Instanced Raids Confirmed [merged]
There are plenty of rewards exclusive to open world pve that can’t be earned by raiding.
But one has more barriers to entry than others.
So you are fine with the concept and just haggling over price? Well Raiding is the price – pay or don’t pay – its up to you.
My first version of this was too harsh, but one of the advantages of the game to many professionals is that you can play it on an open schedule and in relatively small bites.
I’m happy to prioritize myself away from raids (I hate the way it seems to draw wamma be alpha-males), but I have empathy with the people who get annoyed that the ability to block off a few hours on a weekly schedule is the primary qualifier for special rewards.
This is content specifically designed for people who do have the time to spend in game, I think a lot of people in this thread are forgetting that.
The content is not designed for someone who has only 45mins and no guild to complete.
The is plenty more stuff out there for you, but not this.
They understand it extremely clearly, that’s why they’re complaining!
Instanced Raids Confirmed [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275
Except it isn’t exclusive. The content isn’t exclusive.
Everybody can do this content, and when you complete the content, you are rewarded for it.
Just like every other piece of content within the game. You do the content, which everyone is free to do, and when you complete it, you are given a reward for that content.It is by necessity and nature exclusive. The entire reason this content exists is because some players felt that the existing content was not exclusive enough. If literally anyone could do the raids, then you can bet the forums would be on fire with people demanding that they be made harder, until less people could complete them. I’m fine with that, I don’t need to complete the raids, so long as I have alternative methods for earning the rewards. If there are no alternative methods, then we’re coming after the gameplay next, and we’ll get those raids nerfed into oblivion. Pick your poison.
Or what about those players who might have all the skills to run a raid, in theory, but their life does not allow them that option. Perhaps they are only able to play during odd hours, or on odd days of the week where forming a raid group is impossible. Or perhaps they can only play for 15-30 minutes here and there. Or perhaps they can play, but need the ability to stop what they’re doing at a moment’s notice, to, say, prevent their child from killing himself, even if that might mean the raid group wipes. Couldn’t those players have other alternatives?
You seem to have a very skewed idea of what effort is.
If you don’t want to put the effort into getting those rewards, you aren’t going to get those rewards, and I think it’ll do you a lot of good to just accept that.
If you want legendary armor, I’m sure you’ll put the effort into doing the content to get it. Good luck!As I’ve said, I am perfectly willing to put forth just as much effort as any raider, I would just prefer it to be in an activity that I enjoy as much as a raider enjoys raiding. If you cannot understand that, then perhaps it is you who does not understand the meaning of the word “effort.”
But we aren’t talking about inability, we’re talking about refusal.
If you’re unable to move your character, use your characters skills, dodge roll, jump, press keys, target an opponent, then I’ll agree that you have an inability to complete raid content – but you also have an inability to play Guild Wars 2 at all. Arguably that’s all you need to do in order to complete raid content, and since we don’t know enough that would suggest otherwise, I’d suggest there’s no point even complaining about it.Let’s say that the parent provided a meal that the younger child hates, while the older child really enjoys that food. Is it really an equal burden being placed on them to each finish the meal? Or let’s say that the child is mildly allergic to the meal, but the parent does not care because he prefers the older child, so while the younger might cramp down the meal because he really wants that desert, it would cause him to break out in hives. Is that fair to him?
Please understand that this is the situation here, it is not just a matter of “well, they should try harder,” it’s that you asking players to engage in something that might be in great conflict with their lives, and which they have zero interest in, but that they might do anyways if they want the rewards bad enough. That is not “fair” to them when the other side of the coin is people having the time of their lives doing the same content, and laughing about all those “whiners” who want the same rewards for not doing that content.
If your really wanting to make a comparison, it would be more like this: There’s multiple choices of food, and the younger kid is complaining that all the food doesn’t suit him instead of simply eating the food he likes and leaving the other food the older brother likes to him.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
There are plenty of rewards exclusive to open world pve that can’t be earned by raiding.
But one has more barriers to entry than others.
So you are fine with the concept and just haggling over price? Well Raiding is the price – pay or don’t pay – its up to you.
My first version of this was too harsh, but one of the advantages of the game to many professionals is that you can play it on an open schedule and in relatively small bites.
I’m happy to prioritize myself away from raids (I hate the way it seems to draw wamma be alpha-males), but I have empathy with the people who get annoyed that the ability to block off a few hours on a weekly schedule is the primary qualifier for special rewards.
This is content specifically designed for people who do have the time to spend in game, I think a lot of people in this thread are forgetting that.
The content is not designed for someone who has only 45mins and no guild to complete.
The is plenty more stuff out there for you, but not this.
They understand it extremely clearly, that’s why they’re complaining!
Lol really?
“I refuse to play this game for more than 45mins at a time and if anyone gets something I can’t because of that I’m going to cry!”
^This is their stance? Cause raiding really shouldn’t be their first complaint destination.
Good.
Even if it is RNG like Fractal skins that won’t bother me.
As long as it is some doable RNG (so not like 1/10000) it is fine. Then RNG can add to the game.. every time the rush of “will it drop now”. That effect go’s away when it’s a completely unreasonable drop-rate but with doable RNG it will be a pro.
RNG, in theory, should be higher for Raids. The reason being simply there won’t be as many people who do -and complete- them as to what we see in the open-world zergs. Where you have thousands upon thousands of players running around in the Silverwastes day in and day out, you’ll have a few thousand players beat the raid boss(es) every week.
Increasing the RNG on the ‘good’ items seems like it’d be a good deal. It keeps people motivated while getting their Legendary Armor sets going, or they can choose to sell the items to make some money from those that don’t participate in the Raid content.
Think Voltaic Spears, Bone Dragon Staff’s, Draconic Aegis, etc. from GW1. That’s kind of how I see it.
I believe that rewards tied to specific content is a good idea. This should extend to essentially all aspects of the game. I might not want to raid but there should be nice rewards that show my dedication to other aspects of the game.
This has been the case for as long as the game has been live. Perhaps not to a sufficient extent though.
With the exception of PvP reward tracks you are not going to get dungeon armor without doing dungeons. Fractal skins ? Do fractals. World boss skins ? Do world bosses. And so on.
That said, I have always preferred bound on equip over bound on acquire. If I get drop X but hate its skin I would like to be able to get something I want by selling it. Similarly the idea of being able to trade my duplicate pieces for someone else’s duplicates appeals.
There are plenty of rewards exclusive to open world pve that can’t be earned by raiding.
But one has more barriers to entry than others.
So you are fine with the concept and just haggling over price? Well Raiding is the price – pay or don’t pay – its up to you.
My first version of this was too harsh, but one of the advantages of the game to many professionals is that you can play it on an open schedule and in relatively small bites.
I’m happy to prioritize myself away from raids (I hate the way it seems to draw wamma be alpha-males), but I have empathy with the people who get annoyed that the ability to block off a few hours on a weekly schedule is the primary qualifier for special rewards.
This is content specifically designed for people who do have the time to spend in game, I think a lot of people in this thread are forgetting that.
