Guild Wars 2

This is an idea which could reduce the grindiness of HoT masteries. If you don’t think they’re grindy, don’t post.

One of the reasons it’s hard to get masteries is because you’re locked out, especially early on (gliding becomes required very early in VB). You have to earn those XP.

But, masteries are account-wide, which means they really deserve to have a high threshold of XP. If they were character-based, the XP requirement could be a lot lower.

The problem with that is that masteries by their nature deserve to be account-wide. If not, then much of their value is lost.

Why not split the difference? Allow each character to get his masteries at 1/3 of the total (or 1/4). But, give it to the rest of the account once the original XP requirement has been met, across the whole account.

The reason I think this fits the lore is the Pact. The Pact is three orders. In order to get several of the collections and achievements, you have to do them once on each of three characters (one in each order).

This idea would be basically the same thing, although as written, it doesn’t require 3 characters from the three orders.

I disagree because:

• They’re not grindy.
• I do not want character-based mastery grind ever. This will be much more of a nuisance.

runeblade.7514:

I disagree because:

• They’re not grindy.
• I do not want character-based mastery grind ever. This will be much more of a nuisance.

I suppose you missed the part where the OP said that if you don’t believe them to be grindy, then don’t post.

But in all seriousness…I guess it’s subjective. But everyone’s opinion is valid. Why not expand upon your reasons for finding or not finding an aspect of the game grindy instead of making simple statements? That will surely forward the discussion.

Moyayuki.3619:

runeblade.7514:

I disagree because:

• They’re not grindy.
• I do not want character-based mastery grind ever. This will be much more of a nuisance.

I suppose you missed the part where the OP said that if you don’t believe them to be grindy, then don’t post.

Everyone is allowed to post though. One poster cannot determine who can or cannot post in a thread even if they were the one to create it.

Daddicus.6128:

If you don’t think they’re grindy, don’t post.

Hmmmm…I think I can translate this.

Daddicus.6128:

If you disagree with my position then go away, because I am unable to support it in a reasonable debate.

Fixed.

The trick about masteries is that they were never a grind when it came to playing through the game. They were however balanced on the assumption that the player would actually play through all the content. If you legitimately explore the maps and participate in the content, you’ll find that most achievements are naturally obtained, along with the mastery points and experience required to unlock your masteries as you need them. Adventures are however a huge chunk of experience, and can easily make the difference between a casual experience and a grind. After the nerf for example, unlocking one of the first tier masteries (500k exp) is as simple as doing 2 adventures for the first time.

What they do need to do however is force a specific mastery path at the start, so that players don’t unlock the useless stuff first, only to find that they’re stuck. The mastery level should also be dropped as it’ll only turn out like achievement points and people get hung up on it as they see it as a level cap, turning a casual experience into an impossible task.

There’s no grind. There’s only goals to work towards that aren’t required to play the game.

It’s fantastic and gives the same tons of replay value.

@OP
From a game design perspective, which masteries would you make account bound vs soul bound? Also, the mastery points will need to be overhauled too: either way, way more sources of MPs be added or some need to become endlessly repeatable.

Personally I rather they not use the system you’re suggesting because in essence you’re replacing a one-time XP “grind” with a repeated XP “grind”… plus they’ll have to pull resources from other areas to change the MP system. The current system is daunting in the beginning, but is less punishing in the long term.

Daddicus.6128:

This is an idea which could reduce the grindiness of HoT masteries. If you don’t think they’re grindy, don’t post.

Wow. Two sentences in and already showing your bias. I like your honesty.

I don’t think the masteries are grindy – BUT I think your idea would make them so. I used my mesmer to do most of my masteries because he provided me with good mobility, stealth and a portal that provided insurance where I needed it.

If I had to complete the masteries your way (as I understand it) it would have been tedious, unenjoyable and very, very, very grindy.

EDIT: Added the clarification “(as I understand it)”. It’s possible I don’t understand your meaning, but as it reads I think you’re trying to provide a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Do a few rounds of DS with food, crystals and other boosters. The XP flows in remarkably fast, even on the last tiers of the masteries.

Even if they originally were a grind, they’re no longer a grind because experience has been increased, even just in kills. It took a handful of dynamic events to get your gliding, particularly if you were smart enough to use buffs.

People who can’t be bothered eating some food, or using a cheap potion for utility or using one of their birthday or celebration boosters, guild boosters, banners, and if you have an XP boost (which you can buy with gold anyway) it’s ridiculously fast. There’s fireworks too which are very cheap and it all stacks.

So I’m not sure why anyone thinks this is an issue anymore.

What the OP is really saying is let me level faster from 1-80.

Every other MMO I know of raises the level cap before you can get into stuff. That’s the only way expansions last at all. Now the OP is trying to make it so the expansion moves faster, and we have to do less to “level”.

It just doesn’t work that way.

Healix.5819:

The trick about masteries is that they were never a grind when it came to playing through the game. They were however balanced on the assumption that the player would actually play through all the content.

