Having your avatar act against your will have been a thing since release though.
Taunt seems to basically be an opposite Fear. Instead of running away, you are running towards the foe.
Yes, I am no fan of Fear either, and see this as doubling down on it. At least with fear though, you move away from the enemy. This can be dangerous in some cases, but it’s more a defensive maneuver, you’re more likely to be safer running away, and you just end up dealing less damage. Forcing a player to run into the enemy is far more suicidal, it forces you to just take whatever the enemy cares to serve to you. I am no fan of this.
Having your avatar act against your will have been a thing since release though.
Taunt seems to basically be an opposite Fear. Instead of running away, you are running towards the foe.Yes, I am no fan of Fear either, and see this as doubling down on it. At least with fear though, you move away from the enemy. This can be dangerous in some cases, but it’s more a defensive maneuver, you’re more likely to be safer running away, and you just end up dealing less damage. Forcing a player to run into the enemy is far more suicidal, it forces you to just take whatever the enemy cares to serve to you. I am no fan of this.
This means you’ll want to keep a stun breaker on your bar, or stability. I see this as making people be more cognizant of their build and play style, which in turn is a good thing. Makes being a mindless beserker or glass cannon a bit more dangerous which is yet another good thing in my opinion.
So what I took from the threads and article today.
-Condition thieves/mesmers/engi’s are finally getting some sort of counter in WvW
-People running with no stun break will drown us in tears
- Celestial heavy class seems like a thing that may happen
-Tank rev is going to be funny in classic spvp
-Revenants will go through a 3 month period of being “OP” because people wont adapt
-Quickness counter
- PvE will become a tad bit harder because of the new boons and conditions, forcing some of the pure zerk community to reconsider there options, for once.
I can understand that locking the utlity skills based on Legends invoked is thematically sound. I don’ think they should allow you to use utility skills from a different Legend while invoking the first. What I do think would be nice is if we have more than just 3 utility skills per Legend so we can actually have some customization. Something like:
Legend X has utility skills 1,2,3,4,5,6 to choose 3 from.
Legend Y has utlity skills 7,8,9,10,11,12 to choose 3 from.
Legend Z has utility skills 13,14,15,16,17,18 to choose 3 from.
To use any 3 equipped from Legend X you need to have Legend X invoked. To use any 3 equipped on the bar from Lengend Y you need to have Legend Y invoked and so on.
This can still retain the playstyle per Legend. Legend X (Jalis for example) can have all his utility options focused on tanky brawling. Legend Y (Malyx) can have his utility skills focused on conditions.
This means you’ll want to keep a stun breaker on your bar, or stability.
Well thank you, I’ve never played this game before so I found that comment extremely informative.
Now, maybe you could let me know what to do when I am Feared, and use my stunbreak, and am Taunted, and use my second stunbreak, because who slots just one, and then am Taunted again? Are there any stunbreaks with less than five second cooldowns that I’m not aware of? Should I pack three stunbreakers, and if so, why don’t they just remove all the utilities that aren’t stunbreakers?
This means you’ll want to keep a stun breaker on your bar, or stability.
Well thank you, I’ve never played this game before so I found that comment extremely informative.
Now, maybe you could let me know what to do when I am Feared, and use my stunbreak, and am Taunted, and use my second stunbreak, because who slots just one, and then am Taunted again? Are there any stunbreaks with less than five second cooldowns that I’m not aware of? Should I pack three stunbreakers, and if so, why don’t they just remove all the utilities that aren’t stunbreakers?
Not sure how this is any different than the current situation of fear, knock down, knock back, and pull. The opportunity cost of Taunt means you have one less of some other sort of cc, and they all have the same functional effect. Condition stripping works, so allies have plenty of options for removing the effect too.
The only thing that’d really make it interesting rather than just being a reverse fear, is if it forces targets to autoattack, and then only because of the interaction with things like Confusion and Projectile reflection.
