Guild Wars 2

Right now, you can unlock everything on your character in 1 of 2 ways: trait hunting (mostly in open world PvE) or spending skill points and gold. This is nice because even if you don’t enjoy trait hunting, you can still unlock everything for your characters without going far out of your way through method 2, because almost everything in the game awards skillpoints and gold.

Play only dungeons? Skillpoints and gold. PvP? Skillpoints and gold. WvW? Skillpoints and gold. Fractals? Skillpoints and gold. Spend all your time playing Sanctum Sprint? Skillpoints and kittening gold. If you do anything besides AFK in LA all day you’re going to end up with enough skillpoints and gold to fully unlock your character. And that’s a good thing.

After these changes, if you want to fully unlock your characters, you’ll have the choice of either doing hero challenges in open world, or… doing hero challenges in open world. I really don’t understand how you guys can’t see that this is a huge kittening step backwards. Forcing players to do content they don’t like to unlock skills and traits that are used everywhere is a very bad thing, and certainly not fun.

Sins.4782:

After these changes, if you want to fully unlock your characters, you’ll have the choice of either doing hero challenges in open world, or… doing hero challenges in open world. I really don’t understand how you guys can’t see that this is a huge kittening step backwards. Forcing players to do content they don’t like to unlock skills and traits that are used everywhere is a very bad thing, and certainly not fun.

Agreed.

This seems to be the history of development in this game. We keep bouncing back and forth between more choice and less. Smooth progression, and grindy.

While the first trait revamp sucks, so does this one. So many people keep comparing this to our current system, conveniently forgetting the one we had at launch.

I don’t know why they want to suddenly make alts so much more of a pain to make. Personally I think map completion should just be account wide because its boring the 2nd time, let alone the 5th.

However, that will never happen because they (foolishly) tied legendaries to map completion. So, how about an npc in lions arch you can pay gold to recomplete the skill challenges in a specific map on your alt at the same rate that we currently pay for traits? Make it so you can only do this for skill points you have unlocked on at least one other character.

What about making the hero challenges of map completion account wide? That way you still have a reason to do map completion on alts. Its just not necessary for unlocking skills and traits. But im guessing people who like to have individual progression on each character would dislike this.

I think that would be solid too.

thrag.9740:

I don’t know why they want to suddenly make alts so much more of a pain to make. Personally I think map completion should just be account wide because its boring the 2nd time, let alone the 5th.

However, that will never happen because they (foolishly) tied legendaries to map completion. So, how about an npc in lions arch you can pay gold to recomplete the skill challenges in a specific map on your alt at the same rate that we currently pay for traits? Make it so you can only do this for skill points you have unlocked on at least one other character.

Exactly account wide map completion wouldnt work unless all your alts and new toons automatically got gifts of exploration.

If they did that, it would work.

Im feeling just the same as everyone else, the new toons thats one thing, but to have to go back and complete hero challenges all of a sudden to get the same functionality out of my current toons that I already have.

Well then dont put your update on my computer then.

I could even somewhat understand it if you had to do a few hero challenges to open elite specializations only, but that would get old real quick.

Its not about so much what I have to do for one toon, its after Ive done that crap Im not going to want to have to do it over and over and over and over and over for every single toon I have now and future ones.

yeah exactly, 65 skill challenges isn’t the issue, its 65×9 skill challenges that everyone is frustrated with.

Basically the primary things I think the new system wants to accomplish is:

They want some level of charachter specific progression in pve. (Basically you should have to play a proffession in order to reach maximum potential within that charachter)

And they want a limited system that won’t suffer from inflation. So they can better expand/add specs/skills in the future.

A side goal is creating a rewArd/goal/incentive that appeals to players for experiencing the world, that isnt economy focused, and consistently valuable.

Based in that, I doubt they would make it account wide.
its actually really alt friendly compared to almost any other game

phys.7689:

Based in that, I doubt they would make it account wide.
its actually really alt friendly compared to almost any other game

GW2 the MMORPG for those who hate that’s not quite as bad as other MMORPGs.

Ok, i have eight toons and there is NO WAY i am going to do 65 challenges eight times!!!!!!! Arenanet you are seriously wanting me to leave this game.

rainynoble.6531:

Ok, i have eight toons and there is NO WAY i am going to do 65 challenges eight times!!!!!!! Arenanet you are seriously wanting me to leave this game.

Then don’t. With 400 Hero Points you can unlock most things. That means you can unlock the build you like to use on those alts. You can probably completely unlock 2 builds which, if you are like most, is all you really need for an alt. Main tends to use a plethora of builds, alts tend to stick to 1 or 2. Especially when considering that to effectively use different builds you probably need different armor sets. Thus a main with multiple armor sets and builds is one thing, but 8 alts probably not.

