Good, how it should be.
Certain in-game items should only come from raids as it gives prestige to the content.
To those screaming “I don’t like raids though!” Well then I guess you ain’t getting the rewards it brings.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: I See No Tomorrow.7302
Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?
I REALLY hope it is not all RNG because the cooldown for the reward is one WEEK! If they can implement some kind of token system then it would be nice.
Imagine getting duplicate trophies for months…
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: I See No Tomorrow.7302
How is every other MMO having them as part of their core game so EVERYONE can enjoy them escaping you?
GW2 has dungeons and fractals and WvW and PvP and world bosses, etc etc in the core game. Raids are not fundamental content. I mean, this is GW2, not every other MMO.
I know that your point is that you understand Raids are behind HoT but you believe they shouldn’t be behind HoT. That doesn’t make much sense to me. Releasing a type of content for free while releasing the rest behind HoT will raise questions as to why they’re not just releasing HoT content all for free anyway, if something as huge as Raids can be free. Besides, “Challenging Group Content” was one of the primary signatures of HoT, and as that content literally is Raids, it’s going to be released with HoT.
Back in GW1 the battle between Kurzicks and Luxons was a Factions-only PvP event, people with Prophecies and Nightfall could not (and cannot) access Alliance Battles. Nor can they access Urgoz’s Warren and The Deep.
I mean, especially because Raids are one of the main selling points of HoT, I doubt that it will change. Your point about how it would be better if it were free can apply to literally everything else in HoT as well, and then we might as well not pay for it. I think it’s just fine that Raids are part of Heart of Thorns.
How is this even remotely news to you?
Alright lets break this down a little bit.
First off you can not even enter the raid without HoT. Second off why would a feature being released with HoT be able to be played by the regular core game players. Raids are a feature of HoT just like the new maps are.
Most new raids that come out for every MMO are locked behind the expansion that they are associated with. You dont wanna buy HoT you dont get to participate in the raid. I have a suggestion for you and your guildies buy HoT. Dont have the money? Its 50$ and you have almost 2 months to save up for it. Dont tell me ythey dont want to buy HoT cause there is nothing they want in it cause if they want to raid there is clearly something they want from it.
Do you not want Anet to succeed as a company? They are already allowing players to play their multi-million dollar expense core game free of charge purely out of the kindness of their hearts so that new players won’t need to buy multiple boxes to have the fully updated game. They have no subscription fee to get in a constant and steady stream of money. The only incentive to spend extra money on the game is cosmetic additions that give no substantial advantage to the buyer.
Anet is providing SO MUCH free content now that it’s a little worrisome they might be giving too much. Now you’re asking them to spend a few million more on content so they can give it to you for free?
I for one will be buying the expansion so that the company can stay afloat and keep putting out new content. Most of which will be free additions to HoT judging by how they handled the core game over the last few years. Anyone who doesn’t buy the expansion are in no position to be demanding more free content.
I get how the mastery system would be beneficial… Especially one based upon progressing within the raid. My issue is Gliding and mushroom mastery can only be earned via HoT. Therefore excluding all core players from being able to progress past certain points within raids.
They want to sell their expansion. the expansion needs selling points for people to buy it. There you go. Its a business decision, and an appropriate one – people who want to raid need to buy HoT, just as people who want to play in Verdant Brink need to buy HoT. Nothing whatsoever unreasonable about it.
Gw2 is STILL considered a buy to play game . . .
(also looking at soloman’s history, he’s a hypocrite)
Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?
Very correct, now all they have to do is implement legendary armour, skins, minis and titles for the top tier in pvp and wvw and the game will be able to offer something for everyone …
Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?
Very correct, now all they have to do is implement legendary armour, skins, minis and titles for the top tier in pvp and wvw and the game will be able to offer something for everyone …
Legendary back for top tier pvp
Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?
