Guild Wars 2

I loathed every single minute of it.

I know I’m pretty late to the game and you’ve probably heard it all before, but I thought I’d add my voice in case it makes some small different for Path of Fire.

The entire story and all the maps felt like a complete chore. I have no interest in any of your “clever” mechanics, mazes or puzzles. I don’t care for pointless long and drawn out fights either (soloing hero points because nobody plays this game anymore).

I’m just a PvP player back from a long break and I only really want to enjoy the new elite specializations (the only value HoT added). Honestly, I used to find map completion a relaxing and nice stroll through the world but with the jungle I can’t see myself ever going back. Anyway, I hope either PoF is made less tedious or Elite specs are just made available on the the TP for gold/gems.

Sorry if you’ve heard this a million times before.

i personaly HATE the Hot maps….

its an annoying disaster of a labyrinth…….. the new Season 3 maps are done right and the new expansion zones are also great..

but HOT zones ? hell no….

you want that Map completion ? you need that Last Poi or Mastery ?
well spend your next 1 freaking hour searching a way there just to found out later you need to triger a map event to get there……….. and allthis while nonstop getting knocked arround by a billions of mobs…..

The HoT maps were designed to add more challenging content that specifically required group participation. The new living story maps have a better balance of solo and group play. I agree that it can be quite frustrating to do on your own and will continue to be over time as less and less people need to complete it. The maze like design of the terrain is intentional to make you feel lost in the jungle. It is kind of a hit and miss.

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

Vayne.8563:

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

Zoltreez.6435:

Vayne.8563:

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

There’s a difference between an opinion and a fact. YOU found them annoying. I didn’t find them annoying. Ergo they are annoying to you and not to me.

The HoT maps I found interesting. I now find some of the core Tyria maps to be rather dull.

But you know, it’s a matter of opinion, and that’s all it is.

bladezero.9470:

I loathed every single minute of it.

I know I’m pretty late to the game and you’ve probably heard it all before, but I thought I’d add my voice in case it makes some small different for Path of Fire.

The entire story and all the maps felt like a complete chore. I have no interest in any of your “clever” mechanics, mazes or puzzles. I don’t care for pointless long and drawn out fights either (soloing hero points because nobody plays this game anymore).

I’m just a PvP player back from a long break and I only really want to enjoy the new elite specializations (the only value HoT added). Honestly, I used to find map completion a relaxing and nice stroll through the world but with the jungle I can’t see myself ever going back. Anyway, I hope either PoF is made less tedious or Elite specs are just made available on the the TP for gold/gems.

Sorry if you’ve heard this a million times before.

I am pretty much with you here. It just felt one huge annoyance, irritation and chore to me. Some love it and want more of, and will likely get it with PoF in a new variation on the theme.

They’ve decided this is how the game will be from here on in it seems.

To each, his own I suppose. There are those who love and those who hate it.

I don’t really say this as a complaint, not all games are for all people. So for me, I just play the core game anymore when I want some GW2. I still enjoy the core game a lot and wish the game well. I just dislike what they have been doing to everything else. Just not my taste.

Tedious and annoying pretty much sum up my thoughts about HoT as well.

See this is my problem with threads like this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Done-most-of-HoT-and/first#post6713133
This is a thread on the first page at the same time and here’s a guy who ended up enjoying HOT but he didn’t consider buying it for the longest time because of posts like these. They don’t really encourage any kind of discussion, most of which has been done. This also isn’t the first post like this.
There are definitely people who go into HoT and don’t like it, just like there are people who go into core tyria and didn’t like it. Most people that have ever played this game left long before HoT ever came out. At least, we know over 4 million people bought the game at launch and I’m pretty sure more than half of them left before HOT was ever a thing.
But the anti-hot crowd are so relentless is explaining over and over again how terrible HoT is, without acknowledging the fact that it’s still busy, people are still playing and enjoying it and many many people like it.
There are also a lot of people who don’t like HOT who go in there JUST to get elite specs or JUST to get mastery points and they don’t even really care to give it a try because they’re entering to leave as soon as possible.
The HoT complaints aren’t going to change HoT at this point anyway, but ignoring that fact that a significant portion of the player base is enjoying it and running it down isn’t going to help the game. But it will might turn people away who would otherwise enjoy it.

the 4 HoT maps is by far the best open world maps i have seen in any game. Many of the problems derive more from bad product marketing, all 4 maps needed an official manual, explaining their concept.

Zoltreez.6435:

Vayne.8563:

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

You say that as if “annoyance” were an objective measure. It isn’t. What is annoying to you is fun to somebody else. I really loved Verdant Brink and Tangled Depths especially. I didn’t mind taking my time at all. On the other hand, the core Tyria maps all seem like the same boring content with a different skin. There’s little to set them apart in my mind. To each their own, right?

I have come to love the HoT maps.

Tangled Depths is awesome – the sense of exploration and jeopardy when I first started exploring that map have been unmatched anywhere.

HoT was a major step-change for me, and it took me a little while to get to grips with it.