Seriously, not as bad as most make this out to be.

I have 14 toons, I’ve done map complete on 7 of the 8 individual professions. It took some time and dedication, but I’m ready for any and all trait unlocks that will come. I realize I have spent a lot of time others may not have, but in the end, I tend to only play 2-3 of my characters consistently, which is all you need really do to make this work for you.

Gibson.4036:

phys.7689:

Based in that, I doubt they would make it account wide.
its actually really alt friendly compared to almost any other game

GW2 the MMORPG for those who hate that’s not quite as bad as other MMORPGs.

so what you are saying, is you really think its a good idea that you never have to play a charachter/proffession at all, and can full unlock all its abilities? You really think that is a winning strategy for PVE?
No incentives for playing pve other than the most effecient farm?
want to level a revenant? play staff guardian in silverwastes, then presto new level 80 revenant max power with an age of 10 minutes.

you really think that is a good idea for pve?

they are being extremely alt friendly by allowing veterans to essentially skip the level 1-80 process while farming gold. to have to actually play the class for 3-5 hours is not an insane asking price.

keep in mind the initial system had no means of alt leveling transference, aside from maybe doing tons of crafting, which for 80 levels would take longer than it does to do skill challenges.

as someone who leveled initially, ill tell you were looking at anywhere from 40-80 hours to level a new charachter without crafting in the initial system, no matter how many other level 80s you had. and that didnt get you all your skills unlocked by far. now you can get both skills and traits unlocked in 3-5 hours if you are a veteran. Thats really aboout as alt friendly as you can get, without automatically giving veterans every proffession to max stat.

phys.7689:

Gibson.4036:

phys.7689:

Based in that, I doubt they would make it account wide.
its actually really alt friendly compared to almost any other game

GW2 the MMORPG for those who hate that’s not quite as bad as other MMORPGs.

so what you are saying, is you really think its a good idea that you never have to play a charachter/proffession at all, and can full unlock all its abilities? You really think that is a winning strategy for PVE?
No incentives for playing pve other than the most effecient farm?
want to level a revenant? play staff guardian in silverwastes, then presto new level 80 revenant max power with an age of 10 minutes.

you really think that is a good idea for pve?

they are being extremely alt friendly by allowing veterans to essentially skip the level 1-80 process while farming gold. to have to actually play the class for 3-5 hours is not an insane asking price.

keep in mind the initial system had no means of alt leveling transference, aside from maybe doing tons of crafting, which for 80 levels would take longer than it does to do skill challenges.

Well the problem is that for many what you consider and incentive doesnt incentivize anyone. There are many just like myself who could care less about legendary weapons because they dont feel like engaging the carebare PvE this game has. I mean come on, in Guild Wars, you either had to have a party or a runner just to get to the next outpost. In that game map completion was something interesting and extremely difficult.

The challenge in PvE is not there so its just mindless running around to do stupid things like pouring water on sleeping drunks.

Ill give to GW2 the creativity is there in full force even with complete revamps to maps to go along with new stories. Too bad the mechanics and idea of challenge were lost in it all.

So with that said, Its a rare thing that you even see me in a PvE environment at all. And well unless they plan on revamping PvE altogether to put in some challenge there, I dont want to have to bother with it at all.

nightblood.7910:

phys.7689:

Gibson.4036:

phys.7689:

Based in that, I doubt they would make it account wide.
its actually really alt friendly compared to almost any other game

GW2 the MMORPG for those who hate that’s not quite as bad as other MMORPGs.

so what you are saying, is you really think its a good idea that you never have to play a charachter/proffession at all, and can full unlock all its abilities? You really think that is a winning strategy for PVE?
No incentives for playing pve other than the most effecient farm?
want to level a revenant? play staff guardian in silverwastes, then presto new level 80 revenant max power with an age of 10 minutes.

you really think that is a good idea for pve?

they are being extremely alt friendly by allowing veterans to essentially skip the level 1-80 process while farming gold. to have to actually play the class for 3-5 hours is not an insane asking price.

keep in mind the initial system had no means of alt leveling transference, aside from maybe doing tons of crafting, which for 80 levels would take longer than it does to do skill challenges.

Well the problem is that for many what you consider and incentive doesnt incentivize anyone. There are many just like myself who could care less about legendary weapons because they dont feel like engaging the carebare PvE this game has. I mean come on, in Guild Wars, you either had to have a party or a runner just to get to the next city. In that game map completion was something interesting and extremely difficult.

The challenge in PvE is not there so its just mindless running around to do stupid things like pouring water on sleeping drunks.

Ill give to GW2 the creativity is there in full force even with complete revamps to maps to go along with new stories. Too bad the mechanics and idea of challenge were lost in it all.

