Guild Wars 2

Apolus.3157:

And you will have to pay for Season 3 and 4 if you wait too much.

No you wont have to pay. They said for unlocking story you only have to log in. So after you buy the expansion for 20$ you will be able to play whole season 3 and 4 without waiting every 1 month for another episode, like you are watching some movie…

warbignime.4610:

The people complaining on forum, I can guarantee you most of them will but HoT they second they hear people talking about it after release. This is what happens every times.

They wont buy HOT because they dont have money. If you cant afford something you wont buy it. Its simple. People who have money dont give a kitten about the price.

IchbinVol.5407:

Kumion.7580:

If they had simply given veterans the “free” core game with the expansion, veterans would’ve handed out the core games to their friends like candy. “Try this game! It’s really fun and I just got an extra copy you can have!”

Instead, they are NOT giving the “free” core game to veterans the same way they’re giving it to new players. Big mistake, in so many ways.

I think the reason behind that, is that they don’t want vets selling their keys, and making money.

That is likely part of Anet’s reasoning but if the core game really is “free”, it shouldn’t matter.

warbignime.4610:

The people complaining on forum, I can guarantee you most of them will but HoT they second they hear people talking about it after release. This is what happens every times.

It will be amusing if the after launch version of basic is less than $50 and has a character slot also.

Kumion.7580:

IchbinVol.5407:

Kumion.7580:

If they had simply given veterans the “free” core game with the expansion, veterans would’ve handed out the core games to their friends like candy. “Try this game! It’s really fun and I just got an extra copy you can have!”

Instead, they are NOT giving the “free” core game to veterans the same way they’re giving it to new players. Big mistake, in so many ways.

I think the reason behind that, is that they don’t want vets selling their keys, and making money.

That is likely part of Anet’s reasoning but if the core game really is “free”, it shouldn’t matter.

Haha, also a fair point!

CORE for Everybody!!!
[Insert Oprah meme here]

warbignime.4610:

The people complaining on forum, I can guarantee you most of them will but HoT they second they hear people talking about it after release. This is what happens every times.

Of course, because most people are simply wanting to know that the expansion is worth that $50.

It’s not so much the price, as the information about the product.

When will people who are defending Anet and the pricing realize this?

So since what they want is information… when HoT comes out they’ll have that information from other players and reviews. So yes, most people will end up buying it.

Those who aren’t buying because they can’t afford/don’t want to pay $50 for any kind of expansion will end up not buying it until it becomes cheaper – likely a couple months after HoT’s release, unless sales are terrible or we hit some seasonal sale (anniversary, holidays, etc.).

Seera.5916:

And you’re assuming that ANet doesn’t value the price of HoT at $50.

It doesn’t matter what Anet values the price of HoT at. It’s what the the consumer base values HoT at that matters. If they don’t feel it’s worth the price they aren’t buying it and Anet isn’t making any money.

This has been stated before, but I feel like maybe some people are saying it a bit too harshly; I have no issue with the price in and of itself. I paid $70 for the deluxe WoD version at release when I was still playing WoW, and I believed that the $50 price tag was fine for the base expansion. A few of friends of mine bought it too, and a couple of those bought the base game so they could start playing the game! The base game now included all of the expansions up through MoP, the release from just before WoD. I thought it was cool that all of the old content was now bundled with the base game to help new players get into it, even though I paid for each of those expansions individually when they came out. So I have no issue with bundling content with the base game either.

My issue is specifically that, for new players, they get the base game and the NEWEST content expansion, for the price of just the expansion, while we get only the expansion content for having, seemingly unwisely, purchased the game before this expansion was available, and, in mine and other player’s cases, before the base game was even actually available. I do understand that you (ANet) have to make money, and that game design doesn’t work on dreams and unicorn eyelashes or what-have-you, and I appreciate the work you’ve done, but I do think not offering some sort of compensation for those who already have the base game is a terrible misstep that could be easily avoided, even with just the addition of a character slot. (Or two, perhaps?)

