Guild Wars 2

My assumption is all based on not being able to do specific content without the corresponding Mastery.

Masteries are the new gear progression. Without them you cant kill certain mobs or you cant explore certain areas. This is pretty much forcing you to go grind areas you dont want to play in or content you dont want to do so you can play what you want. That is something that goes against Anets philosophy.

Now I can be 100% incorrect and you wont have to get Masteries to do certain content, all they will do is make the content easier. Certain Masteries should be gated like the hand glider and learning new languages, since you have to learn some way. But you telling me I cant do this boss fight or fight this certain mob because I dont have the corresponding Mastery, is just another gear grind with a fancy name on it.

I love gw2 and ill be buying the expansion no matter what but I’m concerned that the Mastery system isnt anything special and just adds grind to the game, which isnt necessary.

I assume the only enemies you’ll “need” masteries for will be in the Jungle. And if you’re in the jungle doing content (which is the only way you’ll need to kill those enemies), you’re already “grinding” in the jungle. So I don’t really think “grinding an area you don’t want to be” will be a problem.

And who knows exactly how drastic “need” in that context is. Maybe it’ll just be very difficult but possible, or maybe you can do it in a group without the mastery but getting the mastery allows you a smaller group or even solo.

It does seem like there will be special things hidden behind mastery progress, not story stuff and such.

I also don’t really see the connection to gear grind, considering that you would (after you have unlocked a Mastery) increase its level by simply playing. And getting the points to unlock the Mastery doesn’t seem all that hard either (such as map completion, story instances and so on).

It sounds like it’s just a gate-system. Instead of locking stuff behind a time gates, gear checks, and reputation grinds, they’re simply going to lock it all behind the Mastery system.

From the way it sounds, the masteries will be more “Needed” to deal with the bigger enemies, while giving you extra bonuses on dealing with the smaller ones. You may or may not need them to do the content, but if you dont have them the content will be extremely hard to do. And as electro said, you will be out in the jungle already so the grind shouldnt be to bad, maybe.

The older areas that are supposed to be getting things probably wont be needed to deal with the enemies out there, as Anet would have to redo the entire game and all the old zones to be retroactive with this new expansion, which if they do ill be really impressed.

lordkrall.7241:

It does seem like there will be special things hidden behind mastery progress, not story stuff and such.

I also don’t really see the connection to gear grind, considering that you would (after you have unlocked a Mastery) increase its level by simply playing. And getting the points to unlock the Mastery doesn’t seem all that hard either (such as map completion, story instances and so on).

I think the connection is in other MMOs you need certain gear to do a certain thing. With this game you need a certain mastery to do a certain thing. gear grind in other games=mastery grind in this game.

Now, I am in no way insinuating that the actual grind time in GW2 will be anywhere near as long or frustrating as in other games. I am totally not. THis game is a blast, but it’s for sure there. If you want to get to certain things you will have to get mastery points to access them.

Instead of gear gating we have map gating.

As an explorer, I don’t like it, but whatever. It is what it is. Like I said in another post. I wish they had kept the gated content contained to optional stuff like cosmetics.

That is my main concern, the need for these Masteries. I understand the need to master a language or how to hand glide but when it comes to combat, if they gate it behind the Mastery, all it feels like is a “gear grind”. When I say gear grind I mean a grind for something to be able to do certain content. Which is what gear grinding is and what Masteries are looking like.

Like Dante said, they would have to redo the zones if the Masteries were to do with the mobs/environment in a zone other than the jungle.

The fact that it’s “gated content” doesn’t bother me. Absolutely anything you don’t begin the game with is technically “gated”. Skills are gated. Story missions are gated. The very concept of progression – even so-called “horizontal progression” – requires that one begin with less, and progress toward more. Zelda, one of the series referenced in the inspiration for masteries, “gates” content behind completion of certain story segments, or acquisition of certain tools. You may want to play in Death Mountain, but it’s not happening until you’ve “unlocked” it by progressing through the required content. Even more non-linear games like Skyrim “gate” content. You can’t perform shouts until complete certain requirements. You can’t experience game play with a short sword until you find one.

This is not, in itself, negative. Complaining that something is “gated” or that you are “locked out” of using it does not actually illustrate a problem with the system, it just makes a very vague statement about how the system (and nearly any other progression system) works.

