Guild Wars 2

Dear Anet,

This has been my first beta weekend for HoT and so far I have tried the Daredevil and Dragonhunter elite specs and I thoroughly enjoyed playing them.

In fact I loved playing the Daredevil so much that I want to have the experience of leveling as one! I might even want to level a Reaper (because I sort of hate Necro core specs and weapons, but would probably level one as Reaper if I could because it seems aligned with my play style).

However, it is my understanding that you plan that Elite Specs will not be unlocked till level 80, per a prior blog post. This is rather sad face.

So, I humbly and wholeheartedly implore that you PLEASE reconsider this decision and allow Elite Spec lines to be available at level 21 when we first unlock the trait lines. That would be awesome. It would also allow for REALLY learning the class — the subtleties and ins-and-outs that are required for mastering these elite specs (in some cases). And it would be a complete blast, plus create tons of new depth to the game experience for everyone!

Anyways, that’s my petition. I hope it happens. I won’t scream if it doesn’t.

Thanks for listening!

I understand why you ask for elite spec before lvl80 but imo 21 is too soon.
I think somewhere like lvl60 should be fine, but I think 80 is a good choice.

If you allow player to take elite spec at lvl21 they will probably rush to get them because it has the word “elite” in it and the new weapon. And I think that they are a bit too powerfull for GW2 vanilla content (i’m talking PvE events and hearts). Wich is weird because normal spec and elite spec don’t seems to be more/less efficient in VB (personnal opinion).

Anyway my point is, people should levelup their char as it has been until now. Because the core class always gonna be there and elite spec should be added later. So I think it is nice to know the basic class before going to what’s new in order to appreciate it for what it is: a new way of playing the class.

I think it’s fine as it is now. Unlock at lvl 80. That’s just one more reason for people to push through that horror that is the NPE. If they got the elite spec before 80, they might not bother reaching 80. By reaching the level cap, it gives players a chance to really get a feel for the profession (assuming they don’t cheat level with tomes and such) so that they can really appreciate the differences the elite specs provide.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

I think it’s fine as it is now. Unlock at lvl 80. That’s just one more reason for people to push through that horror that is the NPE. If they got the elite spec before 80, they might not bother reaching 80. By reaching the level cap, it gives players a chance to really get a feel for the profession (assuming they don’t cheat level with tomes and such) so that they can really appreciate the differences the elite specs provide.

I think level 60 is good. By level 60 you’ve already gotten a feel for the profession and can appreciate it, and there needs to be something to shake up the experience partway through leveling. As is the later levels don’t have much major unlocks besides extra trait lines, which are sparse.

Do keep in mind they haven’t revealed how exactly unlocked elite specs works btw.

while i wouldnt totally mind getting elite specs earlier, i think that wont be posible because what Anet had in mind is that lore wise the classes obtained these new powers either in maguma or shortly before as preparation to face mordremorth

To have the option will be welcome every time…. So you dont want to go elite at 21? just dont take it, you have the option; but taking away the option fr the people who wanted it so hard is not the solution…. y really like to level nice and slow in this game and to have the optionn of doing it with the new toys, will be awsome!… please Anet!! make it happen

Kind of missing the point with specializations it seems.

elite specialisation is part of the end game character progression.
With this I mean that it is ment to be something you do after you experienced the core game.

There is absolutly no need to experience specialisation before that.
Why not start levelling up a necro and a thief now? you got plenty of time before HoT release to get atleast one to level 80.

If they where to be avaliable before 80 it would mean people would complain that they don’t have enough hero points to max their character at level 80. It seems Elite Spec’s are very expensive and may require players who have not explored to explore alittle more of the world before they can max out the Elite Spec.

Yargesh.4965:

Kind of missing the point with specializations it seems.

THIS

Zaron.1987:

Yargesh.4965:

Kind of missing the point with specializations it seems.

THIS

I concur. Receiving elite specs before the end game seems rather backwards.

You are all talking from the position of someone who has a level 80 already, and most expansions (Including this one if the free 2 play is anything to go by) is about attracting new players.

New players want the new content quickly and having to wait until the level cap to unlock features has been tried in almost every mmo and is always a decision they reverse later on admitting it was a bad one.

I only bought GW2 a few weeks ago, specifically to play Chronomancer and having to wait until level 80, and by the sounds of this then spend a long time getting the extra point just to play it sucks.

So I have played Mesmer until ~25 then level 80 Chronomancer in beta and there is very little difference by way of playstyle so excuses about ‘learning’ are irrelevant.

