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Also, you showed me that that Dwarves are an ancient race, but not that the Asura are not one. It just says that the Asura were pushed out by Primordus later, not that they didn’t exist before then.

You didn’t bloody read the page again? Seriously?

It states ALL LIFE ENDED besides that small group of people Glint saved. Do I need to find you a wiki reference on what ALL means?

Conncept.7638:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Also, you showed me that that Dwarves are an ancient race, but not that the Asura are not one. It just says that the Asura were pushed out by Primordus later, not that they didn’t exist before then.

You didn’t bloody read the page again? Seriously?

It states ALL LIFE ENDED besides that small group of people Glint saved. Do I need to find you a wiki reference on what ALL means?

What it actually says is, and I quote, “The only surviving records exist in dwarven legends and jotun stelae, and according to these records only five sentient races battled and survived the Elder Dragons’ last rise with knowledge of them: dwarves, jotun, forgotten, mursaat, and seers. During this time, the mursaat used their own magic to flee Tyria, while Kralkatorrik’s champion Glint betrayed her master and hid the remaining races.”

This does not, actually, mean there were no minor races that existed and survived. It just means that if they did they did not retain the knowledge with which to pass down to subsequent generations. The Asura could easily have been the Skritt of the pervious generation.

It doesn’t have the word ALL anywhere. It doesn’t even say that Glint only hid the five, it just says she hid the ones that weren’t the mursaat.

wow, this is still going. that’s some serious dedication to an internet argument about a videogame class that will never happen.

just… wow.

BrunoBRS.5178:

wow, this is still going. that’s some serious dedication to an internet argument about a videogame class that will never happen.

just… wow.

I enjoy arguments that revolve around lore. And I don’t have a lot to do at work right now.

I’d just like to point out that the first known asuran golems in GW1 where originally called G.O.L.E.M. (short for Genius-Operated Living Enchanted Manifestations).
This clarified the difference between the asuran G.O.L.E.M. and other kinds of golems.

I may be confused here but aren’t we fairly sure that the new engineer spec wields a hammer and crazy flying helicopter thingmabobbers?

jweez.7214:

I may be confused here but aren’t we fairly sure that the new engineer spec wields a hammer and crazy flying helicopter thingmabobbers?

Fact

Kal Spiro.9745:

jweez.7214:

I may be confused here but aren’t we fairly sure that the new engineer spec wields a hammer and crazy flying helicopter thingmabobbers?

Fact

Yes – but that is ALL we know

I also did not specify the specialization that is being added in this expansion – I was saying that, at any point in the future, they could add Golemancer as a specialization and made the assumption it would be for Engineer, if at all.

I’ve come back to this thread today to find that i seemt o have triggered quite a large debate about what it means to be a Golem… that wasn’t really my intention.

Let’s just get back to what I said. Anet have shown they are willing to challenge their own status-quo. I really don’t think that it would be too much of a stretch for all races to gain access to Golemancy, and I see specializations as the route in.

Lord Krilik.3692:

I really don’t think that it would be too much of a stretch for all races to gain access to Golemancy, and I see specializations as the route in.

Equip a full set of superior runes of the Golemancer , a Ho-Ho-Tron backpack, any golem mini you like, and (if asura) one of the elite golem skills (preferably the defensive one, as it looks great next to the rune one ), get a stack each of Inquest golem arms and Mini golem bombs , and you’re well on your way to being a golemancer. My own is just missing his full set of Ho-Ho-Tron gathering tools . It’s awesome fun to play (more fun on Asura obviously).

BrunoBRS.5178:

wow, this is still going. that’s some serious dedication to an internet argument about a videogame class that will never happen.

just… wow.

Yeah exactly. And once these guys have established what a golem and golemancy is I would like you both to argue about who will win? Batman or superman if ever pitted together. I know there are references of batman beating the kitten out of superman. I just wanna see what you two lads make of it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Would not make sense for anything but an Asura, so no.

That’s merely a minor hurdle – not an insurmountable problem. Exercise your imagination. ArenaNet write the story. They have the creative license to make something like this work.

The five player races already share technology. Let’s just highlight two examples.

The existing engineer profession seems to be based on charr and maybe human tech. That’s including Asura engineers. IMO what doesn’t make sense is Asura engineers not employing cough unquestionably superior Asura tech. But that’s a whole different barrel of kittens.

And there’s the Asura gates and waypoints. EVERYONE uses Asura tech.

From a story point of view I think it would actually make a lot of sense for a new engineer spec to focus on Asura technology. In the interests of winning the war the Asura decide to share more of their toys. Not a big stretch of the imagination, eh?

