Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen on countless sites that GW2 in on the top mostp layed MMOs out there, mostly in second or third place.

I also noticed a lot of the controversy caused by the expansion — more related about its content, features, perfomance and price.

I’m on a weak laptop, but I manage to run GW2 with average 25-30 fps in all of Tyria. Sadly my fps are below 10 in HoT, but I manage to play it if I select the lowest graphical setup available.

I don’t really like the new maps. They’re really hard and I feel lost. I prefer to play by myself and when I bring a friend we just rush it. I also have died a lot.

There are way too many threads complaining about GW2: HoT. Many people have left because of the expansion and another handful of players avoid the expansion like the plague. I also heard that the HoT sales were dreadful. Is this true?

I’ve never seen as much people on map as now, maybe the people playing GW2 are too busy playing it to complain on the forum?

Akijo.7395:

I’ve never seen as much people on map as now, maybe the people playing GW2 are too busy playing it to complain on the forum?

It’s just what I heard. No need for smartback comments.

I’m just curious because I only started GW2 in September or late August. Not sure if it was bigger before or not.

The groups that are having issues with Hot are wvwer and some casual players. Some people think HoT is to difficult to solo some content and other dislike the lack of content replaced with a grind for map currencies. Wvwer was hoping for something that would revive it.

The difficult of HoT is fine for me just adapt a little bit until you get use to your classes defensive trait lines. The lack of overall content was disappointing. Still Wvwer have good reason to be upset with stale content.

People who complain are more vocal about it than those who like the game.
The answer depends on who’s answering it, someone who dislikes it and left can tell you that they + their guild + all of their friend’s guilds + everyone that all of their friend’s guildmates knew left because of HoT, the game’s dead, noone’s playing.
On the other side people who enjoy it will can tell you maps are full now, there’re more overflows, lfg is more crowded, etc. and the games has never had more people.
All we know is that HoT did well enough for Anet to greenlight another expansion, that alone tells us it didn’t flop, it was successful in Anet’s eyes therefore the amount of new people + remaining vets must outnumber or at least be somewhat equal to the amount that left.

I am afraid that I must agree with Random Wolf on this thread. I have not only heard of people leaving the game because of HOT, I have known several players who did. These were not fly by night players either, they were good solid players better than I. I do not think that the only problem with the game exists withing WVW, but also PVE. I know that the rallying cry for “more challenging content,” was used to try to entice the elite player base into staying. There were other more casual player who are okay with it, but for a larger portion of the player base the new PVE content has been a real disappointment. It seems that they are doing everything they can to take any enjoyment that Casual players might be able to get from the game. I for one do not like the idea of going into an area, and being forced to play a certain way. When I go into the elitist new maps that represent Maguma, I find myself having to run when I want to fight because the enemies are so massively overpowered that most of the time if I get in a fight with anything over two enemies I am doomed. Now most will respond with change your build, adapt and change you play style, which I have done, but I still spend way too much time dead for my liking. So what does Anet do I ask? They nerf a lot of our abilities and force us to change everything up again, not because they are attempting to fix the massive in balance of power in PVE, but to fix PVP for the new league systems. Did they perchance nerf the OP constitutions of the enemy base in Maguma…No. They actually destroyed the playability of the Revenant, the one class that was made for the Maguma maps. I find myself wondering if this is just a post ANET buying out NCsoft situation, because much of the pandering to elite, and elimination of casual player decision came after. I also wonder if they are ever going to seperate the PVE build system enough from the PVP skill system like was done in the first game. That would solve some of the whining coming from the PVP players. WVW is entirely garbage, and that cost the game another large group of players. The maps are too big for the amount of players allowed on, and the content should incorporate more of the mechanics from the Maguma gamer, i.e. gliding being a big one. Still, I hope and pray my patience, and the patience of other casual players like me holds until Anet realizes that it need to calm down some of the enemies on the new maps, because the maps themselves are awesome. It is just too bad that I will not play them often because they are underpopulated most of the time, and as a solo casual player, I refuse to enlist an army of strangers to play a game I used to be able to play solo, or with a few select friends. Also for all those out there who are stupid enough to keep telling people like me to go find another game, keep it up, if enough people leave you too will be finding another game, because without a player base Anet will not continue this game.

Ulion said:

“The difficult of HoT is fine for me just adapt a little bit until you get use to your classes defensive trait lines. The lack of overall content was disappointing. Still Wvwer have good reason to be upset with stale content.”