The content is not designed for someone who has only 45mins and no guild to complete.
The is plenty more stuff out there for you, but not this.
They understand it extremely clearly, that’s why they’re complaining!
Lol really?
“I refuse to play this game for more than 45mins at a time and if anyone gets something I can’t because of that I’m going to cry!”
^This is their stance? Cause raiding really shouldn’t be their first complaint destination.
people are complaining because they’re pouring exclusive rewards into content that’s (to use your phrasing, which I was reacting to) explicitly not designed for them. Of course people are annoyed at that.
It’s not a monolithic discussion, of course, but there are some variations. In the dark old days I knew (and I’m sure we’ve all known) people who were hurting their jobs and families because they had to hit the raid schedule.
Now people who make that decision (imo) have some pretty jacked up priorities, but one of the big draws of GW2, especially to older more established gamers is that that decision has never even been on the table.
Now it is, and some people are going to make some bad decisions, and more people are gonig to resent being (in their minds) punished for making the (and lets be honest for it) right decision.
~~~~
I’m sure people would still complain if this were a skill cap, people always complain. But there would be fewer, and it not being a skill cap, but instead being a scheduling cap, reasonably ruffles feathers.
If they give in to the whiny, childish, demanding and entitled of their playerbase on this and provide alternate routes to acquire raid armor – I’m out.
This is a line in the sand and I think anyone else who feels like myself, need to make that known.
I have doubts I’ll even do raids, but this is a subject that is important.
Different rewards for different gametypes. GW2 has the best system for this because it is all in looks, not stats.
Meaning it is never about ‘getting better’ but ‘looking prettier’ and no one has to look like a million bucks to smash heads in this game.
So if I want WvW Skin A I should have to go into WvW and do what the WvWers do to unlock that skin. Simple.
If I want that shiny new sPvP armor, I should have to do sPvP.
And If I want them raid cosmetics, I should have to do raids to get them.
I cannot stand entitled and demanding people in real life – I’ll be kitten ed if I’ll stand them on this.
I fully expect to quit this game over this. I know how aNet operates and they are a Mother Hen to these childish, entitled whiners. They’ll get their way.
It’s always the folks you disagree with that are whiny and entitled.
In all honesty, I think they’ll eventually at least put the tokens into PVP, but are going to wait a while. Almost all rewards now are available through both of the big ‘buckets’ (pve and pvp), and these will probably come.
It’s always the folks you disagree with that are whiny and entitled.
In all honesty, I think they’ll eventually at least put the tokens into PVP, but are going to wait a while. Almost all rewards now are available through both of the big ‘buckets’ (pve and pvp), and these will probably come.
No, it’s people who act whiny and entitled who are called whiny and entitled.
People I disagree with are simply called wrong.
Speaking as someone who is iffy on doing the raids – if they offer raid gear outside of raids, then raids are pointless and they might as well go the way of Dungeons.
If this is true, then regardless of whether they offer raid gear outside of raids, then “raids are pointless and they might as well go the way of Dungeons.” If raids can only sustain themselves if they have unique rewards, then they are not a gameplay feature worthy of development support.
In order to make the game environment interesting. Various item skin telling you what a given player has done and likes to do is good because it lets you bond with others in a way. It gives the game character. Overcoming difficulty and inconvenience makes the result more precious because it required dedication. You needed to put something of yourself into it.
As to the first point, it’s not relevant, because players might not even be wearing that gear (very few of my characters have anything approaching the “hardest to earn” gear on), and who cares what they’ve done anyways? You don’t need skins for that. As to the second, overcoming difficulty is a personal thing, it is between you and the game how much of that you want to do, and it’s none of my business how much of it you do any more than it’s your business how much I do. If you want to challenge yourself, then the game should provide opportunities for you to do so, but if someone else wants to challenge himself less, then the game should not punish him for that.
Dark Souls is a widely praised and critically acclaimed game because it’s based on the principle that challenges are good because they’re satisfying to overcome.
Yes, but Dark Souls is not for everyone. In fact it’s not for most people. And that’s ok, because it’s a standalone game. I’m not going to have less access to rewards in Assassin’s Creed or Arkham City just because I didn’t want to beat Dark Souls. But that’s what we’re talking about here, that I will have less access to rewards in GW2 because I have no interest in the “Dark Souls” portion of GW2. I’m not saying that the raids should not exist, if people actually want to run them. I just think that they should be there for people who want the challenge, nor for people that want the rewards, and the rewards should be available to everyone in various ways.
They deserve it because they put in the effort. No one is preventing you from putting in the same and most would probably be more than happy to help you to stand there with them.
and as I’ve said time, and time, and time, and time again, I’m perfectly willing to put in the effort, that is not at issue. I would just want to put that effort into an activity that I enjoy as much as raiders enjoy raiding.
Most of the people supporting raid exclusivity here, also support this, I’m more than happy to have exclusive rewards in each part of the game, it makes each player more unique based on what they can and can’t do. And makes each activitiy worthwhile as it’s no longer tied to its gold value.
Most people who take this stance are likely secure in either that the rewards for the activities they want to do will be better than the unique rewards from other activities, or that they have the skills to do any activities that might lock out an item that they want. Try to look at it from the perspective of someone who does not have the skills, time, or other circumstances that would allow them to pursue raiding effectively. Don’t imagine that any wall they put up, you can get past, instead imagine that they took an item you truly care about, and they locked it behind a wall that is impossible for you (yes, even you) to ever overcome. Try to empathize with human beings who are not yourself.
Capable of minding and developing a child without damage or loss of life = 90%~ of the adult population
Capable of managing a multinational company in a profitable and sustainable way = 1%~ of the adult population.
The man minding the children is easily replaceable and the skill is widely available, due to supply and demand his position is valued less.
The woman acting as CEO of a fortune 500 company or the like has a rarer skill it is in high demand and low supply so the value of her position is higher.
But this is a game, and the man minding the child is equally as valuable to the game company as the woman acting as CEO, and there are way more of him, so why should the game company coddle the CEO at the caregiver’s expense?
Yet in MMORPGs players have this weird idea of everything being available to every type of gameplay although this thing doesn’t exist in any other RPG, so why should it in MMORPGs?
Because single player RPGs tend to be more narrowly focused and balanced. With a single player RPG, if you like most of it, you likely like all of it. If you can complete most of it, you likely can complete all of it (and if you can’t, there are usually ways to cheat). If a game, like Dark Souls, is very difficult, then it is ALL difficult, and if you don’t like that level of difficulty then you won’t play the game at all. If a game is mostly rather easy, then it isn’t likely to have crazy extreme challenges in parts that cannot be overcome. That would be seen as a gross imbalance and would result in significant player backlash.
But MMOs appeal to a broader audience, and cover a wide spectrum of player skill levels and interests. Some players claim to want the challenge that raids would provide, and that’s fine, the content and challenge should be there for them, but that doesn’t mean that there should be rewards associated to those specific tasks that other players cannot earn.
