Guild Wars 2

Well Ohoni, looks like your dream of non exclusive rewards are shattered

Yeah, it’s not looking good, but I’m glad you’re happy that I’m sad, that’s the mark of a truly great person.

We can only hope that they continue to iterate on this design and make these rewards available through other means (aside from the trophies, which can stay).

Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?

It allows people who want those rewards to earn them, even if they have no interest in Raids. Raids are, by their nature, exclusionary content that most players are not intended to complete. By locking these rewards behind raiding, it puts them off limits for large portions of the players, which is antithetical to GW2’s basic philosophy of inclusion. They’ve turned to the Dark Side.

Ohoni.6057:

Well Ohoni, looks like your dream of non exclusive rewards are shattered

Yeah, it’s not looking good, but I’m glad you’re happy that I’m sad, that’s the mark of a truly great person.

We can only hope that they continue to iterate on this design and make these rewards available through other means (aside from the trophies, which can stay).

Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?

It allows people who want those rewards to earn them, even if they have no interest in Raids. Raids are, by their nature, exclusionary content that most players are not intended to complete. By locking these rewards behind raiding, it puts them off limits for large portions of the players, which is antithetical to GW2’s basic philosophy of inclusion. They’ve turned to the Dark Side.

While it does go against what they’ve said on some level, they have absolutely no way of giving hardcore players something worthwhile if it’s available to every mediocre/inexperienced player who stumbles into every random group they can.

Hardcore players want to show off what they’ve accomplished just because it’s exclusively earned through their effort and hardwork. If you look at legendaries and ascended gear, they lost their status very quickly with how mindless and profitable a lot of open world grinding is. Hardcore players are entirely left behind while casuals literally have everything they want.

Hardcore players are finally getting their own shard of content that’s for them, while casuals get EVERYTHING else. If a casual player wants to be a completionist, all they have to do is put the effort into working with 9 other players to clear very demanding content.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Yeah but in no other MMO is something as fundamental as raiding xpac only…

Can you name a AAA game that allowed the player to access new raids and content without buying the expansion or original box

While it does go against what they’ve said on some level, they have absolutely no way of giving hardcore players something worthwhile if it’s available to every mediocre/inexperienced player who stumbles into every random group they can.

Sure they can. They give them the same unique rewards as they give to “every mediocre/inexperienced player.” Both groups get rewards. The hardcore players don’t deserve better rewards just because they’re hardcore players, any more than the other players deserve worse rewards because they are not. They are both players in the game and both equally deserving of rewards for their time and effort.

If you look at legendaries and ascended gear, they lost their status very quickly with how mindless and profitable a lot of open world grinding is.

Yes, and that’s great because it allowed more people that wanted them to get them. “Status” is a destructive myth.

Hardcore players are finally getting their own shard of content that’s for them, while casuals get EVERYTHING else.

That’s a poor justification, it doesn’t matter what quantity each group has access to, all that matters is that the specific items that someone wants are available. If a given player can get 90% of the items in the game, that fact might be completely irrelevant if the items he does want are locked up in that remaining 10%.

Besides, how much of the content in the game is ONLY available to casuals and is excluded from hardcore players? If your answer is “none,” then how can you possibly claim that it’s in balance that hardcore players would have any exclusive content if none is excluded from them? That would be like saying that a given class is in balance when they have a fair shot at winning 90% of PvP matches, but also get a bonus 10% chance of automatically winning their match without even having to try. Why would the other classes have any reason to complain? They could still win the other 90% of the time.

If a casual player wants to be a completionist, all they have to do is put the effort into working with 9 other players to clear very demanding content.

Do you truly think that the “hardcore” players would be happy if 100% of players could complete their “hardcore” content? Or do you think it’s more likely that they would complain the content was too easy and would need to be ramped up even more. Given the developer’s statements about raids, they seem far too inconvenient and complex to assume that the majority of players would be willing and able to engage in it, so “if you want the rewards, then you should just do the content” is not a valid response.

((shrug)) People will be selling raid slots with groups that can clear it with 9 people (or less) soon enough. I suspect there will also be some learning groups and semi-open raid nights where a person who can kinda-sorta-mostly pull their own weight can hook up with other players to learn how to do it and eventually earn some raid-currency/rolls on the raid-loot table.

Everyone deserves a cookie! You get a cookie, you get a cookie!

Stats are the same as anything you can get anywhere else, the only thing you don’t get is a skin…..
Only those who did WvW can get the mistforge weaps (even if they only did a little bit)
Only those who do Fractals can get Fractal skins…

Where is the q.q for those??

Do the thing that gives the reward you want, not that hard of a concept.

As far as casual players that don’t want to put in as much effort? Join a guild who does em, and let em carry you. How long they’d be willing to carry is another question.
(Next we’ll have people who won’t learn the raids complaining when people ask them to do a certain build or carry a certain weapon)

I am all for more skins being implemented in wvw and pve. However, as for legendary armor, we have to remember that from raids we are only getting a piece used in recipes for legendary armor. We are not getting legendary armor itself from raids. This is confirmed on the heart of thorns website. Hopefully, other materials needed to craft legendary armor will involve wvw, conquest, stronghold, and fractals. That way you can only get legendary armor if you play well in all aspects of the game.

((shrug)) People will be selling raid slots with groups that can clear it with 9 people (or less) soon enough.

That’s not a solution, just an exploit. It’s another way of funneling money to those higher skilled players at the expense of lower skilled ones, not a way of balancing them out.

I suspect there will also be some learning groups and semi-open raid nights where a person who can kinda-sorta-mostly pull their own weight can hook up with other players to learn how to do it and eventually earn some raid-currency/rolls on the raid-loot table.

and even if that does work out, it still requires the player to participate in the raid, which is something they probably have no interest in doing. Why is it the game’s job to bribe players into doing content that they do not enjoy? This is an entertainment product, shouldn’t the game be rewarding players for having fun? Who benefits from a player spending hours of his life not enjoying himself?

Where is the q.q for those??

In the past, when those changes came out. These changes are happening now, which is why these are the changes that are being discussed right now. That doesn’t mean that those previous cases were good things, or that they should not be fixed, just that they are not the cases of the moment.

As far as casual players that don’t want to put in as much effort?

I haven’t heard of a single player complaining that they don’t want to put in as much effort. The only comments I’ve heard on the subject is from players who are willing to put forth the same amount of effort, but wish to do so in other aspects of the game, such as PvP, WvW, open world PvE, etc., aspects that they enjoy more than raiding.

This is not about “doing less effort.”

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

The only counter I can think of is the more damage you deal, the more damage your opponent deals in all forms. Thus higher DPS builds wouldn’t really be wanted since you’d just be killing everyone faster.