So, how should masteries work? How do you have a “progression system” (which we all knew this was) in which progress is satisfying and rewarding, but holds back absolutely nothing from those who haven’t yet reached a given point? How do you implement a way to progress that doesn’t require you to progress?

it’s “gated” content in the same way lv80 stuff is “gated” to new characters.

what ANet is aiming to do is allow you to progress your character more (and yes, gate things until you’re stronger) without invalidating the stuff you’ve already worked on (gear, levels, skills, etc).

the game can’t remain static forever. even GW1 had a very, very similar system, before some old vets come crying “but back in GW1!”

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Their new map will be very small like they said. They didn’t use the adjective “small” for the ls mini map, so they might be even smaller. They want to gate the content of the dlc so it is not burned in 5 hours for normal player, 2 hours for rushers. Yes, the same time as a ls season. The more they talk us about the dlc, the more it seems to be a ls season + feature pack.

Lunarhound.7324:

The fact that it’s “gated content” doesn’t bother me. Absolutely anything you don’t begin the game with is technically “gated”. Skills are gated. Story missions are gated. The very concept of progression – even so-called “horizontal progression” – requires that one begin with less, and progress toward more. Zelda, one of the series referenced in the inspiration for masteries, “gates” content behind completion of certain story segments, or acquisition of certain tools. You may want to play in Death Mountain, but it’s not happening until you’ve “unlocked” it by progressing through the required content. Even more non-linear games like Skyrim “gate” content. You can’t perform shouts until complete certain requirements. You can’t experience game play with a short sword until you find one.

This is not, in itself, negative. Complaining that something is “gated” or that you are “locked out” of using it does not actually illustrate a problem with the system, it just makes a very vague statement about how the system (and nearly any other progression system) works.

So, how should masteries work? How do you have a “progression system” (which we all knew this was) in which progress is satisfying and rewarding, but holds back absolutely nothing from those who haven’t yet reached a given point? How do you implement a way to progress that doesn’t require you to progress?

I just made a post on how combat Masteries should work, imo. Things like the glider and learning new language should be gating but combat is something that should be skill based and not gear/mastery based.

If you don’t like the grind and what the xpac is bringing why buy it? This is why GW2 won’t move forward, too many people buy into the hype without asking for quality content.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

Beast Sos.1457:

Now I can be 100% incorrect

You said it. I agree.

Gyler.8150:

If you don’t like the grind and what the xpac is bringing why buy it? This is why GW2 won’t move forward, too many people buy into the hype without asking for quality content.

Who said I dont like what the expansion is bringing. I’m stating my concerns on the Mastery system and how its going to be handled.

Simzani.4318:

Their new map will be very small like they said. They didn’t use the adjective “small” for the ls mini map, so they might be even smaller. They want to gate the content of the dlc so it is not burned in 5 hours for normal player, 2 hours for rushers. Yes, the same time as a ls season. The more they talk us about the dlc, the more it seems to be a ls season + feature pack.

the hell are you smoking? they said these will be some of the largest, most dense maps in GW2. there will be few of them, but they’ll be big. and they did use the term “small” to define every new map that came out since launch.

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

You mean like Orr was gated to you when you started the game? You couldn’t just go there, you had to grind levels and get gear. How is this different?

Beast Sos.1457:

My assumption is all based on not being able to do specific content without the corresponding Mastery.

Masteries are the new gear progression. Without them you cant kill certain mobs or you cant explore certain areas. This is pretty much forcing you to go grind areas you dont want to play in or content you dont want to do so you can play what you want. That is something that goes against Anets philosophy.

Now I can be 100% incorrect and you wont have to get Masteries to do certain content, all they will do is make the content easier. Certain Masteries should be gated like the hand glider and learning new languages, since you have to learn some way. But you telling me I cant do this boss fight or fight this certain mob because I dont have the corresponding Mastery, is just another gear grind with a fancy name on it.

I love gw2 and ill be buying the expansion no matter what but I’m concerned that the Mastery system isnt anything special and just adds grind to the game, which isnt necessary.

Even if you’re correct, the difference is that it doesn’t trivialize old content or render the work you’ve put into the game up to this point obsolete.

Content gating is pretty much mandatory for an MMO. What would be the point of being able to go anywhere and do anything right out of the gate?

Show me where it said that, you cannot fight without the combat mastery please.

I saw, combat mastery will aid you in tougher fights, not “Impossible without”.

