Guild Wars 2

Many.8419:

Actually I agree with OP. As a dedicated dungeoneer I feel disappointed that no dungeons were mentioned in HoT. I don’t understand why anet is so stubborn to push away from the game the only professional community next to serious pvpers.

I also agree with the OP to an extent. I don’t dislike open world content, but I generally don’t spend much time in the open world in general. I maybe farm a new area ANET introduces if there is some specific item(s) in that new area that I want, but after that…its back to speed runs or random fractal pugs. I do find it disheartening that there is zero mention of any new dungeon(s). I do find open world content to just be a 11111111 spam fest, as the only possible challenges in that type of content are getting enough non-nomads to be able to kill things and getting them to be organized enough to do content that requires any level of organization.

Dungeons/fractals are pretty much the only content type, outside of PvP, that requires a decent level of individual contribution to affect the outcome. You actually notice the difference with a low damage team or people just not pulling their weight. Dungeons/fractals really shouldn’t be abandoned content like it has been.

I can see the reason why they seem to be trying to stay away from dungeons and fractals though. These content types have been the focus of all the hate directed at zerk/assassins players. Its because you can feel/see the individual contribution levels of players in these types of content that non zerk players make such a stink. You can feel/see the slow down in clearing content when you have those nomad staff camping guards in your group. You can feel/see the drop in effectiveness when that minion master or condi necro is in your group. In the past, you could feel/see the huge jump in effectiveness when you had multiple elementalists stacking might and dropping those fiery great swords for your group. When that warrior was still up and half the group was down …but had signet of rage equipped instead of war banner. Dungeons/fractals shine a spot light on disparities in performance, so of course ANET probably wants to make that go away. If they only provide open world content, then it is much harder to feel these disparities.

I doubt it will happen, but by this point I’m kinda hoping they’ll just roll up the dungeons into the different LS episodes.

The “Challenge Mote” at the start of the mission would scale the instance to dungeon lv difficultly: increase mob density, increased health, possibly mini bosses, and more mechanics for the finale boss. As for rewards, they could add in a token system like they do now for a vendor related to that LS season’s skins and a chance for rare specific skins/toys/junk, possibly related to that episode, from the final chests.

As long as it’s instanced, has challenging content that can push people, and the rewards as worth it, I really don’t need “dungeons” per say.

I think the mistake here is calling out a specific part of the game better than the others just because you enjoy it more. OP has a point, and I’m with him in wanting more dungeons as it’s what I enjoy most in a mmo. I’ts obvious quite a few people do. And even if he puts it in form of a threat, he’s very entitled to do whatever he wants with his money. What’s not so cool is calling “zombie key mashers” the people that enjoys living story. You’re not better than them. This shouldn’t be a petty debate about what is more difficult or who is more skilled.

I think that dungeons are pointless unless they don’t allow content skipping and abusing of mechanics like staying in a safe place etc… we don’t need developers to work on more content for dungeon speed runners to skip…

MaXi.3642:

I think that dungeons are pointless unless they don’t allow content skipping and abusing of mechanics like staying in a safe place etc… we don’t need developers to work on more content for dungeon speed runners to skip…

Because you don’t skip anything in the open world….

ODB.6891:

Because you don’t skip anything in the open world….

open world is meant to be open… also you can’t skip the events because you want to kill the boss at the end of event chain, those events have to be finished (not necessarily by you of course, but that’s the point of open world)…

Fully with you here ODB for me:
Silverwastes – waste of space and dead (I never want to revisit the zone again – it’s too easy and too reliant on others who are often clueless eg aoe @copper is bad- this means you struggle pushing the ant up the mountain with a grain of rice).
Been there done it for the armor – have no desire to ever return.

DryTop- I do not want to mindlessly run about farming events for some geodes to get some weapons. All mini/drops from chests can be bought cheaply.

