Guild Wars 2

Ardid.7203:

I have 4 alts at lvl 50 or so, with less than 10 skill challenges done, with only the minimum traits unlocked to make them work, but with all the skills unlocked.

Easy question:
When the patch comes live…

1- Will I have to re-earn the skills I have already unlocked?
Please answer yes or no.

2- Will I get any compensation for the gold I invested to get the traits?
Please answer yes or no.

3- Will I receive any compensation for the time I invested earning the skill points I used to unlock all the skills?
Please answer yes or no.

1 – yes
2- no
3- no
4- have fun grinding for hero point

Acinonyx Rex.8609:

Ardid.7203:

I have 4 alts at lvl 50 or so, with less than 10 skill challenges done, with only the minimum traits unlocked to make them work, but with all the skills unlocked.

Easy question:
When the patch comes live…

1- Will I have to re-earn the skills I have already unlocked?
Please answer yes or no.

2- Will I get any compensation for the gold I invested to get the traits?
Please answer yes or no.

3- Will I receive any compensation for the time I invested earning the skill points I used to unlock all the skills?
Please answer yes or no.

1 – yes
2- no
3- no
4- have fun grinding for hero point

you are actually wrong.

if he gets even 160 points for being level 50, he will be able to unlock all skills.

pretty much the only type of player coming out behind would be someone who unlocked ALL TRAITS.
even a person who was grandfathered in, and didnt do the 3/5 new trait unlocks would spend less gold/skill points to reach full unlock.

Ardid.7203:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Ardid.7203:

I have 4 alts at lvl 50 or so, with less than 10 skill challenges done, with only the minimum traits unlocked to make them work, but with all the skills unlocked.

Easy question:
When the patch comes live…

1- Will I have to re-earn the skills I have already unlocked?
Please answer yes or no.

2- Will I get any compensation for the gold I invested to get the traits?
Please answer yes or no.

3- Will I receive any compensation for the time I invested earning the skill points I used to unlock all the skills?
Please answer yes or no.

1. You’ll have to unlock all skills and traits again, but you’ll start with 400 hero points (at lv80) plus any HP for each skill challenge, out of the ~465 you need to unlock everything for your profession.

2. I don’t think so.

3. Skill challenges will still count, and other skill points will be transformed into spirit shards, so yes.

Again. LvL 50. All skills unlocked. Re-earning. Recovering gold/time. Yes or No.

probably not, depends on if they backload hero points.
assuming they dont, you will likely have enough points for all skills and more traits by level 50

My favorite build is already going to be destroyed, but, IF it’s true that with my 50 leveling I can unlock all the skills, I’m relieved. Not having the gold invested in traits refunded is still unfair, but in my specific case, is something I can deal with.

Good luck with the Hero Point chase.

Ardid.7203:

My favorite build is already going to be destroyed, but, IF it’s true that with my 50 leveling I can unlock all the skills, I’m relieved. Not having the gold invested in traits refunded is still unfair, but in my specific case, is something I can deal with.

Good luck with the Hero Point chase.

Did you post about how you think your build won’t be viable any more over in the sticky on GW2 Discussion? They were taking into consideration a lot of peoples’ builds that were losing something integral and may have even made some significant changes since the 4-hour livestream.

I don’t think I saw that sticky :S . It isn’t there anymore?

Ardid.7203:

I don’t think I saw that sticky :S . It isn’t there anymore?

Hmmm, I can’t find it any more. There was a sticky somewhere that was posted not long after the huge livestream where they were taking input from players about concerns with losing a build they had due to the trait rework. They may have removed the post, but they stated their intention was never to destroy a build and they would try to get some community input on what we felt was going to do just that and make some changes from there.

As it is, they’ve said they are making modifications to some Mesmer traitlines, Necro traitlines, and some other things like switching Elemental Attunement to a minor trait for Elementalists instead of an adept one.

phys.7689:

Kamara.4187:

I know this much- my credit card is staying in my wallet till I know more.
I’m a WvW player. “Thats what I like to do”. I invested in this game for that aspect alone.

WvW players are talking about this, and as it stands now a single large guild transferring off server can be a wrecking ball to a servers wvw play. How many are going to be upset?

I want to be optimistic, but I’ve already experienced radical “game changes” in other MMO’s that ended up creating nothing but a mass exodus. I’m not going to put myself through that again by trying to stick it out if players start falling off.

to be completely honest, most wvw hardcore players dip into pve whenever its usefull to them. At the start of this game you either spent 35-75 additional hours unlocking your skills, or you dipped into PVE.

Likewise many WvW players jumped on the champion trains in frostgorge to get gold for runes/cosmetics/etc

even one of the detractors somewhere said they go to pve to farm linen.

