Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

And if the price for mystic coins was 1 silver, would you still be as adamant as you are now that there is a problem that needs to be addressed?

Obviously, the change to supply/demand ratio that caused the increase in price made the problem much more visible and troublesome than it was before. So yeah, the situation that caused the problem should be resolved anyway, regardless of the current price of the coins.
Of course, if they were cheaper, the problem wouldn’t be as pressing and likely less people would ask for immediate fix, but now that we know that the underlying system is broken, the fix is needed anyway.

The only difference being the demand with supply untouched which the OP is strictly speaking about supply.

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

And if the price for mystic coins was 1 silver, would you still be as adamant as you are now that there is a problem that needs to be addressed?

Obviously, the change to supply/demand ratio that caused the increase in price made the problem much more visible and troublesome than it was before. So yeah, the situation that caused the problem should be resolved anyway, regardless of the current price of the coins.
Of course, if they were cheaper, the problem wouldn’t be as pressing and likely less people would ask for immediate fix, but now that we know that the underlying system is broken, the fix is needed anyway.

The only difference being the demand with supply untouched which the OP is strictly speaking about supply.

First, the daily changes decreased the supply. But that’s besides the point. What is important is that, since the supply is set and cannot be increased (it’s impossible to farm for coins), any new item requiring MCs to craft that Anet might introduce (like a new legendary) is going to increase demand and cause MC’s price to go higher. It’s a flawed design.

Basically, by using this design, Anet has put themselves into a difficult situation – they cannot introduce new recipes/sinks involving MCs without disrupting their market. It’s simply impossible for market suppliers to compensate for increased demand. And the market can adjust only in one way – by increasing the price on MCs. There’s no mechanism that might allow for the coin price to go down.

They have obviously realized this already, because they tried to introduce a new source (leyline anomaly events). Unfortunately it was a mass zerg event, that happened to be a real pain in the neck, so noone is doing it now. Thus that source became purely theoretical – in practice, it might as well not exist.

So, current demand doesn’t matter, as it can only go up with each new recipe. What matters is that the supply is set and cannot follow suit.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

And if the price for mystic coins was 1 silver, would you still be as adamant as you are now that there is a problem that needs to be addressed?

Obviously, the change to supply/demand ratio that caused the increase in price made the problem much more visible and troublesome than it was before. So yeah, the situation that caused the problem should be resolved anyway, regardless of the current price of the coins.
Of course, if they were cheaper, the problem wouldn’t be as pressing and likely less people would ask for immediate fix, but now that we know that the underlying system is broken, the fix is needed anyway.

The only difference being the demand with supply untouched which the OP is strictly speaking about supply.

First, the daily changes decreased the supply. But that’s besides the point. What is important is that, since the supply is set and cannot be increased (it’s impossible to farm for coins), any new item requiring MCs to craft that Anet might introduce (like a new legendary) is going to increase demand and cause MC’s price to go higher. It’s a flawed design.

Basically, by using this design, Anet has put themselves into a difficult situation – they cannot introduce new recipes/sinks involving MCs without disrupting their market. It’s simply impossible for market suppliers to compensate for increased demand. And the market can adjust only in one way – by increasing the price on MCs. There’s no mechanism that might allow for the coin price to go down.

They have obviously realized this already, because they tried to introduce a new source (leyline anomaly events). Unfortunately it was a mass zerg event, that happened to be a real pain in the neck, so noone is doing it now. Thus that source became purely theoretical – in practice, it might as well not exist.

So, current demand doesn’t matter, as it can only go up with each new recipe. What matters is that the supply is set and cannot follow suit.

The amount of mystic coins that a player can earn remaining unchanged. Players can earn 20 mystic coins every 28 days as well as one per day. Actually, they can earn more when the daily is available. Players also now have reward tracks where they can get mystic clovers as well as the 7 they can get from the chest on the 28th day. This reduces the number of coins that they need.

Did you complain at launch that the coins were unable to be farmed? Did you even have a problem with that? There weren’t any complaints because the price was at about a silver.

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

And if the price for mystic coins was 1 silver, would you still be as adamant as you are now that there is a problem that needs to be addressed?

Obviously, the change to supply/demand ratio that caused the increase in price made the problem much more visible and troublesome than it was before. So yeah, the situation that caused the problem should be resolved anyway, regardless of the current price of the coins.
Of course, if they were cheaper, the problem wouldn’t be as pressing and likely less people would ask for immediate fix, but now that we know that the underlying system is broken, the fix is needed anyway.

The only difference being the demand with supply untouched which the OP is strictly speaking about supply.

First, the daily changes decreased the supply. But that’s besides the point. What is important is that, since the supply is set and cannot be increased (it’s impossible to farm for coins), any new item requiring MCs to craft that Anet might introduce (like a new legendary) is going to increase demand and cause MC’s price to go higher. It’s a flawed design.

Basically, by using this design, Anet has put themselves into a difficult situation – they cannot introduce new recipes/sinks involving MCs without disrupting their market. It’s simply impossible for market suppliers to compensate for increased demand. And the market can adjust only in one way – by increasing the price on MCs. There’s no mechanism that might allow for the coin price to go down.

They have obviously realized this already, because they tried to introduce a new source (leyline anomaly events). Unfortunately it was a mass zerg event, that happened to be a real pain in the neck, so noone is doing it now. Thus that source became purely theoretical – in practice, it might as well not exist.

So, current demand doesn’t matter, as it can only go up with each new recipe. What matters is that the supply is set and cannot follow suit.

The amount of mystic coins that a player can earn remaining unchanged. Players can earn 20 mystic coins every 28 days as well as one per day. Actually, they can earn more when the daily is available. Players also now have reward tracks where they can get mystic clovers as well as the 7 they can get from the chest on the 28th day. This reduces the number of coins that they need.

Did you complain at launch that the coins were unable to be farmed? Did you even have a problem with that? There weren’t any complaints because the price was at about a silver.

