Just Finished HoT and...

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Where as I loved HoT maps and they saved the game for me It was too easy before. It seems like the playerbase is quite split about if HoT was good or not. I expect a mix of content going forward.

there is a difference betwin something being Annoying or Hard….

Difficulty is not realy an issue for players… people love challenges…
but if the ONLY difficulty is that its being annoying as hell then thats trash…

and hot maps are nothing else then annoying…

No they dont the moment someone cant get something the first or secnd time with the glass thief that something becomes a chore.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Danicus.4952

Danicus.4952

I agree with you bladezero. I see many familiar faces posting the usual fanboy smackdown on anyone that did not enjoy the supermario jumparound. Just wait till you try out the LS maps with a new mobility mastery over and over and over. I really miss the old game. I guess the platformer crowd needed an mmo space and GW2 became that. Hang in there.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: TwoGhosts.6790

TwoGhosts.6790

I agree with you bladezero. I see many familiar faces posting the usual fanboy smackdown on anyone that did not enjoy the supermario jumparound. Just wait till you try out the LS maps with a new mobility mastery over and over and over. I really miss the old game. I guess the platformer crowd needed an mmo space and GW2 became that. Hang in there.

Don’t confuse alternative views and different opinions with ‘fanboy smackdown’.

Some people don’t enjoy HoT (and LS3 I guess).

Some people on the other hand enjoy, or have come to enjoy, both.

Compared to my experience of the core game, HoT was a bewildering and terrifying place to me for quite some time (‘annoying’ and ‘too difficult’ some people might say). But gradually I improved my gameplay – how to gear, set up and play my characters better (coming to understand the game properly for the first time) – and then I mastered the maps.

By the time I came to the LS3 maps (which I’ve enjoyed just as much as the HoT maps) I was immediately able to dive right in and solo most of the content, thoroughly enjoying myself as I explored the new areas. Great fun!

Some people in these threads (I think Vayne among them) have pointed out that they often reply to negative threads in the hope that an alternate, more positive viewpoint might help potential new players decide whether they’d like to try the game. I think this is a good thing; more players is good for a company that produces a game that I enjoy playing.

You’re not going to convince me that I don’t like HoT/LS3, and I’m not going to convince you that you do. That doesn’t make me a ‘white knight / fanboy’ and it doesn’t make you a ‘hater’.

It’s not a problem, it’s just a difference of opinion.

~TG

PS – I’m not a ‘platformer’ (and I’m terrible a JPs), and I’ve never played Super Mario or anything like it in my life.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I agree with you bladezero. I see many familiar faces posting the usual fanboy smackdown on anyone that did not enjoy the supermario jumparound. Just wait till you try out the LS maps with a new mobility mastery over and over and over. I really miss the old game. I guess the platformer crowd needed an mmo space and GW2 became that. Hang in there.

Don’t confuse alternative views and different opinions with ‘fanboy smackdown’.

Some people don’t enjoy HoT (and LS3 I guess).

Some people on the other hand enjoy, or have come to enjoy, both.

Compared to my experience of the core game, HoT was a bewildering and terrifying place to me for quite some time (‘annoying’ and ‘too difficult’ some people might say). But gradually I improved my gameplay – how to gear, set up and play my characters better (coming to understand the game properly for the first time) – and then I mastered the maps.

By the time I came to the LS3 maps (which I’ve enjoyed just as much as the HoT maps) I was immediately able to dive right in and solo most of the content, thoroughly enjoying myself as I explored the new areas. Great fun!

Some people in these threads (I think Vayne among them) have pointed out that they often reply to negative threads in the hope that an alternate, more positive viewpoint might help potential new players decide whether they’d like to try the game. I think this is a good thing; more players is good for a company that produces a game that I enjoy playing.

You’re not going to convince me that I don’t like HoT/LS3, and I’m not going to convince you that you do. That doesn’t make me a ‘white knight / fanboy’ and it doesn’t make you a ‘hater’.

It’s not a problem, it’s just a difference of opinion.

~TG

PS – I’m not a ‘platformer’ (and I’m terrible a JPs), and I’ve never played Super Mario or anything like it in my life.

Thanks for this. People use terms like white knight or mindless fan boi to dismiss the opinions of others far too frequently on these forums.

I run a casual guild, ultra casual and I’ve seen a lot of people who started like you did, scared of the jungle, having trouble making headway and most of them…a vast majority have become better players due to it and very very few remain scared of the jungle and quite a few visit regularly.

It feels like people are defending their right to not get good at the game sometimes. HoT does have a relatively high learning curve, but it can be learned

Glad to see you’re enjoying yourself.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Dashingsteel.3410

Dashingsteel.3410

Op never mentioned HoT as being too difficult

He rather pointed out that it was more a chore than fun to play. He expressed dismay at HoT turning the game into a movement skill based game filled with powerups(mushrooms, updrafts, wallows, etc.) which are just extra hoops you have to go though to traverse the map as compared to vanilla gw2. He didn’t seem to enjoy the rat in a maze experience that HoT delivers.

This is not a “git gud” problem. This has to do with gaming style not difficulty.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: DeadTreeJig.6714

DeadTreeJig.6714

I’m not a fan of the HoT maps. After finishing the story and MPs I find the only reason I go back is if I am depressed and feel like being even more unhappy.

Actually, I don’t mind the Auric Basin. I avoid VB and only go to TD and DS for the meta events.

