Guild Wars 2

So, I just don’t have an SSD and my load times are too high to play the AB multi-map mini-game. I was just wondering if we could maybe just multiply the loot rewards on the Tarir Assault by 10 and call it a day? I mean it doesn’t hurt the economy or anything and everyone’s doing it! Let’s make it official! Whattya say?

No.

AB Multilooting is an exploit and it objectively hurts the economy, because it damages the prices of all tradable loot in the game. It doesnt work in DS for a reason and so it should here.
Also: I have over 120 inventory spaces and a Copperfed-SK, and I can barely hold the loot of a single run. If the loot is tenfold nobody will be able to hold it, letalone the amount of keys you would need.

@hornswroggle +1 I also see it as an exploit and please don’t pretend it does not hurt the economy. A single looting of the chests is enough reward for putting the effort of completing a meta event. Looting multiple times those chests -is- an exploit despite many sugar coating it and saying it isn’t. The way I see it you should put time and effort for the loot and reward you get. I dont think anyone should be rewarded with so much rewards for simply forming a squad and jumping across several maps. This multiloot thing needs to end, imo.

If they nerf the multiloot I´ll be leaving the game. At least in the ML there is communication and you fight things. Only other thing worth doing in the game is silverwastes or farming materials. I´d rather scratch out my eyes than do either of these two activites everydays for hours.

Any change to the meta in AB is going to come with collateral damage. Some people will be unhappy and some of those will leave. Probably not as many as threaten to leave.

On the other hand, it’ll mean more people doing other metas, like TD and VB, which would make some of us happier and, in my opinion, would be worth it in the long run.

The AB meta is something that’s been going on for too long. It really doesn’t help the game as a whole. It helps the types of people that can farm the same event over and over again because it’s profitable. I submit that’s not a majority of the playerbase.

As long the AB meta pulls people from other areas of the game, it’s a problem that needs addressing in my opinion.

hornswroggle.8023:

No.

AB Multilooting is an exploit and it subjectively hurts the economy, because it damages the prices of all tradable loot in the game. It doesnt work in DS for a reason and so it should here.

Fixed.

Hesacon.8735:

hornswroggle.8023:

No.

AB Multilooting is an exploit and it subjectively hurts the economy, because it damages the prices of all tradable loot in the game. It doesnt work in DS for a reason and so it should here.

Fixed.

I’m not sure how it’s subjective. It’s a form of inflation. If you can increase rewards to the point where they’re so profitable that people are threatening to leave if it’s fixed, something is wrong.

No aspect of the game should be so profitable that everything else pales in comparison, particularly something that’s 15 minutes long than almost anyone can do.

When you pour gold/loot into the system, you get inflation, which is objectively bad for the economy.

It forces people to play stuff like the AB multimeta if they want to afford things, because a bunch of people who do it can afford to pay more, and prices go up for everyone…but not everyone does it or wants to do it.

There’s nothing subjective about it.

Vayne.8563:

Hesacon.8735:

hornswroggle.8023:

No.

AB Multilooting is an exploit and it subjectively hurts the economy, because it damages the prices of all tradable loot in the game. It doesnt work in DS for a reason and so it should here.

Fixed.

I’m not sure how it’s subjective. It’s a form of inflation. If you can increase rewards to the point where they’re so profitable that people are threatening to leave if it’s fixed, something is wrong.

People threatening to leave are stupid. Go read the pvp and wvw forums, people claim to quit over the silliest of slights.

You call it inflation, but I don’t think you know what it means.

• It lowers the price of ectos, which is deflation
• It has a negligible effect on the supply or demand of other materials, since VB/TD/DS/dungeons/silverwastes can generate similar amounts of blues/greens
• It lowers the overall supply of coin since the trading post takes 15% of the coins for everything sold on it. As a result, every gold you have has more buying power. AB generates very few coins.

So for those who don’t go to AB and join a multi-map squad, they still get lower prices for everything across the board. The subjective part is whether or not lower prices are a good thing.

No aspect of the game should be so profitable that everything else pales in comparison, particularly something that’s 15 minutes long than almost anyone can do.

A half-hour and you still need map currency or map events for the keys. It would be easy to exhaust your supply of lumps of aurillium doing multi-map if you don’t already have a large reserve. If you want to nerf AB, triple the cost of keys.

When you pour gold/loot into the system, you get inflation, which is objectively bad for the economy.

It forces people to play stuff like the AB multimeta if they want to afford things, because a bunch of people who do it can afford to pay more, and prices go up for everyone…but not everyone does it or wants to do it.

There’s nothing subjective about it.

I addressed this. It causes deflation. Whether or not lower prices are good is a subjective debate worth having. Just don’t pretend it’s the cause of all the ills in the world.

Vayne.8563:

Any change to the meta in AB is going to come with collateral damage. Some people will be unhappy and some of those will leave.

No they won’t, they’ll just move on to the next easiest means they can think of to farm gold/mats.

Sure, many will complain… but if anyone were to leave over the multi-mapping loot exploit getting squashed, then they were already going to leave the game and were just looking for an excuse.

~EW

Hesacon.8735:

Vayne.8563:

Hesacon.8735:

hornswroggle.8023:

No.

AB Multilooting is an exploit and it subjectively hurts the economy, because it damages the prices of all tradable loot in the game. It doesnt work in DS for a reason and so it should here.

Fixed.

I’m not sure how it’s subjective. It’s a form of inflation. If you can increase rewards to the point where they’re so profitable that people are threatening to leave if it’s fixed, something is wrong.

People threatening to leave are stupid. Go read the pvp and wvw forums, people claim to quit over the silliest of slights.

You call it inflation, but I don’t think you know what it means.

• It lowers the price of ectos, which is deflation
• It has a negligible effect on the supply or demand of other materials, since VB/TD/DS/dungeons/silverwastes can generate similar amounts of blues/greens
• It lowers the overall supply of coin since the trading post takes 15% of the coins for everything sold on it. As a result, every gold you have has more buying power. AB generates very few coins.

So for those who don’t go to AB and join a multi-map squad, they still get lower prices for everything across the board. The subjective part is whether or not lower prices are a good thing.

No aspect of the game should be so profitable that everything else pales in comparison, particularly something that’s 15 minutes long than almost anyone can do.