HoT Adventures- I played the beta stress test. The adventure was as mindless and booring as I imagined. Spam 1 hit 2 and dodge occasionally- memorise a route get 150 – I won’t ever be seen again doing it. I have 0 desire for a leaderboard for adventures. Rest gold – never reappear it ever again.
HoT Wyvern-A vet boss: yet again requiring co-ordination and people to learn how the new stun break bar works . Once this is figured out back to spamming 1.
HoT Outpost (Day/Night)- same concept as vine wrath ..not impressed.
HoT Masteries (vertical progression)- whoo I can glide get some stuff will allow for some pretty screen shots. Once I have those mastery items – I will never repeat that content again.
“Challenging open world content”- no thank you. I don’t want to carry others or another 3hd wurm fiasco (TEQ is hardly a challenge after 2 yrs – I turn up at T-1min and org maps with high success ratios).
— awful RNG gating of loot is the only thing keeping people at these events (3HD) or high gold/karma (TEQ) as they need the karma after every other karma nerf.

If people would embrace anets method of progressing to zerker when you understand the content in open world – bosses would die so much faster.
WvW – it’s a lag fest: too unreliable and really not that much fun watching skills not fire off.

Dungeons/Fractals are the only thing keeping me in-game (after 3000+ hrs) as it allows training of new people actually how to play properly and be useful in as a team and understand synergy. If these items were not here – I would have left a long time ago (>7K hrs now).

Ashen.2907:

Were you Nike there as well ? I have some vague recollection of something like that.

Yup . I wanted a laurel crown for my main (for somewhat obvious reasons). What manifested in game was very nice. They even made a few changes I requested to make it compatible with more hair types.

I was certainly pleased when the Wreath of Cooperation appeared here. I won’t say there’s a direct correlation, but I like to think there’s a happy coincidence at work. I know my screen name “Nike” came up in several group meetings at the ANet offices. Maybe the classical imagery wormed its way into the office collective subconscious .

TPMN.1483:

HoT Adventures- I played the beta stress test. The adventure was as mindless and booring as I imagined. Spam 1 hit 2 and dodge occasionally- memorise a route get 150 – I won’t ever be seen again doing it. I have 0 desire for a leaderboard for adventures. Rest gold – never reappear it ever again.
HoT Wyvern-A vet boss: yet again requiring co-ordination and people to learn how the new stun break bar works . Once this is figured out back to spamming 1.
HoT Outpost (Day/Night)- same concept as vine wrath ..not impressed.
HoT Masteries (vertical progression)- whoo I can glide get some stuff will allow for some pretty screen shots. Once I have those mastery items – I will never repeat that content again.
“Challenging open world content”- no thank you. I don’t want to carry others or another 3hd wurm fiasco (TEQ is hardly a challenge after 2 yrs – I turn up at T-1min and org maps with high success ratios).
— awful RNG gating of loot is the only thing keeping people at these events (3HD) or high gold/karma (TEQ) as they need the karma after every other karma nerf.

I dont know if you are telling the truth but above is exactly what i fear to happen in HoT. Every stream i saw was the same (wyvern and vine wrath) and looked pretty much like the usual silverwaste farm runs. And RNG… well, i dont want to be mean but i think Anet has no clue how they could change their loot system, especially the RNG part of it.

My hype for HoT left so far and new dungeons (like for the OP) are the only reason besides WvW to even look at the new add on.

@TPMN
Wow, we are playing totally different games.

TPMN.1483:

Fully with you here ODB for me:
Silverwastes – waste of space and dead (I never want to revisit the zone again – it’s too easy and too reliant on others who are often clueless eg aoe @copper is bad- this means you struggle pushing the ant up the mountain with a grain of rice).
Been there done it for the armor – have no desire to ever return.

SW is actually full all day and night, you not visiting it doesn’t mean it’s dead.

Also, not sure what you mean about Red. Are you saying AoE is a bad thing or a good thing?