When a man lies he murders some part of the world – Paul Gerhardt
Just so we’re clear, I’m a solo player – Kirito
Live, Laugh, Love Kill Dredge – DedTreeJig

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: TwoGhosts.6790

TwoGhosts.6790

Op never mentioned HoT as being too difficult

He rather pointed out that it was more a chore than fun to play. He expressed dismay at HoT turning the game into a movement skill based game filled with powerups(mushrooms, updrafts, wallows, etc.) which are just extra hoops you have to go though to traverse the map as compared to vanilla gw2. He didn’t seem to enjoy the rat in a maze experience that HoT delivers.

This is not a “git gud” problem. This has to do with gaming style not difficulty.

That’s a good point.

But, again, I don’t agree with the assessment of HoT as ‘rat in a maze.’ Yes, the movement mechanics are fundamental to the HoT experience (and completely different to core Tyria maps), but the gliding (and updraft) mechanics were declared as defining feature of HoT – for me, making that a progressive and challenging feature was actually a fun aspect to the gameplay. It has also completely changed the way in which I play in core maps also (for the better), and the recent implementation of gliding into WvW is also a great experiment (some people don’t like it, but I think it’s great).

Anyway, you’re right, for this OP it’s not a ‘git gud’ issue.

But, for a lot of players, the change in difficulty of the HoT experience also seems to be an issue. For me, it certainly paid a large part in my reassessment of the game and my place in it; could I rise to the challenge? I suppose I ‘got gud’, and as a result have come to love the Hot (and LS3) maps.

Again, my main point was that, legitimately, people have very different opinions about HoT; that it’s perfectly OK to express an oposing point of view to an OP (and perhaps, thereby, present a more balanced ‘review’ of the game and encourage prospective players to give a go).

~TG

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Op never mentioned HoT as being too difficult

He rather pointed out that it was more a chore than fun to play. He expressed dismay at HoT turning the game into a movement skill based game filled with powerups(mushrooms, updrafts, wallows, etc.) which are just extra hoops you have to go though to traverse the map as compared to vanilla gw2. He didn’t seem to enjoy the rat in a maze experience that HoT delivers.

This is not a “git gud” problem. This has to do with gaming style not difficulty.

That’s true, but it was covered the post I replied to. That person said he doesn’t like jumping puzzles or platform games and he’s not good at those but he’s learned to enjoy HoT, which he apparently doesn’t equate with those. He also said that he learned to enjoy the maze part.

It’s okay if you and a few others personally believe that a jumping mushroom that’s nothing more than a visual teleport is somehow platforming, but it’s not a fact. The OP can say it’s platforming but I’m a platformer and I can assure you it’s not For all intents and purposes there is very little platforming in HoT.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Dashingsteel.3410

Dashingsteel.3410

@Vayne….. I agree that HoT is not a platformer. That is why I specifically said movement skill based game.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

@Vayne….. I agree that HoT is not a platformer. That is why I specifically said movement skill based game.

The problem is too many people do call it a platformer. Some quite often and loudly. This game has always had vistas you needed to get to that required a certain amount of high eye coordination, but you could still get portals. The same is true with HoT.

It’s an embellishment of what has always existed here.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Dashingsteel.3410

Dashingsteel.3410

vanilla gw2 did not require powerups(updrafts, mushrooms, wallows) to reach places…… Those are extra hoops you have to go through to get around competently in the HoT maps. Going from updraft to another updraft is just a time waster when in vanilla gw2 you could be moving directly to your destination.

I know some people enjoy this stuff but unfortunately I don’t

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

vanilla gw2 did not require powerups(updrafts, mushrooms, wallows) to reach places…… Those are extra hoops you have to go through to get around competently in the HoT maps. Going from updraft to another updraft is just a time waster when in vanilla gw2 you could be moving directly to your destination.

I know some people enjoy this stuff but unfortunately I don’t

It’s a form of puzzle, thus the progression. That’s pretty much what progression means. Saying I can do these jumps as opposed to catch these updrafts is a style preference, but then, the game has been heading in this direction since before HoT.

Dry Top came out before HoT and you needed crystals to get to certain places. All we’re seeing is a progression

In the original game, there’s a vista or poi, I don’t remember which, that required you to talk to an asura who gives you a gun, the only way to reach it before gliding is to shoot yourself to it. There’s another vista in Diessa Plateau that requires you to do an event to use a cannon to shoot yourself at a vista.

And of course, there were three vistas locked behind jumping puzzles.

Progression means to take something futher. The game started with these things and now takes it further. You’re entitled to like or not like it but if you listen to what some of the people who don’t like it are saying, and you view it with any impartiality at all, you’ll see that the use of hyperbole is rife. That people who don’t like it will in some cases misrepresent the product.

We’ve seen people say that people aren’t playing HoT. We’ve seen them say HoT events aren’t being done. We see them saying that HoT is dead. We’ve seen them say it’s a platformer.

HoT is a progression of the game. We’ve had jumping puzzles no we have gliding puzzles. You’re right, you don’t have to like it, But it was always where the game was going. Expansions do expand the game. HoT is expanding the options dev have for creating the kind of puzzles some people obviously enjoy.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Dashingsteel.3410

Dashingsteel.3410

You see it as progression. I don’t. Progression implies some sort of improvement and I don’t think Nintendo gaming is an improvement to gw2.

It is a different direction than vanilla gw2 but not necessarily a better direction.

(edited by Dashingsteel.3410)

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

You see it as progression. I don’t. Progression implies some sort of improvement and I don’t think Nintendo gaming is an improvement to gw2.

It is a different direction than vanilla gw2 but not necessarily a better direction.

Forward movement on a path is progression along that path even if one does not care for where the path leads.