A half-hour and you still need map currency or map events for the keys. It would be easy to exhaust your supply of lumps of aurillium doing multi-map if you don’t already have a large reserve. If you want to nerf AB, triple the cost of keys.

When you pour gold/loot into the system, you get inflation, which is objectively bad for the economy.

It forces people to play stuff like the AB multimeta if they want to afford things, because a bunch of people who do it can afford to pay more, and prices go up for everyone…but not everyone does it or wants to do it.

There’s nothing subjective about it.

I addressed this. It causes deflation. Whether or not lower prices are good is a subjective debate worth having. Just don’t pretend it’s the cause of all the ills in the world.

I disagree. Creating more gold means more people can offer more to buy stuff. So maybe ectos come down a drop, that’s true. That’s one item. But higher end items can actually end up going up.

The problem is when people have more gold they can afford to pay more for luxury items. Items end up in bidding wars and they go higher then the average player will ever be able to afford.

People who used to get ectos from the world boss train will return to the world boss train. The price of ectos isn’t that much lower than back then.

But the price of a lot of other stuff, higher end stuff keeps going up, because people have more money and can outbid each other.

Vayne.8563:

Hesacon.8735:

Vayne.8563:

Hesacon.8735:

hornswroggle.8023:

No.

AB Multilooting is an exploit and it subjectively hurts the economy, because it damages the prices of all tradable loot in the game. It doesnt work in DS for a reason and so it should here.

Fixed.

I’m not sure how it’s subjective. It’s a form of inflation. If you can increase rewards to the point where they’re so profitable that people are threatening to leave if it’s fixed, something is wrong.

People threatening to leave are stupid. Go read the pvp and wvw forums, people claim to quit over the silliest of slights.

You call it inflation, but I don’t think you know what it means.

• It lowers the price of ectos, which is deflation
• It has a negligible effect on the supply or demand of other materials, since VB/TD/DS/dungeons/silverwastes can generate similar amounts of blues/greens
• It lowers the overall supply of coin since the trading post takes 15% of the coins for everything sold on it. As a result, every gold you have has more buying power. AB generates very few coins.

So for those who don’t go to AB and join a multi-map squad, they still get lower prices for everything across the board. The subjective part is whether or not lower prices are a good thing.

No aspect of the game should be so profitable that everything else pales in comparison, particularly something that’s 15 minutes long than almost anyone can do.

A half-hour and you still need map currency or map events for the keys. It would be easy to exhaust your supply of lumps of aurillium doing multi-map if you don’t already have a large reserve. If you want to nerf AB, triple the cost of keys.

When you pour gold/loot into the system, you get inflation, which is objectively bad for the economy.

It forces people to play stuff like the AB multimeta if they want to afford things, because a bunch of people who do it can afford to pay more, and prices go up for everyone…but not everyone does it or wants to do it.

There’s nothing subjective about it.

I addressed this. It causes deflation. Whether or not lower prices are good is a subjective debate worth having. Just don’t pretend it’s the cause of all the ills in the world.

I disagree. Creating more gold means more people can offer more to buy stuff. So maybe ectos come down a drop, that’s true. That’s one item. But higher end items can actually end up going up.

The problem is when people have more gold they can afford to pay more for luxury items. Items end up in bidding wars and they go higher then the average player will ever be able to afford.

People who used to get ectos from the world boss train will return to the world boss train. The price of ectos isn’t that much lower than back then.

But the price of a lot of other stuff, higher end stuff keeps going up, because people have more money and can outbid each other.

You’re forgetting that there’s a difference between creating new gold and moving gold already existing in the game. Players selling off ectos and whatnot means that gold is moving from player to player in the TP, where there’s a money sink taking a percentage. This is removing gold from the game, while redistributing wealth between players. Anytime things are bought from the TP or vendors gold leaves the economy.

The new gold coming into the game comes from vendor sales, mob/bag drops, event/heart rewards, and dailies.

So, yes there’s new people able to afford ‘luxury’ items that weren’t able to before due to the TP profits from running the multi-map exploit… but the money they got came from people who didn’t spend it on luxury items… wealth is just being redistributed instead of being saved up… so even if luxury item prices are rising, it’s because it’s adjusting to a more active/healthy economy. They’ll find a new equilibrium.

~EW

Vayne.8563:

I disagree. Creating more gold means more people can offer more to buy stuff. So maybe ectos come down a drop, that’s true. That’s one item. But higher end items can actually end up going up.

The problem is when people have more gold they can afford to pay more for luxury items. Items end up in bidding wars and they go higher then the average player will ever be able to afford.

People who used to get ectos from the world boss train will return to the world boss train. The price of ectos isn’t that much lower than back then.

But the price of a lot of other stuff, higher end stuff keeps going up, because people have more money and can outbid each other.

No gold is created in AB. Seriously, have you gotten a single coin from a chest in AB? Go try one out.

Salvaging costs coin, selling on the trading post costs coin, keys cost coin. You might get 2-3 silver per map from champion bags in chests, much less than it costs in coin to run the map.

Coin is destroyed because of AB, it has the opposite effect to what you think is happening.

Let’s think about this, say you do 5 maps and get 25 ectos. How does this balance sheet work in terms of coin removed from the economy? Let’s say ectos sell for 33 silver, they’ve been floating around there.

• -15.36 silver from salvaging
• +15 silver from champion bags

Let’s say these cancel out.

33 silver * 25 ectos = 8.25 gold

• You get 7 gold (after the 15% trading post tax)
• 1.25 gold vanishes from the economy never to be seen again

Fewer coins in circulation causes deflation. If there is inflation, it’s coming from elsewhere like 2 gold per day for doing dailies.

Ecto prices would almost certainly rise without AB in its current form, remember when ectos were over 50 silver each?

http://www.gw2shinies.com/item/19721

Two things happened to bring them down:

• Someone posted about AB on the forums, so people knew about the multi-map and more people started to do it, increasing supply and lowering prices
• Some people horded ectos thinking AB was going to be nerfed with the summer update. When it wasn’t, people unloaded their ectos leading to a sudden shock to the supply

But the underlying uses of them haven’t gone down. So if AB gets nerfed, ecto prices will go back up, probably to 50 silver or higher over a couple weeks. That is subjectively either a good or a bad thing depending on who you ask, my entire point.