So with that said, Its a rare thing that you even see me in a PvE environment at all. And well unless they plan on revamping PvE altogether to put in some challenge there, I dont want to have to bother with it at all.

so what mode do you want to play?

rainynoble.6531:

Ok, i have eight toons and there is NO WAY i am going to do 65 challenges eight times!!!!!!! Arenanet you are seriously wanting me to leave this game.

I fail to see how you could possibly NOT have the required skill challenges already done. Unless you leveled every single one of your characters in WvW, or only leveled via events and never once did a skill challenge.

phys.7689:

nightblood.7910:

phys.7689:

Gibson.4036:

phys.7689:

Based in that, I doubt they would make it account wide.
its actually really alt friendly compared to almost any other game

GW2 the MMORPG for those who hate that’s not quite as bad as other MMORPGs.

so what you are saying, is you really think its a good idea that you never have to play a charachter/proffession at all, and can full unlock all its abilities? You really think that is a winning strategy for PVE?
No incentives for playing pve other than the most effecient farm?
want to level a revenant? play staff guardian in silverwastes, then presto new level 80 revenant max power with an age of 10 minutes.

you really think that is a good idea for pve?

they are being extremely alt friendly by allowing veterans to essentially skip the level 1-80 process while farming gold. to have to actually play the class for 3-5 hours is not an insane asking price.

keep in mind the initial system had no means of alt leveling transference, aside from maybe doing tons of crafting, which for 80 levels would take longer than it does to do skill challenges.

Well the problem is that for many what you consider and incentive doesnt incentivize anyone. There are many just like myself who could care less about legendary weapons because they dont feel like engaging the carebare PvE this game has. I mean come on, in Guild Wars, you either had to have a party or a runner just to get to the next city. In that game map completion was something interesting and extremely difficult.

The challenge in PvE is not there so its just mindless running around to do stupid things like pouring water on sleeping drunks.

Ill give to GW2 the creativity is there in full force even with complete revamps to maps to go along with new stories. Too bad the mechanics and idea of challenge were lost in it all.

So with that said, Its a rare thing that you even see me in a PvE environment at all. And well unless they plan on revamping PvE altogether to put in some challenge there, I dont want to have to bother with it at all.

so what mode do you want to play?

I play WvW and PvP. PvP its nto such a big concern but WvW yeah its a concern.

And I see many people discussing 65 hero points.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hero_point

This says there are 400 hero points from leveling and then another 220 hero points from challenges.

My assumption is that we will be seeing the 400 from leveling automatically and will have to go PvE to open our toons completely?

nightblood.7910:

phys.7689:

nightblood.7910:

phys.7689:

Gibson.4036:

phys.7689:

Based in that, I doubt they would make it account wide.
its actually really alt friendly compared to almost any other game

GW2 the MMORPG for those who hate that’s not quite as bad as other MMORPGs.

so what you are saying, is you really think its a good idea that you never have to play a charachter/proffession at all, and can full unlock all its abilities? You really think that is a winning strategy for PVE?
No incentives for playing pve other than the most effecient farm?
want to level a revenant? play staff guardian in silverwastes, then presto new level 80 revenant max power with an age of 10 minutes.

you really think that is a good idea for pve?

they are being extremely alt friendly by allowing veterans to essentially skip the level 1-80 process while farming gold. to have to actually play the class for 3-5 hours is not an insane asking price.

keep in mind the initial system had no means of alt leveling transference, aside from maybe doing tons of crafting, which for 80 levels would take longer than it does to do skill challenges.

Well the problem is that for many what you consider and incentive doesnt incentivize anyone. There are many just like myself who could care less about legendary weapons because they dont feel like engaging the carebare PvE this game has. I mean come on, in Guild Wars, you either had to have a party or a runner just to get to the next city. In that game map completion was something interesting and extremely difficult.

The challenge in PvE is not there so its just mindless running around to do stupid things like pouring water on sleeping drunks.

Ill give to GW2 the creativity is there in full force even with complete revamps to maps to go along with new stories. Too bad the mechanics and idea of challenge were lost in it all.

So with that said, Its a rare thing that you even see me in a PvE environment at all. And well unless they plan on revamping PvE altogether to put in some challenge there, I dont want to have to bother with it at all.

so what mode do you want to play?

I play WvW and PvP. PvP its nto such a big concern but WvW yeah its a concern.

And I see many people discussing 65 hero points.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hero_point

This says there are 400 hero points from leveling and then another 220 hero points from challenges.

My assumption is that we will be seeing the 400 from leveling automatically and will have to go PvE to open our toons completely?

