Guild Wars 2

Hi everyone, I decided to make this post where we can share lessons learn from GW2 and when a expansion comes out.

For example:

The lesson that I learned was that I should have completed the HoT maps when everyone was in the maps when HoT came out since to complete it now you need to either have a helping guild or wait for planned events in the community if you want to do it quickly.

I usually leave people to their opinion but I can’t ignore someone spreading misinformation, intentionally or not. To stick to your format:

The lesson I learned (during the last three months, came back recently) was that you can still complete HoT maps one year after release if you ask help in map chat or use LFG, have some patience, and try to keep track of the meta timers when they are relevant. I learned I could do this even though I was not in any guild and did not follow any community unless they happened to be on LFG.

By lessons learned I meant that it was waaaay easier before. I did it recently, and yes it is possible (if it were impossible anet would have fixed it) but my lesson is rush map completion when a expansion comes out since you are going to be able to complete it in a quarter or the time it takes now.

Easier is not necessarily better. Before you zerged everything down and it was a joke. That doesn’t make the game better for me. I prefer completeing the HOT zones now,. when you actually have to play to do it.

Some people buy games to get through stuff in the easiest way possible. Some people prefer to play the game more or less as it was intended. I’m one of the latter.

I ran all my characters through a year ago and it wasn’t “easy” for a number of them. I still had to use LFG or map chat to get help.

I didn’t complete any of the maps until 5-6 months after launch, some not until 10-11 months. I didn’t find it hard to do at all, except for getting lost all the time (but that would have happened at launch, too).

It certainly feels different to do it now compared to when there are people in a rush to complete it. Whether it’s better or not depends on the player. If the OP is saying they would have preferred running with the zerg, then that’s true … for them; it doesn’t necessarily mean it is true for everyone else.

Yeah, I was just talking about time efficiency. At the beginning I did not even have to open the LFG, they just appeared. Now you have to wait for someone to get out of their routine to help you.

Soooo I do understand, from a “fun” perspective it would “not” be fun for some ppl, but from the perspective of getting map completion and mastery points faster it still stands.

In conclusion:

“Fun” People:
Have it your way.

Not so “Fun” People:
Forget about Story instances and zerg the kitties out of the maps.

4 years I took mystic coins for granted.. I regret that so much now..

Jhoul.6923:

By lessons learned I meant that it was waaaay easier before. I did it recently, and yes it is possible (if it were impossible anet would have fixed it) but my lesson is rush map completion when a expansion comes out since you are going to be able to complete it in a quarter or the time it takes now.

yep, there is a reason why player finish content as fast as you can. When you play when you feel like it. Anet and other players will change the game under you. I am bit bitter about many of the fractal changes. I like fractals before full body ar resist.

No. You just don’t know how to use LFG. Initially, I would have agreed that logging in and just playing is the way to go. But as a solution that would do that for HoT never materialized, I realized that just using LFG at the proper time is an easy way to get results most of the time.

You should try it. Maybe you’ll like HoT better?

I learnt not to invest any real time or money into the game.

Perspective is purely from 2 things.

1. I had a fully upgraded Guild before HoT that I paid for with Cash. All that money spent for nothing.

2. I have 20+ characters and I still only have 7 toons Elites unlocked. Again, wasted money on the rest of my character slots. Elite should have been Account bound or support should have been open to cases like mine where I’ve spent a lot of money on the game and requested to only complete the elite tracks once. I actually sent in a ticket for this one because of work and family restrictions it’s become a very grueling task to get my characters back to being fully geared for WvW.
In terms to Elites, I was a little salty on the delivery… Buy HoT to get Elite specs, so I did. Then I had to grind them? If I buy a TV I don’t need to do 20 backflips before I can leave the store with it.

sephiroth.4217:

I learnt not to invest any real time or money into the game.

Perspective is purely from 2 things.

1. I had a fully upgraded Guild before HoT that I paid for with Cash. All that money spent for nothing.

2. I have 20+ characters and I still only have 7 toons Elites unlocked. Again, wasted money on the rest of my character slots. Elite should have been Account bound or support should have been open to cases like mine where I’ve spent a lot of money on the game and requested to only complete the elite tracks once. I actually sent in a ticket for this one because of work and family restrictions it’s become a very grueling task to get my characters back to being fully geared for WvW.
In terms to Elites, I was a little salty on the delivery… Buy HoT to get Elite specs, so I did. Then I had to grind them? If I buy a TV I don’t need to do 20 backflips before I can leave the store with it.

I don’t see how it’s different than any other game. Elite specs and Mastery lines is this games version of leveling (Mastery Lines) and gearing up for that higher level (elite specs). Other games, when an expansion arrives you have to level each char individually to the new max level and then because now your old gear is trash you must do whatever the game requires to re-gear each char. Which may mean running dungeons over and over for a chance of a gear drop to upgrade one piece of gear, then repeatedly run more dungeons over and over for another chance for another piece of gear. Why in this game is playing the content to do the equivalent of gearing up such a problem when it’s considered playing the game in other games?

You could get on one of the numerous, player initiated Hero point trains. One train will get you enough hero points to get that char’s elite spec in one play period. They even changed it so you can get elite specs in WvW for one char while playing on another char. How is this so bad?

Elite should have been Account bound or support should have been open to cases like mine where I’ve spent a lot of money on the game

Again, other games you have to play the content if you want to bring your army of alts to the new max levels and to re-gear. Saying you spent money and therefore you should be allowed to bypass playing the game is not a valid argument. We all spent money to play this expansion and many of us have multiple alts.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

sephiroth.4217:

I learnt not to invest any real time or money into the game.

Perspective is purely from 2 things.

1. I had a fully upgraded Guild before HoT that I paid for with Cash. All that money spent for nothing.

2. I have 20+ characters and I still only have 7 toons Elites unlocked. Again, wasted money on the rest of my character slots. Elite should have been Account bound or support should have been open to cases like mine where I’ve spent a lot of money on the game and requested to only complete the elite tracks once. I actually sent in a ticket for this one because of work and family restrictions it’s become a very grueling task to get my characters back to being fully geared for WvW.
In terms to Elites, I was a little salty on the delivery… Buy HoT to get Elite specs, so I did. Then I had to grind them? If I buy a TV I don’t need to do 20 backflips before I can leave the store with it.

I don’t see how it’s different than any other game. Elite specs and Mastery lines is this games version of leveling (Mastery Lines) and gearing up for that higher level (elite specs). Other games, when an expansion arrives you have to level each char individually to the new max level and then because now your old gear is trash you must do whatever the game requires to re-gear each char. Which may mean running dungeons over and over for a chance of a gear drop to upgrade one piece of gear, then repeatedly run more dungeons over and over for another chance for another piece of gear. Why in this game is playing the content to do the equivalent of gearing up such a problem when it’s considered playing the game in other games?