In my previous rambling involving my experience with WoW and buying WoD, I mentioned that all of the previous expansion content had been rolled into the base game’s purchase price. In the future, I actually feel like this would be one dang fine way to handle any further purchasable expansions, since it still makes the base entry point for beginners low, while not alienating your veteran players to nearly the extent that they feel alienated by this decision.

-Edited for paragraph clarity-

Konig Des Todes.2086:

warbignime.4610:

The people complaining on forum, I can guarantee you most of them will but HoT they second they hear people talking about it after release. This is what happens every times.

Of course, because most people are simply wanting to know that the expansion is worth that $50.

It’s not so much the price, as the information about the product.

When will people who are defending Anet and the pricing realize this?

So since what they want is information… when HoT comes out they’ll have that information from other players and reviews. So yes, most people will end up buying it.

Those who aren’t buying because they can’t afford/don’t want to pay $50 for any kind of expansion will end up not buying it until it becomes cheaper – likely a couple months after HoT’s release, unless sales are terrible or we hit some seasonal sale (anniversary, holidays, etc.).

I can not believe someone saying they are not going to get 50$ of entertainment out of a MMORPG, really? If that’s the case then MMORPG is just not the game type for you. Also 50$ is half day of work at minimal wager, the only ones that can not afford it are students.

Apolus.3157:

And you will have to pay for Season 3 and 4 if you wait too much.

That is if you care about playing season 3 and 4, some of us having even bothered to play season 1 and 2. You can always farm a little gold a buy them in game for zero real life money.

Core of the problem is……. Communication. Many posters and Anet share this issue.

Only a small group of posters actually bother to express their legitimate concerns in a manner that helps their own case. Meanwhile Anet says nothing.

A number of abusers, trolls and anti trolls do their best to derail and malign, it does not help.

As a gamer, I would like to see an additional char slot added to the 50 dollar pack. I would not mind if the price was lowered.

As a parent, I would be unable to do either while many posters simply stand screaming and stamping their feet.

Please people , post in a manner that actually helps your cause.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I can understand that some players are big fans of the game, and have full confidence in Anet as a company. What I do not get, is that some players proudly announce how they’ve forked over $50 or more for a product that isn’t finished, has an unknown release date, and unknown contents (although what we know of the contents does not justify its price tag).

What you are basically saying is “Money has very little value to me”. And while I understand that some players know they will get the expansion eventually anyway, I don’t think that supporting this business practice is a good thing. You are basically part of the problem by supporting this pre-purchase nonsense, which is bad for us as consumers.

+1000

warbignime.4610:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

warbignime.4610:

The people complaining on forum, I can guarantee you most of them will but HoT they second they hear people talking about it after release. This is what happens every times.

Of course, because most people are simply wanting to know that the expansion is worth that $50.

It’s not so much the price, as the information about the product.

When will people who are defending Anet and the pricing realize this?

So since what they want is information… when HoT comes out they’ll have that information from other players and reviews. So yes, most people will end up buying it.

Those who aren’t buying because they can’t afford/don’t want to pay $50 for any kind of expansion will end up not buying it until it becomes cheaper – likely a couple months after HoT’s release, unless sales are terrible or we hit some seasonal sale (anniversary, holidays, etc.).

I can not believe someone saying they are not going to get 50$ of entertainment out of a MMORPG, really? If that’s the case then MMORPG is just not the game type for you. Also 50$ is half day of work at minimal wager, the only ones that can not afford it are students.

You talk about HoT as if it is a stand-alone game. It is not. It is a fraction of what GW2 is, much closer in amount of content to the Living Story. Based on the content announced, I doubt I would get $50 worth of entertainment out of HoT specifically.

warbignime.4610:

I can not believe someone saying they are not going to get 50$ of entertainment out of a MMORPG, really?

Still missing the point.