400 from leveling 65 more (roughly) to get all core skills. you will most likely have some from wvw maps, i assume the new borderlands will also have new skill challenges.

it is uncertain how many or if you will have to go to pve to unlock. However if you do, keep in mind WvW was initially designed to be a shared progression with PVE, ie it was not meant to be completely self contained.

its entirely possible they have a totally different eve plan

Sins.4782:

Right now, you can unlock everything on your character in 1 of 2 ways: trait hunting (mostly in open world PvE) or spending skill points and gold. This is nice because even if you don’t enjoy trait hunting, you can still unlock everything for your characters without going far out of your way through method 2, because almost everything in the game awards skillpoints and gold.

Play only dungeons? Skillpoints and gold. PvP? Skillpoints and gold. WvW? Skillpoints and gold. Fractals? Skillpoints and gold. Spend all your time playing Sanctum Sprint? Skillpoints and kittening gold. If you do anything besides AFK in LA all day you’re going to end up with enough skillpoints and gold to fully unlock your character. And that’s a good thing.

After these changes, if you want to fully unlock your characters, you’ll have the choice of either doing hero challenges in open world, or… doing hero challenges in open world. I really don’t understand how you guys can’t see that this is a huge kittening step backwards. Forcing players to do content they don’t like to unlock skills and traits that are used everywhere is a very bad thing, and certainly not fun.

Bad decision. But what can anybody expect coming from the people that thought NPE and Trait change was a good idea….

Not sure now if i will be playing GW2 long. Cant trust Arena Net with game design decisions.

CrimsonDX.4821:

rainynoble.6531:

Ok, i have eight toons and there is NO WAY i am going to do 65 challenges eight times!!!!!!! Arenanet you are seriously wanting me to leave this game.

I fail to see how you could possibly NOT have the required skill challenges already done. Unless you leveled every single one of your characters in WvW, or only leveled via events and never once did a skill challenge.

Through tome of knowledge and switching character at the end of dungeon.

I am more annoyed with the fact that they are going to take away something i already unlocked. ( i have all traits/utilities unlocked across all my toons, even the one i don’t use)

thrag.9740:

yeah exactly, 65 skill challenges isn’t the issue, its 65×9 skill challenges that everyone is frustrated with.

No i have a problem with losing progression once again. Losing skills i worked to unlock already. My alts didnt have many skill challenges done. They leveled in WvW and Event train when that was the thing.

i dont enjoy map completions. My main had 75% and every other character has like 40% or less.

this change makes my characters lose their current skills. And FOR WHAT? thats what i want an answer for…

You people are insane.. You will unlock 400/465 by being 80 – you will have more than enough choices with zero work done except being 80 to make whatever build you want.

And “FOR WHAT?” … For a massive overhaul of traits with tons of buffs and new ways to play… Get a grip xD

Coulter.2315:

You people are insane.. You will unlock 400/465 by being 80 – you will have more than enough choices with zero work done except being 80 to make whatever build you want.

And “FOR WHAT?” … For a massive overhaul of traits with tons of buffs and new ways to play… Get a grip xD

We still lose progression. Thanks for continuing to ignore that….

You all act like you are being asked to complete maps 100% to get your skills back…. how much time does it take to run up to a symbol on the map, comuning with that place of power, and going to the next? Or maybe you have to god forbid fight something that doesn’t have another player behind it. Seriously…. yes you are losing progression, sorry…. suck it up butter cup and just do the easily done “challenges”.

Remember during the announcement for HoT at PAX South when Mike and Colin came out on stage? Remember the wild screams of joy from the audience when he said there wasn’t a level cap increase? What if he had said, “Oh, and if you have lots of alts you are gonna have to go out and earn some progression again. Those skill point scrolls we gave you that you like because you can do stuff on one character and earn progression for another character? You can’t use those on your Revenant.”

He wouldn’t have gotten many cheers for that.

Coulter.2315:

You people are insane.. You will unlock 400/465 by being 80 – you will have more than enough choices with zero work done except being 80 to make whatever build you want.

And “FOR WHAT?” … For a massive overhaul of traits with tons of buffs and new ways to play… Get a grip xD

zero work? i don’t think i am handed with a level 80 toon from the start.

Remember what Anet said about no grind philosophy, of how it “doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun.” (this is directly quoted from their design manifesto. ) I don’t know about everyone else but unlocking all traits is considering an end game achievement for me, and i paid for some of those traits with gold too.

I am probably going to buy expansion and probably gonna suck it up and get all those traits all over again (for all toons!!!), but i am definitely not going to be happy while doing it.

Zalavaaris.5329:

You all act like you are being asked to complete maps 100% to get your skills back…. how much time does it take to run up to a symbol on the map, comuning with that place of power, and going to the next? Or maybe you have to god forbid fight something that doesn’t have another player behind it. Seriously…. yes you are losing progression, sorry…. suck it up butter cup and just do the easily done “challenges”.

