Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Vayne.8563:

My answer to all of this was to find a couple of friends. 90% plus of the hot maps can be done by a group of 3.

And this is the biggest problem I have with HoT maps.

I started playing GW2 because party play wasn’t required. Yes, you could make parties, but only because you liked the closer association that gave. Dungeons were the only place were parties where required. In all other areas you could do it alone. Having others around might have made it easier and more fun, but it wasn’t required.

Fast forward to HoT: parties are mandatory to even get the hero points, let alone events or most of the personal achievements.

I don’t have a lot of friends and I don’t want to always ask their help if I want to do something in HoT. They might be doing something else or just don’t feel like going to that one area/help with that one personal story bit.

And party play isn’t required. It’s like the temples in Orr. I can’t solo them but I don’t have to be in a party to do them either. It’s no different.

Really? No. Group events wherein most of the rewards in a given zone are found is not the same as wandering around a map trying to get HC’s, Vistas or PoI’s.

Actually this is completely untrue. Rewards in VB and TD are better doing map events than doing the meta. Therefore you have two wide, huge sprawling HOT zones you can explore.

Less people do the VB meta because the rewards for doing it are mediocre. The rewards for doing events are much better, because you get crowbars and chests are always there.

The only meta that gives you better rewards is the AB meta, and that’s almost always populated, and easy to do.

So I’m not 100% sure of your point.

Edit: DS doesn’t require you grouping either, though you might want to join a squad to take you to the active map.

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

I didn’t play GW2 prior to HoT, and I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have enjoyed it. But for me, HoT was a big hit! How do you reconcile that with some of the opinions on this forum?

Many (most?) of the threads complaining about HoT are from people who played GW2 before HoT like me. I really enjoyed GW2, it was the next MMO I was going to stay with long-term. When HoT was released, I was shocked. I HATED Verdant Brink. The entire experience there was horrible as I died and died – 50% of the time because I didn’t have the new Masteries. My solution was to get out of VB so I died my way across VB to Auric Basin. Auric Basin was better since it wasn’t so vertical, but many of the mobs were worse with more rapters, and adding so many more smokescales, arrowheads, etc. But while it was highly populated, AB is what saved me from quitting GW2. I eventually progressed into Tangled Depths and again was shocked: something worse than VB! I again died my way through TD in order to get to Dragon Stand. And of course there I was stymied as I couldn’t really do much of anything unless the Meta was active.

So HoT was almost a complete disaster for me. I left it after only progressing about 1/4 through the story and only returned because a couple Guildies came back and wanted to do the Story.

There’s another thread on the forums about Anet changing GW2 with extremes. HoT is a perfect example of that. If we had been introduced to the extreme vertical more gradually, and the expansion had more of a variety of maps, I would have liked it much better.

Meanwhile, TD and VB are my two favorite maps in the game by a longshot. So, you’re the developer: What do you do?

LS3 is probably a good indication of ANet’s answer to that question. It features more accessible events and a mix of vertical and flat maps. However, while I don’t mind the flat maps, I would be disappointed if the expansion didn’t feature at least a map or two that follow in the same vein as Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink. I particularly enjoyed exploring and learning these maps and I still return to them frequently.

Let’s hope the compromise is one we can both live with.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

And party play isn’t required. It’s like the temples in Orr. I can’t solo them but I don’t have to be in a party to do them either. It’s no different.

Really? No. Group events wherein most of the rewards in a given zone are found is not the same as wandering around a map trying to get HC’s, Vistas or PoI’s.

Actually this is completely untrue. Rewards in VB and TD are better doing map events than doing the meta. Therefore you have two wide, huge sprawling HOT zones you can explore.

Less people do the VB meta because the rewards for doing it are mediocre. The rewards for doing events are much better, because you get crowbars and chests are always there.

The only meta that gives you better rewards is the AB meta, and that’s almost always populated, and easy to do.

So I’m not 100% sure of your point.

Edit: DS doesn’t require you grouping either, though you might want to join a squad to take you to the active map.