How about a boss with stats based on the raiders’ stats?

Either directly (more power for the raiders means more power for the boss) or inverted (more power for the raiders means more toughness for the boss). It’s kind of a cheap trick, though…

I expect to see at least one boss where if its health drops too fast, it changes tactics to wipe out glass cannon builds.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Randulf.7614:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Look folks… normally I’m on your side on these types of discussions lol but to me Raiding SHOULD NOT be expansion only content. Anything that requires a group shouldn’t be. It’s exclusionary for a MYRIAD of reasons.

Absolutely 110% it should be expac only content. It’s a huge incentive for ppl to get HoT. This is how MMO’s work. You want the latest dungeon/raid, then you pay for it as part of the expansion. And we knew the challenging content was locked behind HoT since the announcement back at the beginning of the year.

The sheer amount of content available for free should be enough for those ppl unhappy.

Yeah but in no other MMO is something as fundamental as raiding xpac only…

Explain why it’s a fundamental feature? Saying that other games do it doesn’t count.

Random.4691:

phys.7689:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

SkiTz.4590:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Coulter.2315:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

I get how the mastery system would be beneficial… Especially one based upon progressing within the raid. My issue is Gliding and mushroom mastery can only be earned via HoT. Therefore excluding all core players from being able to progress past certain points within raids.

Core players will literally be unable to walk into the Raid – the door is in the expansion lands… Masteries aren’t their first hurdle xD

Then that creates an even MORE fundamental issue… I know just in my guild alone several people who won’t be getting HoT. Will there ever be Raids getting added to Core?

Are you serious?

The fundamental issue is your reading comphrension….

RAIDS are HoT only…. i’m sorry but you gotta buy the xpac if you want raids dude… its not free and it doesn’t have to be free. If you don’t like it, too bad.

You think raids are something that is easy to do for anet? doesn’t have a big cost of resources or anything? It’s a tall task for anet, so its coming in the xpac. I don’t see this as an issue.

Either get the xpac or you are not going to have the content… simple as that.. No point in whining.

ummmm perhaps you can’t read… I have HoT… I’m only playing devil’s advocate for those who choose not to get it. It makes it appear development, at least any substantial ones, have been abandoned for core players.

well you make a fine point, but yeah thats what it boils down to, core is done. they expect everyone who wants to do new stuff to buy the latest expansion.
They only leave in wvw and pvp because it will cripple either mode

It’s not really a valid point, it’s the norm for the industry, side from bug fixes and balancing, core games generally go on the back burner to bring new and exciting content. I haven’t purchased HoT yet because of lack of content, I’m happy to see something I might enjoy is being rolled into the xpac, I’m starting to find reasons why I should buy it now.

they shown some decent content to date, though some is free to core players due to the fact they did not want Wvw and PvP splits.

Ohoni.6057:

and even if that does work out, it still requires the player to participate in the raid, which is something they probably have no interest in doing.

That ship has sailed, and it sailed long ago. I’m not big on participating in guilds made up of hundreds of people I’ve never taken a meal with, but that was the requirement to get guild merits and the weapon skins those buy. I’m not a huge PvP’er in this game but I had to do it to get the glorious medium armor coat (turns out I’m actually pretty good at it). I like Fractals well enough, but I haven’t done so many the RNG has dropped any of the weapon skins on me. I don’t have any of the luminescent armor despite having thousands of hours played. I still haven’t killed Liadri, but I understand that its a requirement to have the miniature and wear the title.

You either jump through specific hoops or you don’t. But hoops are well established as part of Gw2’s rewards system.

I find Neitzsche to be mostly a morose twit, but he did get one thing right – to truly want something is to want to take all the steps required to get it. Otherwise you’re just fantasizing about it. While I’m with you that alternative, proportionate methods of acquisition would be a huge plus, I just don’t see ANet adjusting course on something they’ve already done repeatedly in the past. On the other hand we’ve seen them respond to the irritating nature of the first round of weapon precursors by added a new means of acquisition, so maybe the same will eventually be done for the armor legendaries. Years from now, but eventually.

Of course there will be lots of RNG. The ability to make legendary armor will likely be locked behind a crafting recipe, which will be locked behind the RNG of a container, and that container will be locked behind another wall of RNG of a boss chest. Like legendary weapons, legendary armor will be set up so that no matter what, some will NEVER get it because of RNG.

Ehecatl.9172:

I do not know how you could offer good rewards for WvWvW though. Making it only available to top servers seems like it’d be unfair to people on low population servers, which is hardly their fault. I guess you could make it obtainable through a badges grind but… Eh. Grinds are the worst.

Well, I don’t do WvWvW, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but how about this:

The castle at the center of the main map can, if held long enough, spawn a special forge/node/ect that gives you part of what you need to get the W3 legendaries.

Let’s say the castle has to be held for 1 hour, and after that it spawns a “Black Diamond” node. You can harvest from this once every three hours. Each part of the legendary armor (and other rewards, if you go for them) costs you X amount of black diamonds and badges. With a recharge timer of 3 hours, it’s not really possible to pass around ownership of the castle to all three servers fairly and still get full access, so nobody would really want to cooperate to do that.

Palador.2170:

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

The only counter I can think of is the more damage you deal, the more damage your opponent deals in all forms. Thus higher DPS builds wouldn’t really be wanted since you’d just be killing everyone faster.

How about a boss with stats based on the raiders’ stats?

Either directly (more power for the raiders means more power for the boss) or inverted (more power for the raiders means more toughness for the boss). It’s kind of a cheap trick, though…

I expect to see at least one boss where if its health drops too fast, it changes tactics to wipe out glass cannon builds.

Very lame trick indeed for the stat changing.

The other thing though, YES, I want it, I want it bad. It’s a pretty common strategy to punish the DPS stacking tactics in raiding games I’ve played. You have % based triggers, but unlike the lupi and grawl phasing no skipping through them, if you unleash a burn that drops it 10% and at every 5% he spawns a wave of adds, well now you get 2 waves.

Makes high DPS risky, but that’s the point, high risk, high reward, reward being faster kill.

It’s going to use the Fractals and Dungeons forum that we already have.

That ship has sailed, and it sailed long ago. I’m not big on participating in guilds made up of hundreds of people I’ve never taken a meal with, but that was the requirement to get guild merits and the weapon skins those buy. I’m not a huge PvP’er in this game but I had to do it to get the glorious medium armor coat (turns out I’m actually pretty good at it). I like Fractals well enough, but I haven’t done so many the RNG has dropped any of the weapon skins on me. I don’t have any of the luminescent armor despite having thousands of hours played. I still haven’t killed Liadri, but I understand that its a requirement to have the miniature and wear the title.