And as for P&Ps, that is the worst example to make your case with, because if a P&P group has a DM that refuses to cater his campaigns to the play styles of the players, that is not a game that will run very long. If the players are interested in a casual monster-stomp and the DM keeps throwing them into Tomb of Horrors scenarios, they aren’t likely to come back.
There are plenty of rewards exclusive to open world pve that can’t be earned by raiding.
and this is not a numbers game. Even if 99% of the rewards were exclusive to open world pve and only 1% were exclusive to raiding, if the item a player wants is in that 1% then it is 100% of a problem. This is why no items should be exclusive to any content. They can be easier to get through specific content, faster, but there should still be alternatives if that “core” method is completely off the table for you.
In an MMO, that dragon can be tuned so that only maybe 1% of the players can actually do it, or that dragon can die and no one else can even try.Then you have a story to tell and a reward to show, you’re unique and out of the faceless masses.
I don’t care about you and your story, but if you want to tell it, that’s fine. But don’t use that as an excuse to lock off a cool skin from other players. If you want a trophy, they should give you a trophy, a big item you can activate and run around town showing off how great you are, but it shouldn’t come in the form of a weapon or armor skin.
Even before the game launched, exclusive rewards were already an established norm in the game.
Yes, but not raids. The exclusive rewards at launch were predicated on the belief that having to raid for them would never be necessary.
If your really wanting to make a comparison, it would be more like this: There’s multiple choices of food, and the younger kid is complaining that all the food doesn’t suit him instead of simply eating the food he likes and leaving the other food the older brother likes to him.
No, that does not really fit the analogy, because you’re leaving out the reward, which is the entire point. Nobody is really complain that raids exist, if raids exist and I’m free to ignore them without repercussions then I’m totally fine with that. The complaint is that by not doing the raids, by not eating one of the specific meal options rather than the others," I would be missing out on rewards that I might want, and that is the point I would prefer to see changed.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
If they give in to the whiny, childish, demanding and entitled of their playerbase on this and provide alternate routes to acquire raid armor – I’m out.
So you understand what we’re saying, that if they give in to the whiny, childish, demanding and entitled of their playerbase on this and provide exclusive loot to raiders, we’re put out too?
I cannot stand entitled and demanding people in real life – I’ll be kitten ed if I’ll stand them on this.
But, based on your other comments, this is exactly what you’re doing. You’re just standing with the opposing set of entitled and demanding people.
I fully expect to quit this game over this. I know how aNet operates and they are a Mother Hen to these childish, entitled whiners. They’ll get their way.
Ok, then in case I don’t see you again, goodbye. The game will go on, as there are a lot more non-raider types in the community than there are raiders.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Instanced Raids Confirmed [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275
Speaking as someone who is iffy on doing the raids – if they offer raid gear outside of raids, then raids are pointless and they might as well go the way of Dungeons.
If this is true, then regardless of whether they offer raid gear outside of raids, then “raids are pointless and they might as well go the way of Dungeons.” If raids can only sustain themselves if they have unique rewards, then they are not a gameplay feature worthy of development support.
In order to make the game environment interesting. Various item skin telling you what a given player has done and likes to do is good because it lets you bond with others in a way. It gives the game character. Overcoming difficulty and inconvenience makes the result more precious because it required dedication. You needed to put something of yourself into it.
As to the first point, it’s not relevant, because players might not even be wearing that gear (very few of my characters have anything approaching the “hardest to earn” gear on), and who cares what they’ve done anyways? You don’t need skins for that. As to the second, overcoming difficulty is a personal thing, it is between you and the game how much of that you want to do, and it’s none of my business how much of it you do any more than it’s your business how much I do. If you want to challenge yourself, then the game should provide opportunities for you to do so, but if someone else wants to challenge himself less, then the game should not punish him for that.
Dark Souls is a widely praised and critically acclaimed game because it’s based on the principle that challenges are good because they’re satisfying to overcome.
Yes, but Dark Souls is not for everyone. In fact it’s not for most people. And that’s ok, because it’s a standalone game. I’m not going to have less access to rewards in Assassin’s Creed or Arkham City just because I didn’t want to beat Dark Souls. But that’s what we’re talking about here, that I will have less access to rewards in GW2 because I have no interest in the “Dark Souls” portion of GW2. I’m not saying that the raids should not exist, if people actually want to run them. I just think that they should be there for people who want the challenge, nor for people that want the rewards, and the rewards should be available to everyone in various ways.
They deserve it because they put in the effort. No one is preventing you from putting in the same and most would probably be more than happy to help you to stand there with them.
and as I’ve said time, and time, and time, and time again, I’m perfectly willing to put in the effort, that is not at issue. I would just want to put that effort into an activity that I enjoy as much as raiders enjoy raiding.
Most of the people supporting raid exclusivity here, also support this, I’m more than happy to have exclusive rewards in each part of the game, it makes each player more unique based on what they can and can’t do. And makes each activitiy worthwhile as it’s no longer tied to its gold value.
Most people who take this stance are likely secure in either that the rewards for the activities they want to do will be better than the unique rewards from other activities, or that they have the skills to do any activities that might lock out an item that they want. Try to look at it from the perspective of someone who does not have the skills, time, or other circumstances that would allow them to pursue raiding effectively. Don’t imagine that any wall they put up, you can get past, instead imagine that they took an item you truly care about, and they locked it behind a wall that is impossible for you (yes, even you) to ever overcome. Try to empathize with human beings who are not yourself.
Capable of minding and developing a child without damage or loss of life = 90%~ of the adult population
Capable of managing a multinational company in a profitable and sustainable way = 1%~ of the adult population.
The man minding the children is easily replaceable and the skill is widely available, due to supply and demand his position is valued less.
The woman acting as CEO of a fortune 500 company or the like has a rarer skill it is in high demand and low supply so the value of her position is higher.But this is a game, and the man minding the child is equally as valuable to the game company as the woman acting as CEO, and there are way more of him, so why should the game company coddle the CEO at the caregiver’s expense?
Yet in MMORPGs players have this weird idea of everything being available to every type of gameplay although this thing doesn’t exist in any other RPG, so why should it in MMORPGs?
Because single player RPGs tend to be more narrowly focused and balanced. With a single player RPG, if you like most of it, you likely like all of it. If you can complete most of it, you likely can complete all of it (and if you can’t, there are usually ways to cheat). If a game, like Dark Souls, is very difficult, then it is ALL difficult, and if you don’t like that level of difficulty then you won’t play the game at all. If a game is mostly rather easy, then it isn’t likely to have crazy extreme challenges in parts that cannot be overcome. That would be seen as a gross imbalance and would result in significant player backlash.
But MMOs appeal to a broader audience, and cover a wide spectrum of player skill levels and interests. Some players claim to want the challenge that raids would provide, and that’s fine, the content and challenge should be there for them, but that doesn’t mean that there should be rewards associated to those specific tasks that other players cannot earn.
And as for P&Ps, that is the worst example to make your case with, because if a P&P group has a DM that refuses to cater his campaigns to the play styles of the players, that is not a game that will run very long. If the players are interested in a casual monster-stomp and the DM keeps throwing them into Tomb of Horrors scenarios, they aren’t likely to come back.