Maybe, i’m wrong here…but i’d love to see where these assertions are coming from.

Beast Sos.1457:

Lunarhound.7324:

The fact that it’s “gated content” doesn’t bother me. Absolutely anything you don’t begin the game with is technically “gated”. Skills are gated. Story missions are gated. The very concept of progression – even so-called “horizontal progression” – requires that one begin with less, and progress toward more. Zelda, one of the series referenced in the inspiration for masteries, “gates” content behind completion of certain story segments, or acquisition of certain tools. You may want to play in Death Mountain, but it’s not happening until you’ve “unlocked” it by progressing through the required content. Even more non-linear games like Skyrim “gate” content. You can’t perform shouts until complete certain requirements. You can’t experience game play with a short sword until you find one.

This is not, in itself, negative. Complaining that something is “gated” or that you are “locked out” of using it does not actually illustrate a problem with the system, it just makes a very vague statement about how the system (and nearly any other progression system) works.

So, how should masteries work? How do you have a “progression system” (which we all knew this was) in which progress is satisfying and rewarding, but holds back absolutely nothing from those who haven’t yet reached a given point? How do you implement a way to progress that doesn’t require you to progress?

I just made a post on how combat Masteries should work, imo. Things like the glider and learning new language should be gating but combat is something that should be skill based and not gear/mastery based.

why can’t it be both? you need the mastery to stand a chance in combat (hi agony resistance, hi the-entire-point-of-leveling-to-80), but that alone won’t win the fight, you still need to be skilled enough to take the enemy down.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

You mean like Orr was gated to you when you started the game? You couldn’t just go there, you had to grind levels and get gear. How is this different?

You cant compare end game to the levelling experience. I was never once gated at lvl 80 in gw2. Once i hit 80 i had the gold to get rare gear just from lvling, that was enough to do all exp dungeons. I was never gated once. Even in green gear you can do Arah exp.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Beast Sos.1457:

Lunarhound.7324:

The fact that it’s “gated content” doesn’t bother me. Absolutely anything you don’t begin the game with is technically “gated”. Skills are gated. Story missions are gated. The very concept of progression – even so-called “horizontal progression” – requires that one begin with less, and progress toward more. Zelda, one of the series referenced in the inspiration for masteries, “gates” content behind completion of certain story segments, or acquisition of certain tools. You may want to play in Death Mountain, but it’s not happening until you’ve “unlocked” it by progressing through the required content. Even more non-linear games like Skyrim “gate” content. You can’t perform shouts until complete certain requirements. You can’t experience game play with a short sword until you find one.

This is not, in itself, negative. Complaining that something is “gated” or that you are “locked out” of using it does not actually illustrate a problem with the system, it just makes a very vague statement about how the system (and nearly any other progression system) works.

So, how should masteries work? How do you have a “progression system” (which we all knew this was) in which progress is satisfying and rewarding, but holds back absolutely nothing from those who haven’t yet reached a given point? How do you implement a way to progress that doesn’t require you to progress?

I just made a post on how combat Masteries should work, imo. Things like the glider and learning new language should be gating but combat is something that should be skill based and not gear/mastery based.

why can’t it be both? you need the mastery to stand a chance in combat (hi agony resistance, hi the-entire-point-of-leveling-to-80), but that alone won’t win the fight, you still need to be skilled enough to take the enemy down.

Read my other post. Its called Combat Masteries. I feel like the ideas I gave (not specifically) are what combat Masteries should look like.

I like the idea of gating languages and the hand gliders, but combat should never be gated.

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

In the current game you can make your way to Frostgorge or Orr without being a high enough character level to fight efficiently. You can get there, but the mobs will one shot you. That’s what it sounds like here. The lower your (Mastery) level, the harder, to impossible, it will be to fight certain mobs. It’s leveling without leveling.

In other words the game already has combat gating.

Astral Projections.7320:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

In the current game you can make your way to Frostgorge or Orr without being a high enough character level to fight efficiently. You can get there, but the mobs will one shot you. That’s what it sounds like here. The lower your (Mastery) level, the harder, to impossible, it will be to fight certain mobs. It’s leveling without leveling.

In other words the game already has combat gating.

We are talking about gating end game content here. Not lvling content.

Beast Sos.1457:

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

They’ve compared the new zone(s?) to a Metroid game. Let’s keep that in mind and look at how a Metroid game works.