So HoT can be said to progress elements introduced in LS2.

Of course, in tbis context, progression does not necessarily mean improvement.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

You see it as progression. I don’t. Progression implies some sort of improvement and I don’t think Nintendo gaming is an improvement to gw2.

It is a different direction than vanilla gw2 but not necessarily a better direction.

Progression doesn’t imply improvement. It implies progression. You can make progress toward at goal, that’s true. However, the number progression 2, 4, 8, 16…that’s a progression too. That is to say that when something starts, it gets bigger, more complex, not necessarily better.

On the other hand it’s better for me. That’s the thing with opinions. Everyone has one and it doesn’t matter, unless we can know how many people don’t like something.

The problem with HOT is that it ticked boxes for different people. People who don’t know how to play their characters didn’t like HoT but some people wouldn’t have minded the difficulty of the mobs if the map wasn’t so confusing and some people wouldn’t have minded either if it wasn’t on a timer, and some people wouldn’t have minded any of that if it werent’ for the price. Dungeon runners got kittened off because their rewards were nerfed which had little to do with HOT at all, but it still cost the company players at that time.

A number of bad decisions were made early on which meant HoT never really had the chance to see if it was going to be a good expansion. There was too much noise around the launch that blocked any attempt to sell it. That’s down to Anet though.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: bobsort.4097

bobsort.4097

I simply don’t find HoT maps that challenging.

….

I don’t see value in running around zones that I can beat with any build, predominantly using my 1 skill. It doesn’t make me feel heroic. I don’t feel like I’m in a war zone.

I complete VB and AB to relax before bed.

I suggest you join marines and have tour to Iraq for a real feeling of war, challenging and heroic. Games are for entertainment and leisure time to have fun and get away from daily stress at work, school, life pressures and not add to them

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

I simply don’t find HoT maps that challenging.

….

I don’t see value in running around zones that I can beat with any build, predominantly using my 1 skill. It doesn’t make me feel heroic. I don’t feel like I’m in a war zone.

I complete VB and AB to relax before bed.

I suggest you join marines and have tour to Iraq for a real feeling of war, challenging and heroic. Games are for entertainment and leisure time to have fun and get away from daily stress at work, school, life pressures and not add to them

This is a game about a war.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I simply don’t find HoT maps that challenging.

….

I don’t see value in running around zones that I can beat with any build, predominantly using my 1 skill. It doesn’t make me feel heroic. I don’t feel like I’m in a war zone.

I complete VB and AB to relax before bed.

I suggest you join marines and have tour to Iraq for a real feeling of war, challenging and heroic. Games are for entertainment and leisure time to have fun and get away from daily stress at work, school, life pressures and not add to them

I don’t think you get to define what games are all by yourself. SOME people play games to relax. Others take games more seriously and play competitively. However, I find VB fun and relaxing, so in fact, I play games for the same reason you do.

Verdant Brink really isn’t that hard, and therefore it could be fun and relaxing if you had the level of skill to make it so.

Playing catch is hard if you have poor hand eye coordination, but some people find it relaxing. And some people start off not being able to throw or catch and then they practice and get better at it.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: alceste.8712

alceste.8712

Since the OP was from a pvper, I can understand that being forced to do coordinated pve events in order to be viable in pvp was annoying. HoT very much catered to the coordinated pve oriented players from raids to meta events. There really was not much content for other types of players.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: takatsu.9416

takatsu.9416

I simply don’t find HoT maps that challenging.

….

I don’t see value in running around zones that I can beat with any build, predominantly using my 1 skill. It doesn’t make me feel heroic. I don’t feel like I’m in a war zone.

I complete VB and AB to relax before bed.

I suggest you join marines and have tour to Iraq for a real feeling of war, challenging and heroic. Games are for entertainment and leisure time to have fun and get away from daily stress at work, school, life pressures and not add to them

I play pretty casually these days, most of the time I stand around in a city chatting, use some tonics, but then I have my thrill seeking moments and fidgety moments and moments where I want to feel pretty satisfied by overcoming some really tough challenges in game, there are so many reasons and moods to play a game. usually it’s like at most 30 min when I go solo some stuff that isn’t meant to be solo’d. sometimes I just want some good gear or build craft. some ridiculous moments I just strip naked and run at the boss. all of it is fun to me. if it’s just for relaxation, play candy crush or something right? there are many options and styles of playing. and for some reason I feel like most complaining comes from folks who are so serious and impatient and not relaxing about the rewards and wanting to just get stuff over with they get frustrated when it’s not being handed over so easily. if anyone wants to play easy content and relax run around in low level zones in Tyria and take screenshots? I think frustration simply comes from the player and their own state of mind and control of their own emotions tbh

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: lighter.2708

lighter.2708

should have shake up the variation of maps, at first i saw the golden city trailer i thought there would be a map only for the city with relaxing event and stuff, like a relaxing place in the desert or something of that concept

but no, 4 maps are all the same annoying disaster, not challenging, but annoying..to even simply navigate

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

I don’t see why having an opinion is such a controversial thing.

Personally disliked most of the HoT maps. Verdant Brink wasn’t bad. Like Auric Basin but Tangled Depths is annoying. My dislike of HoT was how the majority of the content was hard locked by the masteries which, when i started HoT, had no clue how to get more mastery points outside of the ones marked on the map (which weren’t enough). Even to this day, i am limited in mastery points until i do achievements i don’t want to do but at least the remaining masteries aren’t necessary to progress.

