Guild Wars 2

Hero spec cost for elite specs may be a bit too high.

For a game that was praised for its freedom of progression and dynamic content, it’s taking another step back.

The static Hero Point challenges are not that interesting and requires map exploration which most players are not interested in playing.

How will WvW players, who spend most of their time there, suppose to get Hero Points to unlock Elite Specs?

What about SPvP players that level in SPvP mostly?

What about players that run meta events most of the time?

I have one character with more than 70% world completion. Rest are very low. But that’s because I play the content I enjoy, not just to get a badge of honor for doing every little thing in the world map.

Bad gateing design honestly.

…have we even heard what the cost will specifically be?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

…have we even heard what the cost will specifically be?

I heard rumors the cost to unlock all skill and trait for Elite Specialization is 170 Skill points ( 85 for all skills and 85 for all traits)

However, that is just the rumors I heard.

If this is true I wonder how will they provide more skill points for future Elite Specializations since currently there is not enough to support a 2nd Elite Specialization if they decide to release new ones during Season Updates with the 170 skill point requirement.

There is also the matter of how many new Skill Point challenges will be in HoT.

Most players? Is there a poll or some metrics information I’ve missed? Have they released the cost of using Elite Specializations or every manner in which HPs might be obtained somewhere?

It was data mined and posted on Reddit so it’s not final yet. The data mined numbers do seem to be a bit too much though.

Pretty sure everything is unlocked regardless of hero points for us PvPer’s

Hard to say if its too high without knowing what else might be added to help us obtain Hero Points.

the numbers on the data mined info are indeed way to high, specially considering this is how they intent to introduce future elite specs.

if they don’t lower the cost they will be creating hero point grind in the future.

Want to unlock X new elite spec fully ? here go grind these newly introduced 200 hero points 1st.

That’s not good for the longevity of game at all.

The rumor is that to unlock all the gear, you’ll need 250 hero points. Luckily I have 327 hero points sitting on my main, the benefits of not having bought any skills or traitlines that I didn’t intend to use. A lot of my other characters will be in trouble though, because once I got world completion on one, I really didn’t make it a practice to explore a whole lot with the others, so a lot of them are sitting fairly low.

latinkuro.7304:

Want to unlock X new elite spec fully ? here go grind these newly introduced 200 hero points 1st.

That can easily be countered however by simply increasing how many points are rewarded per challenge. Hero challenges in the next expansion could reward 10 points each for example.

I heard another rumour that said getting level 80 and every hero-challenge in existance should be enough (if you didn’t craft legendaries and had to spend points for one of the gifts, i guess).

I heard another rumour that said getting level 80 and every hero-challenge in existance should be enough (if you didn’t craft legendaries and had to spend points for one of the gifts, i guess).

I believe it didn’t matter how many SPs you spent on stuff before the changeover, you got the right amount when they did it even if you’d already spent them. That is to say, you automatically get 398 hero points by leveling to 80. You can earn another 214 from currently available skillpoint nodes.

Now even if before the change, you’d bought none of the abilities and spent all of those points on crafting materials, when the change hit you would have ended up with 612 Hero points sitting in your balance, ready to spend on abilities.

Now where long time players have lost hero points is that if they’d put any points into any traitlines prior to the changeover, then the game automatically maxed out three of those traitlines for you, at a cost of 60 points each. If you had any skills unlocked before the change, the game automatically bought those skills again, spending your points to do so. So if you had everything available unlocked, then the game would have spent at least 278 points for you. You then might have chosen to spend another 120 points buying the remaining two trait lines, leaving you with only 218 remaining points, and that’s only if you’d had world completion.

Basically just hitting level 80 is enough to gain all the core traitlines and skills, but if you haven’t bought all of them, it leaves a lot of points left over to invest in the elite specs.

In any case, it really isn’t all that onerous to run out and pick up every skillpoint in the world. Even if you mainly PvP or WvW it shouldn’t take more than a few hours, less if you do it in small groups. Getting all the heart quests is far more involved.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Most players? Is there a poll or some metrics information I’ve missed?