TPMN.1483:

DryTop- I do not want to mindlessly run about farming events for some geodes to get some weapons. All mini/drops from chests can be bought cheaply.

Fair enough. But be aware that DT is one of the best places to “get rich quick”.

TPMN.1483:

“Challenging open world content”- no thank you. I don’t want to carry others or another 3hd wurm fiasco (TEQ is hardly a challenge after 2 yrs – I turn up at T-1min and org maps with high success ratios).
— awful RNG gating of loot is the only thing keeping people at these events (3HD) or high gold/karma (TEQ) as they need the karma after every other karma nerf.

Oh boy. Thanks for jumping in 1 min before start and carrying everyone, where would the people be whitout you?

Also, people are really needing karma? Has anyone ever had a karma shortage in GW2? Is that even possible?

TPMN.1483:

WvW – it’s a lag fest: too unreliable and really not that much fun watching skills not fire off.

Try not zerging?

TPMN.1483:

Dungeons/Fractals are the only thing keeping me in-game (after 3000+ hrs) as it allows training of new people actually how to play properly and be useful in as a team and understand synergy. If these items were not here – I would have left a long time ago (>7K hrs now).

This just baffles me. I don’t dare to type /age cause it would make me cry, but how can you find the same maybe 10 hours worth of total content entertaining for 3000+ hours? I’m really genuinly curios.

SW is full – but I’m honestly sick to death of it. I know guildies who no longer have any desire to visit the zones and the horid RNG that exists. Red is good to use AOE – I am not playing prime for my timezone as I’m EU Player on NA. People are mostly hopping map to map in order to maximise rares from the breech/vinewrath.

DryTop is not at all one of the best places to get rich by far . If that’s the only reason people are hopping event to event then people will leave and move onto the next farm map as time goes on (which is what Silverwastes currently is – due to breech hopping).

There is No real challenging open world content at all in this game -I have organised many teqs at this point – it’s not about carrying others. Your maps fate is in the hands of too many others and this is where instanced content comes in.
—yes many need karma still post karma nerfs from all other sources.

WvW- I play on a tier 1 server : we have no choice and get a lag fest . I’m not moving to a lower tier . The game needs to ‘work’. Right now it’s horribly broken.

Why are dungeons/fractals interesting as you can actually ‘train people’ how to play a lot better. It is instanced – there are things you can try/swap about to improve and you’re not reliant on 50+ others who just mess stuff up. (Eg ranged attacks at Golem – get into melee and finish that boss in 3 mins. I 3 man/ solo it faster than a whole Zerg).

Everything I have seen, heard and played on HoT Beta has left me uninspired and genuinely worried about the progression of the game. I expect – once completed a mastery maxed it out- back to dungeons. There is only so much open world content.

Even in GW1- people didn’t vanquish the same zone repetitively on the same character for ‘fun’ this seems to be what ANET think people want. Sry – I just don’t buy into this vision or living story chapters (may repeat a few times – but you will only do once/toon in the long term).

Thats my biggest problem with Silverwastes and Drytop. Im not a fan of open world due to how its played by the masses. But Silverwastes is a map i can bare. Unfortunately Silverwastes take way too long to progress the map wide objective. And thats what prevents me from going back to those maps. Its also the cause of map hopping. Noone stays on the same map because it takes too long to progress. So they find a map which is halfway done. Shorten the map objective and Silverwastes will probably be a bit more long term friendly.

Drytop i just dislike because its not an open map and the map objective is completely timegated. Its frustrating to get around in that map and thats not even including the aspect crystal jumping. Want to get to the other side of the map? Theres a huge impassable cliff so you have to go round. This is probably the fault of releasing the map in multiple sections. I really hope anet never does that again. It completely ruins the flow of a map.

Agreed. No dungeons, no cash.

The OP’s “argument” is null, but the fact that there is no mention about dungeons really bugs me. I love hard instanced encounters and I’d love to see 5-6 new dungeons and 2-3 raids (at least for 10 people). BTW: is anet incapable of making bigger groups than 5? Even the new Stronghold is only for 5 vs 5. Why that?

