Guild Wars 2

I’m… not sure how to begin this post. I’d like an honest perspective. That’s asking a lot from as naturally as hostile a venue as the forums, but whatever. There’s a Mark Watney joke here somewhere:
Kapoor: … " Mark, please watch your language. Everything you type is being broadcast live all over the world. "
Watney: …" Yeah?" …

Such is the nature of forums.

Moving on from that here’s the general state of the question rolling around in my head. Since I can’t find quite the wording I want to post something on that itself, it would suggest the question I’m forming is at least disorganized. Speculating on this I’ve tried to decide if the question is worth the bother to write about at all. On the other hand, it’s these disorganized random-walk questions that sometimes have a lot of virtue. It’s like the idea, “…running the edges.” No idea who first phrased that, but the notion is that all networks are like vertices in a geometry. The vertices (or nodal points if you prefer) having the most connections are usually viewed as ‘the greatest’. This notion is quite wrong though, least a person is talking about quantity of connections. The more connections a single node has, the more likely it is concentrated around the center point of a geometry, but not actually having a true center point. If you need an example look up the geometries of the 3D E8. It’s a complicated thing, but at it’s very center (in 3D) it has kitten straight through the middle of it. Further, the best place to observe some sort of system is from the edges. The edge of a system affords the best vista for viewing some other system and in seeing the internal workings of the system which one is getting to the edges of anyway. Rather like coming to the edge of a map in a video game, you get to say, “Ah, ah-hah, this is what this is…,”.

For most of us playing Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns has become ‘end game’. There are a lot of reasons for this. The most rational is simply to keep the maps populated Anet has tried to steer level 80 players entirely toward HoT content. This hasn’t exactly gone well since that content is largely not there, quickly to become repetitive, and generally didn’t keep up with the standards of what an ‘expansion’ has meant for practically all MMOs of all time.

As far as I can tell the general direction of forum posts, including my own, have been to say, “Hey, Anet? You might want to get a handle on this over here before- ,” and then an explosion happens. The hard shift to entirely raiding content, gear grind, time-gating, and very little actual game play has been a growing topic. In some sense, this is the focus of the discussion (for me) in this post, but in essence not the entirety of the intense of the post itself. It’s a discussion, so I’m expecting quite a diverse amount of banter. Or none because some troll will shut people down.

On a side note, why do we call these people trolls? This is MMO community. Isn’t being a troll an invitation for ‘challenging content’ and therefore attack? So, ya. Just putting that out there.

Back on topic… Gaming. Tonight I had the opportunity to play a game with weapon-delay. Weapon delay…
I won’t say which one since this is a pretty retro feature of games today, but I feel it deserves quite a lot of attention. While playing this other game I began to notice that while I wasn’t immediately immersed in it, I was quickly finding it far better than an MMO I’ve played in quite a long time. Being something of a math freak I spotted some details mostly everyone else I was with were just calling, “Good feels,”.
This game was going back to older games by having Weapon Speeds. It’s characters rarely had a weapon speed lower than 2.6 seconds. The one I was watching was 3.6 seconds. Cast times averaged around 3.0 seconds.
The keep point here is something that anyone who has ever taken a drivers test ought to immediately recall being told about: the human reaction time is around 2.0 seconds to 2.6 seconds.
In other words, this game I was watching was actually having things happen at speeds with which I could react. Further, there is a temporal window of activity in which, even during fights, really nothing is going on… on screen. Instead, the player is using a very absent portion of their abilities in say… Guild Wars 2: Consciousness.

In playing this other game I was immediately struck by how often I would say… notice… that this or that creature was about to do something. Further, I had time (you’ll notice there’s around a second’s delay in all the numbers just above) to go, “you know… I don’t like you doing that. Rather than just taking the hit… I’ll …do these things.”

This use of my ability to have or not have consciousness was directly dependent on how much temporal value was actually present in my external experience of the game. The more time the more satisfaction I expected from the ability being used, the less time, the less satisfaction. Not surprisingly, the video game designer was well aware of this and took great advantage of it. Rather than persistently being attacked all the time and myself persistently having the option for several attacks nearly-simultaneously there was a very “you go, then I go,” feel to things. Not so much so that it was clunky either. Animations had time to complete rather than blazing forth in a blur of immediate-incomprehensibility only later retained.

I began to realize that I was fighting individual creatures, even very early creatures, with the same presence of mind as I might have with the Vale-Guardian and other raid bosses of Guild Wars 2. And then, checking the date for this very retro game I felt a profound sort sadness.
Guild Wars 2 used to have this. I remember when I first made my warrior a couple years ago I sword/shield solo’d the blob champion in the Asura starting area. It was quite a tactical little encounter. I got nothing out of doing it because Anet doesn’t reward you for anything, but the satisfaction of fighting a creature that did more than have a sound bite triggering on the same one-trick attack was immensely enjoyable. If you have fought ooze I suggest doing it, they’re about the only kind of creature in Guild Wars 2 that’s any challenge except for the Guild Wars 1 style Dredge in Orr during personal story.

The key points for me began to illuminate from this. Guild Wars 2 is basically making its bosses what they should have been from day one, but really lacks creatures of any challenge what so ever in Open-World of that equivalent. This despite that it doesn’t matter if you were fighting Nesse from DAoC (a gnome), to Trolls in War in the North, to Spiders in World of Warcraft games have usually made an effort to have creatures do… something. Minotuar charge… We have that going for us? Bats evade sometimes.

But all of this goes further, illuminating something I think all players of Guild Wars 2 have always been conscious of… there’s not much game here. Heart of Thorn’s raid content really nails that there is just not that sense of difficulty in the game. I really states the divide between what Guild Wars 2 players are about and what other games have been.
The real End Game for Guild Wars 2 was community based, not Guild based. It was WvW, PvP, and being part of something larger – not smaller. Skins, Exploration, Mini Pets, Dyes, and Story were the momentum of this game and the Guild Wars 2 franchise in general. Guild Wars 1 and 2 were always special in that you could advance your character to the end of its stats quite early on. No legendary armor existed in the first game. You just went to a town, swapped out your character’s build, and off you went again. Only the truly most radical daredevil (and usually task specific person) ever needed to change armor.
Heart of Thorns added Open-World difficulty. Had it done that alone – no raids, no changes to ascended armor drop rates or materials farming difficulty – I think the expansion would have satisfied the void that this game has always had.

This blog seems to summarize most of the Heart of Thorns issues in some general way:
https://toughlovecritic.wordpress.com/2015/03/15/the-thorny-situation-why-heart-of-thorns-must-deliver/

Unfortunately Heart of Thorns just runs out dry on content within hours of you playing it. The levels to grind, the masteries insights / MPs to find, were good while they were part of the Exploration content; it gave the whole expansion a wonderfully Zelda-like feeling. For about a week to a week and a half you can expect the expansion to really feel like it’s going somewhere. Then the content drops quickly to time-gates, multiple achievements from Living World (another kind of time gating), and a perpetual grind that has never been fun in any game… It’s really worst of all in this game because no matter how you try to talk yourself into saying, “It will get better,” the massive amount of time-gated content only goes to emphasize the sheer profundity in the absence of any other kind.