Hesacon.8735:

Vayne.8563:

I disagree. Creating more gold means more people can offer more to buy stuff. So maybe ectos come down a drop, that’s true. That’s one item. But higher end items can actually end up going up.

The problem is when people have more gold they can afford to pay more for luxury items. Items end up in bidding wars and they go higher then the average player will ever be able to afford.

People who used to get ectos from the world boss train will return to the world boss train. The price of ectos isn’t that much lower than back then.

But the price of a lot of other stuff, higher end stuff keeps going up, because people have more money and can outbid each other.

No gold is created in AB. Seriously, have you gotten a single coin from a chest in AB? Go try one out.

Salvaging costs coin, selling on the trading post costs coin, keys cost coin. You might get 2-3 silver per map from champion bags in chests, much less than it costs in coin to run the map.

Coin is destroyed because of AB, it has the opposite effect to what you think is happening.

Let’s think about this, say you do 5 maps and get 25 ectos. How does this balance sheet work in terms of coin removed from the economy? Let’s say ectos sell for 33 silver, they’ve been floating around there.

• -15.36 silver from salvaging
• +15 silver from champion bags

Let’s say these cancel out.

33 silver * 25 ectos = 8.25 gold

• You get 7 gold (after the 15% trading post tax)
• 1.25 gold vanishes from the economy never to be seen again

Fewer coins in circulation causes deflation. If there is inflation, it’s coming from elsewhere like 2 gold per day for doing dailies.

Ecto prices would almost certainly rise without AB in its current form, remember when ectos were over 50 silver each?

http://www.gw2shinies.com/item/19721

Two things happened to bring them down:

• Someone posted about AB on the forums, so people knew about the multi-map and more people started to do it, increasing supply and lowering prices
• Some people horded ectos thinking AB was going to be nerfed with the summer update. When it wasn’t, people unloaded their ectos leading to a sudden shock to the supply

But the underlying uses of them haven’t gone down. So if AB gets nerfed, ecto prices will go back up, probably to 50 silver or higher over a couple weeks. That is subjectively either a good or a bad thing depending on who you ask, my entire point.

If you’re creating an item, whether it’s coin or worth coin, you’re causing inflation. People are making money from selling stuff to other people, but they’re still getting money much faster than they otherwise would be. That’s why multimapping is so popular. It’s not popular because ZOMG AB is the most fascinating event in all of Guild Wars 2. AB is the most profitable event in all of Guild Wars 2. Inflation or not that actually represents a problem. It’s not just more profitable but MUCH more profitable. If it wasn’t threads like this probably wouldn’t exist.

When people get large amounts of money from getting ten times the reward they would normally get, I don’t see how anyone can not expect that to affect the economy.

And since this is now very tangential to the topic at hand I’m going to have to leave it here, because I can’t afford more infractions.

There’s already a thread about whether AB/ML is an “exploit” — please let’s not turn this one into another.

This thread was started by someone complaining that they can’t multiloot because they don’t have an SSD. I can’t imagine that is the sole reason, since plenty of people multi just fine without one.

Consequently, there’s zero chance that ANet would spend extra time buffing the rewards without requiring more effort on the part of participants. If ANet spends time, it will either be to produce something like ML for the other maps or change the mechanics in AB so that the loot returns to being comparable to the other three maps.

Vayne.8563:

If you’re creating an item, whether it’s coin or worth coin, you’re causing inflation. People are making money from selling stuff to other people, but they’re still getting money much faster than they otherwise would be. That’s why multimapping is so popular. It’s not popular because ZOMG AB is the most fascinating event in all of Guild Wars 2. AB is the most profitable event in all of Guild Wars 2. Inflation or not that actually represents a problem. It’s not just more profitable but MUCH more profitable. If it wasn’t threads like this probably wouldn’t exist.

When people get large amounts of money from getting ten times the reward they would normally get, I don’t see how anyone can not expect that to affect the economy.

And since this is now very tangential to the topic at hand I’m going to have to leave it here, because I can’t afford more infractions.

I don’t understand how you’re not understanding this. Here is how wikipedia defines inflation:

In economics, inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. When the price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services. Consequently, inflation reflects a reduction in the purchasing power per unit of money

Because coins are vanishing from the economy, each unit of coin buys more goods and services than they otherwise would. If we were using ectos as currency (we’re not), then you’d be right, there is inflation. You can buy fewer Bifrosts per ectos than in June.

In June, a Bifrost cost 4000-5000 gold.

http://www.gw2shinies.com/item/30698

So if you were straight trading ectos for Bifrosts, you’d have to pay more ectos, there would be inflation in terms of ectos. But in terms of coins (in which almost all debts in GW2 are paid), it is cheaper to buy a Bifrost today using coins than in June at peak ecto prices.

If everyone playing logged in today and had 10,000,000 ectos sitting in their mail, ectos would be worthless, but the price of mithril would be unaffected. The price of things that require ectos (like a Bifrost) would go down by the cost of ectos required to make one.

If your goal is reducing inflation in terms of coins, then you should want AB to exist in its current form. If you think it’s bad that people can obtain so much loot relative to other methods of playing, that’s valid. Just don’t use inflation as your justification because it doesn’t pan out.

The economics here says that AB leads to lower prices for everything in the game.

AliamRationem.5172:

So, I just don’t have an SSD and my load times are too high to play the AB multi-map mini-game. I was just wondering if we could maybe just multiply the loot rewards on the Tarir Assault by 10 and call it a day? I mean it doesn’t hurt the economy or anything and everyone’s doing it! Let’s make it official! Whattya say?

Well, I normally DON’T feed the trolls….But I must say:
BUMBLE PUG FOREVER!!!1111ONE
cough
AB Multi-Map is a merged-oh-so-HoT-topic (see wut I did thar?), Some love it…some hate it…and some don’t know wtf it is.
It IS an effective farm.
It IS a fun map to play on (Auric Basin)
It IS a co-operative Meta that MUST BE completed in order to get Grand Chests at the end.
Is it an exploit? I honestly don’t know- everyone has a different view on how to interpret the ToS/ I leave that research up to ANet- MY loot is actually THEIR loot.
Is it hard to join a multi map? NO
Is it hard to understand the instructions from the commander when you join the squad? well, unless you don’t read or understand the language used on that server- your just not paying attention- that’s your problem….not the commanders or ANET.
Enjoy the game, play the Meta of your choosing- don’t put down one play style someone else may enjoy…find what YOU think is fun, and what farm you need to make your gear the way YOU want it- or armor skins, and pretty weapons. (My downfall on those- love my outfits!)
Peace
And don’t forget to play your neglected Warrior!