There is more too it then simply adapting. I tried to adapt and then we get nerfed again. It is time for Anet to nerf themselves some and start to realize that they may have gotten a little crazy with the “new challenging content” rallying cry. The maps in themselves are challenging to find your way around, granted I would have liked to see more of them. Still, the enemy base, numbers and strengths are OP. Also they have an endless list of powers and abilities that the player base does not have. They need to stop nerfind our builds, and start nerfing the OP nature of the enemies.

Raziel.4216:

People who complain are more vocal about it than those who like the game.
The answer depends on who’s answering it, someone who dislikes it and left can tell you that they + their guild + all of their friend’s guilds + everyone that all of their friend’s guildmates knew left because of HoT, the game’s dead, noone’s playing.
On the other side people who enjoy it will can tell you maps are full now, there’re more overflows, lfg is more crowded, etc. and the games has never had more people.
All we know is that HoT did well enough for Anet to greenlight another expansion, that alone tells us it didn’t flop, it was successful in Anet’s eyes therefore the amount of new people + remaining vets must outnumber or at least be somewhat equal to the amount that left.

This pretty much. ^^

You won’t find any proper information here. Every forum of every MMO is riddled with “game is dead” comments. You could even find those on the BnS forum last week while I was looking at a 2000 man queue. Bottom line is, we don’t know, but since a new xpac has already been confirmed I sincerely doubt it’s time to start panicking already.

Akijo.7395:

I’ve never seen as much people on map as now, maybe the people playing GW2 are too busy playing it to complain on the forum?

That has been said enough to qualify as an old saw by now. Unfortunately, the mega-server disguises whether the HOT maps are popular or not. For every experience I have where a Hot map is full of players, I have two where there’s hardly anyone around. Given that HoT is endgame, this certainly raises a question. However, we’ll likely never know unless we see Anet taking action to bolster a failing game. Since we aren’t seeing that at the moment, I cannot conclude that “many people” have left.

However, I saw a post recently claiming that a dev acknowledged in the most recent livestream that HoT was not as popular as they’d hoped. That’s just hearsay at this point, so take it with as large a grain of salt as you can find. However, I’m not sure that dismissing such concerns out of hand is anything different from accepting them — i.e., wishful thinking.

OP, go to the WoW forum or the Archeage Forum or the official forum of ANY triple A MMO and they all look just like this one. I guess they all must be losing players. And if everyone is losing players, then the industry is dead and we should all go home.

But it’s not only like this now, it’s been like this for years. When a game is dead, people aren’t complaining about it anymore. Because it’s dead. Maybe people don’t like to talk ill of the dead.

You don’t know the game well enough to play HoT and that’s okay. You want to just run in and kill stuff with no thought or planning, and if that’s the case, that’s fine. But there’s also a percentage of the player base, a significant percentage that had left the game because it was too easy and some of those people have come back because they find the HoT zones more fun than the core zones.

So what is a company to do. One end of the spectrum finds the game too hard, one end finds it too easy. You try to find a balance. And if the balance doesn’t work, you make adjustments which take time.

People have been saying this game is dying or will be dead since a couple of months after launch, which is 3 years ago. It’s not even close to being in trouble.

It may have lost players, but it’s also gained players.

For your own situation, learn a bit about the game. Don’t just die, figure out WHY you died. If you’re just rushing stuff in HoT, because you just want to kill stuff, you’re obviously doing it wrong. Why? Because you’re not successful.

Are you using food and utilities? Are you using landscape to make your fights easier? Are you prioritizing the right enemies so the really dangerous ones die first? Are you kiting the enemies you need to kite, while killing the enemies you want dead? Are you even using effective weapons or builds for your character?

HoT requires you to step up your game. Some people have been asking for that in the open world for years.

Hot is just too hard. If you think it is hard now just wait till you try the adventure.

Number of threads complaining is not an indicator of how many people are leaving or if they even left.

Regarding few people in the new map, I see almost as many people as when the game came out for the first time. However, they are constantly moving me from server to server…..

I had complaints couple times in several treads about the expansion.

After playing for over a week. I personally now like it. I improve my game play and now I enjoy it.

However, I still complain about the cost……this is not worth it compared to what we paid for the original game.

We are getting way way less. For me to be happy, the price should have been half for people upgrading and the current price for people buying for the first time. That would have been OK and it would have solved most complaints.

Or the actual new map being twice the current size for the same price.

Notice, if I compare the game to the competition. The current value is actually very good. No subcribsion fees and quality game play.

I think when you look at this expansion. While the value is not good (compared to price of original game). You can see, it actually cost a lot for them to make. It’s a very complex and elaborated map.

It’s an evolution of the dry top map.

Vayne.8563:

But there’s also a percentage of the player base, a significant percentage that had left the game because it was too easy and some of those people have come back because they find the HoT zones more fun than the core zones.

