Guild Wars 2

Everyone (myself included) appears to be assuming that Revenants will be a ninth class and presented in the same manner as the current classes: that is to say when you create your character you first pick you race, then class, then background, name it, and hop into the default racial starting zone. This is probably the safest (and most likely correct) assumption of how Revenants will be introduced, but then that raises concerns about the apparent contradiction of PC Revenants predating Rytlock as the “first” Revenant – which in turn has given birth to speculation about unique personal stories/starting zones for Revenants.

Has anyone considered the possibility that this won’t be the case though?

Let’s consider the following:

• The expansion profession updates are largely level 80 material. The new zone, masteries, and specializations are features you only have access to with level 80 characters.
• Our exemplar Revenant is an NPC who gave up his profession to become a Revenant.

So here’s the wild, unfounded, highly unlikely speculation I want to put forth: you can’t make Revenants from the new character creation screen, you have to convert an existing level 80 by speaking to Revenant-Rytlock instead.

It sounds crazy, but here are some supporting arguments for this:

• There’s no need to modify the new character creation system to check for race and profession when determining starting zones.
• No need to provide new character slots to players with the expansion, because we’d be converting existing characters.
• It resolves the “Rytlock came first” conundrum without having to introduce an alternate personal story chain (there will probably a new personal story where the player goes through trials to become a Revenant though).
• It establishes a narrative where no Revenants could have been created before the fall of Zhaitan – so even if you do the personal story and slay Zhaitan as a Revenant, you’re simply reliving a part of your life prior to becoming a Revenant.
• Thematically it seems more appropriate than an established hero would start to channel legends than, say, an orphan who missed their calling in the circus and just took their first step outside to poke at angry centaurs.

Now what makes it unlikely is:

• It invalidates gear. ANet has made it clear that they don’t want to do this to players, so unless there was a gear exchange system in place it would force light and medium professions to scrap their gear.
• It’s a counter-intuitive way of introducing a new class. Not many MMOs handle new classes like this (only Ragnarok Online really comes to mine and even then it’s not the same) and people generally expect new classes in expansions to be immediately available rather than grind-then-promote.
• It’s too much like a permanent, cross-profession Specialization that resets your level to 1, which might be viewed as too punitive, confusing, and/or unfriendly to players.
• It sets a precedent for other class changes, which is something ANet doesn’t want to do iirc.
• Anything you folks can think of.

Disclaimer: I don’t believe this is what will happen; it’s just intended as a thought experiment; terms and conditions apply; not available in all states; a reheated plastic tray can warp or melt… reheating of tray is not recommended; RSVP; BYOB.

This? "you have to convert an existing level 80 "

No way that is happening.

no, just no

if Anet did this they would be shooting them self in the foot

honestly the one thing that convinces me revenants will start the same way and play the same way as every other profession:

Look at the PS post claw island right now.

It’s not only mixed up, but skips ‘greatest fear’ and often contradicts itself. you talked to most of the others as you cleanse orr but next mission you’re now doing the temple of the forgotten god and Sayah has completely forgotten you or has short term memory loss. This among many other issues.

Will revenant be a similar ‘contradiction’? yes, yes i think it will be. yes i think they’ll go through the same PS as every other profession. it’s the easier path for them to take with this profession rather than ’here’s instant 80 but you get no PS. yet you’re the guy Rox and everyone else follows now.’

Carlin Sanders.3587:

honestly the one thing that convinces me revenants will start the same way and play the same way as every other profession:

Look at the PS post claw island right now.

It’s not only mixed up, but skips ‘greatest fear’ and often contradicts itself. you talked to most of the others as you cleanse orr but next mission you’re now doing the temple of the forgotten god and Sayah has completely forgotten you or has short term memory loss. This among many other issues.

Will revenant be a similar ‘contradiction’? yes, yes i think it will be. yes i think they’ll go through the same PS as every other profession. it’s the easier path for them to take with this profession rather than ’here’s instant 80 but you get no PS. yet you’re the guy Rox and everyone else follows now.’

Aha, that’s one reason against the idea that I forgot to list: just plain easier to shoehorn it in.

People talk like this contradiction in the timeline is a new thing and/or special to Rytlock and Revenants. This has been the case from day 1 of the game with the PS and Zhaitan. It continues to exist with the PS and all of the events in Season 1 and 2 of the living world.

This contradiction will be ignored because it’s too expensive to update the PS.

Heck, we can’t even get that lady in Hoelbrak to stop yelling about creatures of steam and metal that she thinks nobody else has seen yet…Everything in the world needs an update but it’s not likely to ever happen.

Sigh, the power of the mists and use thereoff is nothing new, just because it is now named revenant and becomes available to the PC does not mean it never existed, personal story for revenant will be IDENTICAL.