I see what you’re saying, but it’s simply not true. There was a storyline mission early on that you could not do until you got the first mastery. Yeah, it was something like a tutorial, but then they continued the same tactic: require masteries in order to progress the storyline.

It IS grindy, and there ARE gaps.

What made me think of this idea, though, is going in with a second character (and a third). I realized that they were able to progress, unlike the first character I worked through it.

IF I had known, I might very well have run three characters through, using the XP from all three to meet the mastery requirements.

Now, that’s NOT normal for an MMO. Players generally take their best character into new content, because they know they’re going to need that character. But, in so doing, because of HoT’s gating behind masteries, we were locked out. I finally gave up; it was just too much of a grind. It was not at all fun, to me.

But, if they had allowed a slip-streamed variant like I’m proposing, people COULD play it through at their own pace. Those who wanted to run their best character through to the end could have done it, and without the grind otherwise required.

Now, what you propose (basically, doing all the content on map as you also do the storyline) works, and is probably how at least some people made it through.

But, it’s NOT normal. Not for Guild Wars 1 or 2, and probably not for any MMO. People want to see the new content in the story first and foremost.

My proposal (which admittedly needs work) would allow either mode of playing, without dumbing down the overall process.

onevstheworld.2419:

@OP
Personally I rather they not use the system you’re suggesting because in essence you’re replacing a one-time XP “grind” with a repeated XP “grind”… plus they’ll have to pull resources from other areas to change the MP system. The current system is daunting in the beginning, but is less punishing in the long term.

Not really “replacing” them. Reducing the requirements to something more closely approximating what you earn while progressing through the storyline (only, more or less).

In other words, if all I do is take my best toon through the story, the grind wouldn’t be nearly as noticeable. But, I’m giving up the ability to have my other toons use those mastery until my account earns the original amounts.

NOTE: This is JUST for XP, not MPs. However, it may be that to balance it, they have to adjust the MP piece as well.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Wow. Two sentences in and already showing your bias. I like your honesty.

I don’t think the masteries are grindy – BUT I think your idea would make them so. I used my mesmer to do most of my masteries because he provided me with good mobility, stealth and a portal that provided insurance where I needed it.

If I had to complete the masteries your way (as I understand it) it would have been tedious, unenjoyable and very, very, very grindy.

EDIT: Added the clarification “(as I understand it)”. It’s possible I don’t understand your meaning, but as it reads I think you’re trying to provide a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Do a few rounds of DS with food, crystals and other boosters. The XP flows in remarkably fast, even on the last tiers of the masteries.

My bias was intentionally shown. I have no intention of responding to any “it’s not grindy posts”, so why not say so up front? But, I didn’t make that clear, so I apologize if it caused any offense.

But, perhaps it is time for an example, because I don’t think I spoke clearly enough. All of the below is hypothetical. Also, I’m using round numbers; I can’t find a source for the exact mastery XP requirements as they progressed. I’ll be using the pronoun “I” as the player below.

This first example is how it is now.

I haven’t been in HoT yet. I have an account with Andy, Barb, and Chuck as my more interesting characters. But, Andy is top of the heap. He’s the guy I’m going to take into HoT, because I believe he’ll be the one I can perform the best with.

Further, I’ve been waiting for HoT. I want to know what happens to Mordremoth. I want to take him down, plain and simple.

So, my natural inclination is to start through the story with Andy. But, I’m almost immediately faced with a 250k mastery requirement. I remember well asking myself why on earth they stuck that in the way. But, I assumed it was some kind of tutorial process, so I wandered around until I had done enough to cross the line.

Then, I go back to the story. I get a couple more missions done, and once again I’m locked out of the story until I grind through now several hundred thousand more XP (than what the stories gave me, plus what I earned getting to the next story instance location).

That’s annoying. But, again, it’s new and I really want to know what happens next. So, I put up with it again.

So, I repeat the same thing, only with more dum-dum XP required this time.

I muddle through, but spending a smaller percent of my gaming time doing it. After all, I have other things I want to accomplish than just burn through XP.

Finally, I got through that, chose another mastery, and continue the story. Which is getting interesting, by the way.

But, of course THIS time, I spent quite a bit of time going through the missions, all the while going for the wrong mastery! They didn’t give me a heads-up: “by the way, you should choose XYZ mastery next because you’re going to need it.” So, now I not only have to earn a million XP, but I have to earn them ALL before I can continue. (This paragraph is NOT hypothetical — it’s the way it actually happened to me.)

At this point, the player running Andy through is getting very frustrated, and turns to the forums. There he learns that not only is the grind going to continue, it’s going to get MUCH worse!

It was about then that I got sick of HoT and personally gave up. It wasn’t worth it.

But, now lets see the new process.

Andy does the same thing through the first mastery, or maybe two. But, only Andy has earned these masteries, and he earned them in 1/3 of the time (XP). Barb and Chuck can’t use the actual mastery, because the account hasn’t earned enough XP yet.

But, Barb and Chuck, each being in a different order from Andy and each other (hey, this player likes completeness), they earn their own mastery usages. And, by the time they get to the same mission where Andy is, the whole account has earned the right to use the same mastery (or masteries).