There are plenty of rewards exclusive to open world pve that can’t be earned by raiding.
and this is not a numbers game. Even if 99% of the rewards were exclusive to open world pve and only 1% were exclusive to raiding, if the item a player wants is in that 1% then it is 100% of a problem. This is why no items should be exclusive to any content. They can be easier to get through specific content, faster, but there should still be alternatives if that “core” method is completely off the table for you.
In an MMO, that dragon can be tuned so that only maybe 1% of the players can actually do it, or that dragon can die and no one else can even try.Then you have a story to tell and a reward to show, you’re unique and out of the faceless masses.
I don’t care about you and your story, but if you want to tell it, that’s fine. But don’t use that as an excuse to lock off a cool skin from other players. If you want a trophy, they should give you a trophy, a big item you can activate and run around town showing off how great you are, but it shouldn’t come in the form of a weapon or armor skin.
Even before the game launched, exclusive rewards were already an established norm in the game.
Yes, but not raids. The exclusive rewards at launch were predicated on the belief that having to raid for them would never be necessary.
If your really wanting to make a comparison, it would be more like this: There’s multiple choices of food, and the younger kid is complaining that all the food doesn’t suit him instead of simply eating the food he likes and leaving the other food the older brother likes to him.
No, that does not really fit the analogy, because you’re leaving out the reward, which is the entire point. Nobody is really complain that raids exist, if raids exist and I’m free to ignore them without repercussions then I’m totally fine with that. The complaint is that by not doing the raids, by not eating one of the specific meal options rather than the others," I would be missing out on rewards that I might want, and that is the point I would prefer to see changed.
Well ill give up on raids having unique rewards when the unique pvp rewards are 10x easier to get, oh and the LS trinket items. Oh and the fractal items. etc etc etc. You get the point. Your NOT entitled to easly be able to get everything in the game.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
(edited by TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275)
There are plenty of rewards exclusive to open world pve that can’t be earned by raiding.
But one has more barriers to entry than others.
Not it doesn’t
There are no additional gear tiers. The gear you have right now is raid ready. There are no contrived barriers to entry, just as there aren’t any in dungeons. You have to be able to do the content to get the reward, but there are no game systems in place preventing each and every player from having the mechanical ability to do so.
If you want the skin, you do the content, if the content is easy or fast, the skin is tradable. If the content is hard or extremely time consuming, it’s account bound. This has been the case in GW2 since release and it remains so.
Your barrier is your insistance that you should be able to get everything you want without doing anything you don’t want to. That isn’t how the game works, and isn’t how the game has ever worked. Some items are locked behind specific content, some are not. In fact the vast majority are not.
If you choose not to do so, you aren’t a second class citizen. You don’t have inferior stats. It doesn’t put you in some quasi-hell of having fallen behind so far that you’ll never have the chance to try and start that kind of content later.
It’s a skin, and one that’s likely even less exclusive than the triple trouble skins.
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
(edited by PopeUrban.2578)
I think the examples people are giving are hardly on-topic anymore…
The best example on the topic is every other RPG ever released so far in gaming history, that doesn’t use a 100% pure random loot system. In every such RPG ever created, items are rewards behind content, very very specific content. Usually the hardest dungeons and the hardest bosses also have the best possible loot. That’s how every RPG ever works, video game or even not video games, like p&p RPGs.
The game masters make dungeons, and they add dungeon-appropriate rewards for them. Usually in a lot of RPGs, since they are single player, and not meant to be repeated, you get the exact item the boss character is using. You want that Staff of Awesome Time Bending that is held by a powerful Lich Wizard? Well you will probably have to go and kill him, or infiltrate his castle and steal it. Farming his minions that plague the countryside won’t reward you the item no matter how many you kill.
You want that epic gemstone that is part of a Dragon’s hoard? You will probably have to infiltrate said hoard and either kill the Dragon or find another way to get it, still doing the actual content. Farming the random goblin army minions won’t give you the item.
Yet in MMORPGs players have this weird idea of everything being available to every type of gameplay although this thing doesn’t exist in any other RPG, so why should it in MMORPGs?
Because “Play your way” was one of the marketing promises? The ability to do what you ENJOY, not what was REQUIRED, and to be able to enjoy the top-tier rewards. Because for 3 years, we haven’t had raids with exclusive rewards, and quite honestly only a very small group of people even wanted them?
Now, ANet has drawn a line in the sand: raiders are more important than non-raiders, and get exclusive rewards that can’t be earned anywhere else. If that’s their decision, well, it’s their game, but its not the game I bought, and not a game I’m interested in supporting.
There have ALWAYS been exclusive rewards in this game. Liadri, Tequatl, Triple Trouble, Glorious Armor, living story armor, etc. Why is it you only have a problem when the exclusive rewards are from raids? This is getting ridiculous. People are just letting their blind hatred of WoW raids get to them and are not thinking things through. This isn’t like WoW where only raiders can get the best stat gear. Anet have always said they want the highest stat gear available to everyone and that has not changed, nor will it.
Well ill give up on raids having unique rewards when the unique pvp rewards are 10x easier to get, oh and the LS trinket items. Oh and the fractal items. etc etc etc. You get the point. Your NOT entitled to easly be able to get everything in the game.
Yeah, sure, let’s do all of that. Not a problem.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Instanced Raids Confirmed [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275
I think the examples people are giving are hardly on-topic anymore…
The best example on the topic is every other RPG ever released so far in gaming history, that doesn’t use a 100% pure random loot system. In every such RPG ever created, items are rewards behind content, very very specific content. Usually the hardest dungeons and the hardest bosses also have the best possible loot. That’s how every RPG ever works, video game or even not video games, like p&p RPGs.
The game masters make dungeons, and they add dungeon-appropriate rewards for them. Usually in a lot of RPGs, since they are single player, and not meant to be repeated, you get the exact item the boss character is using. You want that Staff of Awesome Time Bending that is held by a powerful Lich Wizard? Well you will probably have to go and kill him, or infiltrate his castle and steal it. Farming his minions that plague the countryside won’t reward you the item no matter how many you kill.
You want that epic gemstone that is part of a Dragon’s hoard? You will probably have to infiltrate said hoard and either kill the Dragon or find another way to get it, still doing the actual content. Farming the random goblin army minions won’t give you the item.
Yet in MMORPGs players have this weird idea of everything being available to every type of gameplay although this thing doesn’t exist in any other RPG, so why should it in MMORPGs?
Because “Play your way” was one of the marketing promises? The ability to do what you ENJOY, not what was REQUIRED, and to be able to enjoy the top-tier rewards. Because for 3 years, we haven’t had raids with exclusive rewards, and quite honestly only a very small group of people even wanted them?
Now, ANet has drawn a line in the sand: raiders are more important than non-raiders, and get exclusive rewards that can’t be earned anywhere else. If that’s their decision, well, it’s their game, but its not the game I bought, and not a game I’m interested in supporting.
