Guild Wars 2

sophiewhite.3149:

Vayne.8563:

sophiewhite.3149:

General Health.9678:

Djinn.9245:

The objection is how the game has gone from being able to get XP for your character by doing anything you want in the game, to not being able to get XP/Spirit Shards unless you follow the very narrow path that Anet has dictated.

Maybe many players don’t mind this lack of choice. Or maybe Spirit Shards aren’t something that they need or want. But going from complete freedom of choice to a single path for progressing my character is not fun game play for me. I prefer choices.

Apples and oranges, you can’t compare pre-hot to post-hot and add shards.

I’m really unclear whether you’re complaining because this is affecting you or if you’re complaining on behalf of everyone because the wider playerbase doesn’t seem be complaining about this, it’s mentioned in a couple of places and people are either “do a simple raid”, “who cares about shards” or “oh my god this game sucks because anet forces us to raid (or whatever flavour of the month thing it is people suddenly take offence to)”. If you personally need to raid as the last thing to unlock spirit shards and you really, really want shards.. join a guild that offers training raids and just run one. It’s one tiny thing being blown out of all proportion.

Maybe there will be another way to get spirit shards in the future, maybe there’ll even be a need for them in the future.. in the meantime, try raids, might even enjoy them. Chances are if you are already frustrated by the rest of HoT you will not be able to but plenty of people here will show you round the HoT maps if you ask and the metas are really good fun, missing out if you’ve not tried them.

honestly im not sure how people can hate raids when they clearly never gave them a chance. find a guild. theyll group you up and youll never need to do it again.

But I have done raids. I don’t hate them, but I don’t love them either. I’d simply rather not spend potentially hours doing something I don’t enjoy. Why would I want that?

people have commented you only have to do it once though.

After which you do still have to spend hours gaining xp to complete all the masteries you don’t care about before you can gain xp normally again for the shards. You only need a few masteries to complete the story in the end and most of the work of completing masteries are the higher level masteries that progress much more slowly.

So yeah, people did say you only have to go in there once but some people fear raid content because they are aware that they are not very good at such things and rather than getting shouted at by people they’d prefer to just not deal with it at all.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Maybe there is some confusion between what you are referring to ‘experience’ and what previously was leveling up/gaining Skill Points. ArenaNet did separate Hero Points from Spirit Shards, and from that time until Heart of Thorns was released we gained nothing whatsoever each time we leveled up again after L80. Thus, after ‘leveling up’ Mastery Tracks, we acquired nothing at all, again, until this recent patch.

Yeah, having Skill Points play the dual role of character growth and currency was cumbersome, but the solution wasn’t the best, which is why I hope that this new reward system can be expanded upon.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Now, those that have finished all Mastery Tracks (XP accrued and Mastery Points spent) for a region can gain Spirit Shards. Those that are concerned feel having to unlock the Raid track by raiding is unfair, as no one was required to set foot in a Fractal to unlock the Fractal track (just as an example).

Given that they are able to create an experience bar which fills and empties with a reward (unlike Masteries), my wish list would be the following (not having any clue if the programming can handle this):

1. Expand the possible rewards given when its filled.
2. Allow for the players to contribute to this bar any time their current mastery is full (i.e. they haven’t spent the mastery points to unlock it)

The main problem with my idea that I see (programming aside), is communicating what is happening to the players. It would require some slick UI work to make it not seem like that experience bar has a mind of its own, especially when trying to figure out if you’re growing a mastery, or if it’s done and you’re now growing a reward bar.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Considering that gaining 1 Spirit Shard every few days on top of the 20-50 one accrues in the course of acquiring enough XP to fill a track seems negligible, I’m not sure what the outcry is over Spirit Shards, but I understand the principle behind it.

I’m totally fine with principle; Anet’s heard a few choice words from me concerning some of the HoT release details. Speaking up is very important, and I hope no one took my words as an attempt to squash them. My only goal was to try to add some clarity when I saw people crossing two separate issues (the rewards locked behind completing raids vs. experience equating to shards), and another poor poster getting turned around because of that.

Greener.6204:

Djinn.9245:

Greener.6204:

Bandrell.4357:

So basically what you are saying is, if you are gaining experience while on a mastery track that is at its end-be it complete or not-that excess XP should be converted into spirit shards, yet it isn’t?

If it doesn’t currently work this way because they’ve locked spirit shard gain behind training ALL masteries-including RAID masteries-completely, I cannot say that I agree with that design decision. MMORPG game design shouldn’t be predicated on the expectation that players will be encouraged or motivated to participate in every game mode that the game offers in order to progress. Particularly a game whose stance is “Play your way”.

Ugh, that would be a pain if it worked that way. But no, don’t worry. A year ago they separated spirit shards and XP from each other. They have no relationship.

Since then, people have been wanting something to be done with the XP they were getting once their mastery bar was filled. Anet’s put one thing in place, and people are currently hoping that this can be massaged to cover more players in more situations.

You apparently are not aware that AFTER you complete ALL Mastery tracks, you go back to gaining Spirit Shards for each “level”. This is actually the entire point of this thread. “They have no relationship” is incorrect.

I’m more than aware of the changes. The main problem that the poster was facing was that a lot of people conflate spirit shards and experience. This is a mistake that I see you made above, and I tried to correct it there.

Anet purposefully removed the relationship between spirit shards and experience over a year ago. They did this to encourage people to play the game how they wished, and still get rewarded for it. Since WvW and PvP have their own leveling systems, players would not have been able to receive spirit shards from the PvE levels. Now everyone has access to them simply by playing the game style they prefer.

Since then, as I say in what you quoted, they’ve gone and added rewards for people who have completed masteries, which is what people have been clamoring for. Is it currently a perfect system? Of course not. Are people looking for it to be improved? Of course. Imagine how amazingly this could be expanded? If you don’t need spirit shards, could you perhaps choose mystic coins? Or maybe you’d prefer a tome of knowledge?

My response to the poster was to alleviate their concerns that a system was broken, and explain to them that what they’re seeing is a new system being brought on board.

Edited for clarity’s sake

They only removed the relationship for a while. Currently, after completing all Masteries, when a player fills his Experience bar (with Experience Points), they get a Spirit Shard. That is a definite relationship to me.

Djinn.9245:

They only removed the relationship for a while. Currently, after completing all Masteries, when a player fills his Experience bar (with Experience Points), they get a Spirit Shard. That is a definite relationship to me.

Ah, okay, I’m willing to change that if you wish. I didn’t believe a full qualification was needed when helping out that poster:

For the vast majority of players, spirit shards have no relationship with experience. You get them by just playing the game. For the small portion who have completed their masteries, there’s a tiny relationship (you get very few from that bar, far less than natural play). I hope that they’ll soon make this more inclusive.