WvW players arent as inflexible, and ineffecient as people are making them out to be. Most of them would rather spend an hour in pve, then 30 hours in WvW. Many of them dont like people who play WvW in styles that are motivated by charachter/account building.

they dont like karma train farmers
they dont like achievement focused play
they didnt like people there to get map complete.

i dont think they would be too happy with a mass of people karma training in order to get their specialization unlocks or their extra skill points for side builds they will never use in WvW.

Trivializing what people like/dislike, or what they focused their investment in doesn’t accomplish damage control, and no, many WvW players have also made it perfectly clear in many forum post they don’t like having to leave the battlegrounds to PvE for the things they need.

I’m a new player. I paid “real money” to level my characters by way of crafting so I could jump into WvW as fast as possible. Now I’m learning that investment will be trashed over night with these changes. Do you think that would fly if Anet did the same thing to their shareholders?

Not likely without repercussions….

Kamara, are you talking about buying traits with gold? Because the leveling you got from crafting will still be there, along with the 400 HP you’ll get from being 80. You’ll have enough for two or three builds even if you never touch a skill challenge. Thus your crafting levels won’t be trashed at all.

Donari.5237:

Kamara, are you talking about buying traits with gold? Because the leveling you got from crafting will still be there, along with the 400 HP you’ll get from being 80. You’ll have enough for two or three builds even if you never touch a skill challenge. Thus your crafting levels won’t be trashed at all.

I didn’t craft because I wanted to be a crafter. I did it to level fast so I could jump into WvW. All my characters finished off their leveling in WvW, via scrolls and tomes “earned” in WvW.

Yes, I understood that. You will still be level 80, regardless of how you got to 80. Sorry, when I said “crafting levels” I meant “levels from crafting” not “crafting skill levels.”

My point is that GW2 is possibly the only MMORPG that allowed people to branch out into different types of gameplay and still have the option to jump into other types of gameplay. For instance, Arena net did a fantastic job allowing players to jump into pvp without having to worry about gears/traits/skils. But wvw and pve have always been affected by each other, and their gears and traits overlap, while the gametypes offer totally different things.

The original skill/trait system, which is the reason why I started GW2, didn’t force me to play other types of gamemode to build my character. I could reach level 80 by whatever means necessary, pay few golds to unlock my traits, collect skill points to unlock some of my skills, and then enjoy playing. I had fun creating alts because I didn’t have to devote hours and hours just to unlock some traits or skill points by completing unnecessary challenges or cause me to grind for gold and skill points to enjoy my current alts.

The current system we have now levelgates and timegates us from enjoying our alts. Map completion for 1 trait that I will never use? Fine, but now I have to do the same map completion on different characters for hours and hours to unlock that trait. If I want to unlock my traits in a different way, well I better have 43 golds and 380 skill points! This really bars me from enjoying different types of gameplay other than pvp because now I have to pay a lot more than before to have the same experience I once had. Instead of gear grind, now we have trait grind.

What is wrong with not wanting to do the same skill challenge/to complete same map for 8th times to play wvw/pve in optimal ways? Is there something wrong with me wanting to unlock certain skills and not bothering to unlock some skills I want? Why do I have to do hero challenges when I already have 2 characters with map completion and have already spent possibly thousands of skill points and hundreds of golds after the trait patch just to unlock some traits that originally costed hundred times less than before?

There is no possible way to justify what anet has done, or will do with trait/skill unlock. The old way of unlocking traits and skill points were fine, and they were certainly not broken. In fact the old system was encouraging people to create alts to enjoy whatever they are doing. Yet now, we are forced behind these restrictions and grinds and now randomized skill unlocks that will force us to grind more for map completion.

Completing any part of the map, whether for skill points, POI, or waypoint is still a map completion no matter how you put it. And certain classes with lack of mobility such as necros and mesmers have the biggest disadvantage. I know and understand that Tyria of GW2 is a very beautiful, fun place to explore. However after playing this game for 2 years (I started a bit late) and with 2 map completed characters, and with no change in maps other than few POis added, I am not interesting in map completion unless I want to earn more gift of exploration.

There is nothing wrong with each one of us playing Gw2 in different game type. However it is definitely not fair for those who aren’t interested in map completion to be forced to earn hero points especially when anet choose to make hero points character bound. If I want my characters to play wvw and pve while having their map completion to bare minimum or none, then I should be able to do so as long as I max out my characters’ level and acquire the gears of my choosing.

This new upcoming change will be devastating for all of us who will now have to worry about logging on to each individual alts to explore the same places multiple times.

Dont make a MMO that uses a limited action bar, if you dont want us to have many options to customizing the small action bar…

Anet is following bad design logic inhouse.

Knighthonor.4061:

Dont make a MMO that uses a limited action bar, if you dont want us to have many options to customizing the small action bar…

Anet is following bad design logic inhouse.

i dont understand what you are trying to say here.

phys.7689:

Knighthonor.4061:

Dont make a MMO that uses a limited action bar, if you dont want us to have many options to customizing the small action bar…

Anet is following bad design logic inhouse.

i dont understand what you are trying to say here.