I understand wanting to award the high levels, but class choices like this are a bad way of doing it.

Maybe, but we had to wait 3 years for class improvement Which is far worse than what new players have to suffers.
New players have a wealth of content ahead to level with and enjoy plus if they are truly desperate, there is a month a half to level to 80 and be ready.

This is intended as level 80 progression and should remain kitten.

I was personally hoping that there would be something special, like a short sequence of missions, or a storyline instance, that needs to be completed in order to unlock a specification.

Kaz.5430:

I was personally hoping that there would be something special, like a short sequence of missions, or a storyline instance, that needs to be completed in order to unlock a specification.

I too am hoping that we have to venture into VB and complete a couple of quests to “learn” about the elite specializations.

I really don’t want to login on the 23rd of October to be told “Hey, your proffesion can now specialize as a elite_spec”.

I want to earn it!

80 is fine, if you’re wanting to test/learn it there’s always pvp.

There is absolutely no reason to have to wait to spec elite. Considering how much some of them change the base class it actually makes sense to be able to start using them as soon as possible. That way you learn the elite through the life of the character rather than learning the base class then having to relearn the elite. Now, I’m in favor of having to unlock them through end game content, but I feel this unlock should be along the line of Masteries. Once it’s unlocked it’s account wide and any new character of that class can just access it.

I’m actually in favor of forcing people into other parts of the game to learn and test. I mean its perfectly fine when WvW players are forced to PvE but as soon as it affects a PvE player the sky is falling. Keep it at 80 anet, if they want to learn it they can go to PvP.

It’s an endgame thing to use elite specs. I love herald so much that leveling my rev will feel stilted but there are plenty of things I can’t do on an under level 80 character. The point is to have a goal to aim towards!

These elite specs are an evolution of the core professions, so lore-wise our characters can only figure it out after mastering themselves up to level 80. Game-wise, if we just had all content available before level 80 then the level system would be pointless anyway. I think it’s okay to have some things that can only be advanced at level 80 such as elite specs and masteries. They’re meant to be a thing that one works towards after reaching the 80 cap.

As i say before… is good to have the option (to specialize before 80 and kitten soon is possible) so if someone wants it is ok…. if someone doesnt wants it well just dont take it…. or are you telling me that taking away the option from other people who wants it just beacause you fell is lore wise for “your” character is ok? beside @I See No Tomorrow you are gona to play a Revenan thats a brand new and shiny class everything will be new to you even if you dont have the Herald you will play that leveling experience far defirent that you do before… I personaly enjoy the leveling far more than the endgame conten and i will really enjoy to acompany my new friends playing FTP playing with the good old classes playing in a fun diferent fashion… period..

Its end game content, I seriously hope they don’t buy into giving it out pre 80. If they do I have an entire list of requests I fully expect them to give me.

The thing is that getting to 80 is ridiculously fast compared to maxing level in other games. It can very casually be done in well under a month, which isn’t really time for most players to get to know the ins and outs of a profession as it is.

Elites and Masteries were designed in to satisfy those who wanted post-80 progression. They are made to open up the game further once someone’s figured out the earlier stuff. That’s what above posters mean about “missing the point.” You’ll play at 80 for a lot longer than it’ll take to get there, hopefully. There’ll be plenty of time to explore the horizontal progression, which will be there in order to keep you interested in and adding to your profession.

mercury ranique.2170:

elite specialisation is part of the end game character progression.
With this I mean that it is ment to be something you do after you experienced the core game.

There is absolutly no need to experience specialisation before that.
Why not start levelling up a necro and a thief now? you got plenty of time before HoT release to get atleast one to level 80.

Let’s say you’ve leveled one of each of the professions to level 80. When you get elite specs, you can add them to the characters, no problem. All’s well so far, right?

Now, let’s say that you decide to make a second one of something. Necro, in this case. You start at level 1, and … well, you’ve already done all of this. It’s all the same, no real changes and no new options. Any elite specs they add won’t even matter until you’re at level 80, so the entire leveling process is unchanged.

Now, let’s say that we change things a bit. Your first level 80 unlocks the elite spec, after which new characters can earn the trait line and skills like any others. Then, move the slot the elite specs can go into to the first slot, which unlocks at level 21.

Now when you level a Necro, there are new options. You can use the new stuff starting at level 21, allowing you to try new things on your path to level 80. And as even more elite specs are added in the future, the replay value of the base game actually grows, because you get more ways to play through it with each class.

