Guild Wars 2

The one to Rule.2593:

if you dont raid anyway, you dont need the masteries, they are entirely useless to non raiders, your complaint is equally as pointless as spirit shards are

as stated earlier in this. my exp bar is locked and anet is rewarding new content with exp.
THIS is a reason to unlock max out and never raid again. anet currently intends that your bar loops at 80. but mine doesn’t, if you have nothing helpful to say, then don’t say anything.

What we really need is a toggle on/off button to choose whether or not we actually want to level masteries or get spirit shards, anyway. I doubt they planned to give out spirit shards solely from tomes of knowledge after lvl 80, because they are so rare outside of PvP to begin with.

This a much better solution than implementing another separate mastery line. Why is it not simply “mastery” anyway? I got gliding from HoT masteries but I can glide anywhere, and I can grab items as commander mastery anywhere too, but have to farm the much more difficult central mastery points, why not farm any point for any mastery? It’s not like the F2P crowd is getting those, either, so why force us to play either part of the content? It’s basically the same problem OP is facing: he wants to get more shards (and he should be able to, regardless of his stance on raiding), but his exp line is sealed shut from exp belonging to mastery lines.

EDIT: regarding the voip and raid thing; I am mute IRL so I put up a LF guild party on the game’s LFG tool mentioning that. I got into a guild and didn’t really run too much with them (currently I’m not playing because of work), but knowing my problem beforehand, they were really comprehensive and thankfully I had no issues concerning disrespect and such. I’m sure no matter your condition, someone will be up to understand it, but it might take some time

Well i could complain that my bar is locked too, because i hate adventure and because of that i dont have enought mastery to unlock the bar. But i dont because i know if i want rewards i need to go get it, not complain for a-net to give it to me outside the content they were designed.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Well i could complain that my bar is locked too, because i hate adventure and because of that i dont have enought mastery to unlock the bar. But i dont because i know if i want rewards i need to go get it, not complain for a-net to give it to me outside the content they were designed.

this is not a productive comment.

Don’t tell me you can’t do one escort to unlock the mastery, come on.

Gunsnroll.2657:

Don’t tell me you can’t do one escort to unlock the mastery, come on.

I am told that you have to unlock raid wings. I am also told that as a new raider my first raid MUST be vale guardian. is this wrong?

Warlock.7136:

Gunsnroll.2657:

Don’t tell me you can’t do one escort to unlock the mastery, come on.

I am told that you have to unlock raid wings. I am also told that as a new raider my first raid MUST be vale guardian. is this wrong?

Yes, Any boss will get you the unlock. Escort didn’t used to but a recent change made it possible just for this reason, that’s it’s pretty much the easiest raid ‘boss’ event given you have one good mesmer (much easier if they have the raid masteries already though there is a JP workaround apparently).

You can start with every of the 9 bosses. But on Xera (3rd boss of the 3rd wing) you will definitely die after seconds. But the other 8 are doable without raid mastery even without the one from Salvation Pass at Matthias although he also isn’t recommended to be played first.

Watch a youtube video of the “Escort” (1st encounter of wing 3) and then try to get into such a group. You have to stay at the bottom group when not having a superb mesmer ^^ and everything is fine. It’s most likely that you only have to know what’s going on during the encounter and helping to clear mobs at the lane.

Sometimes it is better not to listen to any people than to inform yourself via the internet. We have the technology!

Do wing 3, escort mission. It’s super easy, then boom, you got the mastery needed to max it out.

Gunsnroll.2657:

Don’t tell me you can’t do one escort to unlock the mastery, come on.

You need people with raid mastery in your group in order to do the escort. Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Yes, there are raid training guilds out there, but they are for people genuinely wanting to start raiding, not for unlocking raid mastery bars.

Besides, the point remains. The exp bar is locked behind an activity that Anet specifically wanted to be done by only a small minority of players.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Well i could complain that my bar is locked too, because i hate adventure and because of that i dont have enought mastery to unlock the bar. But i dont because i know if i want rewards i need to go get it, not complain for a-net to give it to me outside the content they were designed.

An appeal to the status quo is not a good argument. We would not have raids if status quo was the be-all and end-all of the game.

Astralporing.1957:

Gunsnroll.2657:

Don’t tell me you can’t do one escort to unlock the mastery, come on.

You need people with raid mastery in your group in order to do the escort. Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Crystal please don’t put an invis wall in

Astralporing.1957:

Gunsnroll.2657:

Don’t tell me you can’t do one escort to unlock the mastery, come on.

You need people with raid mastery in your group in order to do the escort. Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Yes, there are raid training guilds out there, but they are for people genuinely wanting to start raiding, not for unlocking raid mastery bars.