Weird, I don’t have an SSD either and my loading screens only last for 1 or 2 seconds. I can easily loot 10 maps, if my map finishes fast I can do a few more on an other character.

AliamRationem.5172:

So, I just don’t have an SSD and my load times are too high to play the AB multi-map mini-game. I was just wondering if we could maybe just multiply the loot rewards on the Tarir Assault by 10 and call it a day? I mean it doesn’t hurt the economy or anything and everyone’s doing it! Let’s make it official! Whattya say?

Don’t abuse hyperbole if you want anyone to take you seriously.

AliamRationem.5172:

So, I just don’t have an SSD and my load times are too high to play the AB multi-map mini-game. I was just wondering if we could maybe just multiply the loot rewards on the Tarir Assault by 10 and call it a day? I mean it doesn’t hurt the economy or anything and everyone’s doing it! Let’s make it official! Whattya say?

I really don’t feel sorry that you can’t abuse an exploit to gain extra loot without working for it.

As for the rewards, AB is already the most rewarding meta (DS might be better, haven’t done it personally though so IDK what the rewards are like), they don’t need buffing. If anything the rewards from other metas (specifically TD) could be buffed to help encourage people to play in those maps instead. But most definitely the multilooting needs to be addressed by ANet. I don’t think they should allow it in the game, but whether they are ok with it or not they need to make a statement one way or another.

Just find a multimap where people are cool with slightly longer loading times. Not everyone kicks from the lobby after a few seconds. Either that or get a tag and make one yourself, use the multimaps to make up the tag cost.. It’s not actually very hard. Most people know the meta, just throw up a squad.

Time to merge this with https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Auric-Basin-Loot-Exploit-merged/page/9#post6310052?

I wasn’t being serious, guys. I sort of figured somebody would pick up on the fact that asking for loot from a boss to be multiplied by 10 is a ridiculous request. But I suppose the fact that you’ve been receiving 10x the loot via AB multi for so long has clouded your judgment on this one.

I’ve heard all the defenses. If players weren’t doing AB multi, they’d be farming something else. Very true! However, it’s generally poor design to have one activity that provides vastly more reward than everything else as it devalues the rest of the content. The longer this continues, the more you will see that come to bear as players find everything else less rewarding by comparison.

The other issue is that not all players want to play the LFG mini-game all the time. I’ve said it before: I love the HoT maps, but I hate the way the events are set up to require showing up at a certain time and hopping maps. Now, in order to get not just a little more loot but a great deal more, I have to play the LFG mini-game on speed!

Would this be an issue if AB were comparable to every other HoT meta reward? Of course not! Don’t like AB? Do TD. The rewards are similar! But currently if I make that choice I’m essentially wasting my time as I get next to nothing relative to AB multi.

It’s poor design. Plain and simple. I don’t like it and I wish they’d fix it. As I told my guild last night, it makes me feel I’m wasting my time in this game if I don’t AB multi, but AB multi itself feels like a waste of time. What’s the point? Might as well go play Legion!

I don’t do AB farm or any other TD/VB/DS meta…

Sure I’d make a lot more gold grinding out AB but that’s boring af and if I try to maximize my gold gain every second of game play that basically becomes work instead of a game.

The people who want to grind AB do so for a reason, they have goals/targets to aim for that is why they do it. If you don’t feel like doing it then don’t, it is indeed a waste of time if you aren’t enjoying yourself and feel like you’re doing AB for no reason.

It all comes down to, why are you feeling left behind not farming AB? It’s not a big deal and with ecto prices so low and the gold/hr is totally overblown while things like Fotm 40 farm exists.

Vayne.8563:

Hesacon.8735:

Vayne.8563:

I disagree. Creating more gold means more people can offer more to buy stuff. So maybe ectos come down a drop, that’s true. That’s one item. But higher end items can actually end up going up.

The problem is when people have more gold they can afford to pay more for luxury items. Items end up in bidding wars and they go higher then the average player will ever be able to afford.

People who used to get ectos from the world boss train will return to the world boss train. The price of ectos isn’t that much lower than back then.

But the price of a lot of other stuff, higher end stuff keeps going up, because people have more money and can outbid each other.

No gold is created in AB. Seriously, have you gotten a single coin from a chest in AB? Go try one out.

Salvaging costs coin, selling on the trading post costs coin, keys cost coin. You might get 2-3 silver per map from champion bags in chests, much less than it costs in coin to run the map.

Coin is destroyed because of AB, it has the opposite effect to what you think is happening.

Let’s think about this, say you do 5 maps and get 25 ectos. How does this balance sheet work in terms of coin removed from the economy? Let’s say ectos sell for 33 silver, they’ve been floating around there.

• -15.36 silver from salvaging
• +15 silver from champion bags

Let’s say these cancel out.

33 silver * 25 ectos = 8.25 gold

• You get 7 gold (after the 15% trading post tax)
• 1.25 gold vanishes from the economy never to be seen again

Fewer coins in circulation causes deflation. If there is inflation, it’s coming from elsewhere like 2 gold per day for doing dailies.

Ecto prices would almost certainly rise without AB in its current form, remember when ectos were over 50 silver each?

http://www.gw2shinies.com/item/19721

Two things happened to bring them down:

• Someone posted about AB on the forums, so people knew about the multi-map and more people started to do it, increasing supply and lowering prices
• Some people horded ectos thinking AB was going to be nerfed with the summer update. When it wasn’t, people unloaded their ectos leading to a sudden shock to the supply

But the underlying uses of them haven’t gone down. So if AB gets nerfed, ecto prices will go back up, probably to 50 silver or higher over a couple weeks. That is subjectively either a good or a bad thing depending on who you ask, my entire point.