What’s wrong with waiting to see how much content there actually is before buying the expac? Some people like to blindly believe what they’re told, some like to wait until they have real concrete information.

i cant believe what i am reading?Are you people sane to give them 50 bucks for maybe 1 map,1 new proff.,guild halls,1 wvw map and some features that should be gotten for free via updates?Are you oke for to pay 10 more bucks for one lousy character slot?Do you think that it is oke for people who bought game on sale like just one month ago ,to buy expansion for 50 bucks and get for free that same vanilla GW2 that they bought on sale?This is so bad bussiness practice and it was like hit in the groins for majority of vets and rescently new players.You bought 2 ultimate for 200 bucks.Good for you ,that you have money to throw into uncertain product with false advertising.They screwed this up big times and all of you blind followers cant deny that and you know it

Zanshin.5379:

warbignime.4610:

I can not believe someone saying they are not going to get 50$ of entertainment out of a MMORPG, really?

Still missing the point.

What’s wrong with waiting to see how much content there actually is before buying the expac? Some people like to blindly believe what they’re told, some like to wait until they have real concrete information.

I’m fine with people waiting to make decision, but I just can not stand people who just straight says HoT does not worth 50$. Maybe MMORPG is not your thing and you can not get 50$ worth out of a mmo expansion. But you can not tell me or any other people that they will not get 50$ worth of entertainment out of HoT.

warbignime.4610:

I can not believe someone saying they are not going to get 50$ of entertainment out of a MMORPG, really? If that’s the case then MMORPG is just not the game type for you. Also 50$ is half day of work at minimal wager, the only ones that can not afford it are students.

The thing is we can get another $50 worth of entertainment out of the base game and not spend a single dime. To spend $50 on new content there should at least be $50 worth of new content and from what we have been shown so far there isn’t.

warbignime.4610:

Zanshin.5379:

warbignime.4610:

I can not believe someone saying they are not going to get 50$ of entertainment out of a MMORPG, really?

Still missing the point.

What’s wrong with waiting to see how much content there actually is before buying the expac? Some people like to blindly believe what they’re told, some like to wait until they have real concrete information.

I’m fine with people waiting to make decision, but I just can not stand people who just straight says HoT does not worth 50$. Maybe MMORPG is not your thing and you can not get 50$ worth out of a mmo expansion. But you can not tell me or any other people that they will not get 50$ worth of entertainment out of HoT.

I don’t think anyone is saying what values others will get. You’re posts here have been directly attacking those who are stating that they don’t think that they will get $50 worth of gameplay out of the game. Do you really believe that your opinion is more valuable than theirs?

Not paying 50 bucks for the expansion, and I won’t purchase anything else from ANET with that as the price model. Make it a reasonable price and I’ll reconsider, but 50 is too much.

Expansions for one were like 25-35 bucks and ALL included a new character slot. This is just insulting.

warbignime.4610:

OMG, people are still going on about this? Have you ever played wow,ff14 or any non f2p with expansion? They all do more or less the same thing, and those are p2p games. You also should not buy any new release video game in the future too cause eventually they go on sale and you spent way more than new players. Gosh.

I played DDO and it didn’t make you pay for your current game again when expansions came out. I don’t think Lotro did either. I don’t know of its younger players who just accept bad treatment but I’m from an age group that would stand up for their rights. You young ones do know you have the right to do that or are you caught up in the baby talk such as calling legitimate complainers whiners.

gryph.8734:

I can say absolutely and without hesitation that price isn’t the issue for me. Unless and until this issue is handled to my satisfaction, I won’t be purchasing HoT. It’s just that simple.

For me, it’s a combination of price vs. value, plus the abysmal way ANet has handled this.

If — if — there was enough value here to be worth $50, I’d spend it. I plunked down $60 on the base game, so it’s not that I’m adverse to spending the money if the value is there.

But look at what we’re getting compared to the base game. A small — compared to the vastness of Tyria — new area. One new class added to the eight already there. And a few miscellaneous tweaks that could have just as easily been rolled out in a regular update.

Simply put, what we’re getting doesn’t qualify for a price that’s 83% of the base game, because we’re not getting 83% of the stuff we got in the base game. We’re getting maybe — if we’re being charitable — 20-25% of what we got in the base game.