Torsailr.8456:

Heck, we can’t even get that lady in Hoelbrak to stop yelling about creatures of steam and metal that she thinks nobody else has seen yet…

but have you cleared a path to the citadel of flames?

Won’t work for the reasons in this topic, but also your argument is invalid: imagine a character is level 80 but has barely done anything with their personal story (I have lvl80 characters who are only at the beginning of chapter 2), they could easily become a Revenant and still go and kill Zhaitan.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Won’t work for the reasons in this topic, but also your argument is invalid: imagine a character is level 80 but has barely done anything with their personal story (I have lvl80 characters who are only at the beginning of chapter 2), they could easily become a Revenant and still go and kill Zhaitan.

I addressed that with:

• It establishes a narrative where no Revenants could have been created before the fall of Zhaitan – so even if you do the personal story and slay Zhaitan as a Revenant, you’re simply reliving a part of your life prior to becoming a Revenant.

Yes, you can play the story out of order, but if you look at your personal story’s entries there’s a clear chronological order: you start adventuring sometime in 1325 AE and kill Zhaitan that same year, Heart of Thorns takes place in 1328 AE, so if you can only become a Revenant during Heart of Thorns then – from a narrative perspective – you couldn’t have been a Revenant when you killed Zhaitan, thus Rytlock remains the “first” Revenant.

I considered your idea previously OP, since it does resolve some problems, but my final thoughts were that it’s probably not how they will do it.

ANet has already said that there will never be an ability to switch professions and this would be a switch to another profession. While they have never come right out and said why, from reading their remarks on other topics, such as not being able to refund laurels or karma spent by accident, it seems that they are unable to go in and make changes to the hero panels. I suspect that when a character is made at character select, that the choices are then “hard baked” into the hero panel. I admit I don’t have firm evidence for this theory, but their refusal to offer profession changes and their inability to change the hero panel leads me to think this is correct.

Astral Projections.7320:

I admit I don’t have firm evidence for this theory, but their refusal to offer profession changes and their inability to change the hero panel leads me to think this is correct.

It certainly wouldn’t be the first time ANet has revealed it coded itself into a corner (like with how they set up incompatible dye zones and bones across armor weights).

I’m not a fast leveler, and I love my alts, so if this is how they implemented it, I would be disappointed. How about we just say that we were the “first” (along with being the “only” sylvari besides Caithe to have a wild hunt of killing dragons, etc. etc.) to find this power, but Rytlock finds out in the mists and tells everyone about it? I mean the power of these legends are probably nothing new, unless I am missing some lore details, like you have to meet the legends you are channeling, or that Rytlock freed/activated them.

most importantly, what’s its dance going to be?

Kilic Bela.4680:

most importantly, what’s its dance going to be?

Dances are based on race, not profession. So the answer to your question is, whatever the dance is for the race you choose for your Revenant

Two more reasons why this won’t happen:

One — many people are attached to their alts as they stand. All of mine have at least some RP to them. Why should I have to essentially kill off one alt and his/her story in order to start another?

Two — In the PAX South announcement, one of the first things they said was that the Revenant is there so new players can start off on equal footing with veterans on one profession. There will be no requirement to have an 80 to play Revenant.

I am 100% sure that you will start from level 1. On the first POI when the person disconnected and we saw that revenant he was level 1… Also Rytlock is the first revenant we saw in GW2 but there is a guy who returned from mists in GW1…
The npc in Rata Sum the Mist War Recruiter has been to mists and back so he’s pretty much revenant as well.

Nephziel.6053:

The npc in Rata Sum the Mist War Recruiter has been to mists and back so he’s pretty much revenant as well.

Going to the mists and coming back does not a Revenant make. Anybody can do this easily…there are portals in Lion’s Arch that go to the mists and come back. GW1 has frequent visiting to the mists as well.

Revenant means: The one who returned

During the POI the other week where they didn’t really show anything important, they did get booted from the game at one point and on the character select screen there was what everyone is at least assuming was a level one Revanent because the class symbol was unfamiliar

So I’m pretty sure we’re going to see Revanents start out just like anyone else.

Nephziel.6053:

Revenant means: The one who returned

Yes, “revenant” does mean “a person who has returned.” However we are talking about the title given to a profession as a proper noun of Revenant, which carries a more profound meaning that makes it a profession.

Bottom line, when using the proper noun version of Revenant you are referring to a person who has more than just returned, but somebody who has returned with very specific qualities that define them as a Revenant.

In other words, all 9 of my characters and the thousands of people who play WvW are revenants, but none of them are Revenants

Nope

123123123

Nah your gonna have to achieve the rank of phoenix in PVP so before your revenant can leave the mist.

If the revs are to be those that have come back from the mists with this knowledge there is no reason there couldn’t be others that have gone to the mist and come back to play through all of the historical stuff. Meh. End of the day its a new class at least. Pretty much not impressed with much from this xpac.