Sigh I know right? He seems to know what most players are interested, because clearly its the same as his interests. Forget the large abundance of players that have Legedary Weapons… they didn’t do world completion or anything.

Just another case of “I don’t want to have to work to get my progression”.

I’m 100% percent fine with having to work a bit for my elite specialization. I don’t want to purchase the expansion and immediately get the specialization. Getting a desired skillset is half the fun! People in sPvP should unlock it on day one as usual, but in PvE I want to work a bit on this. My preference would be to get an epic quest for the specialization, but that’s probably too much to ask so skill points will do.

i knew they were going to increase the required hero points to make up for giving out the base skills/traits from just leveling.

Now all players have to work harder for less skills, congratulations

if you are referring to the datamined stuff it is not official until anet announces it.

Seems a little low to me. It is an elite spec made for progression, not a casual lazy give it to me for free on launch day spec.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Seems a little low to me. It is an elite spec made for progression, not a casual lazy give it to me for free on launch day spec.

Grinding low level zones for hero challenges doesn’t sound elite to me either.

Gynok.1756:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Seems a little low to me. It is an elite spec made for progression, not a casual lazy give it to me for free on launch day spec.

Grinding low level zones for hero challenges doesn’t sound elite to me either.

You can’t grind hero points, and they can be gotten primarily through HoT zones, which are all level 80… so… yeah.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Gynok.1756:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Seems a little low to me. It is an elite spec made for progression, not a casual lazy give it to me for free on launch day spec.

Grinding low level zones for hero challenges doesn’t sound elite to me either.

You can’t grind hero points, and they can be gotten primarily through HoT zones, which are all level 80… so… yeah.

How is doing same 100+ hero challenges through multiple different characters not considered to be grind?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Gynok.1756:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Seems a little low to me. It is an elite spec made for progression, not a casual lazy give it to me for free on launch day spec.

Grinding low level zones for hero challenges doesn’t sound elite to me either.

You can’t grind hero points, and they can be gotten primarily through HoT zones, which are all level 80… so… yeah.

You sure you’re not confusing Hero points with Mastery points? Because you can currently get a lot of Hero points in the Core maps while we have no idea how many Hero points will be in the new maps.

Of course you can “grind” Hero Points, if that’s all you focus on doing is going from one point to another.

I am fine with running about getting the Skillpoints, but, like others have said, I feel the number is too high.

Ohoni-I am curious about something. you said…

“In any case, it really isn’t all that onerous to run out and pick up every skillpoint in the world. Even if you mainly PvP or WvW it shouldn’t take more than a few hours, less if you do it in small groups. Getting all the heart quests is far more involved.”

How is it that you can suck up every skill point in the world in just a few hours? I can see it if your maps are all uncovered and all you have to do is waypoint everywhere…but what if the maps are yet to be explored?

What is your secret? I think a lot of us are going to want to know your method.

Lisa-Off to work.

XD not really sure what the big deal is, at lvl 80 you can already unlock pretty much all your specs. all you need to do is just go out and get more spec points right? or did the whole map completion thing slip your mind all of a sudden?

XD WvW there a total of 12 spec points. then you got what 3-5 spec challenges all around the PvE maps. all of that should be wll over what you’de need to fill in 4 more 5 or even 6 more specs. XD just relax and go with the flow.

You don’t even need to do map completion. Just run around and do more hero challenge, which are easy. A little work won’t kill you.

85 HP for the trait like seem ok, but 85 for the skills? That’s insane. Based on what our current skills cost us, it should cost between 20-40 not 85.

Thaddeus.4891:

You don’t even need to do map completion. Just run around and do more hero challenge, which are easy. A little work won’t kill you.

85 HP for the trait like seem ok, but 85 for the skills? That’s insane. Based on what our current skills cost us, it should cost between 20-40 not 85.

spec unlock basically requires an almost full map run of skill points.

Julischka Bean.7491:

I am fine with running about getting the Skillpoints, but, like others have said, I feel the number is too high.