Maybe this wouldn’t be so much the case if Ascended armor had remained accessible. Maybe if the Raids had had a proper beta test by the majority of players instead of crashing until removed and then forced on us after the expansion released. Maybe if the expense of Guild Halls and Scribing (more time gating) hadn’t snuffed out the WvW little roaming guilds that were so critical to making it all work. Maybe…

The list just keeps on… Heart of Thorns would have worked wonderfully as an additional piece of content for Guild Wars 2, but instead it just replaced it. The game has become some sort of vacuum where the only task for those at ‘end game’ can really can imagine to do is farm. Farming isn’t gaming, it’s just getting off school/work to do school/work. “What do I need to farm now? Okay, 250 seaweed… hmm 49 gold or several weeks of gathering. Why am I doing this? Erm, it updates a bar in the Guild Hall. Is anyone even using this?”… And months from now, will anything have changed? “… okay, I need this new Ascended gear. Let’s see, that’s farm this… Wait. Did I just say farm? Wasn’t I doing that last month?”

There’s no ‘game’ right now.

None.

Even if you’re doing raids you’re likely only getting one shot at them once a week. That’s …‘fun’.

So yea, this is a very disorganized post meandering through a lot of issues…

What’s everyone else seeing / feeling from Heart of Thorns?

I had to find my password, then enter a code received via SMS and type while on my phone just to say ‘Well done’! Great post, you summed it all up quite nicely.

My feelings? – GW2 is dead to me and this new game (HoT) I dont like

I uh, you lost me on the geometry. Will edit this post if I get through the the second paragraph.

Edit #1: Yes, attack speeds are nice. GW2 gives you a chance to react. Neat.

Edit #2: Retro? Hummmmmm. So much unnecessary fluff in your writing, it’s almost like you’re trying a little too hard to go into this facade of detailed descriptions that’s, in my opinion, annoying to read. I can’t help but picture someone with his head really far up his own kitten . But I digress. You want every encounter to be unique? Lol -> Resources -> Time ->Current state of the game. (yes I understand you did not state it but it is implied by your texts. Something along the line of: mobs are too static, needs more epicness.)

Edit #3: Ascended armor remain accessible? Can you elaborate? While you’re doing that, can you also elaborate on your problem with raids aside from the launch? There’s not much content there. I will agree, somewhat, on the expense of guild halls and its negative relations to smaller guilds. "The game has become some sort of vacuum….. " I don’t know when you boarded this train, but it’s been going for 3 years now. There’s nothing new there.

Raids are meant to be difficult content, it’s what players have been asking for (not necessarily raids), but difficult content. At least that’s what the “vocal minority" asked for. Amirite?

Achievements are in most games, why is Guild Wars 2 any different? Just because it offers an incentive to accomplish it, i.e. skins, makes it “another kind of time gating”?

Final point. This is just another thread voicing its dissatisfaction with HoT, almost everything is the same, just dragged out longer than it had to be. Anyone can sit here and point out the flaws of Guild Wars 2. Hell, it’s been done repetitively since the launch of the game, more so after HoT. Perhaps you’d get more credibility if you actually voiced your own personal thoughts on what should be done, or as people like to call it: constructive criticism.

P.S. I understand we all have the right to voice our opinions, no matter how drawn out and nonconstructive it is.

Honestly?

I like HoT maps a lot. It’s challenging, which gives a completely different feeling compared to the core Tyria maps. The Metas are also flavorful and fun to do together, instead of just randomly zerging and pressing 1. Well, some VB bosses can still be done like this, but the further in you get, the more you have to know what your character can do.

Dragon’s Stand and Auric Basin metas are loads of fun. TD might need some change on the time (2 hour is a long wait), and some tuning for SCAR lane, but it’s interesting nonetheless. It’s fun doing it with a random PUG and seeing everyone cheering when we made it with 1-2 minutes left. The sense of accomplishment reminds me of the first time I did Triple Trouble.

There are not that many maps by numbers, but I’ll take interesting multiplayer content like DS and AB metas over the whole same old Shiverpeaks + Ascalon map content any day.

I play casually, prolly 1 hour a day or so, so I just took the masteries as a long term goal instead of something I need to get right away. Prolly that’s why I don’t see it as that much of a grind. Same with ascended stuffs. Exotics + Asc Weapon + Asc accessories is enough for raids anyway.

I’m quite glad I don’t work with the OP. I hope all that guff was not just to hype the blog link.

Some don’t like HoT, Some do like HoT. We, the forum, have no way to know what the split is but we’re happy to make stuff up.

That post is outrageously difficult to read. Eirdyne, if you ever want tips on how to communicate more effectively send me a PM and I’ll be happy to help.

Lol at you people.

The op is long and tangled thats for sure but difficult? I read it just fine and the points it made are quite clear. Mayhap you folks are simply used to easy posts? Hey, we’ve had years of casual, easy posting on the GW2 forums, we need harder, time-gated, meta posts now. Maybe you folks should just ltp(ost)

pepsis.5384:

Lol at you people.

The op is long and tangled thats for sure but difficult? I read it just fine and the points it made are quite clear. Mayhap you folks are simply used to easy posts? Hey, we’ve had years of casual, easy posting on the GW2 forums, we need harder, time-gated, meta posts now. Maybe you folks should just ltp(ost)

It’s primarily that giant wall of text paragraph that shoots off on a completely irrelevant tangent and effectively derails the post. The way that Eirdyne tends to interrupt himself so he can violently veer off into something unrelated also doesn’t help. The final problem is the overwrought language that makes the writing feel unnatural. In the industry we refer to it as purple prose and it’s generally frowned upon.

As to the points raised here, I agree with much of what’s being said. HoT is definitely poor on content, the timegates are frustrating and Anet’s attempt to create an endgame has created widescale dissatisfaction in the playerbase. None of these are particularly contentious points, it’s just that the points themselves are buried in a poorly structured post. A third of the post should not be devoted to irrelevant meta-rambling about vertices. That’s poor communication at best and a self-indulgence at worst.

Tapioca.9062:

It’s primarily that giant wall of text paragraph that shoots off on a completely irrelevant tangent and effectively derails the post. The way that Eirdyne tends to interrupt himself so he can violently veer off into something unrelated also doesn’t help. The final problem is the overwrought language that makes the writing feel unnatural. In the industry we refer to it as purple prose and it’s generally frowned upon.

And whooooooooooooooooooooosh went the sarcastic joke over your head. :P

Pepsis was quite literally comparing OPs post to the tangled difficulty of the Hot maps and the responses people get when they criticise said maps.

Very well written post OP.

On my opinion HoT overall is a good expansion (maybe not worth 50$).

The main problem is that is a way to different from the original GW2 and tend to punish solo players.