“The ability to do what you ENJOY, not what was REQUIRED, and to be able to enjoy the top-tier rewards. "
You are able to enjoy what you want, and you aren’t required to do anything. As for being able to do what you enjoy and still enjoy the top tier rewards, I’m gonna need a dev quote to believe that. Until then……….
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
After a few weeks, when everyone is done with the open world PvE, if people don’t shift to raids and population starts to dwindle, Anet will follow the metrics and make them easier.
Instanced Raids Confirmed [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275
Well ill give up on raids having unique rewards when the unique pvp rewards are 10x easier to get, oh and the LS trinket items. Oh and the fractal items. etc etc etc. You get the point. Your NOT entitled to easly be able to get everything in the game.
Yeah, sure, let’s do all of that. Not a problem.
So you want a game where everything is given to you on a silver platter? Sad to say, this isn’t the game for you then if that’s what you want.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
If you want to challenge yourself, then the game should provide opportunities for you to do so, but if someone else wants to challenge himself less, then the game should not punish him for that.
Nobody will be punished for not playing raids just as nobody is punished for not playing dungeons or PvP or WvW. Exotics are good enough for anything and are attainable easily enough. Locking specific skins behind specific tasks is the least consequential thing they could have gone with. Legendary weapons, racial gear and dungeon items have been in the game from the start and haven’t been a problem at all.
After a few weeks, when everyone is done with the open world PvE, if people don’t shift to raids and population starts to dwindle, Anet will follow the metrics and make them easier.
I doubt it, simply because their model for Raids seems to cater towards players and guilds working together towards those challenges. There’s nothing stopping a hard-core raiding guild (those will come, probably from the same people doing speed-runs of current dungeon content) from advertising in map chat full-runs of a Raid Wing for a certain amount of gold.
This has two benefits, one is that the guild in question which has gotten the raid down to a science, gets an ‘enhanced’ challenge by bringing in someone utterly new which could complicate and make the raid artificially harder, and the one who comes into the raid can finally get to see how the raid works, the mechanics and so forth.
What this surmounts to is that Raids likely won’t be tuned down at all once knowledge and strategies start spilling forth to the public and as players themselves get better at understanding and executing mechanics, the overall ‘skill-level’ of players at raiding will improve to match the challenge.
Ideally, the raid wings could just enter farm status with a majority of end-game PvE guilds at the same time they announce a new raid coming forward. That way a cycle of end-game PvE content begins. The only difference is that there won’t be a vertical scale of gear progression, meaning that if they want to increase the difficulty of the following raids, A-Net will have to improve the difficulty of AI, Mechanics, etc.
…Given that they are capable of making Dragonhunter a thing, I won’t deny the creativity isn’t there.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
You want that epic gemstone that is part of a Dragon’s hoard? You will probably have to infiltrate said hoard and either kill the Dragon or find another way to get it, still doing the actual content. Farming the random goblin army minions won’t give you the item.
But Caliburn you can “just” pull from the stone.
Seriously, using P&P RPG as an example is really bad, because the reward structure not only can vary from the game to game, but also within campaign itself, depending on players, gm, and their placement on the narrativist, simulationist, gamist spectrum.
And you have even noticed that killing the dragon is not an actual requirement. You can sneak in and steal the gemstone, you can barter with the dragon or even sometimes persuade it to part with the treasure. You can persuade a party of adventures to get the jewel for you. You can persuade an army of the nearby kingdom to take the matter in their hand (and just be sure to be around to collect the gem in the right moment). You can even think of something more exotic, something nobody even expected. There are many ways you can approach the problem – enough to satisfy people that like different gaming playstyles.
In short, it’s exactly the opposite of what you are advocating.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Arenanet already said the rewards will be exclusive. While it is all possible to make different routes and such for it, they have not decided to do so.
So this arbritrary discussion about arbritrary content for arbritrary rewards should probably end. There’s no compromise and the discussion is going into the same circles over and over.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
There have ALWAYS been exclusive rewards in this game. Liadri, Tequatl, Triple Trouble, Glorious Armor, living story armor, etc. Why is it you only have a problem when the exclusive rewards are from raids?
Why do you think i don’t have problem with those?
Arenanet already said the rewards will be exclusive. While it is all possible to make different routes and such for it, they have not decided to do so.
So this arbritrary discussion about arbritrary content for arbritrary rewards should probably end. There’s no compromise and the discussion is going into the same circles over and over.
They have changed their minds about things before. That’s how we have raids in the first place, for example. So, it is “they have not decided yet to do so”. But they still may.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
Not it doesn’t
There are no additional gear tiers. The gear you have right now is raid ready. There are no contrived barriers to entry, just as there aren’t any in dungeons. You have to be able to do the content to get the reward, but there are no game systems in place preventing each and every player from having the mechanical ability to do so.
You’re just wrong on this. The time commitment and the organizational commitment are barriers to participation. Gear is far from the only way to limit access to a game system.
After a few weeks, when everyone is done with the open world PvE, if people don’t shift to raids and population starts to dwindle, Anet will follow the metrics and make them easier.
I think in general people are going to be pretty disappointed with the ‘difficulty’ thing.
Arenanet already said the rewards will be exclusive. While it is all possible to make different routes and such for it, they have not decided to do so.
So this arbritrary discussion about arbritrary content for arbritrary rewards should probably end. There’s no compromise and the discussion is going into the same circles over and over.
Except they want to have their voices heard, which is totally legitimate.
So you want a game where everything is given to you on a silver platter? Sad to say, this isn’t the game for you then if that’s what you want.
No, why do people keep reverting to that? Why does it have to be 100% or 0%, why can’t it be 50%? I want it to require effort, just effort in the methods that people prefer doing.
Nobody will be punished for not playing raids just as nobody is punished for not playing dungeons or PvP or WvW.
If there is legendary armor that you can’t get unless you do the raids, then you are being punished for not doing the raids. Feel free to argue that you’re fine with that, but don’t try to argue that it’s not happening.
Exotics are good enough for anything and are attainable easily enough.
Stats are irrelevant to this discussion, we’re talking about cosmetics, which are more important.
Legendary weapons, racial gear and dungeon items have been in the game from the start and haven’t been a problem at all.
Because they haven’t been locked behind raids. It’s the raids that are new.
There’s nothing stopping a hard-core raiding guild (those will come, probably from the same people doing speed-runs of current dungeon content) from advertising in map chat full-runs of a Raid Wing for a certain amount of gold.
And there’s nothing good about that either.
Arenanet already said the rewards will be exclusive. While it is all possible to make different routes and such for it, they have not decided to do so.
Yes, which is why we’re asking them to change that, which is something they could do. I really don’t understand why people keep insisting on pointing out obvious facts that everyone already understands.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
There have ALWAYS been exclusive rewards in this game. Liadri, Tequatl, Triple Trouble, Glorious Armor, living story armor, etc. Why is it you only have a problem when the exclusive rewards are from raids?
Why do you think i don’t have problem with those?
I wasn’t talking to you now was I. The person I was quoting was acting as if exclusives were some new thing to raiding. They aren’t.
Now if you want to argue that all exclusives should be eliminated, that’s another story (one I don’t agree with at all, but whatever). But if people are complaining about exclusives to raiding and are ok with exclusives elsewhere, then they are being irrational.