If you’re creating an item, whether it’s coin or worth coin, you’re causing inflation. People are making money from selling stuff to other people, but they’re still getting money much faster than they otherwise would be. That’s why multimapping is so popular. It’s not popular because ZOMG AB is the most fascinating event in all of Guild Wars 2. AB is the most profitable event in all of Guild Wars 2. Inflation or not that actually represents a problem. It’s not just more profitable but MUCH more profitable. If it wasn’t threads like this probably wouldn’t exist.

When people get large amounts of money from getting ten times the reward they would normally get, I don’t see how anyone can not expect that to affect the economy.

And since this is now very tangential to the topic at hand I’m going to have to leave it here, because I can’t afford more infractions.

Well , i think you don’t understand how Economics work . First , You need understand about " Raw Gold " , " Raw Gold " is a kind of gold you received directly from Game System like : Open Chest ( few silver ) , Daily Complete ( 2 gold ) , Do TEQ ( 1 gold ) , sell item direct to NPC … This is a kind of gold which is added to Economics System and cause inflation .
Trade between player and player is just moving gold from other to other and Hey ! Tax is the most nice thing which is invented by human …. That’s how gold remove from Game .
The last time i check in AB multi map : IT’s just generate item which sell on TP for gold .
So , basically . If you want inflate Economics system i suggest you sell everything you received when playing game to NPC : Material , Ectos , Green Blue Yellow Item even ascended and legendary item ……Sell everything

People are so caught up with what how we can multimap, that they forget to ask.. should we multimap?

I’m staying out of it cause I suspect you got interdimensional-rift-cancer every time you flit from one AB reality to another.

I’m just here to marvel at the outstanding individuals who still manage to convince themselves that AB multi is an “exploit” that needs to be fixed because they are either too “intelligent” to do it without being kicked from squads, jelly champ/SW farmers, or overconcerned people who don’t know what inflation means though they use that word all the time.

Blipp.5206:

@hornswroggle +1 I also see it as an exploit and please don’t pretend it does not hurt the economy. A single looting of the chests is enough reward for putting the effort of completing a meta event. Looting multiple times those chests -is- an exploit despite many sugar coating it and saying it isn’t. The way I see it you should put time and effort for the loot and reward you get. I dont think anyone should be rewarded with so much rewards for simply forming a squad and jumping across several maps. This multiloot thing needs to end, imo.

Can you people please explain to me HOW it hurts the economy? I mean I’ve seen you and many other posters keep going “It hurts the economy” – but HOW? Can you be a bit more specific?

Because the way I see it is this:

AB Multimap does not give you straight-out GOLD rewards – which means it rewards you in two other ways:
-Account bound stuff – which is account bound and thus has no impact on the economy
-Materials and Rares that are worth money.

Now those materials and rares are worthless by themselves and you need to sell them on the TP in order to get your money out of them. Every time you do that the TP tax that’s taken means gold is being taken away from the game which in turn decreases inflation.

So let’s sum it up:
By forcing people to sell their stuff via the TP in order to get their monetary value out of it inflation is decreased. By generating rares ( which in turn give ectos) and materials not only is it decreasing inflation ( see TP stuff before) but also lowering the prices for all players on these specific items.

Explain to me now how this is bad.

Vayne.8563:

Any change to the meta in AB is going to come with collateral damage. Some people will be unhappy and some of those will leave. Probably not as many as threaten to leave.

On the other hand, it’ll mean more people doing other metas, like TD and VB, which would make some of us happier and, in my opinion, would be worth it in the long run.

The AB meta is something that’s been going on for too long. It really doesn’t help the game as a whole. It helps the types of people that can farm the same event over and over again because it’s profitable. I submit that’s not a majority of the playerbase.

As long the AB meta pulls people from other areas of the game, it’s a problem that needs addressing in my opinion.

Just because people do AB doesn’t mean they’ll do VB or TD. The metas are different. And the TD meta isn’t even interfering with the AB one time-wise.

Also – it “pulls people” for what? 30-40 minutes?
The same statement about “it’s hurting the game because it pulls people from the rest of the game” can be made about anything you choose to dislike.

Vayne.8563:

Hesacon.8735:

hornswroggle.8023:

No.

AB Multilooting is an exploit and it subjectively hurts the economy, because it damages the prices of all tradable loot in the game. It doesnt work in DS for a reason and so it should here.

Fixed.

I’m not sure how it’s subjective. It’s a form of inflation. If you can increase rewards to the point where they’re so profitable that people are threatening to leave if it’s fixed, something is wrong.

No aspect of the game should be so profitable that everything else pales in comparison, particularly something that’s 15 minutes long than almost anyone can do.

When you pour gold/loot into the system, you get inflation, which is objectively bad for the economy.

It forces people to play stuff like the AB multimeta if they want to afford things, because a bunch of people who do it can afford to pay more, and prices go up for everyone…but not everyone does it or wants to do it.

There’s nothing subjective about it.

Do you understand inflation at all? Read what I wrote above.

There is a SET finite amount of gold in this game that is at any moment in time distributed among the players. Inflation IS NOT GENERATED when materials are used as rewards because exchanging those materials with another player takes gold out of the game through the TP.

Inflation is generated when solid gold is added to the game out of thin air – see dungeons.

What you are trying to describe is that it increases the gap between “farmers” and “non-farmers” -but that’s not inflation.
The purchasing power of gold INCREASES every time an AB multi-map finishes – because at the end of it – when people sell everything – there is LESS GOLD IN THE GAME than there was before the AB-multimap. So each gold is now worth a little bit more – since there is LESS OF IT.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Hesacon.8735:

hornswroggle.8023:

No.

AB Multilooting is an exploit and it subjectively hurts the economy, because it damages the prices of all tradable loot in the game. It doesnt work in DS for a reason and so it should here.

Fixed.

I’m not sure how it’s subjective. It’s a form of inflation. If you can increase rewards to the point where they’re so profitable that people are threatening to leave if it’s fixed, something is wrong.

No aspect of the game should be so profitable that everything else pales in comparison, particularly something that’s 15 minutes long than almost anyone can do.

When you pour gold/loot into the system, you get inflation, which is objectively bad for the economy.

It forces people to play stuff like the AB multimeta if they want to afford things, because a bunch of people who do it can afford to pay more, and prices go up for everyone…but not everyone does it or wants to do it.