But it proved to be game-changing for me and rekindled my love for this game. I’m also loving the new LS3 maps.

While I have a great fondness and nostalgia for the core Tyria maps, they’re just too 2D for me now to enjoy spending much time in; not engaging or challenging enough.

People’s experience of HoT seems to be very polarised, and unfortunately people rarely make a thread to to say “Yay, this is great and superfun!” Also, as someone else pointed out, I guess some people can visit these forums to get a feel for whether it would be fun for them to try out GW2, and maybe get put off as a result of some of the negative threads.

That’s a shame.

I think Hot (and LS3) has been great content for this game, and I’ve enjoyed (and am still enjoying) playing my way through it.

LS3 zones are freaking PERFECT !!!! its the balance betwin the Boring Core maps and Annoying overbloated Hot maps….

il hope foture zones will be like LS3

Imo Tangled Depths was the only frustrating map. It really is tangled lol. The others just need a little bit of getting used to.

Having returned just recently, I truly dislike the HoT maps as well. They are very tedious and painful especially on an alt that you are trying to get the HP on. Who thought soloing champions was a good idea? My favorite has to be the mastery point where the mobs spawned so fast I spent several cycles just killing them over and over to get the point. Moving from place to place feels more like a chore than fun. I can understand that some people like grinding but for me this is just bad design.

I have enjoyed the HoT elite specs but the HoT maps are extremely tedious. I would like to recommend this to friends but I cannot due to the poor map quality. I have liked what I have seen of PoF a lot more so far. I am looking forward to that expansion.

I loved them, well maybe not Dragon Stand, but that was simply because it was more meta than explorable, but otherwise I had and still have, great fun in them. It’s also nice to still see them so well populated 2 years on.

The story was OK, but rushed and maybe a third-quarter the length an expac story should have been considering how much needed to be told.

Not sure why people go on about “no one plays this game anymore”. Every map I’m in seems very well populated.

Out of 9 level 80’s on 2 accounts, 6 are map complete on all 4 HoT maps. Of the ones that aren’t – 1 is a Guardian that I’ve had for a month or two that I’m still learning to play, My revenant has turned into a mule but is still at 75% of Tangled Depths – the other 3 are done, and the engi…that I’m still figuring out how to play (not to mention gear). Of those same 9 level 80’s, exactly 1 has 100% world completion. The rest sit between 40 and 65% world completion (yes, I know HoT maps don’t count towards that), except for the Guard who is down at 11 or 15% complete.

I run Dragon Stand on dead maps just to collect the 8-10 noxious pods that spawn. And rarely get tagged even once by mobs by dancing around the edges and never even aggro’ing the mordrem patrols. Most of the time I run it on my Reaper and don’t even pop my blood fiend because it’s more likely to aggro something than I am!

To the OP, the HoT maps can be very frustrating when you first get in them. Once you learn your way around, they become much more fun and interesting. When and if I buy PoF is still up in the air a bit, but even if I do, I won’t be leaving the HoT maps.

Fair enough if you didn’t enjoy HoT because you didn’t like navigation with bouncing shrooms / gliding, difficulty of mobs etc. That’s all subjective stuff, some people like me enjoyed all that, and of course some people didn’t.

But this part

(soloing hero points because nobody plays this game anymore).

Don’t really see how you’ve reached the conclusion that “nobody plays this game anymore”. Maps still have regular HP trains, the LFG always has several groups listed for active meta maps, and even a simple call for help in map chat (long as it’s asked nicely) get’s players together.

edit – one thing worth pointing out as well, is with the whole context of the story of HoT, it makes perfect sense why the maps aren’t as relaxing to explore as the core ones. The whole place is an inhospitable jungle that’s effectively alive/being controlled, where everything is corrupted and trying to kill you. So the atmosphere of relaxing exploration wouldn’t really fit with the story or environment, a jungle should be a labyrinth that’s easy to get lost in if you don’t know the way. (not saying people should enjoy that, but just that it makes sense why it is the way it is)

killermanjaro.5670:

Fair enough if you didn’t enjoy HoT because you didn’t like navigation with bouncing shrooms / gliding, difficulty of mobs etc. That’s all subjective stuff, some people like me enjoyed all that, and of course some people didn’t.

But this part

(soloing hero points because nobody plays this game anymore).

Don’t really see how you’ve reached the conclusion that “nobody plays this game anymore”. Maps still have regular HP trains, the LFG always has several groups listed for active meta maps, and even a simple call for help in map chat (long as it’s asked nicely) get’s players together.

edit – one thing worth pointing out as well, is with the whole context of the story of HoT, it makes perfect sense why the maps aren’t as relaxing to explore as the core ones. The whole place is an inhospitable jungle that’s effectively alive/being controlled, where everything is corrupted and trying to kill you. So the atmosphere of relaxing exploration wouldn’t really fit with the story or environment, a jungle should be a labyrinth that’s easy to get lost in if you don’t know the way. (not saying people should enjoy that, but just that it makes sense why it is the way it is)

I can understand where he is coming with the comment. I have been on a couple of very active maps trying to get HPs on my alts. People are busy following the meta train so I was left to solo champions. One mistake and you get to start over. The process can be very frustrating. So while the map is actually pretty full, you are pretty much by yourself. This is very different from the beginning of the xpac when everyone was doing the HPs.