The reason i don’t like Tangled Depths is because the visual map is useless as a guide. At least Verdant Brink was open enough that i could explore to find out how to get somewhere or if you’re able to reach it.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t see why having an opinion is such a controversial thing.

Personally disliked most of the HoT maps. Verdant Brink wasn’t bad. Like Auric Basin but Tangled Depths is annoying. My dislike of HoT was how the majority of the content was hard locked by the masteries which, when i started HoT, had no clue how to get more mastery points outside of the ones marked on the map (which weren’t enough). Even to this day, i am limited in mastery points until i do achievements i don’t want to do but at least the remaining masteries aren’t necessary to progress.

The reason i don’t like Tangled Depths is because the visual map is useless as a guide. At least Verdant Brink was open enough that i could explore to find out how to get somewhere or if you’re able to reach it.

Having an opinion isn’t a bad thing and no one ever said it was. However, there are people who say things which aren’t opinion, stated as fact that aren’t true. I don’t care if people like or don’t like HoT if they don’t imply they’re in some kind of majority, if they don’t say hot can’t be soloed, if they don’t say that no one is playing it any more, or Dragon Stand is dead.

There are also opinions based on things not true. One person wrote that they hated VB because you had to wait for the choppers to get to the canopy to complete the zone, which simply isn’t true.

The problem is the amount of misinformation floating around. As long as that continues, plenty of people who might have enjoyed HOT won’t even try it because there’s such a loud voice of people that are annoyed by it.

I get it,. You don’t like HoT. But there are people who bought it late due to the loud voices on the forums, that ended up enjoying it

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

I don’t see why having an opinion is such a controversial thing.

Personally disliked most of the HoT maps. Verdant Brink wasn’t bad. Like Auric Basin but Tangled Depths is annoying. My dislike of HoT was how the majority of the content was hard locked by the masteries which, when i started HoT, had no clue how to get more mastery points outside of the ones marked on the map (which weren’t enough). Even to this day, i am limited in mastery points until i do achievements i don’t want to do but at least the remaining masteries aren’t necessary to progress.

The reason i don’t like Tangled Depths is because the visual map is useless as a guide. At least Verdant Brink was open enough that i could explore to find out how to get somewhere or if you’re able to reach it.

Yes, the majority of content is locked behind masteries…a whole 4 points worth of them (bounce mushrooms, basic gliding, updrafts). By earning about as much experience as it took you to level from 70-80, you can explore all but a handful of objectives and complete every meta!

All I can figure is that the gameplay is simply so unappealing that players who dislike HoT want to spend as little time there as possible. How else to explain why 4 mastery points is such a barrier to enjoyment or why taking your time to explore a map is unacceptable to a so-called “casual” population that shouldn’t be in a rush to complete objectives in the first place?

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: symke.3105

symke.3105

I don’t see why having an opinion is such a controversial thing.

Personally disliked most of the HoT maps. Verdant Brink wasn’t bad. Like Auric Basin but Tangled Depths is annoying. My dislike of HoT was how the majority of the content was hard locked by the masteries which, when i started HoT, had no clue how to get more mastery points outside of the ones marked on the map (which weren’t enough). Even to this day, i am limited in mastery points until i do achievements i don’t want to do but at least the remaining masteries aren’t necessary to progress.

The reason i don’t like Tangled Depths is because the visual map is useless as a guide. At least Verdant Brink was open enough that i could explore to find out how to get somewhere or if you’re able to reach it.

Yes, the majority of content is locked behind masteries…a whole 4 points worth of them (bounce mushrooms, basic gliding, updrafts). By earning about as much experience as it took you to level from 70-80, you can explore all but a handful of objectives and complete every meta!

All I can figure is that the gameplay is simply so unappealing that players who dislike HoT want to spend as little time there as possible. How else to explain why 4 mastery points is such a barrier to enjoyment or why taking your time to explore a map is unacceptable to a so-called “casual” population that shouldn’t be in a rush to complete objectives in the first place?

I’ve been in similar shoes as OP. My first experience with HOT maps left me feeling like I am playing a different game than what core GW2 offers. I’ve adjusted to enemy difficulty, earned necessary masteries in gliding and mushrooms and now I can traverse those zones more easily. I also adjusted to how group oriented those zones are. I don’t like it, but if I go there I expect it and prepare myself for it.

What I still can’t adjust to or accept as good, is zone and map design. I would really like to know what mushrooms devs were using when they were designing them. I would like to try them.

As someone who hates jumping puzzles with a passion, HOT zones and especially how you are “forced” to travel them just reminds me too much of them. You want to get to that particular part of the map? You open map and after some time, when you think you have successfully decripted what you are seeing , you decide to use the road ahead of you to get there.
Nope. You have to jump on a branch, use glider to that mushroom, open a portal which summons Conan and after you have successfully paid tribute to ham and cheese sandwich and scratched your behind, you find a path to where you wanted to go.

I like gliding and mushroom jumping. I mean who doesn’t like to go “Wheeeeeee”, jump off a branch and spread wings. It’s wonderful. But unless you know where exactly to go, you will probably end dead or on a branch and no amount of map use will help you understand how to get back.

I, personaly, havent’ seen a map that is less useful. And zones look like they were designed with only gliding and mushroom use in mind. And all of that makes HOT zones into something that creates a perception of extremely narrow focus. Thus, we have those who like them and those who don’t.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Deihnyx.6318

Deihnyx.6318

If you just do it for the hero points. Just do WvW, you’ll get them much, much faster.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If you just do it for the hero points. Just do WvW, you’ll get them much, much faster.

