Guild Wars 2

If you did not want exclusive rewards something to worry about then you should not have purchased Guild Wars 2. Even before the game was released, they rewarded exclusive Hall of Monuments skins to those that played Guild Wars. This information was clearly at hand. A precedent was set, and nothing was said assuring at this would never happen again. If you purchased the game without knowing this, that is also your own fault for not doing the very minimal research it would’ve taken to uncover this obvious fact.

Are you going to somehow argue that the Hall of monuments rewards should be made open and available to anybody doing anything in Guild Wars 2 now?

Nokaru.7831:

If you did not want exclusive rewards something to worry about then you should not have purchased Guild Wars 2. Even before the game was released, they rewarded exclusive Hall of Monuments skins to those that played Guild Wars. This information was clearly at hand. A precedent was set, and nothing was said assuring at this would never happen again. If you purchased the game without knowing this, that is also your own fault for not doing the very minimal research it would’ve taken to uncover this obvious fact.

Are you going to somehow argue that the Hall of monuments rewards should be made open and available to anybody doing anything in Guild Wars 2 now?

Guaranteed he would 100% support it being available through other paths, especially if the skin looks so cool that he must have it but doesn’t like the path to achieve it.

That’s why his entire reward structure is a failure.

He wants 100% of the skins, literally every single skin in this game, to be available through multiple paths. He doesn’t want ANY of them to be “exclusive”

Anet, clearly against it since guild wars freaking 1. But ohoni still believes they will change it lol.

He’s trolling at this point.

Anet has the proper structure in place but its not good enough for him since he wants an UNBALANCED (NO exclusive skins period) reward structure where anet is BALANCED (they have some exclusive skins with more coming and a lot of skins that are acquired through multiple paths)

He doesn’t seem to understand how blatantly unbalanced his method is, thus he is trolling

SkiTz.4590:

Nokaru.7831:

If you did not want exclusive rewards something to worry about then you should not have purchased Guild Wars 2. Even before the game was released, they rewarded exclusive Hall of Monuments skins to those that played Guild Wars. This information was clearly at hand. A precedent was set, and nothing was said assuring at this would never happen again. If you purchased the game without knowing this, that is also your own fault for not doing the very minimal research it would’ve taken to uncover this obvious fact.

Are you going to somehow argue that the Hall of monuments rewards should be made open and available to anybody doing anything in Guild Wars 2 now?

Guaranteed he would 100% support it being available through other paths, especially if the skin looks so cool that he must have it but doesn’t like the path to achieve it.

That’s why his entire reward structure is a failure.

He wants 100% of the skins, literally every single skin in this game, to be available through multiple paths. He doesn’t want ANY of them to be “exclusive”

Anet, clearly against it since guild wars freaking 1. But ohoni still believes they will change it lol.

He’s trolling at this point.

Anet has the proper structure in place but its not good enough for him since he wants an UNBALANCED (NO exclusive skins period) reward structure where anet is BALANCED (they have some exclusive skins with more coming and a lot of skins that are acquired through multiple paths)

He doesn’t seem to understand how blatantly unbalanced his method is, thus he is trolling

Oh dear I can imagine the backlash from that. The forum went crazy when a gem store item looked similar to a human cultural outfit. Something only race exclusive and then race exclusive to the race most people play.

It would probably very well be the final nail in the coffin for many GW1 vets. And rightfully so. I might even stop playing in protest as I wouldn’t want to earn those skins unless I played GW1 and earned them the original way. I don’t currently own GW1.

You do realize you aren’t countering my point at all by repeating this line, right? Could you at least try, or will you take back the comparison argument between hazing and raiding unless you provide more substance?

I think I made my case, and so far you’ve only helped me to reinforce it, so I don’t know what I could really add.

It’s designed to be fair, not cruel, and that analogy is misleading at best. The player who willingly gives up taking one much more difficult avenue towards a reward can take a much more slower route. It is better than being outright exclusive towards the former, under your ideals.

Better, but still unnecessarily cruel. If you genuinely care about that person being happy (which clearly you do not), then you would offer them something that was fair to them, a method that is less efficient than the baseline method, but still one that is reasonable to pursue.

And is it effort when compared to doing a raid?

Obviously. It’s less effort, which is why we all agree that the reward should be less, but it’s not insignificant effort, so the reward should not be insignificant.