Champion HPs are the biggest complaint about HoT, but you only need 250 points for your spec which means you don’t actually have to do any of them.

Let’s be realistic, the only reason people don’t complain about the hundreds of group events in Central Tyria is that they can all be soloed, except maybe the Orr temple events (though I’ve done it before) and world bosses.

It has nothing to do with them being HPs, people just get mad at needing a group. Skip them, you’ll still have enough HPs to get your elite.

Masteries alone spiced up the game, a way to sort of progress without increasing level cap. Getting your 250 points even if you did no core HPs is only a few hours once you’ve done the route for VB+AB once or twice. Any points you can’t solo, if you start them up or wait, people end up coming, or ask in mapchat/lfg. If you fall short, then do 1 DS meta, those 6-7 HPs there are gimmies as well – besides 1 of them if you don’t have gliding upgrade.

Once you have the necessary masteries all maps are easy to play.

I love the maps even though they’re confusing as heck, claustrophobic and takes a long time. I love the challenge and felt it was different from core, and it was a lot of fun getting to high spots looking at some incredible complex sights or trying to be creative on how to get places. masteries are also pretty neat. soloing Champs for me haven’t been difficult. it’s important to be skilled enough and have a strong build. this is post end game content and should be more difficult. I actually wanted to solo Champs to test myself but often people would show up. the maps always have people doing stuff. Mobs are abundant and I can imagine it’s annoying for most people, but on a mesmer, ele and engineer, just darting by whether in stealth or using leaps and other traveling techniques have been no problem. I can imagine it’s pretty easy for warrior too. you don’t need to fight everything. but make a good appropriate build, play skillfully, and take your time, take screenshots. not everything needs to be a rush and race to get things over with. why play a game if it’s not for enjoyment and killing time? if taking it too seriously, like a job, of course it can get annoying and stressful.

Starting to play through them on my second character, and this time isn’t quite so bad. I think some of the problem on the first character is a lot of the map was hard to move around until you got through the relevant masteries. Since those are account bound, they are mostly open to my second character.
However, one thing that is still annoying is trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B. I don’t have a solution, but trying to use the map to figure it out is pretty much useless. So I find that there is a lot of wasted time trying to figure it out.
Perhaps that is part of the design (maps are confusing and hard to navigate). But I don’t find that particularly fun – given the limited time I have to play, going in the wrong direction, finding dead ends, etc, isn’t particularly interesting.

Solvar.7953:

Starting to play through them on my second character, and this time isn’t quite so bad. I think some of the problem on the first character is a lot of the map was hard to move around until you got through the relevant masteries. Since those are account bound, they are mostly open to my second character.
However, one thing that is still annoying is trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B. I don’t have a solution, but trying to use the map to figure it out is pretty much useless. So I find that there is a lot of wasted time trying to figure it out.
Perhaps that is part of the design (maps are confusing and hard to navigate). But I don’t find that particularly fun – given the limited time I have to play, going in the wrong direction, finding dead ends, etc, isn’t particularly interesting.

I can see why that’d be annoying, with not enough time to relax and explore until the puzzle starts to come together. On the other hand, many of us really loved that aspect of HoT.

I used to play WoW and all of their maps are “flat” as well as having flying mounts that trivialize exploration (even if they are super cool!). HoT was quite awe-inspiring in comparison, with those complex, layered layouts that you really had to just figure out by exploring.

I’m of the opinion HoT maps would have been fun if Anet hadn’t made the map exploration group mandatory. If you have to avoid a champion here, or use a backway in there the maps would have been fun. Instead they tied the exploration to the Meta. To even make it to Dragon Stand you must make the Meta event of Tangled Depths. And then to further lock stats behind the maps unique items and currency further limiting players access to needed stats Viper, Trailblazer, Wanderer’s, and so on. So why is Trailblazer’s soo expensive, because the Maguuma Lilly is extremely rare and it also requires a charged crystal that can only be made one per day and the Quartz Crystals have very few locations that can be farmed. These are never or extremely rare to gain from salvage. They could control prices by not severly limiting mats but like with Hardened Leather which is now accessible by way of Meta. Basically everything is tied to long drawn out events that limit accessibility and play.

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921:

I’m of the opinion HoT maps would have been fun if Anet hadn’t made the map exploration group mandatory. If you have to avoid a champion here, or use a backway in there the maps would have been fun. Instead they tied the exploration to the Meta. To even make it to Dragon Stand you must make the Meta event of Tangled Depths. And then to further lock stats behind the maps unique items and currency further limiting players access to needed stats Viper, Trailblazer, Wanderer’s, and so on. So why is Trailblazer’s soo expensive, because the Maguuma Lilly is extremely rare and it also requires a charged crystal that can only be made one per day and the Quartz Crystals have very few locations that can be farmed. These are never or extremely rare to gain from salvage. They could control prices by not severly limiting mats but like with Hardened Leather which is now accessible by way of Meta. Basically everything is tied to long drawn out events that limit accessibility and play.

