Guild Wars 2

DevilLordLaser.8619:

What bothers me about this is that many people are being quite terribly rude to folks disappointed that we’re only getting one specialization, much of it founded on the assumption of “well they said we’ll get more later so quit being such a whiny little snot and man up, you Grinch!”

Yes, ArenaNet said we’d get more specializations, eventually. They also said, at the game’s launch, that we’d get more skills eventually, as well as new weapons for our professions. The former has happened precisely twice, with one universal heal nobody uses anymore and a single new profession-specific healing skill, and it’s clear at this point that we’re not getting new weapons because the idea of new weapons has been folded into specializations.

What in the world makes you think we’ll get any new specializations prior to the next expansion in three more years?

For a longtime, enthusiastic player of the original Guild Wars, GW2’s character customization and build creation, to this day, feels incredibly anemic and limiting. Specializations were a HUGE announcement for those players because it was a big boost to the highly constrictive character building system…and then ArenaNet told us that HoT is only shipping with one spec per class “but we’ll put in more later, liek no totez really we will!”

I’m behind this company, I like their ideas and they way they’re actively thinking about what the MMO industry should be trying to do, and I like how responsive they are to their player base, but they have shown me via their actions that they are freaking slow as hell when it comes to profession updates. There’s too much else on their plate.

So yes. Maybe have a little sympathy for the old-school GW1 buildmasters who have never been content with GW2’s preschool-mode character creation system and have furthermore had their hopes dashed that specializations would help alleviate those restrictions? All we want is some real, honest to Gods build customization from our game which used to be, way back when, all about build customization, eh?

I was about to write a long post responding but I don’t have to… ^ this, so much this, 100x this

With almost 3 years in the wait, one just feels not enough. No new race, no new starting zones, possibly no new underwater content, dungeons, fractals, anything other than jungle jungle jungle, and an alternative advancement system that you need if you want to play in the new jungle zones with limited applicability to the whole world, having just one specialization is just not enough. Just not…

and the promise of more to come later isn’t working for me … i just hope they don’t price this expansion at 60 euros cause i’ll be greatly disappointed.

Egg Shennn.6240:

Quells.2498:

I still think the answer is simple. You DO have two specializations, example being a Ranger OR a Druid.

No, that’s incorrect.

Ranger is the base class, not a specialization.

Druid is a specialization, and if what they said is true;
1 specialization per class in HoT.
“you’ll be able to swap from one specialization to another outside of combat”

How do you swap from one specialization to another when there is only one?

Please stop saying the base class is a specialization, because it isn’t.

They should have worded it better so people didn’t get confused, they meant to say “swap back and forth from specialisations to base class” or something, it’ll make more sense once they release more specialisations.

I also have to point out, underwater combat was supposed to be this big awesome thing, pre launch. it flopped, it flopped hard. Personally, I don’t want that to occur again. I like this game, I don’t want to be frustrated because something isn’t right. Is it a slow pace, absolutely, but is it worth at least getting more right than wrong, at this point I have to say yes.

A Massive Headache.1879:

I also have to point out, underwater combat was supposed to be this big awesome thing, pre launch. it flopped, it flopped hard. Personally, I don’t want that to occur again. I like this game, I don’t want to be frustrated because something isn’t right. Is it a slow pace, absolutely, but is it worth at least getting more right than wrong, at this point I have to say yes.

Oh how I love underwater in gw2. Shame they’ve abandoned it, along with dungeons and probably fractals for the expansion…

I wish they would just work on underwater combat, they had the basics down, needed a bit work but… T_T

PorceleinEve.2973:

A Massive Headache.1879:

I also have to point out, underwater combat was supposed to be this big awesome thing, pre launch. it flopped, it flopped hard. Personally, I don’t want that to occur again. I like this game, I don’t want to be frustrated because something isn’t right. Is it a slow pace, absolutely, but is it worth at least getting more right than wrong, at this point I have to say yes.

Oh how I love underwater in gw2. Shame they’ve abandoned it, along with dungeons and probably fractals for the expansion…

I wish they would just work on underwater combat, they had the basics down, needed a bit work but… T_T

Oh it needs a ton of work. the aiming is off for a lot of projectiles, float and sink can bypass stability, movement is slow and akward, some professions just don’t have any good underwater options(engi may as well never enter water, outside of bombs), they don’t actually use the fact that there’s a z-axis to move in there and it’s not like they really could(the aetherblade beginning section with the mines in water is awful, with their unclear hitbox), and there’s more that I don’t remember off the top of my head. I don’t want that long a list of problems with specializations, that would do so much more harm than good if they were to release multiple specs. and they just weren’t balanced, or tested among the masses.

Also, I agree on the dungeons/fractals. I really don’t like that they’ve just stopped with that; however, with “speed clearing” being popular, it’s really just made them tedious.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

What bothers me about this is that many people are being quite terribly rude to folks disappointed that we’re only getting one specialization, much of it founded on the assumption of “well they said we’ll get more later so quit being such a whiny little snot and man up, you Grinch!”

What bothers me are people who think that having only one specialization per profession means that there’s no choice.