Ahh..I understand what you are saying now, Greener. It used to be that players could only acquire the equivalent of Spirit Shards (Skill Points) from either Skill Challenges or by leveling up after 80. Then, ArenaNet removed the need to level up to acquire Spirit Shards, as they are available from Loot Boxes/Bags, Dailies, random drops, Tomes of Knowledge, Noxious Pods, etc., thus removing them from their association with XP (until now, if the requirements are met).

Gotcha. (Sorry, I’m slow sometimes…lol.)

I’ve never darkened the door of raids, but I’m getting spirit shards via experience again on all my 80s.

I believe that there are many players (>95%) with HoT but can’t access to Spirit Shard bonus due to being gated by raid mastery. Is it really necessary to gate the reward behind raid content? Fractals are challenging contents in Central Tyria, and Fractal mastery line can be unlocked automatically without defeating any boss or fractals. Why doesn’t raid mastery line adopt the same approach as fractal one?

I’ve tried raid, but lack of any successs. I have to work and don’t have much time for tedious contents (but hope to get them done anytime soon.) I still have faith in GW2 that it’s a casual game and provides fair play for everyone.

Now, LFR is pretty much this:

Daddicus.6128:

I’ve never darkened the door of raids, but I’m getting spirit shards via experience again on all my 80s.

In core zones only, i bet. Not in Bloodstone Fen, for example.

I was one of those prior to this patch who yeared for xp over cap to be useful again. Now it is …..sort of. -_-

Lately, anet have been reminding me of microsoft. Whenever microsoft put out something, especially if it’s to fix a problem, the solution gets part of the way there and then… you have to wonder what they were thinking. It’s like they can’t fix something without breaking something else.

I don’t agree with this design of locking the xp rewards behind completing all masteries, and especially behind raid masteries. And I say that as a person who’s completed all masteries and doesn’t care about spirit shards. I don’t have a horse in the race. But I do have an interest in good design, and this is not it. It makes post-cap xp useful again only in a very specific circumstances. As a solution, it’s a kludge and it suggests things about anet’s experience of their own game or their motivation to find the best solution for this that aren’t altogether complimentary.

EDIT: fixing forum censoring issues. sigh.

Ayrilana.1396:

Vayne.8563:

Ayrilana.1396:

Vayne.8563:

Ayrilana.1396:

Zalani.9827:

Ayrilana.1396:

Zalani.9827:

Its not the end of the world but it is pretty bad design to not account for it in this type of game imo.

“I don’t like it” does not equate to “bad design”.

Its bad(or perhaps poor?) design to force people into a game mode they have no interest in when everything else can be completed in the open world. I can see it in games like WoW but It’s not needed in a more casual game like Gw2.

And I never said I don’t like, im actually pretty neutral since I don’t care about spirit shards. I’m merely making a comment on it with how I see it.

Legendary weapons have “forced” players into other game modes since launch. Achievement hunters have been “forced” to do other game modes to maximize their AP count. It is not poor design to have systems that cross over several areas in a game to encourage players to play in those areas no matter how brief it may be in comparison to their usually mode of play.

The escort event is pretty easy. We almost beat it within a couple hours with random players (most had no prior experience with it) with random builds/classes. We easily saw the progression that we were making and would have beaten it within the next few attempts. One of the key things is for players to actually pay attention and to realize that the red rings are bad since the traps kill you. You will need a Mesmer with the the raid masteries, or a few other players, as the tunnel requires a certain mastery.

Okay this is very misleading. I in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Of course, I didn’t find that out till I tried to do it with my guild tonight. They were not happy.

It’s not misleading. Read the bolded.

What’s misleading is saying it’s easily accomplished, like this is somehow easier than doing a raid boss. It’s difficult, you have to get a group to do it and it sucks. I know cause I tried it with my guild.

Your entire response to mine was about the masteries and not about the ease of doing the raid escort. You yourself even said it was easy if you have a group with people that have the masteries.

No I didn’t say it was easy if you had a group that had masteries, because I’ve never actually done it.

The problem is, if you have a group that has the masteries you’ve probably raided before. It’s not that easy to get a group to together that has masteries, just to get that done.

People who don’t raid don’t raid for a reason. Many of them are casual and don’t do things that require getting organized in a group of ten. Many don’t pug. And often people who raid aren’t interested in people who have no idea about raids and don’t care about them.

There’s nothing easy to a casual about getting into a raid to get that done.

Spirit Shards are useless anyway, you get so many of them and if you would want to convert them to gold you would have to click yourself to a broken mouse and carpal tunnel syndrome.

Vayne.8563:

Ayrilana.1396:

Vayne.8563:

Ayrilana.1396:

Vayne.8563:

Ayrilana.1396:

Zalani.9827:

Ayrilana.1396:

Zalani.9827:

Its not the end of the world but it is pretty bad design to not account for it in this type of game imo.

“I don’t like it” does not equate to “bad design”.

Its bad(or perhaps poor?) design to force people into a game mode they have no interest in when everything else can be completed in the open world. I can see it in games like WoW but It’s not needed in a more casual game like Gw2.

And I never said I don’t like, im actually pretty neutral since I don’t care about spirit shards. I’m merely making a comment on it with how I see it.

Legendary weapons have “forced” players into other game modes since launch. Achievement hunters have been “forced” to do other game modes to maximize their AP count. It is not poor design to have systems that cross over several areas in a game to encourage players to play in those areas no matter how brief it may be in comparison to their usually mode of play.

The escort event is pretty easy. We almost beat it within a couple hours with random players (most had no prior experience with it) with random builds/classes. We easily saw the progression that we were making and would have beaten it within the next few attempts. One of the key things is for players to actually pay attention and to realize that the red rings are bad since the traps kill you. You will need a Mesmer with the the raid masteries, or a few other players, as the tunnel requires a certain mastery.

Okay this is very misleading. I in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Of course, I didn’t find that out till I tried to do it with my guild tonight. They were not happy.

It’s not misleading. Read the bolded.

What’s misleading is saying it’s easily accomplished, like this is somehow easier than doing a raid boss. It’s difficult, you have to get a group to do it and it sucks. I know cause I tried it with my guild.

Your entire response to mine was about the masteries and not about the ease of doing the raid escort. You yourself even said it was easy if you have a group with people that have the masteries.

No I didn’t say it was easy if you had a group that had masteries, because I’ve never actually done it.

The problem is, if you have a group that has the masteries you’ve probably raided before. It’s not that easy to get a group to together that has masteries, just to get that done.