There’s nothing subjective about it.

Do you understand inflation at all? Read what I wrote above.

There is a SET finite amount of gold in this game that is at any moment in time distributed among the players. Inflation IS NOT GENERATED when materials are used as rewards because exchanging those materials with another player takes gold out of the game through the TP.

Inflation is generated when solid gold is added to the game out of thin air – see dungeons.

What you are trying to describe is that it increases the gap between “farmers” and “non-farmers” -but that’s not inflation.
The purchasing power of gold INCREASES every time an AB multi-map finishes – because at the end of it – when people sell everything – there is LESS GOLD IN THE GAME than there was before the AB-multimap. So each gold is now worth a little bit more – since there is LESS OF IT.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Nah , Calm down my friend because " Hater gonna hate " so don’t waste more time explain for them . Anet know what are they doing and what are we doing . And i could say Anet done their job very good this times . I think they should increase 2 rare items/ chest so we can see the price of gem back to 60-80g/400 again :kappa:

wavyfish.8430:

I’m just here to marvel at the outstanding individuals who still manage to convince themselves that AB multi is an “exploit” that needs to be fixed because they are either too “intelligent” to do it without being kicked from squads, jelly champ/SW farmers, or overconcerned people who don’t know what inflation means though they use that word all the time.

It perfectly matches the definition of exploit, unless you can explain why a developer would create rewards for only this one event that were intended to be looted multiple times. Does it not stand to reason that they would simply have increased the rewards for this event rather than intentionally create the multimap scenario where players join trains to switch maps and loot as quickly as they can?

That does not indicate that it needs to be fixed. Ultimately, that is up to ANet. But if you’d like to know why it should be fixed, forget about “inflation” and just answer this question: Is it generally good design to provide vastly more loot for one event than other, similar events? If you know the answer (and you do!) , then you know why this doesn’t work in the long run and why AB multi should be (and likely will be) fixed at some point.

Vayne.8563:

On the other hand, it’ll mean more people doing other metas, like TD and VB, which would make some of us happier and, in my opinion, would be worth it in the long run.

That’s not gonna happen. People do AB for the loot, they don’t do it because they enjoy HoT metas. If AB gets nerfed they’ll just move onto the next most profitable thing which is probably SW right now or even Bloodstone Fen.

As long the AB meta pulls people from other areas of the game, it’s a problem that needs addressing in my opinion.

Many things pull people from other areas of the game, not sure why you think this is a problem. Every time a new chapter of LS comes out people rush to it, it pulls people from the game to a specific area so it’s bad?

You have to understand, the people that specifically grind AB won’t suddenly go do VB if it’s nerfed just like people that login just for LS3 won’t suddenly go do VB when LS is unavailable. They MIGHT do it but it’s overly optimistic to expect even half of them to do such a thing.

The reason it should get fixed is very simple:

• People who did not participate in an event are getting rewards from it.

No one can participate at the same time in all those instances, so those who jump to another instance are getting rewards they didn’t earn.
If you want to enter into how good or bad those rewards are that’s an entirely different matter.
Someone who did not participate in something should not be rewarded as if they did.

That also goes for any other content. For example:

• In silverwastes, keys should be removed, replaced by just shovels. And shovels earned by playing as event rewards from defendign and retaking forts, for keeping the skritt tunnels open and the second waypoint ready, and from bonus map rewards. Then dig spots should appear as the forts progress tying rewards to events.
• In dungeons and fractals, that should get their rewards scaled based on personal participation, and when players get kicked, instead being sent outside the instance, they should end up in a copy of the instance, while keeping their own participation, so they can still get friends and guildies to finish the content instead losing all progress, but those friends won’t get as rewarded because they entered late., preventing this being used to ‘split’ instances on purpose to sell the rewards at the chest, and discouraging kicking players to sell the rewards, and encuraging getting players to run for the start when selling paths like when selling mission rushes in GW1 so path sellers would be more likely to teach those paths, since no one would buy a run if it isn’t from the start as they won’t be getting rewards and achievements.
• In world bosses, chest should give a daily Hero Choice bag to everyone who get 100% participation by participating enough during the event and pre-events. That bag should give a choice between things like rare weapon bags, stacks of materials like cloth and leather, crests, rare materials and the like. Thus rewarding more those that participate in the entire event over those that arrive to press 1.

And all those things should happen while also makng sure people keep their participation and rewards even if they disonnect. So if you were in an AB that just finished and disconnect, you can still talk with a tarnished exalted to enter the treasure chambers and open the chests you earned for the rest of the day on any map, even if the map in which you finished doesn’t even exist anymore.

MithranArkanere.8957:

The reason it should get fixed is very simple:

• People who did not participate in an event are getting rewards from it.

No one can participate at the same time in all those instances, so those who jump to another instance are getting rewards they didn’t earn.
If you want to enter into how good or bad those rewards are that’s an entirely different matter.
Someone who did not participate in something should not be rewarded as if they did.

That also goes for any other content. For example:

• In silverwastes, keys should be removed, replaced by just shovels. And shovels earned by playing as event rewards from defendign and retaking forts, for keeping the skritt tunnels open and the second waypoint ready, and from bonus map rewards. Then dig spots should appear as the forts progress tying rewards to events.
• In dungeons and fractals, that should get their rewards scaled based on personal participation, and when players get kicked, instead being sent outside the instance, they should end up in a copy of the instance, while keeping their own participation, so they can still get friends and guildies to finish the content instead losing all progress, but those friends won’t get as rewarded because they entered late., preventing this being used to ‘split’ instances on purpose to sell the rewards at the chest, and discouraging kicking players to sell the rewards, and encuraging getting players to run for the start when selling paths like when selling mission rushes in GW1 so path sellers would be more likely to teach those paths, since no one would buy a run if it isn’t from the start as they won’t be getting rewards and achievements.
• In world bosses, chest should give a daily Hero Choice bag to everyone who get 100% participation by participating enough during the event and pre-events. That bag should give a choice between things like rare weapon bags, stacks of materials like cloth and leather, crests, rare materials and the like. Thus rewarding more those that participate in the entire event over those that arrive to press 1.