How many? Who? Can you support this “significant percentage”? I’ve not seen a single post here of someone saying they left because the game was too easy. If it is a significant amount, we should see it. Where are you getting this data? Can you share it with the rest of us?

RandomWolf.3986:

I’ve seen on countless sites that GW2 in on the top mostp layed MMOs out there, mostly in second or third place.

I also noticed a lot of the controversy caused by the expansion — more related about its content, features, perfomance and price.

I’m on a weak laptop, but I manage to run GW2 with average 25-30 fps in all of Tyria. Sadly my fps are below 10 in HoT, but I manage to play it if I select the lowest graphical setup available.

I don’t really like the new maps. They’re really hard and I feel lost. I prefer to play by myself and when I bring a friend we just rush it. I also have died a lot.

There are way too many threads complaining about GW2: HoT. Many people have left because of the expansion and another handful of players avoid the expansion like the plague. I also heard that the HoT sales were dreadful. Is this true?

Depends, this game has 3 game modes

If you are a WVW focused player then yea, there is literally no point in playing right now, even if you’re on a high tier things are just bleak and getting bleaker, and low tiers ………… just forget it, not even worth logging on.

PVE is still decent and SPVP is somewhere in the middle between the 2.

The new PVE maps are somewhat of a novelty for a while, but once the novelty wears off, you’re left with the extra tedium of the vertical, jumping puzzle like and grind elements. The new WVW map is even worse because too many of those elements hinder PVP on its various scales and in various ways which is the whole point of existance of the game mode.

What a lot of people do not realize, is that longterm WVW players were also PVX players such as myself. We do everything, but remain focused on WVW. These were guild leaders, officers, people who helped others, A LOT, the folks that drove communities to unite, which is what makes an MMO an MMO. And they left, in troves. Only a handful of us remain, and we play less often, MUCH less often.

Okay I just reached level 80 a bit ago I took a break, and came back started the story progression for HoT. Currently on the third chapter part Establishing a foothold to unlock the glider. Okay so I ran around dying grabbed a couple way points, and died twice falling don’t see any task to do. or any thing really except random events that popped up at night time what exactly am I suppose to be doing to unlock the glider?

In Tyria core game I have a lot of the maps complete still some to do, but so far on them I have had a blast but I’m stumped on this HoT game its so far annoying and I don’t know what to do yet…

How come there are no heart task to do like in the other parts of the game? I just see people standing around at the Maguuma’s breach I’m guessing chatting or just as confused as I am. I came to the forums to see if I can get some help so I can progress in the game.

Kaiju chi.3620:

Okay I just reached level 80 a bit ago I took a break, and came back started the story progression for HoT. Currently on the third chapter part Establishing a foothold to unlock the glider. Okay so I ran around dying grabbed a couple way points, and died twice falling don’t see any task to do. or any thing really except random events that popped up at night time what exactly am I suppose to be doing to unlock the glider?

In Tyria core game I have a lot of the maps complete still some to do, but so far on them I have had a blast but I’m stumped on this HoT game its so far annoying and I don’t know what to do yet…

How come there are no heart task to do like in the other parts of the game? I just see people standing around at the Maguuma’s breach I’m guessing chatting or just as confused as I am. I came to the forums to see if I can get some help so I can progress in the game.

Events in HoT are centered around outposts. If you locate the outposts, you’ll find the events. Verdant Brink is divided into day and night cycles. Day cycles have long event chains at each outpost. Night is more about defense of an outpost and building it up by running supply to it.

It takes a while to get used to but once you do it’s quite easy to find events.

Yes. Many people have left since the release of HoT.
It was only natural that not everyone was going to be satisfied with the expansion.
There were some questionable major changes in every game mode that would drive off people (desert borderlands or hours-long meta event chains for example). And mindless grinding for xp, map currencies for skins, collections is not everyone’s cup of tea.
Additionally there are those who left – or almost left – because of all the patches that came since HoT.

Granted, for now you don’t notice this because there has been a healthy influx of new players and thanks to the megaservers, the maps always feel full.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

But there’s also a percentage of the player base, a significant percentage that had left the game because it was too easy and some of those people have come back because they find the HoT zones more fun than the core zones.

How many? Who? Can you support this “significant percentage”? I’ve not seen a single post here of someone saying they left because the game was too easy. If it is a significant amount, we should see it. Where are you getting this data? Can you share it with the rest of us?

Had you read the forums carefully for years, you would have seen plenty of threads and posts complaining that the game was too easy. I certainly did. Some of those posters did threaten to leave, just like some are threatening to leave because of HoT. I’d link some, but forum search is borked and I’m not going to scroll through 2000 pages of the General Discussion board.