You could get on one of the numerous, player initiated Hero point trains. One train will get you enough hero points to get that char’s elite spec in one play period. They even changed it so you can get elite specs in WvW for one char while playing on another char. How is this so bad?

Elite should have been Account bound or support should have been open to cases like mine where I’ve spent a lot of money on the game

Again, other games you have to play the content if you want to bring your army of alts to the new max levels and to re-gear. Saying you spent money and therefore you should be allowed to bypass playing the game is not a valid argument. We all spent money to play this expansion and many of us have multiple alts.

I’m a bit older than most players, I have a partner and child. To me this marketing is new. I literally went from playing Total Annihilation to this because my partner said I needed a new game. I have the mentality that I play games for fun, grinding is not fun. Reminds me of work, grind work, come home to grind a game? I don’t think so. I don’t regret the $5000 or more I put into this game to save grinding either, I just regret investing so much time and money into so many characters that are now rendered useless to me being a WvW/PvP focused player. I still like all the skins and useless junk like dyes and pets but those characters are now useless. I’m not saying to exempt me from the “rules” just because I’ve spent money on the game, I’m asking to have more reasons to spend more money, to make more characters and keep playing the game to it’s full potential.

I get people enjoy levelling a DH 5 times, immersion and all that. I don’t want to take that away from them which is why I tried to open a personal support ticket for only myself to unlock the elites once. I would still have to earn it like everyone else, I just wouldn’t have to unlock the same class 4x or more for 9 classes.

As for the marketing on Elites, to me during beta weekends it was advertised that purchasing the expansion would come with New Elites and some new content exclusive to those who purchased the expansion, so the advertising was “give us your money and we will give you some skills to explore our new maps you purchased”. I don’t remember it ever stating during beta weekends that our skills would be locked behind a grind wall, what I do remember is playing beta weekend with all of our skills, that’s what they advertised we would have if we purchased the expansion and that’s what they didn’t deliver on upon purchasing the expansion, instead they put it behind a hidden secondary investment.

Again, I’m a bit older so my perspective is somewhat cavelike and simple and this thread is asking what I learned, and what I originally posted is what I learnt. Not to invest any real time or money into the game, so no real loss to Anet. That just means I buy 800 gems a fortnight instead of the 4-8k worth of gems I used too.

Can’t deny Anet have made some choices that have turned some of it’s playerbase away or hindered future sales, keyword being “some” so you may not be effected as much as others or have a different opinion to others, which is natural.

Wait.

Do not prepurchase or buy on release.

Make sure that the product delivered matches the advertisements, delivers promised components, and generally seems on target for your interests. Read reviews, watch videos, and pay attention to feedback from others that you know to have similar interests in game to yourself.

I’d say wait at least a month, 3 months is probably better, before buying an expansion. Let others be the guinea pigs testing the game’s, “bold new direction.”

Rod.6581:

Don’t buy expansion until of 50% off.

You are willing to wait 1 year only to save 20€? That’s… well… ok.

sephiroth.4217:

I just regret investing so much time and money into so many characters that are now rendered useless to me being a WvW/PvP focused player.

You could just do wvw with one of your 7 chars wich are ready and use the tokens from the wvw-rank-ups to unlock the elite specs on the rest of you chars.

martin.1653:

Rod.6581:

Don’t buy expansion until of 50% off.

You are willing to wait 1 year only to save 20€? That’s… well… ok.

To save 20 euro, to see what problems are associated with the expac, and to see which ones will be fixed and which ones won’t.

Otherwise they may end in the situation of someone that paid for the game to change direction away from the one they wanted. Like it happened to many people with HoT.

Astralporing.1957:

martin.1653:

Rod.6581:

Don’t buy expansion until of 50% off.

You are willing to wait 1 year only to save 20€? That’s… well… ok.

To save 20 euro, to see what problems are associated with the expac, and to see which ones will be fixed and which ones won’t.

Otherwise they may end in the situation of someone that paid for the game to change direction away from the one they wanted. Like it happened to many people with HoT.

Well, if not enough people buy the expansion, it doesn’t help., because it changes nothing. Most people will just walk away from the game, find another game and never say anything. The problem here is that if the game does worse, its’ not necessarily going to change the direction in the way you want.

So if casuals say don’t buy the expansion and raiders do, and you end up with more hard core players, the game will continue further in the direction you don’t like because the content being focused on is the hardest.

Not buying the expansion, in my opinion, isn’t a way to make the game swing back to the content you want. Buying the expansion and not playing the hard stuff is.

Vayne I havent touched raids and it havent helped at all.
So not sure if keep handing money over for what we dont want is the solution.

Galespark.7835:

Ok, that is likely true, but your opening post states you need guild and community to complete it at all, not to complete it quickly, that’s what irked me. I guess your advice holds for those who see map completion as something to get out of the way quickly, but I really enjoyed doing it over time.

From the OP:

Jhoul.6923:

now you need to either have a helping guild or wait for planned events in the community if you want to do it quickly.

Jhoul.6923:

Hi everyone, I decided to make this post where we can share lessons learn from GW2 and when a expansion comes out.

For example:

The lesson that I learned was that I should have completed the HoT maps when everyone was in the maps when HoT came out since to complete it now you need to either have a helping guild or wait for planned events in the community if you want to do it quickly.

I definitely agree.

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

martin.1653:

Rod.6581:

Don’t buy expansion until of 50% off.

You are willing to wait 1 year only to save 20€? That’s… well… ok.

To save 20 euro, to see what problems are associated with the expac, and to see which ones will be fixed and which ones won’t.

Otherwise they may end in the situation of someone that paid for the game to change direction away from the one they wanted. Like it happened to many people with HoT.

Well, if not enough people buy the expansion, it doesn’t help., because it changes nothing. Most people will just walk away from the game, find another game and never say anything. The problem here is that if the game does worse, its’ not necessarily going to change the direction in the way you want.

So if casuals say don’t buy the expansion and raiders do, and you end up with more hard core players, the game will continue further in the direction you don’t like because the content being focused on is the hardest.

Not buying the expansion, in my opinion, isn’t a way to make the game swing back to the content you want. Buying the expansion and not playing the hard stuff is.

Ok. This is shameless. That logic doesn’t make sense. Once they have your money, they can make any content they want.

IF THE EXPANSION DOESN’T PROVIDE THE CONTENT YOU WANT, DON’T BUY IT!!!