And all those things should happen while also makng sure people keep their participation and rewards even if they disonnect. So if you were in an AB that just finished and disconnect, you can still talk with a tarnished exalted to enter the treasure chambers and open the chests you earned for the rest of the day on any map, even if the map in which you finished doesn’t even exist anymore.

Really?
I don’t participate in most of the Dragon Stand map event and still loot every chest. There is precedent for this – even in other maps.

IF Anet wanted you to get rewards based strictly on your participation it would reward you the loot at the end of the event. The fact that we have a loot system that involves chests that can be opened even if you did not do the meta clearly shows they wanted people to be able to loot even if they did not participate in the meta.

You don’t seem to realize that the EARNING of the reward is the KEY you use to open the chest. If you have that key then clearly you have earned the right to open the chest.

It’s THAT easy.

The real thing here is that you want a different system – and I get that. But the system WE HAVE clearly shows what the devs intended. If you have the key – you can open the chest.

Vayne.8563:

Any change to the meta in AB is going to come with collateral damage. Some people will be unhappy and some of those will leave. Probably not as many as threaten to leave.

On the other hand, it’ll mean more people doing other metas, like TD and VB, which would make some of us happier and, in my opinion, would be worth it in the long run.

The AB meta is something that’s been going on for too long. It really doesn’t help the game as a whole. It helps the types of people that can farm the same event over and over again because it’s profitable. I submit that’s not a majority of the playerbase.

As long the AB meta pulls people from other areas of the game, it’s a problem that needs addressing in my opinion.

no it will mean everyone will go back to silverwastes which already provides the most gold per time spent. only reason people dont do it now is because its such a boring grind. ab is actually kinda fun.but hey if people want to make ectos rare as hell again thats fine by me.

If Anet wanted people hopping maps to loot multiple finished metas, they wouldn’t have designed Dragon’s Stand explicitly to prevent that exact thing.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If Anet wanted people hopping maps to loot multiple finished metas, they wouldn’t have designed Dragon’s Stand explicitly to prevent that exact thing.

True, but isn’t it interesting how they already have code to prevent multi mapping (in the form of DS) but have not implemented that in AB?

I’m ambivalent about the topic, but if Anet felt it was a major disruption to the economy, they should have acted by now.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If Anet wanted people hopping maps to loot multiple finished metas, they wouldn’t have designed Dragon’s Stand explicitly to prevent that exact thing.

But you can still loot the entire DS without doing ONE event to help the map.

If they wanted you to get rewards ONLY for participating then this would not be possible – and right now it is – in DS, TD, AB and VB. You can open chests regardless of any participation in the events.

Harper.4173:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If Anet wanted people hopping maps to loot multiple finished metas, they wouldn’t have designed Dragon’s Stand explicitly to prevent that exact thing.

But you can still loot the entire DS without doing ONE event to help the map.

If they wanted you to get rewards ONLY for participating then this would not be possible – and right now it is – in DS, TD, AB and VB. You can open chests regardless of any participation in the events.

You can’t loot the end DS chest without participating.

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If Anet wanted people hopping maps to loot multiple finished metas, they wouldn’t have designed Dragon’s Stand explicitly to prevent that exact thing.

But you can still loot the entire DS without doing ONE event to help the map.

If they wanted you to get rewards ONLY for participating then this would not be possible – and right now it is – in DS, TD, AB and VB. You can open chests regardless of any participation in the events.

You can’t loot the end DS chest without participating.

Yes – and you don’t get the End of Tarir event loot if you’re not participating in said event.

The only difference is that the DS chest is in one place and the Tarir final chest is a pop-up. But they’re basically the same thing.

The bulk of the loot in BOTH cases comes from the other chests that work with a key system.

You can open chests in Tarir just like you can open Noxious Pods in DS – without participating in the event itself.

That’s what I’m referring to – you can loot the map without getting the event reward.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If Anet wanted people hopping maps to loot multiple finished metas, they wouldn’t have designed Dragon’s Stand explicitly to prevent that exact thing.

But you can still loot the entire DS without doing ONE event to help the map.

If they wanted you to get rewards ONLY for participating then this would not be possible – and right now it is – in DS, TD, AB and VB. You can open chests regardless of any participation in the events.

You can’t loot the end DS chest without participating.

Yes – and you don’t get the End of Tarir event loot if you’re not participating in said event.

The only difference is that the DS chest is in one place and the Tarir final chest is a pop-up. But they’re basically the same thing.

The bulk of the loot in BOTH cases comes from the other chests that work with a key system.

You can open chests in Tarir just like you can open Noxious Pods in DS – without participating in the event itself.

That’s what I’m referring to – you can loot the map without getting the event reward.

Actually I believe you do get the end of Tarir chest even if you haven’t participated, as long as the map completes the meta. This is because the end of tarir chest is just one of the big chests that you can open, not a special unique chest.

No you don’t. You get that chest if you managed to tag the octovine event. Otherwise you get nothing.
There is a chest that is a rewarded specifically for it. If you don’t do the event you don’t get said chest. I know this for a fact since I’ve done numerous maps that I haven’t done the event on.

The “end of Tarir chest” is a pop-up next to your minimap on the right hand side of the screen. It rewards keys, currency, rares? i don’t remember and certainly a lot of XP.

Harper.4173:

No you don’t. You get that chest if you managed to tag the octovine event. Otherwise you get nothing.
There is a chest that is a rewarded specifically for it. If you don’t do the event you don’t get said chest. I know this for a fact since I’ve done numerous maps that I haven’t done the event on.

The “end of Tarir chest” is a pop-up next to your minimap on the right hand side of the screen. It rewards keys, currency, rares? i don’t remember and certainly a lot of XP.

Nope, not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the chest that awards the extra 12 keys and it comes in one of the large circular chests. You can’t get that reward from DS unless you’ve done the meta. You can get that reward from the large chests underground, because unlike DS it doesn’t have a stand alone chest in the open world.

Obviously if you don’t participate in events you don’t get the chests over your minimaps. But that has nothing to do with the chests I’m talking about.

AliamRationem.5172:

That does not indicate that it needs to be fixed. Ultimately, that is up to ANet. But if you’d like to know why it should be fixed, forget about “inflation” and just answer this question: Is it generally good design to provide vastly more loot for one event than other, similar events? If you know the answer (and you do!) , then you know why this doesn’t work in the long run and why AB multi should be (and likely will be) fixed at some point.