I quoted you referring to Temple Events in Orr (which do contain a lot of the rewards Orr offers now that Plinx and the other farmable events were nerfed), and you respond as if I were referring to meta events in HoT? My point was that I can go to a temple meta in Orr. Even now, assuming anyone at all is on the map, people will come out of the woodwork. It’s a lot less likely that you’ll find random people following you around to PoI’s and HC’s in a HoT map unless you make overtures that Lady Rhonwyn seems to not want to make.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

And party play isn’t required. It’s like the temples in Orr. I can’t solo them but I don’t have to be in a party to do them either. It’s no different.

Really? No. Group events wherein most of the rewards in a given zone are found is not the same as wandering around a map trying to get HC’s, Vistas or PoI’s.

Actually this is completely untrue. Rewards in VB and TD are better doing map events than doing the meta. Therefore you have two wide, huge sprawling HOT zones you can explore.

Less people do the VB meta because the rewards for doing it are mediocre. The rewards for doing events are much better, because you get crowbars and chests are always there.

The only meta that gives you better rewards is the AB meta, and that’s almost always populated, and easy to do.

So I’m not 100% sure of your point.

Edit: DS doesn’t require you grouping either, though you might want to join a squad to take you to the active map.

I quoted you referring to Temple Events in Orr (which do contain a lot of the rewards Orr offers now that Plinx and the other farmable events were nerfed), and you respond as if I were referring to meta events in HoT? My point was that I can go to a temple meta in Orr. Even now, assuming anyone at all is on the map, people will come out of the woodwork. It’s a lot less likely that you’ll find random people following you around to PoI’s and HC’s in a HoT map unless you make overtures that Lady Rhonwyn seems to not want to make.

And yet, I’ve seen the Temple of Balthazar event fail many many many times in the Straits of Devastation, every single year since the game launched, including this one. Depends on which temple I guess.

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

I didn’t play GW2 prior to HoT, and I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have enjoyed it. But for me, HoT was a big hit! How do you reconcile that with some of the opinions on this forum?

Many (most?) of the threads complaining about HoT are from people who played GW2 before HoT like me. I really enjoyed GW2, it was the next MMO I was going to stay with long-term. When HoT was released, I was shocked. I HATED Verdant Brink. The entire experience there was horrible as I died and died – 50% of the time because I didn’t have the new Masteries. My solution was to get out of VB so I died my way across VB to Auric Basin. Auric Basin was better since it wasn’t so vertical, but many of the mobs were worse with more rapters, and adding so many more smokescales, arrowheads, etc. But while it was highly populated, AB is what saved me from quitting GW2. I eventually progressed into Tangled Depths and again was shocked: something worse than VB! I again died my way through TD in order to get to Dragon Stand. And of course there I was stymied as I couldn’t really do much of anything unless the Meta was active.

So HoT was almost a complete disaster for me. I left it after only progressing about 1/4 through the story and only returned because a couple Guildies came back and wanted to do the Story.

There’s another thread on the forums about Anet changing GW2 with extremes. HoT is a perfect example of that. If we had been introduced to the extreme vertical more gradually, and the expansion had more of a variety of maps, I would have liked it much better.

Meanwhile, TD and VB are my two favorite maps in the game by a longshot. So, you’re the developer: What do you do?

LS3 is probably a good indication of ANet’s answer to that question. It features more accessible events and a mix of vertical and flat maps. However, while I don’t mind the flat maps, I would be disappointed if the expansion didn’t feature at least a map or two that follow in the same vein as Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink. I particularly enjoyed exploring and learning these maps and I still return to them frequently.

Let’s hope the compromise is one we can both live with.

I agree I hope the next expac is one we can all live with and ENJOY!

slashlizardy.9167:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

I didn’t play GW2 prior to HoT, and I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have enjoyed it. But for me, HoT was a big hit! How do you reconcile that with some of the opinions on this forum?

Many (most?) of the threads complaining about HoT are from people who played GW2 before HoT like me. I really enjoyed GW2, it was the next MMO I was going to stay with long-term. When HoT was released, I was shocked. I HATED Verdant Brink. The entire experience there was horrible as I died and died – 50% of the time because I didn’t have the new Masteries. My solution was to get out of VB so I died my way across VB to Auric Basin. Auric Basin was better since it wasn’t so vertical, but many of the mobs were worse with more rapters, and adding so many more smokescales, arrowheads, etc. But while it was highly populated, AB is what saved me from quitting GW2. I eventually progressed into Tangled Depths and again was shocked: something worse than VB! I again died my way through TD in order to get to Dragon Stand. And of course there I was stymied as I couldn’t really do much of anything unless the Meta was active.