Have these people ever played a table top RPG? D&D 3rd Edition and Pathfinder have prestige classes, which are similar to GW2 specializations. You meet the prerequisites and you take these sub-class levels in lieu of your regular class levels. Prestige classes are not necessarily stronger than the regular class, but they do expand your character options at the cost of abilities you would have gained from your primary class. Mutliclassing and prestige classes always come with the choice of losing out on abilities from the base class, which can be potent high level abilities.

Egg Shennn.6240:

Quells.2498:

I still think the answer is simple. You DO have two specializations, example being a Ranger OR a Druid.

No, that’s incorrect.

Ranger is the base class, not a specialization.

Druid is a specialization, and if what they said is true;
1 specialization per class in HoT.
“you’ll be able to swap from one specialization to another outside of combat”

How do you swap from one specialization to another when there is only one?

Please stop saying the base class is a specialization, because it isn’t.

Are you trolling? Don’t be obtuse. You’re nitpicking what was said against the spirit in which it was said. They clearly meant switching between a ranger and a druid (or subsequent specializations they may add).

Genesis.8572:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

What bothers me about this is that many people are being quite terribly rude to folks disappointed that we’re only getting one specialization, much of it founded on the assumption of “well they said we’ll get more later so quit being such a whiny little snot and man up, you Grinch!”

What bothers me are people who think that having only one specialization per profession means that there’s no choice.

Have these people ever played a table top RPG? D&D 3rd Edition and Pathfinder have prestige classes, which are similar to GW2 specializations. You meet the prerequisites and you take these sub-class levels in lieu of your regular class levels. Prestige classes are not necessarily stronger than the regular class, but they do expand your character options at the cost of abilities you would have gained from your primary class. Mutliclassing and prestige classes always come with the choice of losing out on abilities from the base class, which can be potent high level abilities.

I understand that you feel offended that people aren’t satisfied with the expansion offered by the specialization system, but for many players the announcement of a single specialization per profession is a very bitter pill to swallow.

Certainly one has the choice of remaining as the existing base class and not taking advantage of the new specialization. ArenaNet will no doubt ensure that this is indeed a viable choice in terms of in-game effectiveness, power, and Balance. The issue is not that such a choice exists or that players are being punished by the game for not specializing, thus removing the choice of Ranger as a class.

The issue, I suppose, is that some players are looking at what the specializations have to offer and realizing that their favorite class/playstyle is receiving nothing. There may be a player out there whose favorite character is his Ranger, which he deeply enjoys playing as a wily, woods-wise archer. To him, the natural magic aspects of the character are a distraction – what he enjoys is the notion of a toughened survivalist with eagle eyes and a full quiver. He doesn’t even particularly like the pet, but keeps a couple of dogs on hand because that’s innocuous enough for him to work with what he really wants to do.

This player is receiving nothing in Heart of Thorns. Those who enjoy the natural magic aspect of the Ranger and its spiritual connection with the wild get an entire new sub-profession to play with, including a new weapon, new heals, new utilities, new traits, all the saucy goodness. The hardened survivalist gets nothing. He does not get new skills. He does not get new traits. He does not get a redefined or reinvigorated profession mechanic. He may choose to do the same thing he’s been doing for three years when Heart of Thorns releases, or he may choose to take advantage of the new thing and sacrifice what he wants to do.

I know what your response is – that player is already content with his class, why should he feel any need to change it if he’s already enjoying what he is doing? This is true, and a valid point – but does it really strike you as fair that half of the Ranger’s archetypal players (the marksmen, the archers, the survivalists and rugged wilderness men) get absolutely nothing while the natural magic players, the elven protectors of the glade, and the beast-souled magicians of the woods get an entirely new advanced profession to play with?

That doesn’t strike me as fair, and I’m actually quite interested in how the Druid will work.

I do believe that they said at the PAX thing that choosing a specialization would alter how your class mechanic worked. So technically, by being able to not choose the specialization, you have two options available.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

The issue, I suppose, is that some players are looking at what the specializations have to offer and realizing that their favorite class/playstyle is receiving nothing. There may be a player out there whose favorite character is his Ranger, which he deeply enjoys playing as a wily, woods-wise archer. To him, the natural magic aspects of the character are a distraction – what he enjoys is the notion of a toughened survivalist with eagle eyes and a full quiver. He doesn’t even particularly like the pet, but keeps a couple of dogs on hand because that’s innocuous enough for him to work with what he really wants to do.

This player is receiving nothing in Heart of Thorns. Those who enjoy the natural magic aspect of the Ranger and its spiritual connection with the wild get an entire new sub-profession to play with, including a new weapon, new heals, new utilities, new traits, all the saucy goodness. The hardened survivalist gets nothing. He does not get new skills. He does not get new traits. He does not get a redefined or reinvigorated profession mechanic. He may choose to do the same thing he’s been doing for three years when Heart of Thorns releases, or he may choose to take advantage of the new thing and sacrifice what he wants to do.

I know what your response is – that player is already content with his class, why should he feel any need to change it if he’s already enjoying what he is doing? This is true, and a valid point – but does it really strike you as fair that half of the Ranger’s archetypal players (the marksmen, the archers, the survivalists and rugged wilderness men) get absolutely nothing while the natural magic players, the elven protectors of the glade, and the beast-souled magicians of the woods get an entirely new advanced profession to play with?