65 skill challenges
8 professions currently available
That’s 520 skill challenges
The entire world map only has 189 skill challenges.

Go do every skill point. Now do it again. Now do 3/4 of them again. Does that seem so trivial to you? Just to get back to where we are right now?

thrag.9740:

Zalavaaris.5329:

You all act like you are being asked to complete maps 100% to get your skills back…. how much time does it take to run up to a symbol on the map, comuning with that place of power, and going to the next? Or maybe you have to god forbid fight something that doesn’t have another player behind it. Seriously…. yes you are losing progression, sorry…. suck it up butter cup and just do the easily done “challenges”.

65 skill challenges
8 professions currently available
That’s 520 skill challenges
The entire world map only has 189 skill challenges.

Go do every skill point. Now do it again. Now do 3/4 of them again. Does that seem so trivial to you? Just to get back to where we are right now?

Do you know what!?

I have 11 characters 9 of them at level 80 and all of them have atleast 65 SPC made… I think my new toons are near 65 SPC too, you know it does not take that much time if you do the SPC at the starter zones and only goes from them.
Also you WvW-only players, you should try to do some PvE now and then anyway to get some variation. Now i agree and I feel sorry for those who have spent money and SP on traits so I would like for them to get a refund but they should not get any free HP. All new players who make alts will have to do HPC, this will be nothing different to anyone.
if you are a PvP-only player you will not be affected by this and if you are a WvW-only player you do actually have a good amount of HP to get on the WvW map. Now if you are a EotM farmer… I do not feel sorry for you at all since you ruined a good map.

I will get so flamed but this is my opinion.

Another massive shove from Anet to try and pigeonhole players into playing one or if your lucky, two toons.

I have around 30 level 80 toons, probably use ten of them on a fairly regular basis.

So that’s between 650 and 1950 times I need to hunt around pve maps doing stuff I don’t want to do to unlock build variance on my characters and have a chance at making either my existing build or a new one (as many builds are killed off by the new trait system/wvw changes).

Not to mention probably needing different armor sets on quite a few of them.

I’m glad this isn’t a grindy Korean MMO, I’d hate to see what they did then….

The more I read of this expansion the less enthusiastic I am about it. But I’ll probably still buy it, for whenever I come back to the game more regularly.

Baldrick.8967:

Another massive shove from Anet to try and pigeonhole players into playing one or if your lucky, two toons.

I have around 30 level 80 toons, probably use ten of them on a fairly regular basis.

So that’s between 650 and 1950 times I need to hunt around pve maps doing stuff I don’t want to do to unlock build variance on my characters and have a chance at making either my existing build or a new one (as many builds are killed off by the new trait system/wvw changes).

Not to mention probably needing different armor sets on quite a few of them.

I’m glad this isn’t a grindy Korean MMO, I’d hate to see what they did then….

The more I read of this expansion the less enthusiastic I am about it. But I’ll probably still buy it, for whenever I come back to the game more regularly.

Even though my opinions doesn’t go with many others on this thread, I hope that WvW will be insta maxed just as PvP is… Becouse this is getting rediculous… 30 characters becouse you don’t wanna swap between builds? reading this sounds like WvW should not be mixed with PvE at all as it is now. It mostly WvW-only players that complains. PvE players should be happy becouse now there is a real reason exept for 100% explorer to do the SPC. And players who wanna do WvW wouldnt have to Farm EotM to level up their toons.

Baldrick.8967:

Another massive shove from Anet to try and pigeonhole players into playing one or if your lucky, two toons.

I have around 30 level 80 toons, probably use ten of them on a fairly regular basis.

So that’s between 650 and 1950 times I need to hunt around pve maps doing stuff I don’t want to do to unlock build variance on my characters and have a chance at making either my existing build or a new one (as many builds are killed off by the new trait system/wvw changes).

Not to mention probably needing different armor sets on quite a few of them.

I’m glad this isn’t a grindy Korean MMO, I’d hate to see what they did then….

The more I read of this expansion the less enthusiastic I am about it. But I’ll probably still buy it, for whenever I come back to the game more regularly.

if you have 30 toons, so you dont have to change your builds around, then you will be able to do the same thing JUST with the 400 base skill points.
due to changes in builds, no build will use more than 3/5 specializations.
that means you will probably need at the most 340 hero points to unlock all skills and 3 specs.

Now, if you have 30 charachters just for looks, then nothing changes.

and are you saying these 30 charachters have completely unlocked all traits? unless you made these 30 charachters in the first system, then leveled them through the later systems method of getting tomes, it seems fairly unlikely.

and thats the interesting thing, a great deal of the problems, are due to a poor method of grandfathering into the second system, combined with the second systems need to give 100-1000s of skill points without any actual concerted effort.