So HoT was almost a complete disaster for me. I left it after only progressing about 1/4 through the story and only returned because a couple Guildies came back and wanted to do the Story.

There’s another thread on the forums about Anet changing GW2 with extremes. HoT is a perfect example of that. If we had been introduced to the extreme vertical more gradually, and the expansion had more of a variety of maps, I would have liked it much better.

Meanwhile, TD and VB are my two favorite maps in the game by a longshot. So, you’re the developer: What do you do?

LS3 is probably a good indication of ANet’s answer to that question. It features more accessible events and a mix of vertical and flat maps. However, while I don’t mind the flat maps, I would be disappointed if the expansion didn’t feature at least a map or two that follow in the same vein as Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink. I particularly enjoyed exploring and learning these maps and I still return to them frequently.

Let’s hope the compromise is one we can both live with.

I agree I hope the next expac is one we can all live with and ENJOY!

This thread is about how HoT ruined the OP’s GW2 experience. I am relating how it ruined my experience also. If Anet hadn’t made HoT the way it is, our experiences might not have been ruined. And you would never know the difference.

Djinn.9245:

slashlizardy.9167:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

I didn’t play GW2 prior to HoT, and I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have enjoyed it. But for me, HoT was a big hit! How do you reconcile that with some of the opinions on this forum?

Many (most?) of the threads complaining about HoT are from people who played GW2 before HoT like me. I really enjoyed GW2, it was the next MMO I was going to stay with long-term. When HoT was released, I was shocked. I HATED Verdant Brink. The entire experience there was horrible as I died and died – 50% of the time because I didn’t have the new Masteries. My solution was to get out of VB so I died my way across VB to Auric Basin. Auric Basin was better since it wasn’t so vertical, but many of the mobs were worse with more rapters, and adding so many more smokescales, arrowheads, etc. But while it was highly populated, AB is what saved me from quitting GW2. I eventually progressed into Tangled Depths and again was shocked: something worse than VB! I again died my way through TD in order to get to Dragon Stand. And of course there I was stymied as I couldn’t really do much of anything unless the Meta was active.

So HoT was almost a complete disaster for me. I left it after only progressing about 1/4 through the story and only returned because a couple Guildies came back and wanted to do the Story.

There’s another thread on the forums about Anet changing GW2 with extremes. HoT is a perfect example of that. If we had been introduced to the extreme vertical more gradually, and the expansion had more of a variety of maps, I would have liked it much better.

Meanwhile, TD and VB are my two favorite maps in the game by a longshot. So, you’re the developer: What do you do?

LS3 is probably a good indication of ANet’s answer to that question. It features more accessible events and a mix of vertical and flat maps. However, while I don’t mind the flat maps, I would be disappointed if the expansion didn’t feature at least a map or two that follow in the same vein as Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink. I particularly enjoyed exploring and learning these maps and I still return to them frequently.

Let’s hope the compromise is one we can both live with.

I agree I hope the next expac is one we can all live with and ENJOY!

This thread is about how HoT ruined the OP’s GW2 experience. I am relating how it ruined my experience also. If Anet hadn’t made HoT the way it is, our experiences might not have been ruined. And you would never know the difference.

I’m sure HoT ruined the experiences of a relatively small percentage of people, while bringing back other people who raid, or people who like more complex zones and more challenging content.

The fact is, no one can say which group is bigger, which means no one can say if it was well or badly done. I think the casualties here were inevitable, and therefore acceptable.

Anet had to raise difficulty and complexity to move the game forward.

Djinn.9245:

slashlizardy.9167:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

I didn’t play GW2 prior to HoT, and I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have enjoyed it. But for me, HoT was a big hit! How do you reconcile that with some of the opinions on this forum?