Most of what you get in the game is used to increase your ability to move around. Weapon upgrades are, by and large, not needed to face a boss, but to get to them. Bombs to open tunnels, missiles to get through red doors, and so on. The first few upgrades are generally gotten without too much trouble, but soon you’re fighting bosses to get the upgrade behind them. That upgrade increases the areas you have access to, and in one of the new areas you find the next boss.

If ANet follows this pattern, then it’s not so much that you need the Masteries to fight the boss as it is that you need them to REACH the boss. You should never be in a hopeless fight because you’re facing a boss you can’t take down due to a lack of a Mastery. Ungodly difficult, yes, but never impossible.

Side note for the people at ANet: If you could have one of the artifacts we find in the new zone be held in the hands of a large Tengu statue (sitting or standing), I would be very grateful.

Kal Spiro.9745:

You mean like Orr was gated to you when you started the game? You couldn’t just go there, you had to grind levels and get gear. How is this different?

That’s not the concern we’re (or at least I’m) expressing. Gates, in and of themselves, aren’t necessarily bad. It’s how they’re used that often turn out to be bad. If the expansion launches with just two maps (hypothetical) that take half a day to explore, then people are going to cry that the expansion is too light. If the developers lock the second map behind a gate that can only be unlocked after grinding for weeks in the first map, and they’ve just artificially given the illusion that the expansion is bigger than it is, but they’ve done so at the cost of fun. In the long run, that kind of gating is bad for everyone.

Beast Sos.1457:

Astral Projections.7320:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

In the current game you can make your way to Frostgorge or Orr without being a high enough character level to fight efficiently. You can get there, but the mobs will one shot you. That’s what it sounds like here. The lower your (Mastery) level, the harder, to impossible, it will be to fight certain mobs. It’s leveling without leveling.

In other words the game already has combat gating.

We are talking about gating end game content here. Not lvling content.

I’m making a comparison. The mastery system is ANet’s answer to MMOs raising the level cap by 10 with each new expansion and wiping out your gear that you worked so hard for.

Why is it acceptable to gate combat by raising the level cap and invalidating all your gear in other MMOs but not acceptable to have a gate through this Mastery system which allows you to keep all your gear?

This way you get to progress your character and make it stronger without wiping out old progress.

Beast Sos.1457:

Astral Projections.7320:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

In the current game you can make your way to Frostgorge or Orr without being a high enough character level to fight efficiently. You can get there, but the mobs will one shot you. That’s what it sounds like here. The lower your (Mastery) level, the harder, to impossible, it will be to fight certain mobs. It’s leveling without leveling.

In other words the game already has combat gating.

We are talking about gating end game content here. Not lvling content.

It’s the same general concept though. It has to be that way (to some extent) in order to replicate the feeling of progression, of getting stronger in order to move forward. It’s no different.

Beast Sos.1457:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Beast Sos.1457:

Lunarhound.7324:

The fact that it’s “gated content” doesn’t bother me. Absolutely anything you don’t begin the game with is technically “gated”. Skills are gated. Story missions are gated. The very concept of progression – even so-called “horizontal progression” – requires that one begin with less, and progress toward more. Zelda, one of the series referenced in the inspiration for masteries, “gates” content behind completion of certain story segments, or acquisition of certain tools. You may want to play in Death Mountain, but it’s not happening until you’ve “unlocked” it by progressing through the required content. Even more non-linear games like Skyrim “gate” content. You can’t perform shouts until complete certain requirements. You can’t experience game play with a short sword until you find one.

This is not, in itself, negative. Complaining that something is “gated” or that you are “locked out” of using it does not actually illustrate a problem with the system, it just makes a very vague statement about how the system (and nearly any other progression system) works.

So, how should masteries work? How do you have a “progression system” (which we all knew this was) in which progress is satisfying and rewarding, but holds back absolutely nothing from those who haven’t yet reached a given point? How do you implement a way to progress that doesn’t require you to progress?

I just made a post on how combat Masteries should work, imo. Things like the glider and learning new language should be gating but combat is something that should be skill based and not gear/mastery based.

why can’t it be both? you need the mastery to stand a chance in combat (hi agony resistance, hi the-entire-point-of-leveling-to-80), but that alone won’t win the fight, you still need to be skilled enough to take the enemy down.

Read my other post. Its called Combat Masteries. I feel like the ideas I gave (not specifically) are what combat Masteries should look like.