HoT lost the lvling fluidity that GW2 had …..the freedom of doing what you want without depending of 100 people to finish a meta …….checking constantly your clock to see when a meta starts…..don’t get me wrong ….I quite like HoT …..but …..when I have to collect some items in old Tyria and then come back to HoT …..I feel stressed ……I need to check at what time the meta starts……ask for Taxi ……trying to organize a map and than hoping to succeed the meta…..it’s more like a job than a fun time playing a game.

I would rather have the 1st 3 maps VB, AB , TD with small/medium events that every one can do without organizing 100 people and leave the SD and final mega event.

Im doing the Dark Harvest collection and now I have to grind for probably a week to get 8 mastery doing meta ……..which I wont complain if the meta where smaller but still hard …but thinking of just HOPING that there will be enough people to do the meta and if not ….waiting another 2 hours for the next ……hmm ….it’s making me sad.

Again…..HoT is a good expansion but takes away the freedom,relaxing but still challenging gameplay of the old Tyria .

I Just hope I can finish my collection soon so I can come back to the old Tyria and do other things there.

To my bad/good writing…I’m an ESL speaker. The thing with English I really don’t understand how to do is get to something quickly.

These are the options for how I know to say things on a topic:
- circle the topic with a lot of allusion to the topic
- it’s unlikely anyone is going to agree with the definitions I use because I have sort of invented my own as I experience the use of a word or grammar structure.
- name the topic directly, but then have to consider whether or not the people I’m writing to are familiar with the same topic as me in the same way
- usually I end up horribly mistaken or misunderstood trying to do the step just above.
- make puns: difficult to do without ending up trolling something, “A is like B, and C is B and A, haha.”
- define something: difficult to do since we’re playing a game and anything can be subjective since the point of content is to be experienced.

English allows some pretty wide statements, but it doesn’t tolerate allusions well.
Technique and technology can have direct allusions in French. In English this kind of statement makes people think you’re on drugs.

Usually I’ll opt for one of these tactics or the other:
- long winded meandering paragraphs around a topic for want of better grammar/vocabulary
- short clipped topics that try not to stay one point longer than to say, “this is my point”.

That’s minor.

Will add something more meaningful to this post in the future.

Let’s make some assumptions and I want to get people’s opinion about this. They can disagree or agree with it.

• 16 maps exactly like core Tyria
• Map meta no more difficult than what you find in core Tyria
• Everything is scalable like in core Tyria
• Masteries require half the XP they do now and can be done anywhere
• Masteries require fewer MP than they do now
• All items that are bought with currency require 50% less
• All precursor collections cost less than to buy and are worth doing
• HoT story is as long as the personal story
• Elite specializations require 100 hero points to fully unlock
• All HoT hero points can be done solo

Essentially what I’m getting at is if the expansion was essentially what some of the vocal people on the forums with negative impressions of the expansion want.

How much sooner do you think players would have exhausted content compared to the existing iteration of the expansion?

My personal opinion with the above is that a larger percentage of players would have exhausted content much more quickly under the suggested changes and we’d still have the same posts, if not more, of people bored.

Eirdyne.9843:

To my bad/good writing…I’m an ESL speaker. The thing with English I really don’t understand how to do is get to something quickly.

Three ideas that may could help you:

• try not to write french in english, write english in english
• use the words your audience understands
• the shorter the better

Ayrilana.1396:

How much sooner do you think players would have exhausted content compared to the existing iteration of the expansion?

• the fast “content burners”: A few days, maybe weeks, more
• the casual players: A few month more

When I started with GW2 it took me around 6-8 weeks to get to level 80 with my first character but it took me several months more to explore most of the game.

There’s a lot that I’ve really enjoyed about Heart of Thorns. The maps they gave us were interesting, the story actually wasn’t too terrible (if played as a sylvari; that’s important), guild halls were a good addition that people had wanted for some time, and there were plenty of other little things, including the fact that Dragonhunter changed guardian into my favorite class.
HOWEVER: For all they did right, they did plenty wrong, and most of all, things were just plain -lacking-. The story lacked length and depth (They ignored an enormous amount of potential plot threads [Rytlock] while foolishly snipping others [Faolain]). Guild halls, while nice, have enormous problems with being far too slow and expensive to upgrade to a passable level, while they don’t even offer some simple-yet-necessary things (Namely, decent affordable furniture and the very existence of beds). The economy has definitely shifted, but still favors the richest and those that buy gems over the poor regular player. All that goes on in the jungle is good, but not nearly great. In short, they failed to deliver a product that met our demands or lived up to the price tag… so far.
They can offer a lot more with the coming Living Story content, and I seriously hope that they do. Plenty more story, more maps, and a better approach to the guild hall upgrade system and the economy in general.
Nothing is stopping them from fixing the issues and building on their foundations to make things awesome. I know they can. Especially story-wise, there are plot threads they can pick up that practically write themselves, because of how well they’ve done with the backstory and lore. And inevitably following those story threads would come compelling content.

Why am I doing this? Erm, it updates a bar in the Guild Hall. Is anyone even using this?”… And months from now, will anything have changed? “… okay, I need this new Ascended gear. Let’s see, that’s farm this… Wait. Did I just say farm? Wasn’t I doing that last month?”
There’s no ‘game’ right now.
None.
^ I don’t know how to quote a specific part of your post from my phone so I will just italicize.

This can be applied to any MMO, or really even any video game. Even WoW. If you play that game for long enough you will realize your character getting more powerful is just an elaborately planned out illusion by the game developers. In a few months the next raid tier is released and suddenly everything you accomplished is worthless apart from achievement points and skins.

Achievement points and skins. Like in GW2. They are essentially the same pointless exercise, the only difference is GW2 doesn’t have the progression illusion.

That leads back to the question you originally asked, if we are all ultimately accomplishing nothing,why are we playing?

Well a lot of people tend to get so caught up in gaming that they lose sight of the original motivation and goal: fun. You play the game as a pass time and for fun.

This leads to the logical conclusion, if you are not having fun any more, then by all means you should not be playing the game. There is no reason to invest your precious free time into something both unenjoyable and unproductive. You could find another game, or hobby which are both fun, or perhaps find something actually productive to do, like get another job or whatever.

Anyways, I just find it strange so many people when posting seem absolutely miserable about playing the game, it’s baffling and contradictory to the point of the exercise. No one is holding a gun to my head and forcing me to play, “farm this ascended material” he’s screaming in my ear, nope j/k. I’m only farming it because I want to, and want to because I’m having fun playing the game, at least for now.

Leohart.4610:

Final point. This is just another thread voicing its dissatisfaction with HoT, almost everything is the same, just dragged out longer than it had to be. Anyone can sit here and point out the flaws of Guild Wars 2. Hell, it’s been done repetitively since the launch of the game, more so after HoT. Perhaps you’d get more credibility if you actually voiced your own personal thoughts on what should be done, or as people like to call it: constructive criticism.

Maybe I took something from it he didn’t intend, but to me, it’s a fairly simple message: The game doesn’t have much game in it with HoT and most of what remains is a chore.