People who don’t raid don’t raid for a reason. Many of them are casual and don’t do things that require getting organized in a group of ten. Many don’t pug. And often people who raid aren’t interested in people who have no idea about raids and don’t care about them.

There’s nothing easy to a casual about getting into a raid to get that done.

You kind of did say that it was easy. You said:

in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

The only exception being finding a group who have already unlocked the mastery. If you refer back to my post that you first quoted, I stated that you only need a Mesmer or a few players that have the mastery. You only need it for the tunnel.

Getting a group is really not more difficult than doing a dungeon. You put up a LFG and then wait for people to join. Sometimes the group fills up quickly and other times it doesn’t. Just be sure to put in the description that you will need some people with the mastery and that there are people who have not beaten it before.

If you had not done the escort then I don’t really see how you can state whether it is easy or not. I am confused though since just earlier you said that you had done it. So which is it?

Vayne.8563:

What’s misleading is saying it’s easily accomplished, like this is somehow easier than doing a raid boss. It’s difficult, you have to get a group to do it and it sucks. I know cause I tried it with my guild.

Ayrilana.1396:

You kind of did say that it was easy. You said:

in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Okay, read that again, but this time look at the part you missed:

in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Yes, it’s easy if you’re getting carried by raiders. Not so easy if you try to unlock the mastery track on your own though.

Ayrilana.1396:

The only exception being finding a group who have already unlocked the mastery.

That’s a very big exception however.

Ayrilana.1396:

If you had not done the escort then I don’t really see how you can state whether it is easy or not. I am confused though since just earlier you said that you had done it. So which is it?

Vayne.8563:

What’s misleading is saying it’s easily accomplished, like this is somehow easier than doing a raid boss. It’s difficult, you have to get a group to do it and it sucks. I know cause I tried it with my guild.

I see Vayne saying he attempted it. Do not see him claiming he did it succesfully though. I assume that trying it, but without success is what he meant.

My take on this encounter: doable, but with a problem that if done by people new to raids, all people with experience with the encounter will end up in the tunnel group. Which will likely cause a ton of wipes before the other group will learn what to do.

I like that a workaround for this problem exists. I don’t like that a workaround is needed.

This is a basic game mechanic and it shouldn’t be locked behind raids. Especially since raiders constitute such a small group of players. The raid masteries should either be unlockable without a boss kill or not count towards the experience bar progression while they’re locked. At no point should players be forced to raid to unlock a basic game mechanic like gaining experience.

Sabetha.4910:

I’m a raider. I haven’t completed the last Nuhoch mastery, and I don’t get shards in HoT maps as well. It’s fine in core Tyrian zones though, so it’s outright wrong how you’re not getting spirit shards at all.

My suggestion: Instead of complaining about how raid masteries are ‘strong-arming’ you into a raid you don’t like, try and get 10 people for wing 3’s first encounter. It’s basically an extended event with no time limit, and incredibly easy to do. It unlocks your mastery, and you’ll never need to raid ever again.

Otherwise, there isn’t a problem – unless you choose to make it a problem yourself.

Probably worth mentioning, escort doesn’t unlock raid masteries for some reason. I know this from personal experience. Was the first raid I ever beat and didn’t get an unlock.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

You kind of did say that it was easy. You said:

in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Okay, read that again, but this time look at the part you missed:

in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Yes, it’s easy if you’re getting carried by raiders. Not so easy if you try to unlock the mastery track on your own though.

It was not missed. The bolded part of yours was just a redundant part of his post which was a repetition the first part. I also said nothing about getting carried. Having a few people that have the mastery does not equal to being carried.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

The only exception being finding a group who have already unlocked the mastery.

That’s a very big exception however.

Not really. No more difficult than a group of players trying to find someone able to open fractal 100 or fractal 72. Had nothing to do with the actually difficulty of the encounter which was what I was talking about in my post that he responded to.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

If you had not done the escort then I don’t really see how you can state whether it is easy or not. I am confused though since just earlier you said that you had done it. So which is it?

Vayne.8563:

What’s misleading is saying it’s easily accomplished, like this is somehow easier than doing a raid boss. It’s difficult, you have to get a group to do it and it sucks. I know cause I tried it with my guild.

I see Vayne saying he attempted it. Do not see him claiming he did it succesfully though. I assume that trying it, but without success is what he meant.

My take on this encounter: doable, but with a problem that if done by people new to raids, all people with experience with the encounter will end up in the tunnel group. Which will likely cause a ton of wipes before the other group will learn what to do.

No. In his earlier post he said that he did attempt it with his guild. In his recent post he said that he has never done it. How are those two statements the same? They’re not.

My initial post was me stating that the escort itself is pretty easy to do. I’m not the only one who have agreed it’s one of the easier encounters to do in the raid. At the end of that post I gave a disclaimer that you either need a mesmer with the specific mastery or a few people with it.

He then responded that I was being misleading because in order to do the raid, players need the mastery. He also repeated himself saying that they needed to join a raid group with it unlocked. This was also where he did state that the encounter was easy with the exception of creating the group which has nothing to do with the actual encounter. Would Arah be considered a difficult dungeon to beat because it’s not as easy as AC to get a group together? No.

He completely disregarded my post where I stated that only a mesmer for a few people actually need the mastery. I pointed this out to him by telling him to read that specific part of my post which I had bolded. I was also speaking about the encounter itself in my original post.

He responded back by saying that I was being misleading by saying it was easier to accomplish than any other raid boss. He’s wrong as it is quite easy to do in comparison and many other players have agreed. It’s often one of the encounters ranked as the easiest before any of the actual boss encounters. He then went on again about getting a group for it which has nothing to do with the difficulty of the encounter itself.

I then responded back to him that he had stated that was easy with a group of players who had the masteries. I also reminded him again that I was speaking about the difficulty of the encounter which had nothing to do with getting 1-3 players who already had the mastery unlocked.

He then responded back that he didn’t state that it was easy to do with a group that has the mastery despite him stating just that in the earlier post. He then goes on about the accessibility of raids which has nothing to do with what I originally said.

I’m running late so I’m going to wrap this up. I pointed out that he said that it was easy. There were several contradictions in this thread between his posts. And then there was your post.

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

You kind of did say that it was easy. You said:

in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Okay, read that again, but this time look at the part you missed:

in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Yes, it’s easy if you’re getting carried by raiders. Not so easy if you try to unlock the mastery track on your own though.

It was not missed. The bolded part of yours was just a redundant part of his post which was a repetition the first part. I also said nothing about getting carried. Having a few people that have the mastery does not equal to being carried.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

The only exception being finding a group who have already unlocked the mastery.