This really bothers me. You can get to dragon stand without ever setting foot in the meta of TD. And you can complete the TD map without ever completing or participating in the meta.

This type of false information is just bad for the game.

I can imagine the suffering OP went through. Though i disagree with him, as i love HoT, but i can imagine what happened.

If you “finished” HoT then i feel for you. If you try to strong arm you way through the maps instead of slowly uncovering the jungle by yourself and taking it in one bit at a time then obviously you’d hate it. You just run a marathon at full sprint instead of pacing yourself.

HoT is not about completing a map in 1h then crossing it off the list like core Tyria. It is about exploration, checking out many hidden spots and reaching before inaccessible ones as you unlock the mastery. Doing an adventure when you had your fill of mobs, gliding above cloud levels not giving a kitten about anything happening below, just getting lost on the map and seeing where you’ll end up, or conversly putting your mind to mapping it and not getting lost too much.

Also i can imagine the horror of pure breed spvp-er coming to a HoT map which requires a proper build, gear and often someone else do to the event, unlike core Tyrian maps where you can run half naked with mismatched stats and still get things done.

But what really gets me is “Why?”. Elites are unlocked from get-go when you’re in spvp. You don’t have to do PvE masteries to get’em. Even WvW has alternative to going to HoT maps if you need your elite unlocked. If you don’t like it, don’t do it!

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921:

I’m of the opinion HoT maps would have been fun if Anet hadn’t made the map exploration group mandatory. If you have to avoid a champion here, or use a backway in there the maps would have been fun. Instead they tied the exploration to the Meta. To even make it to Dragon Stand you must make the Meta event of Tangled Depths. And then to further lock stats behind the maps unique items and currency further limiting players access to needed stats Viper, Trailblazer, Wanderer’s, and so on. So why is Trailblazer’s soo expensive, because the Maguuma Lilly is extremely rare and it also requires a charged crystal that can only be made one per day and the Quartz Crystals have very few locations that can be farmed. These are never or extremely rare to gain from salvage. They could control prices by not severly limiting mats but like with Hardened Leather which is now accessible by way of Meta. Basically everything is tied to long drawn out events that limit accessibility and play.

Meanwhile I still went through HoT maps with my berserker/assassin or rampager stats on my mesmer….

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921:

To even make it to Dragon Stand you must make the Meta event of Tangled Depths.

Nope, you can get to DS without ever playing Tangled Depths, there is another passage, plus you can get to that passage if you play the story (if you can’t see it on the map)

There is a single PoI in AB that is locked behind the first event of Southwatch and that’s really the extend of “locked content behind meta”

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921:

I’m of the opinion HoT maps would have been fun if Anet hadn’t made the map exploration group mandatory. If you have to avoid a champion here, or use a backway in there the maps would have been fun. Instead they tied the exploration to the Meta. To even make it to Dragon Stand you must make the Meta event of Tangled Depths. And then to further lock stats behind the maps unique items and currency further limiting players access to needed stats Viper, Trailblazer, Wanderer’s, and so on. So why is Trailblazer’s soo expensive, because the Maguuma Lilly is extremely rare and it also requires a charged crystal that can only be made one per day and the Quartz Crystals have very few locations that can be farmed. These are never or extremely rare to gain from salvage. They could control prices by not severly limiting mats but like with Hardened Leather which is now accessible by way of Meta. Basically everything is tied to long drawn out events that limit accessibility and play.

You can reach DS via TD meta completion, but it isn’t required. There is a portal connecting TD to DS in the aptly named “Dragon’s Passage” area in the southwest corner of the map.

I definitely agree on the stat sets. Viper isn’t too bad since black diamonds aren’t all that rare, but all of the others are ridiculously expensive for no good reason. Why require such rare materials to craft these? I honestly have no idea.

Strangely I had forgotten about the passage through the southwest corner.

I’m still of the opinion that meta limiting access to crafting materials, especially in DS where it’s the only way to get map currency was a bad design decision. The event require lots of time and LFG is basically the only way to get into one that succeeds, which is never explained even on the WIKI I didn’t find anything about LFG’s needed for Meta in DS.

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921:

Strangely I had forgotten about the passage through the southwest corner.

I’m still of the opinion that meta limiting access to crafting materials, especially in DS where it’s the only way to get map currency was a bad design decision. The event require lots of time and LFG is basically the only way to get into one that succeeds, which is never explained even on the WIKI I didn’t find anything about LFG’s needed for Meta in DS.

The game is terrible at explaining itself. That much we can agree on. But you can slow;ly farm crystalline ore without ever doing a meta.