If you leveled those charachters under the first system, and fully unlocked their abilities, there was a high chance you did at least 65 skill points, because getting them just from leveling meant you would be kitten for a long time, and take like 10-20 times longer to unlock all your skills.

Better solution would be to just give all PvP and WvW players full access to all skills and lvl 80 upscale as soon as the enter the PvP and WvW areas

since many people who play WvW and PvP don’t give a crap about PvE then why should they be forced to play it.. nah just let them have it.. It wont effect us PvE players anyway and WvW is more a PvP area so should function more like it

this way everyones happy

PvE gets new system PvE players like
PvP and WvW doesnt get effected by it at all

everyone wins

Teratus.2859:

Better solution would be to just give all PvP and WvW players full access to all skills and lvl 80 upscale as soon as the enter the PvP and WvW areas

since many people who play WvW and PvP don’t give a crap about PvE then why should they be forced to play it.. nah just let them have it.. It wont effect us PvE players anyway and WvW is more a PvP area so should function more like it

this way everyones happy

PvE gets new system PvE players like
PvP and WvW doesnt get effected by it at all

everyone wins

WvW and PvE are the same thing, you cannot have 1 getting full unlock without affecting the other. PvP will have the option to buy the traits just as before no doubt.

Ok new solution;

lets borrow from the elite tome system in GW1.

it will take a lot of UI/programming/data work, but it will allow some measure flexibility within the system.

• create a charachter based mission unlock system, that allows you to choose to unlock a random skill challenge that your account has already unlocked. At the achievement shaky the option is between small amount of silver, a random drop, or the skill challenge unlock.

• these mission like unlocks are charachter specific, and will generally happen only with intent. You choose a mission, then carry it out, on success you can choose the hero challenge unlock option if you wish.
  • some missions might be repeatable, some might not
  • for example in WvW you may have one mission revive 5 players while in combat without dying, Or capture stone mist, or kill 10 players without dying. Some PVE ones might be like, complete X jumping puzzle within X time limit. Defeat X dungeon with no team deaths. Kill X enemies while in one instance of ascalon tombs.

• for the sake of grandfathering they can give old charachters who have achieved full unlock(skills and traits) before the new system went into place 65 minus current skill point unlock for the charachter number of these unlock shaky interactions.

problems solved

• this would allow people to get hero points from various play with their charachters, though less effeciently than skill points are earned. keeping skill challenges in game valuable targets
• People would have to do a hero challenge at least once per account to be able to unlock it, so people cant skip content completely
• can use the same code for grandfathering, which would not pervert or damage the system in the long run.
• some small part of progression remains charachter specific, and has multiple paths for veterans (still chr specific, but you can do something harder on alts)

problems

• mostly, implementation
  • requires data points based on account, and which skill challenges were completed
  • requires UI for skill challenge account completion and comparison of charachter completion to account completion (probably looking like 65charachter/75account
  • requires UI and design of various “missions” as well UI for selecting them
• is not that simple, player has to actively pursue missions, and understand account versus charachter unlocks.

• for grandfathering purposes, some charachters might have up to 65 “shaky” interactions to do before playing their charachters.
• biggest problem, probably already too late to build this kind of system on schedule.

so really peoples best hope is that they already have something built, that wont in the long run create a perverted system like the first grandfathering technique, combined with current skill point aquisition.

(optional)

• decouple hero challenges from world complete.
• give hero challenges its own reward track, a good place for proffesion themed armors/weapons

Teratus.2859:

Better solution would be to just give all PvP and WvW players full access to all skills and lvl 80 upscale as soon as the enter the PvP and WvW areas

since many people who play WvW and PvP don’t give a crap about PvE then why should they be forced to play it.. nah just let them have it.. It wont effect us PvE players anyway and WvW is more a PvP area so should function more like it

this way everyones happy

PvE gets new system PvE players like
PvP and WvW doesnt get effected by it at all

everyone wins

this is a possible solution, that i dont disagree with, however from what i hear many WvWers actually like that WvW allows them to use their personally designed/progressed charahters. Some of these players dont like spvp as much because it is free, commitmentless, and progressionless. They basically want to use the charachter they built up though blood sweat and tears, against players who did the same.

but like i said, i specifically wouldnt mind

I’d like to hear what Anet has planned for this, because so far, all we have is a reaction from fans who think something is going to happen.

thrag.9740:

Zalavaaris.5329:

You all act like you are being asked to complete maps 100% to get your skills back…. how much time does it take to run up to a symbol on the map, comuning with that place of power, and going to the next? Or maybe you have to god forbid fight something that doesn’t have another player behind it. Seriously…. yes you are losing progression, sorry…. suck it up butter cup and just do the easily done “challenges”.

65 skill challenges
8 professions currently available
That’s 520 skill challenges
The entire world map only has 189 skill challenges.