Now, as for the communication. They screwed up by the numbers, there’s little doubt about that. Essentially, they appear — and I said appear, not that they actually are — concentrating on the new players and ignoring the vets. This isn’t the first time they’ve done this, when they redid the early levels, they did it because new players were saying “the game is too hard to learn!” Nevermind all of us — including yours truly — that learned it just fine the old way.

So, the impression we’re left with is, “welcome, new players; screw you, veterans… again.”

Now, given both of those issues, is it any wonder that I’m seriously contemplating completely uninstalling GW2? ANet sure doesn’t seem to value my business any more.

Castaliea.3156:

I blew 200$

Agreed.

warbignime.4610:

This is already diving down, there are way less people complaining than a few days ago. Also here is a fact , majority of players are happy with pre purchase. I’m not talking about people on forum, I’m talking about people in game. Just go in game and ask at lion arch or any other major hubs. The majority of response I got are positive. People who are unhappy with the situation are more likely to go on forum and complain.

Anekdotal evidence isn’t. I could say the opposite. You do not have any numbers to show a majority, unless you have access to EAnet data.

Also, a lot depends on how you would phrase something like this.

Asking;‘Are you happy with your prepurchase’ would have a majority of people responding that actually purchased it, not those that are unhappy and holding out.

Please don’t engage in logical fallacies to make a point.

I still think 50 dollars is fine given the assumption that it would include 1-2 years of free content in the future.

But I will say that as of now, I am not going to buy HoT. Not because of the price, but because nothing that we have seen so far has made me particularly excited. Nothing has made me say “I cant wait til this comes out!” …

Right now I’m more excited about Elder Scrolls 6,,, and I don’t even know if that’s in development yet. But given what we have been told so far about HoT, I am very much underwhelmed.

I dont have a guild, I dont like PvP in this game, Gliding is disappointing to me, the new map seems like it’s going to be more annoying than Oor, and maybe this last point is just me, but these group events all look like just 200 people mashing buttons and hoping to win. To my eyes, it looks like just a bunch of floating nameplates in a field of colorful explosions.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I can understand that some players are big fans of the game, and have full confidence in Anet as a company. What I do not get, is that some players proudly announce how they’ve forked over $50 or more for a product that isn’t finished, has an unknown release date, and unknown contents (although what we know of the contents does not justify its price tag).

What you are basically saying is “Money has very little value to me”. And while I understand that some players know they will get the expansion eventually anyway, I don’t think that supporting this business practice is a good thing. You are basically part of the problem by supporting this pre-purchase nonsense, which is bad for us as consumers.

I’m quoting this because I think everyone should read it and just think at least 5 minutes about it. You are a wise person, hopefully at least one person who reads this can learn from it.

Also:

Nemizar.6152:
i cant believe what i am reading?Are you people sane to give them 50 bucks for maybe 1 map,1 new proff.,guild halls,1 wvw map and some features that should be gotten for free via updates?Are you oke for to pay 10 more bucks for one lousy character slot?Do you think that it is oke for people who bought game on sale like just one month ago ,to buy expansion for 50 bucks and get for free that same vanilla GW2 that they bought on sale?This is so bad bussiness practice and it was like hit in the groins for majority of vets and rescently new players.You bought 2 ultimate for 200 bucks.Good for you ,that you have money to throw into uncertain product with false advertising.They screwed this up big times and all of you blind followers cant deny that and you know it

The People who defend the HoT Marketing strategy literally “believe” in every word ArenaNet says. After 5 days of posts where others try to communicate why we feel disappointed and to some degree deceived by Anet, they still try to tell us “what we have to think” or that we should “just go and keep quiet” if we don’t agree with what’s happening right now. It >almost< feels like some religious group which doesn’t know anything about their god tries to silence the ones who question it. Remember the time ArenaNet tried to restrict the gem exchange methods? Who do these blindly followers think prevented ArenaNet from keeping the 400, 800 gem step change in the game? Many people were not happy with it, standing up here in the forum and for example on Kotaku and ArenaNet acknowledged that + again made it possible to convert individual amounts of gold/gems. If everyone would have just bowed back than, this change wouldn’t have been possible.