Ley Line Anomaly event was added like 8 months or so after HoT dropped, so no, for most of a year the amount of MC that one could get monthly was severely reduced over what it used to be despite a demand that was far higher than ever.

And you still have not yet addressed the issue that the anomaly event is a group event that very few people do anymore. Making it much more difficult to complete than it was when it came out.

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

And if the price for mystic coins was 1 silver, would you still be as adamant as you are now that there is a problem that needs to be addressed?

Obviously, the change to supply/demand ratio that caused the increase in price made the problem much more visible and troublesome than it was before. So yeah, the situation that caused the problem should be resolved anyway, regardless of the current price of the coins.
Of course, if they were cheaper, the problem wouldn’t be as pressing and likely less people would ask for immediate fix, but now that we know that the underlying system is broken, the fix is needed anyway.

The only difference being the demand with supply untouched which the OP is strictly speaking about supply.

First, the daily changes decreased the supply. But that’s besides the point. What is important is that, since the supply is set and cannot be increased (it’s impossible to farm for coins), any new item requiring MCs to craft that Anet might introduce (like a new legendary) is going to increase demand and cause MC’s price to go higher. It’s a flawed design.

Basically, by using this design, Anet has put themselves into a difficult situation – they cannot introduce new recipes/sinks involving MCs without disrupting their market. It’s simply impossible for market suppliers to compensate for increased demand. And the market can adjust only in one way – by increasing the price on MCs. There’s no mechanism that might allow for the coin price to go down.

They have obviously realized this already, because they tried to introduce a new source (leyline anomaly events). Unfortunately it was a mass zerg event, that happened to be a real pain in the neck, so noone is doing it now. Thus that source became purely theoretical – in practice, it might as well not exist.

So, current demand doesn’t matter, as it can only go up with each new recipe. What matters is that the supply is set and cannot follow suit.

The amount of mystic coins that a player can earn remaining unchanged. Players can earn 20 mystic coins every 28 days as well as one per day. Actually, they can earn more when the daily is available. Players also now have reward tracks where they can get mystic clovers as well as the 7 they can get from the chest on the 28th day. This reduces the number of coins that they need.

Did you complain at launch that the coins were unable to be farmed? Did you even have a problem with that? There weren’t any complaints because the price was at about a silver.

Ley Line Anomaly event was added like 8 months or so after HoT dropped, so no, for most of a year the amount of MC that one could get monthly was severely reduced over what it used to be despite a demand that was far higher than ever.

And you still have not yet addressed the issue that the anomaly event is a group event that very few people do anymore. Making it much more difficult to complete than it was when it came out.

Well if people really felt that mystic coins were an issue, they’d do the event. Just because people choose not to do it, doesn’t dismiss it as a source for coins.

Ayrilana.1396:

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

And if the price for mystic coins was 1 silver, would you still be as adamant as you are now that there is a problem that needs to be addressed?

Obviously, the change to supply/demand ratio that caused the increase in price made the problem much more visible and troublesome than it was before. So yeah, the situation that caused the problem should be resolved anyway, regardless of the current price of the coins.
Of course, if they were cheaper, the problem wouldn’t be as pressing and likely less people would ask for immediate fix, but now that we know that the underlying system is broken, the fix is needed anyway.

The only difference being the demand with supply untouched which the OP is strictly speaking about supply.

First, the daily changes decreased the supply. But that’s besides the point. What is important is that, since the supply is set and cannot be increased (it’s impossible to farm for coins), any new item requiring MCs to craft that Anet might introduce (like a new legendary) is going to increase demand and cause MC’s price to go higher. It’s a flawed design.

Basically, by using this design, Anet has put themselves into a difficult situation – they cannot introduce new recipes/sinks involving MCs without disrupting their market. It’s simply impossible for market suppliers to compensate for increased demand. And the market can adjust only in one way – by increasing the price on MCs. There’s no mechanism that might allow for the coin price to go down.

They have obviously realized this already, because they tried to introduce a new source (leyline anomaly events). Unfortunately it was a mass zerg event, that happened to be a real pain in the neck, so noone is doing it now. Thus that source became purely theoretical – in practice, it might as well not exist.

So, current demand doesn’t matter, as it can only go up with each new recipe. What matters is that the supply is set and cannot follow suit.

The amount of mystic coins that a player can earn remaining unchanged. Players can earn 20 mystic coins every 28 days as well as one per day. Actually, they can earn more when the daily is available. Players also now have reward tracks where they can get mystic clovers as well as the 7 they can get from the chest on the 28th day. This reduces the number of coins that they need.

Did you complain at launch that the coins were unable to be farmed? Did you even have a problem with that? There weren’t any complaints because the price was at about a silver.

Ley Line Anomaly event was added like 8 months or so after HoT dropped, so no, for most of a year the amount of MC that one could get monthly was severely reduced over what it used to be despite a demand that was far higher than ever.

And you still have not yet addressed the issue that the anomaly event is a group event that very few people do anymore. Making it much more difficult to complete than it was when it came out.

Well if people really felt that mystic coins were an issue, they’d do the event. Just because people choose not to do it, doesn’t dismiss it as a source for coins.

Depending on the numbers required for the event and megaservers, there may be people who want to do the event but can’t complete it successfully.

Seera.5916:

Ayrilana.1396:

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

And if the price for mystic coins was 1 silver, would you still be as adamant as you are now that there is a problem that needs to be addressed?

Obviously, the change to supply/demand ratio that caused the increase in price made the problem much more visible and troublesome than it was before. So yeah, the situation that caused the problem should be resolved anyway, regardless of the current price of the coins.
Of course, if they were cheaper, the problem wouldn’t be as pressing and likely less people would ask for immediate fix, but now that we know that the underlying system is broken, the fix is needed anyway.

The only difference being the demand with supply untouched which the OP is strictly speaking about supply.