I like the idea of gating languages and the hand gliders, but combat should never be gated.

here’s how combat masteries have been described before (paraphrasing):

“i come across this insurmountable task, and later i unlock this combat mastery, and it’s the tool i need to take on that fight, the key to that lock”.

nowhere does it say it trivializes the fight.

the problem seems that you wanted the game to just freeze in time combat wise. why shouldn’t we have more ways to advance our combat skills? why can’t we extend the experience of looking forward to when you can tackle a certain challenge?

is it gating? yes, it is. is it anything new to the game? no, it’s not. if you didn’t have agony resistance, you couldn’t do fractals, because you’d get one-shotted. similarly, HoT will present challenges that will require new tools to even stand a chance against. where HoT differs from other MMOs is that it does so without taking away what you already have worked towards. your leveling effort is respected. your top gear is still the top. everything you’ve done so far is still relevant. you just have to do more things now.

Astral Projections.7320:

Beast Sos.1457:

Astral Projections.7320:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

In the current game you can make your way to Frostgorge or Orr without being a high enough character level to fight efficiently. You can get there, but the mobs will one shot you. That’s what it sounds like here. The lower your (Mastery) level, the harder, to impossible, it will be to fight certain mobs. It’s leveling without leveling.

In other words the game already has combat gating.

We are talking about gating end game content here. Not lvling content.

I’m making a comparison. The mastery system is ANet’s answer to MMOs raising the level cap by 10 with each new expansion and wiping out your gear that you worked so hard for.

Why is it acceptable to gate combat by raising the level cap and invalidating all your gear in other MMOs but not acceptable to have a gate through this Mastery system which allows you to keep all your gear?

This way you get to progress your character and make it stronger without wiping out old progress.

Content doesnt have to get gated behind Masteries to make the valuable. If a Mastery makes you take less dmg from mobs or you do more dmg to mobs then its going to be very valuable. I for one would work towards that Mastery tree without the feeling of being forced.

Beast Sos.1457:

I just made a post on how combat Masteries should work, imo. Things like the glider and learning new language should be gating but combat is something that should be skill based and not gear/mastery based.

Okay, that is definitely a valid concern. The wording of your post gave me the impression that you were criticizing the mastery system as a whole for gating any content at all.

What gives me hope that combat masteries won’t feel too much like gating is the fact that you actually have to progress them. That, by itself, allows for at least a glimmer of hope that it won’t be a simple matter of “buy this to be able to kill that”. What we want is the feeling of learning new abilities that give us an edge in combat. Preferably, an edge that has some sort of unique (and hopefully, visually impressive) utility, and isn’t just statistical.

What we do not want is the feeling of, “Hey, raptors used to be invincible, but I bought the Raptor Fighting mastery, and now I can fight them like a normal enemy”. Or, as the case may be, “Raptors used to be invincible, but I progressed to level 2 of Combat Mastery and now I can fight them like a normal enemy. Giant tree monsters are still invincible, but I’ll gain the ability to fight them like a normal enemy at Combat Mastery 3.” That doesn’t improve combat or make it more interesting, it simply acts as a Mastery Point sink in the guise of learning a new ability.

What I’m REALLY HOPING they do is something more like this: “Some types of foes have armored parts that negate or greatly reduce damage taken from the side the armor is on. Now that my Combat Mastery is at 2, I have the ability to knock pieces of armor off (knock that huge shield out of that guard’s hand, or blast off a chunk of that thing’s armored shell), which lets me do huge amounts of damage by attacking in the direction of the exposed area. At Combat Mastery 3, I’ll be able to disarm opponents that carry special weapons (knock that huge hammer out of that ogre’s hand, so he can’t keep knocking everyone down with it).”

In other words, don’t simply make it so that we have to spend points to buy the ability to fight certain enemies. Make all enemies able to be defeated, but allow us to train our combat mastery to affect them in ways that give us unique advantages over them, and also look really cool.

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

You mean like Orr was gated to you when you started the game? You couldn’t just go there, you had to grind levels and get gear. How is this different?

You cant compare end game to the levelling experience. I was never once gated at lvl 80 in gw2. Once i hit 80 i had the gold to get rare gear just from lvling, that was enough to do all exp dungeons. I was never gated once. Even in green gear you can do Arah exp.