As to significance… whether those numbers are statistically significant is anyone’s guess. However, significance in this case is best measured via results. It seems to me that Anet would be in a better position to gauge the significance of that demographic. Anet based the design for the their first expansion on the premise that PvE combat needed to become more challenging. Thus, that demographic was significant enough to influence ANet design.

It didn’t start there, though. Increased challenge in PvE has been a thing since shortly after launch. Karka, Molten Alliance and the Aetherblades were all harder than launch armies, as were LS S2 Mordremoth minions. In addition, ANet revamped the Risen and Krait, increasing the challenge of those armies to the point where there were some complaints about them being too hard. So, tell me, would Anet consistently ramp things up over more than two years of development if they did not believe that the launch game was too easy?

That’s not to say that there is not a significant demographic that liked the core mobs better. ANet often seems to rely on metrics to “prove” their hypotheses about what players like. Could it be that most players were utilizing content in harder areas (e.g., SW) because that’s where the better rewards are, leading Anet to conclude that an overwhelming majority wanted more challenge, when at least some of them really wanted rewards? I think that’s certainly possible. The under-utilization of Southsun Cove — which has little in the way of rewards — also suggests that rewards are a major concern to many.

In the end, I think that Vayne’s comments are as valid as the many comments that cite complaints about HoT. Is he right? Are the HoT detractors? I doubt even ANet knows for sure.

Actually DaShi has a point, or would have, if in fact he didn’t completely misunderstand me. There’s a huge difference between me making a post stating definitively that 50% of the people this or 20% of the people that, and me replying to a post where someone else has made that definitive statement.

In my mind the conversation goes more like this.

Anet is catering to 10% of the player base. That’s the statement. I don’t agree necessarily but then I didn’t make the statement. I come back at that statement with what I believe the percentage is, but I try to phrase it in ways that’s not absolute. I think, I believe, I’d guess. This is showing that I don’t really have the numbers either, but my perception is different than yours. By giving my opinion on what those numbers are in my mind I’m refuting the numbers given.

I don’t generally start posts about numbers by being specific, unless I have access to that data.

In my opinion DaShi feels that I’m being hypocritical by giving people a taste of their own medicine. He might even be right, for all I know. However, saying that no one has left this game because it was too easy, when there are several people in my guild who left for that very reason over the years (and I run a very casual guild), or saying on one has complained about how easy the game is, that’s simply disingenuous. There have been quite a few of those posts.

They come out as people being “bored” or complaining about spamming 1, but those complaints have been around forever.

In the interest of peace, of the forums, however, I’ve decided not to directly reply to certain people who I believe are only trying to start some sort of fight.

In the firsts HoT beta tests, the mobs was like normal tyria, the beta testers become furious, and complaints were almost unanimous. if Anet someday wanted the players left the HoT, all they need do is just leaving everything easy as Central Tyria.

i have played HoT since lauch. And now has more players than the beginning, test put on LFG “DS Taxi” and see how many people, they will appear in milliseconds.

I stopped a little time with the HoT, and went back to doing only Central Tyria to complete collections and masteries.

About rewards, there is a belief that Silverwastes is still the top when in fact, a complete round of Silverwastes run, can not compete in terms of rewards with a complete round of Dragon Stand or Auric Basin. Just do the test, run the theses events, sell all materials and savages, and check how much gold u get.

Akijo.7395:

I’ve never seen as much people on map as now, maybe the people playing GW2 are too busy playing it to complain on the forum?

As the basic marketing suggests, for every vocally complaining user, x amount of users are leaving the product silently. In other words, the more threads of complains in forums, the less users in game.

However, with the expansion, Anet took a huge change of direction and some of those changes were not received well by veteran players (me including). So, while the change of direction may force some of the older player out, it may attract more new players as well. It is yet to be seen how the population balances out in the long run.

Been in Queensdale last night. Ran around for about 20mins. Saw 3 players.
A year ago around the same time I would’ve seen around 20-30 players.
Might’ve been a new map, might have not.

When HoT came out I’ve played GW2 the most in my entire 3y, having great fun
Atm I’m finishing off the achievements left while making, after Astralaria, my HOPE, without rush now!

Gw2 has never been this boring to me. HoT didn’t really add any difficulty/complexity to the game, it’s quite the opposite. Elite are too powerful, classes have lost their identity, and except alacrity, they have now access to everything. Thank you HoT for the AoE CC spam fest too.
I could care less of HoT new maps, I never go there. Not a fan of hours long metas. I still see people here and there, world bosses are still pretty popular, my flist didn’t really change, and my guild still have more or less the same active players. The big difference now is that we don’t do things together anymore. Exit wvw roaming.