Honestly, everything in the post made me nerdgasm lol
Love the revenant UI and can’t wait to play it(most likely will be my new main)
Already making all ascended weapons for it, and will work on armor after… full zerk ofc (not because of meta, but because i REALLY like zerk playstyle .. been using zerker since day one and probably will always use it)
Already have the b-day scroll + 60 tomes and ~500 skill scrolls ready
(Inb4 “if you insta-80, you won’t know your class” rant …. I’ll go insta 80 and read/learn skills, you go hobble through the levels and 1v1 me when you hit 80 and we will see who learns faster/better)
Can’t wait to try the mallyx legend out against some of those condis in pvp/wvw
And it sounds like a professions with a very steep learning curve but will wreck when mastered and i love professions like that
Will deff be watching the twitch stream friday >.>
Condition stripping works too btw, so allies have plenty of options for removing the effect too.
What makes you think taunt is a condition? To me it sound more like a normal status effect like a stun, daze etc.
Condition stripping works too btw, so allies have plenty of options for removing the effect too.
What makes you think taunt is a condition? To me it sound more like a normal status effect like a stun, daze etc.
Ah, you’re right, it is listed that way. All the references to Fear, which is a condition, got me confused.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: GoldenTruth.2853
I can understand that locking the utlity skills based on Legends invoked is thematically sound. I don’ think they should allow you to use utility skills from a different Legend while invoking the first. What I do think would be nice is if we have more than just 3 utility skills per Legend so we can actually have some customization. Something like:
Legend X has utility skills 1,2,3,4,5,6 to choose 3 from.
Legend Y has utlity skills 7,8,9,10,11,12 to choose 3 from.
Legend Z has utility skills 13,14,15,16,17,18 to choose 3 from.
To use any 3 equipped from Legend X you need to have Legend X invoked. To use any 3 equipped on the bar from Lengend Y you need to have Legend Y invoked and so on.
This can still retain the playstyle per Legend. Legend X (Jalis for example) can have all his utility options focused on tanky brawling. Legend Y (Malyx) can have his utility skills focused on conditions.
This is what I would love to see even at the cost of additional Legends (even a choice of 6 utilities, 1 heal, 1 elite would be good enough). Several people have suggested adding utilities that are non-legend dependent, but I feel that would also hinder the uniqueness of the profession’s mechanics. After all, using a Mallyx legend only to have 2/3 of the utility slots be a basic damage dealer or a passive buff hurts some of the uniqueness of actually being attuned to that legend. By giving an (albeit limited) choice of utility slots unique to that legend to choose from, the attuned legend remains feeling relevant while allowing for the Revenant to be far more adaptable.
(edited by GoldenTruth.2853)
I can understand that locking the utlity skills based on Legends invoked is thematically sound. I don’ think they should allow you to use utility skills from a different Legend while invoking the first. What I do think would be nice is if we have more than just 3 utility skills per Legend so we can actually have some customization. Something like:
Legend X has utility skills 1,2,3,4,5,6 to choose 3 from.
Legend Y has utlity skills 7,8,9,10,11,12 to choose 3 from.
Legend Z has utility skills 13,14,15,16,17,18 to choose 3 from.
To use any 3 equipped from Legend X you need to have Legend X invoked. To use any 3 equipped on the bar from Lengend Y you need to have Legend Y invoked and so on.
This can still retain the playstyle per Legend. Legend X (Jalis for example) can have all his utility options focused on tanky brawling. Legend Y (Malyx) can have his utility skills focused on conditions.
This is what I would love to see even at the cost of additional Legends (even a choice of 6 utilities, 1 heal, 1 elite would be good enough). Several people have suggested adding utilities that are non-legend dependent, but I feel that would also hinder the uniqueness of the profession’s mechanics. After all, using a Mallyx legend only to have 2/3 of the utility slots be a basic damage dealer or a passive buff hurts some of the uniqueness of actually being attuned to that legend. By giving an (albeit limited) choice of utility slots unique to that legend to choose from, the attuned legend remains feeling relevant while allowing for the Revenant to be far more adaptable.
