Guild Wars 2

So rather than give a review of everything in one post, I decided I’ll break them up. This one is, obviously, about Revenants.

The first thing to note is that the Revenant, clearly, isn’t finished. Only three trait lines, only two weapon combinations total you can use, and only two legends, so this is based on a combination of the class in it’s current state along with some assumptions. You know what they say about making assumptions, though, so take all this with a grain of salt.

I also realize many of you already know this, so any information you find repetitive, well, that part isn’t targeted to you anyway

When logging in, you find that you have two weapon combinations your character can equip; either a hammer or a Mace/Axe combination. The revenant, like the elementalist and engineer, only gets one weapon set equipped at a time, but at current the selection is pretty slim.

The revenenant also comes with two legends he can channel, Mallyx the Unyielding and dwarf king Jalis Ironhammer.

In essence, the character works as such: like the engineer and elementalist, they get the one weapon set. With the aforementioned other two, they get character mechanics that allows them to change their skills 1-5, giving them the weapon flexibility lost by having only one weapon set.

Curiously, though, instead of replacing skills 1-5, the legendary channeling replaces, and determines, skills 6-10.

This creates the odd effect of your not changing your weapon skills during combat… ever. So, I wonder if switching the legend you are channeling will allow weapon swapping effects to trigger, otherwise things such as on swap sigils won’t function. I have to admit, I forgot to check this while playing, I’m sure someone else noticed though and can comment on that

The revenant seems to have a lot of moving parts to consider when playing, and has some interesting and intriguing abilities. For example, a trait that gives 2.5 seconds stability every time the revenant dodges. Imagine that with some vigor

The legends define a definite style of play (which is in a way a problem, as I’ll point out). The dwarf stance, as an example seems to be the more direct tanky, granting stability, taunting, cleansing conditions, and the like, while the demonic form really loves spreading around conditions, at the price of suffering some conditions itself (although it can also get some of the new boon Resistance to ignore conditions for a short while).

While it won’t be for everyone, I find this character a lot of fun to play, though it does have a bit more of a learning curve than some. I think most people will find its capabilities satisfying, though it certainly isnt for everyone.

The only real problem I see is going to be build diversity. What it really boils down to is this: is what we saw so far going to be a pretty solid skeleton for the rest of the legends or are there more options with each legend?

The issues are as follows:

1. Revenants only get one weapon set. I’m sure more WEAPONS will be available, but only one actual set is there to use.
2. You only get two legends to channel. Yes, we will get more legends, but you can only have two equipped.
3. Each legend has a specific set of skills you can use 6-10 that you cant change.

(continued)

To compare, while elementalists get only one weapon set, they have four different lists of abilities they can use, and can freely change 6-10; engineers also get only one weapon set, but can use weapon kits to change their 1-5, and also get toolbelt skills, and can also change 6-10.

Revenents get one weapon, that doesnt change, and two very specific defined sets of 6-10. They can change the entire set, but only to other specific lists. This basically means you are choosing to play one of two pre-builts, with the only variation is what you do with your traits.

Frankly I think this is a bad idea. There has been much discussion over the years, including by the devs, about build diversity. This class has very little diversity compared to other classes.

Now, it could be an artifice. This complaint has been raised before, and we got a response from the devs that all wasn’t set in stone yet. And maybe they have more planned, like for instance perhaps each legend gets two different choices in each slot you can select between combats, or perhaps the revenenant will have a base skill for each you can select to use instead of the legend specific one.

I’m just guessing, far left field stuff here, but the point being, if the class’s final version is like this, just with more legendaries, weapons and trait lists, I’m afraid it will be found dissatisfying as a class that has few real build options. “Here, play one of our prebuilts, dont worry about making your own build!!!”

We will see. The class is intriguing and fun, I enjoyed it a lot, but not being fully developed yet it’s hard to say. It may end up becoming relegated to a “beginner” class as one you don’t have to worry too much about changing the builds a whole lot. I hope this perception is wrong.

To further compound that, it seems you will need more than one set of gear as well at all times. What I mean by this is that if one legend isn’t complimented by a set of armor but these other two legends are it will lead to people only running two legends that go with their gear or they will have to carry multiple sets of armor. Because we can’t switch armor during combat and now with stats all being tied to armor it’s going to be a frustration.

I can see myself saying, “Man I really like this one legend, but it doesn’t go with the others. I guess I won’t run it because it would need it’s own set of armor and I would only be able to run it exclusively.”