Very correct, now all they have to do is implement legendary armour, skins, minis and titles for the top tier in pvp and wvw and the game will be able to offer something for everyone …
Legendary back for top tier pvp
Hardly competes with full set of legendary armour, minis, other skins, titles, guild decos if you’re a pve’er though… fair is fair, they need as much love as the raiders
And if you’re into WvW .. well … tough luck huh?
I am excited about the new raid content that is coming in Heart of Thorns, but since I do not believe in joining huge guilds of anonymous people, I realize that it will likely be some time before I can convince enough of my friends to join me. Keeping this in mind, I do have some questions about Raids that I would love to see answered in the coming article about it:
As someone who loves doing Paths and Fractals, are my favorite pass-times going to become obsolete? What will the fate of Fractals and Paths be once Raiding is introduced?
If they do not, will the gear I win in them be equivalent to the gear I get in Raids? Let’s get honest here: WoW failed at giving equality to Non-Raiders. Without equivalent gear, I will be looked down upon as a lesser denizen of Tyria. What of my phat gear l00tz?
Raids seem like a great idea. I love that the size of the group is staying small. But I worry about the mentality and over all feel of the community once Raiding comes into play. Most MMOs are a numbers game, some more than others. One of the things I love and often boast about is that Guild Wars 2 lets me play my character the way I want. There is no right or wrong way for me to do what I want to do. I worry that Raiding will change the open-minded state that most Guild Wars 2 players have. What incentive will there be for players to remain open and friendly? How will you (the devs) keep Guild Wars 2 from becoming a game of numbers? (ie: Must have X of Y Stat to Join Group).
This is all the questions I have for now. I do not expect the Devs to answer here, but I do hope someone looks at it and thinks to address some of these points in the coming article about Raids. I am also interested to hear if there are other people out there that have questions and concerns about how Raiding will change Tyria.
I agree with most of the posts here. Raids…or challenging group content (as it was referred to) has always been part of the advertised expansion content. If anything, this goes to answer those concerns about the amount of content in this paid expansion. For those that choose not to buy HoT, they will still have the same content that they paid for at launch…nothing about that content is diminished. Raids are new to this expansion and it only makes sense to lock them behind that wall.
You make a very interesting and unexpected point there.
These people contradict themselves.
1st it was, A.net your x-pack doesn’t seem to have enough content to convince me to buy it.
A.net divulges information about Raiding and legendary armor.
Now, they are saying, what ? we don’t get this for free ? that’s it I’m not buying the x-pack.
kitten ed if they do and kitten ed if they don’t.
These people were never gonna buy the x-pack to begin with, they just love complaining and will find the needle in the hay stack to complain about.
I’m a PvE player and I’m all in for the PvPonly/WvWonly reward.
I mentioned before the tournament weapon set (I personnaly still use the staff on my guard) and someone else talked about the leg backpack.
But indeed it is not enough. PvP and WvW should also get their own reward. But in the mean time I’m thrilled about raid only rewards^^.
apparently some people do think anet do not need to make money to sustain the servers and pay bills/wages….
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: I See No Tomorrow.7302
Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?
Very correct, now all they have to do is implement legendary armour, skins, minis and titles for the top tier in pvp and wvw and the game will be able to offer something for everyone …
If you want the rewards for certain content, then you have to do that content. That’s what exclusivity means. What are you getting at?
Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?
Very correct, now all they have to do is implement legendary armour, skins, minis and titles for the top tier in pvp and wvw and the game will be able to offer something for everyone …
Legendary back for top tier pvp
Hardly competes with full set of legendary armour, minis, other skins, titles, guild decos if you’re a pve’er though… fair is fair, they need as much love as the raiders
And if you’re into WvW .. well … tough luck huh?
We don’t know if they have plans to add things to WvW later or not but it would make sense if they plan to. As to the pvp they’re also adding reward tracks
If you want the rewards for certain content, then you have to do that content. That’s what exclusivity means. What are you getting at?