That’s ok, because this isn’t GW2, this is GW2:HoT. And yes, I can definitely compare leveling up to leveling up, because that’s what you’ll be doing. You will no longer be a level 80 when you load up HoT, you will be whatever your Mastery Level is.

Instead of a continent with four separate regions we’re only getting one region. If you can just enter it and do it all right off the bat you’ll run out of game in nothing flat, no matter how dense it is. By making you level up with horizontal leveling in order to access and use the content they’re drawing it out. It isn’t a gear grind, you’re just leveling up your new parallel levels.

The more info they release, the more certain I am that I will NOT be getting this expansion. I just hope they sell the new class separately on the gem store.

Beast Sos.1457:

Astral Projections.7320:

Beast Sos.1457:

Astral Projections.7320:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

In the current game you can make your way to Frostgorge or Orr without being a high enough character level to fight efficiently. You can get there, but the mobs will one shot you. That’s what it sounds like here. The lower your (Mastery) level, the harder, to impossible, it will be to fight certain mobs. It’s leveling without leveling.

In other words the game already has combat gating.

We are talking about gating end game content here. Not lvling content.

I’m making a comparison. The mastery system is ANet’s answer to MMOs raising the level cap by 10 with each new expansion and wiping out your gear that you worked so hard for.

Why is it acceptable to gate combat by raising the level cap and invalidating all your gear in other MMOs but not acceptable to have a gate through this Mastery system which allows you to keep all your gear?

This way you get to progress your character and make it stronger without wiping out old progress.

Content doesnt have to get gated behind Masteries to make the valuable. If a Mastery makes you take less dmg from mobs or you do more dmg to mobs then its going to be very valuable. I for one would work towards that Mastery tree without the feeling of being forced.

Wait, is this not what you assume it’s going to be? Cause that’s pretty much how I assumed it would work because it’s the only thing that makes sense.

Lunarhound.7324:

Beast Sos.1457:

I just made a post on how combat Masteries should work, imo. Things like the glider and learning new language should be gating but combat is something that should be skill based and not gear/mastery based.

Okay, that is definitely a valid concern. The wording of your post gave me the impression that you were criticizing the mastery system as a whole for gating any content at all.

What gives me hope that combat masteries won’t feel too much like gating is the fact that you actually have to progress them. That, by itself, allows for at least a glimmer of hope that it won’t be a simple matter of “buy this to be able to kill that”. What we want is the feeling of learning new abilities that give us an edge in combat. Preferably, an edge that has some sort of unique (and hopefully, visually impressive) utility, and isn’t just statistical.

What we do not want is the feeling of, “Hey, raptors used to be invincible, but I bought the Raptor Fighting mastery, and now I can fight them like a normal enemy”. Or, as the case may be, “Raptors used to be invincible, but I progressed to level 2 of Combat Mastery and now I can fight them like a normal enemy. Giant tree monsters are still invincible, but I’ll gain the ability to fight them like a normal enemy at Combat Mastery 3.” That doesn’t improve combat or make it more interesting, it simply acts as a Mastery Point sink in the guise of learning a new ability.

What I’m REALLY HOPING they do is something more like this: “Some types of foes have armored parts that negate or greatly reduce damage taken from the side the armor is on. Now that my Combat Mastery is at 2, I have the ability to knock pieces of armor off (knock that huge shield out of that guard’s hand, or blast off a chunk of that thing’s armored shell), which lets me do huge amounts of damage by attacking in the direction of the exposed area. At Combat Mastery 3, I’ll be able to disarm opponents that carry special weapons (knock that huge hammer out of that ogre’s hand, so he can’t keep knocking everyone down with it).”

In other words, don’t simply make it so that we have to spend points to buy the ability to fight certain enemies. Make all enemies able to be defeated, but allow us to train our combat mastery to affect them in ways that give us unique advantages over them, and also look really cool.

This x1000000. I shouldnt feel like I’m forced to get combat Masteries, I should feel that I want that Mastery to be more useful or stronger.

“4. Master Combat: The Heart of Maguuma will be home to some of the most challenging combat in Guild Wars 2, and Masteries will give you the tools you need to excel in these fights. Hunt new enemies, master abilities to defeat champions, and become more deadly against the new creatures waiting in the jungle.”