I won’t name the game by name, but there’s another game I once played… it came out with something similar to guild halls (and was a variation on housing). There were a few costs here and there, but there were a few things about it that made it really work as “game” content:
1) Despite the costs present, there wasn’t a whole lot to spend coin on in that game, so most people had a lot of excess with nothing else to spend it on.
2) The design of it had amazing customization, so you could literally spend hours tweaking one little aspect of your “house.”
3) Even taking excess of coin into account, the costs were pretty fair (especially for private housing, as opposed to guild housing).

In other words, low barrier to experience it and breadth of customization so you could spend hours on it in sheer time spent designing your own place.

I’m not saying GW2 should have done this with guild halls, but the point is, it’s an example of an incredible amount of lasting content, without huge barriers to entry or heavy grinds.

Eirdyne.9843:

The keep point here is something that anyone who has ever taken a drivers test ought to immediately recall being told about: the human reaction time is around 2.0 seconds to 2.6 seconds.

These estimates of human reaction time are off by an order of magnitude, right? HRT is actually something like 0.25 seconds, isn’kitten

@ William, that’s what I was trying to get at. The delay time on older games is pretty long between one attack to the next. Seeing more than three attacks happen from the same character was pretty rare. Whereas, Guild Wars 2 is mostly a lot of stuff happening all the same time. It really takes away from the experience of the game into some kind of lagging build up to a conscious moment. Some very good arguments about how human beings tolerate suppression could be made here. Before Heart of Thorns one of the most frequent complaints I would get from friends about the game was that it was, “tiring”. When pressed they would say, “because too much is going on at once.”
This same sort of argument has actually lead to things like fireball being shrunk down to more of a needle than a plasma ball. I’m definitely on board with the idea that needed to happen. There was always way too much going on visually. So, the externalized experience of the game – in my opinion – has really been improved by this. Whereas, the internal universe of our experiences isn’t much taken into account.

@ Ayrilana
I don’t know that these things would have improved anything. In fact, changing anything to try to do that probably would have lead to the same problem we’re at now. I’m presuming that’s why you brought it up. It’s the most frequent argument about Heart of Thorns. “This was too hard! This was demands I find mastery points AND hero points! Grrr!”
Really, I think all of those arguments miss the point entirely. Even the Devs reduction on Hero Points required really wasn’t that necessary. The missed point is simply that people are really disgusted with the story writing in this game. A lot of the final Mastery Points a person has to get are trapped in things like Living World: Season 2 story. This wouldn’t be so bad if we just played through the story and then got our Mastery Points. No, instead it’s locked behind weird Achievements like “Keep such all of such and so’s minions alive through all of this section of story.” If you are tied down to just a couple classes that’s asking quite a lot. Most importantly, and this is the critical bit, it’s not optional. Anet wants us to play all of the game, and that’s a fair idea, but a lot of the game is really quite dead. If you need the help of another person, forget it.

@ Zok
thanks, will try

@ Ayrilana
To clarify a bit more:
I think most players are used to doing gaming in the game. Story Mode is about story telling. Guild Wars 1 pulled that off brilliantly. Follow Prince Rurik around while trying to survive Charr, learn to hate Charr, learn to kill Charr, learn Ascalon isn’t coming back – all very show, not tell style exposition. Rurik was just as much struggling with events as we are witnessing them through our characters. Whereas, Guild Wars 2 has a habit of breaking the forth-wall and saying, “Now this is happening, and now this is happening,” and an adult can only take just so much of that.
So, with story being in the poor state it has always been in it’s not surprising people are discontent being asked to do it (a lot) just to get some achievement point, of which they will need many, before they can unlock another Mastery Point. This is all complaints toward Central Tyria.

Magumma is another story. I actually mostly enjoy Maguuma. I’ve not struggled with it at all, so I’m very genuinely confused by the complaints about its difficulty. There are certainly a lot of bugs; enemies have a lot of abilities that disregard things like guardian shield bubbles and Druid arrows-to-healing-wall. Maguuma’s biggest problem rest with a lack of gaming content again. I genuinely struggle with a reason to do anything in Guild Wars 2 right now because other than Raids (1 night a week set by my guilds/friends time schedules and my own), Guild Halls, and Scribing I’ve literally done everything Guild Wars 2 has to offer already.

My general problem with Heart of Thorns rests with the fact it isn’t much to do… ala, game. It’s just of collecting things that arbitrarily go into upgrading the Guild Hall or advancing Scribing some inch more.

I don’t think I can possibly be alone in feeling this is a bit of the issue. Heart of Thorns needed at least one more exploration map just to keep people who want to go on playing …Playing.
For those people whose only joy is collecting seaweed or sand… They got something out of Heart of Thorns. This is really where the shelf lies. If you bought Heart of Thorns expecting to be gaming, then the expansion failed to provide by a wide margin. If you bought Heart of Thorns expecting to be crafting, farming, doing story over over for an AP and doing collections then Heart of Thorns is fantastic.

Mechanically I think Heart of Thorns was a healthy thing as well. It really did up the challenge level just a little bit. Enemies, mostly have long attacks with appropriately high damage. Enemies are more complicated thanks to the Break Bar so you really have to be prepared to think somewhere. It really wasn’t until Fractals and then Silverwastes that Guild Wars 2’s PvE content started to feel like the devs new how to make a creature that could actually be fun. The uniqueness came with Scarlet and then the Silverwastes; again creatures that are doing a lot of their own thing and more than one of it.

The Mordrem are also aware of being part of the Mordrem. Up until the Modrem we really didn’t have to look around for Menders, Archers, etc.

Heart of Thorns map design was amazing while we were using them. I think they really short sighted on things like Nuhoch Walls and Meta Events. I love them mechanically, but the fact they are there reduces traveling the maps to basically nothing. It’s incredibly rare now to just bump into people. Why? We have so many options for not traveling by foot or even glider (teleports) that I can see why new players and lower Mastery Players would feel pretty bummed out. The maps really do feel like ghost towns. Verdant Brink being a fair exception.

But if you look at how the maps are laid out there’s some good reason to see why they work or fail. Verdant Brink starts out on a high ridge overlooking a long abyss. You are instantly aware, “This is what I’m in for.”
Whereas Auric Basin is… a lot of nothing trying to be a lot of something and never really being anything. You start out in what is conceivably a forest canopy. It really seems like the whole map might be some kind of jungle of tree limbs with lots of glinding opportunities. Then you find Tarir forming a giant square around the map so that the whole thing turns into an incredibly narrow, incredibly boring, circuit.

Tangled Depths… could have worked great, but the Chak areas (most of the map) are just five very boring, very straight tunnels. Besides the Chak area the whole zone is mostly wasted after your Mastery Point hunt is over. It’s really unfortunate too since the Mastery Points are in some of the prettiest places I’ve seen in games. I keep regretting this game doesn’t have any concept of open world content like camping because I’d happily spend my evening camping some group of anything in some of those out of the way caves. Instead, it’s just … teleport to the Ley Line Confluence, do event, leave map. Repeat until hate map.