That doesn’t strike me as fair, and I’m actually quite interested in how the Druid will work.

Whilst it might not seem “fair” to the player that isn’t interested in playing a Druid because he’d rather play as an archer, he needs to bear in mind that even though the first lot of specialisations may not cater to him, that this specialisation system will give Anet a way to add more specialisations in a “faster” and more balanced manner and one may cater to him eventually.

I’d imagine the second or third specialisation for the Ranger will completely remove the pet mechanic since it’s one of the most asked for changes, and that will definitely cater to the player you described above.

So I’d say that player isn’t receiving ‘nothing’ from this expansion, he’s getting a much more plausible chance that his style of playing will get a specialisation that caters to him.

psizone.8437:

Whilst it might not seem “fair” to the player that isn’t interested in playing a Druid because he’d rather play as an archer, he needs to bear in mind that even though the first lot of specialisations may not cater to him, that this specialisation system will give Anet a way to add more specialisations in a “faster” and more balanced manner and one may cater to him eventually.

I’d imagine the second or third specialisation for the Ranger will completely remove the pet mechanic since it’s one of the most asked for changes, and that will definitely cater to the player you described above.

So I’d say that player isn’t receiving ‘nothing’ from this expansion, he’s getting a much more plausible chance that his style of playing will get a specialisation that caters to him.

And as soon as I have the slightest remotest shred of evidence that we’ll get new specializations more than one-per-expansion this may be a valid argument, but I have no such evidence. Until then, I feel as if players are perfectly entitled to the right to ask why ‘Style A’ gets an entire advanced profession dedicated to it while ‘Style B’ gets nothing. It’s the sort of discussion that needs to happen and the sort of question ArenaNet should answer.

Again: ArenaNet has folded the promises they once made about semi-regular updates to existing professions in the form of new skills and weapons into this Specializations notion, after failing to deliver on their original promise for three years. Telling people “shut your blasted meatholes, you’ll get yours eventually you whiny jaggoff!” is both unhelpful and also not actually true. ArenaNet has told us that we will get additional specializations in the future. How quickly those specializations turn up has very, very conspicuously not been announced.

Many folks are assuming that the opening nine are simply a trial run and that once the base concept has been proven out we’ll get new specs all over the place. I think it’s far more likely that we won’t see any new specializations until the next expansion pack, or until whichever point in the Living Story where we move on to the next major area beyond the jungle. And that means that a lot of players are going to be getting nothing for quite some time to come.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

The issue, I suppose, is that some players are looking at what the specializations have to offer and realizing that their favorite class/playstyle is receiving nothing.

If this is indeed the underlying issue, then I fail to see how adding further specializations alleviates these fundamental concerns, because further specializations would only propagate this core issue.

I know what your response is – that player is already content with his class, why should he feel any need to change it if he’s already enjoying what he is doing? This is true, and a valid point – but does it really strike you as fair that half of the Ranger’s archetypal players (the marksmen, the archers, the survivalists and rugged wilderness men) get absolutely nothing while the natural magic players, the elven protectors of the glade, and the beast-souled magicians of the woods get an entirely new advanced profession to play with?

No, here’s my response. That’s great and all, but I have not seen anyone apart from you raise this concern. People have been complaining in this thread about a) how one specialization is not a choice and b) that there should be more specializations per profession at launch. You also seem to be under the assumption that further ranger specializations would expand this archery archetype you describe when that’s not necessarily the case. There may be a second ranger specialization that gives them a warhammer and turns them into magical green wardens (aka green knights) or a scepter that turns them into shamans.

That doesn’t strike me as fair, and I’m actually quite interested in how the Druid will work.

That’s nice, but I do not think that this is an issue of archetypal fairness. You can already see this with people speculating on specializations and these new archetypes. There are many tangentially related-archetypes to the professions that people see. Not everyone will be satisfied, because these specializations will not necessarily match with their conception of those archetypes. (I already anticipate people complaining should it turn out that the druid cannot shapeshift, because that’s their conception of a druid from either D&D or WoW.)

Also, all rangers can get the druid specialization. This expands the entire profession. Furthermore, these specializations will exist as something potentially available to all players. It’s not just about the ranger player. It’s also about the player hesitant to play a ranger but who are now interested in becoming a druid.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Again: ArenaNet has folded the promises they once made about semi-regular updates to existing professions in the form of new skills and weapons into this Specializations notion, after failing to deliver on their original promise for three years. Telling people “shut your blasted meatholes, you’ll get yours eventually you whiny jaggoff!” is both unhelpful and also not actually true. ArenaNet has told us that we will get additional specializations in the future. How quickly those specializations turn up has very, very conspicuously not been announced.

Many folks are assuming that the opening nine are simply a trial run and that once the base concept has been proven out we’ll get new specs all over the place. I think it’s far more likely that we won’t see any new specializations until the next expansion pack, or until whichever point in the Living Story where we move on to the next major area beyond the jungle. And that means that a lot of players are going to be getting nothing for quite some time to come.