Go do every skill point. Now do it again. Now do 3/4 of them again. Does that seem so trivial to you? Just to get back to where we are right now?

I have 7 and only one has 100% map completion…. the rest have below 30% so I fully understand what I need to do to get all of my skills. The point remains, its stupid easy to get 65, you dont need all of those characters at 100% day one, and you can do them one at a time.

Best solution is simply to grandfather our skills over and lock us from gaining more than the max Hero points allowed in the game. Problem solved.

Grandfather=465 hero points with all skills unlocked if you had all your skills. The rest of the hero challenges can be done until reach max number of hero challenge points allowed.

max hero challenges – 465 = total number of hero challenges a grandfathered character can do before rest of hero challenges lock up.

Knighthonor.4061:

Best solution is simply to grandfather our skills over and lock us from gaining more than the max Hero points allowed in the game. Problem solved.

no, the system doesnt have a cap, it just has a limited amount of the resource.

its essentially as if your power is determined by the amount of hero points you can find. In the world there are currently only 220 places for them.
In the future, in order to get stronger, you will have to get hero points from new places.

grandfathering in the way you suggest creates a situation where you will already be at full strength without having to get any hero points. This means in the future you will not have to go to the new places to get hero points.

not only that but it means that for some players hero points will be wasted, some players wont want to get the hero points until they are uncapped, which then blocks them on world completion for those charachters.

So that solution is fairly non optimal one, you are creating a new system, but filling it with something that doesnt fit into the system architecture (hero points from no source) Its the type of solution that will keep biting you in the butt in the future.

Baldrick.8967:

Another massive shove from Anet to try and pigeonhole players into playing one or if your lucky, two toons.

I have around 30 level 80 toons, probably use ten of them on a fairly regular basis.

So that’s between 650 and 1950 times I need to hunt around pve maps doing stuff I don’t want to do to unlock build variance on my characters and have a chance at making either my existing build or a new one (as many builds are killed off by the new trait system/wvw changes).

Not to mention probably needing different armor sets on quite a few of them.

I’m glad this isn’t a grindy Korean MMO, I’d hate to see what they did then….

The more I read of this expansion the less enthusiastic I am about it. But I’ll probably still buy it, for whenever I come back to the game more regularly.

Yeah, i have a few to do myself…

Knighthonor.4061:

Grandfather=465 hero points with all skills unlocked if you had all your skills. The rest of the hero challenges can be done until reach max number of hero challenge points allowed.

max hero challenges – 465 = total number of hero challenges a grandfathered character can do before rest of hero challenges lock up.

there is no max number of hero challenge points.

its there is only so many sources in the game that give hero points. Thats a very important difference.

also there are not more than 465 hero challenges. you get 400 hero points from leveling your charachter to 80.

Baldrick.8967:

Another massive shove from Anet to try and pigeonhole players into playing one or if your lucky, two toons.

I have around 30 level 80 toons, probably use ten of them on a fairly regular basis.

So that’s between 650 and 1950 times I need to hunt around pve maps doing stuff I don’t want to do to unlock build variance on my characters and have a chance at making either my existing build or a new one (as many builds are killed off by the new trait system/wvw changes).

Not to mention probably needing different armor sets on quite a few of them.

I’m glad this isn’t a grindy Korean MMO, I’d hate to see what they did then….

The more I read of this expansion the less enthusiastic I am about it. But I’ll probably still buy it, for whenever I come back to the game more regularly.

You over extended yourself, Anet can’t restrict systems dependent on people who have 30 characters. Complaining you need to do a lot of things because you chose to create so much for yourself to do is kinda silly.

Also worth noting AGAIN, you will have access to 400/465 on EACH of those characters – you wil be able to make a few builds on each no problem.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

thrag.9740:

Zalavaaris.5329:

You all act like you are being asked to complete maps 100% to get your skills back…. how much time does it take to run up to a symbol on the map, comuning with that place of power, and going to the next? Or maybe you have to god forbid fight something that doesn’t have another player behind it. Seriously…. yes you are losing progression, sorry…. suck it up butter cup and just do the easily done “challenges”.

65 skill challenges
8 professions currently available
That’s 520 skill challenges
The entire world map only has 189 skill challenges.

Go do every skill point. Now do it again. Now do 3/4 of them again. Does that seem so trivial to you? Just to get back to where we are right now?

Do you know what!?

I have 11 characters 9 of them at level 80 and all of them have atleast 65 SPC made… I think my new toons are near 65 SPC too, you know it does not take that much time if you do the SPC at the starter zones and only goes from them.
Also you WvW-only players, you should try to do some PvE now and then anyway to get some variation. Now i agree and I feel sorry for those who have spent money and SP on traits so I would like for them to get a refund but they should not get any free HP. All new players who make alts will have to do HPC, this will be nothing different to anyone.
if you are a PvP-only player you will not be affected by this and if you are a WvW-only player you do actually have a good amount of HP to get on the WvW map. Now if you are a EotM farmer… I do not feel sorry for you at all since you ruined a good map.