I loved the new maps. I found them innovative and refreshing. But to each their own.

Vayne.8563:

Zoltreez.6435:

Vayne.8563:

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

There’s a difference between an opinion and a fact. YOU found them annoying. I didn’t find them annoying. Ergo they are annoying to you and not to me.

The HoT maps I found interesting. I now find some of the core Tyria maps to be rather dull.

But you know, it’s a matter of opinion, and that’s all it is.

You are right it is opinion.

But the OP said he was a PvP player. If he was a good one he would find HOT simply annoying.

In S5 of PvP i got to PLat 2 and ended in Plat 1 just 40 or so points away from a top 250 spot.

Alot of the PvP players i knew, ran threw raids. Simply adjusted PvE builds to finish the content quickly without fail. I mean 2 of them carried me threw a Xera run with 5 people.

So to point out, HOT wasnt challenging content for alot of players it was simply annoying.

This goes for everyone, the reason many people like me think it failed was because it simply ruined many aspects of the game.

HOT killed the PvP scene with GW2 losing ESL as well as ESL teams quiting 2 minutes into a match because the meta and HOT specs were just so bad. WvW had the same effect with 50 man zergs insta dying from the speed of which combat had changed without a way of fighting back.

Then you get to PvE where Anet failed in putting this " hard " content in certain areas. For instance when GW 2 first came out Orr was a difficult area to play in, the great argument was it was suppose to be. And there were 16+ other maps you could farm, explore, find JP, kill bosses in. They eventually nerfed Orr ( wasnt not a fan of that) and to me there was no reason to.

HOT comes out and no it wasnt hard but having to wait for a meta map timer in 3 maps and then having to coordinate bosses and completing events. They eventually came out with maps for the casual PvE crowd. They were not appealing to the X % of the player base while ruining PvP and WvW of the other player bases.

HOT unlike core GW2 did not give a little to everyone but simply gave to a certain player base which was coordinated PvE.

So of course there is more threads about HOT being annoying since HOT brought alot in one area and killed off others.

I believe OP is trying to say HoT requires too much team play. I myself had to abandon my newly created Rev at Tangled Depths and restart with my main class. It helped.

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

Zoltreez.6435:

Vayne.8563:

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

There’s a difference between an opinion and a fact. YOU found them annoying. I didn’t find them annoying. Ergo they are annoying to you and not to me.

The HoT maps I found interesting. I now find some of the core Tyria maps to be rather dull.

But you know, it’s a matter of opinion, and that’s all it is.

You are right it is opinion.

But the OP said he was a PvP player. If he was a good one he would find HOT simply annoying.

In S5 of PvP i got to PLat 2 and ended in Plat 1 just 40 or so points away from a top 250 spot.

Alot of the PvP players i knew, ran threw raids. Simply adjusted PvE builds to finish the content quickly without fail. I mean 2 of them carried me threw a Xera run with 5 people.

So to point out, HOT wasnt challenging content for alot of players it was simply annoying.

This goes for everyone, the reason many people like me think it failed was because it simply ruined many aspects of the game.

HOT killed the PvP scene with GW2 losing ESL as well as ESL teams quiting 2 minutes into a match because the meta and HOT specs were just so bad. WvW had the same effect with 50 man zergs insta dying from the speed of which combat had changed without a way of fighting back.

Then you get to PvE where Anet failed in putting this " hard " content in certain areas. For instance when GW 2 first came out Orr was a difficult area to play in, the great argument was it was suppose to be. And there were 16+ other maps you could farm, explore, find JP, kill bosses in. They eventually nerfed Orr ( wasnt not a fan of that) and to me there was no reason to.

HOT comes out and no it wasnt hard but having to wait for a meta map timer in 3 maps and then having to coordinate bosses and completing events. They eventually came out with maps for the casual PvE crowd. They were not appealing to the X % of the player base while ruining PvP and WvW of the other player bases.

HOT unlike core GW2 did not give a little to everyone but simply gave to a certain player base which was coordinated PvE.

So of course there is more threads about HOT being annoying since HOT brought alot in one area and killed off others.

I know people who PvP and WvW all the time who don’t do well in HoT content. Being a PvP player doesn’t give you some special secret powers to be good at everything . Just saying.

More to the point,j one of the guys in my guild is most a WvW player, plays a ton of PvP and didn’t find HoT annoying at all. He enjoys it as a break from PvP and WvW.

You can’t paint everyone with one brush. It’s still an opinion and you can’t even know that you have some sort of majority there. It changes nothing I said

If you liked the HoT maps, good for you, I didn’t like HoT maps for reasons valid for myself and may be a few more and I’m not trying to convince you that I’m right or change your mind about it.

If a map is too hard or does not align my goals or my playing time frame, I don’t go there anymore.

for example. Since HoT launch, I have been to Dragon Stand less than fingers of my one hand. And been to Cursed Shore and SW so frequent that I can’t remember. It has nothing to do with enjoying the zone or not. There is a massive grind job in game to make ascended gear to keep up with my limited weekly play time that I feel being in DS is to tedious, time consuming and less rewarding than CS or SW.