I am at a total loss as to why the “dungeoneers” representing in here find it necessary to insult other aspects of the game and in so doing the players that enjoy those aspects. Are you attempting to build your case? I have read many posts where people complain about the elitism that dungeons and fractals seem to breed. I was not convinced that this existed since I had my fill of the dungeons in GW2 long ago. Reading some of these responses, and to a certain extent, the OP (as well as other, related threads), I can see where this impression comes from. Why solidify the negative image some dungeon runners seem to have manifested by crying about how OW is just “spamming 11111111” et al? Where is the community in that kind of attitude? It’s no wonder some new folks shy away from doing dungeons. Pontificating about how you’ve “mastered” “difficult” content does not make you better than those who don’t enjoy the content that you do. If you want to pigeon hole yourself into one tiny aspect of what this game has to offer overall then go right ahead and do it. But do at least attempt to refrain from chest beating and posturing. Each of us have our likes and dislikes. None is more correct than the other and stating a preference really amounts to, well, nothing. To have to resort to hyperbole, name calling, minimizing etc. illustrates desperation more than it does validity.

Frankly, I am looking very forward to HoT. I really like the approach they’ve taken in SW and DT. I hope they do try some different things and I respect that they have the guts to do it, even though there are a percentage of players out there who can’t think outside the “5-10 man instanced raid” box. I like the idea of profound and epic dangers in the open world as opposed to crawling through some dank hidden space somewhere (though I do enjoy that as well) and I want to see Anet succeed at creating that kind of OW intensity. I will keep my mind open. I don’t care at all if there aren’t new dungeons or fractals. I am a paying customer and player, just like all of you.

@munki
What are these “profound and epic dangers in the open world” you speak of?

With 4 chars at 100% map complete, killed every world boss many times, I’ve yet to encounter anything with “profound and epic danger”. Care to enlighten an elitist dungeoneer like myself?

Artemis Thuras.8795:

@munki
What are these “profound and epic dangers in the open world” you speak of?

With 4 chars at 100% map complete, killed every world boss many times, I’ve yet to encounter anything with “profound and epic danger”. Care to enlighten an elitist dungeoneer like myself?

I was talking about the upcoming expansion. Thanks for skimming my post.

munki.6402:

I am at a total loss as to why the “dungeoneers” representing in here find it necessary to insult other aspects of the game

tell this to open world pew pew heroes calling dungeoneers cornerstacking exploiters

Many.8419:

munki.6402:

I am at a total loss as to why the “dungeoneers” representing in here find it necessary to insult other aspects of the game

tell this to open world pew pew heroes calling dungeoneers cornerstacking exploiters

So sinking to their level solves the issue? OK.

munki.6402:

Many.8419:

munki.6402:

I am at a total loss as to why the “dungeoneers” representing in here find it necessary to insult other aspects of the game

tell this to open world pew pew heroes calling dungeoneers cornerstacking exploiters

So sinking to their level solves the issue? OK.

No but there is no issue with open world pew pew content.
You’re getting your precious pew pew stuff, we dont our cornerstacking utopia. This is the issue. We dont care about your silly gliders or stupid world bosses melted with autoattack. We want to sit with our organised teams in instances so we dont have to deal with random ppl. This is why we want dungeons.

MaXi.3642:

I think that dungeons are pointless unless they don’t allow content skipping and abusing of mechanics like staying in a safe place etc… we don’t need developers to work on more content for dungeon speed runners to skip…

I would personally like these content skipping/stacking “features” to go away as well but I’m not sure how possible that is.

Of course, that being said, there is nothing from stopping groups from doing the dungeons/encounters the way intended. My group does it all the time. In AC runs we don’t stack on Koehler or the end bosses.

Twilight Arbor Forward Path, we don’t rush/skip all the mobs down the long path (though using stealth to get past them is, I feel, a very valid tactic. Stealth should be good for things).