That’s a very big exception however.

Not really. No more difficult than a group of players trying to find someone able to open fractal 100 or fractal 72. Had nothing to do with the actually difficulty of the encounter which was what I was talking about in my post that he responded to.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

If you had not done the escort then I don’t really see how you can state whether it is easy or not. I am confused though since just earlier you said that you had done it. So which is it?

Vayne.8563:

What’s misleading is saying it’s easily accomplished, like this is somehow easier than doing a raid boss. It’s difficult, you have to get a group to do it and it sucks. I know cause I tried it with my guild.

I see Vayne saying he attempted it. Do not see him claiming he did it succesfully though. I assume that trying it, but without success is what he meant.

My take on this encounter: doable, but with a problem that if done by people new to raids, all people with experience with the encounter will end up in the tunnel group. Which will likely cause a ton of wipes before the other group will learn what to do.

No. In his earlier post he said that he did attempt it with his guild. In his recent post he said that he has never done it. How are those two statements the same? They’re not.

My initial post was me stating that the escort itself is pretty easy to do. I’m not the only one who have agreed it’s one of the easier encounters to do in the raid. At the end of that post I gave a disclaimer that you either need a mesmer with the specific mastery or a few people with it.

He then responded that I was being misleading because in order to do the raid, players need the mastery. He also repeated himself saying that they needed to join a raid group with it unlocked. This was also where he did state that the encounter was easy with the exception of creating the group which has nothing to do with the actual encounter. Would Arah be considered a difficult dungeon to beat because it’s not as easy as AC to get a group together? No.

He completely disregarded my post where I stated that only a mesmer for a few people actually need the mastery. I pointed this out to him by telling him to read that specific part of my post which I had bolded. I was also speaking about the encounter itself in my original post.

He responded back by saying that I was being misleading by saying it was easier to accomplish than any other raid boss. He’s wrong as it is quite easy to do in comparison and many other players have agreed. It’s often one of the encounters ranked as the easiest before any of the actual boss encounters. He then went on again about getting a group for it which has nothing to do with the difficulty of the encounter itself.

I then responded back to him that he had stated that was easy with a group of players who had the masteries. I also reminded him again that I was speaking about the difficulty of the encounter which had nothing to do with getting 1-3 players who already had the mastery unlocked.

He then responded back that he didn’t state that it was easy to do with a group that has the mastery despite him stating just that in the earlier post. He then goes on about the accessibility of raids which has nothing to do with what I originally said.

I’m running late so I’m going to wrap this up. I pointed out that he said that it was easy. There were several contradictions in this thread between his posts. And then there was your post.

I attempted it, but never completed it. Is that clearer for you?

Djinn.9245:

GW2 used to be a game in which I could gain XP for my character in any way I chose:

You can still do this.

Djinn.9245:

With the introduction of HoT, this has been changed to ONLY getting XP through the Mastery system. I no longer have a choice how I progress my character because there aren’t enough MP in any of the single modes for me to play ONLY how I choose.

You still get XP in all the ways you talked about until you are 80. Nothing changed. HoT ADDED post 80 progression, nothing about the old GW2 changed for levelling. If you want to play ONLY how you choose you’ll nerf yourself in core as well. I have no idea how much it would cost in time or money to level just by crafting (or even what the point would be) but a normal person, as we are being general about the playerbase here, will do hearts and map completion and try a dungeon and a fractal and the crafting system and so on. Post 80, with the new HoT stuff you are still doing all those things. What things do you hate that is stopping you get MPs? Surely all the things that pre-HoT you count as “playing your way”? What specifically do you need. I can’t promise I can get you those things but I’d be happy to come try unless it was anything in Dry Top as I am not a fan of it, makes me itchy.

[/quote]You suggest “in the meantime, try raids, might even enjoy them”. I am not a child, I am an adult who knows what I like and doesn’t need “Mommy” Anet telling me to “try brocolli, you might like it”. I play games for enjoyment, not to be dictated how I should “play”.[/quote]
Well that was a bit unexpected, sorry if I made you feel like you need “mommy” or something. Try raids.. why not? I have never tried brocolli, I’m pretty sure I am not going to like it and I have this really nice cake I’m going to eat instead. I’ve heard (pretty sure I’m being set up for something here) that cakes with stuff in them are just like cake. So carrot cake (don’t like carrots unless sliced in a can), aubergine and lime cake (never had or want to have aubergine), beetroot and chocolate cake (actually I’d try this). So I’m stretching a point, I’ll stop. You might like a raid was all I was trying to say, was not trying to trigger you.

Vayne.8563:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

You kind of did say that it was easy. You said:

in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Okay, read that again, but this time look at the part you missed:

in order to do the escort event you need people to already have raid masteries unlocked. So it’s pretty easy, except for the fact that you have to join a raid group who has already unlocked masteries.

Yes, it’s easy if you’re getting carried by raiders. Not so easy if you try to unlock the mastery track on your own though.

It was not missed. The bolded part of yours was just a redundant part of his post which was a repetition the first part. I also said nothing about getting carried. Having a few people that have the mastery does not equal to being carried.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

The only exception being finding a group who have already unlocked the mastery.

That’s a very big exception however.

Not really. No more difficult than a group of players trying to find someone able to open fractal 100 or fractal 72. Had nothing to do with the actually difficulty of the encounter which was what I was talking about in my post that he responded to.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

If you had not done the escort then I don’t really see how you can state whether it is easy or not. I am confused though since just earlier you said that you had done it. So which is it?

Vayne.8563:

What’s misleading is saying it’s easily accomplished, like this is somehow easier than doing a raid boss. It’s difficult, you have to get a group to do it and it sucks. I know cause I tried it with my guild.

I see Vayne saying he attempted it. Do not see him claiming he did it succesfully though. I assume that trying it, but without success is what he meant.

My take on this encounter: doable, but with a problem that if done by people new to raids, all people with experience with the encounter will end up in the tunnel group. Which will likely cause a ton of wipes before the other group will learn what to do.

No. In his earlier post he said that he did attempt it with his guild. In his recent post he said that he has never done it. How are those two statements the same? They’re not.

My initial post was me stating that the escort itself is pretty easy to do. I’m not the only one who have agreed it’s one of the easier encounters to do in the raid. At the end of that post I gave a disclaimer that you either need a mesmer with the specific mastery or a few people with it.

He then responded that I was being misleading because in order to do the raid, players need the mastery. He also repeated himself saying that they needed to join a raid group with it unlocked. This was also where he did state that the encounter was easy with the exception of creating the group which has nothing to do with the actual encounter. Would Arah be considered a difficult dungeon to beat because it’s not as easy as AC to get a group together? No.