It’s that simple. And let them know that is the reason you did not buy it. In this game, you vote with your wallet. Once you buy the game, you’ve up your part of the process. This is why pre-purchasing is so dangerous for consumers.

Linken.6345:

Vayne I havent touched raids and it havent helped at all.
So not sure if keep handing money over for what we dont want is the solution.

People are pretty short sighted, I think. You haven’t touched raids and it hasn’t helped? How do you know it hasn’t helped. Raids were only introduced a year ago. If Anet even changed direction due to people not touching raids, you wouldn’t even see it for another six months to a year.

But in some ways, it has helped. Anet did make major changes to the new zones, making them easier, more casual friendly and less grindy. I noticed the different last April. Now we’re getting a new map with every Living Story and they’re nothing like the HoT maps with their timed giant metas. There are a lot of people that like Bloodstone Fen or Ember Bay and there are a lot of people who like the story.

We’ve received one new Fractal and another new Fractal incoming. We’ve received 2 new PvP maps as well. And most of that stuff still wouldn’t have factored into you not doing raids. You say it hasn’t helped. Where is your evidence?

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

martin.1653:

Rod.6581:

Don’t buy expansion until of 50% off.

You are willing to wait 1 year only to save 20€? That’s… well… ok.

To save 20 euro, to see what problems are associated with the expac, and to see which ones will be fixed and which ones won’t.

Otherwise they may end in the situation of someone that paid for the game to change direction away from the one they wanted. Like it happened to many people with HoT.

Well, if not enough people buy the expansion, it doesn’t help., because it changes nothing. Most people will just walk away from the game, find another game and never say anything. The problem here is that if the game does worse, its’ not necessarily going to change the direction in the way you want.

So if casuals say don’t buy the expansion and raiders do, and you end up with more hard core players, the game will continue further in the direction you don’t like because the content being focused on is the hardest.

Not buying the expansion, in my opinion, isn’t a way to make the game swing back to the content you want. Buying the expansion and not playing the hard stuff is.

Ok. This is shameless. That logic doesn’t make sense. Once they have your money, they can make any content they want.

IF THE EXPANSION DOESN’T PROVIDE THE CONTENT YOU WANT, DON’T BUY IT!!!

It’s that simple. And let them know that is the reason you did not buy it. In this game, you vote with your wallet. Once you buy the game, you’ve up your part of the process. This is why pre-purchasing is so dangerous for consumers.

It’s not shameless and using that language is inflamatory. It’s like saying I’m not going to vote, but then complaining about who gets into office. It’s the same thing.

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing. Anet can’t possibly know why those people didn’t buy the expansion.

People who buy the expansion and only play certain content at trackable entities. Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid. If you’re not counted in that, if you didn’t buy the expansion because you don’t like the addition of raids, a bigger percentage of people will be raidiing. You can call it shameless but I call it logic.

How exactly does not buying the game tell anything anything? DId you not buy it because it was two expensive? Did you not buy it because of bad reviews? Did you not buy it because it didn’t include enough new armor skins? Did you not buy it because you didn’t like the difficulty of the HoT zones? Did you not buy it because you don’t like vertical maps. They’re all different reasons. People who bought it can be tracked.

It’s like saying Disneyworld knows why people don’t come to their park if they don’t come to their park. It’s factually false. They can guess but they don’t know. But if you go to their park and you don’t ride certain rides and enough other people don’t ride those rides they’ll replace them.

You absolutely won’t be counted if you’re not actually there.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

martin.1653:

Rod.6581:

Don’t buy expansion until of 50% off.

You are willing to wait 1 year only to save 20€? That’s… well… ok.

To save 20 euro, to see what problems are associated with the expac, and to see which ones will be fixed and which ones won’t.

Otherwise they may end in the situation of someone that paid for the game to change direction away from the one they wanted. Like it happened to many people with HoT.

Well, if not enough people buy the expansion, it doesn’t help., because it changes nothing. Most people will just walk away from the game, find another game and never say anything. The problem here is that if the game does worse, its’ not necessarily going to change the direction in the way you want.

So if casuals say don’t buy the expansion and raiders do, and you end up with more hard core players, the game will continue further in the direction you don’t like because the content being focused on is the hardest.

Not buying the expansion, in my opinion, isn’t a way to make the game swing back to the content you want. Buying the expansion and not playing the hard stuff is.

Ok. This is shameless. That logic doesn’t make sense. Once they have your money, they can make any content they want.

IF THE EXPANSION DOESN’T PROVIDE THE CONTENT YOU WANT, DON’T BUY IT!!!

It’s that simple. And let them know that is the reason you did not buy it. In this game, you vote with your wallet. Once you buy the game, you’ve up your part of the process. This is why pre-purchasing is so dangerous for consumers.

Vayne is discussing purchasing then playing not prepurchasing, so your argument isn’t about what’s he’s saying but a separate subject. At this point, you can only talk about purchasing this year old expansion so how about sticking to that.

As to purchasing the expansion. If you’re playing the game, unless the expansion was actually bad, which this expansion wasn’t, then why not buy? My monthly TV satellite bill is $60. A 50$ charge for something you’ll put hundreds or thousands of hours into isn’t a bad deal even if it’s not in complete accordance to your wishes. In addition, by not buying and still playing you’re standing on the sidelines playing old content while everyone else is exploring the new maps, learning how to glide, seeing the events and new story and progressing their character.

It’s actually a reasonable option to buy, then have the knowledge to tell the devs what was liked, what was disliked, what worked and what didn’t. Far more useful information than standing on the sidelines being a critic of gameplay that hasn’t been experienced.

sephiroth.4217:

I’m a bit older than most players, I have a partner and child. To me this marketing is new. I literally went from playing Total Annihilation to this because my partner said I needed a new game. I have the mentality that I play games for fun, grinding is not fun. Reminds me of work, grind work, come home to grind a game? I don’t think so.

What does age have to do with it? I’m in my late 40s myself, with husband and two kids (and a fulltime job), and I can play this game very well without grinding and without spending a lot of cash.

If you’re only into WvW and PvP especially, elite specs shouldn’t be a problem for you. For one, you don’t even have to unlock them for pvp, they’re right there for you to use. My main pvp characters are low-levels, 30s and 40s, who haven’t even unlocked a single regular traitline fully, but in pvp they have all traits, including the elite specs, available to them.

And wvw does give you proofs of heroics that you can use to unlock elite specs. Even my 13-year-old daughter, who rarely gets to play more than a couple of hours a week, has unlocked three full elite specs on her account already, purely from the proofs of heroics she’s gained in wvw (unlike her casual old mom she hates pve ).