I’d just like to point out that I’ve been trying to point out to people how the specialisations were going to work, why 1 specialisation as a trial run isn’t a terrible idea and that we should all be patient before crucifying Anet before they even start their deep dives with info and not once have I called someone a “whiny jaggoff” (except that one guy that started verbally abusing staff members because of the whole “paid expansion” thing).

That said, http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-interview/#page-2 in this interview they state that the expansion is to set the framework for the specialisations, I seriously doubt we’ll see another expansion for some time, however it’s much more likely that they’ll roll out one or two more specialisations before the years end, especially with the way they’re talking about the system being a great way to give classes different playstyles and perhaps balance the classes in areas where they were lacking.

I’m not saying we’ll get flooded with specialisations, but I’d like to think 1 or 2 within 6 months of the expansion releasing is well within reason. We’ll just need to wait a few weeks to find out either way, but try not to use the whole “but you’ll disagree with me and call me names because you’re all high and mighty” when some of us are genuinely trying to help.

I feel the need to also mention now, You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all the people all the time. So maybe the first specialization won’t appeal to some players, ok? Sorry, sucks for you, but sometimes that just happens. Maybe the next specialization will cater more to your interests.

Egg Shennn.6240:

Quells.2498:

I still think the answer is simple. You DO have two specializations, example being a Ranger OR a Druid.

No, that’s incorrect.

Ranger is the base class, not a specialization.

Druid is a specialization, and if what they said is true;
1 specialization per class in HoT.
“you’ll be able to swap from one specialization to another outside of combat”

How do you swap from one specialization to another when there is only one?

Please stop saying the base class is a specialization, because it isn’t.

Can you provide a link to were they said that you would be able to go bettwen specializations, since all i have head is that ranger can become druid spec and swap back to ranger out of combat
36:45 into this video he say specializations since he talks about all the classes, then directly after say
-That this specialization system will allow each class to master a (as in 1) specialization that grow that profession into something new almost a secondary profession if you will.

psizone.8437:

I’m not saying we’ll get flooded with specialisations, but I’d like to think 1 or 2 within 6 months of the expansion releasing is well within reason. We’ll just need to wait a few weeks to find out either way, but try not to use the whole “but you’ll disagree with me and call me names because you’re all high and mighty” when some of us are genuinely trying to help.

You actually think that? You honestly 100% truthfully are thinking that we’ll get one (never mind 2) extra specialization for each for the 9 classes within 6 months of the expansion’s release date? Seriously? You, my friend, are having an overdose of optimism.

What you saw is what you’ll get untill the next expansion. Why would they ever, in their right minds, give you for free another 9 specs when they can package it with a few zones and sell it to you?

Nah you must be trolling us. There’s no way anyone would believe that, it’s not a realistic expectation. Check their track record.

My only hope is that maybe what someone said a few posts up is true and they’ve only been working on this expansion after the end of season 1. In which case we can hope (without evidence but hope is a very hard thing to let go) that the next expansion will come after only one season’s filler content after the expansion. So, maybe 1.5 years later, we’ll get another one. Unless of course they decide to change the framework again…

PorceleinEve.2973:

What you saw is what you’ll get untill the next expansion. Why would they ever, in their right minds, give you for free another 9 specs when they can package it with a few zones and sell it to you?

Nah you must be trolling us. There’s no way anyone would believe that, it’s not a realistic expectation. Check their track record.

My only hope is that maybe what someone said a few posts up is true and they’ve only been working on this expansion after the end of season 1. In which case we can hope (without evidence but hope is a very hard thing to let go) that the next expansion will come after only one season’s filler content after the expansion. So, maybe 1.5 years later, we’ll get another one. Unless of course they decide to change the framework again…

Be fair, ANet did release a lot of small content for free (or free for the first two weeks, as per Season 2). You may not have liked it or found it satisfactory, but it’s there.

Furthermore it’s possible they’ll approach Specialization releases much like they did with Season 2: release a new Specialization periodically, make it free for people who log in during the free period, and charge gems to everyone who missed it. It doesn’t have to be packaged with an expansion to be monetized.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Until then, I feel as if players are perfectly entitled to the right to ask why ‘Style A’ gets an entire advanced profession dedicated to it while ‘Style B’ gets nothing.

You could as well ask, why “Style B” gets something for themselves only now, while “Style A” had a whole class for over 2 years already. And why “Style Z” will never get anything, even after 10 addiional specializations for every class will show up, because styles C, D, E, F G, H, I J, K, L (and so on), will beat them to the punch.

The answer is, of course, that it is simply impossible to satisfy everyone.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

And that means that a lot of players are going to be getting nothing for quite some time to come.

That would be equally true even if there were not one, not two but three specializations introduced in HoT. Someone will always feel left out (…especially if that someone will desire holy trinity playing style)

Pandaman.4758:

Be fair, ANet did release a lot of small content for free (or free for the first two weeks, as per Season 2). You may not have liked it or found it satisfactory, but it’s there.

Furthermore it’s possible they’ll approach Specialization releases much like they did with Season 2: release a new Specialization periodically, make it free for people who log in during the free period, and charge gems to everyone who missed it. It doesn’t have to be packaged with an expansion to be monetized.