Besides, the point remains. The exp bar is locked behind an activity that Anet specifically wanted to be done by only a small minority of players.

Yeah like you can’t find an escort goup with low or no requirements, or some friends to pug with.
You don’t need raid mastery to do escort, I don’t have it and I’m doing fine, the only thing you need is 3 people with ley line gliding for the up part.

If you don’t like the escort, do gorseval.

To OP: Dude, kitten happens. Not everything is for everyone, you have to accept that. No one is entitled to get/have everything he/she wants. That’s life.

You can always try buying the raid boss kill, there are lots of such lfgs every day. If its the escort i think it will be pretty cheap.

Djinn.9245:

General Health.9678:

Pretty sure that if you max the tyria mastery lines you get spirit shards in core tyria when you level. So it’s also gated in core, not sure why we’re fixated on HoT.

Cause a lot of people aren’t leveling in core Tyria anymore?

There’s still dailies, those avoiding parts of HoT’s hero challenges, champ trains, Silverwastes, world completion, etc. Yeah, people still do old-Tyria content too.

But I’m finding that my experience bar is a bit bugged. I’ll loop a level, but the bar doesn’t clear, so I’m not sure if I’m actually getting shards. (Have well over a thousand, so I’m not hurting for them, but still..)

Obtena.7952:

Is there value in complaining that a reward is not given to people that don’t do the activity that gives it?

That’s not what we’re discussing here. Raids are not the activity that gives the reward (that would be earning xp). Raids are the gate that keeps the rewards away from some people, even if they are doing the activity. And in this case, yes, there’s definitely a value in asking whether that gating is necessary, wise, or even reasonable.
(also, asking for changes to reward systems are something people do all the time. Raiders were and are doing that as well)

Obtena.7952:

I think that’s a good point because shards aren’t JUST an XP reward anymore .. they have additional requirements as you mentioned. People can’t seem to get their head around this.

No, they just disagree with those requirements. You might not agree with them, but it doesn’t make them wrong.

ProtoGunner.4953:

To OP: Dude, kitten happens. Not everything is for everyone, you have to accept that. No one is entitled to get/have everything he/she wants. That’s life.

Where would the game be if posters had just accepted that GW2 was not for raiders because it had no raids?

IndigoSundown.5419:

ProtoGunner.4953:

To OP: Dude, kitten happens. Not everything is for everyone, you have to accept that. No one is entitled to get/have everything he/she wants. That’s life.

Where would the game be if posters had just accepted that GW2 was not for raiders because it had no raids?

Hopefully with some quality 5 man content similar to these raids

Tomes of Knowledge my friend. Once you hit level 80, all tomes of knowledge you use will grant you spirit shards. I have 700 tomes of knowledge and use them for spirit shards when I need them.

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Onlysaneman.9612:

What I do care about is A-net setting a precedent of allowing raids to affect the rest of the game beyond basic balance tweaks. You must understand how, for those of us who don’t raid, that might be a bit concerning.

This, and Anet gating character progress behind other game modes in general.

It may be a concern but it’s already happening everywhere in the game since day 1. It’s already an established precedent.

Furthermore, this is not a gating of character progress … your progress is in no way gated by this. It’s disingenuous to refer to an additional reward from an activity as a barrier to how your character progresses. Nobody is your fool here.

Experience is the base form of character progress in almost every single game that has characters. Gating the base form of character progress has not been happening since day 1. And I can’t think of what form of character progress HAS been gated behind other play modes since day 1.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ProtoGunner.4953:

To OP: Dude, kitten happens. Not everything is for everyone, you have to accept that. No one is entitled to get/have everything he/she wants. That’s life.

Where would the game be if posters had just accepted that GW2 was not for raiders because it had no raids?

Without this problem to discuss, that’s for sure.

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Onlysaneman.9612:

What I do care about is A-net setting a precedent of allowing raids to affect the rest of the game beyond basic balance tweaks. You must understand how, for those of us who don’t raid, that might be a bit concerning.

This, and Anet gating character progress behind other game modes in general.

It may be a concern but it’s already happening everywhere in the game since day 1. It’s already an established precedent.

Furthermore, this is not a gating of character progress … your progress is in no way gated by this. It’s disingenuous to refer to an additional reward from an activity as a barrier to how your character progresses. Nobody is your fool here.

Experience is the base form of character progress in almost every single game that has characters. Gating the base form of character progress has not been happening since day 1. And I can’t think of what form of character progress HAS been gated behind other play modes since day 1.

The fairness of this new reward system has no bearing on your character progression. You’ve brought up this topic numerous times, yet haven’t defined what you mean by it.