I sincerely hope there are builds we can use that don’t use a legend as an Elite skill. They really should have an Elite or two that doesn’t use a legend so that if there is a legend or two that don’t go with another legend it won’t matter because you can take one of those elites that isn’t a legend. My two cents.

and the revenant in this beta was the same revenant in the PAX East demo… basically a hybrid tank / condi spec, with celestial gear, and toughness runes. to make it even more simple to understand, they gave us a build that i’ll never run, because it does way too little damage. if i want a condi spec, i won’t run cele. i’ll run sinister, or dire, or something that gives lots of condi damage.

feedback on celestial gear: until Anet gives me a free set of celestial gear just for turning 80 (ie, the level 80 reward chest grants a full set of celestial armor, weapons, and trinketts) i will not bother with celestial gear in PvE. i will not waste 30 days or more making the once-a-day charged crystals.

Morfedel.4165:

The first thing to note is that the Revenant, clearly, isn’t finished.

Isn’t it interesting that the Revenant is in the exact same state it was in the previous beta, all that time ago? I wonder, did ArenaNet do any work at all on it? I can’t help but wonder if most of the team was busy trying to pick between Dragonhunter and DragonintsertWoWprofessionhere.

I think the Revenant is part of ArenaNet’s new model of “choices are too hard for our players, we need to give them as few as possible!”. Not only players don’t get to swap weapons, we also don’t get to swap utility skills outside of swapping legends (and even those are limited to two at any given time).

Which means, build diversity for the Revenant is incredibly, massively low.

And isn’t that the direction ArenaNet is going for? I wouldn’t be surprised if they just remove two thirds of the announced traits and just claim that each trait line will have only one trait per tier, because, you know, “choices” and all.

well.. thats exactly my issues with the rev aswell

Locked skills AND no weapon swap does not fly. No room for experimentation and fine tuning\adusting the class to your needs and likes. If you happen to not like\want to use a skill of a specific legend then it sucks to be you….cause thats beyond your total controll. Got the hammer equipped and get dragged into melee then it sucks to be you…or you are melee and an encounter “forces” you to go ranged…what ensures you even got time to open your inventory, swap your axe and mace to the hammer..or whatever else the rev is gonna use? Nothing.. one hit and you are screwed…ranged aint gonna happen anymore till you go OCC. The rev is as flexible as a plate of steel no matter how i look at it. Im not saying that the rev is lame…not at all, i actually love the idea behind the mechanic… HOWEVER…. there are things… build diversity, personal touch and so on that got no place at the current rev. Well lets add all together…

- No weapon swap what is a point i can swallow..cause i main an engi and im used to
that.

- Only two legends that most likely wont allow to change out skills at all…means it
forces skills on you that you got zero controll about. If you dont like ALL of the skills
of a legend then though kitten…gotta take all or none

- With the upcoming trait nerf\buff (however you look at it) the class takes another
kick into the shins of build diversity

What do we get? The class version of an outfit. I rest my case.

Test.8734:

I think the Revenant is part of ArenaNet’s new model of “choices are too hard for our players, we need to give them as few as possible!”. Not only players don’t get to swap weapons, we also don’t get to swap utility skills outside of swapping legends (and even those are limited to two at any given time).

Which means, build diversity for the Revenant is incredibly, massively low.

And isn’t that the direction ArenaNet is going for? I wouldn’t be surprised if they just remove two thirds of the announced traits and just claim that each trait line will have only one trait per tier, because, you know, “choices” and all.

I think someone at Anet mentioned in an interview sometime early-mid last year that some 90%+ of players set their utility skills according to their internal data and never changed them. I remember talking to guildies about that when it put out there. So, knowing that it’s no suprise they are moving to dumb things down because to 90% of the playerbase it’s simply not going to matter.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Test.8734:

I think the Revenant is part of ArenaNet’s new model of “choices are too hard for our players, we need to give them as few as possible!”. Not only players don’t get to swap weapons, we also don’t get to swap utility skills outside of swapping legends (and even those are limited to two at any given time).

Which means, build diversity for the Revenant is incredibly, massively low.

And isn’t that the direction ArenaNet is going for? I wouldn’t be surprised if they just remove two thirds of the announced traits and just claim that each trait line will have only one trait per tier, because, you know, “choices” and all.