It’s five days now…. people start to look for other MMOs, many don’t feel like logging in anymore (me included). Please ArenaNet, give us finally a statement. Does this really not bother you at all? I had about 30 good friends during my Guild Wars 2 time, after almost three years, only 2 and me stuck to this game. When things go on like this, it’s only a matter of time until we create yet another “ghost guild”.

warbignime.4610:

This is already diving down, there are way less people complaining than a few days ago. Also here is a fact , majority of players are happy with pre purchase. I’m not talking about people on forum, I’m talking about people in game. Just go in game and ask at lion arch or any other major hubs. The majority of response I got are positive. People who are unhappy with the situation are more likely to go on forum and complain.

There’s another, equally plausible, explanation.

The people who are mad, like me, are simply not playing until this is resolved to our satisfaction.

Thus, you don’t see the angry people in map chat. See how simple that is?

In short, you cannot use only those people still playing at any given moment as a sample for your own little straw poll, at least not if you want the poll to have any validity.

SenorMoody.5908:

I still think 50 dollars is fine given the assumption that it would include 1-2 years of free content in the future.

But I will say that as of now, I am not going to buy HoT. Not because of the price, but because nothing that we have seen so far has made me particularly excited. Nothing has made me say “I cant wait til this comes out!” …

Right now I’m more excited about Elder Scrolls 6,,, and I don’t even know if that’s in development yet. But given what we have been told so far about HoT, I am very much underwhelmed.

I agree with the sentiment, but I’m excited about a different game’s expansion.

Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR) just announced that they’re going to offer another expansion to their game. It looks highly interesting, and even though we don’t have many details yet, we have one crucial one: a release date.

Ironically, it was while playing SWTOR that I first heard about GW2.

matrix seishin.5312:

Sorry but are you crazy?! Living under a rock or something?! Lack of content?! I’m actually sorry I stopped playing for awhile because I missed half of seasons 1 and 2.

It’s funny you would say that.

Did you miss season 1? Then it’s gone. You didn’t play it and you can’t actually play it.

Season 2? If you missed, it, then you won’t play unless you pay more for it.

So, where is that “free content” you were talking about? Looks like it’s also under a rock, because it isn’t anywhere in GW2 right now.

Test.8734:

matrix seishin.5312:

Sorry but are you crazy?! Living under a rock or something?! Lack of content?! I’m actually sorry I stopped playing for awhile because I missed half of seasons 1 and 2.

It’s funny you would say that.

Did you miss season 1? Then it’s gone. You didn’t play it and you can’t actually play it.

Season 2? If you missed, it, then you won’t play unless you pay more for it.

So, where is that “free content” you were talking about? Looks like it’s also under a rock, because it isn’t anywhere in GW2 right now.

+1
This mythical “FREE CONTENT” these people keep trotting out and parading in front of the judges is just that, a myth. Locked behind a time gate and paywall, funded by regulars making purchases in the gemstore. Most have been tricked by word games and don’t even know it. Hook, line, & sinker. That’s what some here on the forums the last couple of days have been trying to point out to them.

Julie Yann.5379:

Seera.5916:

And you’re assuming that ANet doesn’t value the price of HoT at $50.

It doesn’t matter what Anet values the price of HoT at. It’s what the the consumer base values HoT at that matters. If they don’t feel it’s worth the price they aren’t buying it and Anet isn’t making any money.

Doesn’t mean they can’t value it at $50, even if a majority of players don’t value it at $50.

If the majority don’t think it’s worth $50, then ANet will have a choice: hope the minority purchasing HoT and gems, and the majority just buying gems will be enough to keep the company making a profit and leaving the pricing as is; lowering the price; and/or adding value to game either by adding goodies and/or releasing more information.

It’s just like name brand $100+ purses. I don’t value a purse at anywhere near $100, yet there are several purses out there that are $100 or more. The company obviously values them at a very high price. I don’t. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

The standard version should include at least 1 additional char slot or gems for people that already own the core game.