Most of my complaints are with stacking in places which bug out mechanics over stealthing past stuff which I have no issue with.

And all that being said, our guild of just 7 are all dungeoners and we’re all hoping they come through somehow with dungeons or dungeon like situations where it’s a small group of no more then 10 for encounters of stuff. I don’t like big zergs. They are the most boring part of this game. But all the big events recently force you into that kind of stuff. At least the marionette stuck you in small groups of like 6 or so on those platforms. That was a better way to do a zerg encounter, I thought.

But at best I assume we’ll get a few new fractal dungeons which is at least something and no real DUNGEON dungeon. I think otherwise they would have used the word dungeon by now.

mr lexus

stacking is almost gone after fgs nerf

and skipping can be a part of the challenge if you treat it as a jumping puzzle with mobs, there’s no reason to kill hundreds of trash mobs and some areas are even created to be skipped – long corridors with stunning or knocking down mobs? this is supposed to be skipped

munki.6402:

It’s no wonder some new folks shy away from doing dungeons. Pontificating about how you’ve “mastered” “difficult” content does not make you better than those who don’t enjoy the content that you do.

It makes you more skilled at games than the people that quit on the first room of dungeons because they refuse anything challenging. Nobody is saying it has anything to do with judging a person’s character for crying out loud… but there are skilled and unskilled people at everything.

Unfortunately the group that wants skill based challenges and obstacles in GW2 got screwed over.

There’s no:

- No functional team interaction. GW2 really has close to none. It’s a mosh everywhere you go from WvW to PVE. The ‘identity’ and ‘impact’ an individual character has is near zero. In fact I’d suggest the only mechanic in the entire game that really matters and is class dependent is mesmer portals. One mechanic! Which is really insane for an MMO with 8 profs. Team Fortress 2… a “brainless” shooter… has actual class relevance, while GW2 an MMO does not. That’s weird.

- Event/story design in the game is ridiculously confusing. They make so many open world missions where the objectives morph into bizarre lists of goals that 90% of the people can’t even figure out while their screen is full of exploding particle effects. This makes the ‘hit 1’ joke a very real thing, because most events you don’t learn the story until playing 5 times… (never mind the absurdity that you’re replaying the same event to find out what happened.) How is this content a good stage for teamwork? It’s not so they replaced it with boring self heal and EZ res, and yes even a self res.

The content seems to have two goals only: To make you invincible, and to be confusing. There’s nothing about skill in it.

-Dungeons are supposed to build on clear game design and take teamwork learned elsewhere to the extreme, but the problem is GW2 doesn’t have clear game design or any teamwork. So people exposed to dungeons might not know what a dungeon is even all about. Orr had the same problem.They’ll gripe about it not being good, but the reality is they’ve been conditioned to play the game with a drinking bird hitting their keyboard. To Anet’s credit, they finally came up with a solution by making Fractals an accessible objective-based area that at the very least was worth playing. Then they decided, as they have a zillion time in this bloated game, that Fractals was just another experiment and they never have to update it.

So then here we are. Guild Wars 2 has been out for a long time but the question is becoming louder than ever: what is the point of the game? Is the point another 2 years of moshing and mystic toilet before they announce GW3? Because at that point I’ll feel scammed on this entire sequel. I thought it was supposed to be an epic adventure. Tyria is feeling more like a flea market at this point… with lots of junk everywhere but nothing to remember forever as an adventurer.

Many.8419:

mr lexus

stacking is almost gone after fgs nerf

and skipping can be a part of the challenge if you treat it as a jumping puzzle with mobs, there’s no reason to kill hundreds of trash mobs and some areas are even created to be skipped – long corridors with stunning or knocking down mobs? this is supposed to be skipped

I can’t help but feel that most people refer to AC when they talk like that. Where the skips are cakewalks, get in arah and I feel exactly as you do on the skips. It’s an interesting challenge to know when to use different skills to avoid gtting in combat or even dying.

munki.6402:

I am at a total loss as to why the “dungeoneers” representing in here find it necessary to insult other aspects of the game and in so doing the players that enjoy those aspects. Are you attempting to build your case?