I strongly suggest you create another thread in which you lay out your definition, and how you feel impeded. It would be far more useful for all involved, and would avoid derailing what people here are talking about.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Is there value in complaining that a reward is not given to people that don’t do the activity that gives it?

That’s not what we’re discussing here. Raids are not the activity that gives the reward (that would be earning xp). Raids are the gate that keeps the rewards away from some people, even if they are doing the activity.

That’s just not being honest and arguing semantics … obviously unlocking whatever Raid mastery is part of the requirement for the spirit shroud reward just like capping XP bars. If you can’t get past that, we have little to say to each other.

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Onlysaneman.9612:

What I do care about is A-net setting a precedent of allowing raids to affect the rest of the game beyond basic balance tweaks. You must understand how, for those of us who don’t raid, that might be a bit concerning.

This, and Anet gating character progress behind other game modes in general.

It may be a concern but it’s already happening everywhere in the game since day 1. It’s already an established precedent.

Furthermore, this is not a gating of character progress … your progress is in no way gated by this. It’s disingenuous to refer to an additional reward from an activity as a barrier to how your character progresses. Nobody is your fool here.

Experience is the base form of character progress in almost every single game that has characters. Gating the base form of character progress has not been happening since day 1. And I can’t think of what form of character progress HAS been gated behind other play modes since day 1.

You’re not gated in character progression by this, at all. You still gain experience and gaining it is in no way gated by arid masteries, therefore not preventing your progression as a character. Progression is NOT the same thing as material rewards. Seems to me you’re confusing the two, though I can’t see how any gamer would do such a thing unless it is intentional.

Jerus.4350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

ProtoGunner.4953:

To OP: Dude, kitten happens. Not everything is for everyone, you have to accept that. No one is entitled to get/have everything he/she wants. That’s life.

Where would the game be if posters had just accepted that GW2 was not for raiders because it had no raids?

Hopefully with some quality 5 man content similar to these raids

If status quo is the be-all and end-all for the game, we would not have that content. ;(

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Is there value in complaining that a reward is not given to people that don’t do the activity that gives it?

That’s not what we’re discussing here. Raids are not the activity that gives the reward (that would be earning xp). Raids are the gate that keeps the rewards away from some people, even if they are doing the activity.

That’s just not being honest and arguing semantics … obviously unlocking whatever Raid mastery is part of the requirement for the spirit shroud reward just like capping XP bars. If you can’t get past that, we have little to say to each other.

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Onlysaneman.9612:

What I do care about is A-net setting a precedent of allowing raids to affect the rest of the game beyond basic balance tweaks. You must understand how, for those of us who don’t raid, that might be a bit concerning.

This, and Anet gating character progress behind other game modes in general.

It may be a concern but it’s already happening everywhere in the game since day 1. It’s already an established precedent.

Furthermore, this is not a gating of character progress … your progress is in no way gated by this. It’s disingenuous to refer to an additional reward from an activity as a barrier to how your character progresses. Nobody is your fool here.

Experience is the base form of character progress in almost every single game that has characters. Gating the base form of character progress has not been happening since day 1. And I can’t think of what form of character progress HAS been gated behind other play modes since day 1.

You’re not gated in character progression by this, at all. You still gain experience and gaining it is in no way gated by arid masteries, therefore not preventing your progression as a character. Progression is NOT the same thing as material rewards. Seems to me you’re confusing the two, though I can’t see how any gamer would do such a thing unless it is intentional.

I don’t think you understand how this works. I am currently without Mastery Points to continue advancing my Masteries. Since all XP bars in my Masteries are full without Mastery Points to “buy” them, I am literally gaining zero additional Experience.

Jerus.4350:

Hopefully with some quality 5 man content similar to these raids

But we have the other thread asking the devs not to develop Fractals like raids

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Is there value in complaining that a reward is not given to people that don’t do the activity that gives it?

That’s not what we’re discussing here. Raids are not the activity that gives the reward (that would be earning xp). Raids are the gate that keeps the rewards away from some people, even if they are doing the activity.

That’s just not being honest and arguing semantics … obviously unlocking whatever Raid mastery is part of the requirement for the spirit shroud reward just like capping XP bars. If you can’t get past that, we have little to say to each other.

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Onlysaneman.9612:

What I do care about is A-net setting a precedent of allowing raids to affect the rest of the game beyond basic balance tweaks. You must understand how, for those of us who don’t raid, that might be a bit concerning.

This, and Anet gating character progress behind other game modes in general.

It may be a concern but it’s already happening everywhere in the game since day 1. It’s already an established precedent.

Furthermore, this is not a gating of character progress … your progress is in no way gated by this. It’s disingenuous to refer to an additional reward from an activity as a barrier to how your character progresses. Nobody is your fool here.