Dragon’s Stand is a glorified Tequatl event that’s awesome but simultaneously wastes a whole map. Silverwastes worked because you were always able to get the evening up and going with some roaming and desperate defense. Dragon’s Stand is just three lanes to farm. The rewards aren’t worth it, though the 100,000 exp is nice. The best thing about it is the last fight. The rest of it really is wasteful.

So that’s at least a few things that really stand out to me.

I have two issues with HoT:

1) the content being produced is more busy work than actual content. Repeating the same thing over and over to accomplish a task rather than just enjoying different aspects of the game. (grinding events for masteries for instance)

2) it is a complete departure from the mentality of the core game. The mentality they had in the core game was accessibility. Make things simple so people can have fun. Nothing takes to long, and yes people will exhaust the content, but they just make more with things like the living world. It was supposed to be very casual friendly. Now HoT requires so much time to grind things out people are getting overwhelmed. It feels to quite a few people like a bait and switch. We expected more core GW2, we got HoT instead.

This is exactly how I feel about the state of the game. Hot? Not.

credit for the image goes to lokikaraoke from Reddit

Honest is a code word for I don’t like it. It’s honest if you don’t like it.

There are some of us who honestly like it though. That’s honest too.

Not that there aren’t flaws in HoT, because there are, but there’s a lot of really good stuff too…for people who share my play style at any rate.

Vayne.8563:

Honest is a code word for I don’t like it. It’s honest if you don’t like it.

There are some of us who honestly like it though. That’s honest too.

Not that there aren’t flaws in HoT, because there are, but there’s a lot of really good stuff too…for people who share my play style at any rate.

That may likely be the case I know I’m really enjoying my Reaper but that said they have yet to discuss any fixes or potential changes for the areas that are flawed. We haven’t had any real feedback of consequence at all on many areas that have been posted regularly since launch, very discouraging. Perhaps they are meeting to review all of these things who really knows because there is no communication and one can’t help but feel like they have their money now so too bad so sad.

As far as honesty goes, I will be giving them until December 16th to at least share their plans on how they are going to fix some of these concerns and if by then we hear nothing or if I’m not happy with their direction I will put my allotted gem money into Black Desert and their beta.

Eirdyne.9843:

I genuinely struggle with a reason to do anything in Guild Wars 2 right now because other than (…) I’ve literally done everything Guild Wars 2 has to offer already.

My general problem with Heart of Thorns rests with the fact it isn’t much to do… ala, game. It’s just of collecting things that arbitrarily go into upgrading the Guild Hall or advancing Scribing some inch more.

I don’t think I can possibly be alone in feeling this is a bit of the issue.

No, you are not alone. But I do not see this as a problem of GW2, but as a basic principle of every MMO.

In every game, the content (story content, call it what you like) is limited. Like in a book or a movie: At some time you are done and have finished the game and you do something else.

But the MMO genre introduced “grinding”, “farming” and “content gating”, so that players stay longer online and do not get (or just get it delayed) the feeling “I have finished the game”.

GW2 is trying to do a lot of things different/better than other MMOs, but it is still a MMO.

A-Net put a lot of good ideas in HoT, and also a lot of things that a lot of players asked for.

However, with this changes, HoT is quite different than the core game. And with changes it will always be expected that some players will be lost (when a company changes a product to make it better or to attract new customers, there will always also be a customer loss because of this changes).

I think A-Net has put a lof good things into HoT, but they have not always found the right balance (as an example, increased the grinding/farming for some things too much, or the new WvW map). Yes, they should fix the bugs and change some things and then some other parts and more parts of the game would be more fun. But it does not change the fact that playes will be done with the game at some time.

I am sorry for you (and lots of others) because it seems there are not many things in HoT that you enjoy (or have enjoyed).

But the fact that I have (kind of) “finished HoT” (at least the parts that are fun for me) does not give me a bad feeling because I had a lot of fun playing HoT.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne.8563:

Honest is a code word for I don’t like it. It’s honest if you don’t like it.

There are some of us who honestly like it though. That’s honest too.

Not that there aren’t flaws in HoT, because there are, but there’s a lot of really good stuff too…for people who share my play style at any rate.

That may likely be the case I know I’m really enjoying my Reaper but that said they have yet to discuss any fixes or potential changes for the areas that are flawed. We haven’t had any real feedback of consequence at all on many areas that have been posted regularly since launch, very discouraging. Perhaps they are meeting to review all of these things who really knows because there is no communication and one can’t help but feel like they have their money now so too bad so sad.

As far as honesty goes, I will be giving them until December 16th to at least share their plans on how they are going to fix some of these concerns and if by then we hear nothing or if I’m not happy with their direction I will put my allotted gem money into Black Desert and their beta.

Actually they have talked about Fractals and they have talked about WvW, at least say they know know the problems but the solution is complex and it’s taking longer than they thought.

I’ve already changed certain other problems and another dev addressed the problems with the collections.

So they have communicated some stuff. People just conveniently ignore them. I’ll see you when you get back from Black Desert I suspect that game is going to suffer badly in the west.

pepsis.5384:

This is exactly how I feel about the state of the game. Hot? Not.

credit for the image goes to lokikaraoke from Reddit

Nailed it perfectly for me. After 1 month of an mmo expansion, i am back to doing dailies and loging off. Maxed out masteries….done 99% of what pve offers (1% left being toxic-eletism from raids and brutal separation implied by anet..who the hell cares what you like to play..u are most likely useless in a raid). And PvP? it’s the biggest joke i’ve seen in an mmo yet. I pitty the ppl who actually consider themselves pro in this PvP system.

I am considering more and more to take the path of my friends and AH my account.

All in all this expansion is “the foundation” (as they call it) of trash covered by fluff. Once you get past that fluff..the smell kicks in. And the grind..oh my god the grinding..i have never experienced such unpleasurable grinding in my whole mmo experience. Korean grinders have become “heaven” compared to this and i am not even kidding. At least those grinders are ACCESSIBLE from a time investment and an effort point of view.

Game has nothing to offer.

People playing are hardcore fanboys and those people who invested too much,and quiting doesn’t pay off.

Only problem is Arena Net lie,and keep saying we don’t want you to farm.If they only admit,world would be much better place to live in.

GW2 is only MMO game,with 0 rewarding system.

As far as i remember,Ree Soesbe said we made rewards system differently,but she forgot to mention there’s no rewards at all.Only reward i am getting in game,is one i give to myself.

In 2 years,i never got item worth over 7.60 gold,what reward we talking about?They presented to us with epic hype,how getting 0 rewards is something cool and new,and we should be proud because we do not have rewarding system in game,and that’s what make us different than other mmo’s?

Well to all players who play any other mmo : My game,Guild Wars 2,is better than your game.I have no rewards in my game,die in agony of jealousness.

Vayne.8563:

Actually they have talked about Fractals and they have talked about WvW, at least say they know know the problems but the solution is complex and it’s taking longer than they thought.

I’ve already changed certain other problems and another dev addressed the problems with the collections.

So they have communicated some stuff. People just conveniently ignore them. I’ll see you when you get back from Black Desert I suspect that game is going to suffer badly in the west.