That stuff may be true now, but that doesn’t mean it has to remain true forever, that they cannot fix those things as well. Two wrongs don’t make a right, a dozen wrongs don’t justify a 13th.

I find Neitzsche to be mostly a morose twit, but he did get one thing right – to truly want something is to want to take all the steps required to get it. Otherwise you’re just fantasizing about it.

Perhaps so, but this is a fantasy game, embrace the fantasy.

Valento.9852:

Testudo.4620:

ummm i don’t understand why i don’t get to play a game i didn’t pay for?

That’s weird. Does it mean the devs have been working really hard to bring such content? I thought it just popped out of thin air! /mindblown

Oh, you never would believe where that new content came from
It’s made by little elves in a hollow tree.
No, you never would believe where those new raids come from
They’re made by magic elves and its completely free!

I dont like everything be account level, because its ALT unfriendly.

crafting is account level
raids ?
bank
daily

I wish it was a bit more alt friendly, because I love leveling alts, but if its so much account based, not much mood for it.

ps: Can we have 2 accounts? I mean, if I buy the game twice and in a point I email to me stuff (from one account to another), is it going to be bad for the game rules? I am new in gw2… So still learning.

This is no different than in any other MMO – new content requires buying the expansion it comes with.

Raids are new to GW2. The first raids will take place in the new lands. This should not be unexpected.

Raids may be expanded into the older content in the future, after ANet has had time to tweak and get a handle on how to design and balance raids in HoT.

Oyranos.9750:

I dont like everything be account level, because its ALT unfriendly.

crafting is account level
raids ?
bank
daily

I wish it was a bit more alt friendly, because I love leveling alts, but if its so much account based, not much mood for it.

ps: Can we have 2 accounts? I mean, if I buy the game twice and in a point I email to me stuff (from one account to another), is it going to be bad for the game rules? I am new in gw2… So still learning.

yes. There’s no policy against having multiple accoutns as far as I know, though i’m not sure about running two accounts at the same time (e.g. multiboxing)

account level also makes it schedule-enforcing.

one of the things I wish we could stay away from is “Hey, everyone come on at 6:00 PM Wed if you want to raid!”

Cavalier.9064:

It’s threads like this one that are an absolute cancer to this game’s forum and community.

I dunno.

Seems like it brought a large amount of the community together in common concensus of a particular subject. Too bad it had to be such a negative subject.

what cancer ……………….?

We still don’t know how they are implementing this. They might even have a token system. If the first boss is easier and more casual player friendly, it might be possible for the more casual folks to get some goodies too. It will take longer of course, but it might be possible. From what I remember I could have sworn they said each boss will get more difficult. That doesn’t mean the first one will be a walk in the park, but it might be doable for pugs/casual folks.

we need something like LOTRO’s fellowship maneuver ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlLLbdgBVEM

xarallei.4279:

We still don’t know how they are implementing this. They might even have a token system. If the first boss is easier and more casual player friendly, it might be possible for the more casual folks to get some goodies too. It will take longer of course, but it might be possible. From what I remember I could have sworn they said each boss will get more difficult. That doesn’t mean the first one will be a walk in the park, but it might be doable for pugs/casual folks.

Just let the raiders have their exclusive rewards. My only gripe is that the instant stat-swapping function for armor will be exclusive. Hopefully Anet will make new legendary rewards for each game mode in future expansions. Maybe the legendary armor of the next expansion will be an open world PvE reward while the weapons will be from the raids.

I don’t believe that it would be wise to make all types of legendaries available for all game modes just yet. There needs to be material for the other expansions.

xarallei.4279:

We still don’t know how they are implementing this. They might even have a token system. If the first boss is easier and more casual player friendly, it might be possible for the more casual folks to get some goodies too. It will take longer of course, but it might be possible. From what I remember I could have sworn they said each boss will get more difficult. That doesn’t mean the first one will be a walk in the park, but it might be doable for pugs/casual folks.

That’s a very good point, and would give everyone a reason to not skip those fights even if they can.

I’ve been thinking that maybe the “trash” enemies would have a small chance of dropping something of use to making the legendary armors. If anyone played CoH, then the term “Incarnate Thread” captures the idea.

Ohoni and others who do not favor exclusive rewards:

Would it hugely bother you if in say 6 months to a year, they come up with an equivalently difficult and time consuming process in another type of game play and awarded legendary armor pieces that were of a different skin?

And each area having its own skin is already par for the course for a lot of end game gear (exotics and/or ascended). Fractals have their own skin items. Teq has their own skin items. PvP has their own skin items. WvW has their own skin items. PvE has a ton of unique skins. The only area that does not have exclusive items are dungeons thanks to the dungeon reward tracks in PvP.

Do you see a lot of people rubbing the Fractal tonic in peoples’ faces? Because that is a very rare Fractal level 50 reward that has a drop rate about that of a precursor from the mystic forge apparently. Which to me says that the assumption that the exclusive rewards will suddenly turn this community bad is a bit unfounded. Not saying it won’t happen, but not saying it will happen either.

We still don’t know how they are implementing this. They might even have a token system. If the first boss is easier and more casual player friendly, it might be possible for the more casual folks to get some goodies too.

The thing is, that might actually involve more raiding than just beating the thing. If I’m going to be raiding then I’d rather just beat the thing for full credit, but I really don’t want to be raiding at all, ever, so I’m looking for alternate methods that allow people to work towards those rewards without having to even start a raid (aside from maybe running it once like dungeon story mode).

I don’t believe that it would be wise to make all types of legendaries available for all game modes just yet. There needs to be material for the other expansions.

If they want to add content for later expansions, they can just add new versions of the armor. They already have one of each weapon as Legendaries (three GSs), but that isn’t stopping them from starting in on a second set with HoT.

Would it hugely bother you if in say 6 months to a year, they come up with an equivalently difficult and time consuming process in another type of game play

It would be better than nothing, but less than we deserve. We shouldn’t have to wait six months to start on a time consuming process. If it’s a time consuming process then we should be able to start immediately, if they make us wait six months to start then the process should be relatively quick to complete.

I think in practical terms, I’m fine with “raiders get it first,” but the first non-raiders should be earning the gear around 1-2 months after the first raiders start getting it, not 6-12 months later.

and awarded legendary armor pieces that were of a different skin?

This part is a definite “no.” It has to be the same skin or there’s no point. Now it’s possible that the alternative skin would look better to me than the original, in which case, I wouldn’t personally mind that much, but on principle each player should be able to get the version they want to have, and there’s no “fair” system for saying that one group can only get version A while the other group can only get version B and expect not to have members of each group upset about which version they were arbitrarily assigned.