I don’t know that that’s true. I can fully unlock a character’s elite spec in 2-3 hours, with perhaps another 2-3 hours on a single character to get the masteries I need to say participate in a hero train. So 4-6 hours in your first character, but once those masteries are leveled it’s 2-3 hours per character after. You’d need 250 proof of heroics per character, assuming you don’t want to spend them on anything else, I think that would be more time.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: eldrjth.7384

eldrjth.7384

Im only in the first zone of HoT but from what I played I didnt like. It reminds me a lot of super mario. I wouldnt have much problems with all the mazes and new mechanics if the player wasnt required to level up skills in order to access different areas but how it works now is unnecessarily convoluted. Zones separately by upgrades works in games like metroidvania because that is what the audience expects but not in mmos like guidwars. The core game didnt play anything like this either. *Maybe important upgrades shouldve just been story/quest related once a new zone is reached.

(edited by eldrjth.7384)

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Im only in the first zone of HoT but from what I played I didnt like. It reminds me a lot of super mario. I wouldnt have much problems with all the mazes and new mechanics if the player wasnt required to level up skills in order to access different areas but how it works now is unnecessarily convoluted. Zones separately by upgrades works in games like metroidvania because that is what the audience expects but not in mmos like guidwars. The core game didnt play anything like this either. *Maybe important upgrades shouldve just been story/quest related once a new zone is reached.

You can level up every single upgrade you need to navigate in a matter of hours. People make it sound like you can’t do this. If you just play the zones, yiou can run from one end of VB to the other without needing ANY masteries at all. Do event chains, do adventures, you’ll easily level up gliding, mushroom jumping and updraft use.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

I wouldn’t call the sales of HoT “really really low”, do you have something to back that up? Someone officially claiming that the game indeed sold really low? Because the lack of revenue after the release of HoT can also be attributed to the core game going free to play and not being good enough to increase the sales of the expansion. And that conversion of free players into paid customers was indeed confirmed as one of the causes for the reduction in revenue, while the sales of HoT weren’t.

In the earnings report for Q4/2015, NCSoft reports that GW2 made about $13.5M more in the HoT debut quarter than in other recent quarters, and that “other sales” (i.e., gem store) were “stable.” At the minimum $50 price, that’s 270,000 sales. Of course, for retail sales, ANet only got wholesale money. However, they also sold $75 and $100 packages. At a guess, they sold 300,000 copies, possibly more, in the release quarter.

Q1/2016 sales were also higher than the quarters leading into HoT. However, no statement was made as to the stability of gem sales. It seems likely that there were quite a few HoT copies sold, but nowhere near as many as Q4/2015 unless gem sales tanked. Doubtless, ANet sold more HoT copies since Q1/2016, but there are no indications of how many as they only report revenue, not where it comes from.

It seems possible they sold around 500,000 copies all told, but who knows? I tend to think that 600K is too high, and that 400K is too low, but I could be off at either end. Bottom line, though? We don’t really know.

I’ll leave it to someone else to decide if what we do know represents low sales or not.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Do event chains, do adventures, you’ll easily level up gliding, mushroom jumping and updraft use.

Yep, with just a few hours of effort you can have full access to game elements that you actively dislike using.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Do event chains, do adventures, you’ll easily level up gliding, mushroom jumping and updraft use.

Yep, with just a few hours of effort you can have full access to game elements that you actively dislike using.

Well if you actively dislike gliding, I don’t know what to tell you, but I would assume you’re in a vast minority. I’m also guessing most people don’t have an issue with jumping mushrooms. While there are mushrooms in mario brothers, they’re very differnet, because you have to aim your jumps. With jumping mushrooms it’s more like a visual teleport.

Saying you don’t like using a jumping mushroom isn’t much different from saying you don’t like using a portal

But if the biggest problem is that people don’t like gliding and jumping mushrooms I’m not thinking if all those people left it would be enough of a dent in the population to make a difference, certainly compared to the number of people who seem to really enjoy them.

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. I just don’t think all that many people share it, even if six, seven guys come and back you up in this thread.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: battledrone.8315

battledrone.8315

I wouldn’t call the sales of HoT “really really low”, do you have something to back that up? Someone officially claiming that the game indeed sold really low? Because the lack of revenue after the release of HoT can also be attributed to the core game going free to play and not being good enough to increase the sales of the expansion. And that conversion of free players into paid customers was indeed confirmed as one of the causes for the reduction in revenue, while the sales of HoT weren’t.

In the earnings report for Q4/2015, NCSoft reports that GW2 made about $13.5M more in the HoT debut quarter than in other recent quarters, and that “other sales” (i.e., gem store) were “stable.” At the minimum $50 price, that’s 270,000 sales. Of course, for retail sales, ANet only got wholesale money. However, they also sold $75 and $100 packages. At a guess, they sold 300,000 copies, possibly more, in the release quarter.

Q1/2016 sales were also higher than the quarters leading into HoT. However, no statement was made as to the stability of gem sales. It seems likely that there were quite a few HoT copies sold, but nowhere near as many as Q4/2015 unless gem sales tanked. Doubtless, ANet sold more HoT copies since Q1/2016, but there are no indications of how many as they only report revenue, not where it comes from.

It seems possible they sold around 500,000 copies all told, but who knows? I tend to think that 600K is too high, and that 400K is too low, but I could be off at either end. Bottom line, though? We don’t really know.