(edited by xarallei.4279)
Not it doesn’t
There are no additional gear tiers. The gear you have right now is raid ready. There are no contrived barriers to entry, just as there aren’t any in dungeons. You have to be able to do the content to get the reward, but there are no game systems in place preventing each and every player from having the mechanical ability to do so.
You’re just wrong on this. The time commitment and the organizational commitment are barriers to participation. Gear is far from the only way to limit access to a game system.
No. It is you who are wrong. It doesnt matter if you play 3 hours 4-5 times a week or 1 hour 2-3 times a week. Sooner or later, you will have the appropriate gear / build set up for this content. And likewise, there are plenty of guilds who include both dedicated and casual players in their ranks in this game.
The dedicated players will help you out significantly shortening the commitment on your part as wel las by the time you get to the content, they will have worked out all the strats and ways to complete it.
Your only issue here is that you want the rewards IMEMDIATELY in addition for doing nothing / being carried. And sorry, I do not agree with your personal demands. Your way of playing does not give you any right whatsoever, to demean and belittle players who enjoy exclusive content. Even if you paid for such, and you did not, otherwise it would have stated so in EULA / TOS, it would still not give you that right.
Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF
Fractal back pieces are still locked behind fractals, luminescent armor is still locked behind living story, glorious armor and the Balthazar back piece is still locked behind PvP, the new legendaries will remain locked behind their content for the expansion. These were specifically intended to be exclusive rewards for the people who chose to dedicate their time and effort to specific content, Anet isn’t going to change that because you want the reward but don’t want to do the content.
Dramen Maidria
Knights of ARES, Dragonbrand
Good times, good memories
Knights of ARES, Dragonbrand
Good times, good memories
But if people are complaining about exclusives to raiding and are ok with exclusives elsewhere, then they are being irrational.
Not really. If people don’t want to raid, but want the rewards exclusive to raids, then not wanting those rewards to be exclusive to raids is an extremely rational position for them to take, whether it’s one that you agree with or not, and regardless of their feelings on other rewards.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
This is the same topic over again, they have had tons of pages in the last one. Whatever needs to be said has been said. There is no need to carry on this discussion. They have seen the last topic, and based on what was said there and on what the company wants, they made this descission.
I’m not saying there aren’t good arguments for and against this, but please, let’s not drag this down to a point where every new person who shares their opinion gets a verbal assault just because you disagree with them. It’s not because you have a certain opinion that you need to suddenly prove everyone that thinks a little different wrong.
I personally think this is a non-issue because, as with ascended gear, A-net will find other ways to intoduce legendary armor, not the same skin tough. As for skins, i don’t think it’s the end of the world. I don’t play certain content in the game right now, hence i can’t get those skins. I honestly don’t care.
Again, i understand if you feel different, but please, try to be civil. If you’ve posted on nearly every page of this topic, or the last one, take a break from them (no matter what side of the argument you are on). Your opinion has been noted. Nothing you post now is going to make a difference, but it is going to discourage other people from giving their honest opinion. I’m not saying you can’t discuss this, but there are limits…
If you are looking for a cozy mature Dutch guild (EU) let me know.
(edited by Fox.3469)
Not it doesn’t
There are no additional gear tiers. The gear you have right now is raid ready. There are no contrived barriers to entry, just as there aren’t any in dungeons. You have to be able to do the content to get the reward, but there are no game systems in place preventing each and every player from having the mechanical ability to do so.
You’re just wrong on this. The time commitment and the organizational commitment are barriers to participation. Gear is far from the only way to limit access to a game system.
No. It is you who are wrong. It doesnt matter if you play 3 hours 4-5 times a week or 1 hour 2-3 times a week. Sooner or later, you will have the appropriate gear / build set up for this content. And likewise, there are plenty of guilds who include both dedicated and casual players in their ranks in this game.
The dedicated players will help you out significantly shortening the commitment on your part as wel las by the time you get to the content, they will have worked out all the strats and ways to complete it.
Your only issue here is that you want the rewards IMEMDIATELY in addition for doing nothing / being carried. And sorry, I do not agree with your personal demands. Your way of playing does not give you any right whatsoever, to demean and belittle players who enjoy exclusive content. Even if you paid for such, and you did not, otherwise it would have stated so in EULA / TOS, it would still not give you that right.
It… kitten . Do you really think the only barrier to being able to do this content is gear? The gear and likely the skill are never the issue in GW2. —well excepting fractals and Agony. The issue is that forming larger working groups and setting aside more time to get a raid together and do it are real barriers to players.
You can keep your personals to yourself though, you don’t know what the kitten I want.
Instanced Raids Confirmed [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275
So you want a game where everything is given to you on a silver platter? Sad to say, this isn’t the game for you then if that’s what you want.
No, why do people keep reverting to that? Why does it have to be 100% or 0%, why can’t it be 50%? I want it to require effort, just effort in the methods that people prefer doing.
Nobody will be punished for not playing raids just as nobody is punished for not playing dungeons or PvP or WvW.
If there is legendary armor that you can’t get unless you do the raids, then you are being punished for not doing the raids. Feel free to argue that you’re fine with that, but don’t try to argue that it’s not happening.
Exotics are good enough for anything and are attainable easily enough.
Stats are irrelevant to this discussion, we’re talking about cosmetics, which are more important.
Legendary weapons, racial gear and dungeon items have been in the game from the start and haven’t been a problem at all.
Because they haven’t been locked behind raids. It’s the raids that are new.
There’s nothing stopping a hard-core raiding guild (those will come, probably from the same people doing speed-runs of current dungeon content) from advertising in map chat full-runs of a Raid Wing for a certain amount of gold.
And there’s nothing good about that either.
Arenanet already said the rewards will be exclusive. While it is all possible to make different routes and such for it, they have not decided to do so.
Yes, which is why we’re asking them to change that, which is something they could do. I really don’t understand why people keep insisting on pointing out obvious facts that everyone already understands.
50% of what? But this is my point: Other content has exclusive rewards, what’s wrong with raids having exclusive rewards? Your saying you don’t want ANY content to have exclusive rewards?!? Or are you saying you just don’t like raids and you want the rewards but are fine with other stuff for some reason having exclusive rewards? If your answer is A, then I advise you go to a different game cause I highly doubt anet is suddenly gonna say screw you exclusive rewards to all its content. If it’s B, then you just chucked logic out the window. I don’t see any c, but if you got one please do explain. But so far either way you slice the pie its not looking good for you.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
How about a pve/pvp split?
I don’t pvp that much (so it’s not for me), but it seems a reasonable compromise for high prestige items.
~~~
Honestly I don’t mind the exclusive rewards for stuff, I just hate them filtering it on something so bleah.
There are plenty of rewards exclusive to open world pve that can’t be earned by raiding.
But one has more barriers to entry than others.
So you are fine with the concept and just haggling over price? Well Raiding is the price – pay or don’t pay – its up to you.
My first version of this was too harsh, but one of the advantages of the game to many professionals is that you can play it on an open schedule and in relatively small bites.