I also agree with this. I think having pools of utilities for each legend to pick from is the best of both worlds: thematic and diverse. I really hope Anet decides to go that direction and comes up with some fun utilities in there.
Meh. Looks overcompensated and overcomplicated already. Time will tell all tales. I’m not getting even remotely excited for this until I have it in my hot little hands and find that it doesn’t suck.
That may be never. We shall see.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Oldirtbeard.9834
Seems to me the Hammer abilities mixed with the Dwarf Legend sounds like my favorite Crusader build in D3; swirling Hammers shields, ranged Hammer throws, baked in defensive Tankyness, a taunt (this sounds full of win)!
LOL I imagine a zerk of revenants with “resistance” boon honing in on a group of condi spitting enemies..“bye bye”
The info so far makes it look as if certain builds for Rev are basically hard counters to condition builds.
I wonder if taunt will be an interrupt like fear is. The description makes it seem like it would be but can see ways for it to not be.
LOL I imagine a zerk of revenants with “resistance” boon honing in on a group of condi spitting enemies..“bye bye”
Well of corruption finishes this zerg.
Which brings me to the question, what condition is opposite to resistance boon?
This legend chanel thing comes from the ranger CDI. There was an idea of “aspects”. Perma stowe pets for bonuses. So no perma stowe in HoT :/
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Carlin Sanders.3587
It may be just a ‘beta’ thing, but i happen to notice no weapon switch option on the revenant skill bar. does this indicate revenants won’t be able to switch weapons? It makes sense if yes, given that we have one medium armor with only one weapon [engineer] and one light armor [elementalist] since revenant would complete this list – not to mention would make revenant more powerful than intended if they could have more than one weapon set. (i mean, having a second 1-5 bar AND a second 6-0 bar? just a teensy bit OP with the right build.)
I think you can choose 2 rules with revenant. I bet there will be a condi, a tank, a dps, a burst, a buffer, an assassin (1 for every role) and with weapons you can chose a counter role (range, melee, condi)
Can we imagine the Revenant as a class who uses forms like the norn blessings (Ursan, etc) from “Eye of the North” more than a Dervish (with his avatars), because we can use weapons comprehensive?
I don’t want to blame you for warming up old stuff (because lots of stuff was great back then), but I want to have a clear idea of the class and the way to play it.
It may be just a ‘beta’ thing, but i happen to notice no weapon switch option on the revenant skill bar. does this indicate revenants won’t be able to switch weapons?
Revenants don’t have access to weapon swap:
“This profession doesn’t have access to weapon swap, but its legends more than make up for that, which you’ll read about below.”
As far as resistance I read it as you’ll be immune to any condis during the duration, and if there was any remaining, they would continue as normal. Which would mean that they could still be applied during the time resistance was up, but have no effect until resistance ran out. But I could be wrong.
You are correct.
Roy, will the resistance mechanic replace the current implementation of things like Berserker Stance? So when you activate Berserker Stance, you’ll simply gain 4 seconds of Resistance?
If so, will you also be introducing the similar mechanic for physical defenses like Endure Pain?
I have a question. Could the Revenant head band be hidden, as with helmet ?
I have a question. Could the Revenant head band be hidden, as with helmet ?
This is only an assumption, but I’d imagine yes. The class probably starts with several headband options just like a Necromancer starts with several different eye options. These are effectively a helmet and can be replaced or turned off at will.
The skills on the right half of your bar are tied to the legend which you are currently invoking.
Lets see if I can phrase this unambiguously:
When I am invoking Bob the Mighty, will I have a Bob-themed pool of skills to choose from when filling out my right-hand tray, or does channeling Bob the Mighty give me an absolutely specific set of 5 skills without variation from any other Revenant invoking Bob?
I realize the answer may be different for buttons 6 and 0 than it is for buttons 7, 8, & 9.
That is not set in stone yet and something we are deciding still.
As noted earlier in the thread if there isn’t a choice it appears the revenant will feature less customisation than other classes and may be quite inflexible.
There options really are the legends you bring which offer unique playstyles and skills, I can see your point though.