Experience is the base form of character progress in almost every single game that has characters. Gating the base form of character progress has not been happening since day 1. And I can’t think of what form of character progress HAS been gated behind other play modes since day 1.

You’re not gated in character progression by this, at all. You still gain experience and gaining it is in no way gated by arid masteries, therefore not preventing your progression as a character. Progression is NOT the same thing as material rewards. Seems to me you’re confusing the two, though I can’t see how any gamer would do such a thing unless it is intentional.

I don’t think you understand how this works. I am currently without Mastery Points to continue advancing my Masteries. Since all XP bars in my Masteries are full without Mastery Points to “buy” them, I am literally gaining zero additional Experience.

I think that his point is that the XP you arent getting doesnt actually represent character progression post level 80 (except for developing masteries).

He describes the benefits of xp, post 80, on a character with maxed masteries as material reward…not character progression. I can see his point considering the uses for spirit shards.

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Is there value in complaining that a reward is not given to people that don’t do the activity that gives it?

That’s not what we’re discussing here. Raids are not the activity that gives the reward (that would be earning xp). Raids are the gate that keeps the rewards away from some people, even if they are doing the activity.

That’s just not being honest and arguing semantics … obviously unlocking whatever Raid mastery is part of the requirement for the spirit shroud reward just like capping XP bars. If you can’t get past that, we have little to say to each other.

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Onlysaneman.9612:

What I do care about is A-net setting a precedent of allowing raids to affect the rest of the game beyond basic balance tweaks. You must understand how, for those of us who don’t raid, that might be a bit concerning.

This, and Anet gating character progress behind other game modes in general.

It may be a concern but it’s already happening everywhere in the game since day 1. It’s already an established precedent.

Furthermore, this is not a gating of character progress … your progress is in no way gated by this. It’s disingenuous to refer to an additional reward from an activity as a barrier to how your character progresses. Nobody is your fool here.

Experience is the base form of character progress in almost every single game that has characters. Gating the base form of character progress has not been happening since day 1. And I can’t think of what form of character progress HAS been gated behind other play modes since day 1.

You’re not gated in character progression by this, at all. You still gain experience and gaining it is in no way gated by arid masteries, therefore not preventing your progression as a character. Progression is NOT the same thing as material rewards. Seems to me you’re confusing the two, though I can’t see how any gamer would do such a thing unless it is intentional.

I don’t think you understand how this works. I am currently without Mastery Points to continue advancing my Masteries. Since all XP bars in my Masteries are full without Mastery Points to “buy” them, I am literally gaining zero additional Experience.

Ah! So your beef isn’t with the new reward system, but is instead with the ease (or lack thereof) of getting Mastery Points.

There are some decent threads about how to get some MP’s (sadly Google will have to be used over the forum search); have you tried the Players helping Players section for advice? And I’d be willing to bet that there are some good guides out there on the internet, and even some guilds which do tours from time to time (I grabbed a few by following a random squad through AB).

I know that the MP’s are locked behind some annoying things (I finally get why you kept saying progression is locked behind content), and that sometimes the adventures or what-have-you just kick you when you’re down. That sucks. But it is a completely different topic from how these new rewards were implemented, and because of that it has led to a lot of people misunderstanding you.

Hopefully though, in a perfect world, the rewards can be extended to people who are stuck in your position.

Rauderi.8706:

But I’m finding that my experience bar is a bit bugged. I’ll loop a level, but the bar doesn’t clear, so I’m not sure if I’m actually getting shards. (Have well over a thousand, so I’m not hurting for them, but still..)

Don’t worry, I have the same issue in Tyria. You still get spirit shards for every 250K or so experience as usual – the only thing which is bugged is the experience bar graphic. If you hover your mouse cursor over the bar, it will tell you how much XP you currently have.

So even if the bar doesn’t actually move/is stuck on full, you will continue to progress towards your next spirit shard(s) as you gain XP.

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Is there value in complaining that a reward is not given to people that don’t do the activity that gives it?

That’s not what we’re discussing here. Raids are not the activity that gives the reward (that would be earning xp). Raids are the gate that keeps the rewards away from some people, even if they are doing the activity.

That’s just not being honest and arguing semantics … obviously unlocking whatever Raid mastery is part of the requirement for the spirit shroud reward just like capping XP bars. If you can’t get past that, we have little to say to each other.

First of all, stop calling people disingenuous/dishonest just because they disagree with you. Secondly, as a number of people (including me) have said multiple times before, the issue is that people disagree with raid masteries being a requirement for spirit shards. We know that it’s your opinion that the way things are now is just fine. But that’s your opinion. And some people just happen to disagree with you.