I’m happy to prioritize myself away from raids (I hate the way it seems to draw wamma be alpha-males), but I have empathy with the people who get annoyed that the ability to block off a few hours on a weekly schedule is the primary qualifier for special rewards.
This is content specifically designed for people who do have the time to spend in game, I think a lot of people in this thread are forgetting that.
The content is not designed for someone who has only 45mins and no guild to complete.
The is plenty more stuff out there for you, but not this.
They understand it extremely clearly, that’s why they’re complaining!
Lol really?
“I refuse to play this game for more than 45mins at a time and if anyone gets something I can’t because of that I’m going to cry!”
^This is their stance? Cause raiding really shouldn’t be their first complaint destination.
people are complaining because they’re pouring exclusive rewards into content that’s (to use your phrasing, which I was reacting to) explicitly not designed for them. Of course people are annoyed at that.
It’s not a monolithic discussion, of course, but there are some variations. In the dark old days I knew (and I’m sure we’ve all known) people who were hurting their jobs and families because they had to hit the raid schedule.
Now people who make that decision (imo) have some pretty jacked up priorities, but one of the big draws of GW2, especially to older more established gamers is that that decision has never even been on the table.
Now it is, and some people are going to make some bad decisions, and more people are gonig to resent being (in their minds) punished for making the (and lets be honest for it) right decision.
~~~~
I’m sure people would still complain if this were a skill cap, people always complain. But there would be fewer, and it not being a skill cap, but instead being a scheduling cap, reasonably ruffles feathers.
I completely understand and get where you’re coming from about real life having suffered for some due to gaming, I definitely spent a few years a while ago not making the right balance choices with my life.
GW2 though is in definite need of CGC and rewards go hand in hand with that, as it will require some time and dedication to complete (it wouldn’t be challenging if it didn’t) the situation is unavoidable that people who cannot spend that time will not get those rewards.
This is by design and complaining that something other people will love exists because it doesn’t fit with your life priorities isn’t fair – its your life and you decide what to do with it, sometimes this will put you in a different camp from certain other groups (be it photography night, spawning children or going fishing at the weekend).
You know (as you seem experienced in gaming) that the CGC must have special rewards linked to it. They are adding Legendary backpacks to PvP and Fractals and new weapons too (Fractals being reduced in required completion time). There will be plenty to do and get for those who don’t have time for raiding.
Raids were not designed for people who don’t have the time, the rewards are perfectly reasonable given all the other things being offered and the time investment we’re both assuming will be required.
There have ALWAYS been exclusive rewards in this game. Liadri, Tequatl, Triple Trouble, Glorious Armor, living story armor, etc. Why is it you only have a problem when the exclusive rewards are from raids?
Why do you think i don’t have problem with those?
Arenanet already said the rewards will be exclusive. While it is all possible to make different routes and such for it, they have not decided to do so.
So this arbritrary discussion about arbritrary content for arbritrary rewards should probably end. There’s no compromise and the discussion is going into the same circles over and over.
They have changed their minds about things before. That’s how we have raids in the first place, for example. So, it is “they have not decided yet to do so”. But they still may.
You can hold on to that splinter of hope. Arenanet isn’t going to flip their tables after a press release saying one thing over these few forum posts.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
After a few weeks, when everyone is done with the open world PvE, if people don’t shift to raids and population starts to dwindle, Anet will follow the metrics and make them easier.
I think in general people are going to be pretty disappointed with the ‘difficulty’ thing.
Arenanet already said the rewards will be exclusive. While it is all possible to make different routes and such for it, they have not decided to do so.
So this arbritrary discussion about arbritrary content for arbritrary rewards should probably end. There’s no compromise and the discussion is going into the same circles over and over.
Except they want to have their voices heard, which is totally legitimate.
Repeating a point into oblivion isn’t necessary to make it heard.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Not for you to tell them to not complain tho :p
It’s true that this is a thing and people are just gonna have to buck up (or not play the game), but people complaining about posts they can just ignore always irks me just a bit :p
But if people are complaining about exclusives to raiding and are ok with exclusives elsewhere, then they are being irrational.
Not really. If people don’t want to raid, but want the rewards exclusive to raids, then not wanting those rewards to be exclusive to raids is an extremely rational position for them to take, whether it’s one that you agree with or not, and regardless of their feelings on other rewards.
Then they are being bloody hypocrites. You can’t be ok with exclusives for content that YOU like and then not ok with them when you don’t like the content. Then you are just being a selfish kitten .
(Note I’m not talking about you specifically Ohoni, because we all know you don’t like exclusives at all so you not liking raiding exclusives at least makes logical sense.)
(edited by xarallei.4279)
After a few weeks, when everyone is done with the open world PvE, if people don’t shift to raids and population starts to dwindle, Anet will follow the metrics and make them easier.
I doubt it, simply because their model for Raids seems to cater towards players and guilds working together towards those challenges. There’s nothing stopping a hard-core raiding guild (those will come, probably from the same people doing speed-runs of current dungeon content) from advertising in map chat full-runs of a Raid Wing for a certain amount of gold.
This has two benefits, one is that the guild in question which has gotten the raid down to a science, gets an ‘enhanced’ challenge by bringing in someone utterly new which could complicate and make the raid artificially harder, and the one who comes into the raid can finally get to see how the raid works, the mechanics and so forth.
If people were going to sell raids, they’d either
- do it like dungeons now (at last boss, buyer just gets final reward), or if that’s not possible due to tweaks in the reward system (perhaps you have to hit boss to get any credit),
- ask buyer to stand in specific location and only autoattack enough to get credit.
Teaching will just add time to the transaction — not to mention, sellers certainly don’t want buyers to screw things up (dropping the wrong combo fields, for example). People might learn from videos that elite guilds put up, but I don’t think there will be any learning from raid selling.
But the real problem is that with Legendary Armor locked behind raids, everyone is going to want to do them — and if they turn out to actually be hard, it’s going to be a problem as most players aren’t cut out for raids (not necessarily because they’re bad players, but maybe time issues). This will lead to a lot of rage. And that’s when Anet will give in and make them easier (they’ll probably call it “more accessible”).
It is more accessible.
Let’s wait to see if they’re actually hard before we get into that part though.
There needs to be a reward for doing Raids. Hopefully these rewards will be sellable. Otherwise, outside of trying to sell a path, they’ll be no reason for me to repeat the content.
Here’s to hoping Raid rewards aren’t screwed by being gated. Nothing would turn me off more than having Legendary Armor requiring 1,000 tokens for a raid. With something silly like, each successful Raid drops 1 token per day!
[AwM] of Jade Quarry.
Ohoni, you don’t deserve the rewards because you don’t want to do the content. Thats as simple as it gets.
You are asking anet to give you rewards the way you want them (by putting rewards in basically every type of content you find fun). Thats not how it works and thats not how it should work and you are completely wrong in the eyes of anet as they have proven already that exclusive rewards are good.
There a lot of things locked behind certain content… do you see an uproar in the community of players complaining about PvP getting their own exclusive stuff? or fractals getting their own stuff?