He completely disregarded my post where I stated that only a mesmer for a few people actually need the mastery. I pointed this out to him by telling him to read that specific part of my post which I had bolded. I was also speaking about the encounter itself in my original post.

He responded back by saying that I was being misleading by saying it was easier to accomplish than any other raid boss. He’s wrong as it is quite easy to do in comparison and many other players have agreed. It’s often one of the encounters ranked as the easiest before any of the actual boss encounters. He then went on again about getting a group for it which has nothing to do with the difficulty of the encounter itself.

I then responded back to him that he had stated that was easy with a group of players who had the masteries. I also reminded him again that I was speaking about the difficulty of the encounter which had nothing to do with getting 1-3 players who already had the mastery unlocked.

He then responded back that he didn’t state that it was easy to do with a group that has the mastery despite him stating just that in the earlier post. He then goes on about the accessibility of raids which has nothing to do with what I originally said.

I’m running late so I’m going to wrap this up. I pointed out that he said that it was easy. There were several contradictions in this thread between his posts. And then there was your post.

I attempted it, but never completed it. Is that clearer for you?

Yes, thank you for the clarification.

Of course, they could just remove the lock on the raid mastery altogether. What purpose does it serve?

DoctorDing.5890:

Of course, they could just remove the lock on the raid mastery altogether. What purpose does it serve?

So far, it does seem to be little more than another barrier of entry for those wanting to get into raids. Bad enough groups expect Legendary Insights and whatnot, but not even having the masteries limits grouping options even more.

General Health.9678:

Djinn.9245:

GW2 used to be a game in which I could gain XP for my character in any way I chose:

You can still do this.

Djinn.9245:

With the introduction of HoT, this has been changed to ONLY getting XP through the Mastery system. I no longer have a choice how I progress my character because there aren’t enough MP in any of the single modes for me to play ONLY how I choose.

You still get XP in all the ways you talked about until you are 80.

As I said in the post you are responding to, you could CHOOSE how to progress your character. With Masteries, I can’t choose which mode of game play I like and cap Masteries. I have to play many different modes so that I can get enough MP to cap. And Raiding isn’t even a choice – I MUST raid in order to unlock that Mastery line whether I want to or not. None of this is free Choice.

DoctorDing.5890:

Of course, they could just remove the lock on the raid mastery altogether. What purpose does it serve?

I don’t see any issues with the current system. However, I also don’t see any issues if they were to just enable the ability to earn spirit shards if no mastery is selected to be trained. The only caveat being that players could then not complain if future content requires masteries further into the mastery lines.

Ayrilana.1396:

DoctorDing.5890:

Of course, they could just remove the lock on the raid mastery altogether. What purpose does it serve?

I don’t see any issues with the current system. However, I also don’t see any issues if they were to just enable the ability to earn spirit shards if no mastery is selected to be trained. The only caveat being that players could then not complain if future content requires masteries further into the mastery lines.

Of course they could complain – all this gating really sucks coming from core Tyria where choice abounds.

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

DoctorDing.5890:

Of course, they could just remove the lock on the raid mastery altogether. What purpose does it serve?

I don’t see any issues with the current system. However, I also don’t see any issues if they were to just enable the ability to earn spirit shards if no mastery is selected to be trained. The only caveat being that players could then not complain if future content requires masteries further into the mastery lines.

Of course they could complain – all this gating really sucks coming from core Tyria where choice abounds.

The expansion has been out for over 9 months. It’s not unreasonable to expect the playerbase to have progressed their masteries to a certain degree. A player who gains 3 levels every day pre-Hot would max their masteries in about 4 months. Doing a single AB meta, or even a single DS, per day easily accomplishes that. It’s also not unreasonable for some content to be gated as many MMO’s have done this. While some MMO’s gate by time, were fortunate that our content isn’t.

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor. A group would also have to have someone that progressed the raid that week to access other bosses which doesn’t help players new to raids. So again, what benefit would they get? It really doesn’t help with VG training other than save about 10 seconds or so running back after a fail.

You also don’t need everyone to have the mastery for the third wing. You only really need about 3 players to have it or just one Mesmer that is capable of running through the cave who get then port up a couple players when they get out of it.

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

I added more to my post. The time saved is minimal.

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

I added more to my post. The time saved is minimal.

Even it’s minimal, Anet still cares about it by adding /surrender or /gg command. Raid takes a significant time and effort. Every second counts!

And I don’t think we should rely on other players’ Thicket Waters mastery. How would you find that perfect composition for new raiders whom most elite raiders don’t really care about? Honestly, I’ve been searching for LFR for at least two weeks and never found any party offering that option. Could it be simpler if new raiders already have Waters mastery and are ready to join?

What you said is impractical. Have you ever noticed current LFR? They requires serious experiences, gears and tons of Legendary Insights (or kicked!). So, please be realistic.

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

I added more to my post. The time saved is minimal.

Even it’s minimal, Anet still cares about it by adding /surrender or /gg command. Raid takes a significant time and effort. Every second counts!

And I don’t think we should rely on other players’ Thicket Waters mastery. How would you find that perfect composition for new raiders whom most elite raiders don’t really care about? Honestly, I’ve been searching for LFR for at least two weeks and never found any party offering that option. Could it be simpler if new raiders already have Waters mastery and are ready to join?

What you said is impractical. Have you ever noticed current LFR? They requires serious experiences, gears and tons of Legendary Insights (or kicked!). So, please be realistic.

There’s a difference to 10 seconds saved by gliding over to the starting spot (assuming you have gliding progressed enough) to having to force a wipe by dying because you have dead team members.

You literally only need at most 3 players with the mastery to do the escort. Once you progress past the cave, it is no longer needed. You can even have a Mesmer run through it and port people up.

Also be aware that you have the ability to create your only LFG ad rather than solely relying on an existing one. Want to group with other players regardless as to their level of experience? Create your own LFG. It’s not that difficult and players had this ability well before HoT when they were then complaining about the requirements some players held for dungeons.

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

I added more to my post. The time saved is minimal.

Even it’s minimal, Anet still cares about it by adding /surrender or /gg command. Raid takes a significant time and effort. Every second counts!

And I don’t think we should rely on other players’ Thicket Waters mastery. How would you find that perfect composition for new raiders whom most elite raiders don’t really care about? Honestly, I’ve been searching for LFR for at least two weeks and never found any party offering that option. Could it be simpler if new raiders already have Waters mastery and are ready to join?

What you said is impractical. Have you ever noticed current LFR? They requires serious experiences, gears and tons of Legendary Insights (or kicked!). So, please be realistic.