First, the daily changes decreased the supply. But that’s besides the point. What is important is that, since the supply is set and cannot be increased (it’s impossible to farm for coins), any new item requiring MCs to craft that Anet might introduce (like a new legendary) is going to increase demand and cause MC’s price to go higher. It’s a flawed design.

Basically, by using this design, Anet has put themselves into a difficult situation – they cannot introduce new recipes/sinks involving MCs without disrupting their market. It’s simply impossible for market suppliers to compensate for increased demand. And the market can adjust only in one way – by increasing the price on MCs. There’s no mechanism that might allow for the coin price to go down.

They have obviously realized this already, because they tried to introduce a new source (leyline anomaly events). Unfortunately it was a mass zerg event, that happened to be a real pain in the neck, so noone is doing it now. Thus that source became purely theoretical – in practice, it might as well not exist.

So, current demand doesn’t matter, as it can only go up with each new recipe. What matters is that the supply is set and cannot follow suit.

The amount of mystic coins that a player can earn remaining unchanged. Players can earn 20 mystic coins every 28 days as well as one per day. Actually, they can earn more when the daily is available. Players also now have reward tracks where they can get mystic clovers as well as the 7 they can get from the chest on the 28th day. This reduces the number of coins that they need.

Did you complain at launch that the coins were unable to be farmed? Did you even have a problem with that? There weren’t any complaints because the price was at about a silver.

Ley Line Anomaly event was added like 8 months or so after HoT dropped, so no, for most of a year the amount of MC that one could get monthly was severely reduced over what it used to be despite a demand that was far higher than ever.

And you still have not yet addressed the issue that the anomaly event is a group event that very few people do anymore. Making it much more difficult to complete than it was when it came out.

Well if people really felt that mystic coins were an issue, they’d do the event. Just because people choose not to do it, doesn’t dismiss it as a source for coins.

Depending on the numbers required for the event and megaservers, there may be people who want to do the event but can’t complete it successfully.

Luckily we have a LFG system in this game that allows for people to come together for specific things.

Ayrilana.1396:

The amount of mystic coins that a player can earn remaining unchanged.

Nope. The change to dailies and removal of monthlies decreased it. Theoretically leyline event might have balanced it out, but in practice it’s just not doable currently. Definitely not on a regular basis.

Ayrilana.1396:

Luckily we have a LFG system in this game that allows for people to come together for specific things.

Unluckily that event was so messed up even big zergs often failed. That (and the time it took) was the reason why there’s not enough people today to do it. And for the effort and number of people it takes, most people _willing _to put that effort would rather go do multiloot.
Which of course aggravates the problem even more, but on personal level is a reasonable approach.
(so, in conclusion, Anet just attached the new supply of MCs to a wrong event).

Also, again, it doesn’t matter. The supply is static, it cannot get any higher without Anet’s direct intervention. Thus, any increase to demand (which we do know is something that will happen again and again – at the very least there are a number of new legendaries on the way) can’t not make even bigger mess at some point in the future.

Ayrilana.1396:

Did you complain at launch that the coins were unable to be farmed? Did you even have a problem with that? There weren’t any complaints because the price was at about a silver.

You’re right, that because the price was relatively low, most people didn’t look too closely and thus were unaware that the underlying system was broken and was certain to become a problem at some point in the future. That didn’t mean it wasn’t broken then, only that it didn’t cause any damage yet.

Now however, we do know that it was faulty to begin with.

If there is an additional source for MC but it cannot serve that function due to an insufficiency of players doing the event, is that perhaps an indication that the player demand isnt outstripping the alternate supply or that the price of MC is not as much of a problem to most players as is being argued here.

Also, adding new legendaries may be increasing demand in one sense but players completing old legendaries, or other MC skins, decreases it.

Ayrilana.1396:

Well if people really felt that mystic coins were an issue, they’d do the event. Just because people choose not to do it, doesn’t dismiss it as a source for coins.

Sadly, we are in a conversation in which that will be dismissed, as will any other suggestion that the price is not “too high”, that the market is healthy, or anything else that disagrees with the axiom that the prices are (a) too high, and (b) this is the fault of the inability to farm them.

Thankfully ANet show no inclination to give in to this irrational complaining, and to continue to sensibly manage the economy, so that’s all fine…

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Ayrilana.1396:

Well if people really felt that mystic coins were an issue, they’d do the event. Just because people choose not to do it, doesn’t dismiss it as a source for coins.

Sadly, we are in a conversation in which that will be dismissed, as will any other suggestion that the price is not “too high”, that the market is healthy, or anything else that disagrees with the axiom that the prices are (a) too high, and (b) this is the fault of the inability to farm them.

Thankfully ANet show no inclination to give in to this irrational complaining, and to continue to sensibly manage the economy, so that’s all fine…

If by "show no inclination to give in to this “irrational complaining” you mean that ANet realizes there is a problem which is why they have slowly been adding new sources of MC then you are correct. The mere fact that new sources have been added recently though shows that Anet is aware of the underlying issue with MC.

I think the high price of Mystic Coins is a problem inasmuch as it is causing the same issue last time that caused ANet to implement the salvageable Ectos update; the lack of it is proving a big enough obstacle that it is turning players away from end-game sinks. The difference here is that Mystic Coins aren’t used for as many uses as Crystalline Dust is, and the high price of Coins may be seen as beneficial on ANet’s part as they help to suck out gold from the economy during trades.

Fun fact: someone tried to game the market, by purchasing all the sell offers until coins were available at the 5g-per mark.

The market recovered and the price has returned to 1g buy, 1g30s sell, and looks to be recovering further.

Which is to say: the 1g-pre price is pretty much what the market is interested in, and people are absolutely willing to sell enough coins at that price to keep the market operating comfortably.

Come back when there are less than 100 coins on the market, or the price persists much higher than “two coins a day from the daily completion gold reward” and you might find more traction for complaints about them.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Fun fact: someone tried to game the market, by purchasing all the sell offers until coins were available at the 5g-per mark.