My take on it:
I read this as needing the tools the Mastery system will give you to fight the new mobs and bosses. Regular “trash mobs” will stay the same but new mobs that you encounter will have new attack mechanics that you will need special skills to fight. Like in the old system where you might need to have stability on your skill bar to fight a particular fight, the new system will give you new skills or innate abilities to counter these new attacks.

It might be the new system with more intelligent AI ANet is going to talk about in March and you’ll need new skills to handle the more intelligent AI.
http://schedule.gdconf.com/session/building-a-better-centaur-ai-at-massive-scale

That’s how I’m reading it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Beast Sos.1457:

Astral Projections.7320:

Beast Sos.1457:

Astral Projections.7320:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

In the current game you can make your way to Frostgorge or Orr without being a high enough character level to fight efficiently. You can get there, but the mobs will one shot you. That’s what it sounds like here. The lower your (Mastery) level, the harder, to impossible, it will be to fight certain mobs. It’s leveling without leveling.

In other words the game already has combat gating.

We are talking about gating end game content here. Not lvling content.

I’m making a comparison. The mastery system is ANet’s answer to MMOs raising the level cap by 10 with each new expansion and wiping out your gear that you worked so hard for.

Why is it acceptable to gate combat by raising the level cap and invalidating all your gear in other MMOs but not acceptable to have a gate through this Mastery system which allows you to keep all your gear?

This way you get to progress your character and make it stronger without wiping out old progress.

Content doesnt have to get gated behind Masteries to make the valuable. If a Mastery makes you take less dmg from mobs or you do more dmg to mobs then its going to be very valuable. I for one would work towards that Mastery tree without the feeling of being forced.

Wait, is this not what you assume it’s going to be? Cause that’s pretty much how I assumed it would work because it’s the only thing that makes sense.

I’m assuming that impossible will be made possible by grinding out the Masteries. Combat wise that is.

My take on how Combat Masteries should work.

The way I would like to see these Masteries added is, for example, the mordrem wolf is deadly when it flanks, we should get a Mastery that lowers the dmg on the flank and another one that increases the dmg you do to mordrem in general. Another example is, when fighting a Mordrem dragon he flies over you and tries to pick you up, if it gets you, you are dropped from a certain height taking fall dmg. gain a Mastery that either reduces the fall dmg or makes it so the dragon cant pick you up as high, which tunrs out to less fall dmg.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Beast Sos.1457:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Ok, but at the same time, it seems like everyone who has an 80, and especially has been playing for a long while will be starting the game with a nice big chunk of Master Points. On the same note, new players will potentially be earning Mastery Points long before they ever reach the point where they can start using them.

Once you have Mastery Points you’re just leveling up your Mastery Track like you were leveling up your level before. It’s only a grind if you make it a grind. It’s as casual or hard core as you want it to be, without requiring you to do a raid every Wednesday with your entire guild to have a chance at maybe getting that one piece of gear you need to increase your gear score by 5.

Well the problem I’m seeing is that combat will be gated. That is a huge turn off for me. Like I said I could be 100% wrong but from the looks of it its seems like I would have to grind out a Mastery to be able to fight a certain boss/mob.

You mean like Orr was gated to you when you started the game? You couldn’t just go there, you had to grind levels and get gear. How is this different?

You cant compare end game to the levelling experience. I was never once gated at lvl 80 in gw2. Once i hit 80 i had the gold to get rare gear just from lvling, that was enough to do all exp dungeons. I was never gated once. Even in green gear you can do Arah exp.

That’s ok, because this isn’t GW2, this is GW2:HoT. And yes, I can definitely compare leveling up to leveling up, because that’s what you’ll be doing. You will no longer be a level 80 when you load up HoT, you will be whatever your Mastery Level is.

Instead of a continent with four separate regions we’re only getting one region. If you can just enter it and do it all right off the bat you’ll run out of game in nothing flat, no matter how dense it is. By making you level up with horizontal leveling in order to access and use the content they’re drawing it out. It isn’t a gear grind, you’re just leveling up your new parallel levels.

I’m not saying they shouldnt have something to work towards. What I am saying is that you shouldnt be forced to get it but more compelled to get it because its just that useful.

I am not against gating. I would just rather the gating be about cosmetics. Gated glider skins that we earn through the mastery system versus the gem shop because the gliders are a system of the x-pac which we already paid for. Gating armor skins, weapons skins that we earn and for the very same reasons I just mentioned.