I’m actually ok with them not being able to select from a pool of utility skills.
That will set them in stone, but would also mean that switching legends switchs your utility skills as well, which is awesome in most degrees. Also, balance is going to be easier.
As I see it, later specializations will unluck new Legends and thus, more Legendary-combos. It’s surely a cool design.
“I am running Malyx-Rukik”.
“Dwarf king-Shiro is the new meta lol”.
Another article with some additional info. A few tidbits
-and the spirits your harnessing themselves will talk to you like you’re actually possessing them…Each Legend has their voiceover effects added.
-[energy] recharges at 5 per second, with a max of 100 (all numbers are of course subject to change)
-The team also tried to add passive perks to each Legend, but it just didn’t work and could tend to bog people down into using just one legend.
- Roy noted that the mobility of the Revenant in combat is a lot like the Thief’s out of combat… but he’s definitely not as mobile as the Thief when not in a fight drawing upon the Mists.
-Skills that were not given in the blog are:
MACE: Searing Fissure – You’ll slam down, creating pulsing area of burning fire. Essentially, it’s like an actual crack in the earth that burns a ton of enemies in front of you, and leaves a burning condition on them as well.
MACE: Echoing Erruption – With this the player jumps into the air, slamming into the ground, and creates a shockwave that cascades out from the landing point into waves with each wave doing damage. Like Searing Fissure and other Mace skills, this is about lining enemies up and blasting them with finishers.
HAMMER: Drop the Hammer – This one is a ground targeted AOE knockdown. You target a large area, swing your hammer, and then a giant Mist hammer comes swirling out of the nether knocks everyone in that area down. It’s only got a 15 second cooldown for now, but a higher Energy cost… still, imagine this in WvW?
AXE: Frigid Blitz – This allows the player to hurl an ice axe through the air, chilling everyone (slowing them), and when it reaches the actual highlighted target you teleport to him and do a melee spinning attack that ends up behind the enemy, chilling him too. A key thing Jon noted is that you can use one Axe skill mentioned in the blog to pull together a clump of enemies, and then use this to go through them all and wind up at the rear-most one.
Some really good stuff there!
HAMMER: Drop the Hammer – This one is a ground targeted AOE knockdown. You target a large area, swing your hammer, and then a giant Mist hammer comes swirling out of the nether knocks everyone in that area down. It’s only got a 15 second cooldown for now, but a higher Energy cost… still, imagine this in WvW?
I am gonna troll ppl so hard with that hammer ability.
Also
“With that we came to a close. Roy noted that the mobility of the Revenant in combat is a lot like the Thief’s out of combat but he’s definitely not as mobile as the Thief when not in a fight drawing upon the Mists.”
The skills on the right half of your bar are tied to the legend which you are currently invoking.
Lets see if I can phrase this unambiguously:
When I am invoking Bob the Mighty, will I have a Bob-themed pool of skills to choose from when filling out my right-hand tray, or does channeling Bob the Mighty give me an absolutely specific set of 5 skills without variation from any other Revenant invoking Bob?
I realize the answer may be different for buttons 6 and 0 than it is for buttons 7, 8, & 9.
That is not set in stone yet and something we are deciding still.
As noted earlier in the thread if there isn’t a choice it appears the revenant will feature less customisation than other classes and may be quite inflexible.
There options really are the legends you bring which offer unique playstyles and skills, I can see your point though.
TLDR If the legends are the options then how many there are and how they are implemented should lead to equivalence with the amount of choice a normal profession gets, in order to not feel like a kitten to the players /TLDR
I think an important question then is around how many legends will there be to unlock, and how many can we slot. Because if the legends are the options then in my opinion for it to not feel like a kitten there needs to be an equivalent amount of choice to another profession with their slot skills.
Complete spit balling, but I think I would be happy with 12 legends to chose from and the ability to slot 3 in. (a pool of 60 skills and the ability to chose 25% of them at once.)
Either this or give us the ability to select skill types and a smaller number of legends available and that we can slot in. For example you have three heal skill options with the following descriptions (Reliable basic heal, healing over time, and situational based heal) and then depending on what ledged is channeled determines what actual skill is in that slot.