Best to ignore what he says.

TheFamster.7806:

My point is that GW2 is possibly the only MMORPG that allowed people to branch out into different types of gameplay and still have the option to jump into other types of gameplay. For instance, Arena net did a fantastic job allowing players to jump into pvp without having to worry about gears/traits/skils. But wvw and pve have always been affected by each other, and their gears and traits overlap, while the gametypes offer totally different things.

The original skill/trait system, which is the reason why I started GW2, didn’t force me to play other types of gamemode to build my character. I could reach level 80 by whatever means necessary, pay few golds to unlock my traits, collect skill points to unlock some of my skills, and then enjoy playing. I had fun creating alts because I didn’t have to devote hours and hours just to unlock some traits or skill points by completing unnecessary challenges or cause me to grind for gold and skill points to enjoy my current alts.

The current system we have now levelgates and timegates us from enjoying our alts. Map completion for 1 trait that I will never use? Fine, but now I have to do the same map completion on different characters for hours and hours to unlock that trait. If I want to unlock my traits in a different way, well I better have 43 golds and 380 skill points! This really bars me from enjoying different types of gameplay other than pvp because now I have to pay a lot more than before to have the same experience I once had. Instead of gear grind, now we have trait grind.

This new upcoming change will be devastating for all of us who will now have to worry about logging on to each individual alts to explore the same places multiple times.

you really havent been listening have you?

you will be able to unlock any build, and all skills with the amount of points you get just for leveling to 80.

optimal builds do not use all skills/traits at one time.

NO BUILD WILL EVER USE MORE THAN 3 SPECIALIZATIONS ANY MORE.
this means that you can unlock whatever top end build you want with hero points to spare, before you ever leave WvW.

in fact you will be able to unlock multiple top end builds, most people will have no need to do a single skill point, and keep in mind WvW has like 15-20 right now

you dont have to unlock every skill to get what you want in the new system.

you choose what skill types to unlock, and you choose which specializations to unlock.
you do it one at a time.

you are getting overly caught up in your expectations, and not the reality of the changes.

just for being level 80, you will earn 400 hero points.
you can choose which skill types or which specializations you want to unlock.

there are about 21-25 utilities and 3 elites to unlock

this basically means 130-165 of your hero points if you decide to fully unlock all skills.

you dont like venoms? dont unlock them at all, congrats you saved 25-35 points, dont need the last two venoms? you save 10 points.

even with full skill unlock you will have 270-235 points left.

each specialization line is 60 points, you choose which ones you want to level, and how far down you want to go into them.

so basically you can unlock 4/5 specializations if you do the skill points in WvW.
seeing as how no build can use more than 3 specializations at a time now, that essentially means you will have unlocked, with zero grinding more builds than you could ever have done before. If you did all the WvW skill challenges you will have 416 hero points.

im sorry but the sky is not falling, you wont have to play pve at all to have optimal WvW builds. You WILL be able to get some skills, and ignore others. You will be able to get some traits and ignore others. And you will have more builds with less grinding than ever before.

and you dont have to explore the same places.
you only need 50 non WvW points, or less depending how many the new wvw maps have.
since there is currently like 189 skill points there is many different combinations that can lead you to the 65 you need.
in HOT there will be more skill challenges, so there will be even less repeats if thats what you desire.

ok famster ill make it simple for you,
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgABqAKoA6g~

pick any build
tell me what skills/traits you want to use.

i will tell you roughly how many hero points you will need to unlock it. I guarantee it will always be lower than 400

So you saying, people in WvW should be happy with the change, because we only play 1 build anyway?

ok….

Knighthonor.4061:

So you saying, people in WvW should be happy with the change, because we only play 1 build anyway?

ok….

no, 400 points unlocks most builds.

go ahead give me multiple builds on a job and i will tell you how many points you need.

phys.7689:

Knighthonor.4061:

So you saying, people in WvW should be happy with the change, because we only play 1 build anyway?

ok….

no, 400 points unlocks most builds.

go ahead give me multiple builds on a job and i will tell you how many points you need.

You haven’t really played gw2 beyond living story haven’t you? It doesn’t matter if specialization is only up to 6 traits because there might be a skill that I must get that is locked beyond other skills. Also if you played speedrunning I frequently change my skills and traits for different purposes. Also even in WvW, some people do frequently change their build regardless of it being 6 6 6 . What 6 6 6 means is that now instead of changing a trait or two, the entire trait lines will be emptied and reinvested in another line for the sake of optimal running.