GW2 combat system was unique, exciting, and rewarding. Now even a fresh player can easily win with any fotm broken elite. And I blame raids for this. Power creep, cc creep, boon farting creep to please 5% of the population. Such a catastrophic idea for a pvp oriented combat system.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t generally start posts about numbers by being specific, unless I have access to that data.

In my opinion DaShi feels that I’m being hypocritical by giving people a taste of their own medicine. He might even be right, for all I know. However, saying that no one has left this game because it was too easy, when there are several people in my guild who left for that very reason over the years (and I run a very casual guild), or saying on one has complained about how easy the game is, that’s simply disingenuous. There have been quite a few of those posts.

Um…no. You specifically said significant. That means you should have a good idea how many there are. If you want to respond to someone saying that no one left the game because it was too easy, then, using your rules, you should point out that you believe it is unlikely because there were several posts where people complained about the game being too easy. I understand that you think you are fighting hyperbole, but I suggest you don’t use it yourself if you want to maintain credibility.

In addition, I pointed yesterday at least two cases where you used specific numbers that you couldn’t back up. I only highlighted those cases because you did it immediately after complaining to someone else that they couldn’t back up their numbers. So don’t tell us one thing and do another.

CindyKa.6137:

@DaShi, I don’t have any idea who Vayne is. Never spoke to or commented to them. I know they don’t need anyone fighting their battles. And I’m not trying to do that. But good grief hun what is your obsession with Vayne. I swear Vayne couldn’t sneeze without you wanting him/her to “prove” how many drops of saliva was in that sneeze and demand proof the speed of the sneeze. In short you are just obsessed. Anyway stop telling people to prove it prove it prove it. No one here is your mommy do your on research.

In Vayne’s own words: “Taste of your own medicine.” I just do it with out compromising my integrity. If people want an honest discussion of the game, that’s great. I support that. Vayne has not been having honest discussions. He has one set of rules for those he disagrees with and none for those he does and himself. This does not create honest discussions of the game. When someone literally say, “he focus has been more towards the top 10% players” and you follow with “You’re also pulling numbers out of thin air. I think it’s closer to the bottom 10 or 15% feel disenfranchised” then you are not having an honest discussion.

So the next time Vayne questions someone’s numbers, I fully expect you to step up and tell him to look it up for himself. I’ll certainly appreciate that.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t generally start posts about numbers by being specific, unless I have access to that data.

In my opinion DaShi feels that I’m being hypocritical by giving people a taste of their own medicine. He might even be right, for all I know. However, saying that no one has left this game because it was too easy, when there are several people in my guild who left for that very reason over the years (and I run a very casual guild), or saying on one has complained about how easy the game is, that’s simply disingenuous. There have been quite a few of those posts.

Um…no. You specifically said significant. That means you should have a good idea how many there are. If you want to respond to someone saying that no one left the game because it was too easy, then, using your rules, you should point out that you believe it is unlikely because there were several posts where people complained about the game being too easy. I understand that you think you are fighting hyperbole, but I suggest you don’t use it yourself if you want to maintain credibility.

In addition, I pointed yesterday at least two cases where you used specific numbers that you couldn’t back up. I only highlighted those cases because you did it immediately after complaining to someone else that they couldn’t back up their numbers. So don’t tell us one thing and do another.

I did say significant. If I know a handful of people from a single casual guild that stopped playing do to lack of challenge, I’m positive that the number of people that got bored was significant. There have been a significant number of posts about people being bored with the open world as well.

Now, the thing with the word significant is that it means this:

.
sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention; noteworthy.

Since it’s been brought up many times, it’s worthy of attention. That’s just logical. Other people seem to remember it being brought up. It’s really funny that you don’t.

Off topic, I find it entertaining that other people have started noticing you dogging my posts as well. Several people have contacted me over it.

I respond to posts where people make assertions and often I mimic their behavior, but yes, I believe the word significant was the right word to use. It doesn’t have to me a huge amount, but it does have to mean something worth taking note of.

I’m certainly within my rights to use that word.

Vayne.8563:

I did say significant. If I know a handful of people from a single casual guild that stopped playing do to lack of challenge, I’m positive that the number of people that got bored was significant. There have been a significant number of posts about people being bored with the open world as well.

Now, the thing with the word significant is that it means this:

.
sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention; noteworthy.

Since it’s been brought up many times, it’s worthy of attention. That’s just logical. Other people seem to remember it being brought up. It’s really funny that you don’t.

Off topic, I find it entertaining that other people have started noticing you dogging my posts as well. Several people have contacted me over it.