Ohoni-I am curious about something. you said…

“In any case, it really isn’t all that onerous to run out and pick up every skillpoint in the world. Even if you mainly PvP or WvW it shouldn’t take more than a few hours, less if you do it in small groups. Getting all the heart quests is far more involved.”

How is it that you can suck up every skill point in the world in just a few hours? I can see it if your maps are all uncovered and all you have to do is waypoint everywhere…but what if the maps are yet to be explored?

What is your secret? I think a lot of us are going to want to know your method.

Lisa-Off to work.

I don’t know what he does, but on each new character I make I do a full 100% map completion. This takes ~40 hours of play time. I typically do 1 full map a day, and it takes me less than a month to finish. Kill everything you see when you are in range of a heart, always beeline to the WP’s and go in a consistent manner throughout the map. For wide maps I go top to bottom, then left to right. For tall maps I go left to right and top to bottom. This ensures no backtracking, and no spending 30 minutes looking for the one thing you missed. Also make sure to talk to every scout so that you don’t have any hidden hearts that you missed. I’ve done this with 3 characters so far and i’m working on a 4th right now.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Julischka Bean.7491:

I am fine with running about getting the Skillpoints, but, like others have said, I feel the number is too high.

Ohoni-I am curious about something. you said…

“In any case, it really isn’t all that onerous to run out and pick up every skillpoint in the world. Even if you mainly PvP or WvW it shouldn’t take more than a few hours, less if you do it in small groups. Getting all the heart quests is far more involved.”

How is it that you can suck up every skill point in the world in just a few hours? I can see it if your maps are all uncovered and all you have to do is waypoint everywhere…but what if the maps are yet to be explored?

What is your secret? I think a lot of us are going to want to know your method.

Lisa-Off to work.

I don’t know what he does, but on each new character I make I do a full 100% map completion. This takes ~40 hours of play time. I typically do 1 full map a day, and it takes me less than a month to finish. Kill everything you see when you are in range of a heart, always beeline to the WP’s and go in a consistent manner throughout the map. For wide maps I go top to bottom, then left to right. For tall maps I go left to right and top to bottom. This ensures no backtracking, and no spending 30 minutes looking for the one thing you missed. Also make sure to talk to every scout so that you don’t have any hidden hearts that you missed. I’ve done this with 3 characters so far and i’m working on a 4th right now.

a month is a long time for a traitline and 5-8 skills

XD wow you don’t need to do the map fully to get the traits, do yall live in rocks? just find and do the trait challenge and walk off to the other.

phys.7689:

Thaddeus.4891:

You don’t even need to do map completion. Just run around and do more hero challenge, which are easy. A little work won’t kill you.

85 HP for the trait like seem ok, but 85 for the skills? That’s insane. Based on what our current skills cost us, it should cost between 20-40 not 85.

spec unlock basically requires an almost full map run of skill points.

If it need around 100 hero challenge it’s close to 3-4 hours. If it’s more closer to 200 it’s more around 7-8 hours. For me around 100 hero challenge is just fine, 200 seem a bit too high.

Thaddeus.4891:

phys.7689:

Thaddeus.4891:

You don’t even need to do map completion. Just run around and do more hero challenge, which are easy. A little work won’t kill you.

85 HP for the trait like seem ok, but 85 for the skills? That’s insane. Based on what our current skills cost us, it should cost between 20-40 not 85.

spec unlock basically requires an almost full map run of skill points.

If it need around 100 hero challenge it’s close to 3-4 hours. If it’s more closer to 200 it’s more around 7-8 hours. For me around 100 hero challenge is just fine, 200 seem a bit too high.

yes, 200 is a bit ridiculous, good to see anet numbers guys still go for the most grindy feeling numbers.

XD well think of it this way, if you’re a necro trying to get the “reaper” traits, then the GS is more like an additional part of the body, using more effort to learn something not native to ones existence. think of it as a slight learning curve. ganna push harder to learn what you yourself aren’t used to. same idea goes with exercise, trying out a new exercise takes effort and your body needs to get used to it.

