Guild Wars 2

For what I understood, each core classes will be paired with an “elite spec class”. And if Anet is happy with this system, each core classes will be paired with a new elite for each further expac.
But what do will gain the players that set themselves on the core classe ?

Dragon Hunter gains traps in addition to core guardian abilities. But what is new for Guardian at the release of Hot ? Nothing. If this logic reminds the same for each xpac, core classes will never drastically change. They will never get new abilities. Same builds forever.

Don’t you think each core should recieve new abilities wich would be only avaible to them and not the elite specs ?

i.e shouts and greatsword for the reaper, but venom skills or something for the necromancer / traps and bow for the DH, but banners of something for the guardian etc, and those new core skills would be automatically replaced by the elite skills.

They are not “Elite Specialization classes” but simply “Elite Specializations”.

What the Guardian is getting on the release of Heart of Thorns is the Elite Specialization “Dragon Hunter” – not a new class/profession, but a new play style option for the already existing profession. It is not a completely different profession.

(Not sure on this one:) Players might still be able to use the skills of the Elite Specializations without having to specialize into it, so the core specializations are receiving new abilities on the whole and are still “drastically changing” with the addition of these skills and each Elite Specialization.

Edit: Not entirely sure on accuracy of final paragraph.

The core classes get…access to their Elite specializations.

ArenaNet doesn’t like adding random skills to existing classes without form or structure. They tried* that in the base game and found that it didn’t really jive with them. The problems they had with trying to introduce new skills/traits/weapons/whatevers in the base game is the reason elite specs came about in the first place.

Now, the existence of elite specs doesn’t necessarily mean that the base classes are done being balanced, or that skill adjustments/replacements will never happen, but I wouldn’t expect any major additions to the base classes outside of a new elite spec. If that was in the cards, they wouldn’t really be sinking as much time as they are into the elite specs system in the first place.

Ostensibly we’ll be receiving follow-up elite specializations much more frequently than once every three years, as ArenaNet claims that they don’t need to release an expansion to release a new elite spec…but, well, pretty much everyone here is of the opinion, “Yeah, sure guys. We’ll believe it when we see it.”

*if you consider one set of new heal skills and the clearly event-specific gimmick skill Antitoxin Spray to be trying, anyways. I’m ambivalent on that front.

Zalladi.4652:

…Players will still be able to use the skills of the Elite Specializations without having to specialize into it…

This is actually incorrect. In order to use traps, you need to be a Dragonhunter. You can’t use traps without the Dragonhunter elite spec slotted, and same with the other Elite specs’ new skills. No Shouts without Reaper/Tempest, no Rage without Berserker, no Physicals without Daredevil, etc. Sorry.

Core specializations receive nothing, nor should they.

The five core specializations are the basis on which the professions are founded. Elite specializations then build upon that foundation, allowing heroes to, in effect, customize their chosen profession. Continually adding new skills, traits, and weapons to the the core specializations would defeat the purpose of the elite specializations.

This does not mean you must pick an elite specialization, nor that core specializations don’t need nor shouldn’t be fixed where appropriate. It’s simply my opinion that these are the skills, traits, and weapons you will always have access to, regardless of your elite specialization.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

This is actually incorrect. In order to use traps, you need to be a Dragonhunter. You can’t use traps without the Dragonhunter elite spec slotted, and same with the other Elite specs’ new skills. No Shouts without Reaper/Tempest, no Rage without Berserker, no Physicals without Daredevil, etc. Sorry.

Huh, there was something in my brain that reminded me of using Tempest shouts without the Elite Specialization being equipped. Then again, I did not play the beta for long, so you are probably correct.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Zalladi.4652:

…Players will still be able to use the skills of the Elite Specializations without having to specialize into it…

This is actually incorrect. In order to use traps, you need to be a Dragonhunter. You can’t use traps without the Dragonhunter elite spec slotted, and same with the other Elite specs’ new skills. No Shouts without Reaper/Tempest, no Rage without Berserker, no Physicals without Daredevil, etc. Sorry.

This is I wanted to underline. Guardian is only getting the choice to remind like in vanilla or to be morphed in a “new class that shares a loot of abilities with the guardian but also has something new”, but the core classe has nothing new.

It is like, if at WoW (or an other game like that), the warrior is getting a new spec for each xpac, but each specs are never getting something new. As a protection warrior, what do you want is something new for you as a protection warrior, having a new alternative spec is cool at best, but generally meh.

Continually adding new skills, traits, and weapons to the the core specializations would defeat the purpose of the elite specializations.

Yes new weapons and traits should be only avaible to elite spec. Their purpose is to change the gameplay of a core class. But I don’t understand why the core class shouldnt recieve aswell new skills (not necessary new family of skills) that would fit with the core spec.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

The core classes get…access to their Elite specializations.

ArenaNet doesn’t like adding random skills to existing classes without form or structure. They tried* that in the base game and found that it didn’t really jive with them. The problems they had with trying to introduce new skills/traits/weapons/whatevers in the base game is the reason elite specs came about in the first place.

Now, the existence of elite specs doesn’t necessarily mean that the base classes are done being balanced, or that skill adjustments/replacements will never happen, but I wouldn’t expect any major additions to the base classes outside of a new elite spec. If that was in the cards, they wouldn’t really be sinking as much time as they are into the elite specs system in the first place.

Ostensibly we’ll be receiving follow-up elite specializations much more frequently than once every three years, as ArenaNet claims that they don’t need to release an expansion to release a new elite spec…but, well, pretty much everyone here is of the opinion, “Yeah, sure guys. We’ll believe it when we see it.”

*if you consider one set of new heal skills and the clearly event-specific gimmick skill Antitoxin Spray to be trying, anyways. I’m ambivalent on that front.