Many (most?) of the threads complaining about HoT are from people who played GW2 before HoT like me. I really enjoyed GW2, it was the next MMO I was going to stay with long-term. When HoT was released, I was shocked. I HATED Verdant Brink. The entire experience there was horrible as I died and died – 50% of the time because I didn’t have the new Masteries. My solution was to get out of VB so I died my way across VB to Auric Basin. Auric Basin was better since it wasn’t so vertical, but many of the mobs were worse with more rapters, and adding so many more smokescales, arrowheads, etc. But while it was highly populated, AB is what saved me from quitting GW2. I eventually progressed into Tangled Depths and again was shocked: something worse than VB! I again died my way through TD in order to get to Dragon Stand. And of course there I was stymied as I couldn’t really do much of anything unless the Meta was active.

So HoT was almost a complete disaster for me. I left it after only progressing about 1/4 through the story and only returned because a couple Guildies came back and wanted to do the Story.

There’s another thread on the forums about Anet changing GW2 with extremes. HoT is a perfect example of that. If we had been introduced to the extreme vertical more gradually, and the expansion had more of a variety of maps, I would have liked it much better.

Meanwhile, TD and VB are my two favorite maps in the game by a longshot. So, you’re the developer: What do you do?

LS3 is probably a good indication of ANet’s answer to that question. It features more accessible events and a mix of vertical and flat maps. However, while I don’t mind the flat maps, I would be disappointed if the expansion didn’t feature at least a map or two that follow in the same vein as Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink. I particularly enjoyed exploring and learning these maps and I still return to them frequently.

Let’s hope the compromise is one we can both live with.

I agree I hope the next expac is one we can all live with and ENJOY!

This thread is about how HoT ruined the OP’s GW2 experience. I am relating how it ruined my experience also. If Anet hadn’t made HoT the way it is, our experiences might not have been ruined. And you would never know the difference.

I agree Djinn. If HoT had been more inclusive, instead of restrictive we wouldn’t be seeing the low sales we see now. When core was the only game for sale we had record sales, when HoT only was the game for sale, we had record lows….

slashlizardy.9167:

Djinn.9245:

slashlizardy.9167:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

I didn’t play GW2 prior to HoT, and I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have enjoyed it. But for me, HoT was a big hit! How do you reconcile that with some of the opinions on this forum?

Many (most?) of the threads complaining about HoT are from people who played GW2 before HoT like me. I really enjoyed GW2, it was the next MMO I was going to stay with long-term. When HoT was released, I was shocked. I HATED Verdant Brink. The entire experience there was horrible as I died and died – 50% of the time because I didn’t have the new Masteries. My solution was to get out of VB so I died my way across VB to Auric Basin. Auric Basin was better since it wasn’t so vertical, but many of the mobs were worse with more rapters, and adding so many more smokescales, arrowheads, etc. But while it was highly populated, AB is what saved me from quitting GW2. I eventually progressed into Tangled Depths and again was shocked: something worse than VB! I again died my way through TD in order to get to Dragon Stand. And of course there I was stymied as I couldn’t really do much of anything unless the Meta was active.

So HoT was almost a complete disaster for me. I left it after only progressing about 1/4 through the story and only returned because a couple Guildies came back and wanted to do the Story.

There’s another thread on the forums about Anet changing GW2 with extremes. HoT is a perfect example of that. If we had been introduced to the extreme vertical more gradually, and the expansion had more of a variety of maps, I would have liked it much better.

Meanwhile, TD and VB are my two favorite maps in the game by a longshot. So, you’re the developer: What do you do?

LS3 is probably a good indication of ANet’s answer to that question. It features more accessible events and a mix of vertical and flat maps. However, while I don’t mind the flat maps, I would be disappointed if the expansion didn’t feature at least a map or two that follow in the same vein as Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink. I particularly enjoyed exploring and learning these maps and I still return to them frequently.

Let’s hope the compromise is one we can both live with.

I agree I hope the next expac is one we can all live with and ENJOY!

This thread is about how HoT ruined the OP’s GW2 experience. I am relating how it ruined my experience also. If Anet hadn’t made HoT the way it is, our experiences might not have been ruined. And you would never know the difference.

I agree Djinn. If HoT had been more inclusive, instead of restrictive we wouldn’t be seeing the low sales we see now. When core was the only game for sale we had record sales, when HoT only was the game for sale, we had record lows….