The market recovered and the price has returned to 1g buy, 1g30s sell, and looks to be recovering further.

Which is to say: the 1g-pre price is pretty much what the market is interested in, and people are absolutely willing to sell enough coins at that price to keep the market operating comfortably.

Come back when there are less than 100 coins on the market, or the price persists much higher than “two coins a day from the daily completion gold reward” and you might find more traction for complaints about them.

The problem is with how you acquire new MC. Besides part of JS staying out of the economy is because he wanted players to stop with this notion that any mat has a specific price that it should return to, so when you say that the players have decided that MC need to be 1g you are undermining your own argument, considering that is exactly what JS does not want to happen.

Blame the flippers who horde entire bank inventories with Mystic Coins to sell for higher.

Only Anet can resolve something like that. Need more ways to obtain them.

OriOri.8724:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Fun fact: someone tried to game the market, by purchasing all the sell offers until coins were available at the 5g-per mark.

The market recovered and the price has returned to 1g buy, 1g30s sell, and looks to be recovering further.

Which is to say: the 1g-pre price is pretty much what the market is interested in, and people are absolutely willing to sell enough coins at that price to keep the market operating comfortably.

Come back when there are less than 100 coins on the market, or the price persists much higher than “two coins a day from the daily completion gold reward” and you might find more traction for complaints about them.

The problem is with how you acquire new MC. Besides part of JS staying out of the economy is because he wanted players to stop with this notion that any mat has a specific price that it should return to, so when you say that the players have decided that MC need to be 1g you are undermining your own argument, considering that is exactly what JS does not want to happen.

I think you’ve confused two ideas, because the jargon is similar.

The short version is that the market recovered because the economic supply is a lot higher than a lot of people think. The TP supply might be low (and is “easily” bought out as seen from recent events), but that doesn’t mean the net supply available to us is low (as can be seen from the recovery).

SlippyCheeze is referring to the transient preference for a price point, whereas Smith stated a concern about price points that aren’t transient, even if there are drastic changes in the economic supply. Smith’s example was ecto: AB/ML boosted the actual supply enormously and it took “too long” for the market to react. In contrast, the actual supply of m-coins was barely changed the last 24 hours; only the TP supply was affected.

Incidentally, Mystic Coins aren’t unique as far as this goes. For a long time, I was tracking prices on masterwork and rare dyes. About once a month, someone (or several someones) would buy out most of the supply of a 3-4 dyes and slowly try to relist at a much much higher price point. In every case, the price dropped dramatically within 2-48 hours, returning to an equilibrium that was roughly the same (sometimes a bit higher, rarely a bit lower).

People have preferences about what they are willing to pay (or to accept for their items) and the markets adjust quickly. Economists don’t worry when those adjustments happen; they worry when they don’t.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

OriOri.8724:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Fun fact: someone tried to game the market, by purchasing all the sell offers until coins were available at the 5g-per mark.

The market recovered and the price has returned to 1g buy, 1g30s sell, and looks to be recovering further.

Which is to say: the 1g-pre price is pretty much what the market is interested in, and people are absolutely willing to sell enough coins at that price to keep the market operating comfortably.

Come back when there are less than 100 coins on the market, or the price persists much higher than “two coins a day from the daily completion gold reward” and you might find more traction for complaints about them.

The problem is with how you acquire new MC. Besides part of JS staying out of the economy is because he wanted players to stop with this notion that any mat has a specific price that it should return to, so when you say that the players have decided that MC need to be 1g you are undermining your own argument, considering that is exactly what JS does not want to happen.

I think you’ve confused two ideas, because the jargon is similar.

The short version is that the market recovered because the economic supply is a lot higher than a lot of people think. The TP supply might be low (and is “easily” bought out as seen from recent events), but that doesn’t mean the net supply available to us is low (as can be seen from the recovery).

SlippyCheeze is referring to the transient preference for a price point, whereas Smith stated a concern about price points that aren’t transient, even if there are drastic changes in the economic supply. Smith’s example was ecto: AB/ML boosted the actual supply enormously and it took “too long” for the market to react. In contrast, the actual supply of m-coins was barely changed the last 24 hours; only the TP supply was affected.

---

Incidentally, Mystic Coins aren’t unique as far as this goes. For a long time, I was tracking prices on masterwork and rare dyes. About once a month, someone (or several someones) would buy out most of the supply of a 3-4 dyes and slowly try to relist at a much much higher price point. In every case, the price dropped dramatically within 2-48 hours, returning to an equilibrium that was roughly the same (sometimes a bit higher, rarely a bit lower).

Dyes are not the same. There’s no set supply limit on them, so if their price increases, people will start introducing more to the market. Just like most other resources.
But very unlike MCs.
Btw, we’re likely now just running on hidden resources – MCs hoarded in player banks. Basically, the problem is softened due to a buffer created during past 4 years of the game. That buffer is going to empty at some point, however. And, barring Anet’s intervention, it’s not going to be pretty.

Doggie.3184:

Blame the flippers who horde entire bank inventories with Mystic Coins to sell for higher.

Only Anet can resolve something like that. Need more ways to obtain them.

Yep. All 2 of them.

Just saw this on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5nbdxj/someone_just_bought_10k_mystic_coins_price_is/dcb764k/?context=1000

30,000 mystic coins were suddenly purchased, pushing the price to over 2g each. It was only 2 players who purchased them, as mentioned by a dev.

Though at the time of writing, it looks like the price of mystic coins is under 1g.

No idea what’s going on, other than the devs are keeping any eye on things. I’m still hopeful they do something eventually to make getting MC a little easier. Still waiting to finish my NIghtfury shoulder skin. I’m at around 70 MC now. I’ll finish it when MC isn’t so expensive, or I eventually get enough from daily log in rewards, whichever comes first LOL.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19976-mystic-coin

Oh geez. I’m not sure what to make of this (or really how to even read the graph). With it set to day, at 1:40am on Jan. 11 the supply was at over 15k, then at about 1:50am it suddenly spiked to over 4g with the supply dropping to below 1,000 available.