And each area having its own skin is already par for the course for a lot of end game gear (exotics and/or ascended). Fractals have their own skin items. Teq has their own skin items. PvP has their own skin items. WvW has their own skin items. PvE has a ton of unique skins. The only area that does not have exclusive items are dungeons thanks to the dungeon reward tracks in PvP.

Yes, and all of those should continue to evolve as well, and hopefully will.

Do you see a lot of people rubbing the Fractal tonic in peoples’ faces? Because that is a very rare Fractal level 50 reward that has a drop rate about that of a precursor from the mystic forge apparently.

No, but that isn’t a skin, it’s a tonic. Do raiders want a unique tonic? I’d be fine with them having a unique tonic. Heck, for that matter, if they want a unique Outfit, I’d be totally fine with that too, just not armor skins.

Which to me says that the assumption that the exclusive rewards will suddenly turn this community bad is a bit unfounded. Not saying it won’t happen, but not saying it will happen either.

It’s already happening. In case you haven’t noticed, we’ve already had several examples of it in this thread alone.

Ohoni.6057:

We still don’t know how they are implementing this. They might even have a token system. If the first boss is easier and more casual player friendly, it might be possible for the more casual folks to get some goodies too.

The thing is, that might actually involve more raiding than just beating the thing. If I’m going to be raiding then I’d rather just beat the thing for full credit, but I really don’t want to be raiding at all, ever, so I’m looking for alternate methods that allow people to work towards those rewards without having to even start a raid (aside from maybe running it once like dungeon story mode).

I don’t believe that it would be wise to make all types of legendaries available for all game modes just yet. There needs to be material for the other expansions.

If they want to add content for later expansions, they can just add new versions of the armor. They already have one of each weapon as Legendaries (three GSs), but that isn’t stopping them from starting in on a second set with HoT.

Would it hugely bother you if in say 6 months to a year, they come up with an equivalently difficult and time consuming process in another type of game play

It would be better than nothing, but less than we deserve. We shouldn’t have to wait six months to start on a time consuming process. If it’s a time consuming process then we should be able to start immediately, if they make us wait six months to start then the process should be relatively quick to complete.

I think in practical terms, I’m fine with “raiders get it first,” but the first non-raiders should be earning the gear around 1-2 months after the first raiders start getting it, not 6-12 months later.

and awarded legendary armor pieces that were of a different skin?

This part is a definite “no.” It has to be the same skin or there’s no point. Now it’s possible that the alternative skin would look better to me than the original, in which case, I wouldn’t personally mind that much, but on principle each player should be able to get the version they want to have, and there’s no “fair” system for saying that one group can only get version A while the other group can only get version B and expect not to have members of each group upset about which version they were arbitrarily assigned.

And each area having its own skin is already par for the course for a lot of end game gear (exotics and/or ascended). Fractals have their own skin items. Teq has their own skin items. PvP has their own skin items. WvW has their own skin items. PvE has a ton of unique skins. The only area that does not have exclusive items are dungeons thanks to the dungeon reward tracks in PvP.

Yes, and all of those should continue to evolve as well, and hopefully will.

Do you see a lot of people rubbing the Fractal tonic in peoples’ faces? Because that is a very rare Fractal level 50 reward that has a drop rate about that of a precursor from the mystic forge apparently.

No, but that isn’t a skin, it’s a tonic. Do raiders want a unique tonic? I’d be fine with them having a unique tonic. Heck, for that matter, if they want a unique Outfit, I’d be totally fine with that too, just not armor skins.

Which to me says that the assumption that the exclusive rewards will suddenly turn this community bad is a bit unfounded. Not saying it won’t happen, but not saying it will happen either.

It’s already happening. In case you haven’t noticed, we’ve already had several examples of it in this thread alone.

I haven’t seen enough to say that it has started making the community bad. There were already jerks in the game that were making themselves known. They were going to continue to do so no matter what happens.

And we’ve heard that the raid part is only a part of the requirements for the legendary armor. During the 6 months, you could be gathering those items.

So you have a problem with the WvW skins? The Teq skins? The PvP skins? The PvE skins (PvP players who hate PvE can’t get them after all without doing something they hate)? What skins do you like? Do you only like the ones you can buy on the TP? Because all non-sellable skins aren’t available in all game modes. And if it’s not available by EVERY play mode and not sellable, it’s exclusive.

Will you hate the new legendary weapons if the requirements aren’t something you can do in any aspect of the game you like? As they won’t be sellable and someone may like the new skin better than the old skin.

The tonic was to show you that if there were people who would take rare stuff that’s only available in one mode and show off to go “Na na na na na, look what I got that you don’t got” they’d have gotten it and would be showing it off. Or you’d be hearing them complain that they can’t get it. And I don’t see a lot of that.

Seera.5916:

Ohoni and others who do not favor exclusive rewards:

Would it hugely bother you if in say 6 months to a year, they come up with an equivalently difficult and time consuming process in another type of game play and awarded legendary armor pieces that were of a different skin?

Yes, because to me it’s the skin that’s important, not the rarity of the armor. I’d be fine with it being exclusive to raids for six months to a year, though, and then moving to standard methods of gain while a new skin is released as raid-only, with the understanding that the pattern will continue.

However, I also want the term “Legendary” to really mean something. I’m okay with obtaining Legendary ANYTHING requiring raids, so long as they also require an equally large investment in most other areas of the game. So, for the legendary armor, I’m okay with it needing raids. But for the other rewards, I would like to see them eventually move to non-raid while new raids introduce new rewards to replace them.

The idea behind a full zerker group is to do so much dps, that the fight mechanics dont matter. If you’ve seen these groups fail to kill a boss fast enough, you spend most of the remaining fight trying to rez them because they repeatedly go downed.

Hopefully the raid bosses will have mechanics that cant be ignored, and enough health to void the use of this terrible “meta”

I haven’t seen enough to say that it has started making the community bad. There were already jerks in the game that were making themselves known. They were going to continue to do so no matter what happens.

Yes, but this action is rewarding and validating those jerks. “You were right jerks, here’s a prize, carry on.” They should have instead taken a stand against them. “No, you don’t get what you want, play the game with everyone else or go play something else.”

And we’ve heard that the raid part is only a part of the requirements for the legendary armor. During the 6 months, you could be gathering those items.

It really depends on how they do it, but everything they’ve said on the matter sounds bad. If there’s some silver lining here that we’re missing then why in heaven’s name wouldn’t they be shouting about that to the rafters already? What sort of community relations malpractice could account for that?