Rome wasn’t built in a day, it took many lives and years to finally finish the empire.

Reviera.5183:

XD well think of it this way, if you’re a necro trying to get the “reaper” traits, then the GS is more like an additional part of the body, using more effort to learn something not native to ones existence. think of it as a slight learning curve. ganna push harder to learn what you yourself aren’t used to. same idea goes with exercise, trying out a new exercise takes effort and your body needs to get used to it.

Rome wasn’t built in a day, it took many lives and years to finally finish the empire.

I agree, but the problem is for alts. I’ll have 9 character at the expansion. If it’s 200 hero pts that are need that’s almost 100 hours to get all the hero points for all my characters. And it’s now like Hero challenge were fun to do. Again, it depend on the number needed.

phys.7689:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Julischka Bean.7491:

I am fine with running about getting the Skillpoints, but, like others have said, I feel the number is too high.

Ohoni-I am curious about something. you said…

“In any case, it really isn’t all that onerous to run out and pick up every skillpoint in the world. Even if you mainly PvP or WvW it shouldn’t take more than a few hours, less if you do it in small groups. Getting all the heart quests is far more involved.”

How is it that you can suck up every skill point in the world in just a few hours? I can see it if your maps are all uncovered and all you have to do is waypoint everywhere…but what if the maps are yet to be explored?

What is your secret? I think a lot of us are going to want to know your method.

Lisa-Off to work.

I don’t know what he does, but on each new character I make I do a full 100% map completion. This takes ~40 hours of play time. I typically do 1 full map a day, and it takes me less than a month to finish. Kill everything you see when you are in range of a heart, always beeline to the WP’s and go in a consistent manner throughout the map. For wide maps I go top to bottom, then left to right. For tall maps I go left to right and top to bottom. This ensures no backtracking, and no spending 30 minutes looking for the one thing you missed. Also make sure to talk to every scout so that you don’t have any hidden hearts that you missed. I’ve done this with 3 characters so far and i’m working on a 4th right now.

a month is a long time for a traitline and 5-8 skills

That’s a month at like 30 minutes a day. I could do it in a week if I was grinding it. I could do it in a day if I was only doing HP challenges.

Plus that assumes getting all 214 HP’s, you only need 170 to get all the skills and traits. And it also assumes you don’t do any of the new HoT HP challenges.

It also assumes you unlocked all 5 other trait lines. If you are taking an elite spec then you only need 2 other trait lines, not 5. So just unlock the ones you want and skip the others until you get enough HP’s over time.

Specializations and skills should go in the leveling category anyways. Anyone remember that weird change to traits that required you to do different tasks to get the trait, or you could alternatively buy them off with skill points and gold? That was actually very bad direction to head towards. It really was just pseudo content which Anet added there so it would feel there was real content added but it really was just todos that were already in the game. It was just a dumb idea to give people something to grind on instead of putting in something actually new. Contentwise rich doesn’t necessarily mean time consuming. Gladly though that horrible “feature” was deleted. Hero challenges make more sense, but the requirement for how many the new ones cost should be in par with the old ones or otherwise it feels exactly the same.

XD or just get it over with and stop whining about it. some of us are perfectionists when it comes to character deving. we want to finish all our traits no matter what they may or may not be. XD it makes us feel better that we have a complete character apposed to an incomplete traits list, who knows that may even add in at some point a split tree, where you can switch between trait builds, then guess what, you’re ganna wanna finish it off, more tactics means better advantage.

I mean, it’s called an elite spec right? So getting it shouldn’t be simple.

In the core game, with five core specs, you are rewarded enough hero points from leveling to unlock all of the core specs. The other hero points allow you to have more customization while leveling up but are extraneous once you reach level 80.

Once HoT comes out, these extra hero points can be used to unlock elite specs. Personally, I did map completion back when WvW were required so I have hero points from mainland Tyria and WvW. I also spend time to 100% each of the new maps (Southsun with no hero points, Dry Top, and Silverwastes) and I have over 200 hero points. That’s more than enough to unlock the entire elite spec under the new system.