Also keep in mind that I am one of those players who likes to do everything, from jumping puzzles to wvw to pve to pvp. Which means I do need to unlock most if not all traits/skills to experiment and adapt to everchanging meta. Let me ask you this. Have you ever had any experience in organized group settings, whether that be pvp, pve, or wvw? I assume you never had such experience because you lack the in-depth understanding of complex GW2 combat in all areas, hence you do not realize why having different traits and skills are necessary even when you deem that they are not much of use.

Different gamemodes utilize different modes, and the current trait system in fact forced me to choose one game mode per character due to its massive gold and skill point. Some people do play for efficiency, and not care about having to do skill challenge at all. In fact there will be a guide coming up that would focus on completing the most efficient skill/hero challenge when the patch lands. Maybe its time for you to actually explore how and why certain skills and traits are used in different situations instead of tunnel visioning into only 3 trait lines.

Also your post completely ignores the trait change on flight. You may not have encountered much use for that, but guess what! There are people who actually use those to change traits before/after combats in pve and wvw! Gasp! And guess those people don’t exist to you? Oh and there are people who play both pve and wvw on the same character! And those builds use different traits and gears! I guess that was a news falsh to you

TheFamster.7806:

phys.7689:

Knighthonor.4061:

So you saying, people in WvW should be happy with the change, because we only play 1 build anyway?

ok….

no, 400 points unlocks most builds.

go ahead give me multiple builds on a job and i will tell you how many points you need.

You haven’t really played gw2 beyond living story haven’t you? It doesn’t matter if specialization is only up to 6 traits because there might be a skill that I must get that is locked beyond other skills. Also if you played speedrunning I frequently change my skills and traits for different purposes. Also even in WvW, some people do frequently change their build regardless of it being 6 6 6 . What 6 6 6 means is that now instead of changing a trait or two, the entire trait lines will be emptied and reinvested in another line for the sake of optimal running.

Also keep in mind that I am one of those players who likes to do everything, from jumping puzzles to wvw to pve to pvp. Which means I do need to unlock most if not all traits/skills to experiment and adapt to everchanging meta. Let me ask you this. Have you ever had any experience in organized group settings, whether that be pvp, pve, or wvw? I assume you never had such experience because you lack the in-depth understanding of complex GW2 combat in all areas, hence you do not realize why having different traits and skills are necessary even when you deem that they are not much of use.

Different gamemodes utilize different modes, and the current trait system in fact forced me to choose one game mode per character due to its massive gold and skill point. Some people do play for efficiency, and not care about having to do skill challenge at all. In fact there will be a guide coming up that would focus on completing the most efficient skill/hero challenge when the patch lands. Maybe its time for you to actually explore how and why certain skills and traits are used in different situations instead of tunnel visioning into only 3 trait lines.

Also your post completely ignores the trait change on flight. You may not have encountered much use for that, but guess what! There are people who actually use those to change traits before/after combats in pve and wvw! Gasp! And guess those people don’t exist to you? Oh and there are people who play both pve and wvw on the same character! And those builds use different traits and gears! I guess that was a news falsh to you

If you play PVE then the whole beef about having to leave WvW to get progress is irrelevant. If you frequently use your charchter in PVE, then getting a few skill points is not really a big deal.

I never said other builds are worthless, i said you can have many optimal builds, most of the meta builds with minimal points.

you realize that right now, you have skills locked behind other skills, a teir 3 utility right now means you have to spend 26 points to get up to it. the third elite needs 50 points.

and you dont have to get every skill.

you have 400 points.
if you dont use 1 of the elites, you save 15 points.
if you dont use the 2nd or 3rd grandmaster in a specialization line, you save 5-10 points
if you dont use a specialization line at all, you save 60 points
if you dont use a family of traps, you save 20 points
if you dont use the last physical skill, you save 5 points.

if you need every single thing, because you play so many different game modes, and so many different types of content, from running cross map, farming linen, dungeon running, etc Then skill challenges is content that fits in with those types of things.

and ill say it again
400 points is enough for MULTIPLE BUILDS,

go ahead give me some real builds you will use, and i will tell you approximately how many points you will need to unlock them all.

there are many combinations of builds that can be achieved with 400 points. gear is irrelevant to this discussion btw.

I still think the absolute biggest problem with this update, is the lack of variety in progression style. Yes you can do whatever you want to get to level 80. But going beyond lv 80, for example unlocking all traits/skills, unlocking elite specializations, can only be done in open world pve.

At level 80 you can unlock multiple builds, including the ones you would use at higher level content. It just stinks that you cant play that higher level content to unlock the rest of your builds, and are instead forced to play the open world pve that so many of us find boring the 3rd,5th,9th, nth time around. What is even worse than this lack of choice, is that previously we had so much choice.

my current necro build is :

6,2,2,2,2. Using 5,7,13, then 6,5,6,2.

Knights set, condi foods, earth runes, combination of trinkets, sig of corrupt.

How many points will I need to replicate the build?