I’ll leave it to someone else to decide if what we do know represents low sales or not.

core GW2 sold roughly 1 mio copies a year, you cant get those numbers with a hardcore game
they had the goose, that lays golden eggs
first they starved it for 4 years
and then they traded it for one of those fugly bald cats
i havent seen such a waste of potential since SWTOR

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: battledrone.8315

battledrone.8315

Do event chains, do adventures, you’ll easily level up gliding, mushroom jumping and updraft use.

Yep, with just a few hours of effort you can have full access to game elements that you actively dislike using.

id rather put that effort into my apartment..its way more rewarding
and the fun factor is roughly the same

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

ANet sold more HoT copies since Q1/2016, but there are no indications of how many as they only report revenue, not where it comes from.

Yes. But if the gem store sales remained stable (a big if I know) then the reduced revenue in Q2 2016 and onwards compared to pre-Hot revenue is due to the game not selling anymore as much as the Heroic Edition did. And my argument is the game isn’t selling as much as the Heroic Edition days because of the free to play version, which fails to convert players into paid customers.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Do event chains, do adventures, you’ll easily level up gliding, mushroom jumping and updraft use.

Yep, with just a few hours of effort you can have full access to game elements that you actively dislike using.

id rather put that effort into my apartment..its way more rewarding
and the fun factor is roughly the same

I had a lot of fun doing the event chains in VB. Not sure why you didn’t.

Edit: I still go back and do those chains sometimes.

(edited by Vayne.8563)

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

Im only in the first zone of HoT but from what I played I didnt like. It reminds me a lot of super mario. I wouldnt have much problems with all the mazes and new mechanics if the player wasnt required to level up skills in order to access different areas but how it works now is unnecessarily convoluted. Zones separately by upgrades works in games like metroidvania because that is what the audience expects but not in mmos like guidwars. The core game didnt play anything like this either. *Maybe important upgrades shouldve just been story/quest related once a new zone is reached.

Unfortunately, there’s no cure for players who feel HoT is too “platform-y”. However, if your issue is having to unlock skills in order to navigate these maps, you don’t have much to worry about. Bounce mushrooms, basic gliding, and updrafts will get you almost everywhere you need to go. Most of the other masteries are QoL upgrades or allow access to a few gated objectives such as a POI, HP, or MP here and there.

I love the HoT maps, but I didn’t even bother unlocking all of the masteries for over a year. Many of the most expensive masteries aren’t required for map completion and aren’t critical to anything besides collections and achievements. In fact, I believe you only need 43 points in total to do full map completion of every map, which you can easily earn in the process of doing the story and map completion itself.

You could still map complete and wouldn’t be missing much of anything if you avoided the last 20 points of Itzel lore, the last 16 points of Exalted lore, the last 20 points of Nuhoch lore, and all 8 of the raid masteries (if you don’t raid, of course). In total there are 112 mastery points associated with the HoT maps. So you could literally skip half of them, still do full map complete, and still unlock all of the big QoL upgrades.

It’s really not as bad as you may have heard.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: nacario.9417

nacario.9417

Id say HoT was a success as it came with new, and that is change, something many learned not to like. Without HoT, you would still be a Jon Snow.

Power Ranger PvP
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Uruk.3215

Uruk.3215

Personally, I enjoyed and still enjoy Verdant Brink and Auric Basin. I think that those maps offer a pretty unique and interesting approach to map-design, with the vertical design and depth. The mobs are a bit tough though, but then again, those maps aren’t exactly supposed to be casual, pleasant places. They are a wild jungle full of deadly creatures and dragon minions where everyone and everything is out to get you, so I don’t really mind them much. I just learned to deal with them after a while. Though I admit that being constantly killed by mobs at start was a bit annoying. xD

Tangled Depths I have mixed feeling. Everything from above stands for this map as well, but the layout and design of the map might be a bit over-the-top in my opinion. The map is pretty confusing at start, and needlessly complicated and the mobs in lanes are pretty tightly packed, especially the Chak. But once you get the hang of everything, it’s alright. Not exactly the best map for soloing but super fun to do in zergs.

I don’t personally enjoy Dragon’s Stand because it feels like the map is there purely for the meta event and the limited time I got left to spend there is also off-putting.

But then again, I also think that the PoF map we got to see is also pretty cool and I hope that the rest of them are also good.

All in all, I’m glad that the game has such a nice variety of map designs. If PoF finds a nice balance between the core Tyria and HoT maps, then I’m sure that it will be quite a success.

Seek wisdom in darkness.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Amineo.8951

Amineo.8951

The timegated stuff in the expansion made me hate the game even more, especially now that I’m gathering everything I need for the Shining Blade and Legendary Armor.

All I have to say is that I seriously hope there’s nothing like Tangled Depths and Dragon’s Stand in PoF, these maps are horrible…

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Shilajit.9023

Shilajit.9023

I found HoT maps are extremely entertaining .
I know i know very unpopular opinion but only map i don’t like much is Auric Basin(not much depth to it) .
Tangled depth is the best designed map so far (and no it’s not a sarcasm).
Never had problem with harder mobs in the area even before the nerf ( have to keep eyes open and have to have an idea of the map though).

Selling salts to the Salty people.
Only Gankdara Ele

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

I don’t see why having an opinion is such a controversial thing.

Personally disliked most of the HoT maps. Verdant Brink wasn’t bad. Like Auric Basin but Tangled Depths is annoying. My dislike of HoT was how the majority of the content was hard locked by the masteries which, when i started HoT, had no clue how to get more mastery points outside of the ones marked on the map (which weren’t enough). Even to this day, i am limited in mastery points until i do achievements i don’t want to do but at least the remaining masteries aren’t necessary to progress.