Both those issues i have no interest in, as i posted in another thread these are the hot button topics i’d like to see discussed;
- not enough mastery points available in content that interests me
- everything in HoT is tied to a dynamic event and group oriented, no hearts
- meta events timers are way too long
- maps are not populated enough to complete the larger events
- every item to craft is incredibly expensive and time consuming
- too much focus on the gem store not enough on in game weapons and armor
- monetization is way too prominent and many items are priced too high or bundled
- leaving a map destroys all your work and progression
- guild items are incredibly costly
- very little encouragement to participate in content you enjoy due to DR

Now as far as Black Desert, you may well be right but the point I’m making is i will continue to put money elsewhere until i see some real honest discussion about these topics and I’m certain I am not the only one doing so.

Black Desert is eye candy but judging by reddit articles i’ve been keeping track of, IN IT’S CURRENT STATE they don’t have endgame, are lacking dungeons, mobs are too easy and boss fights are not that many(?). Just to know what you’re throwing yourself into. They did announced a big chunk of content being released soon so remains to be seen.

But yes….graphically it blows away all competition. Even the combat is awesome from what i’ve seen in videos. Everything you do gives you that epic feeling regardless of the class.

Regardless of how it turns out to be i will be playing that when it comes out…it’s a 1 time buy i should be dumb not to pay for that when i payed for GW2&HoT lol. GW2 reached it’s maximum potential in my opinion.

From what i know the first closed beta (NA/EU?) starts on 14th dec….we will see what’s up then i guess.

The trend of discontent both here and more importantly in-game worries me.

Personally I don’t find it fun. I’m having more enjoyment mapping core on my Revenant with f2p players than I am on my mains in the HoT maps. Normally I wouldn’t care less, that’s just my take so who cares, but this seems to be a common issue from vets I’ve known since Prophecies.

Happy to be proved wrong in 6 months or so but I won’t be holding my breath.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne.8563:

Actually they have talked about Fractals and they have talked about WvW, at least say they know know the problems but the solution is complex and it’s taking longer than they thought.

I’ve already changed certain other problems and another dev addressed the problems with the collections.

So they have communicated some stuff. People just conveniently ignore them. I’ll see you when you get back from Black Desert I suspect that game is going to suffer badly in the west.

Both those issues i have no interest in, as i posted in another thread these are the hot button topics i’d like to see discussed;
- not enough mastery points available in content that interests me
- everything in HoT is tied to a dynamic event and group oriented, no hearts
- meta events timers are way too long
- maps are not populated enough to complete the larger events
- every item to craft is incredibly expensive and time consuming
- too much focus on the gem store not enough on in game weapons and armor
- monetization is way too prominent and many items are priced too high or bundled
- leaving a map destroys all your work and progression
- guild items are incredibly costly
- very little encouragement to participate in content you enjoy due to DR

Now as far as Black Desert, you may well be right but the point I’m making is i will continue to put money elsewhere until i see some real honest discussion about these topics and I’m certain I am not the only one doing so.

Well, you’ve ignored some honest discussion at least. That is to say there’s information out there you’ve ignored. Take hearts.

Hearts were never even meant to be in the game at all. They were only added last minute to show people were dynamic events were. Even in end game zones like Orr there are no hearts. Nor are there any in South Sun or Dry Top or the Silverwastes. There won’t be any more hearts, because hearts were added to train people to stay in the areas were dynamic events are. That’s all they were ever there for. It’s communication. You may not like what it says, but those are the essential facts on the situation. Anet isn’t talking about it now because they’ve said this already.

Also Anet has said straight out that dynamic events, not hearts, were the center and focus of this game. They’ve been saying it since launch. I’m not sure why this should come as a surprise to you.

Maps not being populated is simply not true. Because I’m in those zones every single day and those maps are populated. Now you may get on an ocassional unpopulated map, and you can then use the LFG tool to look for an active map. So your starting premise about those maps being unpopulated is simply in error. No real reason for Anet to discuss this.

Guild items are costly. They’re meant to be a long term goal. Anet said straight out they wanted something for guilds to work toward long term. That’s the reason they were put this way. See, that to me, is communication. You may not like what Anet is saying, but they did in fact say this.

There’s nothing really to discuss here. Anet has made decision you don’t like. You don’t like the monetization system. That’s the business plan. The developers don’t really decide that stuff, the suits do. The suits aren’t going to come talk to us, because we’re not stock holders in NcSoft, at least I’m not. But there are other people to answer to besides just us.

At any rate, I can guarantee you the cash shop in this game is less intrusive than just about all other MMOs that don’t charage a monthly fee.

By all means, vote with your wallet. It’s what you should do. But at the end of the day, Anet knows if their formula is working or not, and they’re going to stick to it if it is. What if Anet came here and said, look this is what we’re doing, tough nuts. Not like that.

You don’t want an honest discussion. You want them to change what they’re doing. Well so do a lot of people.

The problem is not everyone wants stuff changed in the same direction.

pepsis.5384:

This is exactly how I feel about the state of the game. Hot? Not.

credit for the image goes to lokikaraoke from Reddit

jesus that really sums it up for me

Thanks for posting OP. Read it all and get what you are saying.

Here is my opinion of HOT. I liked it at launch and still enjoy it. However, I see valid criticisms of it and understand the reasons.

HOT is different than core GW2. The other day, I played one of my low level alts. The difference in my gaming experience was so distinctly different than my HOT play sessions that it felt like I was playing 2 different games. That is what I think is the heart of the frustration people have with the expansion (pun intended).

The other disturbing thing is that frustration is being expressed in all game modes. I have even seen strong, valid criticisms from lore/story fans.

The only group that seems to be completely satisfied are those that like raids. And until HOT, GW2 was a “no raiding” game. For those that followed GW2 development, you know that the devs/PR people clearly stated multiple times that GW2 would not have raids. And they explained why. So it is curious that the one feature that seems to be a HOT hit is one that was never in the product feature set pre-GW2 launch.

For anyone that is not getting why people keep saying the game has changed, just play Central Tyria and HOT back-to-back several times. It will look and feel different. There is a stark contrast in the experience. And people that experience this have a right to be disappointed and ask Arenanet for clarity on direction.

Again, I like most of what I have experienced so far (excluding WvW/sPVP since have not played since HOT release and Raids, which I do not generally like). But I am concerned about the overall reception that HOT has received. If it has truly been as poor as it appears, this is not good for the game’s future.

Vayne.8563:

Well, you’ve ignored some honest discussion at least. That is to say there’s information out there you’ve ignored. Take hearts.

Hearts were never even meant to be in the game at all. They were only added last minute to show people were dynamic events were. Even in end game zones like Orr there are no hearts. Nor are there any in South Sun or Dry Top or the Silverwastes. There won’t be any more hearts, because hearts were added to train people to stay in the areas were dynamic events are. That’s all they were ever there for. It’s communication. You may not like what it says, but those are the essential facts on the situation. Anet isn’t talking about it now because they’ve said this already.

Also Anet has said straight out that dynamic events, not hearts, were the center and focus of this game. They’ve been saying it since launch. I’m not sure why this should come as a surprise to you.