Guess what? It’s ‘sub optimal’ according to the meta, but guess what? When I use it it’s remarkably effective in wvw as well as very survivable.

How close can I get in the new points system, especially given the loss of the trait line points into gears, etc etc?

Gear is FAR from irrelevant, given that they seem to be taking the points out of the trait lines and putting it in to gear. In fact, gear will be more important to achieve the balance of stats that is my preferred play style.

But maybe we should just be forced into spvp style with one trinket and one type of armor, or just go that one step further and just have everyone only able to select from gw2 guru approved builds?

Baldrick.8967:

my current necro build is :

6,2,2,2,2. Using 5,7,13, then 6,5,6,2.

Knights set, condi foods, earth runes, combination of trinkets, sig of corrupt.

How many points will I need to replicate the build?

Guess what? It’s ‘sub optimal’ according to the meta, but guess what? When I use it it’s remarkably effective in wvw as well as very survivable.

How close can I get in the new points system, especially given the loss of the trait line points into gears, etc etc?

Gear is FAR from irrelevant, given that they seem to be taking the points out of the trait lines and putting it in to gear. In fact, gear will be more important to achieve the balance of stats that is my preferred play style.

But maybe we should just be forced into spvp style with one trinket and one type of armor, or just go that one step further and just have everyone only able to select from gw2 guru approved builds?

im not saying gear serves no purpose, im saying it has little to do with trait/skill aquisistion.

you cant do 5 specialization traitline builds anymore. Some traits got merged and juggled.

also as far as i can see many of the traits you liked no longer exist.
spite V retaliation when enetering death shroud, kind of changed, now it does two things
spite VII marks deal more damage, dont see it anymore.
spite XIII far as i can see it doesnt exist anymore
curses VI is baseline now, wells are ground targeted no matter what
death magic V got merged in to soul reaping

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBqAXkBLg~

this is probably closest to what you had

you would use 160 points in specializations to unlock the build i just linked.
what skills do you use.
assuming you unlock every skill it will probably be about 320 hero points.

I hope we can earn all of our points in wvw. Maybe 1 point after each wvw lvl. 60 lvls are ~15 days if you are a casual while gathering 60 skill challenge is an afternoon (or 2)

Just wondering, can hero points be reallocated like traits?
I have nowhere seen this being explicitly confirmed or denied.

ybz.6547:

Just wondering, can hero points be reallocated like traits?
I have nowhere seen this being explicitly confirmed or denied.

No, when you spend then that is it. Same as now with skill points, when you unlock some skill you can’t remove it anymore.

phys.7689:

Baldrick.8967:

my current necro build is :

6,2,2,2,2. Using 5,7,13, then 6,5,6,2.

Knights set, condi foods, earth runes, combination of trinkets, sig of corrupt.

How many points will I need to replicate the build?

Guess what? It’s ‘sub optimal’ according to the meta, but guess what? When I use it it’s remarkably effective in wvw as well as very survivable.

How close can I get in the new points system, especially given the loss of the trait line points into gears, etc etc?

Gear is FAR from irrelevant, given that they seem to be taking the points out of the trait lines and putting it in to gear. In fact, gear will be more important to achieve the balance of stats that is my preferred play style.

But maybe we should just be forced into spvp style with one trinket and one type of armor, or just go that one step further and just have everyone only able to select from gw2 guru approved builds?

im not saying gear serves no purpose, im saying it has little to do with trait/skill aquisistion.

you cant do 5 specialization traitline builds anymore. Some traits got merged and juggled.

also as far as i can see many of the traits you liked no longer exist.
spite V retaliation when enetering death shroud, kind of changed, now it does two things
spite VII marks deal more damage, dont see it anymore.
spite XIII far as i can see it doesnt exist anymore
curses VI is baseline now, wells are ground targeted no matter what
death magic V got merged in to soul reaping

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBqAXkBLg~

this is probably closest to what you had

you would use 160 points in specializations to unlock the build i just linked.
what skills do you use.
assuming you unlock every skill it will probably be about 320 hero points.

So my build is dead and I’ll have to restrict myself to some pigeonholed build instead.

So can i make that build with the 400 I got for being 80 or do you mean I have to find 160 points (which sounds rather more than 65).

Probably use the elite line, which will be more points again?

I’m not looking forward to the incoming restrictions – most games expand build choice as they develop, GW2 is ground breaking in the sense with every update they restrict it- first the NPE (No Players Ever) and now restricting builds to three badly constructed lines.

Baldrick.8967:

phys.7689:

Baldrick.8967:

my current necro build is :

6,2,2,2,2. Using 5,7,13, then 6,5,6,2.

Knights set, condi foods, earth runes, combination of trinkets, sig of corrupt.

How many points will I need to replicate the build?

Guess what? It’s ‘sub optimal’ according to the meta, but guess what? When I use it it’s remarkably effective in wvw as well as very survivable.