Reminds me of the first day of Wintersday, Dec. 13, 2016, when the supply suddenly went from over 20k to under 6k or so.

If it really is only a couple players doing this, I do hope the devs really are “keeping an eye on things”.

Man I know JS gets plenty of hate from some people but I do wish he would speak up more often. Even if its just to say

“We are aware that a growing amount of players are upset with X in the economy and at this time we (insert either “think” or “don’t think”) that market is ok."

Preferably with numbers/reasons

Astralporing.1957:

Dyes are not the same. There’s no set supply limit on them, so if their price increases, people will start introducing more to the market. Just like most other resources.
But very unlike MCs.
Btw, we’re likely now just running on hidden resources – MCs hoarded in player banks. Basically, the problem is softened due to a buffer created during past 4 years of the game. That buffer is going to empty at some point, however. And, barring Anet’s intervention, it’s not going to be pretty.

There’s a different limit on dyes, but there are a huge variety of dyes. Regardless, you missed the point: attempts to manipulate the price fail because the “hidden resources” are far bigger than we imagine from what we see on the TP.

ANet (including Smith) have said there’s a huge supply not on the market. I’m not sure why you think it’s likely we’re running low on them.

OriOri.8724:

Man I know JS gets plenty of hate from some people but I do wish he would speak up more often. Even if its just to say

“We are aware that a growing amount of players are upset with X in the economy and at this time we (insert either “think” or “don’t think”) that market is ok."

Preferably with numbers/reasons

But the market is very healthy as seen by its rapid return to equilibrium. Why make a statement that may change how it’s currently acting (i.e. controlled by the players, not Anet)?

And where did “growing” come from and how would that be measured? After my selling of Wintersday items, I’m now far richer than I expected to be, and I’m now looking at the 1g price and thinking of buying. How would Anet know that I’d be part of the “shrinking” group?

Late night addendum: If a growing number of players were unhappy, wouldn’t the first sign of that be a price drop?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

ANet (including Smith) have said there’s a huge supply not on the market. I’m not sure why you think it’s likely we’re running low on them.

I didn’t say we’re running low now. I said we’re going to run low eventually.
We’re not running on current supply, but on reserves. Reserves do not last unless they can be resupplied at a sufficient rate. And, in case of MCs, we (the players) lack any ability to influence that rate, because their supply sources are tighly controlled and limited.

Greener.6204:

Late night addendum: If a growing number of players were unhappy, wouldn’t the first sign of that be a price drop?

Not as long as even a small number of players have the gold to buy those MCs. Remember, 20+ players doing legendaries could eat the whole current supply on TP. That’s not many players at all. This doesn’t mean that those players are happy, by the way.
Besides, a lot of the supply on market comes from the hoarded resources of a limited number of traders. If the price started to drop, some of them would stop selling, and the supply would drop. Which would cause price spike.

Astralporing.1957:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

ANet (including Smith) have said there’s a huge supply not on the market. I’m not sure why you think it’s likely we’re running low on them.

I didn’t say we’re running low now. I said we’re going to run low eventually.
We’re not running on current supply, but on reserves. Reserves do not last unless they can be resupplied at a sufficient rate. And, in case of MCs, we (the players) lack any ability to influence that rate, because their supply sources are tighly controlled and limited.

Greener.6204:

Late night addendum: If a growing number of players were unhappy, wouldn’t the first sign of that be a price drop?

Not as long as even a small number of players have the gold to buy those MCs. Remember, 20+ players doing legendaries could eat the whole current supply on TP. That’s not many players at all. This doesn’t mean that those players are happy, by the way.
Besides, a lot of the supply on market comes from the hoarded resources of a limited number of traders. If the price started to drop, some of them would stop selling, and the supply would drop. Which would cause price spike.

The current supply doesn’t tell the whole story though as it’s a changing number as coins are sold and the trading post supply is replenished.

For example, the last 24 hours: https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/19976-Mystic-Coin
Supply: 17,433
Sold to sell orders: 14,998
Bought by buy orders: 15,988
Total: 48,419

And that’s each day. 20 people with Legendaries might take the current supply but it would fill back up again.

Greener.6204:

OriOri.8724:

Man I know JS gets plenty of hate from some people but I do wish he would speak up more often. Even if its just to say

“We are aware that a growing amount of players are upset with X in the economy and at this time we (insert either “think” or “don’t think”) that market is ok."

Preferably with numbers/reasons

But the market is very healthy as seen by its rapid return to equilibrium. Why make a statement that may change how it’s currently acting (i.e. controlled by the players, not Anet)?

And where did “growing” come from and how would that be measured? After my selling of Wintersday items, I’m now far richer than I expected to be, and I’m now looking at the 1g price and thinking of buying. How would Anet know that I’d be part of the “shrinking” group?

Late night addendum: If a growing number of players were unhappy, wouldn’t the first sign of that be a price drop?

There are lots of players that are not happy with how MC are generated, and this thread is evidence that some players also feel that the MC market is not great either. JS should maek a statement if for no other reason than because he knows people are concerned/upset about.

As for the growing part, yes it is slightly objective on my part. Yet these types of threads keep popping up on Reddit, everytime I see MC brought up in game I see fewer people that like how they are generated vs how they are consumed and more people that are upset with that.

If his stance hasn’t changed from the last time he spoke about it, I don’t see the point in him posting again just to repeat himself.

Astralporing.1957:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

ANet (including Smith) have said there’s a huge supply not on the market. I’m not sure why you think it’s likely we’re running low on them.

I didn’t say we’re running low now. I said we’re going to run low eventually.
We’re not running on current supply, but on reserves. Reserves do not last unless they can be resupplied at a sufficient rate. And, in case of MCs, we (the players) lack any ability to influence that rate, because their supply sources are tighly controlled and limited.

