Guild Wars 2

I’m noticing that Anet is running into the same problem, all MMO devs do. With every new expansion, comes the inevitable obsoletion of former content.

Now, the hero challenges of yore, will be replaced with the new content. Why scour Tyria, for 1pt each, when you can just power level, and go straight to Maguuma Jungle?

All this seems like a bad idea, and just an excuse to make veterans work more for what they’ve already done.

Or it will encourage more people who bought the base game to buy the expansion because it is easier. Frankly there’ll be plenty of incentive to go back to old areas anyway.

Nothing has changed about the hero challenges before or after the expansion. Once you reach level 80, before the expansion, you have enough points to unlock all traits and abilities. They have no purpose other than for map/world completion. With the expansion, they have an additional purpose for the elite specializations where there also happens to be an additional source in HoT. The old Tyria hero points are still needed to craft the original legendary weapons.

This is almost like saying Anet made them obsolete when they introduced champ farming for skill point scrolls. Except nobody made this complaint back then.

I don’t see where the old content is obsolete. You won’t find low tier materials in the new zones (and they are still needed to craft ascended) and Orr will still be a good place to farm T6. Hero point are still good to boost a new toon character progression, and since people will be able to craft the precursor of their choice, map completion will still be a thing for the Legendary set1 crafting. Those who have unused HP on their toon (like me) have a little boost in the Espec progression in HoT.
Honestly, having played other MMOs I think this game’s expansion is way better at not deleting all your progression. My gear is still valid, money is expected to not be devaluated and all materials already in my bank will have the same use in the next months…. so no the old content is not becoming obsolete.

By completing the existing world, you will be 50% of the way through every time they add a new elite specialization. Considering these specialization include other stuff, you’d likely be able to fully unlock the necessities about 25% of the way through the expansion. That’s a huge difference if you actually wanted to use it.

Why scour Tyria for 1 pt each? Because the world will always be there and there’s still map completion and additional rewards. Eventually you’ll have nothing better to do, unless you’re one of those people.

Yeah, I think it was a design choice.
They didn’t want people with 100% world completion to immediately unlock the entire elite specialisation. But they don’t want people without world completion to have to do hundreds of hero points to be able to unlock the entire spec (60 just to start it).
I imagine this was the reason they were originally planning not to give you enough points just from levelling to unlock everything in your base class. They were probably planning for some of your base class to act as a hero point sink.

I think the route they’ve chosen was a fairly good one.

Vayne.8563:

Or it will encourage more people who bought the base game to buy the expansion because it is easier. Frankly there’ll be plenty of incentive to go back to old areas anyway.

if they truly wanted this they wouldnt had bundled the core game to the expansion to forcefully sell it for 50$+ and would ve offered the expansion individually for those with the core game

i am a developer and work on net working as well and i know there is absolutely no limitations to having both options heck many older games have been doing it before even the mmorpg that must not be mentioned has done it .

Rezzet.3614:

Vayne.8563:

Or it will encourage more people who bought the base game to buy the expansion because it is easier. Frankly there’ll be plenty of incentive to go back to old areas anyway.

if they truly wanted this they wouldnt had bundled the core game to the expansion to forcefully sell it for 50$+ and would ve offered the expansion individually for those with the core game

i am a developer and work on net working as well and i know there is absolutely no limitations to having both options heck many older games have been doing it before even the mmorpg that must not be mentioned has done it .

The expansion costs $50 with or without the core game being free when applied towards a new account.

and yes they ve solely focused on this expansion , they even stated there wont be new content for the core game for a while as they ll keep focused on making living story content for the expansion .

IchbinVol.5407:

I’m noticing that Anet is running into the same problem, all MMO devs do. With every new expansion, comes the inevitable obsoletion of former content.

Now, the hero challenges of yore, will be replaced with the new content. Why scour Tyria, for 1pt each, when you can just power level, and go straight to Maguuma Jungle?

All this seems like a bad idea, and just an excuse to make veterans work more for what they’ve already done.

How is that a “problem” exactly? I had fun in WoW leveling in some undead zones in Cataclysm, but you evolve past the enemies in those areas and canonically solve the problems in the region. Your power and some 500 HP average Joe have a huge gap. For perspective Batman as a peak human would very likely have stats similar to a level 30 warrior perhaps even with optimal gear for that stage. Weapons are good for a certain stage then you outgrow them as they aren’t adequate enough to face new threats. How many rockets does Claw of Jormag take exactly? Lots more than the Punisher could carry.

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

Yeah, I really don’t know where they’re going, with this. This is my point, though. They’re literally abandoning the old content. They are doing exactly what every dead mmo has done, in the past.