How close can I get in the new points system, especially given the loss of the trait line points into gears, etc etc?

Gear is FAR from irrelevant, given that they seem to be taking the points out of the trait lines and putting it in to gear. In fact, gear will be more important to achieve the balance of stats that is my preferred play style.

But maybe we should just be forced into spvp style with one trinket and one type of armor, or just go that one step further and just have everyone only able to select from gw2 guru approved builds?

im not saying gear serves no purpose, im saying it has little to do with trait/skill aquisistion.

you cant do 5 specialization traitline builds anymore. Some traits got merged and juggled.

also as far as i can see many of the traits you liked no longer exist.
spite V retaliation when enetering death shroud, kind of changed, now it does two things
spite VII marks deal more damage, dont see it anymore.
spite XIII far as i can see it doesnt exist anymore
curses VI is baseline now, wells are ground targeted no matter what
death magic V got merged in to soul reaping

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBqAXkBLg~

this is probably closest to what you had

you would use 160 points in specializations to unlock the build i just linked.
what skills do you use.
assuming you unlock every skill it will probably be about 320 hero points.

So my build is dead and I’ll have to restrict myself to some pigeonholed build instead.

So can i make that build with the 400 I got for being 80 or do you mean I have to find 160 points (which sounds rather more than 65).

Probably use the elite line, which will be more points again?

I’m not looking forward to the incoming restrictions – most games expand build choice as they develop, GW2 is ground breaking in the sense with every update they restrict it- first the NPE (No Players Ever) and now restricting builds to three badly constructed lines.

nah, you ll have more than enough.

looks like marks dmg is baseline now, so you just lost one, unless i just cant find it.

specs have a lot less variety now, but you generally get more power. I dont love that aspect really, but what can you do, to be honest builds are changing a lot for everyone, its kind of different system.

nowadays games actually seem to do this often. Especially games with more options. i dont think its great but everyone is aiming for simplicity these days

changes coming next week, we ll see if they have any type of grandfathering planned.

Baldrick.8967:

phys.7689:

Baldrick.8967:

my current necro build is :

6,2,2,2,2. Using 5,7,13, then 6,5,6,2.

Knights set, condi foods, earth runes, combination of trinkets, sig of corrupt.

How many points will I need to replicate the build?

Guess what? It’s ‘sub optimal’ according to the meta, but guess what? When I use it it’s remarkably effective in wvw as well as very survivable.

How close can I get in the new points system, especially given the loss of the trait line points into gears, etc etc?

Gear is FAR from irrelevant, given that they seem to be taking the points out of the trait lines and putting it in to gear. In fact, gear will be more important to achieve the balance of stats that is my preferred play style.

But maybe we should just be forced into spvp style with one trinket and one type of armor, or just go that one step further and just have everyone only able to select from gw2 guru approved builds?

im not saying gear serves no purpose, im saying it has little to do with trait/skill aquisistion.

you cant do 5 specialization traitline builds anymore. Some traits got merged and juggled.

also as far as i can see many of the traits you liked no longer exist.
spite V retaliation when enetering death shroud, kind of changed, now it does two things
spite VII marks deal more damage, dont see it anymore.
spite XIII far as i can see it doesnt exist anymore
curses VI is baseline now, wells are ground targeted no matter what
death magic V got merged in to soul reaping

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBqAXkBLg~

this is probably closest to what you had

you would use 160 points in specializations to unlock the build i just linked.
what skills do you use.
assuming you unlock every skill it will probably be about 320 hero points.

So my build is dead and I’ll have to restrict myself to some pigeonholed build instead.

So can i make that build with the 400 I got for being 80 or do you mean I have to find 160 points (which sounds rather more than 65).

Probably use the elite line, which will be more points again?

I’m not looking forward to the incoming restrictions – most games expand build choice as they develop, GW2 is ground breaking in the sense with every update they restrict it- first the NPE (No Players Ever) and now restricting builds to three badly constructed lines.

Phys is saying that you can make a very similar build with far fewer Hero Points than you might think. You will only need to use slightly more than half of all of the HPs you get just for being 80 to make a build that was like what you had before.

There was a time shortly after the 4-hour livestream where they had a sticky somewhere (with hundreds of replies) of builds that would be damaged by these changes. They took those posts into account and have made some changes to the traits to try and accommodate the heavily-affected builds. They stated it was never their intention to permanently destroy builds, but if you’re not even willing to try and build what you had back up then that’s your prerogative. You might even be able to build something better than what you had.

phys.7689:

changes coming next week, we ll see if they have any type of grandfathering planned.

Grandfathering makes absolutely no sense in the new system. It’s just an impossible thing to do, unless the game retroactively gives you completed hero challenges for hero challenges that you haven’t done yet, which seems rather unlikely.

DiogoSilva.7089:

phys.7689:

changes coming next week, we ll see if they have any type of grandfathering planned.