Okay this is a conclusion that has no evidence to support it. We know that sales are down, but we also know that when games are older sales DO go down. So a year and a half after an expansion (particularly after a 9 month content draught) it’s likely that the game lost some players.

You’re making an assumption as to why the game lost those players, without even taking normal attrition into account.

Have you ever compared WoW subscriptions from when they launch their expansion to a year and a half after they’ve launched it.

You want to believe that enough people feel like you that you’re happy to draw the conclusion you drew. But there’s not only no way to prove that conclusion, but in fact,even if fewer people are playing specifically because of what you said, there’s still no way to say that other people haven’t come back to offset those people.

Game is doing less sales per quarter? True.

Normal for just about every single MMO a year and a half after an expansion? Also true.

Hard to say that your reason for displeasure is the reason that’s caused this.

Vayne.8563:

slashlizardy.9167:

Djinn.9245:

slashlizardy.9167:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

I didn’t play GW2 prior to HoT, and I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have enjoyed it. But for me, HoT was a big hit! How do you reconcile that with some of the opinions on this forum?

Many (most?) of the threads complaining about HoT are from people who played GW2 before HoT like me. I really enjoyed GW2, it was the next MMO I was going to stay with long-term. When HoT was released, I was shocked. I HATED Verdant Brink. The entire experience there was horrible as I died and died – 50% of the time because I didn’t have the new Masteries. My solution was to get out of VB so I died my way across VB to Auric Basin. Auric Basin was better since it wasn’t so vertical, but many of the mobs were worse with more rapters, and adding so many more smokescales, arrowheads, etc. But while it was highly populated, AB is what saved me from quitting GW2. I eventually progressed into Tangled Depths and again was shocked: something worse than VB! I again died my way through TD in order to get to Dragon Stand. And of course there I was stymied as I couldn’t really do much of anything unless the Meta was active.

So HoT was almost a complete disaster for me. I left it after only progressing about 1/4 through the story and only returned because a couple Guildies came back and wanted to do the Story.

There’s another thread on the forums about Anet changing GW2 with extremes. HoT is a perfect example of that. If we had been introduced to the extreme vertical more gradually, and the expansion had more of a variety of maps, I would have liked it much better.

Meanwhile, TD and VB are my two favorite maps in the game by a longshot. So, you’re the developer: What do you do?

LS3 is probably a good indication of ANet’s answer to that question. It features more accessible events and a mix of vertical and flat maps. However, while I don’t mind the flat maps, I would be disappointed if the expansion didn’t feature at least a map or two that follow in the same vein as Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink. I particularly enjoyed exploring and learning these maps and I still return to them frequently.

Let’s hope the compromise is one we can both live with.

I agree I hope the next expac is one we can all live with and ENJOY!

This thread is about how HoT ruined the OP’s GW2 experience. I am relating how it ruined my experience also. If Anet hadn’t made HoT the way it is, our experiences might not have been ruined. And you would never know the difference.

I agree Djinn. If HoT had been more inclusive, instead of restrictive we wouldn’t be seeing the low sales we see now. When core was the only game for sale we had record sales, when HoT only was the game for sale, we had record lows….

Okay this is a conclusion that has no evidence to support it. We know that sales are down, but we also know that when games are older sales DO go down. So a year and a half after an expansion (particularly after a 9 month content draught) it’s likely that the game lost some players.

You’re making an assumption as to why the game lost those players, without even taking normal attrition into account.

Have you ever compared WoW subscriptions from when they launch their expansion to a year and a half after they’ve launched it.

You want to believe that enough people feel like you that you’re happy to draw the conclusion you drew. But there’s not only no way to prove that conclusion, but in fact,even if fewer people are playing specifically because of what you said, there’s still no way to say that other people haven’t come back to offset those people.

Game is doing less sales per quarter? True.

Normal for just about every single MMO a year and a half after an expansion? Also true.

Hard to say that your reason for displeasure is the reason that’s caused this.

Look at the game, its trying real hard now not be be a AAA game, its trying to be a niche game now, and because of that it will keep losing people and money.

slashlizardy.9167:

Vayne.8563:

slashlizardy.9167:

Djinn.9245:

slashlizardy.9167:

AliamRationem.5172:

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

I didn’t play GW2 prior to HoT, and I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have enjoyed it. But for me, HoT was a big hit! How do you reconcile that with some of the opinions on this forum?