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you and you’re making the mistake assuming that the only reason they could be making those changes is to get more people to play the expansion areas. There are more possible reasons than just that.

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

IchbinVol.5407:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

Yeah, I really don’t know where they’re going, with this. This is my point, though. They’re literally abandoning the old content. They are doing exactly what every dead mmo has done, in the past.

They are not abandoning old content.

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

Yes. I’d do dungeons for the tokens. In fact, that has been the only reason that I have done them.

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

Yeah, I really don’t know where they’re going, with this. This is my point, though. They’re literally abandoning the old content. They are doing exactly what every dead mmo has done, in the past.

They are not abandoning old content.

how does the old dungeons nerf benefit the non expansion gameplay ?

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

Yes. I’d do dungeons for the tokens. In fact, that has been the only reason that I have done them.

Same here, but how many others would have the same mindset? Gl finding a party…

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

Yes. I’d do dungeons for the tokens. In fact, that has been the only reason that I have done them.

Same here, but how many others would have the same mindset? Gl finding a party…

Any evidence that it will be difficult to find a party?

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

Yes. I’d do dungeons for the tokens. In fact, that has been the only reason that I have done them.

Same here, but how many others would have the same mindset? Gl finding a party…

Any evidence that it will be difficult to find a party?

some dungeons are already deserted like caudecus manor you’re out of luck if under 80 as the most i see is like 1 party bout every 6 hours asking for : 80s experienced berserker only.

Rezzet.3614:

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

Yes. I’d do dungeons for the tokens. In fact, that has been the only reason that I have done them.

Same here, but how many others would have the same mindset? Gl finding a party…

Any evidence that it will be difficult to find a party?

some dungeons are already deserted like caudecus manor you’re out of luck if under 80 as the most i see is like 1 party bout every 6 hours asking for : 80s experienced berserker only.

It’s always been like that. Have you tried forming a party around reset? Some of the least popular dungeons have a better chance of getting done around that time.

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

Yes. I’d do dungeons for the tokens. In fact, that has been the only reason that I have done them.

You could earn those tokens faster in PvP tracks.

Agemnon.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

Yes. I’d do dungeons for the tokens. In fact, that has been the only reason that I have done them.

You could earn those tokens faster in PvP tracks.

Only because of the daily time-gating which has nothing to do with the expansion which is what this thread is about.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezzet.3614:

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

Yes. I’d do dungeons for the tokens. In fact, that has been the only reason that I have done them.

Same here, but how many others would have the same mindset? Gl finding a party…

Any evidence that it will be difficult to find a party?

some dungeons are already deserted like caudecus manor you’re out of luck if under 80 as the most i see is like 1 party bout every 6 hours asking for : 80s experienced berserker only.

It’s always been like that. Have you tried forming a party around reset? Some of the least popular dungeons have a better chance of getting done around that time.

still means you ll have to do dungeons at specific times if you want to party up and this is before the nerf .

Rezzet.3614:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rezzet.3614:

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

IchbinVol.5407:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you.

Would you still do the dungeons, if they gave you nothing?

Yes. I’d do dungeons for the tokens. In fact, that has been the only reason that I have done them.

Same here, but how many others would have the same mindset? Gl finding a party…

Any evidence that it will be difficult to find a party?

some dungeons are already deserted like caudecus manor you’re out of luck if under 80 as the most i see is like 1 party bout every 6 hours asking for : 80s experienced berserker only.

It’s always been like that. Have you tried forming a party around reset? Some of the least popular dungeons have a better chance of getting done around that time.

still means you ll have to do dungeons at specific times if you want to party up and this is before the nerf .

Which has nothing to do with the expansion.

IchbinVol.5407:

All this seems like a bad idea, and just an excuse to make veterans work more for what they’ve already done.

You cannot work more for what you’ve already done… You’ve already done it.

If anything the heavier Hero points in HoT is a boon to veterans because they can spend more time in HoT with alts.

• The new map reward system will incentivise players into old maps for guaranteed access to harder to get mats (lodestones, eyes etc).
• Tyria Masteries (Fractal, for example).
• 1st Gen precursor and crafting.
• Fractals
• Dungeons
• Guild Missions
• Holiday events

As for the dungeon nerf, my understanding is that the rewards were being spread out between dungeons, fractals and the new content, as opposed to just raising them rewards in order ro prevent too much inflation.

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you and you’re making the mistake assuming that the only reason they could be making those changes is to get more people to play the expansion areas. There are more possible reasons than just that.