We can argue whether or not he meant this for a while, but the point stands that at that time during the discussion, he never strictly mentioned BLTC skins within the post.

This is true, but within the context of his previous statements it is obvious that he intended to reference the BLTC, a point which he could have, but did not dispute in his follow-up to my comments. There is nothing wrong with addressing prior statements by someone, so long as those statements are in proper context. There was nothing remotely improper about the paragraph you quoted.

Are you going to somehow argue that the Hall of monuments rewards should be made open and available to anybody doing anything in Guild Wars 2 now?

It would be nice if some of the skins could be made available from doing some sort of activities in GW2, sure. Those are some interesting skins, and there’s no particular reason that only GW1 players should have them, aside from ANet arbitrarily deciding that they would be locked behind GW1 content.

Oh dear I can imagine the backlash from that. The forum went crazy when a gem store item looked similar to a human cultural outfit. Something only race exclusive and then race exclusive to the race most people play.

I think the bigger backlash was that it was a cheap cop-out rather than a truly unique armor. If they make unique armors for the Gem Store, fine, but they should not take in-game armors and make them available as Gem Store items with few if any tweaks.

Ohoni.6057:

I think I made my case, and so far you’ve only helped me to reinforce it, so I don’t know what I could really add.

Proof by Assertion and Circular Reasoning! Nice way to end that horrendously incorrect analogy but you can do better-

Ohoni.6057:

Better, but still unnecessarily cruel. If you genuinely care about that person being happy (which clearly you do not), then you would offer them something that was fair to them, a method that is less efficient than the baseline method, but still one that is reasonable to pursue.

Oh, nice ad-hominem jab there. I have been giving you far more respect in this discourse than most of the posters here yet only explicitly in the last post you made you actually referred to me in your quotes. Nor have you really quoted other players fairly as well, which paints you the one who cares less for other players treating us all one in the same. I care for other players and this game far more than you realize, and your objections to my compromise have no weight on whether or not the compromise is in good faith.

I have laid out my take on the compromise for exclusive rewards, and I simply do not agree that you have any counter-points against it aside from what you yourself think it is unfair, thus justifying it as unfair.

Ohoni.6057:

Obviously. It’s less effort, which is why we all agree that the reward should be less, but it’s not insignificant effort, so the reward should not be insignificant.

The reward is the same at the end! Your own statement here contradicts itself! They get the same legendary armor going the easier but longer route! It is NOT a lesser reward it’s the SAME REWARD at the end! Both roads lead to the same conclusion!

Ohoni.6057:

This is true, but within the context of his previous statements it is obvious that he intended to reference the BLTC, a point which he could have, but did not dispute in his follow-up to my comments. There is nothing wrong with addressing prior statements by someone, so long as those statements are in proper context. There was nothing remotely improper about the paragraph you quoted.

But you can’t, much like how Skitz can get emotionally charged and attack you based on your post history and agenda in an attempt to misrepresent or exaggerate your arguments (though if you agree with his assessment of you by all means but that’s up to you). Regardless, you take each post on its own, and only when it references a previous post/argument can you make that kind of call. If he had said something along the lines of ‘90% of rewards and 95% of skins are earned through a gold grind, including BLTC skins!’ could you have said what you said. But you didn’t, you played the strawman no differently than many of the posters here.

….The reality of all this is, we’ve been patient for a while now. It’s…admirable to keep to your side at all costs, but you have repetitively continued to dismiss or ignore our arguments and distort them, whereas when we inform you that you are doing the same thing, you suggest that your posts were not at all flawed. The sheer fact you simply linked the Hazing video and ‘The evidence speaks for itself’ when it’s focus has no bearing whatsoever on Raiding, yet you continue to support the notion that it is the same thing.

It’s insulting to intelligence and common sense for everyone here. You have not been sincere at all, and your motive and agenda have been made crystal clear for everyone here:

You do not want exclusivity in rewards in any real form. The absolute worst part about it all is that you never spoke up to this extent, even while exclusive rewards were being doled out. That means either you never really put much thought into it until Legendary Armor was announced, or you aren’t really interested in stopping exclusivity but just having Legendary Armor available in a part of the game you enjoy.