I respond to posts where people make assertions and often I mimic their behavior, but yes, I believe the word significant was the right word to use. It doesn’t have to me a huge amount, but it does have to mean something worth taking note of.

I’m certainly within my rights to use that word.

But if you just mimic their behavior, that makes you no better than them. And it doesn’t come across as mimicking. It comes across as arrogant hypocrisy. I do realize that that isn’t your intention, but it is very disrespectful to the community that is frustrated with the game, whether those frustrations are warranted or not. I’m not asking you to stop correcting them or challenging their positions. I’m just asking that you do so in a respectable manner. And, I’m just asking. You’re free to do what you want. But understand, these people are not happy and using tactics like mimicking aren’t going to make them, this game, or this community look any more appealing. This is the worst way to deal with complaints about the game.

Also, speaking of dogging, maybe let a few complaints go by every now and then. Some people just want to vent.

Manthas.6234:

Akijo.7395:

I’ve never seen as much people on map as now, maybe the people playing GW2 are too busy playing it to complain on the forum?

As the basic marketing suggests, for every vocally complaining user, x amount of users are leaving the product silently. In other words, the more threads of complains in forums, the less users in game.

However, with the expansion, Anet took a huge change of direction and some of those changes were not received well by veteran players (me including). So, while the change of direction may force some of the older player out, it may attract more new players as well. It is yet to be seen how the population balances out in the long run.

Thank you for for this logical response regarding a subject driven by anecdotal evidence and often proclamations about the subject where the data is simply unknown.

The only player metric we do have since HoT is that WvW populations are down by significant margins.

Vayne.8563:

And no one on this forum knows anyway how many people stayed, left or came back, which is why I keep saying in six months we’ll have a better idea of the health of the game.

This I wholeheartedly agree with you on.

I left as well as all my other friends. We are all enjoying d3 at the moment. This is the first time in a long time I’ve been to these forums and just decided hey why not this morning. I have had exactly 4 people ask me about hot and I tell them what I think and I know 4 people who have not purchased it.

Im pretty bored atm. HOT is all about grinding the new maps again and again and again to finish millions of collections. Adventures are incredibley unbalanced and being forced to do them is a terrible design decision. Masteries feels like a fillers most of the time. Gliding is probably the only good mastery. And on top of that the lack of story makes it really worse.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t generally start posts about numbers by being specific, unless I have access to that data.

In my opinion DaShi feels that I’m being hypocritical by giving people a taste of their own medicine. He might even be right, for all I know. However, saying that no one has left this game because it was too easy, when there are several people in my guild who left for that very reason over the years (and I run a very casual guild), or saying on one has complained about how easy the game is, that’s simply disingenuous. There have been quite a few of those posts.

Um…no. You specifically said significant. That means you should have a good idea how many there are. If you want to respond to someone saying that no one left the game because it was too easy, then, using your rules, you should point out that you believe it is unlikely because there were several posts where people complained about the game being too easy. I understand that you think you are fighting hyperbole, but I suggest you don’t use it yourself if you want to maintain credibility.

In addition, I pointed yesterday at least two cases where you used specific numbers that you couldn’t back up. I only highlighted those cases because you did it immediately after complaining to someone else that they couldn’t back up their numbers. So don’t tell us one thing and do another.

Of course he said significant. It was a sufficiently large enough sample, apparently, to influence the design decisions of the developers. That is, by definition, significant.

When HoT first came out, it got my guild up to 80-100 people a night for the first time in almost three years. It lasted like a week before it was down to 40, then another three weeks down to about 20. Now it’s down to 4-8. And I’m not talking about people representing the guild, just members that are logged in.

This was just an all around terribly designed expansion, that, even if it were better designed, did not have sufficient content to justify it’s purchase price. In fact, when you take in to account the amount of ‘expansion features’ that the developers stated they were planning to add to the base game before an expansion was ever released, it basically has no features at all save specializations and gliding.

RandomWolf.3986:

Akijo.7395:

I’ve never seen as much people on map as now, maybe the people playing GW2 are too busy playing it to complain on the forum?

It’s just what I heard. No need for smartback comments.

I’m just curious because I only started GW2 in September or late August. Not sure if it was bigger before or not.

Ignore the sassy salty comments that doesn’t add constructive value :P
Also, my guild is pretty empty chat-wise. A lot of people left because it’s the beginning of the school year, so good for them for placing school first! When summer comes, I expect a good amount of people to come back.

Reason #2 for lack of people from my usually-active guild is the game Blade & Soul. Once they get bored of that game I also expect them to come back :P

Once Black Desert comes out, I’m expecting more people to go there, but I think GW2 is a game that people at least come back once in a while. But yea, as far as I’ve noticed, there’s been a severe decrease in players.