If I want to play the elite specializations they are forcing me. The entire world completion gives 200 points, you need 400 to unlock elite specialization (the only place to get the rest is new zone or wvw for months).

Plus the question of would you do dungeons if they gave you nothing??!?

Kronos.2560:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you and you’re making the mistake assuming that the only reason they could be making those changes is to get more people to play the expansion areas. There are more possible reasons than just that.

If I want to play the elite specializations they are forcing me. The entire world completion gives 200 points, you need 400 to unlock elite specialization (the only place to get the rest is new zone or wvw for months).

Plus the question of would you do dungeons if they gave you nothing??!?

And if they had made it so that you had to complete a quest to unlock the specializations? Heaven forbid that people have to play a little bit of the expansion to unlock things.

No. I would not do dungeons if they gave me nothing. Really not an issue as dubgeons will still give rewards to players after the expansion goes live. The only things being reduced are the gold rewards.

Healix.5819:

By completing the existing world, you will be 50% of the way through every time they add a new elite specialization. Considering these specialization include other stuff, you’d likely be able to fully unlock the necessities about 25% of the way through the expansion. That’s a huge difference if you actually wanted to use it.

Why scour Tyria for 1 pt each? Because the world will always be there and there’s still map completion and additional rewards. Eventually you’ll have nothing better to do, unless you’re one of those people.

That’s right all you have to do is get world competition (all 218 hero points from core maps) for all your alts. No big deal. What else where you wanting to do in game with those 30-50 hours of play? Something new and exciting? Or poor little kitten, you should know all MMOs force you to repeat content and grind. Sure in 2012 there was that manifesto video where ArenaNet talked up the tenets of their philosophy on grind and making an MMO even those with college degrees to earn and day jobs could play casually and still enjoy. But it’s 2015 and most of those people have left it seems. What’s left are a core group seemingly hell bent on shifting the game back to a more traditional MMO paradigm which of course means baking in a lot of grind to compensate for poor or lack of design. That is of course just my perspective, but the evidence is there.

What’s more…

And if you have had a character since 2012 launch and you happened to have spent most of your hero points crafting before ArenaNet changed Spirit Shards to a currency and you’ve done most hero challenges and have few hero points well then you’re just SOL. Consider that your GW2 veteran tax. Not to worry however, there are 40 hero challenges worth 10 points each in HoT spread out over it’s three maps that’s about 13 per map of course you won’t be able to get to many of those until you’ve leveled up masteries because they will be blocked so mastery required. So by time you make it half way though HoT content you can look forward to finally being able to unlock your Elite Spec and enjoy the second half of HoT as whatever your elite is. We won’t be seeing too many Heralds anytime soon.

Simple fix

1. Remove the ridiculous restriction on characters having to have unlocked all core specializations before being able to put hero points into the elites Make it so they have to have unlocked 3 out of the 5 trait lines or something, but most of us aren’t using all our specializations. That’s why they are specializations so we can pick and choose which ones we wanted. To force a player to have all of these unlocked makes no sense except for the purpose of the time sink it imposes to make a player go after the hero challenges. Horrible design.

2. Provide a gem store canister item that gives the player a hero challenge or teleports them to the nearest hero challenge and gives them x amount of time to finish it before teleporting them back. Something novel like that which players who are time strapped (or just the intelligent players who despise grind and have more important life things to do…. Hello ANet, we aren’t all going after the kitten legendaries. We don’t all have world competition). The requirements they are putting on elite specs goes against the original vision of the game in regard to making it accessible to more casual players. I guess they discovered more casual players aren’t bringing in the revenue so kitten them. The instant canisters would give those with time constraints the ability to spend real money on obtaining the Elite Specs. Although it’s expensive a player can do that now with Legendaries even. It makes much less sense to lock off Elite Specializations to the more casual types since the Elite Specs are a core functional part of what makes HoT new and exciting. A legendary isn’t core to the game, a unique skin or mod isn’t core to the game, it’s a reward you work for. The Elite Specs themselves are functional.

Kronos.2560:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you and you’re making the mistake assuming that the only reason they could be making those changes is to get more people to play the expansion areas. There are more possible reasons than just that.

If I want to play the elite specializations they are forcing me. The entire world completion gives 200 points, you need 400 to unlock elite specialization (the only place to get the rest is new zone or wvw for months).

Plus the question of would you do dungeons if they gave you nothing??!?

We don’t actually know how many points it costs to just get traits and skills. For all we know 200 could be enough to unlock the traits and some of the skills.

As for the ‘would you play if dungeons giving nothing’, they’ll still be giving rewards, so there’s no reason to ask that.