So you have a problem with the WvW skins? The Teq skins? The PvP skins? The PvE skins (PvP players who hate PvE can’t get them after all without doing something they hate)?

Yes.

What skins do you like? Do you only like the ones you can buy on the TP? Because all non-sellable skins aren’t available in all game modes. And if it’s not available by EVERY play mode and not sellable, it’s exclusive.

I accept them all to some degree, but most could use some improvement. I believe that all the current methods of earning things can stay, but that more methods should be made available for all of them. As an example, Teq gear can only be found as a random drop off Teq kills. I believe each kill should also guarantee a few tokens, and these can add up to buy the specific weapon you want. I also believe that certain events in Sparkfly Fen should drop Teq tokens (less of them though). I also believe you should be able to trade in tokens from dungeons, or from fractals, for these Teq tokens (at a suitable exchange rate that makes these less efficient methods of earning them). I also believe there should be PvE reward tracks, one of which could be the Tequatl Track, and progressing it earns you Teq-themed rewards, but you can progress it by running content in any zone.

So basically, I think they should balance things out so that the current methods still work, and are still the most efficient methods of working towards those rewards, but that as many alternatives should be available as they can possibly create, and these should be options for people that do not wish to do the primary activity.

Will you hate the new legendary weapons if the requirements aren’t something you can do in any aspect of the game you like? As they won’t be sellable and someone may like the new skin better than the old skin.

Too many unknowns to make any reasonable judgement, but it would be highly likely given recent trends.

The tonic was to show you that if there were people who would take rare stuff that’s only available in one mode and show off to go “Na na na na na, look what I got that you don’t got” they’d have gotten it and would be showing it off. Or you’d be hearing them complain that they can’t get it. And I don’t see a lot of that.

That really isn’t the issue. The issue is with people who say “I enjoy raiding, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you raid too. Don’t want to raid? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t raid? Too bad, git gud and raid anyways. Raiding is Mother, Raiding is Father, Raiding is ALL!”

Why should players that enjoy raiding deserve to be rewarded over those who don’t?

Seera.5916:

Ohoni and others who do not favor exclusive rewards:

Would it hugely bother you if in say 6 months to a year, they come up with an equivalently difficult and time consuming process in another type of game play and awarded legendary armor pieces that were of a different skin?

Personally, it would bother me.

If Arenanet gave away the Heritage armor sets for free just because it’s 3 years later, I would be upset. That skin is there to show that I have done a bunch of stuff in Guild Wars 1. That game is still running, so go play Eye of the North if you want it.

Same thing for raider rewards. Prestige skins are there to represent their exploits in the game’s world, so if you want the items, do what they did.

What I would be okay with would be if they made a slightly modified version of the skin and made that one easier to obtain. So you can still tell who did the raid and who didn’t.

I think a few players got used to having access to all the skins due to Guild Wars 2’s failure to provide players with enough prestige skins, but the game was clearly advertised as rewarding with such skins, just like Guild Wars 1 did.

I think they realized their failure to have enough prestige skins by 2014 when they put those those new PvP and LS armor sets, and with Heart of Thorns’ legendary armors it looks like they’re finally getting on with the program. I expect the 2 new armor sets announced on the website to be prestige skins rewarding specific feats.

Ohoni.6057:

I haven’t seen enough to say that it has started making the community bad. There were already jerks in the game that were making themselves known. They were going to continue to do so no matter what happens.

Yes, but this action is rewarding and validating those jerks. “You were right jerks, here’s a prize, carry on.” They should have instead taken a stand against them. “No, you don’t get what you want, play the game with everyone else or go play something else.”

And we’ve heard that the raid part is only a part of the requirements for the legendary armor. During the 6 months, you could be gathering those items.

It really depends on how they do it, but everything they’ve said on the matter sounds bad. If there’s some silver lining here that we’re missing then why in heaven’s name wouldn’t they be shouting about that to the rafters already? What sort of community relations malpractice could account for that?

So you have a problem with the WvW skins? The Teq skins? The PvP skins? The PvE skins (PvP players who hate PvE can’t get them after all without doing something they hate)?

Yes.

What skins do you like? Do you only like the ones you can buy on the TP? Because all non-sellable skins aren’t available in all game modes. And if it’s not available by EVERY play mode and not sellable, it’s exclusive.

I accept them all to some degree, but most could use some improvement. I believe that all the current methods of earning things can stay, but that more methods should be made available for all of them. As an example, Teq gear can only be found as a random drop off Teq kills. I believe each kill should also guarantee a few tokens, and these can add up to buy the specific weapon you want. I also believe that certain events in Sparkfly Fen should drop Teq tokens (less of them though). I also believe you should be able to trade in tokens from dungeons, or from fractals, for these Teq tokens (at a suitable exchange rate that makes these less efficient methods of earning them). I also believe there should be PvE reward tracks, one of which could be the Tequatl Track, and progressing it earns you Teq-themed rewards, but you can progress it by running content in any zone.

So basically, I think they should balance things out so that the current methods still work, and are still the most efficient methods of working towards those rewards, but that as many alternatives should be available as they can possibly create, and these should be options for people that do not wish to do the primary activity.

Will you hate the new legendary weapons if the requirements aren’t something you can do in any aspect of the game you like? As they won’t be sellable and someone may like the new skin better than the old skin.

Too many unknowns to make any reasonable judgement, but it would be highly likely given recent trends.

The tonic was to show you that if there were people who would take rare stuff that’s only available in one mode and show off to go “Na na na na na, look what I got that you don’t got” they’d have gotten it and would be showing it off. Or you’d be hearing them complain that they can’t get it. And I don’t see a lot of that.

That really isn’t the issue. The issue is with people who say “I enjoy raiding, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you raid too. Don’t want to raid? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t raid? Too bad, git gud and raid anyways. Raiding is Mother, Raiding is Father, Raiding is ALL!”

Why should players that enjoy raiding deserve to be rewarded over those who don’t?

And those jerks would just find something else to use if not a skin. A tonic. A title. Pulling BS claims of insane clear times. Jerks will be jerks no matter what. The ones who would use the skins to be jerks to those who can’t raid or won’t raid, would use the tonics or the titles or whatever other unique reward there is.

So you do support run around afk and press 1 to get rewards. That’s all it would take for teq tokens coming from random mobs in Sparkfly. Yet you claimed otherwise in another thread. Random mobs aren’t teq. They aren’t Teq skins if you get them off killing hylek or risen. They lose what makes them Teq skins. Then they’re Sparkfly skins. Then someone who hates Sparkfly will go: they should drop in Queensdale because I hate Sparkfly. You changed the tokens to drop from just teq to any mob in Sparkfly. They should be available in all maps because not everyone wants to play in a specific map all day everyday if they want an item that relies on RNG to drop.