Spit balling again, but with this I would be happy with 3 heal and 3 elite skill options, and 6 utility skill options coupled with 5 legends and being able to slot 2 in. (a pool of 15 heal and 15 elite skill with the ability to chose 13% of them at once, and a pool of 30 utility skills with the ability to choose 20% of them at once)
Granted this is whole from a player prospective, and I can see how balancing and creating so many skills for one class may be daunting. However, in the first solution since the skills are locked into sets then in reality it is only 12 sets that need to be balanced (not 60 skills that can be slotted together in any way). In the second solution balance may be bit a bit harder, but for creating them it is only 21 skill types to create and just put the legend’s twist on them.
HAMMER: Drop the Hammer – This one is a ground targeted AOE knockdown. You target a large area, swing your hammer, and then a giant Mist hammer comes swirling out of the nether knocks everyone in that area down. It’s only got a 15 second cooldown for now, but a higher Energy cost… still, imagine this in WvW?
Does that mean this skill isn’t bound to the 5-cap limit of regular AoE’s? Or was this misrepresented?
HAMMER: Drop the Hammer – This one is a ground targeted AOE knockdown. You target a large area, swing your hammer, and then a giant Mist hammer comes swirling out of the nether knocks everyone in that area down. It’s only got a 15 second cooldown for now, but a higher Energy cost… still, imagine this in WvW?
Does that mean this skill isn’t bound to the 5-cap limit of regular AoE’s? Or was this misrepresented?
It’s going to follow the AE cap. If they changed the AE cap is anyone’s guess. But as far as we know, it’ll probably be 5.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180
I think an important question then is around how many legends will there be to unlock, and how many can we slot. Because if the legends are the options then in my opinion for it to not feel like a kitten there needs to be an equivalent amount of choice to another profession with their slot skills.
Complete spit balling, but I think I would be happy with 12 legends to chose from and the ability to slot 3 in. (a pool of 60 skills and the ability to chose 25% of them at once.)
Confirmed you can only slot 2 Legends.
I think an important question then is around how many legends will there be to unlock, and how many can we slot. Because if the legends are the options then in my opinion for it to not feel like a kitten there needs to be an equivalent amount of choice to another profession with their slot skills.
Complete spit balling, but I think I would be happy with 12 legends to chose from and the ability to slot 3 in. (a pool of 60 skills and the ability to chose 25% of them at once.)
Confirmed you can only slot 2 Legends.
I saw this and I understand that this is the current build of the revenant, but given that a dev as stated things are not set in stone and anet’s iterative design process, I could see them easily making it so you can slot 3 in order to allow for more build diversity, if beta testers find that it is lacking.
I saw this and I understand that this is the current build of the revenant, but given that a dev as stated things are not set in stone and anet’s iterative design process, I could see them easily making it so you can slot 3 in order to allow for more build diversity, if beta testers find that it is lacking.
It does seem like being able to instantly swap between three more or less completely different specs would be rather overpowered.
so….another profession i am gonna hate, it’s bad enough to have an energy bar on the thief, now they are making the exact same mistake with the new guy.
worse, they even make it more limited then the engineer and that’s already bad enough, no weapon swap with such a utility skill limit is really the worst they can do.
So someone at Arenanet looked at what’s missing from the game and said: “You know what, what we really need to do is introduce fewer ways of customizing character builds, more ways of crippling those pesky overpowered condition builds, more ways of slowing down characters, and at least one or two more effects that take away control from the player. Yeah, everybody loves those things, right?”
One of the major complaints from before even the release of the game is the sheer lack of customization of your character’s attack pattern. You wanna play with a sword? Have fun using the exact same attack sequence as everyone else for the next few years. Because Grenth forbid new players get a little confused (this attitude actually went so far beyond the extreme with NPE). But hey, at least we had another 5 skills that were completely customizable. Well, I guess that was far too confusing, so not only is the Revenant gonna be able to wield only one weapon, but their skill builds will consist of a whopping choice of selecting all of two presets. That sounds like hours and hours of fun.