I will get so flamed but this is my opinion.

ugh, im a pve exclusive player pretty much? I have 1 of every class so I can step in and do any possible dungeon/fractal role my team needs.

This is bigger than just lost gold/sp. This is about a large design philosophy shift. Previously, players could play however they wanted to earn gold and skill points. They could then use that to buy traits/skills. Now players are forced to do open world pve to become better at other game modes. So do you just prefer everyone is forced to play game modes they don’t enjoy? I prefer the “play how you want” philosophy.

How about just make hero challenges same as mastery points. One character does it, they’ve all done it. There problem solved. And while you’re at it, make wps account wide also. That way the second time you go for the world completion you’ll only have to do vistas and pois. Less grindy and boring, very alt friendly, and you still get the experience of the world the first time. You don’t need it a second time imo.

PorceleinEve.2973:

How about just make hero challenges same as mastery points. One character does it, they’ve all done it. There problem solved. And while you’re at it, make wps account wide also. That way the second time you go for the world completion you’ll only have to do vistas and pois. Less grindy and boring, very alt friendly, and you still get the experience of the world the first time. You don’t need it a second time imo.

100% support that. But your forgetting hearts, which is the majority of the grind. Also make dungeon unlocks account wide.

thrag.9740:

ugh, im a pve exclusive player pretty much? I have 1 of every class so I can step in and do any possible dungeon/fractal role my team needs.

This is bigger than just lost gold/sp. This is about a large design philosophy shift. Previously, players could play however they wanted to earn gold and skill points. They could then use that to buy traits/skills. Now players are forced to do open world pve to become better at other game modes. So do you just prefer everyone is forced to play game modes they don’t enjoy? I prefer the “play how you want” philosophy.

PVP is not affected at all, so they dont count, and they should have to play their character in PVE to use stuff in PVE. If they want to PVP then they can PVP with everything fully unlocked already.

WVW IS PVE. Anet has stated that many times, and so yes it makes sense to them that they want you to play both.

Now i agree that WVW should have at least enough hero challenges in WVW to get all 65 HP and unlock everything(That they have now). But after that, they will have to step foot in PVE to get more HP. My opinion of course, and im sure it wont be popular. I too am a pve exclusive player and all my characters, all 12 of them have at least 40 Skill points by the time they get to 80. The exception to that is my engineer, who i leveled via skill tomes. So someday ill run her through to get those 65 HP, someday.

The best solution is this:

• Allow players a way to turn skill point scrolls into Hero Points

• Players that don’t want to do this don’t have to and therefore can take part in this new progression system

• Players that don’t want to have to go earn stuff they have already earned can use their skill points for hero points

This would allow everyone to play the game how they want to play it.

Iason Evan.3806:

The best solution is this:

• Allow players a way to turn skill point scrolls into Hero Points

• Players that don’t want to do this don’t have to and therefore can take part in this new progression system

• Players that don’t want to have to go earn stuff they have already earned can use their skill points for hero points

This would allow everyone to play the game how they want to play it.

The new system is not optional xD Its the foundation of the whole specialisation progression.

Dante.1763:

thrag.9740:

ugh, im a pve exclusive player pretty much? I have 1 of every class so I can step in and do any possible dungeon/fractal role my team needs.

This is bigger than just lost gold/sp. This is about a large design philosophy shift. Previously, players could play however they wanted to earn gold and skill points. They could then use that to buy traits/skills. Now players are forced to do open world pve to become better at other game modes. So do you just prefer everyone is forced to play game modes they don’t enjoy? I prefer the “play how you want” philosophy.

PVP is not affected at all, so they dont count, and they should have to play their character in PVE to use stuff in PVE. If they want to PVP then they can PVP with everything fully unlocked already.

WVW IS PVE. Anet has stated that many times, and so yes it makes sense to them that they want you to play both.

Now i agree that WVW should have at least enough hero challenges in WVW to get all 65 HP and unlock everything(That they have now). But after that, they will have to step foot in PVE to get more HP. My opinion of course, and im sure it wont be popular. I too am a pve exclusive player and all my characters, all 12 of them have at least 40 Skill points by the time they get to 80. The exception to that is my engineer, who i leveled via skill tomes. So someday ill run her through to get those 65 HP, someday.

Should I have to “play pve” to unlock my traits in dungeons? Open world pve is boring after the first time or two. Right now, I can unlock all traits/skills playing dungeons. Or do dungeons not count too?