Oh, I have no doubt we’ll be getting similar free upgrades to what we had up till now. I never doubt that at all. It would come as a surprise if they stopped doing that.

But for specializations I get the feeling that that won’t happen. This is expansion material. They’ll never give it out for free. They’d have to work at 9 specs at a time to release. Otherwise the forums will be on fire cause someone got another spec and they didn’t. If 9 more specs is a lot of work to add to the expansion now, you can’t possibly expect it to be any less of a work later for them to give for free.

As I’ve said before, my personal hope is that their team will pick up the pace and we’ll see another expansion after 1.5 years of time. Kinda like Expansion > Living Story Season > Expansion cycle. Especially if this expansion goes well for them.

PorceleinEve.2973:

You actually think that? You honestly 100% truthfully are thinking that we’ll get one (never mind 2) extra specialization for each for the 9 classes within 6 months of the expansion’s release date? Seriously? You, my friend, are having an overdose of optimism.

What you saw is what you’ll get untill the next expansion. Why would they ever, in their right minds, give you for free another 9 specs when they can package it with a few zones and sell it to you?

Nah you must be trolling us. There’s no way anyone would believe that, it’s not a realistic expectation. Check their track record.

Yes, I do think that.

Honestly, I’d say you were being more of a pessimist, and I, an optimist.

They’re billing the specialisation system as their new way of progressing the characters horizontally, it would be insane to imagine they would neglect the system within the first year.

Last time they gave us new skills etc was in the feature pack and that was free, just because they are bringing out a paid expansion doesn’t mean they’ll stop providing free content.

Is 1 specialisation within 6 months really that crazy of an idea to you?

psizone.8437:

Yes, I do think that.

Honestly, I’d say you were being more of a pessimist, and I, an optimist.

They’re billing the specialisation system as their new way of progressing the characters horizontally, it would be insane to imagine they would neglect the system within the first year.

Last time they gave us new skills etc was in the feature pack and that was free, just because they are bringing out a paid expansion doesn’t mean they’ll stop providing free content.

Is 1 specialisation within 6 months really that crazy of an idea to you?

Hehe true that, but think of it this way, I can only be pleasantly surprised from this point on. You, on the other hand can only be confirmed or proven wrong :P Pessimism is not without its merits :P

They won’t neglect it, you get a whole set of masteries (ie abilities you need to play in the new set of maps), that’s the horizontal progression. Why give another spec out. There is no need. Using my amazing powers of seeing into the future, I predict, that for the first 6 months the expansion launches we’ll only see “bug fixes, optimizations and twicking of the mastery system”. To offer us a spec during that time would mean they’ve been working on ‘em for some time now. I thought that my idea that they’ve been working on this for a long time was wrong and that the consensus here was that they only “recently” decided to go the expansion path.

Last time they gave us skills for free were like one heal skill for all and some other proff related. That’s like giving us the equivalent worth of one spec without the ulti, the trait line, the new or changed mechanic. You got to admit that if it took ’em that long for a few skills, the odds are against us here.

I think the only free content we’ll see after the expansion would be a return of the living story with one or two seasons before the next expansion.

So yes, it does sound like a totally crazy idea to me.

But let me be the first to say, I 100% wish i’m wrong on this one.

PorceleinEve.2973:

To offer us a spec during that time would mean they’ve been working on ‘em for some time now. I thought that my idea that they’ve been working on this for a long time was wrong and that the consensus here was that they only “recently” decided to go the expansion path.

Last time they gave us skills for free were like one heal skill for all and some other proff related. That’s like giving us the equivalent worth of one spec without the ulti, the trait line, the new or changed mechanic. You got to admit that if it took ’em that long for a few skills, the odds are against us here.

I think the only free content we’ll see after the expansion would be a return of the living story with one or two seasons before the next expansion.

So yes, it does sound like a totally crazy idea to me.

But let me be the first to say, I 100% wish i’m wrong on this one.

Assuming they’ve been working certain aspects of these features for at least a year and around when all of the CDIs they started, they may have some specialisations started but not yet balanced or fully built yet,. So at least the second lot of specialisations shouldn’t take as long, assuming they’re not doing them from scratch after the expansion.

Yeah, they took a while to release new traits and skills and very few of them, but they as I said above, they could have stockpiled some skills and traits that didn’t fit in the base classes without being out of place or were properly balanced. With specialisations, they can remove traits and skills to better balance new ones they place in.

I hope I’m crazy enough for both of us. I’m sure we’ll receive at least a hint of their plans when they start their deep dive on the specialisations in a week or two.

You think we’re getting deep dives before PAX East in March?

Man, you be crazy. ArenaNet’s not gonna give us squat except the occasional slip-up driplet of information in an interview until they get it out there, and when they do anything that’s not in the demo’s still going to be “we’ll talk about that later.”

I understand why they do it, and they’re hardly the only company that does of course, but OH MY FROGGING GAWD I cannot stand game companies’ closed-lipness about absolutely everything, at all times. I really wish people weren’t so stupid as to take everything a dev says as an ironclad promise – if players had brains, maybe we wouldn’t have to wait until March to get substantial new information on the expansion.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

You think we’re getting deep dives before PAX East in March?