@OP: I think you forgot a reason this won’t be done.

Players would go through 80 levels learning the unique mechanics of their initial profession, only to have how the entire profession works become null and pointless upon changing to revenant. Even specializations only change a little and more or less still function the same.

Also:

“No need to provide new character slots to players with the expansion, because we’d be converting existing characters.”

What about players who want to have all 9 professions? You’d still be making a new character!

Carlin Sanders.3587:

honestly the one thing that convinces me revenants will start the same way and play the same way as every other profession:

Look at the PS post claw island right now.

It’s not only mixed up, but skips ‘greatest fear’ and often contradicts itself. you talked to most of the others as you cleanse orr but next mission you’re now doing the temple of the forgotten god and Sayah has completely forgotten you or has short term memory loss. This among many other issues.

Will revenant be a similar ‘contradiction’? yes, yes i think it will be. yes i think they’ll go through the same PS as every other profession. it’s the easier path for them to take with this profession rather than ’here’s instant 80 but you get no PS. yet you’re the guy Rox and everyone else follows now.’

While true they’ve said that a fix for this mess up is in the works.

Why it wasn’t implemented ASAP is anyone’s guess, however.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Just like on the current professions, you will start at level 1 when you create a new Revenant character. We want it to be easily accessible for anyone with Heart of Thorns which means not putting it behind unnecessary content gates.

Guess I’ll be using my tomes then.

Greyfur.1082:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Just like on the current professions, you will start at level 1 when you create a new Revenant character. We want it to be easily accessible for anyone with Heart of Thorns which means not putting it behind unnecessary content gates.

Guess I’ll be using my tomes then.

Finally a use for those lv20 scrolls other than key farming.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Just like on the current professions, you will start at level 1 when you create a new Revenant character. We want it to be easily accessible for anyone with Heart of Thorns which means not putting it behind unnecessary content gates.

So essentially the story-line for guildwars 2 is pointless to pay attention to . Good to know .

Thornwolf.9721:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Just like on the current professions, you will start at level 1 when you create a new Revenant character. We want it to be easily accessible for anyone with Heart of Thorns which means not putting it behind unnecessary content gates.

So essentially the story-line for guildwars 2 is pointless to pay attention to . Good to know .

as it is right now? yeah. post claw island it makes little sense, and often contradicts itself. until its fixed, whoop de do.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Just like on the current professions, you will start at level 1 when you create a new Revenant character. We want it to be easily accessible for anyone with Heart of Thorns which means not putting it behind unnecessary content gates.

I kind of expected as much, but it’s good to have some confirmation. Information is very scarce.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Just like on the current professions, you will start at level 1 when you create a new Revenant character. We want it to be easily accessible for anyone with Heart of Thorns which means not putting it behind unnecessary content gates.

Aw man, there goes my thought experiment, though the overwhelming reaction to it range from “no” to “hell no”, so it’s not like it really sparked much of a discussion.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Just like on the current professions, you will start at level 1 when you create a new Revenant character. We want it to be easily accessible for anyone with Heart of Thorns which means not putting it behind unnecessary content gates.

Hi Roy,

Will there be any attempt in making the Revenant sensible from a lore perspective? As it stands we will be seeing a class that has emerged AFTER Zhaitan has fallen, yet participating in the personal story that defeats him. I understand the mechanical need to have Revenant start like any other class, however I’m worried that their lore will be completely immersion breaking.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Just like on the current professions, you will start at level 1 when you create a new Revenant character. We want it to be easily accessible for anyone with Heart of Thorns which means not putting it behind unnecessary content gates.

You might want to revisit the NPE then.

Kaleban.9834:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Just like on the current professions, you will start at level 1 when you create a new Revenant character. We want it to be easily accessible for anyone with Heart of Thorns which means not putting it behind unnecessary content gates.

You might want to revisit the NPE then.

You might want to evaluate the context of that statement before flippantly applying it in whatever way you see fit.

Gnat.9405:

I’m worried that their lore will be completely immersion breaking.

Immersion is a joke in a game like this. It’s already lost. There’s no point in trying to preserve it.

goofs , bobby stein allready said the PS wilbe restored to its OLD contenuity. meanin gretest fear will return and the old followup willbe back again.

Would you really want to play as Race 3, sporting the awesome Class 4 into battle, leading the charge with your Sword 137 held aloft?

That’s an extreme example to make a point but it’s worth to tend to the lore and immersion up to a point, at least. A good balance. I’m hoping they’ll find a way to do this, but in this case I won’t cry myself to sleep if it’s not possible

Andred.1087:

You might want to evaluate the context of that statement before flippantly applying it in whatever way you see fit.

First, its not flippant. The same rhetoric used for the Revenant, and indeed HoT in general is what was used to “sell” the NPE, which is almost universally reviled.