He just wants more exclusive rewards for PVP and WvWvW so doing those game modes is as rewarding as doing PVE, as currently they are not. Which is legit. Especially since it’s a lot harder to win a PVP tournament than it is to clear a dungeon.
I do not know how you could offer good rewards for WvWvW though. Making it only available to top servers seems like it’d be unfair to people on low population servers, which is hardly their fault. I guess you could make it obtainable through a badges grind but… Eh. Grinds are the worst.
Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?
Very correct, now all they have to do is implement legendary armour, skins, minis and titles for the top tier in pvp and wvw and the game will be able to offer something for everyone …
Agree actually. I love raids and getting unique and cool stuff from them, but I also really hope an alternate set of legendary armor, titles, etc. are added to the living world for its particular challenges, just like how SW had the luminescant armor, all of PvP needs serious love on the unique items front.
Heck, in a perfect world every single event would offer something unique, but that would be a crazy huge amount of unique items beyond the financial ability of any studio.
Lets be honest thieves are far from the best class when it comes to PVE . Yeah we can stealth a group to pass trash mobs, pump out blast finishers with short bow and provide OK dps but that’s not enough to legitimize us for raiding. I guess my point is why should I play my thief, which is in fact my favorite class, over my warrior or elementalist both of which can outplay my thief with little to no effort in the pve scene.
(edited by Zeliden.2014)
Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?
Very correct, now all they have to do is implement legendary armour, skins, minis and titles for the top tier in pvp and wvw and the game will be able to offer something for everyone …
If you want the rewards for certain content, then you have to do that content. That’s what exclusivity means. What are you getting at?
He wants exclusive rewards for pvp and wvw. Not the same ones as the raid gives. Which I agree with. Those game modes need more love and while a legendary back piece is a step in the right direction, it’s not really enough.
The entitlement is real…
You just mentioned two reasons. In addition, you have amazing potential D/D dps, amazing tanking potential once daredevil is released, and already amazing control potential via s/p for adds. You’ve also go great mobility for any content that requires a runner role.
Remember that dedicated roles are a thing in raids, and think less about who can do toolboxes and more about if you specialized to do just one thing that isn’t DPS, how good would you be at it?
We thieves are actually good at a lot of things in PvE, we’ve just not simultaneously halfway good at all of them at once as some other classes are. I doubt those halfway build/gear setups are going to be nearly as useful given what anet has said about raids.
Turbine (LOTRO, DnD Online) business model is the only other good business model besides GW2’s. Even then, new contents are still unlocked behind expansions. So the practice is normal. No need to cry.
Didn’t know control and thief could be used in the same sentence. Thieves are amazing tanks, really? We have amazing evasion but not everything can be evaded.
thief is good for black powder.
Didn’t know control and thief could be used in the same sentence. Thieves are amazing tanks, really? We have amazing evasion but not everything can be evaded.
I already tank trash in every instance my group does that requires trash tanking via a combination of evades, blinds, and life on hit. Necro support extra life on hit actually bumped it up a notch. It is highly effective against everything that ain’t dredge.
When you’re willing to sacrifice DPS, pretty much all classes have good control or tanking builds for pve, as mob attacks that hit hard enough to oneshot are always dodgeable and slow enough you can play around them, unlike players. The thing is that in the current content most players prefer to just pile on primarily damage for speed runs.
It’s ok to voice your concerns but at least make it something that’s not moronic. Complaining that you need to get HoT to be able to play Raids is the same as Diablo 3 players complaining that they had to buy Reaper of Souls to play the 5th chapter, Greater Rifts/Bounties and access to Crusader class.
I don’t know why this community gave birth to some of the most entitled and spoiled group of people out of all the games I saw. It’s really not funny anymore and it’s insulting to the devs. Grow up for god’s sake.
Dungeons will probably be less popular when HoT releases.
Fractals will probably actually be more popular due to the rework and the fact you can get legendary back pieces from it.
Raids don’t give you equipment with better stats than ascended.
you can rez dead teammates. Which might be really handy.