Sure, and eventually Mr Smith, or other parts of ANet, may have to do something. If, and only if, you are right in your assessment that we are running on a large reserve being slowly sold by players.

I posit that, in fact, we are running on what is essentially a stable inflow vs outflow, as the number of legendaries and other consumers of MCs is not the issue, but rather, player demand for those items is – and the number of players motivated enough to build a legendary is smaller than the number of players receiving mystic coins each month through login rewards.

Time will prove one of us right, but that is the future. Reacting now to solve a ‘maybe’ isn’t the best strategy, especially when the evidence we have at hand is that right now the market is healthy enough to absorb a significant effort to game it, through the bulk purchase of many coins.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Astralporing.1957:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

ANet (including Smith) have said there’s a huge supply not on the market. I’m not sure why you think it’s likely we’re running low on them.

I didn’t say we’re running low now. I said we’re going to run low eventually.
We’re not running on current supply, but on reserves. Reserves do not last unless they can be resupplied at a sufficient rate. And, in case of MCs, we (the players) lack any ability to influence that rate, because their supply sources are tighly controlled and limited.

Sure, and eventually Mr Smith, or other parts of ANet, may have to do something. If, and only if, you are right in your assessment that we are running on a large reserve being slowly sold by players.

I posit that, in fact, we are running on what is essentially a stable inflow vs outflow, as the number of legendaries and other consumers of MCs is not the issue, but rather, player demand for those items is – and the number of players motivated enough to build a legendary is smaller than the number of players receiving mystic coins each month through login rewards.

Time will prove one of us right, but that is the future. Reacting now to solve a ‘maybe’ isn’t the best strategy, especially when the evidence we have at hand is that right now the market is healthy enough to absorb a significant effort to game it, through the bulk purchase of many coins.

I disagree that this is just a “maybe” like you insist. ANet has stealthily acknowledged that the rate of acquisition of new MC into the game was too low for a long time, that’s why they have slowly been introducing more ways to obtain them. Even as recently as the Nightmare Fractal release they were introduing new ways to acquire MC, so obviously ANet agreed on at least some level that the rate of acquisition of MC versus how many are needed for crafting individual skins is off. Another one or two new trickles like that may very well be enough, maybe ANet thinks that right now its enough. But they have added these new sources recently, so they do agree at least in part that acquisition vs spending MC was off.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

ANet (including Smith) have said there’s a huge supply not on the market. I’m not sure why you think it’s likely we’re running low on them.

Astralporing.1957:

I didn’t say we’re running low now. I said we’re going to run low eventually.

And yet, so far, we don’t seem to be running low after a year of people saying we are. When is this “eventually”?

Astralporing.1957:

We’re not running on current supply, but on reserves. Reserves do not last unless they can be resupplied at a sufficient rate. And, in case of MCs, we (the players) lack any ability to influence that rate, because their supply sources are tighly controlled and limited.

The individual’s sources might be tightly controlled; the economy’s sources are vast. Remember: only some people use mystic coins while every play that logs in daily gets at least 20 every 28 days.

What fraction of players do you think use any mystic coins? Compare that to the fraction that logon daily. It’s simple enough to see how the reserves might even be growing, depending on the relative sizes of those populations.

Again, Smith says the reserves are huge and seems unconcerned that they might run out anytime soon. I’m willing to reconsider whether that’s a reasonable position, if presented with evidence or some equally plausible numerical estimates. So far, I’ve just seen arguments based on intuition.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

What fraction of players do you think use any mystic coins? Compare that to the fraction that logon daily.

Most people that are active enough to login daily (with the possible exception of alt accounts) will most likely consume at least part of their coins. Many people that aren’t invested in game enough to ever need MCs won’t be active enough to login daily, and also won’t care enough to sell their coins on tp (so reserves generated by them can safely be ignored).

I looked through the things MC’s could be used for and made a handful. Now I sell any over 500 reserved for “someday.” Maybe that’ll be a legendary, but I have no plans for one right now. I sold 99 MC’s last night.

As a seller, I’m good with the price.

OriOri.8724:

I disagree that this is just a “maybe” like you insist. ANet has stealthily acknowledged that the rate of acquisition of new MC into the game was too low for a long time, that’s why they have slowly been introducing more ways to obtain them. Even as recently as the Nightmare Fractal release they were introduing new ways to acquire MC, so obviously ANet agreed on at least some level that the rate of acquisition of MC versus how many are needed for crafting individual skins is off. Another one or two new trickles like that may very well be enough, maybe ANet thinks that right now its enough. But they have added these new sources recently, so they do agree at least in part that acquisition vs spending MC was off.

It’s pretty clear from our exchanges that we disagree.

That is a good point about the rate of inflow changes, though. I don’t think it significantly changes my view, but I’ll think further about it.

If it does, though, I feel like it also bumps your view, in the sense that ANet are clearly doing something about the inflow rate already.

Astralporing.1957:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

What fraction of players do you think use any mystic coins? Compare that to the fraction that logon daily.

Most people that are active enough to login daily (with the possible exception of alt accounts) will most likely consume at least part of their coins. Many people that aren’t invested in game enough to ever need MCs won’t be active enough to login daily, and also won’t care enough to sell their coins on tp (so reserves generated by them can safely be ignored).