Gating certain enemies is not my cup of tea. I want my enemies to be based on my skill as a player, not based on my gear or in GW2’s case how many mastery points I have earned and which places I have placed them. Same goes for exploring.

I like grinding for new skills , and masteries.
I like grinding things that get you new abilities.
The reason why I rarely touch dry top or silver waste is because
all you are doing is grinding for cosmetics which for me is pointless.

PS: I rather grind for new abilities than grind for stats

My question is why complain about gated content now? It’s not like the Mastery system is the first to do this in game. What about agony preventing you from doing high level fractals without getting the infusions? What about World Ability Points that improve what you do in WvW? I guess I just don’t understand why people are getting defensive about Mastery when the truth is Anet is not introducing something that’s a foreign concept.

BilboBaggins.5620:

The more info they release, the more certain I am that I will NOT be getting this expansion. I just hope they sell the new class separately on the gem store.

Don’t buy it, then. You can enjoy the vanilla content all you want.

ImTasty.2163:

My question is why complain about gated content now? It’s not like the Mastery system is the first to do this in game. What about agony preventing you from doing high level fractals without getting the infusions? What about World Ability Points that improve what you do in WvW? I guess I just don’t understand why people are getting defensive about Mastery when the truth is Anet is not introducing something that’s a foreign concept.

That’s how people are? This is an mmorpg forum, if someone is not complaining the game is dead.

From what I have heard in interviews is that the mastery system will be similar to the mastery system in WvW.

One example being mastery from flame rams. anyone can use the ram, but those that maxed out that line are more effective using them. or the supply mastery everyone picks up supply in WvW and Eotm, but the more points in that mastery allows you to carry more supply.

With the exception of the hang gliding and lore masteries, i don’t think you will be locked out of it completely. it would be a bit more difficult to clear certain content without the mastery.

It’s only grindy if the I receive inappropriate reward for any given event. For instance, Claw of Jormag feels grindy only because the event is not easy and it was not very rewarding. But ever since they’ve added the one-exotic-guarantee reward, it feels satisfactory to do the event.

My point is, “grind” is a matter of perspective.

Beast Sos.1457:

My take on how Combat Masteries should work.

The way I would like to see these Masteries added is, for example, the mordrem wolf is deadly when it flanks, we should get a Mastery that lowers the dmg on the flank and another one that increases the dmg you do to mordrem in general. Another example is, when fighting a Mordrem dragon he flies over you and tries to pick you up, if it gets you, you are dropped from a certain height taking fall dmg. gain a Mastery that either reduces the fall dmg or makes it so the dragon cant pick you up as high, which tunrs out to less fall dmg.

i really DON’T like this idea because all it does is trivialize player skill. wasn’t it you that just a few posts above was saying about how combat should be about player skill, not having the right masteries? how isn’t “now i don’t have to worry about being flanked by mordrem wolves” the exact opposite of that?

rather than something uninteresting like “now i do more damage against X enemy”, i prefer combat masteries to be “enablers”. yeah, hard gates. can’t do this thing until i have that thing. better than “can do this thing, but once i have that thing, it’ll be way easier”.

ImTasty.2163:

My question is why complain about gated content now? It’s not like the Mastery system is the first to do this in game. What about agony preventing you from doing high level fractals without getting the infusions? What about World Ability Points that improve what you do in WvW? I guess I just don’t understand why people are getting defensive about Mastery when the truth is Anet is not introducing something that’s a foreign concept.

The Mastery system doesnt have to gate combat thats the thing here. They can make it so getting the Mastery is VERY useful but not necessary. That would personally make me want it more. Especially the fact that I can work at it at w.e pace I want since its not gating me from content.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

It’s only grindy if the I receive inappropriate reward for any given event. For instance, Claw of Jormag feels grindy only because the event is not easy and it was not very rewarding. But ever since they’ve added the one-exotic-guarantee reward, it feels satisfactory to do the event.

My point is, “grind” is a matter of perspective.

Buddy that isn’t what grind means, what you are describing is simply unrewarding content.

Grind just means doing something repeatedly in other to get something you are required to get.

TexZero.7910:

Show me where it said that, you cannot fight without the combat mastery please.

“As you keep progressing in the lore with the Itzel they’ll start giving you access to special combat abilities that will help you overcome obstacles that you absolutely could not defeat before.”

How Guild Wars 2’s Mastery System Could Change MMOs Forever