I don’t know why this community gave birth to some of the most entitled and spoiled group of people out of all the games I saw.
Easy AFK Gold Farming + No Sub Fee + “Play How You Want”
Face it, when a game launches an expansion, those who don’t buy it get to keep doing all the older stuff. They get holiday festivals. They get feature updates. They don’t get new content. Expecting otherwise bucks industry trends and is an unrealistic expectation that one price paid however long ago means free content updates forever.
However, at one point Anet did say that they weren’t planning an expansion, and that expansion style content could be delivered via living world updates. When they announced the expansion, there was a long wait before they said that living world updates would return after HoT release. Players have been hanging in limbo a lot while ANet made up its mind, iterated until they had something solid, then finally let us know. A little more communication earlier could have sunk the OP’s ship a long time ago.
Also, raids are 10 man instances, not the awkward 40 and 50 person cat-herding fests you may have encountered in other games.
If you already have 5 friends for fractals, it shouldn’t be difficult to find another group that would hook up with you once a week.
Raids in GW2 aren’t about better gear. Like everything else they’re about better looking gear. You won’t fall behind just because you don’t raid enough.
I’m not a new player that only has a thief and is crying over nothing. I play Guardian, Necro, ele, and warrior too. My point is simply that I’m worried my thief won’t be picked for raids groups and I’ll be forced to play a class that I don’t enjoy.
I get how the mastery system would be beneficial… Especially one based upon progressing within the raid. My issue is Gliding and mushroom mastery can only be earned via HoT. Therefore excluding all core players from being able to progress past certain points within raids.
Core players will literally be unable to walk into the Raid – the door is in the expansion lands… Masteries aren’t their first hurdle xD
Then that creates an even MORE fundamental issue… I know just in my guild alone several people who won’t be getting HoT. Will there ever be Raids getting added to Core?
Are you serious?
The fundamental issue is your reading comphrension….
RAIDS are HoT only…. i’m sorry but you gotta buy the xpac if you want raids dude… its not free and it doesn’t have to be free. If you don’t like it, too bad.
You think raids are something that is easy to do for anet? doesn’t have a big cost of resources or anything? It’s a tall task for anet, so its coming in the xpac. I don’t see this as an issue.
Either get the xpac or you are not going to have the content… simple as that.. No point in whining.
ummmm perhaps you can’t read… I have HoT… I’m only playing devil’s advocate for those who choose not to get it. It makes it appear development, at least any substantial ones, have been abandoned for core players.
well you make a fine point, but yeah thats what it boils down to, core is done. they expect everyone who wants to do new stuff to buy the latest expansion.
They only leave in wvw and pvp because it will cripple either mode
I’m not a new player that only has a thief and as such am crying. I play Guardian, Necro, ele, and warrior too. My point is simply that I’m worried my thief won’t be picked for raids groups and I’ll be forced to play a class that I don’t enjoy.
All the Necros and Rangers suddenly start chanting in unison “One of us. One of us…”
Not saying thief can’t do any of these things… I’m simply saying other classes can do what they do better.
The way GW2 works, it’s all about composition. The “meta” classes are the way they are because they work well together and are easy to understand and build. They’re not better at completing content. They’re better at completing content with randoms and require less coordination to do so.
There’s not a single piece of content in the game that can’t be completed with a randomly selected assortment of classes, provided those classes run builds designed to support one another, and I don’t expect that will change with raids. The content will be harder, and it will require more role focused gear, and people that demand meta builds will absolutely demand them harder. There will probably be an “optimal run time” comp as well, just like there is for the current content.
If you’re concerned about speed running, then prepare to roll within whatever meta develops. If you’d rather play the class you like, be prepared to put together a team of like minded players and design complimentary builds.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Zxavier Augistine.7312
I believe the OP isn’t comprehending that multiple times Anet devs had said “hardcore group content will be coming with HOT” Raids, their FIRST RAID, is being released with HOT if people cannot accept that then thats too bad. Core has been out for 3 years now, and will likely not get very much “new hardcore content” added because they have just released an expansion.