Hopefully I’ve explained the idea enough to make things clearer. (I have a tendency to speak too much and say too little — maybe I should have been a politician!) But, I think it’s true both that this is less grindy. It cannot be more grindy, because you still have to earn the exact same totals for the account.

The only real difference is that one or two characters can progress through the story at their own pace, not blocked (as much) by artificial barriers to continuation. And, if the player really wants the masteries account-wide, he has to EARN them account-wide (or, more accurately, on three toons rather than one).

The only extra grind I see is for players who only have one toon they play. But, the grind they have to endure is exactly the same, so it’s not a change. They’re just given the opportunity to play more than one character while earning those XP.

NOTE: They COULD have done the same thing themselves: march three toons through HoT, each progressing to the same stopping-points. But, only when the third toon gets to that position will the account earn the actual mastery to move forward. Hence the partial-earning that my idea allows.

I should point out that I’m actually doing a version of this now. I have four toons going into VB just wandering about doing random stuff, plus the storyline missions. But, the XP they’re earning is advancing the track for my top toon, who happens to be in TD doing more mission steps.

I don’t LIKE it, because I have to wait with my advanced toon for the other two to do more work, but that’s a heck of a lot better than having to do it all on my wonder-toon.

The OP’s argument is almost entirely based off the first mastery: it’s really horrid to play in the new zones without some form of gliding and you can only earn XP for the first point of gliding by playing in the new zones. I have to agree — I hated that. (On the other hand, unlike the OP, I experimented with different builds until I could walk more than 10 feet without dying to ankle biters.)

I still think ANet should have made the first 30% or more of the zone safer and more easily accessible without gliding. Since they didn’t, I’d be perfectly fine with ANet granting the first point of gliding to everyone who steps into the new zone.

The rest … I only once had more XP than mastery points in the new zones; I never felt any pressure to grind (although a lot of the content was fairly dull without certain masteries).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The OP’s argument is almost entirely based off the first mastery.

Incorrect. When I gave up trying for 3 months, the reason was yet another mastery needed (Nuhoch or exalted something or other). It happens throughout the process, at least as far as I’ve gotten so far. Who knows? Maybe I’ve hit the last one and just don’t know it. But, it’s awfully frustrating to just be getting into the story again and have to drop back to more random monster killing.

Daddicus.6128:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Wow. Two sentences in and already showing your bias. I like your honesty.

I don’t think the masteries are grindy – BUT I think your idea would make them so. I used my mesmer to do most of my masteries because he provided me with good mobility, stealth and a portal that provided insurance where I needed it.

If I had to complete the masteries your way (as I understand it) it would have been tedious, unenjoyable and very, very, very grindy.

EDIT: Added the clarification “(as I understand it)”. It’s possible I don’t understand your meaning, but as it reads I think you’re trying to provide a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Do a few rounds of DS with food, crystals and other boosters. The XP flows in remarkably fast, even on the last tiers of the masteries.

My bias was intentionally shown. I have no intention of responding to any “it’s not grindy posts”, so why not say so up front? But, I didn’t make that clear, so I apologize if it caused any offense.

But, perhaps it is time for an example, because I don’t think I spoke clearly enough. All of the below is hypothetical. Also, I’m using round numbers; I can’t find a source for the exact mastery XP requirements as they progressed. I’ll be using the pronoun “I” as the player below.

This first example is how it is now.

I haven’t been in HoT yet. I have an account with Andy, Barb, and Chuck as my more interesting characters. But, Andy is top of the heap. He’s the guy I’m going to take into HoT, because I believe he’ll be the one I can perform the best with.

Further, I’ve been waiting for HoT. I want to know what happens to Mordremoth. I want to take him down, plain and simple.

So, my natural inclination is to start through the story with Andy. But, I’m almost immediately faced with a 250k mastery requirement. I remember well asking myself why on earth they stuck that in the way. But, I assumed it was some kind of tutorial process, so I wandered around until I had done enough to cross the line.

Then, I go back to the story. I get a couple more missions done, and once again I’m locked out of the story until I grind through now several hundred thousand more XP (than what the stories gave me, plus what I earned getting to the next story instance location).

That’s annoying. But, again, it’s new and I really want to know what happens next. So, I put up with it again.

So, I repeat the same thing, only with more dum-dum XP required this time.

I muddle through, but spending a smaller percent of my gaming time doing it. After all, I have other things I want to accomplish than just burn through XP.

Finally, I got through that, chose another mastery, and continue the story. Which is getting interesting, by the way.

But, of course THIS time, I spent quite a bit of time going through the missions, all the while going for the wrong mastery! They didn’t give me a heads-up: “by the way, you should choose XYZ mastery next because you’re going to need it.” So, now I not only have to earn a million XP, but I have to earn them ALL before I can continue. (This paragraph is NOT hypothetical — it’s the way it actually happened to me.)

At this point, the player running Andy through is getting very frustrated, and turns to the forums. There he learns that not only is the grind going to continue, it’s going to get MUCH worse!