Grandfathering makes absolutely no sense in the new system. It’s just an impossible thing to do, unless the game retroactively gives you completed hero challenges for hero challenges that you haven’t done yet, which seems rather unlikely.

there are methods which achieve an approximation of grandfathering.
but they would require dev time of course.

TheFamster.7806:

Also keep in mind that I am one of those players who likes to do everything, from jumping puzzles to wvw to pve to pvp.

This sentence invalidates your entire arguement. If you are “one of those players who likes to do everything” then just do it and stop complaining.

Don’t worry. The guy who sold you the wallpaper you spent so much time hanging is only going to take down about 20% of it. Really, how many rooms in your home to you actually need? Just pick the one room for him to strip, and you can live in the other four. Four rooms should be enough for anybody, right? After all, there are people in large cities that only live in one room.

Or, you can always rehang the wallpaper in the fifth room. After all, you wanted to be a homeowner, and that’s what being a homeowner is all about, doing home improvement.

Roses. Sunshine. All is happiness.

phys.7689:

ok famster ill make it simple for you,
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgABqAKoA6g~

pick any build
tell me what skills/traits you want to use.

i will tell you roughly how many hero points you will need to unlock it. I guarantee it will always be lower than 400

I would like to be able to switch to any build. After all, they specifically took away the respec guy and the fee for changing my build so that I’d have the freedom to do so.

How many hero points will I need for my current ability to use any skill and trait I see fit?

Gibson.4036:

phys.7689:

ok famster ill make it simple for you,
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgABqAKoA6g~

pick any build
tell me what skills/traits you want to use.

i will tell you roughly how many hero points you will need to unlock it. I guarantee it will always be lower than 400

I would like to be able to switch to any build. After all, they specifically took away the respec guy and the fee for changing my build so that I’d have the freedom to do so.

How many hero points will I need for my current ability to use any skill and trait I see fit?

460ish

phys.7689:

Baldrick.8967:

phys.7689:

Baldrick.8967:

my current necro build is :

6,2,2,2,2. Using 5,7,13, then 6,5,6,2.

Knights set, condi foods, earth runes, combination of trinkets, sig of corrupt.

How many points will I need to replicate the build?

Guess what? It’s ‘sub optimal’ according to the meta, but guess what? When I use it it’s remarkably effective in wvw as well as very survivable.

How close can I get in the new points system, especially given the loss of the trait line points into gears, etc etc?

Gear is FAR from irrelevant, given that they seem to be taking the points out of the trait lines and putting it in to gear. In fact, gear will be more important to achieve the balance of stats that is my preferred play style.

But maybe we should just be forced into spvp style with one trinket and one type of armor, or just go that one step further and just have everyone only able to select from gw2 guru approved builds?

im not saying gear serves no purpose, im saying it has little to do with trait/skill aquisistion.

you cant do 5 specialization traitline builds anymore. Some traits got merged and juggled.

also as far as i can see many of the traits you liked no longer exist.
spite V retaliation when enetering death shroud, kind of changed, now it does two things
spite VII marks deal more damage, dont see it anymore.
spite XIII far as i can see it doesnt exist anymore
curses VI is baseline now, wells are ground targeted no matter what
death magic V got merged in to soul reaping

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBqAXkBLg~

this is probably closest to what you had

you would use 160 points in specializations to unlock the build i just linked.
what skills do you use.
assuming you unlock every skill it will probably be about 320 hero points.

So my build is dead and I’ll have to restrict myself to some pigeonholed build instead.

So can i make that build with the 400 I got for being 80 or do you mean I have to find 160 points (which sounds rather more than 65).

Probably use the elite line, which will be more points again?

I’m not looking forward to the incoming restrictions – most games expand build choice as they develop, GW2 is ground breaking in the sense with every update they restrict it- first the NPE (No Players Ever) and now restricting builds to three badly constructed lines.

nah, you ll have more than enough.

looks like marks dmg is baseline now, so you just lost one, unless i just cant find it.

specs have a lot less variety now, but you generally get more power. I dont love that aspect really, but what can you do, to be honest builds are changing a lot for everyone, its kind of different system.

nowadays games actually seem to do this often. Especially games with more options. i dont think its great but everyone is aiming for simplicity these days

Good if I can get close the the stats I had – I have to take into account the effects on foods, etc as well as a limited supply of laurels to get ascended trinkets – as well as work out which armor pieces I’ll need after all the other changes so the build synergies kick in.

The big challenge now will be to get a new working build that works for me given the 3 lines restriction, which just seems such a huge step backwards..and then work a way around that nerf to my main heal too…

Looks like my engi might have the dust blown off it for a while judging by some of the changes.

phys.7689:

Gibson.4036:

phys.7689:

ok famster ill make it simple for you,
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgABqAKoA6g~

pick any build
tell me what skills/traits you want to use.

i will tell you roughly how many hero points you will need to unlock it. I guarantee it will always be lower than 400

I would like to be able to switch to any build. After all, they specifically took away the respec guy and the fee for changing my build so that I’d have the freedom to do so.