The reason i don’t like Tangled Depths is because the visual map is useless as a guide. At least Verdant Brink was open enough that i could explore to find out how to get somewhere or if you’re able to reach it.

Yes, the majority of content is locked behind masteries…a whole 4 points worth of them (bounce mushrooms, basic gliding, updrafts). By earning about as much experience as it took you to level from 70-80, you can explore all but a handful of objectives and complete every meta!

No, there were points in the playthrough of the story, I had to grind out Leyline gliding to progress while also needing to get the Nuhoch lore soon after in the next zone.

But what’s the point of attempting to berate me for not enjoying an aspect of the game that I felt is annoying? Your point amounts to zilch to me as I’ve already got most masteries unlocked but didn’t enjoy doing it.

All I can figure is that the gameplay is simply so unappealing that players who dislike HoT want to spend as little time there as possible. How else to explain why 4 mastery points is such a barrier to enjoyment or why taking your time to explore a map is unacceptable to a so-called “casual” population that shouldn’t be in a rush to complete objectives in the first place?

Perhaps you conflate your opinion to such lofty levels, you think everyone should just take your strawman argument. Just going to be straight up with you, you don’t matter.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

I had to grind out Leyline gliding to progress

You do not need leyline gliding to progress the story.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

I don’t see why having an opinion is such a controversial thing.

Personally disliked most of the HoT maps. Verdant Brink wasn’t bad. Like Auric Basin but Tangled Depths is annoying. My dislike of HoT was how the majority of the content was hard locked by the masteries which, when i started HoT, had no clue how to get more mastery points outside of the ones marked on the map (which weren’t enough). Even to this day, i am limited in mastery points until i do achievements i don’t want to do but at least the remaining masteries aren’t necessary to progress.

The reason i don’t like Tangled Depths is because the visual map is useless as a guide. At least Verdant Brink was open enough that i could explore to find out how to get somewhere or if you’re able to reach it.

Yes, the majority of content is locked behind masteries…a whole 4 points worth of them (bounce mushrooms, basic gliding, updrafts). By earning about as much experience as it took you to level from 70-80, you can explore all but a handful of objectives and complete every meta!

No, there were points in the playthrough of the story, I had to grind out Leyline gliding to progress while also needing to get the Nuhoch lore soon after in the next zone.

But what’s the point of attempting to berate me for not enjoying an aspect of the game that I felt is annoying? Your point amounts to zilch to me as I’ve already got most masteries unlocked but didn’t enjoy doing it.

All I can figure is that the gameplay is simply so unappealing that players who dislike HoT want to spend as little time there as possible. How else to explain why 4 mastery points is such a barrier to enjoyment or why taking your time to explore a map is unacceptable to a so-called “casual” population that shouldn’t be in a rush to complete objectives in the first place?

Perhaps you conflate your opinion to such lofty levels, you think everyone should just take your strawman argument. Just going to be straight up with you, you don’t matter.

Use facts, not salt. Your vague complaint indicated that the “majority of content” is locked behind masteries. I simply pointed out that you only need 4 points to explore the vast majority of the maps themselves as well as complete the meta events.

If “the majority of content” includes the story and 100% map completion as well, then you need 43 points, which you can easily earn in the process from strongboxes, insights, story, meta, and map completion. But that’s only if you need full map completion. Leyline gliding is not required to complete the story, as I recall.

If you want all of the big QoL upgrades on top of that, you need 56 points – only half of the total required to max all of the original HoT mastery lines.

You’re welcome to hate HoT and consider any amount of time spent there a grind. Just as I’m welcome to think that you’re exaggerating how much of a burden the mastery system is. It turns out my opinions matter as much as yours do. Cool, huh?

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: lordmitz.2047

lordmitz.2047

when HoT launched, i found it frustrating and annoying, and i quit pretty quickly (like within two days i think).

i came back a month ago, watched a couple of guide videos, explored for myself, and i love the HoT maps now. my only complaint is mob density and the amount of group-only events. but once you get into it, it’s really great.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Mutant Poodle.6253

Mutant Poodle.6253

“Where’s Balthazar” mission in story line. Don’t try it, don’t waste your time; here’s why,

1. Once in mission you cannot get out until completion?
2. Tried no less than three times to get through it and . . . wait for it . . . even used you tube video to try and nope not even close.
3. That’s 45 minutes each time of my life I cant get back for complete frustration. Not allowed to start over just in case something got missed.
4. Easy up until last barrier, destroyed all the nodes quickly but no, that wont work either.
5. No wonder people have stopped playing this game with such dis functionality.
6. I look forward to the “oh, we had no issues, I got through OK”. Good for you

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

“Where’s Balthazar” mission in story line. Don’t try it, don’t waste your time; here’s why,

1. Once in mission you cannot get out until completion?
2. Tried no less than three times to get through it and . . . wait for it . . . even used you tube video to try and nope not even close.
3. That’s 45 minutes each time of my life I cant get back for complete frustration. Not allowed to start over just in case something got missed.
4. Easy up until last barrier, destroyed all the nodes quickly but no, that wont work either.
5. No wonder people have stopped playing this game with such dis functionality.
6. I look forward to the “oh, we had no issues, I got through OK”. Good for you

Not sure what your problem with that mission is, but it’s a particularly easy mission. Out of the missions I’ve seen complained about, (there are usually two) that one has hardly even been brought up.

I’m not sure what your issue with it is, but I’ve done it on 10 characters so far without even breaking a sweat.

Are you having trouble with the puzzle?