It was about then that I got sick of HoT and personally gave up. It wasn’t worth it.

But, now lets see the new process.

Andy does the same thing through the first mastery, or maybe two. But, only Andy has earned these masteries, and he earned them in 1/3 of the time (XP). Barb and Chuck can’t use the actual mastery, because the account hasn’t earned enough XP yet.

But, Barb and Chuck, each being in a different order from Andy and each other (hey, this player likes completeness), they earn their own mastery usages. And, by the time they get to the same mission where Andy is, the whole account has earned the right to use the same mastery (or masteries).

Hopefully I’ve explained the idea enough to make things clearer. (I have a tendency to speak too much and say too little — maybe I should have been a politician!) But, I think it’s true both that this is less grindy. It cannot be more grindy, because you still have to earn the exact same totals for the account.

The only real difference is that one or two characters can progress through the story at their own pace, not blocked (as much) by artificial barriers to continuation. And, if the player really wants the masteries account-wide, he has to EARN them account-wide (or, more accurately, on three toons rather than one).

The only extra grind I see is for players who only have one toon they play. But, the grind they have to endure is exactly the same, so it’s not a change. They’re just given the opportunity to play more than one character while earning those XP.

NOTE: They COULD have done the same thing themselves: march three toons through HoT, each progressing to the same stopping-points. But, only when the third toon gets to that position will the account earn the actual mastery to move forward. Hence the partial-earning that my idea allows.

While you bring up some valid criticisms, I’m not sure how “normal” it is to attempt to play through the storyline from start to finish prior to exploring any of the jungle maps.

I signed up for GW2 several months after HoT released, so maybe I don’t get how this game is supposed to be played. But I was more interested in exploring the maps and unlocking my elite spec and masteries than pushing for the end of the storyline. When I completed the storyline, I had already met the mastery requirements. In fact, I wouldn’t have even realized this was an issue based on my experience.

Ah, I see the problem….

AliamRationem.5172:

I want to know what happens to Mordremoth. I want to take him down, plain and simple.

I understand your frustration now. You care about the story. I’m just there to get those sweet, sweet achievements while the PACT and Big M duke it out.

I would much rather want a system like in diablo 3 …. i had fun having a little pve adventure in hot… but as soon as youve maxed out all masterys youre “done” with the content. Sadly.

Bring us Tyragon Levels (hinthint).

Daddicus.6128:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The OP’s argument is almost entirely based off the first mastery.

Incorrect. When I gave up trying for 3 months, the reason was yet another mastery needed (Nuhoch or exalted something or other). It happens throughout the process, at least as far as I’ve gotten so far. Who knows? Maybe I’ve hit the last one and just don’t know it. But, it’s awfully frustrating to just be getting into the story again and have to drop back to more random monster killing.

Well aren’t you just playing it wrong?
Not just you but probably hundreds of people. If you “just” do story or “just” kill monsters or “just” use one toon, or focus in fact on any one particular thing, I can imagine at various points that you won’t have enough mastery xp, enough mastery points, enough hero points, enough waypoints, enough map completion.

I don’t play all that focused so to me if I’ve run out of mastery xp which you’d see as an issue, I’d just be like “meh.. I’ll have to do some events on my mesmer” and if that doesn’t get me enough (say I was finding the events underwhelming) then next time I am in VB on my ele, I’ll make a point of doing some extra events to get some of the missing mastery xp and THEN when it’s done I’ll go back to my main and start the next thing.

I don’t believe you should be rushing unless you’ve got the time to spend 12+ hours a day on the game. When I had that time I kitten skippy ran to the end with everyone and did everything. Now.. much more relaxed and don’t see gaps as stumbling blocks, just opportunities to go do something else or bring in another toon or three.

I’ve not got everything maxed quite yet, not worried about it, working on it.

Daddicus.6128:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The OP’s argument is almost entirely based off the first mastery.

Incorrect. When I gave up trying for 3 months, the reason was yet another mastery needed (Nuhoch or exalted something or other). It happens throughout the process, at least as far as I’ve gotten so far. Who knows? Maybe I’ve hit the last one and just don’t know it. But, it’s awfully frustrating to just be getting into the story again and have to drop back to more random monster killing.

Exalted is needed. I reached it on day two. It’s the last one needed for the story. It’s one mastery point. I’m not sure how you can spend three months on it. If I played 15 minutes a day, I could probably have gotten it in one month.

Either you’re exaggerating or you’re just really bad at the game, but there’s no way in hell you should take 3 months to get gliding, mushroom jumping, updraft use and exalted law trained.

I’m not even sure how it’s possible.

Razor.9872:

Daddicus.6128:

If you don’t think they’re grindy, don’t post.

Hmmmm…I think I can translate this.

Daddicus.6128:

If you disagree with my position then go away, because I am unable to support it in a reasonable debate.

Fixed.

This

If you don’t want a discussion you shouldn’t post in a forum.