To the OP, dont play devils advocate, its not a game that benefits anyone.
(edited by Zxavier Augistine.7312)
It’s not about having fun, it’s about if 2 thieves + 8 randoms can do it as fast as 2 eles +8 randoms.
Reasons to bring a thief (assuming they do a good job on designing raids):
1) Blind fields for trash mobs
2) Blast finisher spamming
3) Beastly DPS
4) Unparalleled mobility
5) Group stealth
6) Stealth rez
Some of these advantages are limited in dungeons, but the scope of design will be much larger in raids, so you can expect to see a lot of this be useful there.
However, the pure dps alone will justify a spot.
Easy AFK Gold Farming
teach me senpai……!!
Straight from the blogpost that posted a few hours ago
" First, you can earn unique rewards once per week from raids, but you can play a raid as many times as you want to help your friends earn rewards or to refine your strategies. The encounters within Raids will contain tons of exclusive new items you’ll never be able to find anywhere else in the game, from miniatures, to weapon skins, to awesome titles. You can then proudly display these out in the open world to show off your skill and accomplishments. Own a Guild Hall? Awesome! You can loot a trophy from some of our bosses and use them as decorations to show off the challenge you’ve conquered. "
Well Ohoni, looks like your dream of non exclusive rewards are shattered
I’m interested in seeing if these rewards are actually end of raid chest RNG (like teq hoard) or will they be dropping in the raids from the mobs/bosses …. thoughts?
I just hope its not like frac skins RNG right now….
one week lock outs on loot?
bad idea.
people wont help much unless the non unique rewards are crazy.
gonna be hard to get groups going with one per week rewards.
basically needs raiding guilds, specific log on days, and all the drama that comes with that.
warrior can dish out more single target dps and ele by far can out aoe dps thief.
It’s not about having fun, it’s about if 2 thieves + 8 randoms can do it as fast as 2 eles +8 randoms.
That’s my point.
It’s not about speed. It’s about completion.
If speed is your goal then you’re absolutely going to have exactly one build option and one class option for every member of the raid. There will be an optimal speed comp. That’s unavoidable. There is always a “best”
It sounds like you’re concerned with viability and options for speed clears. Speed clears by their very nature eliminate all options but one. If you think your clear is fastest and someone else comes up with a faster clear, you are now rerolling. Full stop.
You can’t be both looking for speed clears and looking for the ability to play whatever class or spec you like. You’re going to have to pick one or the other.
However, with a week reward lockout, or pretty much any timed lockouts on any rewards speed clears don’t affect earning potential at all so it’s just bragging rights and personal preference based on playstyle and time avaliable to complete content.
(edited by PopeUrban.2578)
It’s not about having fun, it’s about if 2 thieves + 8 randoms can do it as fast as 2 eles +8 randoms.
That’s my point.
It’s not about speed. It’s about completion.
If speed is your goal then you’re absolutely going to have exactly one build option and one class option for every member of the raid. There will be an optimal speed comp. That’s unavoidable. There is always a “best”
It sounds like you’re concerned with viability and options for speed clears. Speed clears by their very nature eliminate all options but one. If you think your clear is fastest and someone else comes up with a faster clear, you are now rerolling. Full stop.
You can’t be both looking for speed clears and looking for the ability to play whatever class or spec you like. You’re going to have to pick one or the other.
However, with a week reward lockout, or pretty much any timed lockouts on any rewards speed clears don’t affect earning potential at all so it’s just bragging rights and personal preference based on playstyle and time avaliable to complete content.
This entire argument is placed in a time period far into the future when everyone is aware of the mechanics and have figured them out enough to worry about getting through in record time.
No one is going to approach these in the first weeks thinking “how can I get through this the fastest?”. They are going to be worrying about how to beat it at all.