Conncept.7638:

When HoT first came out, it got my guild up to 80-100 people a night for the first time in almost three years. It lasted like a week before it was down to 40, then another three weeks down to about 20. Now it’s down to 4-8. And I’m not talking about people representing the guild, just members that are logged in.

This was just an all around terribly designed expansion, that, even if it were better designed, did not have sufficient content to justify it’s purchase price. In fact, when you take in to account the amount of ‘expansion features’ that the developers stated they were planning to add to the base game before an expansion was ever released, it basically has no features at all save specializations and gliding.

Yeap. But they’ll all come back one day … when Anet stops this 2-hour-map streak they’re on. It’s not bad with 0 bugs. With the huge amount of bugging out with D/C issues, it’s terrible.

Shortly after HoT launch they were proudly speaking about high numbers of people playing. Last big patch they introduced a system to encourage people to log in at least once per month. Draw the conclusion yourself.

Astralporing.1957:

Shortly after HoT launch they were proudly speaking about high numbers of people playing. Last big patch they introduced a system to encourage people to log in at least once per month. Draw the conclusion yourself.

That’s like adding 1 plus 1 and getting 55. If you really think someone logging in once a month has any affect on demographics, I don’t really know what to say.

More likely the system was already in process for a while and it just got implemented. The odds of them rushing that out just to get people in once a month is ludicrous.

Vayne.8563:

That’s like adding 1 plus 1 and getting 55. If you really think someone logging in once a month has any affect on demographics, I don’t really know what to say.

Not demographics, metrics. It affects metrics when the only reported numbers we’ve seen from ANet (via an article in Fortune) were of monthly logins.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

That’s like adding 1 plus 1 and getting 55. If you really think someone logging in once a month has any affect on demographics, I don’t really know what to say.

Not demographics, metrics. It affects metrics when the only reported numbers we’ve seen from ANet (via an article in Fortune) were of monthly logins.

Right, but still, someone logging in once a month to get a beer to eventually get an ascended back piece?

Who that doesn’t already log in once a month is going to bother logging in once a month just for the brew of the month club. It doesn’t make sense.

So I doubt this was implemented primarily to get people to log in once a month. More likely it was an easy reward for casual players, because many of them have been frustrated lately.

The honest answer… we don’t know how HoT really did and we don’t know how GW2 is really doing at the moment. The last financial report was on Nov. 4th for third quarter 2015, which probably had some HoT pre-sales on it (and incidentally GW2 was doing good at that point) but it by no means shows the whole picture and we won’t know more until the 4th quarter 2015 report comes out.

As far as how many people are actually playing or not currently… it’s all anecdotal.

Arlee.7038:

The honest answer… we don’t know how HoT really did and we don’t know how GW2 is really doing at the moment. The last financial report was on Nov. 4th for third quarter 2015, which probably had some HoT pre-sales on it (and incidentally GW2 was doing good at that point) but it by no means shows the whole picture and we won’t know more until the 4th quarter 2015 report comes out.

As far as how many people are actually playing or not currently… it’s all anecdotal.

AFAIK HoT presales were not included on that report. Almost every MMO only actually uses the presales on the quarter it actually releases. I read something about this a while back, but can’t remember where.

Vayne.8563:

Arlee.7038:

The honest answer… we don’t know how HoT really did and we don’t know how GW2 is really doing at the moment. The last financial report was on Nov. 4th for third quarter 2015, which probably had some HoT pre-sales on it (and incidentally GW2 was doing good at that point) but it by no means shows the whole picture and we won’t know more until the 4th quarter 2015 report comes out.

As far as how many people are actually playing or not currently… it’s all anecdotal.

AFAIK HoT presales were not included on that report. Almost every MMO only actually uses the presales on the quarter it actually releases. I read something about this a while back, but can’t remember where.

Yea I don’t know for sure if they were or not, the report doesn’t say. The dates for the quarter though means some of them could have been included in the figures. No way to know for sure though.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Could it be that most players were utilizing content in harder areas (e.g., SW) because that’s where the better rewards are, leading Anet to conclude that an overwhelming majority wanted more challenge, when at least some of them really wanted rewards? I think that’s certainly possible.

Dang. This just makes too much kitten sense.

And it could also explain why Anet continued with what I think of as “lather, rinse, repeat” meta-centeric map designs in the HoT maps. “Since people are playing SW, let’s replicate the design! – on steroids!”

Even though I knew that Silverwastes had good loot, I never went there (I did’t even have map completion of DT or SW when HoT was released) because I just hated the event structure. So anti-RPG….