Myself, I hate to grind and only play whichever character and map interests me that day (as you say, too much stress and grind in real life to continue with it in games). Granted, one of my favourite things to do in this game is just to pick a character and a waypoint and go from there, letting the game direct me with events, gathering nodes, and map explorations. Still, most of my 27 (or is it 28?) characters have their elite spec fully unlocked already. It’s really not as hard as you make it out to be.

Back to the opening post:

My lesson learned in this game is: play the content you enjoy, and the rewards will come. I hated grinding the same map/dungeon/whatever in previous mmos just to get a chance at a specific piece of equipment or cosmetic. This game so far has been great at just letting me play what I enjoy and accumulating wealth in my material storage to get whatever I want to have eventually. I’ve even gotten my first couple of legendary items recently (Ad Infinitum and Kudzu), something I never really expected to happen, but one day I realized that everything was in place to get the shinies .

Another lesson is that it is easier and cheaper to buy cultural armor in WvW than in PvE.

Vayne.8563

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing. Anet can’t possibly know why those people didn’t buy the expansion.

People who buy the expansion and only play certain content at trackable entities. Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid.

In a post regarding the Mystic Coins, one of the posters said something like: What if ANet knows? They have the decision power and if they decide to do (or not to do) something we have only to accept. Nothing to do but to accept.

To go back: " …Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid" – and so what? If they decide to do nothing about things we don’t like, and taking into account they took the money already, they can choose do nothing. And we have to accept this.

On the other hand: " If a million people don’t buy the expansion……. ". This does not mean is telling ANet nothing. That means the product ANet wants to sell is not meeting the expectations of the buyers. This means nothing for ANet? In this case, if a company cannot learn anything from the tons of complains until now, the management of that company has a lot of things to fix. Well, maybe they learned something, but regarding HoT they already took the buyers money and they can choose to do nothing.

DaShi.1368

IF THE EXPANSION DOESN’T PROVIDE THE CONTENT YOU WANT, DON’T BUY IT!

This is an excellent lesson. From my part, I’m on the same boat: If the next XPac will have even a single aspect I cannot touch, I will not waste my money for it.

ANet is acting as the politicians: Before elections (sales start) they promises everything for everybody. After elections (selling the product) they vanish almost completely from the forums / media / game community. The rare moments they show they are alive are used to tell us that the players don’t act as ANet wants, the community is toxic or that everything is perfect with the game but we lack the wisdom to appreciate this.

They forget that new elections will come. And the toxic / unwise / rebel community will have a word to say. By buying an incomplete product again we will miss the opportunity to help ANet. To help them to become responsible peoples. Because, judging HoT, they acted like a team trained in avoiding the responsibility.

I actually learned three important lessons in GW2.

1. Konwledge is power. Sharing power is difficult. If you do not have a fancy name or a popular youtube channel, you get ignored. If people see you as an idiot, you can move freely.

2. There is no way to not-offend people in this game. It is not worth to try. Live your life as you feel comfortable and accept some people dissagree and instantly block you on sight.

3. A look into the future does not help you change it. You are falling down and just see where and when you land. You cannot change anything. You can only plan the actions after your landing.

What I learned :

- to be patient…

Lessons learned:
- If you want A, but to get A you need B. You also have to want B, if you want A.
- Go for Achievements early.
- Grind one thing at a time.

Vayne.8563:

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing.

Not really true.

If a million paying/playing customers do not buy an expansion, but continue to play the game, then it tells Anet a great deal. Most importantly it tells them that those people do not want what is in the expansion, but do want what is in the core game. This, at least, implies that what they don’t want is the manner in which the expansion deviates from the design philosophy of the core.

Vayne.8563:

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing. Anet can’t possibly know why those people didn’t buy the expansion.

1. Unless people tell them on this board or Reddit, which happened a lot with HoT.

People who buy the expansion and only play certain content at trackable entities. Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid. If you’re not counted in that, if you didn’t buy the expansion because you don’t like the addition of raids, a bigger percentage of people will be raiding. You can call it shameless but I call it logic.

2. Failure to purchase is also a demographic. In fact it can be subdivided into didn’t buy/doesn’t play core and didn’t buy/still plays core. I doubt ANet would ignore all of the info available to them.

How exactly does not buying the game tell anything anything? DId you not buy it because it was two expensive? Did you not buy it because of bad reviews? Did you not buy it because it didn’t include enough new armor skins? Did you not buy it because you didn’t like the difficulty of the HoT zones? Did you not buy it because you don’t like vertical maps. They’re all different reasons. People who bought it can be tracked.

3. Businesses speculate about why consumers don’t buy their products all the time. They gather evidence about it any way they can. Given forum feedback, all of the reasons you cited above appeared in sufficient frequency to be areas of concern.

It’s like saying Disneyworld knows why people don’t come to their park if they don’t come to their park. It’s factually false. They can guess but they don’t know. But if you go to their park and you don’t ride certain rides and enough other people don’t ride those rides they’ll replace them.

4. It’s not the same at all. People who bought core already went to Disneyland. The fact that they’re choosing not to ride the 2-3 new rides recently put in should be plenty of info for a discerning business.

You absolutely won’t be counted if you’re not actually there.

False. I am certain ANet knows how many active accounts that own core didn’t buy HoT, and that they can look at the body of complaints, discern frequencies and extrapolate probabilities.

Consumers who purchase products they find lacking are in fact doing a disservice to the consumer base. One stat companies will certainly track is sales. A sale indicates that the consumer valued at least some aspect of the product enough to spend the money. If the consumer is spending the money regardless, that’s disinformation. That may serve the company. After all, they collected. It does not serve the consumer because it sends the message, “Keep doing this.”

The only scenario I can envision where a company might choose to disregard existing customers who did not purchase a recent product is one in which the company no longer cares whether those older customers might become ongoing customers again. If that’s the picture you’re painting, then OK, but I doubt that’s where ANet is — or ought to be.

1- Expansions come out with their fair share of bugs and crashes, some of which will never get fixed and will slow down your frame rate forever after.

2- Trust your instinct when you feel it may not have as much content as advertised
(Don’t pay for promises, but for what is there)

3- Anet can make arenas for GvG, but doesn’t inquired GvG guilds about the arena size required for actual GvG gameplay. Or maybe they just made it super small to make sure people wouldn’t GvG in it. Missed opportunity.

4- Stronghold isn’t GvG, but they said it would be when they announced it… confusing

5- Anet still got really good artists

6- WvW: If your new map is too large for the amount of players your servers can handle you got a problem.