As to the point of reconciling lore with mechanics, well that OTHER MMO that did so well introduced a death themed heavy class, with all new mechanics, and simply made a starting area, short questline, and integrated it into the world lore-wise relatively seamlessly despite massive amounts of existing lore and mechanics.

It CAN’T have escaped a storyboarding team of even two people that you’d need Doctor Who style time travel to reconcile shoehorning a profession into the past.

We KNOW that professions don’t have their own starting zones, and that its linked by race, but that’s because the initial design of GW2 and the Personal Story made that a good design choice. However, many parts of GW2 need to be updated, whether story, NPC dialogue, continuity, etc. so why not begin the expansion design with this in mind?

If you want to do it right, sometimes taking the harder path is what’s required. Which means creating a Death Knight style starting area, injecting Revenants post-Rytlock dive, likely starting them at a higher level (a “prestige class” perhaps that requires one lvl 80 on the account?) and polishing up the lore and story continuity. Or at least that’s what AAA titles are SUPPOSED to do.

Besides, what’s going to happen to newly created Sylvari once Mordremoth destroys the Grove, the Pale Tree is killed, blah blah? Are newly minted Sylvari a year from now going to all be time travelers? I wonder what the licensing requirements will be for a TARDIS minipet?

Kaleban.9834:

Andred.1087:

You might want to evaluate the context of that statement before flippantly applying it in whatever way you see fit.

First, its not flippant. The same rhetoric used for the Revenant, and indeed HoT in general is what was used to “sell” the NPE, which is almost universally reviled.

As to the point of reconciling lore with mechanics, well that OTHER MMO that did so well introduced a death themed heavy class, with all new mechanics, and simply made a starting area, short questline, and integrated it into the world lore-wise relatively seamlessly despite massive amounts of existing lore and mechanics.

It CAN’T have escaped a storyboarding team of even two people that you’d need Doctor Who style time travel to reconcile shoehorning a profession into the past.

We KNOW that professions don’t have their own starting zones, and that its linked by race, but that’s because the initial design of GW2 and the Personal Story made that a good design choice. However, many parts of GW2 need to be updated, whether story, NPC dialogue, continuity, etc. so why not begin the expansion design with this in mind?

If you want to do it right, sometimes taking the harder path is what’s required. Which means creating a Death Knight style starting area, injecting Revenants post-Rytlock dive, likely starting them at a higher level (a “prestige class” perhaps that requires one lvl 80 on the account?) and polishing up the lore and story continuity. Or at least that’s what AAA titles are SUPPOSED to do.

Besides, what’s going to happen to newly created Sylvari once Mordremoth destroys the Grove, the Pale Tree is killed, blah blah? Are newly minted Sylvari a year from now going to all be time travelers? I wonder what the licensing requirements will be for a TARDIS minipet?

your argument is is kinda mute since ALL main continent content on THAT MMO is lore wise in cataclysm but the boss of one faction isn´t evne around anymore creating for ever ynew palyer the element that you ahve two bosses, the one that IS the boss and the one who was but IS the boss in the zone you currently questing in.
not to mention that now THREE external zones maps are now also out of date and not lore relevant anymore.

you practicly go from cataclysm to bunring crusade (which palyed LONG before cataclym) to wrath which is irrelevant because arthas is dead to MOP which is lorewise irrelevant because garrosh is dead (spoilers) goin to the new content which alone is relevant.

your ONE starting zones doesn´t make sense in ana rgument of lore friednlyness

Time is non-linear in the Mists.

The Big Kitty gets sucked into the Mist, becomes a Revenant, gets spat back out 100 years ago, teaches the secrets of Revenent to the Tyrians, gets sucked back in the mist trying to get back to his time, Emerges now.

No need to note anything on it, since time is paradox correcting, you blink your eyes and you just remeber Revenants as being a common thing. Destiny’s Edge gets confuse though, because they were so close to Rytlock that they remeber the real past.

I’m over 100 tomes of knowledge.

Well Pandaman, I for one wanted the same thing. I appreciate efforts at consistency in lore, and hate having to overlook when living story Mordremoth vines sprout through immersion in the personal story. Ideally for me, the new revenant profession would have some story explanation. It would be unlocked as part of a story or quest, similar to unlocking class specializations in Dragon Age Inquisition. I imagine Rytlock training you, and undergoing some kind of trial in the mists with the legends being channeled. I understand that this is infeasible and wouldn’t be enjoyed by the majority of players, so like so many other aspects of GW2, I’ll just have to fill in the holes with head canon.

It’s somewhat frustrating how negative everyone else’s responses to your post have been. It’s not a crazy idea that Arenanet should strive for consistency in story. I like to think that people participating on this forum generally aren’t those who care about lore. Regardless, thanks for posting your thoughts, Pandaman.