I think someone at Anet mentioned in an interview sometime early-mid last year that some 90%+ of players set their utility skills according to their internal data and never changed them. I remember talking to guildies about that when it put out there. So, knowing that it’s no suprise they are moving to dumb things down because to 90% of the playerbase it’s simply not going to matter.

so they are designing this class for lazy kitten players

possibly it isn’t being designed for lazy players. Maybe its being designed… well, to make it easier on the developers for balance purposes.

Which still amounts to the same thing in the end, a character with very little build diversity. I’m just hoping that I’m wrong, and that the only reason they are locked into skills like they are is for testing purposes and the final result will be that they have at least some ability to tweak it.

Test.8734:

Morfedel.4165:

The first thing to note is that the Revenant, clearly, isn’t finished.

Isn’t it interesting that the Revenant is in the exact same state it was in the previous beta, all that time ago? I wonder, did ArenaNet do any work at all on it? I can’t help but wonder if most of the team was busy trying to pick between Dragonhunter and DragonintsertWoWprofessionhere.

Isn’t it interesting that this was a stress test using what was basically the same builds as the previous beta and what was brought to cons, so you can’t see any changes that were made between then and current, internal builds they’re working on?

Angst.

Dead.5829:

Test.8734:

Morfedel.4165:

The first thing to note is that the Revenant, clearly, isn’t finished.

Isn’t it interesting that the Revenant is in the exact same state it was in the previous beta, all that time ago? I wonder, did ArenaNet do any work at all on it? I can’t help but wonder if most of the team was busy trying to pick between Dragonhunter and DragonintsertWoWprofessionhere.

Isn’t it interesting that this was a stress test using what was basically the same builds as the previous beta and what was brought to cons, so you can’t see any changes that were made between then and current, internal builds they’re working on?

Angst.

I agree with you on your comments; I have no problems with limited builds during beta tests. My own concern is that even when they add more legends to channel that it will amount to “select your favorite prebuilts” rather than promoting build diversity.

As I said earlier, this could very well just be an artifact of limiting builds for tests, but even if they come out with more legendaries to channel, if every legendary has a predetermined selection of skills for 6-10, and you only get one weapon set you can use, you will have much less build diversity than other professions.

And I’ll be ecstatic to be proven wrong.

One of the most enigmatic things about customisation is how non-prof skills will fit into the profession. Surely, Anet can’t simply lock them, or else the people who bought the heroic/ deluxe (?) edition for Mistfire Wolf will be mad, amongst other eventual problems. Anet won’t probably create a legend for each racial skill, neither, because not all skills are racial (mistfire worlf and the poison heal skill), and it would probably be too much work for not enough value.

So what will happen? Will Revenants be able to switch their legend skills for racials? Will racial skills replace the slot for one legend, or for both? Will there be some sort of cap of equippable racial skills, in order to preserve each legend’s identity? And if you can swap racial skills with legend skills, will you also be able to have a higher pool of legend utilities to choose from, instead of a pre-set of 3?

What we are missing in the revenant is:

- 3 new legends ( 2 core + 1 elite)
- 3 new trait bars (2 core + 1 elite)
- New weapons combination (probably sword mh/ dagger oh/ melee staff)
- 1 more utility skill in each legend (each set of skills will have 1 healing + 4 utilities + 1 elite)

In concusion, until they’ll show the complete class we should just wait instead of making threads of how an incomplete class has low customization way

Spartacus.9743:

What we are missing in the revenant is:

- 3 new legends ( 2 core + 1 elite)
- 3 new trait bars (2 core + 1 elite)
- New weapons combination (probably sword mh/ dagger oh/ melee staff)
- 1 more utility skill in each legend (each set of skills will have 1 healing + 4 utilities + 1 elite)

In concusion, until they’ll show the complete class we should just wait instead of making threads of how an incomplete class has low customization way

If all the legends follow how the current ones work, taking a legend which defines skills 6-10, then it seems likely that the criticisms of low customization will stand. After all, only one weapon set you can use in combat + a selection of two builds that predetermine skills 6-10 isn’t anywhere near the customization of any other class in the game.

Has it been indicated anywhere that the Revenant elite is getting a new legend? Or this that just an expectation?

It has been stated previously by ANet that Revenants will have roughly as many utility skills as other professions, 20 skills (not counting heals or elite skills). If we are expecting 4-5 legends, this suggests 4-5 utility skills per legend.