And don’t say no one will ask for it, because someone would (and no, I’m not saying you would ask for it or that you would support it). And given some of the complaints I’ve seen on this forum, I wouldn’t be surprised if the thread had tons of people agreeing (and disagreeing).

Legendary weapons require you to do a lot of things to make one (I do not like that the current set is tradeable and am glad the new ones aren’t). Crafting, WvW or AP hunting (some people’s internet can’t handle zergs), Dungeons or PvP (given that legendary weapons can now be used in PvP, offering up the alternative makes sense as both areas are places where 5 players have to play as a team), massive amounts of farming and/or luck (depending on how you obtain the precursor, too early to tell definitively on precursor collections).

To figure that Legendary armor won’t require you to a lot of things in the game is pushing it. They might have it where you get the headpiece from Raiding and that’s all we start off with. Then dungeons/Fractals get gloves. PvP gets boots. WvW gets leggings. Open world PvE gets shoulders. World Bosses get the chest. Where as long as you do a few options, you can get a fair amount of legendary armor. But to get the whole set, you have to do it all.

Then when the new set comes out, you shuffle it around. So if you stick around long enough as well, you can get a mismatched set of complete legendary armor.

We don’t know yet, so calling it the worst thing to happen to the game at this point is premature.

That really isn’t the issue. The issue is with people who say “I enjoy raiding, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you raid too. Don’t want to raid? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t raid? Too bad, git gud and raid anyways. Raiding is Mother, Raiding is Father, Raiding is ALL!”

I could easily go: “I enjoy fractals, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you play fractals too. Don’t want to play fractals? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t play fractals? Too bad, git gud and play fractals anyways. Fractals is Mother, Fractals is Father, Fractals is ALL!”

So no, I’m not buying that jerks won’t be jerks over skins but not tonics if both have equal rarity (to the player not to ANet).

Bearhugger.4326:

Seera.5916:

Ohoni and others who do not favor exclusive rewards:

Would it hugely bother you if in say 6 months to a year, they come up with an equivalently difficult and time consuming process in another type of game play and awarded legendary armor pieces that were of a different skin?

Personally, it would bother me.

If Arenanet gave away the Heritage armor sets for free just because it’s 3 years later, I would be upset. That skin is there to show that I have done a bunch of stuff in Guild Wars 1. That game is still running, so go play Eye of the North if you want it.

Same thing for raider rewards. Prestige skins are there to represent their exploits in the game’s world, so if you want the items, do what they did.

What I would be okay with would be if they made a slightly modified version of the skin and made that one easier to obtain. So you can still tell who did the raid and who didn’t.

I think a few players got used to having access to all the skins due to Guild Wars 2’s failure to provide players with enough prestige skins, but the game was clearly advertised as rewarding with such skins, just like Guild Wars 1 did.

I think they realized their failure to have enough prestige skins by 2014 when they put those those new PvP and LS armor sets, and with Heart of Thorns’ legendary armors it looks like they’re finally getting on with the program. I expect the 2 new armor sets announced on the website to be prestige skins rewarding specific feats.

I wouldn’t care if they put GW1 skins or any other skin in the game as reward for something you do in GW2. Most of the people who want exclusive gear only want to brag about it. Why does one need to know if someone has done a raid and if one hasn’t? Sounds like someone needs to prove other people that they’re better than others in the game but why? That I really can’t understand.

I know we still have the problem with missing gods but since the devs have never commented on that thopic and since legendary armor is announced now i just thought i could ask again:
Will we ever get UW and FoW back? I mean, FoW at least was the place where we had to forge legendary armor in GW1…
So… maybe? Pls?

What I would be okay with would be if they made a slightly modified version of the skin and made that one easier to obtain. So you can still tell who did the raid and who didn’t.

Why does that matter though? If the “little change” makes the skin less visually appealing to someone, then why should they care whether you can tell what content they’ve done? Have achievement-check for that.

And those jerks would just find something else to use if not a skin. A tonic. A title. Pulling BS claims of insane clear times. Jerks will be jerks no matter what. The ones who would use the skins to be jerks to those who can’t raid or won’t raid, would use the tonics or the titles or whatever other unique reward there is.

Ok, fine, so let’s not have unique skin rewards, and let them be jerks about stuff nobody actually cares about instead. Problem solved. I don’t care that they’re being jerks, I care that their jerkiness is being used as an excuse to not make skins available to those who want them.

So you do support run around afk and press 1 to get rewards. That’s all it would take for teq tokens coming from random mobs in Sparkfly. Yet you claimed otherwise in another thread.

I never said they would drop from random mobs, I said that they would result from certain events. Maybe the Krait lab, maybe the champ troll, maybe the Risen Juggernaut, and maybe there would be rules added to ensure more actual participation. In any case, the amount you got would be slightly less than with Teq, so over time, you would have to put forth at least as much effort as someone who’s barely conscious inside a Teq zerg.

They lose what makes them Teq skins. Then they’re Sparkfly skins.

No, they’re still Teq skins, they can just be earned from the zone he’s in. Don’t act as if this all made perfect sense before and I’m ruining it. People are killing an undead dragon every four hours or so, and he might rarely drop a box, and you can open that box and pull out any weapon you want with a unique skin attached, this is not a perfectly logical sequence of events here, for which “but you can also buy them with tokens” is a bridge too far.

Then someone who hates Sparkfly will go: they should drop in Queensdale because I hate Sparkfly.

And you can. Queensdale would drop Behemoth tokens, which could be traded for Teq tokens at a rate of maybe 50:1 or 100:1. It would be a flexible system. Or you could just set your PvE reward track to Tequatl, and advance it in Queensdale if you prefer, just as a PvPer can set his reward track to CoF, and grind dungeon tokens on Kyhlo. Up to you.

To figure that Legendary armor won’t require you to a lot of things in the game is pushing it. They might have it where you get the headpiece from Raiding and that’s all we start off with.

Ok, look, to get a Legendary weapon, you need to run a dungeon (or PvP reward track), around eight times, for a total of maybe 4-8 hours. If we assume that the raids are easy enough that success is practically guaranteed each time you attempt it, then requiring players to run 4-8 hours of raiding to get legendary armor is not out of the question.

If, on the other hand, raids are harder than dungeons, and players can expect to waste their time on numerous attempts, or if it would take more than eight successful runs to get a set of Legendary armor, then no, it is not a reasonable condition on the same scale as Legendary weapons. I’d be willing to run a raid a few times to get one, but not if I’m intended to grind it out over weeks and months of play. If I’m going to grind something out over weeks and months of play, then I’d want it to be an activity that I actually enjoy.