If you are using “enjoyed” in past tense, it means you are not going there anymore. if you are doing maps once and forgetting about them or waiting for a new map to come out and finish that too, means it is not a good map and I consider Lions Arch a better map, because players spend more time in there.

HoT zones are designed for groups of players, very well. I would like to see how those maps will work when everyone get busy with PoF zones. I already see less people in Verdant Brink and Lake Doric because they are busy grinding in other areas.

And lastly I won’t take anyone’s word for like or dislike if they are talking on behalf of “Everyone” or “Majority”, please show me your reference. And I don’t accept your word as fact if you are saying because “I” could do it, “Everyone” can do it or the other way. Not everyone is playing in your style, internet connection, ping, latency, hardware, timezone, guild, gear, character configuration and many more different factors.

bobsort.4097:

If you liked the HoT maps, good for you, I didn’t like HoT maps for reasons valid for myself and may be a few more and I’m not trying to convince you that I’m right or change your mind about it.

If a map is too hard or does not align my goals or my playing time frame, I don’t go there anymore.

for example. Since HoT launch, I have been to Dragon Stand less than fingers of my one hand. And been to Cursed Shore and SW so frequent that I can’t remember. It has nothing to do with enjoying the zone or not. There is a massive grind job in game to make ascended gear to keep up with my limited weekly play time that I feel being in DS is to tedious, time consuming and less rewarding than CS or SW.

If you are using “enjoyed” in past tense, it means you are not going there anymore. if you are doing maps once and forgetting about them or waiting for a new map to come out and finish that too, means it is not a good map and I consider Lions Arch a better map, because players spend more time in there.

HoT zones are designed for groups of players, very well. I would like to see how those maps will work when everyone get busy with PoF zones. I already see less people in Verdant Brink and Lake Doric because they are busy grinding in other areas.

And lastly I won’t take anyone’s word for like or dislike if they are talking on behalf of “Everyone” or “Majority”, please show me your reference. And I don’t accept your word as fact if you are saying because “I” could do it, “Everyone” can do it or the other way. Not everyone is playing in your style, internet connection, ping, latency, hardware, timezone, guild, gear, character configuration and many more different factors.

And this is exactly my point. There are people on these forums who talk about how bad HoT is, not how they don’t like it. I don’t really care if anyone likes or doesn’t like HoT, plenty of people still playing it and people will continue to play it because its’ the only way to get HoT legendaries, among other things.

But the same objection you seem to have, I seem to have to. People are actually saying things like dragon stand is never done, or that no one is doing HoT maps and that’s factually untrue. That’s where I draw the line.

Vayne.8563:

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

Zoltreez.6435:

Vayne.8563:

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

There’s a difference between an opinion and a fact. YOU found them annoying. I didn’t find them annoying. Ergo they are annoying to you and not to me.

The HoT maps I found interesting. I now find some of the core Tyria maps to be rather dull.

But you know, it’s a matter of opinion, and that’s all it is.

You are right it is opinion.

But the OP said he was a PvP player. If he was a good one he would find HOT simply annoying.

In S5 of PvP i got to PLat 2 and ended in Plat 1 just 40 or so points away from a top 250 spot.

Alot of the PvP players i knew, ran threw raids. Simply adjusted PvE builds to finish the content quickly without fail. I mean 2 of them carried me threw a Xera run with 5 people.

So to point out, HOT wasnt challenging content for alot of players it was simply annoying.

This goes for everyone, the reason many people like me think it failed was because it simply ruined many aspects of the game.

HOT killed the PvP scene with GW2 losing ESL as well as ESL teams quiting 2 minutes into a match because the meta and HOT specs were just so bad. WvW had the same effect with 50 man zergs insta dying from the speed of which combat had changed without a way of fighting back.

Then you get to PvE where Anet failed in putting this " hard " content in certain areas. For instance when GW 2 first came out Orr was a difficult area to play in, the great argument was it was suppose to be. And there were 16+ other maps you could farm, explore, find JP, kill bosses in. They eventually nerfed Orr ( wasnt not a fan of that) and to me there was no reason to.

HOT comes out and no it wasnt hard but having to wait for a meta map timer in 3 maps and then having to coordinate bosses and completing events. They eventually came out with maps for the casual PvE crowd. They were not appealing to the X % of the player base while ruining PvP and WvW of the other player bases.

HOT unlike core GW2 did not give a little to everyone but simply gave to a certain player base which was coordinated PvE.

So of course there is more threads about HOT being annoying since HOT brought alot in one area and killed off others.

I know people who PvP and WvW all the time who don’t do well in HoT content. Being a PvP player doesn’t give you some special secret powers to be good at everything . Just saying.

More to the point,j one of the guys in my guild is most a WvW player, plays a ton of PvP and didn’t find HoT annoying at all. He enjoys it as a break from PvP and WvW.