Many (most?) of the threads complaining about HoT are from people who played GW2 before HoT like me. I really enjoyed GW2, it was the next MMO I was going to stay with long-term. When HoT was released, I was shocked. I HATED Verdant Brink. The entire experience there was horrible as I died and died – 50% of the time because I didn’t have the new Masteries. My solution was to get out of VB so I died my way across VB to Auric Basin. Auric Basin was better since it wasn’t so vertical, but many of the mobs were worse with more rapters, and adding so many more smokescales, arrowheads, etc. But while it was highly populated, AB is what saved me from quitting GW2. I eventually progressed into Tangled Depths and again was shocked: something worse than VB! I again died my way through TD in order to get to Dragon Stand. And of course there I was stymied as I couldn’t really do much of anything unless the Meta was active.

So HoT was almost a complete disaster for me. I left it after only progressing about 1/4 through the story and only returned because a couple Guildies came back and wanted to do the Story.

There’s another thread on the forums about Anet changing GW2 with extremes. HoT is a perfect example of that. If we had been introduced to the extreme vertical more gradually, and the expansion had more of a variety of maps, I would have liked it much better.

Meanwhile, TD and VB are my two favorite maps in the game by a longshot. So, you’re the developer: What do you do?

LS3 is probably a good indication of ANet’s answer to that question. It features more accessible events and a mix of vertical and flat maps. However, while I don’t mind the flat maps, I would be disappointed if the expansion didn’t feature at least a map or two that follow in the same vein as Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink. I particularly enjoyed exploring and learning these maps and I still return to them frequently.

Let’s hope the compromise is one we can both live with.

I agree I hope the next expac is one we can all live with and ENJOY!

This thread is about how HoT ruined the OP’s GW2 experience. I am relating how it ruined my experience also. If Anet hadn’t made HoT the way it is, our experiences might not have been ruined. And you would never know the difference.

I agree Djinn. If HoT had been more inclusive, instead of restrictive we wouldn’t be seeing the low sales we see now. When core was the only game for sale we had record sales, when HoT only was the game for sale, we had record lows….

Okay this is a conclusion that has no evidence to support it. We know that sales are down, but we also know that when games are older sales DO go down. So a year and a half after an expansion (particularly after a 9 month content draught) it’s likely that the game lost some players.

You’re making an assumption as to why the game lost those players, without even taking normal attrition into account.

Have you ever compared WoW subscriptions from when they launch their expansion to a year and a half after they’ve launched it.

You want to believe that enough people feel like you that you’re happy to draw the conclusion you drew. But there’s not only no way to prove that conclusion, but in fact,even if fewer people are playing specifically because of what you said, there’s still no way to say that other people haven’t come back to offset those people.

Game is doing less sales per quarter? True.

Normal for just about every single MMO a year and a half after an expansion? Also true.

Hard to say that your reason for displeasure is the reason that’s caused this.

Look at the game, its trying real hard now not be be a AAA game, its trying to be a niche game now, and because of that it will keep losing people and money.

I am looking at the game. It’s actually pretty successful for a 4.5 year old game between expansions. You’re not looking at the game. You’re looking at what you don’t like about the game.

How can you possibly deny that a year and a half after an expansion on a 4.5 year old game, income decreases?

Vayne.8563:

We know that sales are down, but we also know that when games are older sales DO go down.

Launch quarter sales were also poor, which NCSoft/ArenaNet said themselves were disappointing. The population was estimated to be around 3 million at the time, up from 1 million the previous year, but they only sold around 300k boxes; 500k being generous. Since it’s all estimated however, the population could simply be much lower and down ~50% since their last official reveal years ago, so we won’t know for sure until the next expansion’s sales. Considering the leaks however – them caving and introducing one of the biggest sale items in MMOs – they’ll likely be trying hard to appeal to the masses this time.

slashlizardy.9167:

its trying to be a niche game now

ArenaNet has always been a niche however, as they’re for the gamers rather than the casual majority as seen in most MMOs. The problem is, they heavily nerfed the game during the original 2012 beta due to players face tanking enemies and likely in fear of early losses. If they would have never done that, the difficulty of the core game would have been similar to HoT, where enemies could kill you within seconds right at the start in Queensdale. Going in this direction is obviously bad for business, but if they do plan on continuing, they need to revert the core game instead of misleading players.