The hero pts are not obsolete. They are hero points that do not require masteries. Of course there will be hero points like that in the jungle but enough to reach your character to 300~400 HP? I doubt it.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Kronos.2560:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you and you’re making the mistake assuming that the only reason they could be making those changes is to get more people to play the expansion areas. There are more possible reasons than just that.

If I want to play the elite specializations they are forcing me. The entire world completion gives 200 points, you need 400 to unlock elite specialization (the only place to get the rest is new zone or wvw for months).

Plus the question of would you do dungeons if they gave you nothing??!?

We don’t actually know how many points it costs to just get traits and skills. For all we know 200 could be enough to unlock the traits and some of the skills.

To unlock all the skills traits you need more then 200.

ColinJohanson.2394:

It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

They are not removing wvw rewards, they changed the 250 one you get to a 20 miniute booster of sort.

TJgalon.5012:

They are not removing wvw rewards, they changed the 250 one you get to a 20 miniute booster of sort.

Right and we know how useful boosters are… lmao. I rather just get my 250 WXP.

OP assumes players have to earn hero points in the most efficient way. Buy why?

If you believe that there will be more elite specs coming after HoT, there will more reasons to complete hero points in the core games.

Doug Whisper.2465:

OP assumes players have to earn hero points in the most efficient way. Buy why?

He has all rights to assume players have to get them in the most efficient way. If clearing the entire old world map only gives 200 and you need 400.. Why wouldn’t you assume that? It would essentially be the only way to actually unlock elite specs…

Umm… I am going to play in Tyria to master my Masteries and in the same time get some hero points for my alts. …. … .. But first I am going to play my ‘Been there done that’ main in maguuma ofc.

It’s a not-so-subtle tap on the shoulder to sell more copies of HoT.

Scour Tyria if you wish to do, 10hp events should only be for those speed leveling, not anyone interested in immersing themselves in the world.

Now both kinds of players have an outlet to level.

You have to level to 80 to get in to the jungle anyway.

By which point you will have no use for hero points except to progress elite specs.

There’s nothing preventing you from not playing the content you specifically powerlevelled to gain access to.

Core hero points, since the latest change to them, were not useful for anything but world completion anyway. Now they give you a little head start on your elite specs if you pick them up while leveling.

They weren’t really supposed to replace the need to do challenges in the new maps, and were never really designed for that purpose.

PopeUrban.2578:

You have to level to 80 to get in to the jungle anyway.

By which point you will have no use for hero points except to progress elite specs.

There’s nothing preventing you from not playing the content you specifically powerlevelled to gain access to.

Core hero points, since the latest change to them, were not useful for anything but world completion anyway. Now they give you a little head start on your elite specs if you pick them up while leveling.

They weren’t really supposed to replace the need to do challenges in the new maps, and were never really designed for that purpose.

also am, we know that 60 is needed for elite skill starting. Atm unsure what that gets us, or how much after that, but 60 normal hp while leveling in PvE areas is pretty easy, and when you go to the jungle, the +10 will help speed you ahead too.

Rezzet.3614:

and yes they ve solely focused on this expansion , they even stated there wont be new content for the core game for a while as they ll keep focused on making living story content for the expansion .

Making living story content for the expansion, does not mean living story won’t revisit Central Tyria. A lot of central tyria relates to the expansion, Pale Tree, Queen Jennah, etc.

Tim.6450:

The hero pts are not obsolete. They are hero points that do not require masteries. Of course there will be hero points like that in the jungle but enough to reach your character to 300~400 HP? I doubt it.

Colin confirmed there would be but doing the HP in Central Tyria will allow you to unlock your elite spec sooner.

reapex.8546:

Tim.6450:

The hero pts are not obsolete. They are hero points that do not require masteries. Of course there will be hero points like that in the jungle but enough to reach your character to 300~400 HP? I doubt it.

Colin confirmed there would be but doing the HP in Central Tyria will allow you to unlock your elite spec sooner.

If I recall correctly he only said that there are at least 40 hero challenges he didn’t say how many are gated behind masteries.

Because the majority of hero points currently are beyond easy to get. The reward generally should match the content.

I have 17 lv. 80 toons, on which I have spent many gems for skins. I want to play all of them. I’m willing to do all of the HoT content once… or twice, maybe. But not 17 times. I play mostly WvW, and it will take me forever to get all the elites there, while a PvE player has an absolutely huge head start.

IchbinVol.5407:

I’m noticing that Anet is running into the same problem, all MMO devs do. With every new expansion, comes the inevitable obsoletion of former content.