I just want to put my voice in here, and I know I’m late to the party, but as someone who has been playing Guild Wars for 8 years (both 1 and 2) I am sorely disappointed in ANET for slapping its vet players in the face. We are the ones who have kept the game going and profitable for them.

I completely understand they want to encourage new people to come check out the game, and I understand their reasoning for including the base game in the expansion. HOWEVER, they should have either had a combo price for that or have a different benefit for those who already have an account. It seems ridiculous that new players get 5 free character slots while vet players get….crickets?

I have normally been very supportive of ANET in the past. Guild Wars 1 and all its expansions were not a disappointment by any stretch of the imagination, it was fantastic. Guild Wars 2 base game was all it promised to be and more. There have been some experiments that didn’t go well, but they have normally done a great job of taking care of their core players who keep playing this game everyday.

I am hoping ANET will give us a response, even if it is something to the effect “We have heard you and are looking into a better solution” would be better than the echos of our frustration going around. I know they don’t want to speak out of turn or make things worse, but ANET please, you’ve had sufficient time to look at this and realize that your good intentions have backfired. I know you guys are good at coming up with solutions that work for everyone, just let us know what you’re doing to improve the situation. Thanks!

Aragorn.5462:

I just want to put my voice in here, and I know I’m late to the party, but as someone who has been playing Guild Wars for 8 years (both 1 and 2) I am sorely disappointed in ANET for slapping its vet players in the face. We are the ones who have kept the game going and profitable for them.

I completely understand they want to encourage new people to come check out the game, and I understand their reasoning for including the base game in the expansion. HOWEVER, they should have either had a combo price for that or have a different benefit for those who already have an account. It seems ridiculous that new players get 5 free character slots while vet players get….crickets?

I have normally been very supportive of ANET in the past. Guild Wars 1 and all its expansions were not a disappointment by any stretch of the imagination, it was fantastic. Guild Wars 2 base game was all it promised to be and more. There have been some experiments that didn’t go well, but they have normally done a great job of taking care of their core players who keep playing this game everyday.

I am hoping ANET will give us a response, even if it is something to the effect “We have heard you and are looking into a better solution” would be better than the echos of our frustration going around. I know they don’t want to speak out of turn or make things worse, but ANET please, you’ve had sufficient time to look at this and realize that your good intentions have backfired. I know you guys are good at coming up with solutions that work for everyone, just let us know what you’re doing to improve the situation. Thanks!

The devs have posted at least once saying that they are listening to feedback and passing it along to the appropriate people.

Why not make a $25.00 version so that ppl who own GW2 do not have the buy it again just to get the expansion?
Just asking.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

“There is no such thing as a free lunch”

If the core game is really free, then you should be giving it away without requiring people to buy the expansion. But I’m guessing you won’t do that because the core game actually has value. Or is GW2 worthless now?

Jinath.1298:

Why not make a $25.00 version so that ppl who own GW2 do not have the buy it again just to get the expansion?
Just asking.

That’s what they should have done in the first place.

That’s what they should do now.

But I must admit I have my doubts they will.

No word from Anet yet?

Marthkus.4615:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

“There is no such thing as a free lunch”

And that’s been the crux of much of this debate. Some know marketing jargon when we see it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of kids/young adults out there that either haven’t learned this lesson or didn’t put their thinkin’ caps on.

Those infomercials late at night that offer you those “free” gifts? It’s included in your bill. Either in shipping & handling, promotional kickbacks, or the products are close to dirt cheap to manufacture.

they still waiting for sale report

xbutcherx.3861:

No word from Anet yet?

JUN YANG.4328:

they still waiting for sale report

xbutcherx.3861:

No word from Anet yet?