You seem to have some kind of tunnel vision about AB. “vastly more loot” =/= AB must be fixed. What I know is, other events are too UNrewarding, which is a problem people have been talking about since HoT came out and Anet themselves tried to fix. So, the answer is not that “AB multi should be fixed,” it’s that rewards should be balanced across the board or at least diversified enough for different types of activities that there are incentives to do different things.

“In the long run.” AB multiloot has not been detrimental to the economy at all. Ecto has stabilized for a while at ~33-35 s, which was the price before rumours of leg armour drove it up to~60s. The elder wood price drop coincided with the release of BF, and has little to do with AB. Prices of other mats have also remained stable. You can imagine without AB, leather prices would most likely have skyrocketed by now. Lower prices for crafting is much better to retain new players, I hope I don’t have to explain that to you.

AB multiloot is friendly to people without a ton of playtime, is not boring like SW, and requires cooperation and coordination among a large number of players. That’s why it’s so popular and why Anet haven’t and won’t nerf it until they want to hard pull population to where they want us to go.

If the AB multioot level of reward is what is intended for successfully completing a meta event then rewards for AB, and other major events, should be buffed accordingly and the multiloot should go away. If that many chests, etc, are what is intended then just put them into the post event loot phase and close off the cheap, exploitish (IMO) multiloot system.

wavyfish.8430:

AB multiloot is friendly to people without a ton of playtime, is not boring like SW, and requires cooperation and coordination among a large number of players. That’s why it’s so popular

Its popular because of the reward rate compared to other activities.

I’m not sure that repeated taxiing qualifies as not boring, but to each their own. I suppose that for some players the act of switching characters or clicking on “join” in the squad menu might qualify as exciting.

ashen, just admit it, you hate AB for no good reason, you just want it to go away even though no one is forcing you to do it and you never even have to go to Aurin Basic the map if you don’t want to. I don’t know why you want to micromanage and judge how other people play the game but by all means keep on harping on it.

for an AB map to succeed you need at the minimum four lanes to work in cooperation with each other, you need to explain mechanics to new players, you have differentiation of tasks (armours/ground, different people/different times dealing with mobs) and it depends on map population and skill how it will go. And then you have the logistics of managing a multimap squad with volunteer commanders, lieuts, and sometimes anchors. There is a time gate, you have to finish your tasks and loot in half and hour, which can be a challenge and also a comfortable slice of time to game and then get on with their real life for a lot of people. A well executed run brings me great satisfaction, and I know quite a few people who help hosts these and not loot themselves but try and jump around to help all maps succeed.

SW is… event farm either way and then… just… running… around… in circles….for hours? I’m sorry, even if it’s the most lucrative thing ever I’m not touching it with a ten foot pole.

Hey, no problem! If it’s good for AB, then it’s good for all the other boss meta events, too.

ANet, please ensure that the other HoT maps all provide a proper ratio of effort/coordination to rewards. So AB remains as it is, but the TD, DS, and VB meta events all provide greater base rewards than AB multimap.

For all of the reasons that AB multimap is problem-free, we should support this change.

wavyfish.8430:

ashen, just admit it, you hate AB for no good reason,

I don’t Hate AB. I also don’t hate the multilooting that I believe is possibly an exploit. (until Anet makes an official comment there is no definitive answer)

you just want it to go away even though no one is forcing you to do it and you never even have to go to Aurin Basic the map if you don’t want to. I don’t know why you want to micromanage and judge how other people play the game but by all means keep on harping on it.

I don’t want to micromanage, etc other players. I also have not harped on the subject. This is twice now, in a single post, that you have implied that you can read my mind. I can assure you that you are mistaken.

for an AB map to succeed you need at the minimum four lanes to work in cooperation with each other, you need to explain mechanics to new players, you have differentiation of tasks (armours/ground, different people/different times dealing with mobs) and it depends on map population and skill how it will go. And then you have the logistics of managing a multimap squad with volunteer commanders, lieuts, and sometimes anchors. There is a time gate, you have to finish your tasks and loot in half and hour, which can be a challenge and also a comfortable slice of time to game and then get on with their real life for a lot of people. A well executed run brings me great satisfaction, and I know quite a few people who help hosts these and not loot themselves but try and jump around to help all maps succeed.

None of what you describe there is the multiloot mechanism. Multiloot consists of repeated opening chests and transferring maps and/or changing characters. What is exciting about clicking on the join button to change maps or the F button to open chests repeatedly?

SW is… event farm either way and then… just… running… around… in circles….for hours? I’m sorry, even if it’s the most lucrative thing ever I’m not touching it with a ten foot pole.

Responses in italics above.

Vayne.8563:

Any change to the meta in AB is going to come with collateral damage. Some people will be unhappy and some of those will leave. Probably not as many as threaten to leave.

On the other hand, it’ll mean more people doing other metas, like TD and VB, which would make some of us happier and, in my opinion, would be worth it in the long run.

The AB meta is something that’s been going on for too long. It really doesn’t help the game as a whole. It helps the types of people that can farm the same event over and over again because it’s profitable. I submit that’s not a majority of the playerbase.

As long the AB meta pulls people from other areas of the game, it’s a problem that needs addressing in my opinion.

Not really. You can do the TD and VB meta while the AB meta is not active. Besides, I seen tons of people playing TD and VB meta just yesterday.

Ashen.2907:

I don’t Hate AB. I also don’t hate the multilooting that I believe is possibly an exploit. (until Anet makes an official comment there is no definitive answer)…..
I don’t want to micromanage, etc other players…

lol ok. sure. whatever you say. then why are you posting in this thread? Why do you care that other people do what you find a) exploitative and b) not “exciting”?

Ashen.2907:

None of what you describe there is the multiloot mechanism. Multiloot consists of repeated opening chests and transferring maps and/or changing characters. What is exciting about clicking on the join button to change maps or the F button to open chests repeatedly?

Without what I described, there is no multiloot. If no one tries hard at succeeding at the meta quickly and well, if no one organizes squads, do you think there will be maps to join, chests to click F on? Players made creative use of existing mechanics for fun and profit… so again I say, why do you care that other people do things you don’t find exciting?