Maps not being populated is simply not true. Because I’m in those zones every single day and those maps are populated. Now you may get on an ocassional unpopulated map, and you can then use the LFG tool to look for an active map. So your starting premise about those maps being unpopulated is simply in error. No real reason for Anet to discuss this.

Guild items are costly. They’re meant to be a long term goal. Anet said straight out they wanted something for guilds to work toward long term. That’s the reason they were put this way. See, that to me, is communication. You may not like what Anet is saying, but they did in fact say this.

There’s nothing really to discuss here. Anet has made decision you don’t like. You don’t like the monetization system. That’s the business plan. The developers don’t really decide that stuff, the suits do. The suits aren’t going to come talk to us, because we’re not stock holders in NcSoft, at least I’m not. But there are other people to answer to besides just us.

At any rate, I can guarantee you the cash shop in this game is less intrusive than just about all other MMOs that don’t charage a monthly fee.

By all means, vote with your wallet. It’s what you should do. But at the end of the day, Anet knows if their formula is working or not, and they’re going to stick to it if it is. What if Anet came here and said, look this is what we’re doing, tough nuts. Not like that.

You don’t want an honest discussion. You want them to change what they’re doing. Well so do a lot of people.

The problem is not everyone wants stuff changed in the same direction.

Granted I know hearts are a thing of the past but that was more of a short form for saying not enough of the new content is designed for solo players and that is something I greatly miss in HoT

Maps not being populated…now who isn’t being honest? I am not the only one who hates this whole taxi scenario and more than that why can’t they just have it set so you immediately log onto a map that is closest to being full so we don’t have maps with 5 or 6 players where you can be booted from losing all your progress. I see you didn’t bother to respond to that particular section of the post either since I’m sure you have been hit by this once or twice yourself and you know it’s a poor design flaw.

As far as guild items, there is nothing wrong with long term goals but it doesn’t all have to be focused around extreme amounts of value and certainly not every aspect of crafting has to be a royal pain in the butt or so bloody costly. It is absurd to think of how little one get actually make do to the amount of raw materials or the amount of gold needed to purchase them, and heaven forbid you want more than one item within a month if you don’t have deep pockets!

I completely understand the need behind monetization but to be honest it is way over the top and it wasn’t anywhere near this the first 3 years the game was around so yes I have a problem with the current balance of pay to get items vs. what was actually added to the $100.00 version of the expansion I purchased.

Now let’s touch on the items you didn’t care to touch on like the length of meta timers, or is this something you don’t like either but won’t speak up for fear it will actually clash with your all is well image? Is this another imagined issue Anet doesn’t need to deal with or are the hundreds of voices complaining here and on Reddit just being unreasonable? What about the constant DR in areas we actually do enjoy playing in which by the way kicks in prior to people even having the time to complete metas, is that acceptable or do you consider that a non-issue when it comes to “play the way you like”.
I’m tired of the whole ideology the game was built on being thrown aside and yes I think I should question those things as should you. I don’t want this game to fail but I do want them to take notice of what is or isn’t working and frankly unless they are honest and discuss these points we have no idea if it is falling on deaf ears. I doubt that is the case at the grass roots level and the fact is they don’t have the ability to challenge it at a higher level from what I’ve read but if this doesn’t change it can greatly affect the game long term.
Since there is no communication I have no choice but to speak with my wallet and yes I’m aware of the double edged sword and the irony of that statement but if you have a better idea many would love to hear it.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne.8563:

Well, you’ve ignored some honest discussion at least. That is to say there’s information out there you’ve ignored. Take hearts.

Hearts were never even meant to be in the game at all. They were only added last minute to show people were dynamic events were. Even in end game zones like Orr there are no hearts. Nor are there any in South Sun or Dry Top or the Silverwastes. There won’t be any more hearts, because hearts were added to train people to stay in the areas were dynamic events are. That’s all they were ever there for. It’s communication. You may not like what it says, but those are the essential facts on the situation. Anet isn’t talking about it now because they’ve said this already.

Also Anet has said straight out that dynamic events, not hearts, were the center and focus of this game. They’ve been saying it since launch. I’m not sure why this should come as a surprise to you.

Maps not being populated is simply not true. Because I’m in those zones every single day and those maps are populated. Now you may get on an ocassional unpopulated map, and you can then use the LFG tool to look for an active map. So your starting premise about those maps being unpopulated is simply in error. No real reason for Anet to discuss this.

Guild items are costly. They’re meant to be a long term goal. Anet said straight out they wanted something for guilds to work toward long term. That’s the reason they were put this way. See, that to me, is communication. You may not like what Anet is saying, but they did in fact say this.

There’s nothing really to discuss here. Anet has made decision you don’t like. You don’t like the monetization system. That’s the business plan. The developers don’t really decide that stuff, the suits do. The suits aren’t going to come talk to us, because we’re not stock holders in NcSoft, at least I’m not. But there are other people to answer to besides just us.

At any rate, I can guarantee you the cash shop in this game is less intrusive than just about all other MMOs that don’t charage a monthly fee.

By all means, vote with your wallet. It’s what you should do. But at the end of the day, Anet knows if their formula is working or not, and they’re going to stick to it if it is. What if Anet came here and said, look this is what we’re doing, tough nuts. Not like that.

You don’t want an honest discussion. You want them to change what they’re doing. Well so do a lot of people.

The problem is not everyone wants stuff changed in the same direction.

Granted I know hearts are a thing of the past but that was more of a short form for saying not enough of the new content is designed for solo players and that is something I greatly miss in HoT

Maps not being populated…now who isn’t being honest? I am not the only one who hates this whole taxi scenario and more than that why can’t they just have it set so you immediately log onto a map that is closest to being full so we don’t have maps with 5 or 6 players where you can be booted from losing all your progress. I see you didn’t bother to respond to that particular section of the post either since I’m sure you have been hit by this once or twice yourself and you know it’s a poor design flaw.

As far as guild items, there is nothing wrong with long term goals but it doesn’t all have to be focused around extreme amounts of value and certainly not every aspect of crafting has to be a royal pain in the butt or so bloody costly. It is absurd to think of how little one get actually make do to the amount of raw materials or the amount of gold needed to purchase them, and heaven forbid you want more than one item within a month if you don’t have deep pockets!

I completely understand the need behind monetization but to be honest it is way over the top and it wasn’t anywhere near this the first 3 years the game was around so yes I have a problem with the current balance of pay to get items vs. what was actually added to the $100.00 version of the expansion I purchased.

Now let’s touch on the items you didn’t care to touch on like the length of meta timers, or is this something you don’t like either but won’t speak up for fear it will actually clash with your all is well image? Is this another imagined issue Anet doesn’t need to deal with or are the hundreds of voices complaining here and on Reddit just being unreasonable? What about the constant DR in areas we actually do enjoy playing in which by the way kicks in prior to people even having the time to complete metas, is that acceptable or do you consider that a non-issue when it comes to “play the way you like”.
I’m tired of the whole ideology the game was built on being thrown aside and yes I think I should question those things as should you. I don’t want this game to fail but I do want them to take notice of what is or isn’t working and frankly unless they are honest and discuss these points we have no idea if it is falling on deaf ears. I doubt that is the case at the grass roots level and the fact is they don’t have the ability to challenge it at a higher level from what I’ve read but if this doesn’t change it can greatly affect the game long term.
Since there is no communication I have no choice but to speak with my wallet and yes I’m aware of the double edged sword and the irony of that statement but if you have a better idea many would love to hear it.