The very real and reasonable worry is that some classes are just going to be found to be less than optimal to the point that taking them introduces too much risk of failure and they will be shunned like lepers in the same way that current “not speed clear optimal” classes are.
The difference is that you can make a non-speed group for fractals/dungeons. Not so much for stuff that is hard enough that failure is a real possibility with certain group comps.
It’s not about having fun, it’s about if 2 thieves + 8 randoms can do it as fast as 2 eles +8 randoms.
That’s my point.
It’s not about speed. It’s about completion.
If speed is your goal then you’re absolutely going to have exactly one build option and one class option for every member of the raid. There will be an optimal speed comp. That’s unavoidable. There is always a “best”
It sounds like you’re concerned with viability and options for speed clears. Speed clears by their very nature eliminate all options but one. If you think your clear is fastest and someone else comes up with a faster clear, you are now rerolling. Full stop.
You can’t be both looking for speed clears and looking for the ability to play whatever class or spec you like. You’re going to have to pick one or the other.
However, with a week reward lockout, or pretty much any timed lockouts on any rewards speed clears don’t affect earning potential at all so it’s just bragging rights and personal preference based on playstyle and time avaliable to complete content.
This entire argument is placed in a time period far into the future when everyone is aware of the mechanics and have figured them out enough to worry about getting through in record time.
No one is going to approach these in the first weeks thinking “how can I get through this the fastest?”. They are going to be worrying about how to beat it at all.
The very real and reasonable worry is that some classes are just going to be found to be less than optimal to the point that taking them introduces too much risk of failure and they will be shunned like lepers in the same way that current “not speed clear optimal” classes are.
The difference is that you can make a non-speed group for fractals/dungeons. Not so much for stuff that is hard enough that failure is a real possibility with certain group comps.
Your point here is good, but it’s based around the assumption that everyone is pugging raids.
If you’re pugging you don’t get to choose other people’s expectations, and you can’t control them. They could make every class completely mechanically viable for the exact same clear speed, and you’d still get turned down from pugs for “not being the right build” because the “right” build is the one that the world first twitch superstar posted and everyone else copied.
This is a very similar issue to speed clearing in the first place.
Clearing content is a balance issue. Attempting to forsee the whims of masses of (often unreasonable or just plain wrong) players is beyond the realm of balance or software design.
Pope to give you an idea of how bad thieves were in big group fights such as wvw a lot of T1 guilds banned thieves. They’ve made a slight comeback as venom bots and picks for gvgs but still are not welcomed in top tier game play.
(edited by Zeliden.2014)
Pope to give you an idea of how bad thieves were in big group fights such as wvw a lot of T1 guilds banned thieves. They’ve made a slight comeback as venom bots and picks for gvgs but still are not welcomed in top tier game play.
That’s a far different situation. That’s actually a usability issue that impacts their ability to do a job. Usability in PvE is a very different thing than usability in PvP.
In PvE you only need to balance around successfully completing an event, instance or zone within the alotted time limit or other limiting parameter. In PvP you have to balance around the peak effectiveness of opponents, as “ability to complete” also means “ability to compete”
In PvE you’re only competing with mobs and against an enrage timer, so “optimal” is actually optional in a way that it isn’t in PvP.
Fractals should remain as challenging content for smaller groups with less time commitment than raids.
Statistically speaking you will not get better gear from raids. However, the only way to acquire Legendary Armor will be from raiding. So there will definitely be that aspect.
We intend for raiding to be the most difficult PvE content in the game requiring very high levels of skill both in group organization and personal skill levels. If you are using a sub-optimal build, it is quite likely that you will be unable to complete the content. We can hope that an elitist attitude from this doesn’t bleed over into less challenging content, but that is really up to you, our community. That said, I believe it is our intention that you may need to mix up your build for different raids and different encounters, so perhaps that will dampen the effects of anyone insisting that you use 1 particular build all the time.
We do hope you get the opportunity to try and enjoy the new raiding content. We’ve been playing it a lot internally and having a lot of fun with it.
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