Daddicus.6128:

I see what you’re saying, but it’s simply not true. There was a storyline mission early on that you could not do until you got the first mastery. Yeah, it was something like a tutorial, but then they continued the same tactic: require masteries in order to progress the storyline.

It IS grindy, and there ARE gaps.

From what I can see, your problem seem to be about the storyline needing masteries than the grindiness of the masteries themselves.

The problem is that grind is subjective. No matter how not grindy something is, there will always be some people complaining that it’s too grindy. And no matter how monstrously grindy something is, there will always be people saying that it’s not.

Because grind is subjective. Grind is only how frustrating and unpleasant the progression is to you. And that’s different for everybody.

I find the whole game now grindy as, masteries are just one part of a much larger nasty grind.

Daddicus.6128:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Wow. Two sentences in and already showing your bias. I like your honesty.

I don’t think the masteries are grindy – BUT I think your idea would make them so. I used my mesmer to do most of my masteries because he provided me with good mobility, stealth and a portal that provided insurance where I needed it.

If I had to complete the masteries your way (as I understand it) it would have been tedious, unenjoyable and very, very, very grindy.

EDIT: Added the clarification “(as I understand it)”. It’s possible I don’t understand your meaning, but as it reads I think you’re trying to provide a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Do a few rounds of DS with food, crystals and other boosters. The XP flows in remarkably fast, even on the last tiers of the masteries.

My bias was intentionally shown. I have no intention of responding to any “it’s not grindy posts”, so why not say so up front? But, I didn’t make that clear, so I apologize if it caused any offense.

But, perhaps it is time for an example, because I don’t think I spoke clearly enough. All of the below is hypothetical. Also, I’m using round numbers; I can’t find a source for the exact mastery XP requirements as they progressed. I’ll be using the pronoun “I” as the player below.

This first example is how it is now.

I haven’t been in HoT yet. I have an account with Andy, Barb, and Chuck as my more interesting characters. But, Andy is top of the heap. He’s the guy I’m going to take into HoT, because I believe he’ll be the one I can perform the best with.

Further, I’ve been waiting for HoT. I want to know what happens to Mordremoth. I want to take him down, plain and simple.

So, my natural inclination is to start through the story with Andy. But, I’m almost immediately faced with a 250k mastery requirement. I remember well asking myself why on earth they stuck that in the way. But, I assumed it was some kind of tutorial process, so I wandered around until I had done enough to cross the line.

Then, I go back to the story. I get a couple more missions done, and once again I’m locked out of the story until I grind through now several hundred thousand more XP (than what the stories gave me, plus what I earned getting to the next story instance location).

That’s annoying. But, again, it’s new and I really want to know what happens next. So, I put up with it again.

So, I repeat the same thing, only with more dum-dum XP required this time.

I muddle through, but spending a smaller percent of my gaming time doing it. After all, I have other things I want to accomplish than just burn through XP.

Finally, I got through that, chose another mastery, and continue the story. Which is getting interesting, by the way.

But, of course THIS time, I spent quite a bit of time going through the missions, all the while going for the wrong mastery! They didn’t give me a heads-up: “by the way, you should choose XYZ mastery next because you’re going to need it.” So, now I not only have to earn a million XP, but I have to earn them ALL before I can continue. (This paragraph is NOT hypothetical — it’s the way it actually happened to me.)

At this point, the player running Andy through is getting very frustrated, and turns to the forums. There he learns that not only is the grind going to continue, it’s going to get MUCH worse!

It was about then that I got sick of HoT and personally gave up. It wasn’t worth it.

But, now lets see the new process.

Andy does the same thing through the first mastery, or maybe two. But, only Andy has earned these masteries, and he earned them in 1/3 of the time (XP). Barb and Chuck can’t use the actual mastery, because the account hasn’t earned enough XP yet.

But, Barb and Chuck, each being in a different order from Andy and each other (hey, this player likes completeness), they earn their own mastery usages. And, by the time they get to the same mission where Andy is, the whole account has earned the right to use the same mastery (or masteries).

Hopefully I’ve explained the idea enough to make things clearer. (I have a tendency to speak too much and say too little — maybe I should have been a politician!) But, I think it’s true both that this is less grindy. It cannot be more grindy, because you still have to earn the exact same totals for the account.

The only real difference is that one or two characters can progress through the story at their own pace, not blocked (as much) by artificial barriers to continuation. And, if the player really wants the masteries account-wide, he has to EARN them account-wide (or, more accurately, on three toons rather than one).

The only extra grind I see is for players who only have one toon they play. But, the grind they have to endure is exactly the same, so it’s not a change. They’re just given the opportunity to play more than one character while earning those XP.

NOTE: They COULD have done the same thing themselves: march three toons through HoT, each progressing to the same stopping-points. But, only when the third toon gets to that position will the account earn the actual mastery to move forward. Hence the partial-earning that my idea allows.

All that talk of “grind” you are mentioning is self-imposed. It is like a new player starting out in the tutorial instance and saying that all he wants to do it fight in Orr, but he has to “grind” 79 levels to reach it without being at a disadvantage. That on-the-way experience isn’t meant to get in your way, so much as to flesh out the content between plot-points. It is there to incentivise you to explore the world provided, rather than rushing to the end and suddenly feeling like there was hardly any content.