You can’t paint everyone with one brush. It’s still an opinion and you can’t even know that you have some sort of majority there. It changes nothing I said

See this is my point, you never take into accounts what anyone is saying.

Alot of people are saying they do not like it and you always counter argu with well i like it and my friends like it.

You never take into account the facts such as Anet having to combine 3-4 servers together for WvW when before HOT they didnt have combine any servers.

Or the fact that players where in the 1800 for ratings for PvP and then it was high 16XX because alot of players left.

We wont take that into consideration or the fact Anet kept saying " going back to basics" when bringing out that POF trailer.

Im happy for you and your friends and glad you love the game as much as you too. Yet you jump on the forums and defend it without ever really saying much other then " i can do it, my guild members do it and therefore its not a issue " which isnt the case for what seems to be alot of the GW2 community since the selling rate of HOT was really really low.

But i guess we will see when POF comes out.

kdaddy.5431:

which isnt the case for what seems to be alot of the GW2 community since the selling rate of HOT was really really low.

What does the difficulty of HoT zones have to do with HoT sales? Those who complain about the difficulty of HoT already bought it.

I wouldn’t call the sales of HoT “really really low”, do you have something to back that up? Someone officially claiming that the game indeed sold really low? Because the lack of revenue after the release of HoT can also be attributed to the core game going free to play and not being good enough to increase the sales of the expansion. And that conversion of free players into paid customers was indeed confirmed as one of the causes for the reduction in revenue, while the sales of HoT weren’t.

PoF already did something good, it is much better priced than HoT, so it’s likely to attract more customers for that fact alone.

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

Zoltreez.6435:

Vayne.8563:

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

There’s a difference between an opinion and a fact. YOU found them annoying. I didn’t find them annoying. Ergo they are annoying to you and not to me.

The HoT maps I found interesting. I now find some of the core Tyria maps to be rather dull.

But you know, it’s a matter of opinion, and that’s all it is.

You are right it is opinion.

But the OP said he was a PvP player. If he was a good one he would find HOT simply annoying.

In S5 of PvP i got to PLat 2 and ended in Plat 1 just 40 or so points away from a top 250 spot.

Alot of the PvP players i knew, ran threw raids. Simply adjusted PvE builds to finish the content quickly without fail. I mean 2 of them carried me threw a Xera run with 5 people.

So to point out, HOT wasnt challenging content for alot of players it was simply annoying.

This goes for everyone, the reason many people like me think it failed was because it simply ruined many aspects of the game.

HOT killed the PvP scene with GW2 losing ESL as well as ESL teams quiting 2 minutes into a match because the meta and HOT specs were just so bad. WvW had the same effect with 50 man zergs insta dying from the speed of which combat had changed without a way of fighting back.

Then you get to PvE where Anet failed in putting this " hard " content in certain areas. For instance when GW 2 first came out Orr was a difficult area to play in, the great argument was it was suppose to be. And there were 16+ other maps you could farm, explore, find JP, kill bosses in. They eventually nerfed Orr ( wasnt not a fan of that) and to me there was no reason to.

HOT comes out and no it wasnt hard but having to wait for a meta map timer in 3 maps and then having to coordinate bosses and completing events. They eventually came out with maps for the casual PvE crowd. They were not appealing to the X % of the player base while ruining PvP and WvW of the other player bases.

HOT unlike core GW2 did not give a little to everyone but simply gave to a certain player base which was coordinated PvE.

So of course there is more threads about HOT being annoying since HOT brought alot in one area and killed off others.

I know people who PvP and WvW all the time who don’t do well in HoT content. Being a PvP player doesn’t give you some special secret powers to be good at everything . Just saying.

More to the point,j one of the guys in my guild is most a WvW player, plays a ton of PvP and didn’t find HoT annoying at all. He enjoys it as a break from PvP and WvW.

You can’t paint everyone with one brush. It’s still an opinion and you can’t even know that you have some sort of majority there. It changes nothing I said

See this is my point, you never take into accounts what anyone is saying.

Alot of people are saying they do not like it and you always counter argu with well i like it and my friends like it.

You never take into account the facts such as Anet having to combine 3-4 servers together for WvW when before HOT they didnt have combine any servers.

Or the fact that players where in the 1800 for ratings for PvP and then it was high 16XX because alot of players left.

We wont take that into consideration or the fact Anet kept saying " going back to basics" when bringing out that POF trailer.

Im happy for you and your friends and glad you love the game as much as you too. Yet you jump on the forums and defend it without ever really saying much other then " i can do it, my guild members do it and therefore its not a issue " which isnt the case for what seems to be alot of the GW2 community since the selling rate of HOT was really really low.

But i guess we will see when POF comes out.

You never take into account that the number of people saying they don’t like it seem to be about equal to the number of people who say they do, and the amount of people complaining is virtually always greater than they number of people defending.

You also don’t seem to take into account that before those server reassignments, there were tiers of WvW that were so dead, they might not have existed at all….long before HoT. People used to complain about them quite frequently.