It might not have jived with them, but it sure as hell jived with me. To be honest, I’d much rather play ‘Skill Wars 2’ than this game, but unfortunately this is the game we got and I’ve got to stick with that because I really like the lore and am looking forward to continuing the ‘story’.

I’m hoping that the new elite skills will be something interesting. I rarely use them because for whatever reason they thought that having a 3-5 minute cooldown was appropriate for this game.

Core specs retain the ability to use 3 core trait lines. Some builds just don’t work without that third core trait line.

Elite specs force a trait line, giving you some mechanical changes, but locking you in to the spec trait line for your third. They need to run another balance pass on the core trait lines to make sure it’s still attractive to run 3 core trait lines for some classes, but the idea is that taking an elite spec is going to lock out out of certain core build options because of the trait line.

All of this will make much more sense as more elite specializations are released. The system is in its early stages with only one iteration right now, but elite specs are the additions to the core classes. As stated earlier, the elite specs are not themselves new classes.

One thing that would have been nice, would have been a single ‘elite’ trait added to each of the existing core lines, that you only get if you pick that core line as an ‘elite line’.

That way a player would pick two core trait lines in slots 1 and 2, and then slot 3 would be where they pick a new elite specification, or pick the third core line, and get the special new elite trait from that line.

This would mean that players that pick the same 3 core trait lines would have a variation depending on which of the 3 core lines they selected as the ‘elite’ line.

Kaz.5430:

One thing that would have been nice, would have been a single ‘elite’ trait added to each of the existing core lines, that you only get if you pick that core line as an ‘elite line’.

That way a player would pick two core trait lines in slots 1 and 2, and then slot 3 would be where they pick a new elite specification, or pick the third core line, and get the special new elite trait from that line.

This would mean that players that pick the same 3 core trait lines would have a variation depending on which of the 3 core lines they selected as the ‘elite’ line.

Well, if the intent of the Elite Specializations is to add a new way to play but not add a strictly stronger traitline, then this wouldn’t work. All they need do is make sure the core trait lines are still just as appealing as the elite specs and it would be fine. Many people will be playing Elite Specs at first, but these numbers will change as new meta information comes out.

MiniEquine.6014:

All of this will make much more sense as more elite specializations are released. The system is in its early stages with only one iteration right now, but elite specs are the additions to the core classes. As stated earlier, the elite specs are not themselves new classes.

I agree, but for now having just one elite spec and nothing else is awkward if you don’t like the new spec.
The core classes should recieve some love for players that don’t want to play elite spec.

For example, if druid is effectively a non-pet ranger (according to speculations), what will gain the pet using rangers ? Nothing.

Many people will be playing Elite Specs at first, but these numbers will change as new meta information comes out.

I highly doubt for the guardian case.

IMO, basic core classes should at minimum receive access to their own skills for the new weapons with each xpac.

Ya. Weapons and healing/utility/elite should be accessible without the trait line. The only thing that should be limited to the elite should be any change to the profession mechanic like the F5 for Chronomancer, the Reaper Shroud for Reaper, etc.

It’s easier to balance that way for Anet, but they already simplified the balance with the specialisation.

Not a deal breaker, but still. Would be nice.

There is no difference between a core class and a specialisation. They allready said that core is a specialisation.

the amount of skills you can use doesn’t change.
the amount of traits you can use doesn’t change.
So with the specialisation you only gain more options. but thats it.
On top of that it comes with a handicap.

for example. let’s say you like the warhorn on the warrior. But that means you need the berserker traitline as well. Without that traitline, no warrior. Even if you have no use at all for those traits.

the amount of skills you can use doesn’t change.

No, the core class hasnt access to the new skills.

the amount of traits you can use doesn’t change.

Never said the contrary.

There is no difference between a core class and a specialisation.

A Reaper has 11 more skills than the Necro : 1 healing, 4 utilities, 1 elite, 5 weapons.

The only “handicap” is that one of your three spec cannot be changed.

all classes should get proper balance.

Adding elite specs won’t make fix ele op pvp etc

Scipion.7548:

the amount of skills you can use doesn’t change.

No, the core class hasnt access to the new skills.

the amount of traits you can use doesn’t change.

Never said the contrary.

There is no difference between a core class and a specialisation.

A Reaper has 11 more skills than the Necro : 1 healing, 4 utilities, 1 elite, 5 weapons.

The only “handicap” is that one of your three spec cannot be changed.

What he’s saying is that a Reaper still gets 10 weapon skills, 1 healing skill, 3 utility skills, 1 elite skill, and 9 traits. It doesn’t have any hard-coded advantage over the base Necromancer, it just gets extended options.

As an example: my Engineer (ignoring gear for now as irrelevant) uses Firearms, Inventions, and Alchemy at the moment. All three of those traitlines provide critical tools for her build – it’s the combination of all three that makes Lilyana one of my best/most funtastic characters. I honestly do not expect the upcoming Forge to shake up that build. Dropping any one of those three core traitlines tears huge holes in Lilyana’s build. I don’t believe anything the Forge can do will be worth those holes; if it looks awesome enough that I have to try it, I’ll be building a new Engineer to do so.

That’s what ArenaNet wants/is planning on. Yes, some builds will be able to drop a traitline for the new elite specs without much issue. Some playstyles will click with the elite specs like a glove and that choice will be a no-brainer – but other builds that don’t use the elite specs will still be perfectly viable choices.

If you don’t like the elite spec, don’t use it. But why would they bother making elite specs if everything the elite spec uses is also freely available to the core class?

Honestly, what I’d like to see in the future is attaching some new skills directly to each Core Specialization, which makes having three of them a stronger option, or possibly an Elite that is only available if you have three Core Specializations (“pure” mode").