I remember a little while ago people said that PVP’ers had the most Toxic community in MMO’s

I think those people may want to revisit that statement and add some things to it.

Jerus.4350:

Many.8419:

mr lexus

stacking is almost gone after fgs nerf

and skipping can be a part of the challenge if you treat it as a jumping puzzle with mobs, there’s no reason to kill hundreds of trash mobs and some areas are even created to be skipped – long corridors with stunning or knocking down mobs? this is supposed to be skipped

I can’t help but feel that most people refer to AC when they talk like that. Where the skips are cakewalks, get in arah and I feel exactly as you do on the skips. It’s an interesting challenge to know when to use different skills to avoid gtting in combat or even dying.

arah p2 skip after alphard… after stability change it is a really pain in the kitten and I like it

Jerus.4350:

Many.8419:

mr lexus

stacking is almost gone after fgs nerf

and skipping can be a part of the challenge if you treat it as a jumping puzzle with mobs, there’s no reason to kill hundreds of trash mobs and some areas are even created to be skipped – long corridors with stunning or knocking down mobs? this is supposed to be skipped

I can’t help but feel that most people refer to AC when they talk like that. Where the skips are cakewalks, get in arah and I feel exactly as you do on the skips. It’s an interesting challenge to know when to use different skills to avoid gtting in combat or even dying.

Which arah path are you referring to?
Because they still have a couple of quick paths that you can skip through.
Same in HoW,SE, and CoE
You have mobs and area’s people skip just for speed, and because the mobs dont matter.

People skip some parts of dungeons because they learned how to do it and because trash loot is terrible in this game. After 3 years of mastering those dungeons the only challenge there is left is time spent for completing the path.

Well, for biased ppl there is only cornerstacking.

The beauty of instances is you dont have to do the content a certain way. You can do it however you like. That same choice isnt possible in open world. You either zerg it or zerg it.

spoj.9672:

The beauty of instances is you dont have to do the content a certain way. You can do it however you like. That same choice isnt possible in open world. You either zerg it or zerg it.

Absolutely.

I honestly think that open loot systems do the exact opposite of what the manifesto says they do.

Because the goal is supposed to be that your fun level goes up when other people do content with you — which is the exact opposite of what happens when gameplay incentives encourage whole zergs to show up for events.

If anyone here that says they agree with the OP (NO DUNGEONS NO CASH) comes on here and meets me in meguuma after release (or proves they’re in expanion content), I’ll gladly give them 5G, at the cost of taking a screenshot proving that they didn’t actually agree with the OP.

Windsagio.1340:

If anyone here that says they agree with the OP (NO DUNGEONS NO CASH) comes on here and meets me in meguuma after release (or proves they’re in expanion content), I’ll gladly give them 5G, at the cost of taking a screenshot proving that they didn’t actually agree with the OP.

This thread isnt for you but for anet to read. Who are you I should care about reporting to you my game activity? You are noone here. Only red posts matter.

Many.8419:

Windsagio.1340:

If anyone here that says they agree with the OP (NO DUNGEONS NO CASH) comes on here and meets me in meguuma after release (or proves they’re in expanion content), I’ll gladly give them 5G, at the cost of taking a screenshot proving that they didn’t actually agree with the OP.

This thread isnt for you but for anet to read. Who are you I should care about reporting to you my game activity? You are noone here. Only red posts matter.

I don’t expect anyone to take me up, it’s more a prediction.

These threats are almost always empty air, and happen with every game now, regardless of the subject or the content

People on their own aren’t going to admit that they bought HoT despite the posturing, but I’d pay (a potentially sizable amount of) gold to prove the point.