Man, you be crazy. ArenaNet’s not gonna give us squat except the occasional slip-up driplet of information in an interview until they get it out there, and when they do anything that’s not in the demo’s still going to be “we’ll talk about that later.”

Um.. They’ve already said the deep dives start at the start of February. Don’t call me crazy unless I’ve actually warranted it!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Questions-about-Guild-Wars-2-Heart-of-Thorns/first#post4733790

She also reconfirmed that in one of the non-stickied threads but I don’t want to have to manually look for it.

Pardon me for being cynical, but ‘most likely in a couple of weeks’ doesn’t really sound like confirmation to me, and didn’t sound like such when I read that eight days ago. Heh…maybe it’s the MWO player in me, I dunno. What I do know is the longer they don’t talk about the game at all save for rehashing the PAX South presentation with interviewers, the more revved up the Hype Train gets as people get more and more desperate for something, anything, to confirm or deny increasingly wild mass speculation.

It’s good marketing. And never mind that ‘good marketing’ and ‘pure evil’ are synonymous in most every way that counts, I suppose.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Pardon me for being cynical, but ‘most likely in a couple of weeks’ doesn’t really sound like confirmation to me, and didn’t sound like such when I read that eight days ago. Heh…maybe it’s the MWO player in me, I dunno. What I do know is the longer they don’t talk about the game at all save for rehashing the PAX South presentation with interviewers, the more revved up the Hype Train gets as people get more and more desperate for something, anything, to confirm or deny increasingly wild mass speculation.

It’s good marketing. And never mind that ‘good marketing’ and ‘pure evil’ are synonymous in most every way that counts, I suppose.

I think you are being overly cynical indeed.

For now we have to go along with “it’ll likely be a couple of weeks” unless they state otherwise, we can’t start second-guessing what little information we actually get.

The reason I’d imagine the deep dives will definitely be this month is that the PAX East playable demo will be at the start of March and they’ll likely want to give people a good idea of what to expect before asking them to play it (they’ll want people to look for specific things at the demo instead of trying to break down their playtime for any and every piece of information due to lack of information on the website).

Plus, they’re going to start the beta for the expansion pack “shortly” after PAX East so it wouldn’t make sense to start the dives near the same time they’ll be organising that.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

You think we’re getting deep dives before PAX East in March?

Hmm, they have already started, so i guess yes. Tomorrow will be next part, and there’s something bigger announced for 13th February as well. Granted, the first article is not that very deep yet, but i fully expect them to go into more detail with each next blogpost.

Egg Shennn.6240:

Quells.2498:

I still think the answer is simple. You DO have two specializations, example being a Ranger OR a Druid.

No, that’s incorrect.

Ranger is the base class, not a specialization.

Druid is a specialization, and if what they said is true;
1 specialization per class in HoT.
“you’ll be able to swap from one specialization to another outside of combat”

How do you swap from one specialization to another when there is only one?

Please stop saying the base class is a specialization, because it isn’t.

Show us where someone from Anet told you the base class isn’t a specialization

Quells.2498:

Show us where someone from Anet told you the base class isn’t a specialization

That’s easy, that’s the part were rangers are NOT getting new traits, new heal, new ulti, and new utilities spells. That’s what specializations are getting right? New prof mechanic, new traits, skills, a new weapon. So if ranger isn’t getting that, it’s not a specialization.

Playing with words…. we’ve already established that having ranger as base and one spec is a choice. Some don’t find it a worthy one to make, others feel that that isn’t enough to choose from and others are ok with it. Let’s not repeat ourselves…

PorceleinEve.2973:

Quells.2498:

Show us where someone from Anet told you the base class isn’t a specialization

That’s easy, that’s the part were rangers are NOT getting new traits, new heal, new ulti, and new utilities spells. That’s what specializations are getting right? New prof mechanic, new traits, skills, a new weapon. So if ranger isn’t getting that, it’s not a specialization.

Playing with words…. we’ve already established that having ranger as base and one spec is a choice. Some don’t find it a worthy one to make, others feel that that isn’t enough to choose from and others are ok with it. Let’s not repeat ourselves…

Druid isn’t getting new traits, new heal, new elite, and new utilities either~ It’s just being added, and the Druid is only a package of traits and skills and a weapon.

Anyway, Ranger isn’t a “specialization”, but it isn’t any less than one, therefore choosing to be a Druid might not be the best idea for some, as it could sacrifice aspects of the Ranger’s “all-round”-ness that some might prefer or perhaps they don’t like the playstyle of the Druid mechanic in comparison to the Ranger mechanic.

We’ll have to see how it plays out, but curious to see if everyone just plays there specialization which may really limit the diversity of play from all the classes, when even compared to now.

Mike Flavaz.2635:

We’ll have to see how it plays out, but curious to see if everyone just plays there specialization which may really limit the diversity of play from all the classes, when even compared to now.

I’d imagine everyone will at least try the specialisations but with the Druid, I’d imagine it’s more of a support/defensive spec so it wouldn’t really work too well with the Bearbow build which 90% of Rangers run right now.