Sure thing … and that’s where we are now … a market that has stabilized more or less, to a range of prices for a mat. Didn’t Anet say that’s pretty much how they want the economy to work? I think so. See, my problem with this whole discussion is that people don’t realize that individual mat prices are not really Anet’s interest, as long as they achieve certain behaviours. Market stability is one of those. There is really no argument for ‘doing something’ about MC’s when they behave like Anet want’s them too. I have no doubt Anet will do something … and it will still be something that maintains that stability. They don’t set targets for mat prices.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

OriOri.8724:

I disagree that this is just a “maybe” like you insist. ANet has stealthily acknowledged that the rate of acquisition of new MC into the game was too low for a long time, that’s why they have slowly been introducing more ways to obtain them. Even as recently as the Nightmare Fractal release they were introduing new ways to acquire MC, so obviously ANet agreed on at least some level that the rate of acquisition of MC versus how many are needed for crafting individual skins is off. Another one or two new trickles like that may very well be enough, maybe ANet thinks that right now its enough. But they have added these new sources recently, so they do agree at least in part that acquisition vs spending MC was off.

It’s pretty clear from our exchanges that we disagree.

That is a good point about the rate of inflow changes, though. I don’t think it significantly changes my view, but I’ll think further about it.

If it does, though, I feel like it also bumps your view, in the sense that ANet are clearly doing something about the inflow rate already.

You are correct, the recent additions of new ways to generate MC are making this less of a problem in the game. I think its obvious to everyone in this thread that I still don’t think sources of MC are quite there, but soon they will be. Just 1 or 2 more small faucets that are slightly more available than lvl 100 challenge mote fractal. Though, since ANet did make the new sink fairly hard to get to (what with the needing the AR and needing to be pretty good at your class and have a competent group to clear the challenge mote) they may be of the opinion that this represents all of the sources needed to make incoming MC supply more elastic.

Astralporing.1957:

Most people that are active enough to login daily (with the possible exception of alt accounts) will most likely consume at least part of their coins.

I don’t think that is true at all. Many players login every day but have no intention or ambition of crafting a legendary, either because of the cost or the effort (or maybe because of the annoying sound fx!)

Those players just get the daily reward and deposit it just like any other crafting material. MCs will only come to their attention when they overflow their storage, or when they read threads like this.

DoctorDing.5890:

Astralporing.1957:

Most people that are active enough to login daily (with the possible exception of alt accounts) will most likely consume at least part of their coins.

I don’t think that is true at all. Many players login every day but have no intention or ambition of crafting a legendary, either because of the cost or the effort (or maybe because of the annoying sound fx!)

Those players just get the daily reward and deposit it just like any other crafting material. MCs will only come to their attention when they overflow their storage, or when they read threads like this.

Mystic Coins are used for a lot more things than legendary. They’re not even a big part of crafting a legendary.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Equipment
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Recipe_sheets
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Other

Haishao.6851:

DoctorDing.5890:

Astralporing.1957:

Most people that are active enough to login daily (with the possible exception of alt accounts) will most likely consume at least part of their coins.

I don’t think that is true at all. Many players login every day but have no intention or ambition of crafting a legendary, either because of the cost or the effort (or maybe because of the annoying sound fx!)

Those players just get the daily reward and deposit it just like any other crafting material. MCs will only come to their attention when they overflow their storage, or when they read threads like this.

Mystic Coins are used for a lot more things than legendary. They’re not even a big part of crafting a legendary.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Equipment
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Recipe_sheets
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Other

Indeed. I log in every day and dont make any of those either.

Ashen.2907:

Haishao.6851:

DoctorDing.5890:

Astralporing.1957:

Most people that are active enough to login daily (with the possible exception of alt accounts) will most likely consume at least part of their coins.

I don’t think that is true at all. Many players login every day but have no intention or ambition of crafting a legendary, either because of the cost or the effort (or maybe because of the annoying sound fx!)

Those players just get the daily reward and deposit it just like any other crafting material. MCs will only come to their attention when they overflow their storage, or when they read threads like this.

Mystic Coins are used for a lot more things than legendary. They’re not even a big part of crafting a legendary.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Equipment
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Recipe_sheets
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Other

Indeed. I log in every day and dont make any of those either.

Good for you.
Astralporing said “most people” for a reason. If most people didn’t use coin they would only cost a few copper, like most things that people do not use. The reason they’re so expensive is because they’re very limited but used for a lot of things.

OriOri.8724:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

OriOri.8724:

I disagree that this is just a “maybe” like you insist. ANet has stealthily acknowledged that the rate of acquisition of new MC into the game was too low for a long time, that’s why they have slowly been introducing more ways to obtain them. Even as recently as the Nightmare Fractal release they were introduing new ways to acquire MC, so obviously ANet agreed on at least some level that the rate of acquisition of MC versus how many are needed for crafting individual skins is off. Another one or two new trickles like that may very well be enough, maybe ANet thinks that right now its enough. But they have added these new sources recently, so they do agree at least in part that acquisition vs spending MC was off.

It’s pretty clear from our exchanges that we disagree.

That is a good point about the rate of inflow changes, though. I don’t think it significantly changes my view, but I’ll think further about it.

If it does, though, I feel like it also bumps your view, in the sense that ANet are clearly doing something about the inflow rate already.

You are correct, the recent additions of new ways to generate MC are making this less of a problem in the game. I think its obvious to everyone in this thread that I still don’t think sources of MC are quite there, but soon they will be. Just 1 or 2 more small faucets that are slightly more available than lvl 100 challenge mote fractal. Though, since ANet did make the new sink fairly hard to get to (what with the needing the AR and needing to be pretty good at your class and have a competent group to clear the challenge mote) they may be of the opinion that this represents all of the sources needed to make incoming MC supply more elastic.

Given that some of the hoarded supply is likely sitting with players looking to make a profit, ANet may not be adding too many sources too quickly to keep from causing a panic in the Mystic Coin market. Not to mention, it will make it harder for them to over correct on the supply side.

Haishao.6851:

Ashen.2907:

Haishao.6851:

DoctorDing.5890:

Astralporing.1957:

Most people that are active enough to login daily (with the possible exception of alt accounts) will most likely consume at least part of their coins.

I don’t think that is true at all. Many players login every day but have no intention or ambition of crafting a legendary, either because of the cost or the effort (or maybe because of the annoying sound fx!)