Resistance and taunt actually sounded somewhat exciting when I first read that blog. I figured, “Hey, we might finally be able to do some proper crowd control and tanking.” Then I considered what happens when those effects are used against you and I became absolutely disgusted with the idea. Condition builds have already been getting the short end of the stick from the very beginning, so unless there is some major overhauling of the entire system on the horizon, I really don’t see why we need more ways of making them obsolete. And taunt is just gonna be obnoxious when used against you. I mean, no one likes losing control of their character, and I carry at least one stun break on all my characters already.
I’ve been mad about all the slowing effects ever since the so called “combat speed” was introduced to the game, which essentially made it so that every attack sustained automatically cripples the character (because adrenaline makes you slow down, obviously). And on top of that we have the actual cripple and chill, the latter being especially annoying. But I guess we need more ways of slowing down characters to a crawl. Making combat less fluent is a great idea.
I’m excited as hell about the expansion, but I sincerely hope there’s a lot of iteration left to be done, because if this is an example of things to come, I don’t really think the game is going in the right direction for me. None of it is sounding particularly fun for a veteran GW player such as myself.
(edited by Keneth.6490)
I think what is odd about this class is that, based on the thief we would expect a resource class to not have real cool downs since the cap on their skill use is their energy. But with their heal and elite skills (i’m ok with the utility skills swapping out, since they don’t have a weapon swap or kit/weapon ability) being tied to their legend, we now have a class that can instantly cast two heals and two elite skills in a row, and if they don’t have some sort of meaningful cooldown, it will quickly become overpowered. Their heals and elites are all ready doubly effective, which means they will need large cooldowns to compensate.
…well if they really do lock the utility bar down then this is most likely going to be the lamest class in gw2. No weapon swap? Alright.. i get it, we got it with ele and engi who got their strong sides in attuments and kits to make up for it and free choice of what to slot, how to slot it and when to use it…if its not on cooldown obviosly and thats a perfectly fine and cool system. Locked utility skills AND no weapon swap? Hell no… thats like in a moba game where your char got a locked skillset, whats not an insult to mobas.. they are MADE that way afterall and usually got a kittenload of chars to choose from like dota2 with its 109 playable chars… but gw2 is a darn MMO ugh…. so whats the next class they add gonna do? Only 1 weapon in general and locking down traits to static builds? I mean might aswell if they go that route. Seriosly a-net.. if the rev is gonna have locked down skills then this is gonna blow hardcore…dont mess this up… seriosly DONT mess it up.
All of this????????
In discussing with some other people, it was pointed out that the Rev could be balanced around swapping your weapon out of combat regularly for different fights, as we do now for utilities and I think if that is executed properly it could be really fun. It just depends on how well the weapons mesh with the locked in elements of the Legends. Looking forward to seeing these guys in action.
The skills on the right half of your bar are tied to the legend which you are currently invoking.
Lets see if I can phrase this unambiguously:
When I am invoking Bob the Mighty, will I have a Bob-themed pool of skills to choose from when filling out my right-hand tray, or does channeling Bob the Mighty give me an absolutely specific set of 5 skills without variation from any other Revenant invoking Bob?
I realize the answer may be different for buttons 6 and 0 than it is for buttons 7, 8, & 9.
That is not set in stone yet and something we are deciding still.
I know you just stated this is something that you’re still deciding on, but I have to say, having your 6-0 (or a subset of that) based on who you’re channeling seems like it would severely limit the build choices and make it a predictable class with the only surprise being the legend swap. What if each skill were like glyph of storms in that the exact effect changed based on the attunment (channel) but generally did similar things. 2 legends and a single weapon doesn’t seem like enough to make the class feel like your own in terms of combat.
“With that we came to a close. Roy noted that the mobility of the Revenant in combat is a lot like the Thief’s out of combat but he’s definitely not as mobile as the Thief when not in a fight drawing upon the Mists.”