That said, based on the teensy, tiny bit of info we have – a hammer wielding engineer with little flying clockwork looking drones – I don’t think it’s likely for their first specialization. But I think it would be very cool for a later one.

Golems are a Racial asura skill, they won’t be a specialization.

I agree with this idea, i want titanfall in my guild wars.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Golems are a Racial asura skill, they won’t be a specialization.

OMG worst argument ever.

Plant magic is a Sylvari racial skill. Plant magic will never be a specialization.

…. except for Druids.

A golemancer spec, huh? Well it’s true that a profession like that is asura-exclusive. Unless you change the name to “Pilot” where an engineer can control a particular machine that’s actually better than most golems.

How I can picture this would be that each race will have a racial exclusive machine to control with different looking abilities but the stats for each skill will remain identical so that racial will not play a key factor in getting an edge. As for the machines themselves:

1) Asura = An Omega Golem
2) Charr = A mechanical devourer
3) Sylvari = A Clockheart
4) Humans = This is going to be tough but I can imagine a bulky version of a Watchknight
5) Norn = Steam Ogre

Caeledh.5437:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Would not make sense for anything but an Asura, so no.

That’s merely a minor hurdle – not an insurmountable problem. Exercise your imagination. ArenaNet write the story. They have the creative license to make something like this work.

The five player races already share technology. Let’s just highlight two examples.

The existing engineer profession seems to be based on charr and maybe human tech. That’s including Asura engineers. IMO what doesn’t make sense is Asura engineers not employing cough unquestionably superior Asura tech. But that’s a whole different barrel of kittens.

And there’s the Asura gates and waypoints. EVERYONE uses Asura tech.

From a story point of view I think it would actually make a lot of sense for a new engineer spec to focus on Asura technology. In the interests of winning the war the Asura decide to share more of their toys. Not a big stretch of the imagination, eh?

That said, based on the teensy, tiny bit of info we have – a hammer wielding engineer with little flying clockwork looking drones – I don’t think it’s likely for their first specialization. But I think it would be very cool for a later one.

Sharing technology and using technology others make available is not exactly the same thing. The Asura are very secretive of their tech and don’t readily share it with outsiders. Scarlet being a very solo exception.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sharing technology and using technology others make available is not exactly the same thing. The Asura are very secretive of their tech and don’t readily share it with outsiders. Scarlet being a very solo exception.

I make the exact same point again. I’ll even use one of the same examples.

Asura waypoints and gates are EVERYWHERE and EVERYONE uses them. That doesn’t mean ANYONE other than the Asura know precisely how they work or that the Asura wouldn’t implement safeguards – most likely explosive and / or corrosive – to protect their knowledge.

Creating a bunch of golems and other assorted control devices and giving them out to engineers of all races does not require sharing any knowledge of how to replicate the technology or leaving any room for other races to reverse engineer them.

I don’t think Golemancer is something an Engineer should be specialized in.
First off, golems are magical constructs, derived from different schools of magic, while engineers use machines.
Golemancy is an asuran invention. There may be golems of different kinds in multiple magical disciplines, but only asura have created golemancy as a specialized discipline. And asura barely share knowledge between each other, let alone other races.
Remember the Beetletun-dungeon? The path where an asuran specialist follows you through the dungeon to destroy all kinds of asuran tech, because it isn’t allowed to have their tech?
Each gate in each city is run by asuran krewe’s.
One of the first heart-events in Metrica Province has repairable golems. Asura-characters get some technobabble, while all other races get descriptions like red or blue thingie.
I can’t imagine asura sharing their tech with other races, even if they allow them to use it for a fee. Only the orders and the pact have cases of asuran tech being shared with other races, whereas this technology still remained in the hands of the pact/order.

The idea in itself is nice though.
Maybe in the expansion after HoT we’ll get something like a racial specialization. Aviable for each profession, but differing by race.
Each centered around giving us some golem-like add that we can use like an armor and is upgradable by the mastery-system.
Could be something like:
Asura: Golemancer(get’s something like Taimi’s Scruffy)
Charr: Drone-Engineer(A nice, steampunk-robot)
Human: Automaton Tinkerer(A clockwork-mecha)
Norn: Spirit-Armorer(A spirit-imbued creation of steel and wooden totems)
Sylvari: Oaken Rider(A symbiotic oakheart that can take the sylvari into it’s chest)

Each of those adds wouldn’t change your profession-related weapon-skills and would allow you to run around with giant versions of your professions favourite weapon. Imagine an asuran elementalist entering his/her golem and using a huge staff with it to blast out massive fire-balls or whole tsunamis.
In turn riding the suit exchanges your utilities and elite in racial suit-skills. Something like self-repair for asura, while charr get a shouldermounted mortar-barage.
In exchange for being a huge, tough version of your profession, the suits could be unable to dodge or something like that.