But that’s only one character, I haven’t done map completion on my other characters yet. Personally, I think getting hero points one by one to unlock elite specs is a good thing. Plus, I’m sure we’ll be able to unlock hero points in HoT itself!

Also, if you want an elite spec but don’t want to work for as many hero points, get to level 80 without unlocking all core specs and instead use hero points on your elite spec. You won’t have all core specs unlocked but you’ll have your elite!

in GW1 getting an elite skill required you to search out and kill a boss with a signet of capture equipped. To unlock all elite skills, it took ages to hunt down and kill every boss with a unique elite skill. If you want to unlock the entire elite specialization, it’s also going to require work to unlock since it’s not just a single skill you’re unlocking. It’s a trait line, a unique armor skin piece and weapon skin, and a number of unique skills. It’s not supposed to be simple.

Besides, plenty of people play game modes they don’t like to get content that they want. Back when Map Completion required WvW I entered into those zones even though I dislike WvW. And even though they’ve gotten rid of that requirement, participating in WvW is a requirement for gaining a legendary weapon through the Gift of Battle. If you want the elite specs, you’ll have to participate in the content that rewards you with the elite specs.

Besides, elite specs will probably be unlocked for HoT accounts in sPvP so if you’re primarily PvP then there’s no need to worry.

“I See No Tomarrow” I agree with you. having the elite stuffs is meant for the Elite, not for the little kids that want it easy all they way.

Just saying Elite is elite not basic or even intermediate. its elite, lvl 80 stuffs, if you cant look for your spec points(that’s kitten easy), then you don’t really need Elite specs. just place the core game and get bored of the same shazz.

Reviera.5183:

“I See No Tomarrow” I agree with you. having the elite stuffs is meant for the Elite, not for the little kids that want it easy all they way.

Just saying Elite is elite not basic or even intermediate. its elite, lvl 80 stuffs, if you cant look for your spec points(that’s kitten easy), then you don’t really need Elite specs. just place the core game and get bored of the same shazz.

Adding new rewards on old content isn’t really considered new. I’d rather play new content which rewards me the new elite specialization than grind the same old stuff we have been doing for 3 years.

Gynok.1756:

Reviera.5183:

“I See No Tomarrow” I agree with you. having the elite stuffs is meant for the Elite, not for the little kids that want it easy all they way.

Just saying Elite is elite not basic or even intermediate. its elite, lvl 80 stuffs, if you cant look for your spec points(that’s kitten easy), then you don’t really need Elite specs. just place the core game and get bored of the same shazz.

Adding new rewards on old content isn’t really considered new. I’d rather play new content which rewards me the new elite specialization than grind the same old stuff we have been doing for 3 years.

To some extent this would be interesting and it’s kinda what I expected when they announced elite specs: that we would unlock them somehow within HoT similar to how one unlocks the ability to switch between secondary professions in GW1. But that’s not what’s going to happen and wanting it now is likely fruitless. If they add it in the future, that’s great, but this is the system we’re getting when they ship HoT.

And it’s not that bad. Revenants who aren’t lucky enough to read 80 tomes of knowledge will have to participate in the mainland Tyria content before exploring HoT. Getting hero points from central Tyria doesn’t take too long as it doesn’t require actual map completion to just grab the points.

Plus as I said earlier, there will probably be ways to get hero points in HoT itself once it comes out.

well its like a new city build over a dead city. that’s all it really is, same shazz, new look, just built over the old stuff. so in some ways you can look at it as if it was a 3D puzzle, piece a new piece in a place it belongs and you can say its nearing completion.

same idea what Anets doing, just adding another piece of the puzzle to the image.

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Gynok.1756:

Reviera.5183:

“I See No Tomarrow” I agree with you. having the elite stuffs is meant for the Elite, not for the little kids that want it easy all they way.

Just saying Elite is elite not basic or even intermediate. its elite, lvl 80 stuffs, if you cant look for your spec points(that’s kitten easy), then you don’t really need Elite specs. just place the core game and get bored of the same shazz.