Think of it this way: your character didn’t just hop from instance to instance in 0-time to follow the story. In truth, the events, enemies, and npc’s you encounter between instances are also apart of the story; they are situations you encounter in an open world, rather than an instance. It takes opposition and effort for you character to attune to the jungle and learn tricks and skills to better transverse it. The story instances are just where those skills are truly put to use.

Following last post, I’d say it’s important you do the dragon stand meta BEFORE that part of the story. I feel like it was designed this way too.

The Mastery Points are horrible for someone who can’t spend all day everyday playing the game, and/or abhors jumping puzzles… I haven’t been able to get even 1 of them in the last week… and advancing to a level of say… gliding… is impossible without them. The ones I can get i already have for the most part… My level of frustration is reaching quitting levels…

You don’t need more than like 20 mastery points total to play the game, which can be obtained by just following a zerg to events and doing them.

Shiyo.3578:

Following last post, I’d say it’s important you do the dragon stand meta BEFORE that part of the story. I feel like it was designed this way too.

Both actually occur at the same time.

I like the idea.

It’s like how the GW2 launcher works. You can start playing once your bar goes past the playable part, but if you wait for the bar to fill up completely then you won’t have to worry about downloading content as you play.

Fill your mastery xp bar to a point, and your character unlocks that mastery. Fill the bar up completely to unlock the mastery for your whole account. It’s so simple and easy.

AliamRationem.5172:

While you bring up some valid criticisms, I’m not sure how “normal” it is to attempt to play through the storyline from start to finish prior to exploring any of the jungle maps.

I signed up for GW2 several months after HoT released, so maybe I don’t get how this game is supposed to be played. But I was more interested in exploring the maps and unlocking my elite spec and masteries than pushing for the end of the storyline. When I completed the storyline, I had already met the mastery requirements. In fact, I wouldn’t have even realized this was an issue based on my experience.

There definitely are differing playing styles.

But, I don’t see how my idea changes anything for the person who wants to explore. They would be in exactly the same situation as now, except they would pick up masteries on their main character earlier.

The only thing affected by my idea, in this case, would be that the rest of the account wouldn’t be able to use the masteries until my explorer pushed the account over the normal XP barrier (exactly as he would now).

But, your point has shown me another flaw in my communication. I’m essentially proposing a two-track XP system. One track is per account, exactly as now. Nothing changes for the account. When the account crosses the magical barrier, the account earns the mastery.

The other track is on individual characters. That track would apply only to the individual character, but would progress further. He’s still earning XP towards the account-wide mastery, but those same XP also go into his character-only mastery track.

Does that make more sense?

General Health.9678:

Well aren’t you just playing it wrong?
Not just you but probably hundreds of people. If you “just” do story or “just” kill monsters or “just” use one toon, or focus in fact on any one particular thing, I can imagine at various points that you won’t have enough mastery xp, enough mastery points, enough hero points, enough waypoints, enough map completion.

Perhaps I am. But, it’s curious that some people argued (many times, in many threads) that they defeated in 2 days or a week or whatever. Their argument was that it can’t be grindy because they did it so quickly, but that’s not relevant here.

What is relevant is that they completed the story. And, without exception, every serious gamer I know (personally) who plays any MMO always goes through the new story content as soon as they get a chance. So, I don’t think it’s all that uncommon.

Or, perhaps I just have screwy friends.

Vayne.8563:

Exalted is needed. I reached it on day two. It’s the last one needed for the story. It’s one mastery point. I’m not sure how you can spend three months on it. If I played 15 minutes a day, I could probably have gotten it in one month.

Either you’re exaggerating or you’re just really bad at the game, but there’s no way in hell you should take 3 months to get gliding, mushroom jumping, updraft use and exalted law trained.

I’m not even sure how it’s possible.

Sorry, I miscommunicated again. I quit playing HoT for 3 months, due to the frustration of hitting another gate. The key word is “another”. There’s gate after gate after gate. After I hit each one, I got a little more frustrated than I did with the last one.

What changed was that I was playing another toon (a warrior), and berserker sounded interesting. But, I realized that I needed to play in HoT in order to get her enough Hero Points to max out berserker. So, I started playing her through VB.

But, then one day I realized that this second character had earned the next mastery, the one my first character needed. So, I went back to the first toon, and worked through some more of her storyline, now that that mastery gate had been cleared.

I did run into one more after that, but now I had a reasonable way to get it: simply skip to my other characters for a time, until THEY earned the mastery.

That’s when I had the idea I presented in this thread. Not all people play like I do, but dividing up the masteries (without changing the account gating) would allow characters to run through at something closer to their own pace. But, they would only be earning a fraction of the account-wide mastery totals.

Thaddeus.4891:

From what I can see, your problem seem to be about the storyline needing masteries than the grindiness of the masteries themselves.

YES! This is what I’ve been trying to say, so far not nearly clearly enough. Thank you!