If I were them I’d also look at the number of long-time players that haven’t spent more than an hour in-game since this announcement, as well as the number of those same long-time players that haven’t bought gems since the announcement.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

warbignime.4610:

This is already diving down, there are way less people complaining than a few days ago. Also here is a fact , majority of players are happy with pre purchase. I’m not talking about people on forum, I’m talking about people in game. Just go in game and ask at lion arch or any other major hubs. The majority of response I got are positive. People who are unhappy with the situation are more likely to go on forum and complain.

Anekdotal evidence isn’t. I could say the opposite. You do not have any numbers to show a majority, unless you have access to EAnet data.

Also, a lot depends on how you would phrase something like this.

Asking;‘Are you happy with your prepurchase’ would have a majority of people responding that actually purchased it, not those that are unhappy and holding out.

Please don’t engage in logical fallacies to make a point.

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

Odyssey.2613:

Those infomercials late at night that offer you those “free” gifts? It’s included in your bill. Either in shipping & handling, promotional kickbacks, or the products are close to dirt cheap to manufacture.

But if I call in the next 10 minutes, Ron Popeil will send me TWO Chop-O-Matics for the price of ONE!

Everyone gets that “deal”, and everyone is paying for two of them. Like they’re actually tracking that closely enough to know if you’ve been able to see a that commercial within the last 10 minutes. And with all the channels showing them, across multiple times zones, it’s been on somewhere in the last 10 minutes, anyway.

I’m sure people want to think that developers are all just great people, fellow gamers, and want to treat us all like we’re their best friends. And I’d say that is true about quite a few of them. I’d say that’s likely true about a lot Anet’s devs. But even if they want to be your buddy, and let us all have great deals, they are still answering to a bunch of execs and investors that are primarily concerned with how much money they can convince you to give them. So we shouldn’t be so quick to trust everything they claim, and take every statement at face value.

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

What? no you didn’t.

The only thing you proved is that you’re an unhappy person who found his way to the forums to complain.

Also you’re still one person no matter how often you post on the forums.

You’re still in the minority.

edit: I’m not saying your complaints are invalid. Just saying that the complainers who post on the forum do not represent the majority. They represent the vocal minority.

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

I can second this, this is the first time I have really gotten into a game’s forums.

If you prepurchase now, do you get the gems/character slot and/or any of the other items right away?

I’m looking at reserving a character name.

Straylight.7529:

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

What? no you didn’t.

The only thing you proved is that you’re an unhappy person who found his way to the forums to complain.

Also you’re still one person no matter how often you post on the forums.

You’re still in the minority.

edit: I’m not saying your complaints are invalid. Just saying that the complainers who post on the forum do not represent the majority. They represent the vocal minority.

We really don’t have any way of knowing which side of this issue is the minority. Of course, the those of us taking the time to post on the forums are a minority of the overall game community. But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

Of the friends I play with regularly, only one has bought HoT. The rest are unhappy about the current situation. But only one other has actually posted on the forums about it, and that was just a few comments.

As a vet player i’m feeling like i would fund the core game for all potentially new players to come. Especially at this price.

And i don’t even know what exactly i would buy here. After almost 3 years of shady PR work and strange decisions overall (NPE; Traits; Commander Tags; Balancing; LS; City Clothes Issue; Gold/Gems Issue; Increasing the RNG; Taking colors out of regular loot almost completely; Unresolved Bugs & Exploits; Selling of Halloween lottery tickets for 1st year skins via gem shop etc.), i’ve became very wary of NC-Soft/A-Net.

So.. no, thank you A-Net. I’m still not hyped yet. Tell me, what you want to sell as a whole (product), bring me some hard features first and i’ll tell you if i want to have it.. with my wallet that is.

I’m also supporting the 800 Gems compensation idea.

Only time will tell..

But i’m on the brink of leaving this game for almost 2 years now. If this keeps unresolved i may leave for good. My guild is just a shadow of it’s former self anyways.

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Ummmm….what? This is the strangest logic I’ve heard yet. I did a very informal poll in all the main cities today, and found only 14% (7 of 52) have or will purchase if nothing changes. The others – and the five people in my household – are waiting for resolution. Again, not scientific, but to say those who are unhappy are the minority is not a slam-dunk conclusion.