Adding new rewards on old content isn’t really considered new. I’d rather play new content which rewards me the new elite specialization than grind the same old stuff we have been doing for 3 years.

To some extent this would be interesting and it’s kinda what I expected when they announced elite specs: that we would unlock them somehow within HoT similar to how one unlocks the ability to switch between secondary professions in GW1. But that’s not what’s going to happen and wanting it now is likely fruitless. If they add it in the future, that’s great, but this is the system we’re getting when they ship HoT.

And it’s not that bad. Revenants who aren’t lucky enough to read 80 tomes of knowledge will have to participate in the mainland Tyria content before exploring HoT. Getting hero points from central Tyria doesn’t take too long as it doesn’t require actual map completion to just grab the points.

Plus as I said earlier, there will probably be ways to get hero points in HoT itself once it comes out.

I can see your point here but I’d really like to see real content in HoT rather than pseudo crap we’ve already seen. As in comparison they could scale fractals to level 1000 and add new rewards and tell me it’s new. It wouldn’t really feel like it though.

The new skills and traits shouldn’t be earned with the old hero points. Something like a unique quest chain for each profession with LORE would be so much better.
To play WvW seriously you have to be level 80 and play PvE content (at least the first time) and I think a not too long quest chain wouldn’t hurt most WvW players.

I personally hate PvE. don’t know why, probs because I played in WvW most of my game time. but I do at times have to leave WvW to get something from PvE. one must learn to adapt if one is to even evolve personally and in games.

Thaddeus.4891:

You don’t even need to do map completion. Just run around and do more hero challenge, which are easy. A little work won’t kill you..

Multiply that “little work” by 9×. Or do you only play one single character? I mean it’s possible, but i get the feeling most people have several characters.

I play on all my toon slots, all asura, and do my best to make the toon itself more and more effective. I have to practice and relearn a lot because Ive lvled a lot of characters in the last 3.2 years. XD its not easy maintaining and keeping up with builds and what I feel good with. times change and so does the build be it a little or a lot. XD 4 lvl 80’s all exotic gear all made to where they all are good in pve and sPVP. arena sucks, no offence to those that play tag in a controlled setting. when facing down 2-5 players at once, depending on the characters performance, I look at and re-evaluate a strategy and see if the build has flaws that can be smoothed out.

so no I don’t monkey around on only one toon. = )

Terrahero.9358:

Thaddeus.4891:

You don’t even need to do map completion. Just run around and do more hero challenge, which are easy. A little work won’t kill you..

Multiply that “little work” by 9×. Or do you only play one single character? I mean it’s possible, but i get the feeling most people have several characters.

Look at my next post right after that one.

Heaven forbid we have to complete in-game content to unlock Elite Content… yeesh…

Shiki.7148:

I heard another rumour that said getting level 80 and every hero-challenge in existance should be enough (if you didn’t craft legendaries and had to spend points for one of the gifts, i guess).

it baffles me that on one in here has pointed out to you, that hero points and spirit shards are NOT the same thing !

Hero points: used for unlocking skills, traits and specializations.
Spirit shards: used for buying legendary gifts and general mystic forge materials.

MattyP.6954:

Heaven forbid we have to complete in-game content to unlock Elite Content… yeesh…

Yeah in-game content that we enjoy if we not into World Explorer. ..

glad we on the same page

Knighthonor.4061:

MattyP.6954:

Heaven forbid we have to complete in-game content to unlock Elite Content… yeesh…

Yeah in-game content that we enjoy if we not into World Explorer. ..

glad we on the same page

Meaningless statement. “content we enjoy” is something different for everyone. You will have to play the game to unlock the in-game elite specs. If you don’t enjoy the things the game offers then you won’t unlock them.

You will never get a dragon finisher if you don’t like PvP, you will never kill Mordy if you don’t like story content, you will never get legendary armor if you don’t like raids, you will never get rank 1000 WvW if you don’t like WvW, and you will never unlock elite specs if you don’t like earning Hero Points.

Such is life. Life shouldn’t change just to suit your every want and desire, nor should it.