My idea would remove that gating (mostly), but only toon-by-toon. You don’t get gliding account wide until you’ve earned the account-wide total. But, individual toons could progress.

Thank you, thank you!!!

Arenanet should add 20-40 additional mastery points per region. This would reduce the grind in a dramatic way. Look at the hero points. The acquisitions is much more relaxed.

Daddicus.6128:

Thaddeus.4891:

From what I can see, your problem seem to be about the storyline needing masteries than the grindiness of the masteries themselves.

YES! This is what I’ve been trying to say, so far not nearly clearly enough. Thank you!

My idea would remove that gating (mostly), but only toon-by-toon. You don’t get gliding account wide until you’ve earned the account-wide total. But, individual toons could progress.

Thank you, thank you!!!

And the masteries needed for the storyline took me two days to get. Two days. Total. to get ALL the masteries I need for the story line.

If you’ve gotten up to the one point Exalted one, that’s the last one you need for the story line.

You didn’t finish it because you thought it would keep going. A tiny bit of research would have provided you with the information that it doesn’t.

how about introduce more new grind and call it Banana???

I actually stopped pve and didnt finished HoT due how have to grind for lame and boring masteries farm…

Still lost money since wont play the kitten pve oh… well.

Belenwyn.8674:

Arenanet should add 20-40 additional mastery points per region. This would reduce the grind in a dramatic way. Look at the hero points. The acquisitions is much more relaxed.

If they make it too easy they might as well remove the mastery system because it bears no purpose anymore.
It was meant to be a new progression system, sadly it fails horribly at that since you unlock everything at a speed which feels like “free handouts” to me.
Getting mastery lvl 166 is a joke after the last quarterly patch. If I see someone who isnt 166 yet I assume he is lazy or bought HoT very recently.

Daddicus.6128:

There’s gate after gate after gate

When it comes to the story, you really shouldn’t be hitting any gates unless you’re attempting to rush through it. Since the buff to experience, gaining the basic masteries is trivial. Now on your first journey into VB for example, doing the meta once and exploring the map is enough to unlock gliding, bouncing mushrooms and updrafts. More specifically, doing the events up to the salvage pit, then doing the salvage pit is enough to unlock your first mastery, which should be bouncing mushrooms in order to go back and do tendril torchers and bugs in the branches to unlock gliding. There is truly no grinding whatsoever if you simply play through the content. Fun fact: you’ll gain enough experience to unlock all of the required masteries just by doing each adventure once at a gold rank. If you can at least manage some gold adventures, park an alt and do them daily for 100k each.

Payne.3184:

The Mastery Points are horrible for someone who can’t spend all day everyday playing the game, and/or abhors jumping puzzles… I haven’t been able to get even 1 of them in the last week… and advancing to a level of say… gliding… is impossible without them. The ones I can get i already have for the most part… My level of frustration is reaching quitting levels…

THAT is why I proposed this idea. My hope is that it would keep players from getting frustrated (because they could actually advance), while at the same time allowing the overall account stuff to stay at arm’s reach until intended by the authors.

Shiyo.3578:

You don’t need more than like 20 mastery points total to play the game, which can be obtained by just following a zerg to events and doing them.

Zergs are for killing bosses. They shouldn’t be needed to progress through a storyline.

Redfeather.6401:

I like the idea.

It’s like how the GW2 launcher works. You can start playing once your bar goes past the playable part, but if you wait for the bar to fill up completely then you won’t have to worry about downloading content as you play.

Fill your mastery xp bar to a point, and your character unlocks that mastery. Fill the bar up completely to unlock the mastery for your whole account. It’s so simple and easy.

Obviously, I agree.

However, I don’t think it’s quite that simple. There has to be a separate track for character vs. account XP progression. But, to work the way I’m proposing, each character’s XP gain not only counts for that character, but also for the whole account. I can imagine that that might not be an easy programming task.

And, I could see a considerable learning curve for new(er) players, because it’s not something they’re used to.

Belenwyn.8674:

Arenanet should add 20-40 additional mastery points per region. This would reduce the grind in a dramatic way. Look at the hero points. The acquisitions is much more relaxed.

I agree and disagree. In my heart-of-hearts, I would all gating removed. However, I understand why they did it: to slow down progression long enough to experience the more complete story being told off of the storyline’s beaten trail.

Much of what they built is the multi-layered map, populated with stories that all relate to the main storyline, but not being required for it. This is the same with the core game, but many people skipped those entirely until they had completely forgotten about the story itself.

Go into Queensdale and run through a handful of events. About half of them relate in some way to the main storyline, but you would never know it unless you played in that area for a while. The same is true throughout core. There are even whole maps you would never get to playing just the storyline.

So, I’m not sure they need more. Perhaps they should add options. For example, I’m pretty sour on adventures, and many people have expressed a similar sentiment. I would prefer to never have to play them. But, that’s not an option if I want all the masteries. It would be nice to have other ways to earn those MPs.

But, that would cheapen the accomplishment for those who earned them.