Dondagora.9645:

Druid isn’t getting new traits, new heal, new elite, and new utilities either~ It’s just being added, and the Druid is only a package of traits and skills and a weapon.

Anyway, Ranger isn’t a “specialization”, but it isn’t any less than one, therefore choosing to be a Druid might not be the best idea for some, as it could sacrifice aspects of the Ranger’s “all-round”-ness that some might prefer or perhaps they don’t like the playstyle of the Druid mechanic in comparison to the Ranger mechanic.

Yes it does. In addition to the stuff that he’s keeping from ranger he’s also getting new traits, a new heal, a new elite and new utilities, not to mention t he new class mechanic. What does ranger get? nothing ’xcept the ability to go druid. So that makes ranger the base class, and everything else a specialization.

And since ranger isn’t a “specialization” as you so elegantly noticed that means that you get to “choose” from… one specialization when specializing. So please stop selling the choice of not specializing as an equaly valid choice between 2 specs. Cause it’s not. And some people don’t like it. And it’s ok to not like it. It is A choice. But it’s not a choice between specializations cause we’re only getting one.

Also given the fact that we’ll switch between our specs and our base class any time we’re out of combat, kinda eliminates the value of the choice. It’s absolute ephemeral and carries little weight. Just an alternative take on rangers for those who might like it or need it for a dungeon, event, fractal, something.

I agree. I think the game needs to have at least two to begin with especially if they are releasing this somewhere around November, that’s plenty of time to increase the size of your crew to get it done. Even the Asurans know that.

If they release one I think people will feel cheated because it doesn’t really offer much in the way of choices. Two per class would be wiser because it allows alot of choices.

Unless they have planned a Jan or Feb release of a major patch right after launch that would have a second specialization choice per class.

tigirius.9014:

I agree. I think the game needs to have at least two to begin with especially if they are releasing this somewhere around November, that’s plenty of time to increase the size of your crew to get it done. Even the Asurans know that.

A few people in the forums seem to agree that November is a bit late for a release.

Sounds more like they’ll release between late April and sometime in May if the beta goes well.

I hope it is not just a single choice. If it was, then necros get GSs, but why necros? Maybe my ele would like a GS.

I know I sound like an old person, but I necros are OP enough that they don’t need to get GSs. grumble grumble kids on the lawn

I will settle for a hammer on the ele though. I guess.

catsunami.8437:

I hope it is not just a single choice. If it was, then necros get GSs, but why necros? Maybe my ele would like a GS.

I know I sound like an old person, but I necros are OP enough that they don’t need to get GSs. grumble grumble kids on the lawn

I will settle for a hammer on the ele though. I guess.

Well the Necro GS may not necessarily be any good.

There was a theory that the Ele wouldn’t get greatsword, hammer or shortbow since using certain skins on these weapons could be confused with the summoned weapons.

psizone.8437:

There was a theory that the Ele wouldn’t get greatsword, hammer or shortbow since using certain skins on these weapons could be confused with the summoned weapons.

Or axe, or shield…

That doesn’t leave very much though since eles conjure pretty much everything either way?

Elementalist with a gun of any sort just seems ridiculous. In my head I’m (for w/e reason) imagining Gandalf with a sniper rifle shooting orcs… :P

catsunami.8437:

Or axe, or shield…

That doesn’t leave very much though since eles conjure pretty much everything either way?

Elementalist with a gun of any sort just seems ridiculous. In my head I’m (for w/e reason) imagining Gandalf with a sniper rifle shooting orcs… :P

Woops, I was thinking I missed a few.

A gun that shoots elemental projectiles could be fun, more of a midranged, fast paced weapon.

PorceleinEve.2973:

Yes it does. In addition to the stuff that he’s keeping from ranger he’s also getting new traits, a new heal, a new elite and new utilities, not to mention t he new class mechanic. What does ranger get? nothing ’xcept the ability to go druid. So that makes ranger the base class, and everything else a specialization.

You do realize, that you could easily swap the words “Druid” and “Ranger” here, and there would be no difference? There will be some core skills, available to both druid and ranger, but there will also be some skills available to Ranger only, and to Druid only. Each class will have a separate class mechanic that the other one won’t have. The only difference will be that some of this stuff is here already, and some will be introduced in HoT – but that hardly matters. After all, Druit also won’t be getting any things that Druids didn’t have before.

A lot of people are missing the fact that we’re already playing what is essentially a Specialization.

Specialist does not mean better. It means you specialise in a few areas instead of being spread across everything. I see nothing wrong with having the choice between base and specialist. For now, at least.

However, I DO see a problem with only having one specialisation for professions like he Elementalist. Choosing a single element, or even two, would be harsh. Perhaps an Arcane specialisation would work?

Astralporing.1957:

You do realize, that you could easily swap the words “Druid” and “Ranger” here, and there would be no difference? There will be some core skills, available to both druid and ranger, but there will also be some skills available to Ranger only, and to Druid only. Each class will have a separate class mechanic that the other one won’t have. The only difference will be that some of this stuff is here already, and some will be introduced in HoT – but that hardly matters. After all, Druit also won’t be getting any things that Druids didn’t have before.