Healix.5819:

Vayne.8563:

We know that sales are down, but we also know that when games are older sales DO go down.

Launch quarter sales were also poor, which NCSoft/ArenaNet said themselves were disappointing. The population was estimated to be around 3 million at the time, up from 1 million the previous year, but they only sold around 300k boxes; 500k being generous. Since it’s all estimated however, the population could simply be much lower and down ~50% since their last official reveal years ago, so we won’t know for sure until the next expansion’s sales. Considering the leaks however – them caving and introducing one of the biggest sale items in MMOs – they’ll likely be trying hard to appeal to the masses this time.

slashlizardy.9167:

its trying to be a niche game now

ArenaNet has always been a niche however, as they’re for the gamers rather than the casual majority as seen in most MMOs. The problem is, they heavily nerfed the game during the original 2012 beta due to players face tanking enemies and likely in fear of early losses. If they would have never done that, the difficulty of the core game would have been similar to HoT, where enemies could kill you within seconds right at the start in Queensdale. Going in this direction is obviously bad for business, but if they do plan on continuing, they need to revert the core game instead of misleading players.

I guess my point is this. There is zero way to know that if every zone was flat and as easy as core, there would be know way to know or prove that the game wouldn’t be dong the same or even worse.

If downturn a year after an expansion is an industry norm, and downturn as a game ages is an industry norm, then trying to attribute any reason to a downtrun is just a guess. It’s just a case of confirmation bias.

I’m saying income being lower should be expected, because it pretty much happens across the industry on similar timetables, so trying to attaching a reason to this is not very helpful.

Vayne.8563:

Healix.5819:

Vayne.8563:

We know that sales are down, but we also know that when games are older sales DO go down.

Launch quarter sales were also poor, which NCSoft/ArenaNet said themselves were disappointing. The population was estimated to be around 3 million at the time, up from 1 million the previous year, but they only sold around 300k boxes; 500k being generous. Since it’s all estimated however, the population could simply be much lower and down ~50% since their last official reveal years ago, so we won’t know for sure until the next expansion’s sales. Considering the leaks however – them caving and introducing one of the biggest sale items in MMOs – they’ll likely be trying hard to appeal to the masses this time.

slashlizardy.9167:

its trying to be a niche game now

ArenaNet has always been a niche however, as they’re for the gamers rather than the casual majority as seen in most MMOs. The problem is, they heavily nerfed the game during the original 2012 beta due to players face tanking enemies and likely in fear of early losses. If they would have never done that, the difficulty of the core game would have been similar to HoT, where enemies could kill you within seconds right at the start in Queensdale. Going in this direction is obviously bad for business, but if they do plan on continuing, they need to revert the core game instead of misleading players.

I guess my point is this. There is zero way to know that if every zone was flat and as easy as core, there would be know way to know or prove that the game wouldn’t be dong the same or even worse.

If downturn a year after an expansion is an industry norm, and downturn as a game ages is an industry norm, then trying to attribute any reason to a downtrun is just a guess. It’s just a case of confirmation bias.

I’m saying income being lower should be expected, because it pretty much happens across the industry on similar timetables, so trying to attaching a reason to this is not very helpful.

To add to this, we also have no way of knowing how much Hot difficulty affected sales. There were also other issues that seemed likely to have done so, such as the tumult over various issues such as price point, core bundling, perceived slight to Vets, perceived paucity of content, lack of character slot, etc.

I would like to chime in here since you guys are talking something i agree 100% with.

Anet catering for the easiest road possible. Them nerfing PvE across the board in core GW2. The big one for me and alot of the PvP players was making PvP levels very easy adn accessible for the masses.

I was level 53 or 55 and i had to get 125,000 experience per level and Anet made it base line 20,000. People in Shark needed 200,000 + and Anet basically kittened on all PvP players with that patch.

People who play in certain areas want certain titles/prestige for it.