Raids shouldn’t be any different. Disagree all you want, I know this won’t stop you , but sooner or later, you need to realize that you are not going to change anet’s stance on exclusive rewards.
This game (or any MMORPG) would be a disaster with your views of a reward system. Thats why there is no MMORPG out there that does not have exclusive rewards.
“Deserve” doesn’t have anything to do with it.
do you see an uproar in the community of players complaining about PvP getting their own exclusive stuff? or fractals getting their own stuff?
Because that stuff is not desirable, that’s why. If it was, there certainly would be rage. Especially in sPvP as people would flood the mode and not care at all about sPvP in itself.
[AwM] of Jade Quarry.
50% of what? But this is my point: Other content has exclusive rewards, what’s wrong with raids having exclusive rewards? Your saying you don’t want ANY content to have exclusive rewards?!? Or are you saying you just don’t like raids and you want the rewards but are fine with other stuff for some reason having exclusive rewards? If your answer is A, then I advise you go to a different game cause I highly doubt anet is suddenly gonna say screw you exclusive rewards to all its content. If it’s B, then you just chucked logic out the window. I don’t see any c, but if you got one please do explain. But so far either way you slice the pie its not looking good for you.
I would go with A. While the raid content bothers me personally more than the other systems, ideologically I’m opposed to anyone not being able to get the rewards they want just because they can’t or don’t want to participate in one specific aspect of such a multifaceted game. So this is the topic I am most vocal about, but if someone else really cares about making PvP armors less exclusive, then I certainly wouldn’t argue against them.
The raid issue is a new issue because raids are new to this game. They were not in it before, and therefore everything related to them is a new discussion. Other content might have been in some ways similar, but that does not mean that just because previous content did something a certain way, that raids have to follow suite, or that it would justify raids following suite.
How about a pve/pvp split?
I don’t pvp that much (so it’s not for me), but it seems a reasonable compromise for high prestige items.
I could agree to that, IF raids are considered to be on the “PvP” side of that split. I have a feeling that raiders and PvPers have a lot more in common than raiders and PvEers. However the split ends up, there needs to be a split between raiders and general PvE players.
GW2 though is in definite need of CGC and rewards go hand in hand with that, as it will require some time and dedication to complete (it wouldn’t be challenging if it didn’t) the situation is unavoidable that people who cannot spend that time will not get those rewards.
It isn’t even remotely unavoidable. You avoid it by providing alternate methods for those people to acquire those rewards. Boom, avoided.
This is by design and complaining that something other people will love exists because it doesn’t fit with your life priorities isn’t fair – its your life and you decide what to do with it, sometimes this will put you in a different camp from certain other groups (be it photography night, spawning children or going fishing at the weekend).
I haven’t heard anyone seriously complaining that raiding exists, only about the negative impacts that it could bring to the game, such as locking up exclusive rewards. So long as non-raider players are not incentivized to participate in raiding, it’s a “live and let live” situation. But so long as non-raider players ARE incentivized to raid, well then it’s war, and one side has to burn.
You know (as you seem experienced in gaming) that the CGC must have special rewards linked to it. They are adding Legendary backpacks to PvP and Fractals and new weapons too (Fractals being reduced in required completion time). There will be plenty to do and get for those who don’t have time for raiding.
Like what? You just listed two things that are no less of a time/skill investment than raiding. It’s like you just said “you don’t need to be a doctor, you could also be a lawyer or a hedge-fund manager, like, whatever.”
Then they are being bloody hypocrites. You can’t be ok with exclusives for content that YOU like and then not ok with them when you don’t like the content.
Of course you can. People can care about what they care about and not care about what they don’t care about, that does not make them hypocrites. What would make them hypocrites is if they care about it in their own case, but actively fight against it in someone else’s case.
So if someone says “I care about these rewards being exclusive, but I don’t care about those rewards being exclusive,” then that is not hypocritical, their degree of investment is their own business. It is only hypocritical if they say “I care about these rewards being exclusive, but I don’t want you to have these other rewards because they are exclusive to something I like.” I am not taking that position, and so far I don’t believe that anyone has.
It is more accessible.
Let’s wait to see if they’re actually hard before we get into that part though.
I don’t buy that they can ever balance it out. If the raiders like it, then it’ll be too hard for most players. If it’s easy enough that most players can do it, then the raiders will drown the forums with their tears about how it’s too “casual.” My assumption is that if they’re going to bother with raiding at all, that they will at least try to err on the raider’s side, at least at first. After a few months, they might give up on that though.
There needs to be a reward for doing Raids. Hopefully these rewards will be sellable. Otherwise, outside of trying to sell a path, they’ll be no reason for me to repeat the content.
There should be rewards, just not exclusive ones. The amount of rewards you get should be comparable or better than other activities in the game. If you enjoy raiding, so that on a level playing field raiding is how you would prefer to spend your time, then great, it’s available for you! If you don’t prefer raiding, and would not do it unless bribed into it via exclusive rewards, then also great, you don’t have to raid! Everybody wins!
Ohoni, you don’t deserve the rewards because you don’t want to do the content. Thats as simple as it gets.
It’s also a nonsense statement. "deserving " a reward is entirely based on meeting an arbitrary goal put there at a developer’s whim. They are free to change that goal at their whim. If they choose to say that players “deserve” the armor for completing the raid then that’s what players deserve. If they say that players can also “deserve” the armro for completing some other challenge, then players deserve that too. I’m just pushing that they adopt the latter position.
There a lot of things locked behind certain content… do you see an uproar in the community of players complaining about PvP getting their own exclusive stuff? or fractals getting their own stuff?
Yes. You don’t? There’s not so much of it right at the moment, because neither gameplay type is particularly novel, but each time they’ve added exclusive rewards to those modes there has been some degree of negative response, and there continues to be under the surface. I imagine that vocal criticism of raid armor will die off too over time, after the game releases and people have fully tried it, but don’t confuse that for acceptance, it just means that people have given up on trying to change something that they still do not like, and that still makes them less happy about playing the game.
Raids shouldn’t be any different. Disagree all you want, I know this won’t stop you , but sooner or later, you need to realize that you are not going to change anet’s stance on exclusive rewards.
Why? They’ve changed their stance numerous times before. Just coming up we’re going to be getting non-RNG routes to earning Fractal weapons, non-RNG Precursors, why should I not expect to ever see them change their stance on raid armor?
This game (or any MMORPG) would be a disaster with your views of a reward system. Thats why there is no MMORPG out there that does not have exclusive rewards.
I’m playing Marvel Heroes at the moment, and it doesn’t have exclusive rewards. Much of the loot is themed, and more likely to be acquired directly from certain scenarios, but almost every item in the game can be gained through some alternate means, and those that can’t are just stats, not skins, so it really isn’t that important.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
sigh not another stupid weekly “chest” system just like in fractals where I have not gotten the one skin I actually wanted after 2 years of fractals….
Also I really hope A-net does not forget to add agony resistance slots to legendary armor/weapons
Do you not believe that was a perfect example for raiding?
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”