I didn’t comment on the length of meta timers, because I don’t necessarily disagree. I don’t disagree with every criticism made and I either agree with people if I agree or don’t comment if it’s not an issue for me one way or another.

However, I cut your list in half.

Now you want Anet to communicate with you on every complaint you have? Not going to happen. And that’s probably true of most games. People have complaints, and if the devs have nothing to say other than it’s not going to change, they’re not going to communicate.

Where Anet feels work is required they have communicated. Where they feel the game is what they want it to be they won’t. There’s no real percentage for them in coming here and saying, sorry we like it how it is. So yeah, that’s that.

As for the traffic on the maps, I am being honest. There’s traffic on maps. I very rarely have to use the LFG tool, but I have occasionally. This is one problem I think is being over-represented.

I suspect you don’t play those maps enough to even reach an educated conclusion. I’m in those maps a good portion of my day and I’m getting stuff done all the time…mostly without having to switch servers.

Just going back to the Hearts thing.
I have to say that as a new player (3 months now) I found the Heart tasks a really refreshing thing in the game so it’s a shame they are not adding new ones, especially in HoT which seems to need a bit of light relief.

Every RPG since forever has had the thing where you see an NPC with a symbol over their heads, talk to them to get a task which you complete then go talk to them again to get the reward. The hearts are a slicker version of that, doing away with the talking and with the always-cluttered quest log.

I like the events too but Hearts would be right up there on my list of things the game does well! (although I’m still not convinced of the benefits of entertaining a cow).

Maybe the game is starting to take itself too seriously.

DoctorDing.5890:

Just going back to the Hearts thing.
I have to say that as a new player (3 months now) I found the Heart tasks a really refreshing thing in the game so it’s a shame they are not adding new ones, especially in HoT which seems to need a bit of light relief.

Every RPG since forever has had the thing where you see an NPC with a symbol over their heads, talk to them to get a task which you complete then go talk to them again to get the reward. The hearts are a slicker version of that, doing away with the talking and with the always-cluttered quest log.

I like the events too but Hearts would be right up there on my list of things the game does well! (although I’m still not convinced of the benefits of entertaining a cow).

Maybe the game is starting to take itself too seriously.

I think end game should take itself seriously. The whole idea of a heart is that we’re in friendly territory helping out the people who live there.

In this game, end game, we’re in enemy territory and we’re fighting a war. There’s a game full of light relief,

My favorite zones in the game before HoT were Straits of Devestation and Hirathi because I felt like I was fighting a war.

And right there is the disconnect for many of the core game players.

As for taking it seriously, I struggle a bit with the whole plant thing because, you know, weedkiller.

It was like this is Guild Wars 1 though. The light stuff was all early and as you got deeper into end game it got more serious.

Ayrilana.1396:

Let’s make some assumptions and I want to get people’s opinion about this. They can disagree or agree with it.

• 16 maps exactly like core Tyria
• Map meta no more difficult than what you find in core Tyria
• Everything is scalable like in core Tyria
• Masteries require half the XP they do now and can be done anywhere
• Masteries require fewer MP than they do now
• All items that are bought with currency require 50% less
• All precursor collections cost less than to buy and are worth doing
• HoT story is as long as the personal story
• Elite specializations require 100 hero points to fully unlock
• All HoT hero points can be done solo

Essentially what I’m getting at is if the expansion was essentially what some of the vocal people on the forums with negative impressions of the expansion want.

How much sooner do you think players would have exhausted content compared to the existing iteration of the expansion?

Probably a couple of days and would start kittening again about “no content”.
Let’s be honest folks, you cannot create thounsands of unique content to play.
Even in masterpieces like Witcher 3, many missions can feel grindy because they are always the same stuff (speak/kill)…sure there is some lore around (and there is TON of lore in GW2 too, if you care to get it) but the so long 100h gameplay of W3 can be condensend in maybe 20h of unique gameplay. Maybe.
I feel that combining all maps (stories in all lanes) + personal story we surely have at least 10-15h of unique content.

Then, like ANY game, you start a circle of repetition to “keep up” the fun.
I mean, in a drive game you keep repeting the kitten same track trying to get a lower time or to be the first… and that’s just an example.
In this “circle” then you add rewards and achiev for various stuff to justify the repetition.

Guys, we can be philophers all the time we want but anything in life is rinse and repeat.
The goal is to make it fun and worthwhile.
(Grind here has a “good” meaning, like an “honest repetition”)
IRL we grind our work to have money and get the stuff we want, we grind a sport to become better at that, we grind a game to have fun and achiev some goals with our friends or to show off.

In our specific case I find the “repetition” of GW2 quite enjoyable and now with HoT (where you cannot anymore get almost everything with gold) there is even more weight in the real gameplay you put in game.

An example out of my mind are the new pre/legendaries. Yes they are hella costy (i guess the cost could be lowered a bit) but making one ACTUALLY show of you worked hard on that and you cannot credit card it.

So to sum up, yes, i’m satisfied that GW2 is taking this route. They HAVE to work on polish/balance/bugs but the overall visions are good imho, and this is a game I see myself playing for a long time.

Cheers forums!

I feel like some of the design elements in HoT are passive aggressive responses to the community. For example: There is zero way people can have an objective meeting and come away thinking the majority of people who play GW2 would find Guild Hall building fun. Key word is majority. The game has, for the most part been built around casual play. The amount of materials needed to build the upgrades in the guild hall are not a casual amount. So the place that is meant to be a social gathering place in a game designed for casual players needs to be an almost bottomless gold and material sink?

That’s passive aggressive design response.

Besides dailies, my guild has literally quit GW2. Over 180 people. It shocks me. I don’t know who they were designing this for, but it’s not my guild and we are all sad about it.

I’ll keep doing my dailies in the hopes that they change the direction of the ship towards something more palatable on the horizon.

We have a fairly large guild 300 + and the daily representation has been down almost 50%. I too hope that some things change like I said I loved the game if I hadn’t I would never have purchased the deluxe expansion and a 2nd account without knowing what we were in store for in HoT. I and many others are not happy with a lot of the elements in the expansion and all we’ve asked for is some kind of response or direction going forward. I get that they don’t discuss new projects but let’s be frank here this is content already in game what the hell is the harm of coming to the boards and sharing their thoughts and opinions with their player base.

No answers of consequence, all we ever get is comments on fluff topics it’s infuriating and quite disappointing, not to say very unprofessional. Anyway I’ll play when I feel like it but I’m to the point now months in I don’t really care what happens because I’m out looking for other things to occupy my time and spend my money on.