7- Even if something is beautiful (new WvW map) if it’s not implemented properly people wont like it.

Cristalyan.5728:

Vayne.8563

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing. Anet can’t possibly know why those people didn’t buy the expansion.

People who buy the expansion and only play certain content at trackable entities. Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid.

In a post regarding the Mystic Coins, one of the posters said something like: What if ANet knows? They have the decision power and if they decide to do (or not to do) something we have only to accept. Nothing to do but to accept.

To go back: " …Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid" – and so what? If they decide to do nothing about things we don’t like, and taking into account they took the money already, they can choose do nothing. And we have to accept this.

On the other hand: " If a million people don’t buy the expansion……. ". This does not mean is telling ANet nothing. That means the product ANet wants to sell is not meeting the expectations of the buyers. This means nothing for ANet? In this case, if a company cannot learn anything from the tons of complains until now, the management of that company has a lot of things to fix. Well, maybe they learned something, but regarding HoT they already took the buyers money and they can choose to do nothing.

DaShi.1368

IF THE EXPANSION DOESN’T PROVIDE THE CONTENT YOU WANT, DON’T BUY IT!

This is an excellent lesson. From my part, I’m on the same boat: If the next XPac will have even a single aspect I cannot touch, I will not waste my money for it.

ANet is acting as the politicians: Before elections (sales start) they promises everything for everybody. After elections (selling the product) they vanish almost completely from the forums / media / game community. The rare moments they show they are alive are used to tell us that the players don’t act as ANet wants, the community is toxic or that everything is perfect with the game but we lack the wisdom to appreciate this.

They forget that new elections will come. And the toxic / unwise / rebel community will have a word to say. By buying an incomplete product again we will miss the opportunity to help ANet. To help them to become responsible peoples. Because, judging HoT, they acted like a team trained in avoiding the responsibility.

And you’re miss out because there’ll likely be single aspect in any MMO you won’t be able to touch. What you’re saying is if there’s one ride in Disneyworld I won’t go on I won’t go to Disney World. I’m sure most people wouldn’t think that makes sense.

I don’t buy stuff based on the value of what I won’t do with it, but what I will do with it. That’s just the simplest logic.

I don’t usually go to the small mammal house when I go to a zoo, but it doesn’t stop me going to zoos.

Also taking my reply out of context doesn’t really help the discussion at all.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing. Anet can’t possibly know why those people didn’t buy the expansion.

1. Unless people tell them on this board or Reddit, which happened a lot with HoT.

People who buy the expansion and only play certain content at trackable entities. Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid. If you’re not counted in that, if you didn’t buy the expansion because you don’t like the addition of raids, a bigger percentage of people will be raiding. You can call it shameless but I call it logic.

2. Failure to purchase is also a demographic. In fact it can be subdivided into didn’t buy/doesn’t play core and didn’t buy/still plays core. I doubt ANet would ignore all of the info available to them.

How exactly does not buying the game tell anything anything? DId you not buy it because it was two expensive? Did you not buy it because of bad reviews? Did you not buy it because it didn’t include enough new armor skins? Did you not buy it because you didn’t like the difficulty of the HoT zones? Did you not buy it because you don’t like vertical maps. They’re all different reasons. People who bought it can be tracked.

3. Businesses speculate about why consumers don’t buy their products all the time. They gather evidence about it any way they can. Given forum feedback, all of the reasons you cited above appeared in sufficient frequency to be areas of concern.

It’s like saying Disneyworld knows why people don’t come to their park if they don’t come to their park. It’s factually false. They can guess but they don’t know. But if you go to their park and you don’t ride certain rides and enough other people don’t ride those rides they’ll replace them.

4. It’s not the same at all. People who bought core already went to Disneyland. The fact that they’re choosing not to ride the 2-3 new rides recently put in should be plenty of info for a discerning business.

You absolutely won’t be counted if you’re not actually there.

False. I am certain ANet knows how many active accounts that own core didn’t buy HoT, and that they can look at the body of complaints, discern frequencies and extrapolate probabilities.

Consumers who purchase products they find lacking are in fact doing a disservice to the consumer base. One stat companies will certainly track is sales. A sale indicates that the consumer valued at least some aspect of the product enough to spend the money. If the consumer is spending the money regardless, that’s disinformation. That may serve the company. After all, they collected. It does not serve the consumer because it sends the message, “Keep doing this.”

The only scenario I can envision where a company might choose to disregard existing customers who did not purchase a recent product is one in which the company no longer cares whether those older customers might become ongoing customers again. If that’s the picture you’re painting, then OK, but I doubt that’s where ANet is — or ought to be.

Actually this statment is false. Saying my statement is false dosen’t make is so.

Anet may know of five reasons why people don’t buy the upgrade (and it’s probably more but lets pretend it’s only 5).

If 1 million people don’t buy the upgrade, Anet really has no idea of what percentage didn’t buy it for which reason. They don’t know. They can guess, but it’s only guessing, It’s not a metric.

If 1 million people didn’t like the direction of the game because it got harder, it’s very different than if one million people didn’t buy it due to grind or perceived grind, which is very different if 1 million people didn’t buy it due to power inflation in builds due to elite specialzations.

Anet just has no idea. They know all the complaints. It’s absolutely not a metric they can use.

So let’s pretend that 1 million people feel the expansion is probably too hard for them. Too much work. Even that’s two different things but let’s roll with it. Those people never buy the expansion. The people that do tend to like the idea of harder content and they do that harder content.

This gives Anet the idea that players playing their game like harder content, rather than the idea that these people didn’t buy the game because of it. Because they don’t know.

They can’t know what percentage of people didn’t buy the game because they started playing something else for completely unrelated reasons. Or which people didn’t buy the game just due to bad publicity without any idea of whether it would be good for them.

So they can’t base decisions on who didn’t buy the game. If they made the next expansion easier based on the theory that the new stuff is not working, they can only get that knowledge from people actually playing.

Vayne.8563:

Actually this statment is false. Saying my statement is false dosen’t make is so.

Anet may know of five reasons why people don’t buy the upgrade (and it’s probably more but lets pretend it’s only 5).

If 1 million people don’t buy the upgrade, Anet really has no idea of what percentage didn’t buy it for which reason. They don’t know. They can guess, but it’s only guessing, It’s not a metric.

If 1 million people didn’t like the direction of the game because it got harder, it’s very different than if one million people didn’t buy it due to grind or perceived grind, which is very different if 1 million people didn’t buy it due to power inflation in builds due to elite specialzations.

Anet just has no idea. They know all the complaints. It’s absolutely not a metric they can use.