And again, your opinion is not objective fact, so stop presenting it as such.

Yes, it’s a fact that unlocking and finishing those masteries is a requirement now. But the whole point of this discussion is that a number of people want to see it changed (for various reasons) and they’re giving their opinions as to why. If you can’t get past the idea of people disagreeing with you, then you indeed have very little of value to say to others who do not share your opinion.

Or to give the short version:

No, they just disagree with those requirements. You might not agree with them, but it doesn’t make them wrong.

It really isn’t that hard to understand.

Obtena.7952:

You’re not gated in character progression by this, at all. You still gain experience and gaining it is in no way gated by arid masteries, therefore not preventing your progression as a character. Progression is NOT the same thing as material rewards. Seems to me you’re confusing the two, though I can’t see how any gamer would do such a thing unless it is intentional.

Except you’re apparently conveniently forgetting that getting better equipment – also a form of material rewards – is also a part of character progression, if I might be bold enough to nitpick at your argument there.

More importantly though: if you can’t use the XP you get – because you haven’t unlocked raid masteries yet – then you don’t so much “gain” it as waste it. It’s just gone. And if XP boosts are given as a map bonus in an area for every few events which you complete – as is the case in Bloodstone Fen – then that’s a LOT of wasted XP. Hell, it renders a whole map bonus completely useless and valueless. That, in my humble opinion, is bad game design. At this point, it feels less like a reward for people who have completed all mastery tracks (including raids), and more like a punishment to those who’ve never completed a raid. At least, that how it feels to me.

That all said: I wish people would stop misconstruing the discussion as being about acquiring spirit shards. I’d think that enough people by now on both sides of the discussion have mentioned that getting spirit shards isn’t exactly a big challenge.

The issue for many of us is however that we end up wasting a lot of experience unless we complete at least one raid, and with raid content originally being marketed as elite content for a minority, we feel that this is unfair towards to those of us who might be considered to be more casual players.

I’ve already stated my opinions before at great length earlier in this thread, so if you’re interested, check that post. The most important snippet however would be this:

Mercure.5689:

This may sound silly to some of you, but seeing a lot of XP simply go to waste when I know that there’s a possibility actually make it do something is incredibly demotivating. And yes, this may not affect your enjoyment of this game, but it does affect mine. You may not understand why I feel like this. You may think it’s stupid, and you’re entitled to your opinion. But regardless, it’s still a factor for me which negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game.

Again, you can agree or disagree with me. But to me, the fact that I’m forced into a game mode which supposedly was meant for a small minority of elite players just so I don’t waste millions upon millions of XP really is a motivation killer, and it’s gotten to the point where I log off after doing my dailies, if I even bother to do so.

And yes, you may think this is stupid. That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it. If getting absolutely nothing for the XP you “gain” while knowing you could get something for it doesn’t affect you in the slightest, good on you. I’m happy that you’re okay with the status quo or that you don’t care about wasting XP. I simply am not.

PS: In case anybody is wondering, I’ve actually spent some time trying to raid since last post. Since you know, I really want to unlock those spirit shards. Turns out that after last few tries, there was barely any interest in it, which only makes it harder to actually get a group to kill a boss with. And we know how welcoming the average public group is to relatively inexperienced raiders. >_>

I agree they don’t have to exclude you to get the shards (though we get a kittenload of them anyway).

About raids: An MMO is a very complex construct which undergoes a lot of change during its lifespan. Anet never said there will be no raids nor told they GW2 is directed towards casuals. That was always the playerbase’s opinion. Of course after 3 years into this game people might think it is for casuals. Still you can’t blame the developer for that.

Sarrs.4831:

Jerus.4350:

Hopefully with some quality 5 man content similar to these raids

But we have the other thread asking the devs not to develop Fractals like raids

:S yeah which is just stupid. The things that make raids different from old dungeons or fractals is primarily a forced focus on healing, tanking, and non combat mechanics. Things that a year and a half ago were being begged for to combat the zerk meta. They did a great job providing just that.

The ‘raid mechanics’ in Swamp are actually non existent. It’s an increased difficulty in that it’s a ‘do or die’ scenario (dodge or get massive damge, do the wisps in time or massive damage) and really it plays more like old dungeons/fractals than new raids.

Chaos is far closer to raids with it’s large repercussions if you don’t break the bar, a fixation mechanic, and the use of the special action key (hell snowblind is more similar to raids than swamp!).

Greener.6204:

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Onlysaneman.9612:

What I do care about is A-net setting a precedent of allowing raids to affect the rest of the game beyond basic balance tweaks. You must understand how, for those of us who don’t raid, that might be a bit concerning.