There’s a difference to 10 seconds saved by gliding over to the starting spot (assuming you have gliding progressed enough) to having to force a wipe by dying because you have dead team members.

You literally only need at most 3 players with the mastery to do the escort. Once you progress past the cave, it is no longer needed. You can even have a Mesmer run through it and port people up.

Also be aware that you have the ability to create your only LFG ad rather than solely relying on an existing one. Want to group with other players regardless as to their level of experience? Create your own LFG. It’s not that difficult and players had this ability well before HoT when they were then complaining about the requirements some players held for dungeons.

OK.

• What’s the point of gating raid mastery behind defeating a raid bossM
• What’s the benefit of it?
• How gating improve players or gameplay experience?
• What’s the negative effect of allowing raid mastery unlocked by default?

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

I added more to my post. The time saved is minimal.

Even it’s minimal, Anet still cares about it by adding /surrender or /gg command. Raid takes a significant time and effort. Every second counts!

And I don’t think we should rely on other players’ Thicket Waters mastery. How would you find that perfect composition for new raiders whom most elite raiders don’t really care about? Honestly, I’ve been searching for LFR for at least two weeks and never found any party offering that option. Could it be simpler if new raiders already have Waters mastery and are ready to join?

What you said is impractical. Have you ever noticed current LFR? They requires serious experiences, gears and tons of Legendary Insights (or kicked!). So, please be realistic.

There’s a difference to 10 seconds saved by gliding over to the starting spot (assuming you have gliding progressed enough) to having to force a wipe by dying because you have dead team members.

You literally only need at most 3 players with the mastery to do the escort. Once you progress past the cave, it is no longer needed. You can even have a Mesmer run through it and port people up.

Also be aware that you have the ability to create your only LFG ad rather than solely relying on an existing one. Want to group with other players regardless as to their level of experience? Create your own LFG. It’s not that difficult and players had this ability well before HoT when they were then complaining about the requirements some players held for dungeons.

OK.

• What’s the point of gating raid mastery behind defeating a raid bossM
• What’s the benefit of it?
• How gating improve players or gameplay experience?
• What’s the negative effect of allowing raid mastery unlocked by default?

It’s something you earn by beating a boss and the use of the masteries are solely within raids. It encourages players to play the raid even if it’s just one boss. That also happens to be one of the reasons why there are gates as it encourages players to experience content. It’s why HoT masteries require XP earned on HoT maps. Gating content like what they have done, promotes players to experience the content rather than simply rush through the story.

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

I added more to my post. The time saved is minimal.

Even it’s minimal, Anet still cares about it by adding /surrender or /gg command. Raid takes a significant time and effort. Every second counts!

And I don’t think we should rely on other players’ Thicket Waters mastery. How would you find that perfect composition for new raiders whom most elite raiders don’t really care about? Honestly, I’ve been searching for LFR for at least two weeks and never found any party offering that option. Could it be simpler if new raiders already have Waters mastery and are ready to join?

What you said is impractical. Have you ever noticed current LFR? They requires serious experiences, gears and tons of Legendary Insights (or kicked!). So, please be realistic.

There’s a difference to 10 seconds saved by gliding over to the starting spot (assuming you have gliding progressed enough) to having to force a wipe by dying because you have dead team members.

You literally only need at most 3 players with the mastery to do the escort. Once you progress past the cave, it is no longer needed. You can even have a Mesmer run through it and port people up.

Also be aware that you have the ability to create your only LFG ad rather than solely relying on an existing one. Want to group with other players regardless as to their level of experience? Create your own LFG. It’s not that difficult and players had this ability well before HoT when they were then complaining about the requirements some players held for dungeons.

OK.

• What’s the point of gating raid mastery behind defeating a raid bossM
• What’s the benefit of it?
• How gating improve players or gameplay experience?
• What’s the negative effect of allowing raid mastery unlocked by default?

It’s something you earn by beating a boss and the use of the masteries are solely within raids. It encourages players to play the raid even if it’s just one boss. That also happens to be one of the reasons why there are gates as it encourages players to experience content. It’s why HoT masteries require XP earned on HoT maps. Gating content like what they have done, promotes players to experience the content rather than simply rush through the story.

I know the general idea of Mastery. But you didn’t answer my questions.
Please answer each question above, plus the following:

• Why Fractal Mastery isn’t gated by defeating a fractal boss?

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

I added more to my post. The time saved is minimal.

Even it’s minimal, Anet still cares about it by adding /surrender or /gg command. Raid takes a significant time and effort. Every second counts!

And I don’t think we should rely on other players’ Thicket Waters mastery. How would you find that perfect composition for new raiders whom most elite raiders don’t really care about? Honestly, I’ve been searching for LFR for at least two weeks and never found any party offering that option. Could it be simpler if new raiders already have Waters mastery and are ready to join?

What you said is impractical. Have you ever noticed current LFR? They requires serious experiences, gears and tons of Legendary Insights (or kicked!). So, please be realistic.

There’s a difference to 10 seconds saved by gliding over to the starting spot (assuming you have gliding progressed enough) to having to force a wipe by dying because you have dead team members.

You literally only need at most 3 players with the mastery to do the escort. Once you progress past the cave, it is no longer needed. You can even have a Mesmer run through it and port people up.

Also be aware that you have the ability to create your only LFG ad rather than solely relying on an existing one. Want to group with other players regardless as to their level of experience? Create your own LFG. It’s not that difficult and players had this ability well before HoT when they were then complaining about the requirements some players held for dungeons.

OK.

• What’s the point of gating raid mastery behind defeating a raid bossM
• What’s the benefit of it?
• How gating improve players or gameplay experience?
• What’s the negative effect of allowing raid mastery unlocked by default?

It’s something you earn by beating a boss and the use of the masteries are solely within raids. It encourages players to play the raid even if it’s just one boss. That also happens to be one of the reasons why there are gates as it encourages players to experience content. It’s why HoT masteries require XP earned on HoT maps. Gating content like what they have done, promotes players to experience the content rather than simply rush through the story.

I know the general idea of Mastery. But you didn’t answer my questions.
Please answer each question above, plus the following:

• Why Fractal Mastery isn’t gated by defeating a fractal boss?

I did answer your questions. It just wasn’t in bullets.

Fractal masteries enhance your ability to progress through the tiers. While you could forego them entirely, it would then cost you quite a bit of gold. The mechanics you use in the lower tiers is really not all that different than what you use in the higher tiers. With very few exceptions (e.g. Cliff side), there’s very little difference. The masteries are not a requirement. This is something you really should be asking Anet.

Vayne.8563:

Mostly true. You have to kill at least one raid boss. Some people sell raids, or do practice teaching raids. After your first kill you unlock raid masteries and you can train them like any other.