So let’s pretend that 1 million people feel the expansion is probably too hard for them. Too much work. Even that’s two different things but let’s roll with it. Those people never buy the expansion. The people that do tend to like the idea of harder content and they do that harder content.

This gives Anet the idea that players playing their game like harder content, rather than the idea that these people didn’t buy the game because of it. Because they don’t know.

They can’t know what percentage of people didn’t buy the game because they started playing something else for completely unrelated reasons. Or which people didn’t buy the game just due to bad publicity without any idea of whether it would be good for them.

So they can’t base decisions on who didn’t buy the game. If they made the next expansion easier based on the theory that the new stuff is not working, they can only get that knowledge from people actually playing.

1. Collect data on percentage of active accounts that did not buy HoT.
2. Have a low level staffer or intern tally the various forum reasons given to not buy HoT.
3. Apply statistical methods similar to those used by opinion polls.

1. Tally the complaints about HoT by adopters.
2. Look at #’s of players who bought HoT but spent most or all of their time playing core.
3. Apply statistical methods.

With both, you’ll have a decent idea within margin of error on what people did not like.

Both metrics are within reach. Both are extrapolations (educated guesses). The reasons given may be different (some may be the same), but both methods can provide valuable insights into GW2 consumer trends.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing.

Not really true.

If a million paying/playing customers do not buy an expansion, but continue to play the game, then it tells Anet a great deal. Most importantly it tells them that those people do not want what is in the expansion, but do want what is in the core game. This, at least, implies that what they don’t want is the manner in which the expansion deviates from the design philosophy of the core.

No a million people not buying the expansion tells Arenanet that their markating strategy is poor.

A million people buying the expansion but then quitting the new zones after a couple days tells them that they need to change the gameplay.

Crinn.7864:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing.

Not really true.

If a million paying/playing customers do not buy an expansion, but continue to play the game, then it tells Anet a great deal. Most importantly it tells them that those people do not want what is in the expansion, but do want what is in the core game. This, at least, implies that what they don’t want is the manner in which the expansion deviates from the design philosophy of the core.

No a million people not buying the expansion tells Arenanet that their markating strategy is poor.

A million people buying the expansion but then quitting the new zones after a couple days tells them that they need to change the gameplay.

Yep this is my take on it. For one thing, no one buying the expansion knows the expansion because they haven’t played it. So they see people say it’s too hard and believe it’s too hard, or they see people say it’s too grindy and believe it’s too grindy, but then we see posts from people who delayed buying the expansion, and found it neither too hard and too grindy.

People who don’t play something can’t possibly comment on what’s wrong with it, or even really be counted in the conversation, any more than if I were to start talking crap about playing a thief without actually having played a thief, my opinion would mean anything.

Crinn.7864:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing.

Not really true.

If a million paying/playing customers do not buy an expansion, but continue to play the game, then it tells Anet a great deal. Most importantly it tells them that those people do not want what is in the expansion, but do want what is in the core game. This, at least, implies that what they don’t want is the manner in which the expansion deviates from the design philosophy of the core.

No a million people not buying the expansion tells Arenanet that their markating strategy is poor.

Not really.

Current, active, players are like fish in a barrel generally. If they are happy playing the game currently then they are likely to buy the expansion. Much of marketing of expansions is designed to bring old, not currently playing, customers back, and perhaps even draw in a few new customers.

Vayne.8563:

People who don’t play something can’t possibly comment on what’s wrong with it

This is incorrect. One does not need to play a type of content, advertised as that type, clearly labeled as that type, streamed by other players as that type, posted on you tube in countless videos demonstrating that it is that type, for someone who does not like that type of content to be able to accurately, honestly, state that the content is off-putting to him.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

People who don’t play something can’t possibly comment on what’s wrong with it

This is incorrect. One does not need to play a type of content, advertised as that type, clearly labeled as that type, streamed by other players as that type, posted on you tube in countless videos demonstrating that it is that type, for someone who does not like that type of content to be able to accurately, honestly, state that the content is off-putting to him.

Very true. In fact I will not be pre-purchasing the next expansion. I will wait to see if it is full of platforming and progression gating like HoT. If it is, I won’t purchase it. Once I am done with the parts of GW2 I have access to, or am significantly inconvenienced by not owning the expansion, I will quit GW2.

Its really such a shame. When GW2 first came out I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

People who don’t play something can’t possibly comment on what’s wrong with it

This is incorrect. One does not need to play a type of content, advertised as that type, clearly labeled as that type, streamed by other players as that type, posted on you tube in countless videos demonstrating that it is that type, for someone who does not like that type of content to be able to accurately, honestly, state that the content is off-putting to him.

Very true. In fact I will not be pre-purchasing the next expansion. I will wait to see if it is full of platforming and progression gating like HoT. If it is, I won’t purchase it. Once I am done with the parts of GW2 I have access to, or am significantly inconvenienced by not owning the expansion, I will quit GW2.

Its really such a shame. When GW2 first came out I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.

Not really point point at all, so agree with it is pretty much irrelevant.

Anet knows people complained about certain things, but they have no way to gauge what percentage of people did or didn’t buy the expansion based on those things. They can guess and they can make educated guesses, but it’s still guessing.

They know precisely how many people don’t raid, or how many people tried to raid and didn’t, who didn’t buy the expansion.

Now, a lot of people who didn’t buy the expansion would have quit the game, probably most of them, if they indeed are active players. Because there’s little new content for them.

PvPers and WvWers are mostly going to want the option for the new builds. PvE’ers are going to want new maps and maybe raids, but certainly new metas and events, of which there’s precious little in game by comparison.

So if you don’t buy the expansion and you stop playing, nothing will change specifically for you. Because Anet doesn’t know what to change.

They’re not going to willy nilly go and change everything that everyone complained about.

The big April patch isn’t an example of Anet changing stuff for people who didn’t buy the expansion. They were far more likely looking at numbers of people who bought the expansion but don’t set foot in those maps.

The April patched helped those maps, but it’ll never compensate for the sales of those who didn’t buy the game at launch. Those types of things almost never happen and Anet knows it.

They know most people who buy a game buy it within the first 90 days of launch for the life of the game. Everything else is just playing catch up.

So if you didn’t buy the game, making changes later isn’t necessarily going to help Anet, just as people who walked away often won’t look back. It would be a bad business decision for Anet to make changes to a multi-million dollar game, simply because some people didn’t buy it. To some degree you have to support players who are playing rather than make drastic changes and try to bring back players that haven’t. You can make some changes, but a bird in the hand is always going to be worth two in the bush. That expression exists for a reason.