This, and Anet gating character progress behind other game modes in general.

It may be a concern but it’s already happening everywhere in the game since day 1. It’s already an established precedent.

Furthermore, this is not a gating of character progress … your progress is in no way gated by this. It’s disingenuous to refer to an additional reward from an activity as a barrier to how your character progresses. Nobody is your fool here.

Experience is the base form of character progress in almost every single game that has characters. Gating the base form of character progress has not been happening since day 1. And I can’t think of what form of character progress HAS been gated behind other play modes since day 1.

The fairness of this new reward system has no bearing on your character progression. You’ve brought up this topic numerous times, yet haven’t defined what you mean by it.

I strongly suggest you create another thread in which you lay out your definition, and how you feel impeded. It would be far more useful for all involved, and would avoid derailing what people here are talking about.

It seems pretty plain to me. Gain experience, get rewards. But because the mastery system is arbitrarily linked to experience gain post-cap, players can find themselves in a situation where the reward (spirit shards, as minor as they are) is locked behind masteries.

As there is no compelling reason that it needs to be this way, some players are asking for a change to the way the system works to provide spirit shards in exchange for experience regardless of mastery status. Some of us happen to think it would be better this way. ANet will make the call. “Fairness” isn’t really part of the conversation to me.

Greener.6204:

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Is there value in complaining that a reward is not given to people that don’t do the activity that gives it?

That’s not what we’re discussing here. Raids are not the activity that gives the reward (that would be earning xp). Raids are the gate that keeps the rewards away from some people, even if they are doing the activity.

That’s just not being honest and arguing semantics … obviously unlocking whatever Raid mastery is part of the requirement for the spirit shroud reward just like capping XP bars. If you can’t get past that, we have little to say to each other.

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Onlysaneman.9612:

What I do care about is A-net setting a precedent of allowing raids to affect the rest of the game beyond basic balance tweaks. You must understand how, for those of us who don’t raid, that might be a bit concerning.

This, and Anet gating character progress behind other game modes in general.

It may be a concern but it’s already happening everywhere in the game since day 1. It’s already an established precedent.

Furthermore, this is not a gating of character progress … your progress is in no way gated by this. It’s disingenuous to refer to an additional reward from an activity as a barrier to how your character progresses. Nobody is your fool here.

Experience is the base form of character progress in almost every single game that has characters. Gating the base form of character progress has not been happening since day 1. And I can’t think of what form of character progress HAS been gated behind other play modes since day 1.

You’re not gated in character progression by this, at all. You still gain experience and gaining it is in no way gated by arid masteries, therefore not preventing your progression as a character. Progression is NOT the same thing as material rewards. Seems to me you’re confusing the two, though I can’t see how any gamer would do such a thing unless it is intentional.

I don’t think you understand how this works. I am currently without Mastery Points to continue advancing my Masteries. Since all XP bars in my Masteries are full without Mastery Points to “buy” them, I am literally gaining zero additional Experience.

Ah! So your beef isn’t with the new reward system, but is instead with the ease (or lack thereof) of getting Mastery Points.

Not sure how you’re coming to that conclusion. My comment is simply that I am not progressing Masteries and so I am not gaining the Experience that I am being awarded in-game. Every time I accomplish something (killing a mob, crafting, etc.) I should be gaining Experience but I am not. My Experience bar at the bottom of my screen stays static. This is a very unsatisfying feeling.

don’t like raiding, will not raid and shouldn’t have to raid to get a rinse-n-repeat spirit shard forging XP bar.

seabhac.5346:

don’t like raiding, will not raid and shouldn’t have to raid to get a rinse-n-repeat spirit shard forging XP bar.

I think this thread has about run its course. If there remains any questions on what people are actually asking for, there’s no need to further mischaracterize anyone as wanting something for nothing. Just refer back to this post. Very simple: Gaining experience should provide rewards (and the mastery system already does!). Now ANet can decide whether they agree and do whatever they will with it.

Djinn.9245:

I wasn’t aware that you had to complete the Raid Masteries to get back to XP gain. Yet another method for Anet to force you to play a game mode whether you want to or not. I’m quickly coming to the decision to leave GW2 over this strong-arming. Shame as I just bought gems. I won’t be foolish enough to do that again seeing how this game is becoming mostly an on-rails experience which I CAN’T STAND.

Yes don’t buy gems (with real cash) if you dislike things about a game you complain over and over about, give reasonable suggestions on, and nothing still happens (not like they are going to do specifically what ever YOU say, but… you get the idea). No matter how pretty something is in the gem store. You are just helping to fund making things worse not better if you do.