So, I’m middle-of-the-road on this one.

Daddicus.6128:

Belenwyn.8674:

Arenanet should add 20-40 additional mastery points per region. This would reduce the grind in a dramatic way. Look at the hero points. The acquisitions is much more relaxed.

I agree and disagree. In my heart-of-hearts, I would all gating removed. However, I understand why they did it: to slow down progression long enough to experience the more complete story being told off of the storyline’s beaten trail.

Much of what they built is the multi-layered map, populated with stories that all relate to the main storyline, but not being required for it. This is the same with the core game, but many people skipped those entirely until they had completely forgotten about the story itself.

Go into Queensdale and run through a handful of events. About half of them relate in some way to the main storyline, but you would never know it unless you played in that area for a while. The same is true throughout core. There are even whole maps you would never get to playing just the storyline.

So, I’m not sure they need more. Perhaps they should add options. For example, I’m pretty sour on adventures, and many people have expressed a similar sentiment. I would prefer to never have to play them. But, that’s not an option if I want all the masteries. It would be nice to have other ways to earn those MPs.

But, that would cheapen the accomplishment for those who earned them.

So, I’m middle-of-the-road on this one.

It would be easy to add mastery points to bronze tier of the adventures. We had thid during beta and it felt right. Now it is pure grind for me : repeating the same activity over and over without no/insignificant progress. Grind in its purest form.

There are many other achievements (story, exploration etc) that do not grant mastery points. Enough occasion to add MPs.

Earning XP was never a problem. It was even fast before the buff.

Lower Hot damage, add loot right through the mobs, not just giant zerg stupidity.. let customers solo all the content bar super bosses…

That would fix the hot issues..

Dante.1508:

Lower Hot damage, add loot right through the mobs, not just giant zerg stupidity.. let customers solo all the content bar super bosses…

That would fix the hot issues..

The person I was when HOT first came out wouldn’t believe I’d be saying this, but I don’t want HOT changed. It’s great as it is. I’m hardly a great player – I can’t even see tells after a year of this game – but after a couple of months in the jungle I’m running around solo on a mes, finishing achievements, masteries completed, having fun. It’s possible. And strangest of all, I’m kind of wishing it was harder.

Daddicus.6128:

Thaddeus.4891:

From what I can see, your problem seem to be about the storyline needing masteries than the grindiness of the masteries themselves.

YES! This is what I’ve been trying to say, so far not nearly clearly enough. Thank you!

My idea would remove that gating (mostly), but only toon-by-toon. You don’t get gliding account wide until you’ve earned the account-wide total. But, individual toons could progress.

Thank you, thank you!!!

Ok just a word of advice. Next time take time to put your idea together and focus on what you are trying to say, keep it simple and make sure that your title reflect what you want to talk about. Because right now for like 90% of people your post is a rant about how HoT is grindy, not on the presence of masteries that block your progression into the story. That’s a recipe for disaster as most people won’t even talk about what you wish and you only have yourself to blame for that.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Dante.1508:

Lower Hot damage, add loot right through the mobs, not just giant zerg stupidity.. let customers solo all the content bar super bosses…

That would fix the hot issues..

The person I was when HOT first came out wouldn’t believe I’d be saying this, but I don’t want HOT changed. It’s great as it is. I’m hardly a great player – I can’t even see tells after a year of this game – but after a couple of months in the jungle I’m running around solo on a mes, finishing achievements, masteries completed, having fun. It’s possible. And strangest of all, I’m kind of wishing it was harder.

I’m just commenting on what would fix hot for some casual customers.

Dante.1508:

Lower Hot damage, add loot right through the mobs, not just giant zerg stupidity.. let customers solo all the content bar super bosses…

That would fix the hot issues..

This was done in April.

Dante.1508:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Dante.1508:

Lower Hot damage, add loot right through the mobs, not just giant zerg stupidity.. let customers solo all the content bar super bosses…

That would fix the hot issues..

The person I was when HOT first came out wouldn’t believe I’d be saying this, but I don’t want HOT changed. It’s great as it is. I’m hardly a great player – I can’t even see tells after a year of this game – but after a couple of months in the jungle I’m running around solo on a mes, finishing achievements, masteries completed, having fun. It’s possible. And strangest of all, I’m kind of wishing it was harder.

I’m just commenting on what would fix hot for casual customers.

I’m sorry but no one elected you spokesperson for casual customers. You’re one guy. There are a few people who agree with you.

But from my observations, even just on this forum, there are as many or more self-identified casual players who disagree with you. It’s human nature to believe if you feel something strongly others must feel the same way, but that’s not really the way the world works.

I have plenty of casual people playing in my guild who are fine with HoT. All you can really comment on is what will fix it for you. You can’t talk for other casual players because they don’t all agree with you…even just in this thread.

You might not be play well enough to solo hot, but please stop trying to push the point that casual = unskilled, because I’ve never read any definition of casual that means that.

YOU would like to see HoT made easier. Some casuals undoubtedly would too. But other casuals are okay with the difficulty of HoT.