I’m sure Anet did learn some lessons from the reaction to HoT which is showing up in the new zones to some degree, but I’m relatively sure that reaction is based on people currently playing far more than it is based on people who never bought the expansion in the first place.

In fact, I’m pretty sure more people buy second or third accounts when the game is on sale, than new people buying it. The same was likely true with Guild Wars 1.

Vayne.8563:

It’s not shameless and using that language is inflamatory. It’s like saying I’m not going to vote, but then complaining about who gets into office. It’s the same thing.

This is not an accurate analogy. It’s more like saying, I’m going to vote for a candidate and then ask them to do what I want.

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing. Anet can’t possibly know why those people didn’t buy the expansion.

This is not true. Anet will know that they delivered a product that a million people didn’t want. They’ll get an earfull on the forums for why people didn’t buy it.

People who buy the expansion and only play certain content at trackable entities. Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid. If you’re not counted in that, if you didn’t buy the expansion because you don’t like the addition of raids, a bigger percentage of people will be raidiing. You can call it shameless but I call it logic.

That’s only accurate for development that occurs between expansions. If Anet advertises an expansion that I won’t want to play, I’m not going to buy it. And I shouldn’t. You’re saying to people to buy it anyway and hope they change their mind after they have your money. That’s not logic, that’s a scam.

How exactly does not buying the game tell anything anything? DId you not buy it because it was two expensive? Did you not buy it because of bad reviews? Did you not buy it because it didn’t include enough new armor skins? Did you not buy it because you didn’t like the difficulty of the HoT zones? Did you not buy it because you don’t like vertical maps. They’re all different reasons. People who bought it can be tracked.

I answered this already. In this very post. You are repeating yourself.

It’s like saying Disneyworld knows why people don’t come to their park if they don’t come to their park. It’s factually false. They can guess but they don’t know. But if you go to their park and you don’t ride certain rides and enough other people don’t ride those rides they’ll replace them.

WTF? This is a blatant lie. Disney does a ton of testing, marketing, and focus groups before they even begin designing a ride. No, at this point, you are blatantly trying to deceive people!

Glad to see a lot of other people here aren’t being fooled either.

If you guys could stop arguing and call a truce then this thread could get back on topic. Just agree to disagree.

The lesson I learned from HoT was to carefully read the weasel words of the pre-purchase offer. If I had paid more attention then I would not have been so surprised when I didn’t get an extra character slot. Once bitten….

Vayne.8563:

First all all. accusing someone of blatantly lying is offensive. You can disagree with people without accusing them of lying. I believe you’re incorrect, but that doesn’t mean I believe you’re lying.

I don’t believe you’re incorrect. I know you are. But you’re right. I can’t assume that you know you are.

Disney does indeed do more research before rides, because each attraction, in and of itself, is a major, usually unchangeable investment. But the analogy still stands. I’m sure Disney has come out with rides that are less popular than they predicted. A focus group hears about a ride but doesn’t experience it. There’s no way anyone can get an accurate picture from a focus group.

How can your analogy stand when it lost its only leg? You outright capitulated in the first sentence. What you describe after that is normal business practice? If there was no risk in business, then everyone would do it. What you are asking for is for the players to take all the risk so that Anet doesn’t have to. Do you work for Anet?

In fact, my son works for a firm that does market research and he’s always going on about how inaccurate market research is. Everyone does it, but that doesn’t always mean it leads to results people expect. Which is why I say an in game metric is worth a hundred focus groups or comment on forums from people who don’t buy the game. It’s the simplest logic there is.

Appeal to authority. You should be ashamed, because this behavior is deceitful. This is fact.

You don’t buy the expansion because of what you’ve heard, without playing it. and Anet has no idea which of the myriad reasons you haven’t bought the expansion is the reason that most people haven’t bought it.

No one in the history of the world has done what you are saying. People don’t buy things they can’t take back just to try it out. This is getting ridiculous. It’s already been demonstrated that Anet can acquire this information without people buying. That’s how business works! Again, you are asking players to foolishly take all the risk and Anet to take none. Do you work for Anet?

So the next expansion, if Anet goes by comments on the forum, will be easier, cheaper, less grindy, and then a bunch of people will start complaining it’s too easy, there’s nothing to do because I’ve done everything, and it’ll just start all over again. No one runs a business this way. It doesn’t make sense to run a business this way.

Exactly, Anet has already collected information on what they want for the next expansion. If no one buys it, then they didn’t do their jobs correctly. Also, get an editor, half of what you wrote is unreadable.

[quote=6409754;Vayne.8563:][quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]

DoctorDing.5890:

If you guys could stop arguing and call a truce then this thread could get back on topic. Just agree to disagree.

The lesson I learned from HoT was to carefully read the weasel words of the pre-purchase offer. If I had paid more attention then I would not have been so surprised when I didn’t get an extra character slot. Once bitten….

Which is all I’m saying. Buy the game if you want it. If you don’t like what’s being offered, don’t buy it.

Rasimir.6239:

My lesson learned in this game is: play the content you enjoy, and the rewards will come.

That is also my philosophy and why I was so sad when they locked the legendary armor behind the raid.

Before, the end game reward was not tied to any game mode so you could freely do what you enjoy and ignore what you do not while still working toward whatever end game reward you like. Things have changed with HoT.

DaShi.1368:

DoctorDing.5890:

If you guys could stop arguing and call a truce then this thread could get back on topic. Just agree to disagree.

The lesson I learned from HoT was to carefully read the weasel words of the pre-purchase offer. If I had paid more attention then I would not have been so surprised when I didn’t get an extra character slot. Once bitten….

Which is all I’m saying. Buy the game if you want it. If you don’t like what’s being offered, don’t buy it.

If only it were that simple. But it’s not. There’s an equation. For example, a lot of people might like the Living Story, which is part of what comes with the expansion. They can’t do the living story without owning the expansion, whether they liked the expansion content or not.

It’s a matter of moving forward with the game, or being locked into the core game forever, with very little new content. It’s not just about liking or not liking.

The situation would be vastly different if there were so many good MMOs out there, but from the point of view of many of us there aren’t. And yeah we get this game has it’s flaws, but compared to the alternatives, this is it…for many of us.

So not buying the expansion, like or or not, puts you in a kind of limbo. You’re just going to sit with what you’ve been doing all along. Very little new, and very little you can participate in.

If you’re okay with other MMOs out there, it’s less of a problem but not everyone is…in fact, I’d wager many people aren’t.

So if you don’t support this game, even if you don’t like the direction it’s going in currently, and there aren’t other MMOs to replace this one, then you’re sort of shooting yourself in the foot.