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ojimaru.8970

Ojimaru.8970

“Where’s Balthazar” mission in story line. Don’t try it, don’t waste your time; here’s why,

1. Once in mission you cannot get out until completion?
2. Tried no less than three times to get through it and . . . wait for it . . . even used you tube video to try and nope not even close.
3. That’s 45 minutes each time of my life I cant get back for complete frustration. Not allowed to start over just in case something got missed.
4. Easy up until last barrier, destroyed all the nodes quickly but no, that wont work either.
5. No wonder people have stopped playing this game with such dis functionality.
6. I look forward to the “oh, we had no issues, I got through OK”. Good for you

I’m sorry you’re finding the encounter difficult. The “switch puzzle” for the last barrier is identical to the very first one you had to rescue the Shining Blade Exemplar from, so hopefully that helps.

Otherwise, try asking your guild, map chat in Brisban Wildlands, or even put an LFG. Alternatively, you could elaborate on what you’re finding specifically difficult and we could offer advice to match.

Good luck!

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

Use facts, not salt.

That goes both ways. There’s nothing wrong with indicating facts but the way you go about it, and then demean someone’s opinion won’t get you the opposite response.

Your vague complaint indicated that the “majority of content” is locked behind masteries. I simply pointed out that you only need 4 points to explore the vast majority of the maps themselves as well as complete the meta events.

And this is your own communication malfunction. Had you “simply” explained something, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But you didn’t and say you did so whatever.

If “the majority of content” includes the story and 100% map completion as well, then you need 43 points, which you can easily earn in the process from strongboxes, insights, story, meta, and map completion. But that’s only if you need full map completion. Leyline gliding is not required to complete the story, as I recall.

I consider “majority” as access to all the maps, the entire HoT story and possibly onto LS missions. The main issue is that the masteries were locked behind mechanics that previous unlocks were not linked to (you never needed Achievements to unlock Traits or Skills…well, you used to but not any more) so the hunt for more points went from playing the game to sifting through achievements. It could have been more from exploring the maps but that’s a whole different issue.

You’re welcome to hate HoT and consider any amount of time spent there a grind. Just as I’m welcome to think that you’re exaggerating how much of a burden the mastery system is. It turns out my opinions matter as much as yours do. Cool, huh?

You know what I really hate? How polarizing people are these days. You either love or hate something. You either agree and support or disagree and dismantle. Like I’m suppose to thank you for allowing me to dislike HoT just because you consider my argument an exaggeration therefore invalid. Which is likely why you have these polarized expressions now-a-days because no one wants to hear that you are in the middle, they want to hear if you love something or hate something so they can try to bash you or flutter on about how they agree.

Well, my experience with masteries wasn’t an exaggeration because I seriously was confused about it for the 1st 3 months, so much so that I took a break and came back still confused until I hunkered down, opened the wiki, hunted down more points despite not wanting to so that I could comfortably progress. It meant I had to do some stuff I didn’t like or found unfun.

And I don’t have a problem with you having an opinion of my opinion. I DO have a problem with you making up what my opinion is and then complaining about that. It’s called a strawman.

Just Finished HoT and...

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Use facts, not salt.

That goes both ways. There’s nothing wrong with indicating facts but the way you go about it, and then demean someone’s opinion won’t get you the opposite response.

Your vague complaint indicated that the “majority of content” is locked behind masteries. I simply pointed out that you only need 4 points to explore the vast majority of the maps themselves as well as complete the meta events.

And this is your own communication malfunction. Had you “simply” explained something, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But you didn’t and say you did so whatever.

If “the majority of content” includes the story and 100% map completion as well, then you need 43 points, which you can easily earn in the process from strongboxes, insights, story, meta, and map completion. But that’s only if you need full map completion. Leyline gliding is not required to complete the story, as I recall.

I consider “majority” as access to all the maps, the entire HoT story and possibly onto LS missions. The main issue is that the masteries were locked behind mechanics that previous unlocks were not linked to (you never needed Achievements to unlock Traits or Skills…well, you used to but not any more) so the hunt for more points went from playing the game to sifting through achievements. It could have been more from exploring the maps but that’s a whole different issue.

You’re welcome to hate HoT and consider any amount of time spent there a grind. Just as I’m welcome to think that you’re exaggerating how much of a burden the mastery system is. It turns out my opinions matter as much as yours do. Cool, huh?

You know what I really hate? How polarizing people are these days. You either love or hate something. You either agree and support or disagree and dismantle. Like I’m suppose to thank you for allowing me to dislike HoT just because you consider my argument an exaggeration therefore invalid. Which is likely why you have these polarized expressions now-a-days because no one wants to hear that you are in the middle, they want to hear if you love something or hate something so they can try to bash you or flutter on about how they agree.

Well, my experience with masteries wasn’t an exaggeration because I seriously was confused about it for the 1st 3 months, so much so that I took a break and came back still confused until I hunkered down, opened the wiki, hunted down more points despite not wanting to so that I could comfortably progress. It meant I had to do some stuff I didn’t like or found unfun.

And I don’t have a problem with you having an opinion of my opinion. I DO have a problem with you making up what my opinion is and then complaining about that. It’s called a strawman.

Considering how many mastery points come from just doing the story and communing with points on the map, I’m having trouble believing you couldn’t make progress at all, at least to get through the story.

There are several communes in VB alone, two of them you only need basic gliding to get to, and you get a point for that, just by doing the first story, which you need to unlock masteries in the first place. I honestly think you made this harder than it was.

I can see being confused for a few days, maybe, but months? I’m not really sure how that’s possible.