Translation: Revenant can reach places almost as fast as a thief, but once in combat doesn’t have nearly the amount of sticking power or “slipperiness” to disengage.
In discussing with some other people, it was pointed out that the Rev could be balanced around swapping your weapon out of combat regularly for different fights, as we do now for utilities and I think if that is executed properly it could be really fun. It just depends on how well the weapons mesh with the locked in elements of the Legends. Looking forward to seeing these guys in action.
That doesn’t work in PvP so that isn’t likely.
This is how I picture it working:
There are 4 legends, 5 heals, 4 elites, and 30 utility skills to choose from.
A player can choose 2 legends which will narrow this down to a choice between 3 heals (1 per legend and 1 the class can use regardless), 2 elites (1 elite per legend), and each legend probably has something like 5 legend specific utility skills and 5 generic utility skills that are shared with more than 1 legend. So that gives them roughly 15-20 utility skills to choose from.
Even just that is a pretty decent amount of flexibility and customization. This could be further expanded if there was a third option of having 0 legends activated.
I’m sure when it comes out players will be happy with what they have.
It’s also worth noting that most classes really only have about half of their utility skills and maybe 1 elite and 2 heals at best to choose from. Everything else is sub par at best.
I think what is odd about this class is that, based on the thief we would expect a resource class to not have real cool downs since the cap on their skill use is their energy. But with their heal and elite skills (i’m ok with the utility skills swapping out, since they don’t have a weapon swap or kit/weapon ability) being tied to their legend, we now have a class that can instantly cast two heals and two elite skills in a row, and if they don’t have some sort of meaningful cooldown, it will quickly become overpowered. Their heals and elites are all ready doubly effective, which means they will need large cooldowns to compensate.
1- you assume that the heal + elite will cost less than 50 energy combined. i sincerely doubt the elite alone would cost less than 50 energy. and yes, you can use two healing skills at once, but much like spamming a high initiative skill, doing so will leave you extremely vulnerable, as you won’t have the resources to do anything else.
2- the thief initiative works very differently from the revenant’s energy. for one, initiative is only tied to our weapons, our utilities still have 40-60s CDs. second, when a thief swaps weapons, they don’t regain initiative unless they have a very specific trait equipped (and even then, it’s “gain 3 initiative on swap”, not “reset the ini bar” ). third, the initiative pool is much smaller than the energy pool, with even the simplest of attacks costing at least 25% of our bar.
i’m pretty confident that once people get hands-on with the revenant, the differences between its resource management and initiative management will be pretty clear.
In discussing with some other people, it was pointed out that the Rev could be balanced around swapping your weapon out of combat regularly for different fights, as we do now for utilities and I think if that is executed properly it could be really fun. It just depends on how well the weapons mesh with the locked in elements of the Legends. Looking forward to seeing these guys in action.
That doesn’t work in PvP so that isn’t likely.
This is how I picture it working:
There are 4 legends, 5 heals, 4 elites, and 30 utility skills to choose from.
A player can choose 2 legends which will narrow this down to a choice between 3 heals (1 per legend and 1 the class can use regardless), 2 elites (1 elite per legend), and each legend probably has something like 5 legend specific utility skills and 5 generic utility skills that are shared with more than 1 legend. So that gives them roughly 15-20 utility skills to choose from.
Even just that is a pretty decent amount of flexibility and customization. This could be further expanded if there was a third option of having 0 legends activated.
I’m sure when it comes out players will be happy with what they have.
It’s also worth noting that most classes really only have about half of their utility skills and maybe 1 elite and 2 heals at best to choose from. Everything else is sub par at best.
that’s what i’m hoping we’ll get, a fixed set of utilities per legend, but with some utilities that aren’t necessarily exclusive to any particular legend.
I saw this and I understand that this is the current build of the revenant, but given that a dev as stated things are not set in stone and anet’s iterative design process, I could see them easily making it so you can slot 3 in order to allow for more build diversity, if beta testers find that it is lacking.
It does seem like being able to instantly swap between three more or less completely different specs would be rather overpowered.