I could easily go: “I enjoy fractals, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you play fractals too. Don’t want to play fractals? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t play fractals? Too bad, git gud and play fractals anyways. Fractals is Mother, Fractals is Father, Fractals is ALL!”

Yes, that would hypothetically be jerk behavior as well. Nobody should do that either.

Get over it! Zerker rocks, everything else should be banned or kicked out of the game!!!

Ohoni.6057:

What I would be okay with would be if they made a slightly modified version of the skin and made that one easier to obtain. So you can still tell who did the raid and who didn’t.

Why does that matter though? If the “little change” makes the skin less visually appealing to someone, then why should they care whether you can tell what content they’ve done? Have achievement-check for that.

And those jerks would just find something else to use if not a skin. A tonic. A title. Pulling BS claims of insane clear times. Jerks will be jerks no matter what. The ones who would use the skins to be jerks to those who can’t raid or won’t raid, would use the tonics or the titles or whatever other unique reward there is.

Ok, fine, so let’s not have unique skin rewards, and let them be jerks about stuff nobody actually cares about instead. Problem solved. I don’t care that they’re being jerks, I care that their jerkiness is being used as an excuse to not make skins available to those who want them.

So you do support run around afk and press 1 to get rewards. That’s all it would take for teq tokens coming from random mobs in Sparkfly. Yet you claimed otherwise in another thread.

I never said they would drop from random mobs, I said that they would result from certain events. Maybe the Krait lab, maybe the champ troll, maybe the Risen Juggernaut, and maybe there would be rules added to ensure more actual participation. In any case, the amount you got would be slightly less than with Teq, so over time, you would have to put forth at least as much effort as someone who’s barely conscious inside a Teq zerg.

They lose what makes them Teq skins. Then they’re Sparkfly skins.

No, they’re still Teq skins, they can just be earned from the zone he’s in. Don’t act as if this all made perfect sense before and I’m ruining it. People are killing an undead dragon every four hours or so, and he might rarely drop a box, and you can open that box and pull out any weapon you want with a unique skin attached, this is not a perfectly logical sequence of events here, for which “but you can also buy them with tokens” is a bridge too far.

Then someone who hates Sparkfly will go: they should drop in Queensdale because I hate Sparkfly.

And you can. Queensdale would drop Behemoth tokens, which could be traded for Teq tokens at a rate of maybe 50:1 or 100:1. It would be a flexible system. Or you could just set your PvE reward track to Tequatl, and advance it in Queensdale if you prefer, just as a PvPer can set his reward track to CoF, and grind dungeon tokens on Kyhlo. Up to you.

To figure that Legendary armor won’t require you to a lot of things in the game is pushing it. They might have it where you get the headpiece from Raiding and that’s all we start off with.

Ok, look, to get a Legendary weapon, you need to run a dungeon (or PvP reward track), around eight times, for a total of maybe 4-8 hours. If we assume that the raids are easy enough that success is practically guaranteed each time you attempt it, then requiring players to run 4-8 hours of raiding to get legendary armor is not out of the question.

If, on the other hand, raids are harder than dungeons, and players can expect to waste their time on numerous attempts, or if it would take more than eight successful runs to get a set of Legendary armor, then no, it is not a reasonable condition on the same scale as Legendary weapons. I’d be willing to run a raid a few times to get one, but not if I’m intended to grind it out over weeks and months of play. If I’m going to grind something out over weeks and months of play, then I’d want it to be an activity that I actually enjoy.

I could easily go: “I enjoy fractals, and so I plan to, and I expect to get cool unique loot from that, and you can’t have any of it unless you play fractals too. Don’t want to play fractals? Too bad, you can’t have that stuff. Can’t play fractals? Too bad, git gud and play fractals anyways. Fractals is Mother, Fractals is Father, Fractals is ALL!”

Yes, that would hypothetically be jerk behavior as well. Nobody should do that either.

Conversely, jerks shouldn’t be why exclusive rewards aren’t added or kept.

GW1 hall of monuments rewards should be kept exclusive. They are rewards for veterans of the game’s predecessor who spent hours playing that game to achieve various things, some of them difficult. The moment they make those rewards available to those who have never even played the game is the moment I stop playing and supporting the game. And I don’t even own GW1.

No, it would be Sparkfly armor because it’s no longer earned by doing teq. The armor has the name because that’s what you do to get it. And of the events were ever known, there would be an event train and we all know what happens when trains form. Heaven forbid some new player trigger an event out of order and disrupt the train. Another spot for jerks to be jerks. I wouldn’t say no to teq dropping tokens for teq stuff. And only teq stuff. No converting to other tokens.

You’re assuming the raids will be the dungeon equivalent. What if raids are the precursor equivalent? Then they could take ages to earn, even if they use a token system and they should. Especially of it’s built piece by piece. And it can’t be easier or cheaper than getting ascended either without angering players and rightfully so, legendary isn’t supposed to an advantage.

Exclusive things in games are not things that ruin games. If we can’t agree on that then we need to agree to disagree on this issue because neither of us is going to change the other’s mind.

GW1 hall of monuments rewards should be kept exclusive. They are rewards for veterans of the game’s predecessor who spent hours playing that game to achieve various things, some of them difficult. The moment they make those rewards available to those who have never even played the game is the moment I stop playing and supporting the game. And I don’t even own GW1.

Perhaps. I never raised Hall of Monuments as an issue, but there is an argument to be made for keeping those rewards exclusive. Still, those rewards were in place at launch, people knew what they were getting into. These new rewards are being added thre years after launch. “Oh, you’ve been playing for three years because you don’t like raids and this used to be a safe space from raids and raiding culture? Well too bad, because there are raids now and you can’t get the Legendary Armor without doing them. Raids!”

No, it would be Sparkfly armor because it’s no longer earned by doing teq.

So CoF armor is no longer CoF armor because you can earn it via PvP? It’d still be Teq skins, because it’s Tequatl themed, regardless of where you get it, just as Beaded weapons are Hylek themed, even though you can buy those on the TP.

You’re assuming the raids will be the dungeon equivalent. What if raids are the precursor equivalent? Then they could take ages to earn, even if they use a token system and they should.

Again, if they do take ages to earn via raiding then that would be the absolute worst case scenario, because it means that even players who have zero interest in raiding would have to spend dozens upon dozens of agonizing hours engaged in content that they do not enjoy, rather than spending that time actually having fun. For most players in that situation, they would burn out well before they actually got the reward, and either quit raiding and go back to other aspects of the game, just a little more sad, which would benefit no one, or they get so fed up that they quit entirely. The latter is less likely, but the reason most people do quit a game comes from too many straws being piled up on their backs, and this has the potential to be a doosey.