How many hero points will I need for my current ability to use any skill and trait I see fit?

460ish

For core specializations. I believe you will also need more for elite specializations.

Also, as I remember it correctly, in the portal beta you had to gain experience on your lv 80 character to unlock a mastery, then you had to spend some sort of points you found on the map on it to unlock. Does anyone remember if those points were called heros points? Are we going to be choosing between unlocking combat abilities and hand glider abilities?

edit: I just checked the wiki. They were called mastery points, which you earn pretty much like skill points now/ heros points soon. So you gain exp to finish tracks, which allows you the option to spend your mastery points there.

The whole point for me is that all 14 of my lvl 80 toons have been able to switch to any trait/skill combo I want, on a whim, any time. I worked to get them all to that point. I would never have bought the additional slots if I hadn’t had that ability. I don’t like having to re-earn it on most of my toons.

We now have learned that ascended gear is becoming more expensive, so, that’s even more build diversity gone.

ugh and if u dont like pve and mainly wvw and pvp u will be once again left out and overlooked by anet. but in general anet has already proven to me that they dont care about me as a veteran player anyways so its not worth even thinking about this stupid expansion that destroys the fun for me. good thing fallout and other great games,that might care about me as a player are coming out.

This seem to be overshadowed by the new drama on price…

Eponet.4829:

We now have learned that ascended gear is becoming more expensive, so, that’s even more build diversity gone.

Where did we learn that? I seem to have missed it. In fact, with the new option of stat changing, it may become even cheaper.

And finally the answer. Turns out ‘grand-fathering’ in wasn’t so impossible after all: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Skill-points-and-Spirit-Shards/first#post5187859

This is a nice change for people that bought all their skills with gold. Glad they did this.

Bettik.4982:

And finally the answer. Turns out ‘grand-fathering’ in wasn’t so impossible after all: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Skill-points-and-Spirit-Shards/first#post5187859

actually thats not grandfathering, they basically gave everyone everything.

Its a possible solution, the main draw back will be how they handle having too many skill points.

Its possible they will increase the amount needed to unlock/get the specializations. However it does resolve the issue of how to handle past accounts. Not great for the long term, but sometimes you cant put a new system in without breaking some things

my suggestion for the excess hero points?
unique skill/charachter animations for certain abilities, though i know it wont happen.

It can be an npc who sells it to you,

getting all skill challenges for core can cause him to offer you a challenging fight (like liadri)
which unlocks a unique mini and a title. The mini mimes you when using skills perhaps. (no dmg just looks)

just ideas

phys.7689:

Bettik.4982:

And finally the answer. Turns out ‘grand-fathering’ in wasn’t so impossible after all: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Skill-points-and-Spirit-Shards/first#post5187859

actually thats not grandfathering, they basically gave everyone everything.

Its a possible solution, the main draw back will be how they handle having too many skill points.

Its possible they will increase the amount needed to unlock/get the specializations. However it does resolve the issue of how to handle past accounts. Not great for the long term, but sometimes you cant put a new system in without breaking some things

Having too many skill points might not be so bad though. It would mean that you wouldn’t have to finish a World Completion to unlock everything, just like how you could unlock hero challenges while leveling to have everything unlocked before level 80.

MiniEquine.6014:

phys.7689:

Bettik.4982:

And finally the answer. Turns out ‘grand-fathering’ in wasn’t so impossible after all: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Skill-points-and-Spirit-Shards/first#post5187859

actually thats not grandfathering, they basically gave everyone everything.

Its a possible solution, the main draw back will be how they handle having too many skill points.

Its possible they will increase the amount needed to unlock/get the specializations. However it does resolve the issue of how to handle past accounts. Not great for the long term, but sometimes you cant put a new system in without breaking some things

Having too many skill points might not be so bad though. It would mean that you wouldn’t have to finish a World Completion to unlock everything, just like how you could unlock hero challenges while leveling to have everything unlocked before level 80.

if they didnt care if you have too many it would be fine, but they do. from their old plan i think they dont intend you have to world complete, but they want you to have to do a number of them to get elite spec progress. my guess is about 60-90, and that they will probably have a decent portion of that in the new maps. I think they want people to have only up to 100 extra if they do everything in the game and unlock everything.

which basically means they would have enough for the next spec, but as they buy it, new skill points will be needed before the next spec after that is enacted.

i just hope the dont go with the simple answer and up the req for elite specs to compensate.

They made the right call after all. If you have excess skill challenges done, then you just get more spirit shards. You see, it does make sense to give feedback. I don’t think this has a real downside, despite the incessant posts of a few trolls to the contrary.