The reasons I left are pretty numerous and has actually little to do with how hard the content is. Mostly it just boils down to the game has gotten stale and the over focus on new features is a pretty big cause of that. I mean, it’s great we have gliding in Tamriel and new squad UIs and all, but it’s new features to play content I have already gotten bored with.

In no specific order…

- WvW is stale.

- Balance in sPvP is broken and it’s just getting worse with every balance patch. The introduction of all these new elite specs and classes into a system with an abundance of broken skills just made everything worse. Removal of Celestial Amulet put a nail in the coffin of my favorite class, elementalist.

- The little content there is isn’t designed for people with flexible or casual schedules. HoT Meta Maps operate on a pretty long fixed cycle and you have to log in at certain times to get into a map if you want to play. Outside of those specific times, LFG will be dead except for mostly SW maps, which is the content I have exhausted myself out for like months. The same applies to raids. No new dungeons or fractals that you just log on and get a group for.

- Too little content. You do it all in a couple of weeks and then it becomes a grind for currency.

- Currency grinds. I actually like currency grinds; I love Diablo 3 which nothing but a big grind, but the grind results in satisfying rewards that grant your character more power to influence the world. It’s not the case at all in GW2; there is just very little reason to do it. What do you get out of it? Cosmetic pieces that don’t rival the ones in the gem store, a couple of pets, access to different stat prefixes? The end result is the same; my character’s ability to influence the actual world is left unchanged. The only marginal impact would be from the new stat prefixs, which punish certain builds for no real reason other than, because Anet is running out of ways to provide rewards in a game with horizontal progression.

- The big ticket items that present a higher goal in the form of legendaries are huge time sinks with zero reward until the very end. The end result is a purely cosmetic item that doesn’t give you any ability to influence the world of GW2. You do one and its cool and feels great, but its so lackluster, there is little motivation to do another. It’s not like a legendary in other RPGs where it’s acquisition gives you the ability to influence the world in ways you could not before.

- Mastery content, the new form of PvE “progression” is circular. You complete masteries to gain new environmental abilities that allow you to access new areas that either give you more mastery points to spend on masteries or access to more loot that is exactly the same as loot retreived in other areas. There just seems to be no real unique reward to it; no special item that you can only obtain with certain masteries, outside of the purely cosmetic legendary items.

- New precursor system wasn’t really the fun “treasure hunt” that was promised to us. Only a small fraction of the journey is actually that; the rest is a huge gold and time sink. That really kittened me off; I am tired of being treated like a hamster in a cage to stimulate their broken economy created by a game that has a lack of incentive to buy or sell anything.

It’s just longer the GW2 I felt in love with with so much creativity and potential; it’s just such a broken, stale game now run by company that, at some point, became convinced that a “good game” is lots of fluffy features, pointless circular grinds and micro transactions.

Like what is GW2 anymore? What’s identity? What is the game exactly about? I used to be able to answer that when I encouraged friends to come play with me, but I can’t anymore.

It’s an MMO. Old people leave, new people join. By the very nature of their longevity this will happen. It doesn’t mean it is dying, simply changing.

Well I, for one, left HoT. Im back to core Tyria so there’s that. Arenanet defenders tend to tell us that its ok for people to leave and that the game needed more challenging content etc. Thats rubbish. The game flourished for years thanks to its easy going model. It didnt have to force a change, it could have simply added a hard mode for those who want it. Losing customers is never good and dont kid yourselves, most of the so called “new people” are free to play.

pepsis.5384:

Well I, for one, left HoT. Im back to core Tyria so there’s that. Arenanet defenders tend to tell us that its ok for people to leave and that the game needed more challenging content etc. Thats rubbish. The game flourished for years thanks to its easy going model. It didnt have to force a change, it could have simply added a hard mode for those who want it. Losing customers is never good and dont kid yourselves, most of the so called “new people” are free to play.

First of all, some free to play people still spend money on the cash shop and some buy the expansion, so there’s that.

More to the point, all MMOs lose customers. Every single one of them. They also all gain new customers. The question is always in the equation customers lost, customers gained and customers returned.

We definitely lost some people to the game being too easy before the expansion. I can’t say how many but I know people who left due to lack of challenge in the game. Some of them have come back. The question I have though is why is losing those people okay, because you liked the content that allowed you to stay, while losing you and people who play like you is a bad thing.

At any rate, Anet has realized, belatedly perhaps, that they’ve lost perhaps too many people from the south pole of the equation, so much so that they said they’ll be making changes to HoT to accomodate some of those people.

I guess when those changes come out we’ll see if the people who left come back, if the people who came back will leave, and how many of which is going to be left.

2 Kinds of players atm.

1. Complaining in forums about HoT sucks etc.
2.Playing and enjoying the game right now.