And it can’t be easier or cheaper than getting ascended either without angering players and rightfully so, legendary isn’t supposed to an advantage.

They can add in fixed costs as necessary. I mean, Legendary weapons only have a fixed cost of around 100.5g, but they have a practical cost in the thousands because they take fixed effort in some places, and market costs in others.

It apparently costs around 125g per suit of Ascended armor. Even if the raid component of these armors was made relatively effortless, they could at minimum require you to buy say 200g worth of materials to upgrade that to Legendary, and the costs would balance out. Or 300g, whatever. And it certainly can require a lot of time and effort to fully assemble, just as little of that time as possible, if any, should be spent inside a raid.

Exclusive things in games are not things that ruin games. If we can’t agree on that then we need to agree to disagree on this issue because neither of us is going to change the other’s mind.

Agreed. On the disagreeing part. Exclusive things definitely can ruin games, if they’re mishandled.

Unless of course certain bosses work like fractal instabilities. For example there’s a fractal instability where you take damage every time you crit. A whole zerk team will melt to a boss that does that.

We don’t know what it will be like, but we already know that Anet is cool with mixing things up. Zerk meta is no secret to them, if they want to break it for raids, they know how to do it. If they don’t care, then they don’t care.

Personally I’ll be doing all raids with guildies and we could care less what build you have. We’ll pick whatever build will get us through the boss successfully.

Ohoni.6057:

Agreed. On the disagreeing part. Exclusive things definitely can ruin games, if they’re mishandled.

While true, they have not been mishandled in this game. You said in another thread that rather than using slippery slope arguments someone should just state if they believe your idea was a cliff edge situation.
I believe your ideas would be a cliff edge situation, in which going over it would cause a large drop in player enjoyment and satisfaction leading to a large exodus of players.

If it was implement I can actually see the slippery slope occurring too though. If all skins were obtainable I can see some players going “well the reaper title would go really well with this outfit/necromancer but I don’t want to get 60 ranks in pvp, it should be obtainable elsewhere” And then titles would be the next target.

I don’t really condone OP in specifically calling you out, but I can understand why he did. You’ve made yourself into a characture/fanatic on the far left/right of an issue that can’t be reasoned with/bargained with or engaged in any form of meaningful discussion for the most part. You basically gave a rallying point for any group even mildly opposed to your ideas “hey look at that guy you don’t want to play his type of game right”.

To break down every group of players you’ve basically prevented support from (who might otherwise have liked some of the ideas)
-PvP players (high end mostly) where a large portion is about being literally better than another player and being uniquely rewarded and recognized for it.
-WvW players, who have gotten very few unique rewards and would vehemently defend the hero skins.
-Fractal players, who have worked hard for some recognition in their area of the game, who’d loose any status symbol.
-Veteran players who attended once off events, have seen this world grow/change and expected a little recognition for their participation
-Any player who has shown outstanding ability or done something impressive (as they would no longer get anything to reward/recognize that specific accomplishment)
-Players who like to show off (this is the group you always focus on, although I don’t think they’re all bad, some are jerks and in your face, but others just like the passive recognition which I think is acceptable given that an MMO/game is at least somewhat about showing off).

And by far the largest group: (a majority of the playerbase I suspect)
-Any player who likes being specifically reward for what they did (not just their playtime or relative difficulty)

I’ve been helping new players all this week, and most of them have been looking forward to hunting unique rewards in different areas of game-play, I even had one player who was disappointed that JP’s didn’t have their own unique reward other than AP. The specific hunt for the specific reward is a gameplay staple that a large number of players enjoy.

Only a fool would believe there won’t be any RNG involved, sorry. Even if it’s to a less extent, it will most likely make its way there.

Ohoni.6057:

Well Ohoni, looks like your dream of non exclusive rewards are shattered

Yeah, it’s not looking good, but I’m glad you’re happy that I’m sad, that’s the mark of a truly great person.

We can only hope that they continue to iterate on this design and make these rewards available through other means (aside from the trophies, which can stay).

Why wouldn’t you have exclusive rewards for specific content? Even Tequatl has exclusive rewards, and Fractals, and Dungeons, and Dry Top, and the Silverwastes… What would be the purpose of not having exclusive rewards?

It allows people who want those rewards to earn them, even if they have no interest in Raids. Raids are, by their nature, exclusionary content that most players are not intended to complete. By locking these rewards behind raiding, it puts them off limits for large portions of the players, which is antithetical to GW2’s basic philosophy of inclusion. They’ve turned to the Dark Side.

I’m not happy at your sadness. I have no emotional attachments to your feelings. This is a gaming forum, most ppl don’t care about how your “emotions”.

However I’m happy anet got this right.
Only you and a small handful of ppl believe anet has turned to the “dark side”….

You can keep making ridiculous assumptions of “most players are locked out of raids.. most players won’t do them, etc etc etc”….you don’t know what the majority of the players will do or don’t do. You don’t have ANY STATISTICS for this game because there are NONE when it comes to raids. It’s a “wait and see”, in terms of how raids will be in gw2.

You on the other hand have already set out to believe only 5-10% of the population will even attempt it. Keep being pessimistic, it shows who you truly are. You want rewards your way and only the way YOU FIND FUN. Anything else is junk and deserves to not receive unique rewards like WvW , PvP, dungs, raids, etc (basically you seem to find everything in this game unfun and you don’t want those modes getting exclusive items)

This game isn’t for you Ohoni. You are in the minority because you have such a selfish belief of "I want ALL rewards, MY WAY. Anything I don’t find fun, should not have exclusive rewards because I WANT THEM MY WAY " – Correct me if I’m wrong on that statement Ohoni. I know you have’t exactly typed that out, but thats what I interpret you keep wanting to say

Will res orbs be disabled in raids?

Or will beating a boss just be a fight of who has the most rez orbs in their inventory?

Gaile Gray.6029:

It’s really up to the devs. If they express the desire to have a separate forum, we could do that for them. If they feel that Raid feedback can be included in an existing forum, we’ll go that route. In other words: TBD.

That’s a no, then. The devs haven’t used the dungeon forum to interact with PvE players since Hrouda left, why would they start now?

Bitter sarcasm aside, I hope we do see some dev activity regarding raid development and support. If they just shove the instances out the door and forget about them like we’ve seen in the past, the exact same issues we see with the current content will recur.

Please learn from your mistakes, ANet.

That’s not creating deep combat or making people use their classes, though, it’s just a gimmick that puts people in different gear.

Would a Soldier Meta really be more satisfying than a Zerker Meta?