You still try to change the game to the game you want, which some people did. It’s why the April update happened.

But I’m relatively certain it happened as much from internal metrics (from past comments we know Anet relies heavily on those) rather than complaints on the forums from people who didn’t buy the expansion.

Vayne.8563:

If only it were that simple. But it’s not. There’s an equation. For example, a lot of people might like the Living Story, which is part of what comes with the expansion. They can’t do the living story without owning the expansion, whether they liked the expansion content or not.

Then they buy the game, if they want the LS. What you are saying is that they should buy the game no matter what. Like it or not, just buy it. With that logic, people should just buy everything all the time. This is the argument you are making.

It’s a matter of moving forward with the game, or being locked into the core game forever, with very little new content. It’s not just about liking or not liking.

No. It’s a game. People play it because they enjoy or not. If they believe that they won’t enjoy content that they would have to pay for, then they shouldn’t buy it. You are only one step away from saying that they should be forced to buy it.

The situation would be vastly different if there were so many good MMOs out there, but from the point of view of many of us there aren’t. And yeah we get this game has it’s flaws, but compared to the alternatives, this is it…for many of us.

There are other alternatives to playing MMOs. No one has to play an MMO. No one should buy one MMO that they don’t like just because the others are arguably worse.

So not buying the expansion, like or or not, puts you in a kind of limbo. You’re just going to sit with what you’ve been doing all along. Very little new, and very little you can participate in.

No it doesn’t. OMG, life is not an MMO. Most especially life is not GW2. I’m a bit concerned that your argument here isn’t able to parse the difference.

If you’re okay with other MMOs out there, it’s less of a problem but not everyone is…in fact, I’d wager many people aren’t.

Again, life is not an MMO. People don’t have to buy a game they don’t like just because other games like it are arguable worse. WTF?

So if you don’t support this game, even if you don’t like the direction it’s going in currently, and there aren’t other MMOs to replace this one, then you’re sort of shooting yourself in the foot.

No. You do something else. Do you really need an MMO to live? This is getting deep into crazy territory.

You still try to change the game to the game you want, which some people did. It’s why the April update happened.

Which a lot of people didn’t like. The only truly effective way to get what you want in a game is to vote with your wallet. If the developer isn’t creating the content you want to play don’t buy it. If they are, buy it.

But I’m relatively certain it happened as much from internal metrics (from past comments we know Anet relies heavily on those) rather than complaints on the forums from people who didn’t buy the expansion.

I’m relatively certain that you are wrong and that you have no data to back up what you are saying. Because this wouldn’t be the first time you claimed something that you couldn’t support and just expected us to believe it.

Again, because this has to be said, life is not GW2! It is not an MMO. We will all be fine if we never play another MMO again. It’s a choice of entertainment. If it is not entertaining, then we shouldn’t pay for it.

Just because you’ve hooked this game up to your veins and need it to survive, doesn’t mean the rest of us need to invest in your folly. If you love this game so much, throw all your money at it. Leave us out of it.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Then they buy the game, if they want the LS. What you are saying is that they should buy the game no matter what. Like it or not, just buy it. With that logic, people should just buy everything all the time. This is the argument you are making.

It’s a matter of moving forward with the game, or being locked into the core game forever, with very little new content. It’s not just about liking or not liking.

snip

The situation would be vastly different if there were so many good MMOs out there, but from the point of view of many of us there aren’t. And yeah we get this game has it’s flaws, but compared to the alternatives, this is it…for many of us.

There are other alternatives to playing MMOs. No one has to play an MMO. No one should buy one MMO that they don’t like just because the others are arguably worse.

So not buying the expansion, like or or not, puts you in a kind of limbo. You’re just going to sit with what you’ve been doing all along. Very little new, and very little you can participate in.

No it doesn’t. OMG, life is not an MMO. Most especially life is not GW2. I’m a bit concerned that your argument here isn’t able to parse the difference.

If you’re okay with other MMOs out there, it’s less of a problem but not everyone is…in fact, I’d wager many people aren’t.

Again, life is not an MMO. People don’t have to buy a game they don’t like just because other games like it are arguable worse. WTF?

snip

No. You do something else. Do you really need an MMO to live? This is getting deep into crazy territory.

You still try to change the game to the game you want, which some people did. It’s why the April update happened.

Which a lot of people didn’t like. The only truly effective way to get what you want in a game is to vote with your wallet. If the developer isn’t creating the content you want to play don’t buy it. If they are, buy it.

But I’m relatively certain it happened as much from internal metrics (from past comments we know Anet relies heavily on those) rather than complaints on the forums from people who didn’t buy the expansion.

I’m relatively certain that you are wrong and that you have no data to back up what you are saying. Because this wouldn’t be the first time you claimed something that you couldn’t support and just expected us to believe it.

Again, because this has to be said, life is not GW2! It is not an MMO. We will all be fine if we never play another MMO again. It’s a choice of entertainment. If it is not entertaining, then we shouldn’t pay for it.

Just because you’ve hooked this game up to your veins and need it to survive, doesn’t mean the rest of us need to invest in your folly. If you love this game so much, throw all your money at it. Leave us out of it.

First of all, I haven’t hooked this game up to my veins. Anyone at all who knows me knows that whatever I do, I do fully. Doesn’t really matter what it is. I’ve always been like this. Some call it driven. You can call it what you want. I’ve done it with everything I’m into for my entire life. If I stop playing this I’ll get into something else, which is fine. I have no problem with it. This game has existed for four years. I promise you I had hobbies before this I was just as committed to and I’ll have hobbies after that I’m just as committed too. Doesn’t change a word about what I’ve said though.

My comments are based more on my experience with business than my love of this game. If you’ve even been paying a bit of attention you’d have noticed that I have my own complaints about the game lately. Of course, never let reality interfere with a good personal attack, I guess.

I’ve learned lessons playing this game too. I thought the devs of this game wanted the same game I wanted from the beginning. I later learned that was not the case. However, no MMO developer has ever made the game I would make, and if one had, I’m not sure it would be successful anyway.

Developers make games for a range of players. This game was made for a range of players. Some changes I like and some I don’t like. Saying that this is all I do is demonstrably wrong as anyone who actually knows me will tell you. I play this game less now than I used to, but I still believe what I’ve said.

Not buying the expansion gets you very very little say in the future of the game, because there’s no way anyone is going to know why you specifically didn’t buy it…even if you post here, it’s just a drop in the proverbial bucket.

But again, you’d prefer to make this about me than about what I’m saying. Not sure why you can’t just discuss opinions instead of making it personal, but that’s okay with me.