Im 100% for people who raid having there own raid armor/titles as long as it means WvW players, PvP players and PvE explorers get there own as well.

In Log Horizon the anime certain high level characters have certain special abilities for doing something very few have done in the game.

Anet started out that way and have consistently given in to people who want things easy.

Now Anet came out with a expansion which i guess many believe is struggling and its because they went right down the middle trying to care for everyone.

Healix.5819:

Vayne.8563:

We know that sales are down, but we also know that when games are older sales DO go down.

Launch quarter sales were also poor, which NCSoft/ArenaNet said themselves were disappointing. The population was estimated to be around 3 million at the time, up from 1 million the previous year, but they only sold around 300k boxes; 500k being generous. Since it’s all estimated however, the population could simply be much lower and down ~50% since their last official reveal years ago, so we won’t know for sure until the next expansion’s sales. Considering the leaks however – them caving and introducing one of the biggest sale items in MMOs – they’ll likely be trying hard to appeal to the masses this time.

slashlizardy.9167:

its trying to be a niche game now

ArenaNet has always been a niche however, as they’re for the gamers rather than the casual majority as seen in most MMOs. The problem is, they heavily nerfed the game during the original 2012 beta due to players face tanking enemies and likely in fear of early losses. If they would have never done that, the difficulty of the core game would have been similar to HoT, where enemies could kill you within seconds right at the start in Queensdale. Going in this direction is obviously bad for business, but if they do plan on continuing, they need to revert the core game instead of misleading players.

Which is why I think the Core Tyria mobs need a overhaul to make them work like the LS3 ones. LS3 mob design is just brilliant; they hit hard like the HoT mobs, but they have dodgeable AOEs, tells, and mechanics that make the fights dynamic.

I agree progression, as it is, is simply horrible. You start on Happyville, killing everything by spamming 1. You can have your whole utility slots empty and breeze through the game. They let you know combo fields and break bars are a thing but they are NEVER explained, they show you 4 phrases that let you know they exist but not how to use them.

Then you get thrown into Hellton, the Heart of Maguuma, where that berserker gear falls behind in terms of letting you stay alive, where every 4 steps you see groups of huge veteran mobs with break bars, attacks that need to be properly dodged/locked, confusing tells, and stunlocks (being charged by mordrem from 3 directions at once), AND some mobs even requiring you to grind those pesky, unnecesary masteries to even have a fair chance (Stealth Detection and Acid resistance come to mind).

Then we get LS3 maps whsoe mobs combine the best of both worlds. They are challeinging, have unique mechanics, but they are not frustratinly stupid to fight and teach the player to pay attention and use abilities.

Yea, please dont force us to glide everywhere and jump mushrooms in the next expansion. Some maps its great, but the 15 story map Tangled Depths is super annoying.

everywhere? 90+% of the map is flat, in fact Anet is only offering more complex environments in GW2 for those that are fed up with flat for a couple % of the real estate in the game. Choice is good, no choice is ultimately dull.

If a person cannot comprehend that a great mmorpg’s is about the virtual world as a whole and not just feature x that was introduced x years ago that you look at in isolation then he will never be happy.

vesica tempestas.1563:

everywhere? 90+% of the map is flat, in fact Anet is only offering more complex environments in GW2 for those that are fed up with flat for a couple % of the real estate in the game. Choice is good, no choice is ultimately dull.

If a person cannot comprehend that a great mmorpg’s is about the virtual world as a whole and not just feature x that was introduced x years ago that you look at in isolation then he will never be happy.

Sure choice is great. One of the problems I had with HoT is actually lack of choice: Want this ability: Get MP and EXP in this specific (10% of the game ) area.

Dislike the “experience”? Player advice = Get good and/or play content you dislike until you learn to “like” it… Sorry that kind of kitten does not fly in 2017!

As for your “comprehension/happiness” remark: GW2 as a “virtual world” is, by design, extremely fragmented and limited compared to some other MMO’s. It is simply far, very far from being an example of leading virtual world design.

Finding happiness in a computergame? Joyful, entertained and satisfied works with games people enjoy. Happiness is a completely different ballgame though the mentioned feelings (may – Actually does not have to) play a part.