All of this under the ruse of being for the majority of players…

Personally, meaning that what I am about to say next has no real factual bearing and could be considered fallacy if I were to state it as such. But you are just as bad as elitists, just as selfish for taking such a stance and likely not to change. My aspirations were to try to convince you that the exclusivity is a good thing, a needed thing, and that your standpoint of removing exclusivity was absolutely wrong. I extended many bridges, and you burned them all down with the presumption that you have ‘defeated’ my arguments which you have not, instead parroting old arguments in an endless circle.

Ultimately, I expect Legendary Armor to release to the raid as such, and I am hoping for other exclusive Legendary Armor to crop up in other game-modes as well. This likely means you are not going to like it, and if you were to dislike it to the point where you would quit the game over a couple of skins…at this point now I can’t see myself being sad about it.

Good luck regardless Ohoni.

holy crap… yall still carrying on about this issue??? close the demn thread already

I have laid out my take on the compromise for exclusive rewards, and I simply do not agree that you have any counter-points against it aside from what you yourself think it is unfair, thus justifying it as unfair.

So you believe your offer was a fair one. Well let me ask this then. Say there is a form of content that is a complete non-starter for you. It is not fun for you, not convenient for your lifestyle, I won’t posit what that might be, but just assume that it’s something that you simply cannot participate in. “I would do it anyways” is not an option for the purposes of this scenario. And let’s say that it gives an exclusive reward that you definitely want, you will not be a happy and fulfilled player without having that item. So let’s say that if you did play [the thing which must not be played], you could earn the item in a month or less. And let’s say the alternative proposed is that you could earn the item through a year and a half of dedicated, focused effort on nothing but earning that reward.

You would find that perfectly fair? You would be like “thank you, may I have another?” you would not see that as being a bit of a slap in the face, that they could have offered a more reasonable alternative?

The reward is the same at the end! Your own statement here contradicts itself! They get the same legendary armor going the easier but longer route! It is NOT a lesser reward it’s the SAME REWARD at the end! Both roads lead to the same conclusion!

I meant in that example the immediate reward, as in “the amount you get for each unit of time.” The amount you get per unit of time should be less for the less involved activity, but not so much less that it becomes insignificant. If one activity awards 100 [units of progress] per hour, then another activity that involves attention and actual effort should not only reward 1 [unit of progress], it should offer 10, 20, even 50.

If you believe that a raid should offer 18 times the quantity of reward as other content, then you greatly overvalue the importance of raiding.

But you can’t, much like how Skitz can get emotionally charged and attack you based on your post history and agenda in an attempt to misrepresent or exaggerate your arguments (though if you agree with his assessment of you by all means but that’s up to you)

No, the difference is that Skitz (and others) call out straw men of arguments that I have never supported in any form, for example the infamous “earning Legendaries by chatting in LA” one. I have no problem with people referencing my previous statements, so long as they do so accurately.

But you didn’t, you played the strawman no differently than many of the posters here.

Again, it is NOT a straw man to accurately reference his prior statements, that is NOT what a straw man is.

You do not want exclusivity in rewards in any real form. The absolute worst part about it all is that you never spoke up to this extent, even while exclusive rewards were being doled out.

I’ve brought it up from time to time, the game’s been around three years and most of those systems were added years ago.

My aspirations were to try to convince you that the exclusivity is a good thing, a needed thing, and that your standpoint of removing exclusivity was absolutely wrong.

You should have just asked, I could have told you how futile that would be. You act as if you have behaved virtuously here, an “outreach to the ignorant” or something. You have not. You have just been pursuing your own selfish agenda in trying to shut me down. I don’t begrudge that, your agenda is your own and you’re free to pursue it, but don’t try to make it out as if you’ve been taking some moral high-ground, when you state yourself that your goal was merely to convince me to abandon my own principles. You’re not a monster for disagreeing with me, but you’re no saint either, you’re just another player who is trying to get what he wants out of the game.

…And now they added a gear check to the raids as well. Great job Anet, what a wonderful idea. [/sarcasm]

Astralporing.1957:

…And now they added a gear check to the raids as well. Great job Anet, what a wonderful idea. [/sarcasm]

two things (raids and fractals) out of the past 3 years with a gear check…. o my…the end of the game as we know it is happening…

this is just a terrible idea and anet will fail now….

Its great that you know so much more and seem more knowledgeable than anet. I trust in your superior judgement [/sarcasm]