Does this really surprise you? People called out power creep happening with HoT from a long time ago. And yes, this constitutes as horizontal progressions’ power creep – where it’s simpler to do newer stuff because you get more out of it for less work.

They did this with GW1 too. Play through Prophecies for 25 missions, and 20 of them you’re not yet maxed level. Play through Factions for 13 missions, and for 3 of them you’re not yet maxed level (if that). Play through Nightfall for 20 missions, and 3 of them you’re not yet maxed level and you have heroes (aka customizeable henchmen) to aid you. Play through Eye of the North for powerful PvE skills.

Every GW1 game added something new and more powerful. Factions added faster leveling – changing quest experience rewards from 100/500 commonly seen in Prophecies to 1,000/5,000 commonly seen in Factions (which was toned down a tad with NF and EotN, mind). Nightfall added the addition of heroes which made everything before hand completely trivial to solo. Eye of the North added not only 100 PvE skills to it, but 10-20 PvE skills to Factions and Nightfall too, which made the game so trivial that they had to limit the number of PvE skills you could take with you.

Heart of Thorns is no different with elite specializations, masteries, and other things we’re getting. The only difference is that there’s more work involved.

Work that, ironically enough, is the exact same system as the NPE. Account and character based experience progression unlocks features thus allowing you to do more things in past areas (like “unlocking hero challenges at level 11” despite easily passing several before hitting level 5).

Rezzet.3614:

Vayne.8563:

Or it will encourage more people who bought the base game to buy the expansion because it is easier. Frankly there’ll be plenty of incentive to go back to old areas anyway.

if they truly wanted this they wouldnt had bundled the core game to the expansion to forcefully sell it for 50$+ and would ve offered the expansion individually for those with the core game

i am a developer and work on net working as well and i know there is absolutely no limitations to having both options heck many older games have been doing it before even the mmorpg that must not be mentioned has done it .

You may know networking but you know nothing about marketing.

Of course they are going to provide a better way to unlock Elite Specializations in the expansion maps… They have to. How many people have 100% map completion and spent most if not all their excess hero points on crafting? (Honestly, probably not a lot but you get my point and there are a few who’ve complained that they have used up hundreds of hero points in crafting, etc. and will be forced to farm the new Hero Point challenges).

You are choosing to invalidate the old content. On your newer characters you choose whether or not to do map completion or hunt down Hero Points. You choose to level through Tomes of Knowledge or other power leveling methods which would cause you to skip the dozens of maps you would otherwise play through in the journey to level 80. That stuff is still there, it still has uses… they have redesigned features of the game that have been there since launch that incentivize players to go back to vanilla zones they would not otherwise have returned to or maybe even skipped the first time through.

If anything they are providing new reasons to revisit old content. Just because it looks like it will be more efficient to unlock Elite Specializations in the new maps (it might very well be more difficult but that is doubtful) that does not invalidate the old maps and the old Hero Point challenges… especially when so many new reasons are being added for you to revisit old areas of the game.

I find the whole sequence of events interesting. Originally to unlock all of a classes abilities under the new system, a bunch of hero points were going to be required. It was… 75 I think? Maybe 80. I can’t remember. Anyway, after players complained that to get all their options they needed to on every one of their alts they would have to play for weeks to get all those points, it was changed. That way, no hero points were needed to unlock anything. Just unlock sooner.

This, of course, was amidst the whispers of elite specializations. Or after they were announced. Dates aren’t my thing. Anyway, the conclusion that I (and many others) came to is that the hero points in the map would be needed to unlock the elite specializations. Because, as of now, they serve no purpose other than busywork. Before the introduction of spirit shards, skill points were a currency that could be traded, so the skill points on the map still had a function.

What we learned a few days ago is that not only are the current hero points just busywork, but they were useless by design. It wasn’t an accident. The original value was 175 skill points for the elite spec. The devs decided that, on top of raids and masteries and guild halls and fractals and future additional content, a player needed more in-game progression, and made it so you had to get it on the new map. So they intentionally made it necessary, and then made a workaround for WvW (a workaround that shouldn’t have been necessary in the first place) to deal with the problems it created. In essence, they changed it so players wouldn’t have to get a bunch of hero points to get stuff on their alts, then made the exact same mistake they just corrected 5 months ago.

Why did they change it so e-specs are something you had to work for only after HoT went live? Good question. How are they going to handle future elite specs when the entirety of map completion only buys 1.5 of them? Another good question. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that, in a year after HoT we get another expansion pack where the new map awards 100 hero points per achievement, and the new elite spec costs 4000.