Not necessarily and it depends on how the class plays (witch we don’t know yet). The legends don’t have to be completely different, but rather permutations. For the tankie role you could have a stable tank (less condi clear, less strait damage mitigation, and more anti CC), an armor tank ( less condi clear, more strait damage mitigation, and less anti CC), and a condi tank (more condi clear, less strait damage mitigation, and less anti CC). Gear and traits could sort of lock you into a tanki role (sure you could have a dps legend on your bar, but you not going to fit that role as well), but you could switch on the fly what sort of tank you want to play. Granted this is all speculation and we really don’t know at all how the revenant will play. (perhaps with all of the synergies between skills the revenant will have play diversity (how you rotate your skills) instead of build diversity)
INC long post
As far as the utility skills … it seems that they will be able to be swapped around to an extent given the arrows at the top of the utility skills in the UI pictures. and as far as unlocking the utilities I wonder if they will unlock differently as opposed to the “3 tier” utility unlocks
e.g.
let just say there are 4 legends (the 4 base playstyles) — Jalis(Tanky), Mallyx(Condi dps), physical dps legend, support legend
given that all professions have 20 utility skills (viewing only 6,7,8, and not counting race skills or heal/elite)
instead of having the three tiers of utilities, there will be a base 5 utilities that can be unlocked and swapped out no matter what legend you channel
Mallyx has X skills that can only be used while channeling mallyx
Jalis has X skills that can only be used while channeling Jalis
etc.. all adding up to a total of 20 utility skills for balance purposes ( sort of?)
TL;DR
I’m sure there will be some customization to the skills, just more so in the legends you pick each fight, as opposed to choosing 20 utility skills at any given time (you don’t typically use them all anyways, just a select few that fit your build)
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180
“With that we came to a close. Roy noted that the mobility of the Revenant in combat is a lot like the Thief’s out of combat but he’s definitely not as mobile as the Thief when not in a fight drawing upon the Mists.”
Translation: Revenant can reach places almost as fast as a thief, but once in combat doesn’t have nearly the amount of sticking power or “slipperiness” to disengage.
I read it as the opposite. Out of combat, they’re as slow as a Necro, but in combat, they can get wherever they want.
“With that we came to a close. Roy noted that the mobility of the Revenant in combat is a lot like the Thief’s out of combat but he’s definitely not as mobile as the Thief when not in a fight drawing upon the Mists.”
Translation: Revenant can reach places almost as fast as a thief, but once in combat doesn’t have nearly the amount of sticking power or “slipperiness” to disengage.
I read it as the opposite. Out of combat, they’re as slow as a Necro, but in combat, they can get wherever they want.
oh wait, i thought he was comparing OoC thief with OoC revenant.
well, a lot of thief mobility requires a target (thus being “in-combat”) so i’d expect something like costly high mobility skills or leaps, but not necessarily sticking power or the ability to slip out of combat fast.
I’ve been thinking and I’ve decided I don’t like the 50% energy refill on swapping legends. I’m taking a glass half empty view on that one.
Why? Well with giving revenants a resource bat they’ve moved away from the GW2 norm of combat playing you rather than the other way around – executing skills just because they’ve come off cooldown, weapon swapping to take advantage of skills not on cooldown etc. Giving a resource bar makes combat more strategic. You execute abilities because it makes sense to do so, not to squeeze the most value out of cooldowns.
The energy bar being half full when you switch legends seems intended to encourage arbitrarily swapping legends to take advantage of the energy refill, rather than because your other legend is better suited to the current state of the field of combat. That’s a big shame.
Personally I hope they rethink this or at least offer traits which alter this mechanic – eg. to give us a single shared energy bar which remains the same when you switch legends and maybe boost the base regen a little to compensate.
traits are modifiers, not whole new skills.
That’s true for many but definitely not all. Some traits radically change existing skills, eg. elementalists inflicting burns on crits plus inflicting blind on burning. Suddenly you’ve got an eyeful of blinding coming out of nowhere thanks to traits.
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