Jerus.4350:

Sarrs.4831:

Jerus.4350:

Hopefully with some quality 5 man content similar to these raids

But we have the other thread asking the devs not to develop Fractals like raids

:S yeah which is just stupid. The things that make raids different from old dungeons or fractals is primarily a forced focus on healing, tanking, and non combat mechanics. Things that a year and a half ago were being begged for to combat the zerk meta. They did a great job providing just that.

The ‘raid mechanics’ in Swamp are actually non existent. It’s an increased difficulty in that it’s a ‘do or die’ scenario (dodge or get massive damge, do the wisps in time or massive damage) and really it plays more like old dungeons/fractals than new raids.

Chaos is far closer to raids with it’s large repercussions if you don’t break the bar, a fixation mechanic, and the use of the special action key (hell snowblind is more similar to raids than swamp!).

" being begged for" really? seemed more like people whining about wanting the Holy Trinity in mmos, also in this game and Gw2 was the opposite of that, which is why i liked it. Self reliant on the ability to survive the encounter. It was a good unique fun thing, but apparently gw2 finally sold out to raids.

Astralporing.1957:

Gunsnroll.2657:

Don’t tell me you can’t do one escort to unlock the mastery, come on.

You need people with raid mastery in your group in order to do the escort. Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Yes, there are raid training guilds out there, but they are for people genuinely wanting to start raiding, not for unlocking raid mastery bars.

Besides, the point remains. The exp bar is locked behind an activity that Anet specifically wanted to be done by only a small minority of players.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/The-super-easy-way-to-get-into-raids

I feel like this problem is being turned into another “hurrdurr casualsh” just because it’s the raid masteries that are blocking players xp gains. This whole thing could have been avoided if we all already had the option to use the spirit shard mastery track in the first place.

Gaining xp in MMOs is such a basic thing that should not be a reward from raiding, so seeing all this “why not just do a raid? it’s not that hard” talk is annoying because while it’s true it’s not that big of an obstacle, it really shouldn’t have been there to begin with.

Razor.9872:

Astralporing.1957:

Gunsnroll.2657:

Don’t tell me you can’t do one escort to unlock the mastery, come on.

You need people with raid mastery in your group in order to do the escort. Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Yes, there are raid training guilds out there, but they are for people genuinely wanting to start raiding, not for unlocking raid mastery bars.

Besides, the point remains. The exp bar is locked behind an activity that Anet specifically wanted to be done by only a small minority of players.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/The-super-easy-way-to-get-into-raids

Let me quote to you again the part of my post that you seem to have missed:

Yes, there are raid training guilds out there, but they are for people genuinely wanting to start raiding, not for unlocking raid mastery bars.

This thread is about non-raiders, if you haven’t noticed.

neoskizle.7694:

I feel like this problem is being turned into another “hurrdurr casualsh” just because it’s the raid masteries that are blocking players xp gains. This whole thing could have been avoided if we all already had the option to use the spirit shard mastery track in the first place.

Gaining xp in MMOs is such a basic thing that should not be a reward from raiding, so seeing all this “why not just do a raid? it’s not that hard” talk is annoying because while it’s true it’s not that big of an obstacle, it really shouldn’t have been there to begin with.

But you can earn xp and spirit shards without raiding.

Ashen.2907:

neoskizle.7694:

I feel like this problem is being turned into another “hurrdurr casualsh” just because it’s the raid masteries that are blocking players xp gains. This whole thing could have been avoided if we all already had the option to use the spirit shard mastery track in the first place.

Gaining xp in MMOs is such a basic thing that should not be a reward from raiding, so seeing all this “why not just do a raid? it’s not that hard” talk is annoying because while it’s true it’s not that big of an obstacle, it really shouldn’t have been there to begin with.

But you can earn xp and spirit shards without raiding.

If:

• You own Hot (afaik, non-adopters are stuck in the pre-HoT state, with XP ticks rewarding nothing)
• You want to play in central Tyria, not in the HoT maps or BSF

Astralporing.1957:

Razor.9872:

Astralporing.1957:

Gunsnroll.2657:

Don’t tell me you can’t do one escort to unlock the mastery, come on.

You need people with raid mastery in your group in order to do the escort. Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Yes, there are raid training guilds out there, but they are for people genuinely wanting to start raiding, not for unlocking raid mastery bars.

Besides, the point remains. The exp bar is locked behind an activity that Anet specifically wanted to be done by only a small minority of players.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/The-super-easy-way-to-get-into-raids

Let me quote to you again the part of my post that you seem to have missed:

Yes, there are raid training guilds out there, but they are for people genuinely wanting to start raiding, not for unlocking raid mastery bars.

This thread is about non-raiders, if you haven’t noticed.