The solution had always been to transfer to a busier server, leaving those servers deader and deader. But again this was all going on long before HoT.

The problem isn’t that I’m saying I like it and lots of people like it, since I didn’t make a thread saying that. I’m responding to a thread where other people are claiming other things.

My response is a counterpoint to claims made by others. I’m not starting my own threads about how great HoT is. I’m simply expressing my opinion that things aren’t so black and white, and with good reason.

We’ve seen on this very forum that people had avoided buying hot for long periods of time only to find out they like it and it’s fun. They avoided buying it because of posts on those forums that painted it as hard, or frustrating or what have you.

It doesn’t matter if you agree or not. I’m perfectly entitled to post on these forums a counterpoint to what’s being said, so people reading a thread that will stay on the front page for weeks on end at least gives both sides of the story.

maddoctor.2738:

kdaddy.5431:

which isnt the case for what seems to be alot of the GW2 community since the selling rate of HOT was really really low.

What does the difficulty of HoT zones have to do with HoT sales? Those who complain about the difficulty of HoT already bought it.

I wouldn’t call the sales of HoT “really really low”, do you have something to back that up? Someone officially claiming that the game indeed sold really low? Because the lack of revenue after the release of HoT can also be attributed to the core game going free to play and not being good enough to increase the sales of the expansion. And that conversion of free players into paid customers was indeed confirmed as one of the causes for the reduction in revenue, while the sales of HoT weren’t.

PoF already did something good, it is much better priced than HoT, so it’s likely to attract more customers for that fact alone.

Actually the difficulty could affect sales. If you have a lot of people complaining about it, casuals might not buy it even if they would be able to deal with it. That’s what I keep saying. Half the problem is the bad publicity but I don’t think the dislike of hot is as wide spread as people seem to think.

Try posting some of the stuff you see here on reddit and you’ll see how faster the community downvotes it.

Wasn´t a fan of HoT, probably never will be. But it has already been nerfed, and mobs were in my opinion never the problem of HoT.
It was the nauseaing navigation and the greek minotaur bait they call a map named tangle depths. Add that to virtually walling everything behind meta or gliding and you get a very frustrated me. I saw some places only with the help of a friend because I would have wandered that maze for days, and that is just not fun for me.

I also have to give Vayne some credit here. Although he is a pretty unapologetic white knight most of the time, he does not say hooray to everything Anet produces.

I liked the difficulty of HoT from the beginning. I love the complexity of the maps.

Doesn’t change that HoT was a failure that ANet feels to correct with PoF (and indirecty stated that in the PoF announcement).

The lessons learned (as I see them):

1. Mobs
HoT mobs have been overtuned, everything was deadly from the start. Normal mobs felt like veterans, veterans like elites etc.
PoF: normal mobs are easy to kill, veterans seem a bit tougher than in vanilla.

Lesson learned: People like to feel strong. If people get destroyed by trash mobs, they get frustrated. Feeling strong is back in PoF.

2. Maps
HoT: Very complex, very challenging to navigate and crowded with mobs, very confusing layer-wise.
PoF: Maps are open and wide, mob density is down by a lot. More space, more overview, easy to navigate.

Lesson learned: People just don’t like to get lost all the time and miss events because they can’t get anywhere.

3. Masteries:
HoT: Tons of different masteries, most of them very restricted in use. Double gated (in case of raid mastery even triple gated) by xp and mastery points.
PoF: Very limited amount of masteries. Still double gated.

Lesson learned: Too many filler masteries makes leveling masteries feel like a terrible grind. Casual players feel like left behind.

4. Story
HoT: Total failure to deliver. Don’t know who is more confused, the writers or the players who try to understand what’s going on.
PoF: I pray to five of the six gods that they don’t mess it up again.

Lesson learned: Please let ANet have learned their lesson in story telling.

There is more, but I got other stuff to do.

Lol, I JUST posted a review as well. Sorry, I should’ve posted it here. Oh well. : /

Zoltreez.6435:

Vayne.8563:

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

I do not love challenges, and difficulty CAN be an issue for me.

I play GW2 to have fun, be entertained and pass time.
I do not (want to) play GW2 to be challenged, be annoyed or waste time.

dagrdagaz.4913:

Zoltreez.6435:

Vayne.8563:

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

I do not love challenges, and difficulty CAN be an issue for me.

I play GW2 to have fun, be entertained and pass time.
I do not (want to) play GW2 to be challenged, be annoyed or waste time.

I’m in the same boat as you. I simply don’t find HoT maps that challenging. I just have to actually pay attention. I don’t see value in running around zones that I can beat with any build, predominantly using my 1 skill. It doesn’t make me feel heroic. I don’t feel like I’m in a war zone.

I complete VB and AB to relax before bed.

I replayed HoT yesterday for the first time in two years. I have to say I enjoy it more the second time around. The map objectives were cut out and I don’t have to grind masteries anymore. IMO, the HoT story is better than the mess we had in season 3. It had flaws, though.

I find the maps super annoying to navigate around.