Those players just get the daily reward and deposit it just like any other crafting material. MCs will only come to their attention when they overflow their storage, or when they read threads like this.

Mystic Coins are used for a lot more things than legendary. They’re not even a big part of crafting a legendary.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Equipment
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Recipe_sheets
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Other

Indeed. I log in every day and dont make any of those either.

Good for you.
Astralporing said “most people” for a reason. If most people didn’t use coin they would only cost a few copper, like most things that people do not use. The reason they’re so expensive is because they’re very limited but used for a lot of things.

Even saying “most people” is an assumption, not a fact. True, anecdotal evidence doesn’t disprove the assertion, but without evidence, people are free to disagree with it.

Haishao.6851:

Ashen.2907:

Haishao.6851:

DoctorDing.5890:

Astralporing.1957:

Most people that are active enough to login daily (with the possible exception of alt accounts) will most likely consume at least part of their coins.

I don’t think that is true at all. Many players login every day but have no intention or ambition of crafting a legendary, either because of the cost or the effort (or maybe because of the annoying sound fx!)

Those players just get the daily reward and deposit it just like any other crafting material. MCs will only come to their attention when they overflow their storage, or when they read threads like this.

Mystic Coins are used for a lot more things than legendary. They’re not even a big part of crafting a legendary.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Equipment
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Recipe_sheets
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Other

Indeed. I log in every day and dont make any of those either.

Good for you.
Astralporing said “most people” for a reason. If most people didn’t use coin they would only cost a few copper, like most things that people do not use. The reason they’re so expensive is because they’re very limited but used for a lot of things.

Correct, he/she did attempt to speak for others who he doesnt know sufficiently to speak for.

Astralporing.1957:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

What fraction of players do you think use any mystic coins? Compare that to the fraction that logon daily.

Most people that are active enough to login daily (with the possible exception of alt accounts) will most likely consume at least part of their coins. Many people that aren’t invested in game enough to ever need MCs won’t be active enough to login daily, and also won’t care enough to sell their coins on tp (so reserves generated by them can safely be ignored).

Most of the people I know that are active enough to login in daily on their main accounts don’t use all the ones they get. Smith cannot ignore the leftover coins that part of the reserves because we don’t know the price point at which folks would sell; it’s still part of the economic supply.

I think a lot of folks in this thread are drastically underestimated the off-market supply of coins (as we, the community, typically do for everything else on the TP) and drastically overestimating the number of people who care about mystic coin-dependent things.

The basic problem with this entire MC argument is this.
I need MCs more than you do , so you should sell all your hoarded MCs on the TP so that I can get them at a cheaper price.

mauried.5608:

The basic problem with this entire MC argument is this.
I need MCs more than you do , so you should sell all your hoarded MCs on the TP so that I can get them at a cheaper price.

Everything that people sell on the TP works like that: I sell the stuff I don’t need to people who are willing to pay me for it because they want it more. A big difference with m-coins is that no one needs them; we just want more shinies. We get plenty for free without doing more than logging on; I’m okay with the idea that we pay someone else for the use of their freebies.

mauried.5608:

The basic problem with this entire MC argument is this.
I need MCs more than you do , so you should sell all your hoarded MCs on the TP so that I can get them at a cheaper price.

Or “Boo hoo! Some players have some coins that they are not using but not selling and I want them I want them I want them and I’m going to call them hoarders”

“You’re selfish because you won’t give me what I want”

Whats the differance in the game of need and want, and whats the differance between need right now , and want right now.
How long can someone put something in their bank before they are deemed to not need it, and therefore MUST sell it on the TP.

mauried.5608:

Whats the differance in the game of need and want, and whats the differance between need right now , and want right now.
How long can someone put something in their bank before they are deemed to not need it, and therefore MUST sell it on the TP.

As a rule of thumb: Once you have more MC than bloodstone dust, you should start to get rid of your excess coins.

Unless you are a lvl 500 chef.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

mauried.5608:

The basic problem with this entire MC argument is this.
I need MCs more than you do , so you should sell all your hoarded MCs on the TP so that I can get them at a cheaper price.

Everything that people sell on the TP works like that: I sell the stuff I don’t need to people who are willing to pay me for it because they want it more. A big difference with m-coins is that no one needs them; we just want more shinies. We get plenty for free without doing more than logging on; I’m okay with the idea that we pay someone else for the use of their freebies.

There’s no such difference. There’s not a single item on the TP that anyone needs. Everything you buy from there is either a luxury or taking a shortcut.

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Everything that people sell on the TP works like that: I sell the stuff I don’t need to people who are willing to pay me for it because they want it more. A big difference with m-coins is that no one needs them; we just want more shinies. We get plenty for free without doing more than logging on; I’m okay with the idea that we pay someone else for the use of their freebies.

Well, let’s see:
1. “A big difference with m-coins is that no one needs them; we just want more shinies”. Try to tell this to a raider working for the Legendary Armor :-)). I bet this Legendary Armor is (almost) the only thing keeping most of the raiders ingame. That means they need the MC. Having plenty of them or not is another story. But they need MC. And to keep them playing, the GAME needs MC.
2. “We get plenty for free without doing more than logging on”. In my opinion this is the main problem. Getting MC for free. And the quantity is at ANet will. In some players case what they got is plenty. In some other players cases, what they got is far from enough. And this is the problem – that ANet cannot estimate the needs for every player. And by keeping the MC under so strict control they don’t give to all the players the ways to have as many MC as needed. If you belong to the unlucky part of the playerbase needing more MC than ANet allows you to have, you have no choice but to buy from TP. And this was the topic of this post: Why to be forced to buy from TP at the artificial prices set-up by ANet?

Don’t tell me the players set-up the prices – it is false. The prices are driven by supply and demand. We know that in this moment the demand is high. And the supply is controlled by ANet. Conclusion? Who set-up the prices?
Alooo! Mr. Smith? What you said about the wrong ANet behavior to set-up the values of the materials on TP?