I did not miss it. And I am fully aware this thread is about non-raiders. But if you had read the OP’s post in the thread I provided, you’d have realized that since weekly-raiders clear the whole wing early, they are “left with not much to do during the rest of the week leaving most of us who like raiding to either PUG or form teaching groups just for fun and helping other people.”

You don’t have to join a raid guild or get serious into raiding to grab those mastery bars.

Just simply hop into a raid a little later in the week and it could end up being an easy-clear.

Edit: Also, the mainstay of my response was directed toward your statement -

Astralporing.1957:

Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Which I presented as false.

Razor.9872:

Edit: Also, the mainstay of my response was directed toward your statement -

Astralporing.1957:

Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Which I presented as false.

Did you present this as false because you know for a fact that all (I’ll even take most) raiding groups in GW2 will group with raid noobs? Or is this just your opinion based on your limited experience?

Djinn.9245:

Razor.9872:

Edit: Also, the mainstay of my response was directed toward your statement -

Astralporing.1957:

Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Which I presented as false.

Did you present this as false because you know for a fact that all (I’ll even take most) raiding groups in GW2 will group with raid noobs? Or is this just your opinion based on your limited experience?

Sure, there are engineered parties of 10 people that only raid with each other, but yes, there are raid groups that aren’t like that. In fact it had to be because every person that raids was a noob at some point. That’s not based on data, that’s just a logical conclusion.

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Razor.9872:

Edit: Also, the mainstay of my response was directed toward your statement -

Astralporing.1957:

Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Which I presented as false.

Did you present this as false because you know for a fact that all (I’ll even take most) raiding groups in GW2 will group with raid noobs? Or is this just your opinion based on your limited experience?

Sure, there are engineered parties of 10 people that only raid with each other, but yes, there are raid groups that aren’t like that. In fact it had to be because every person that raids was a noob at some point. That’s not based on data, that’s just a logical conclusion.

Yes, every GW2 raider once had never played a GW2 raid. However it is my opinion that most raid groups are formed of guildies. I believe that its very rare for a PUG to become a regular raiding group. And since a raid group is normally a “full” group, why would they leave out one member in favor of a non-raider? And how would a non-raider find such a group willing to replace one of their regular members with a new raider?

Djinn.9245:

Obtena.7952:

Djinn.9245:

Razor.9872:

Edit: Also, the mainstay of my response was directed toward your statement -

Astralporing.1957:

Raiders don’t group with raid noobs.

Which I presented as false.

Did you present this as false because you know for a fact that all (I’ll even take most) raiding groups in GW2 will group with raid noobs? Or is this just your opinion based on your limited experience?

Sure, there are engineered parties of 10 people that only raid with each other, but yes, there are raid groups that aren’t like that. In fact it had to be because every person that raids was a noob at some point. That’s not based on data, that’s just a logical conclusion.

Yes, every GW2 raider once had never played a GW2 raid. However it is my opinion that most raid groups are formed of guildies. I believe that its very rare for a PUG to become a regular raiding group. And since a raid group is normally a “full” group, why would they leave out one member in favor of a non-raider? And how would a non-raider find such a group willing to replace one of their regular members with a new raider?

A pug doesn’t have to become a regular to raid. I will repeat again as the hyperlink that I posted had stated — there are plenty of experienced raiders who continue to join pug groups throughout the week after they finish clearing everything in their main group. They do this because they are bored, but as a byproduct they end up carrying/teaching people new to raiding.

In conclusion, you don’t have to “become a raider” to raid. Just join later in the week, and you’ll likely run into experienced raiders looking to have more fun beating bosses.

Djinn.9245:

General Health.9678:

Pretty sure that if you max the tyria mastery lines you get spirit shards in core tyria when you level. So it’s also gated in core, not sure why we’re fixated on HoT.

Cause a lot of people aren’t leveling in core Tyria anymore?

Well where are all the people then? I thought nobody played HoT anymore from all the threads complaining about empty HoT maps and events. Surely you’re not claiming everyone is in Bloodstone Fen?

You level in core when you do events like world bosses, daily events, bloodstone crazed events. When you gather mats (esp for ascended / legendaries right..). It’s all XP so people are definitely still levelling in core after 80.

Djinn.9245:

Yes, every GW2 raider once had never played a GW2 raid. However it is my opinion that most raid groups are formed of guildies.

So join a guild?

Djinn.9245:

how would a non-raider find such a group willing to replace one of their regular members with a new raider?

Guild chat?

I was about to log yesterday so couldn’t join but my guild had 5 empty spots in a group and said they’d take anyone, even someone if it was their first time. Suspect the group leader was just running a fun group having already done the hardcore stuff as this wasn’t a timetabled guild event.