That’s a good point. Still, ranger doesn’t feel like a specialization, and in all honesty, it’s not. We both know that. But still a good point

dietzero.3514:

Specialist does not mean better. It means you specialise in a few areas instead of being spread across everything. I see nothing wrong with having the choice between base and specialist. For now, at least.

However, I DO see a problem with only having one specialisation for professions like he Elementalist. Choosing a single element, or even two, would be harsh. Perhaps an Arcane specialisation would work?

In all honesty it’s not a specialization since the choice isn’t permanent. We’re not specializing in anything, we can have it all already. Still one spec feels cheap…

I would much rather they focus on making the one specialization per class we are getting with HOT as unique and fun as possible than see multiple at this time.

The thing that people are overlooking is that HOT seems to be (in all of its features) about providing a strong base for future living story updates. Once the system is in place, it should be easy for them to drop in new maps, outposts, adventures, masteries and even specializations as features (or as part of living story updates) rather than as part of full blown expansions. Not saying this will happen, but it seems logical.

And from a semantics perspective, the word specialization is in no way an indication of multiple options. It makes sense we will eventually have this, but – as I said – it really makes more sense for them to focus on getting it right the first time.

Myxam.2790:

A lot of people are missing the fact that we’re already playing what is essentially a Specialization.

Yes and we’ve seen how well that’s turned on in PVE haven’t we? Maybe if they add more they’ll get it right this time because frankly as an explosive engineer I’m tired of throwing out one tiny gimpt mine, having mobs dance all over the ones from the traits and never set them off (like giant mobs do that all the time), and the fact that the radius of explosives is still the same radius as a dagger yet warriors with a two hander are able to solo 5 mans.

I think 2 new specializations per class isn’t too much to ask at launch. (considering the size of the team now and the amount of funding these expansions usually get in order to complete their task.)

tigirius.9014:

Myxam.2790:

A lot of people are missing the fact that we’re already playing what is essentially a Specialization.

Yes and we’ve seen how well that’s turned on in PVE haven’t we? Maybe if they add more they’ll get it right this time because frankly as an explosive engineer I’m tired of throwing out one tiny gimpt mine, having mobs dance all over the ones from the traits and never set them off (like giant mobs do that all the time), and the fact that the radius of explosives is still the same radius as a dagger yet warriors with a two hander are able to solo 5 mans.

I think 2 new specializations per class isn’t too much to ask at launch. (considering the size of the team now and the amount of funding these expansions usually get in order to complete their task.)

Out of curiosity. how exactly one more specialization would help in your case where a single one wouldn’t?

I would have been happier with being able to choose skills 6-10 from a second profession of my choice.

scerevisiae.1972:

I would have been happier with being able to choose skills 6-10 from a second profession of my choice.

Yeah, that’s where gw1 fell apart, this game would collapse if we were able to do that, and they won’t make that mistake twice.

Astralporing.1957:

tigirius.9014:

Myxam.2790:

A lot of people are missing the fact that we’re already playing what is essentially a Specialization.

Yes and we’ve seen how well that’s turned on in PVE haven’t we? Maybe if they add more they’ll get it right this time because frankly as an explosive engineer I’m tired of throwing out one tiny gimpt mine, having mobs dance all over the ones from the traits and never set them off (like giant mobs do that all the time), and the fact that the radius of explosives is still the same radius as a dagger yet warriors with a two hander are able to solo 5 mans.

I think 2 new specializations per class isn’t too much to ask at launch. (considering the size of the team now and the amount of funding these expansions usually get in order to complete their task.)

Out of curiosity. how exactly one more specialization would help in your case where a single one wouldn’t?

It would allow for more choice options say just after launch they suddenly decide as they did with this class that it’s somehow OP and nerf an entire category. At least we’d be able to play some other specialization while they spend years sorting it out if they ever do.

Two specializations would also require that the team rebalance the class a bit more so than if they had one which might force their hand in trying to figure out all of the things they did wrong on the non-specialized portion of the class and it’s abilities.

A Massive Headache.1879:

scerevisiae.1972:

I would have been happier with being able to choose skills 6-10 from a second profession of my choice.

Yeah, that’s where gw1 fell apart, this game would collapse if we were able to do that, and they won’t make that mistake twice.

Not quite the same beast though, since in GW1 you could pick any combination of skills to fill your 8 slots (with the only limitation being only 1 elite). The number of combinations that could be generated was enormous, and unmanageable for balance.

GW2 has several limits in place that restrict things greatly though. Weapon skills locked mean they know and control the first 5 skills for balance. Locked into having 1 heal skill gives another level of balance control. 1 elite from a fairly limited selection, which merely leaves the 3 utility skills where you actually have free choice on.

With the specializations, they are effectively letting you add a second class, but in a very limited choice selection per class. I think being able to choose utility skills from a secondary class would have been something that could have been balanced, but they didn’t go that route, so my fingers are crossed that the specializations (once there is actually choice of specializations) will bring back a bit of that creative feel to the characters, instead of the cookie cutter feel now.