Once all your masteries are completed you again get spirit shards for leveling.

Whoa, didn’t know that.
Glad I try everything at least once in this game

Thank you all very much!

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

DoctorDing.5890:

Of course, they could just remove the lock on the raid mastery altogether. What purpose does it serve?

I don’t see any issues with the current system. However, I also don’t see any issues if they were to just enable the ability to earn spirit shards if no mastery is selected to be trained. The only caveat being that players could then not complain if future content requires masteries further into the mastery lines.

Of course they could complain – all this gating really sucks coming from core Tyria where choice abounds.

The expansion has been out for over 9 months. It’s not unreasonable to expect the playerbase to have progressed their masteries to a certain degree. A player who gains 3 levels every day pre-Hot would max their masteries in about 4 months. Doing a single AB meta, or even a single DS, per day easily accomplishes that. It’s also not unreasonable for some content to be gated as many MMO’s have done this. While some MMO’s gate by time, were fortunate that our content isn’t.

XP isn’t the gate, Mastery Points are. And many people play GW2 BECAUSE it isn’t like other MMOs. It is [was] the MMO of free choice, of “play how you want”, of “no grinding”. Perhaps you can imagine the disappointment of the people who loved this game for exactly those reasons. Clearly many people in this thread can’t.

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

I added more to my post. The time saved is minimal.

Even it’s minimal, Anet still cares about it by adding /surrender or /gg command. Raid takes a significant time and effort. Every second counts!

And I don’t think we should rely on other players’ Thicket Waters mastery. How would you find that perfect composition for new raiders whom most elite raiders don’t really care about? Honestly, I’ve been searching for LFR for at least two weeks and never found any party offering that option. Could it be simpler if new raiders already have Waters mastery and are ready to join?

What you said is impractical. Have you ever noticed current LFR? They requires serious experiences, gears and tons of Legendary Insights (or kicked!). So, please be realistic.

There’s a difference to 10 seconds saved by gliding over to the starting spot (assuming you have gliding progressed enough) to having to force a wipe by dying because you have dead team members.

You literally only need at most 3 players with the mastery to do the escort. Once you progress past the cave, it is no longer needed. You can even have a Mesmer run through it and port people up.

Also be aware that you have the ability to create your only LFG ad rather than solely relying on an existing one. Want to group with other players regardless as to their level of experience? Create your own LFG. It’s not that difficult and players had this ability well before HoT when they were then complaining about the requirements some players held for dungeons.

OK.

• What’s the point of gating raid mastery behind defeating a raid bossM
• What’s the benefit of it?
• How gating improve players or gameplay experience?
• What’s the negative effect of allowing raid mastery unlocked by default?

It’s something you earn by beating a boss and the use of the masteries are solely within raids. It encourages players to play the raid even if it’s just one boss. That also happens to be one of the reasons why there are gates as it encourages players to experience content. It’s why HoT masteries require XP earned on HoT maps. Gating content like what they have done, promotes players to experience the content rather than simply rush through the story.

I know the general idea of Mastery. But you didn’t answer my questions.
Please answer each question above, plus the following:

• Why Fractal Mastery isn’t gated by defeating a fractal boss?

I did answer your questions. It just wasn’t in bullets.

Fractal masteries enhance your ability to progress through the tiers. While you could forego them entirely, it would then cost you quite a bit of gold. The mechanics you use in the lower tiers is really not all that different than what you use in the higher tiers. With very few exceptions (e.g. Cliff side), there’s very little difference. The masteries are not a requirement. This is something you really should be asking Anet.

Unlock raid mastery to learn experience is non-sense !
- The main goal of mastery is an alternative character progression. We fill experience bar to learn new abilites, which will grant new exploration experience. This is the general concept of mastery. Without a mastery, you will struggle at a certain situation, but you don’t have to win that situation to unlock mastery line in order to progress or learn it. For example, we can’t enter poison hazes without Itzel Poison Lore mastery, but nothing prevents us from learning the mastery (but have to be in sequence anyway). In contrast, we can’t enter Tunnel of Respite without Forsaken Thicket Mastery, and locked raid mastery line prevents us from learning the mastery. It’s like a vicious cycle. This is an inconsistent progression and needs to be fixed.

Just one raid boss …. seriously ?
- Not everyone has plenty of time for raid.

The use of fractal masteries are solely within fractals and so do raid masteries.
- Your arguments are against themselves. (= an obvious indication of weak argument.)

Rewarding is a way to encourage players, while mastery line gating is punishment !
- It’s absurd to use mastery line gating to encourage players. The most efficient way is rewarding. Defeating raid bosses already give you mastery points; there’s no need to gate mastery as a reward.

Everyone deserves rewards !
- The main point here is that everyone should be able to progress all their mastery lines. Nothing should prevent unlocking mastery progression. At the end, we can make use of experiences we acquired in the game with our time and effort, not just wasting them from an absurd gating mechanic.

cc: Anet

The point of this thread is very valid. Players who have absolutely no interest in raids or raiding and who have absolutely no use for a raid mastery are being “encouraged” to do them just so they can have a use for excess XP again. It’s like asking a jazz-hating metal-head to buy a Robbie Coltrane album just to earn a Metallica bonus track.

The jazzers are saying “Hey, you might like it”, “Broaden your mind”, “You don’t know if you don’t try it” but the metal-head is thinking “But all I want is the bonus track”.

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

Ayrilana.1396:

REVOLVET.4807:

In addition to Spirit Shard gating, locked raid mastery also prevents other raid wings training and exploration. For example, raid wing 3 requires Thicket Water mastery, which prohibits game play for new raiders. Rift Traveler is also really helpful in VG training, where new raider parties frequently fail and have to restart. There’s no need to gate Rift Traveler ability behind defeating a raid boss.

What benefit would a player gain from having early access to rift traveler if they have yet to beat a raid boss? It’s not like they’d be able to use the vendor.

You can restart the fight faster. Isn’t that good? Is it why there’s /surrender command in raid?

I added more to my post. The time saved is minimal.

Even it’s minimal, Anet still cares about it by adding /surrender or /gg command. Raid takes a significant time and effort. Every second counts!

And I don’t think we should rely on other players’ Thicket Waters mastery. How would you find that perfect composition for new raiders whom most elite raiders don’t really care about? Honestly, I’ve been searching for LFR for at least two weeks and never found any party offering that option. Could it be simpler if new raiders already have Waters mastery and are ready to join?

What you said is impractical. Have you ever noticed current LFR? They requires serious experiences, gears and tons of Legendary Insights (or kicked!). So, please be realistic.