Caeledh.5437:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Would not make sense for anything but an Asura, so no.

That’s merely a minor hurdle – not an insurmountable problem. Exercise your imagination. ArenaNet write the story. They have the creative license to make something like this work.

The five player races already share technology. Let’s just highlight two examples.

The existing engineer profession seems to be based on charr and maybe human tech. That’s including Asura engineers. IMO what doesn’t make sense is Asura engineers not employing cough unquestionably superior Asura tech. But that’s a whole different barrel of kittens.

And there’s the Asura gates and waypoints. EVERYONE uses Asura tech.

From a story point of view I think it would actually make a lot of sense for a new engineer spec to focus on Asura technology. In the interests of winning the war the Asura decide to share more of their toys. Not a big stretch of the imagination, eh?

That said, based on the teensy, tiny bit of info we have – a hammer wielding engineer with little flying clockwork looking drones – I don’t think it’s likely for their first specialization. But I think it would be very cool for a later one.

This was exactly my point – thank you

Guys – what I’m getting at is really more akin to the puppetmaster in FFXI.

Link: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Puppetmaster

The Golemancer would have a Golem that follows them around and is fully customizable. You customize it’s look, it’s stats, it’s skills. Perhaps you could make it mountable, or you could have it run around with you like a ranger pet.

The fact that Asura can use their elite skill to summon a golem would be irrelevant – An asura ranger has a pet out permanently, but still can summon a golem as well with their racial elite.

This spec differs from ranger in that ranger is about the collection of many animals, the exploration of the world, the hunt, etc.

Golemancer is about 1 single golem that you tinker with to your liking.

Lord Krilik.3692:

Guys – what I’m getting at is really more akin to the puppetmaster in FFXI.

Link: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Puppetmaster

The Golemancer would have a Golem that follows them around and is fully customizable. You customize it’s look, it’s stats, it’s skills. Perhaps you could make it mountable, or you could have it run around with you like a ranger pet.

The fact that Asura can use their elite skill to summon a golem would be irrelevant – An asura ranger has a pet out permanently, but still can summon a golem as well with their racial elite.

This spec differs from ranger in that ranger is about the collection of many animals, the exploration of the world, the hunt, etc.

Golemancer is about 1 single golem that you tinker with to your liking.

I like the idea of merging with the pet. I am hoping for that for the Druid if they don’t get forms themselves…

Actually Golemancer is very reasonable as a specialization because this is not an asura exclusive technique. (truth is nothing is exclusive to certain race) It is a technique that can be learned by all the other intelligent races.

It has been proven by Scarlet (she is a living legend to prove that Sylvari can outsmart Asura), as well as the pact members (Personal story: Air drop, you’re controlling the strongest Golem in existence, created by the Pact) are able to create mechanical creatures such as Robots and Golems.

Lord Krilik.3692:

Guys – what I’m getting at is really more akin to the puppetmaster in FFXI.

Link: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Puppetmaster

The Golemancer would have a Golem that follows them around and is fully customizable. You customize it’s look, it’s stats, it’s skills. Perhaps you could make it mountable, or you could have it run around with you like a ranger pet.

The fact that Asura can use their elite skill to summon a golem would be irrelevant – An asura ranger has a pet out permanently, but still can summon a golem as well with their racial elite.

This spec differs from ranger in that ranger is about the collection of many animals, the exploration of the world, the hunt, etc.

Golemancer is about 1 single golem that you tinker with to your liking.

I still feel that anything calling itself Golemancer is an automatic fail as far as ever being an actual thing we can play, I do like the idea of a pet class that specs out its pet to change its appearance and what it does.

I also think you are expecting far too much out of specializations. Keep in mind that specs aren’t new classes and only a small amount of the original class is likely to be lost in the spec so it still has to be able to play 80% like the original.

This thing you seem to be suggesting is not that.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I also think you are expecting far too much out of specializations. Keep in mind that specs aren’t new classes and only a small amount of the original class is likely to be lost in the spec so it still has to be able to play 80% like the original.

This thing you seem to be suggesting is not that.

This is true – we don’t yet know the extent that spec will alter the classes.

What I do think is possible is that current weapon skills might change on classes when they spec. I.e. the Mesmer may only get a shield (so 2 new skills) but I suspect their existing weapons will see some changes on spec too.

just to ask before i make up things not true….
when the game was in beta they said that an asura can create a golem suit but anyone can jump in, is that true?

sorudo.9054:

just to ask before i make up things not true….
when the game was in beta they said that an asura can create a golem suit but anyone can jump in, is that true?

They have the following elite, which I think is what you are describing: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Power_Suit