There’s a difference to 10 seconds saved by gliding over to the starting spot (assuming you have gliding progressed enough) to having to force a wipe by dying because you have dead team members.

You literally only need at most 3 players with the mastery to do the escort. Once you progress past the cave, it is no longer needed. You can even have a Mesmer run through it and port people up.

Also be aware that you have the ability to create your only LFG ad rather than solely relying on an existing one. Want to group with other players regardless as to their level of experience? Create your own LFG. It’s not that difficult and players had this ability well before HoT when they were then complaining about the requirements some players held for dungeons.

OK.

• What’s the point of gating raid mastery behind defeating a raid bossM
• What’s the benefit of it?
• How gating improve players or gameplay experience?
• What’s the negative effect of allowing raid mastery unlocked by default?

It’s something you earn by beating a boss and the use of the masteries are solely within raids. It encourages players to play the raid even if it’s just one boss. That also happens to be one of the reasons why there are gates as it encourages players to experience content. It’s why HoT masteries require XP earned on HoT maps. Gating content like what they have done, promotes players to experience the content rather than simply rush through the story.

I know the general idea of Mastery. But you didn’t answer my questions.
Please answer each question above, plus the following:

• Why Fractal Mastery isn’t gated by defeating a fractal boss?

I did answer your questions. It just wasn’t in bullets.

Fractal masteries enhance your ability to progress through the tiers. While you could forego them entirely, it would then cost you quite a bit of gold. The mechanics you use in the lower tiers is really not all that different than what you use in the higher tiers. With very few exceptions (e.g. Cliff side), there’s very little difference. The masteries are not a requirement. This is something you really should be asking Anet.

The thing is that you don’t even need to defeat most of the bosses in fractals to get the mastery points. Just swim through some foes, kick some chickens or simply dance. Also, many fractals can be done with two people or even soloed, and there are many difficulty levels available for each fractal. If there was an easier option for raids, I think that would be fine for most people as well, because it would make raids accessible for a lot more players without any ridiculous requirements for grouping.

DoctorDing.5890:

The point of this thread is very valid. Players who have absolutely no interest in raids or raiding and who have absolutely no use for a raid mastery are being “encouraged” to do them just so they can have a use for excess XP again. It’s like asking a jazz-hating metal-head to buy a Robbie Coltrane album just to earn a Metallica bonus track.

The jazzers are saying “Hey, you might like it”, “Broaden your mind”, “You don’t know if you don’t try it” but the metal-head is thinking “But all I want is the bonus track”.

If this were an isolated incident, I would agree, but it’s not. Anet ‘encourages’ people that prefer all kinds of different content into other areas they are not necessarily interested in participating. Therefore, it’s not an exception that people who don’t like something are being encouraged to do that something to get a reward … it’s the standard.

The most offensive part here is that Anet has provided players multiple ways to get the reward in question … so the complaints about being ‘locked out’ are disingenuous in the first place. It’s really about someone seeing another person getting something they think they should have too, even though they aren’t willing to do the same to get it. Just no.

Obtena.7952:

Anet has provided players multiple ways to get the reward in question.

Aside from random spirit shard drops, players can still get them by leveling in core Tyria zones, if they’ve finished all of that region’s masteries. So it’s not a complete lockout.

The raid-lock on spirit shards seems to be an unintentional consequence of an incomplete thought, rather than “trying to force players into content.” It was probably 4 lines of code total with no check on whether raid masteries were opened or not. I wouldn’t mind a fix, but I’m not hurting for shards either.

Astralporing.1957:

Daddicus.6128:

I’ve never darkened the door of raids, but I’m getting spirit shards via experience again on all my 80s.

In core zones only, i bet. Not in Bloodstone Fen, for example.

True. I don’t even know where Bloodstone Fen is, and I’ll almost certainly never go there.

But, your statement gave me an idea: Could the issue be that one started a raid (thus unlocking the mastery), and that then prevents XP for SSs?

Malediktus.9250:

Spirit Shards are useless anyway, you get so many of them and if you would want to convert them to gold you would have to click yourself to a broken mouse and carpal tunnel syndrome.

I’ve made far more money upgrading crafting materials than I’ll ever make adventuring. And, that requires spirit shards.

Daddicus.6128:

Astralporing.1957:

Daddicus.6128:

I’ve never darkened the door of raids, but I’m getting spirit shards via experience again on all my 80s.

In core zones only, i bet. Not in Bloodstone Fen, for example.

True. I don’t even know where Bloodstone Fen is, and I’ll almost certainly never go there.

But, your statement gave me an idea: Could the issue be that one started a raid (thus unlocking the mastery), and that then prevents XP for SSs?

No, the reason you are not having the same issue is because there are two different Mastery tracks: one for Core Tyria and one for Heart of Thorns. You can see this in your Hero panel. You finished the Masteries for Core Tyria and so you now get a Spirit Shard for each level when you are playing in Core Tyria. If you were playing in Heart of Thorns, you would not get Spirit Shards until you completed Masteries in HoT. The Raids are in HoT and have a Mastery track that can only be opened by participating in Raids. That is the topic of this thread.

I don’t have the mastery points to get the majority of masteries, especially old world stuff. And I have zero interest in raids. You could actually just deselect a mastery and earn spirit shards, but they patched that out quickly. So it’s totally intended to force you to earn all the masteries, which is silly. What a shame.

DoctorDing.5890:

The point of this thread is very valid. Players who have absolutely no interest in raids or raiding and who have absolutely no use for a raid mastery are being “encouraged” to do them just so they can have a use for excess XP again. It’s like asking a jazz-hating metal-head to buy a Robbie Coltrane album just to earn a Metallica bonus track.

The jazzers are saying “Hey, you might like it”, “Broaden your mind”, “You don’t know if you don’t try it” but the metal-head is thinking “But all I want is the bonus track”.

I think it’s actually worse. The metal-head could think, “ok, I’ll try it just to unlock the track”, but then isn’t able because he needs to find 9 other people who also want to do it with him. But those jazzier don’t want strangers and his metal-head friends don’t care…

I just had a guild member tell me they get Spirit Shards from experience in Bloodstone fen.

My experience bar does not fill in that zone, I was assuming it’s the same for everyone. The only difference between me and him is I have 162 Mastery points and he has 170 (8 from the raid).

Can anyone tell me what’s up with this?

The ability to gain spirit shards for leveling is enabled once all of the masteries for the given region are unlocked. You don’t get them in Bloodstone Fen because you’re lacking the HoT’s raid masteries.

Don’t think I should be required to raid to unlock experience. It should be optional, but okay I’ll leave it at that.

Thanks for the response.