Yes, you can just level with crafting and EXP items, but that kind of skips past arguments on both sides of this. When the game’s played to level 80 with normal EXP gain, the new options would make the leveling process more interesting, maybe even enough that more people would want to grab an extra character slot and run through it again.

(Just to make it clear, though, I want this to unlock when you get one of that class to level 80. It should still be end game progression, at least the first time. But with changeable builds, there’s little functional gain from having two of any class. Reasons to roll up new ones kind of NEED to be focused on the fun of it, and this could add some fun.)

You know what else would make it more interesting ?

Once you have entered a raid area if it was unlocked for your low levels this way you could raid scaled down content so the raids at 80 would be easy peasy because have had the opportunity to play it all the way to 80. Also lets make ascended gear scale down so u can wear it and never have to worry about gear. Lets also make fractals for low levels, this way we can have no end game content but the leveling process sure will be fun.

I seriously hope you can see the flaws.

It’s called an Elite Specialization for a reason, I agree with ArenaNet’s current design. They would have to change the name of it if they were going to do what you said, meaning it is highly likely it won’t happen, because the point of an Elite Specialization is to progress your current self into an elite form. That only makes sense on a level 80 character who has the knowledge of the profession and is therefore worthy of using it. Doing it at level 60 or any level before 80 would be a bad idea, because you only have an idea of the profession. It’s not until 80 that you really flesh it out with solid builds. People below 80 don’t have the armour/weapon/trinket stats, foods, oils, skill rotations and trait setups thought out enough to be considered “elite”.

Random.4691:

You know what else would make it more interesting ?

Once you have entered a raid area if it was unlocked for your low levels this way you could raid scaled down content so the raids at 80 would be easy peasy because have had the opportunity to play it all the way to 80. Also lets make ascended gear scale down so u can wear it and never have to worry about gear. Lets also make fractals for low levels, this way we can have no end game content but the leveling process sure will be fun.

I seriously hope you can see the flaws.

I wish that you could see how completely different these things are and how your analogy is not in any way relevant.

It is completely relevant, end game content to be given to low levels is still end game content being given to low levels.

Just because you choose to view it differently because it suits what you want does not make it any different.

If you’re playing the game regularly you can have a level 80 quite fast. Unless you never play but once a week you will definitely have your character to level 80 before HoT releases.

Mo Mo.1947:

If you’re playing the game regularly you can have a level 80 quite fast. Unless you never play but once a week you will definitely have your character to level 80 before HoT releases.

So, given that it’s such a small jump, you’re okay with it being accessible to a level 21?

Random.4691:

It is completely relevant, end game content to be given to low levels is still end game content being given to low levels.

Just because you choose to view it differently because it suits what you want does not make it any different.

This is part of the reason I want it to be first unlocked by a level 80, and THEN be accessible to lower levels on the account.

Think of it like the incoming raid rewards skins. Yes, you need to be high level to unlock them. Once you have, though, you can use them on lower level characters at will. It seems to me that this would be the best of both worlds.

How exactly would it hurt any of you if someone were able to choose to use their elite spec as soon as traits were available? Who’s being harmed in this scenario?

Michelangelo.1742:

It’s called an Elite Specialization for a reason, I agree with ArenaNet’s current design. They would have to change the name of it if they were going to do what you said, meaning it is highly likely it won’t happen, because the point of an Elite Specialization is to progress your current self into an elite form. That only makes sense on a level 80 character who has the knowledge of the profession and is therefore worthy of using it. Doing it at level 60 or any level before 80 would be a bad idea, because you only have an idea of the profession. It’s not until 80 that you really flesh it out with solid builds. People below 80 don’t have the armour/weapon/trinket stats, foods, oils, skill rotations and trait setups thought out enough to be considered “elite”.

It’s only “Elite” in the name and the fact that you can only have one elite spec slotted (when more are available). Elite specs are supposed to be balanced with the base profession and not be a straight up upgrade to the base profession.

I would like it that if you have at least one character at level 80 in a profession you can use it’s Elite Spec on any character on your account with that profession. I’ve played a warrior to 80 already, thanks. Let my new Warrior experience leveling up through the content as a Berserker, starting as early as possible.

80 is fine, right now elite specs aren’t that confusing, but when you have 4 for each class, that is not something you want a lvl 21 player to worry about. Let players level in the normal class specs. Elite specs are something you want to contain into lvl 80.

I really dont know how could people so selfish exist….. it hurts no one to have the elite early….. Even those 80 PPL who are arguin about to not to have, i must ask you a question; why did you care so much about the people that wants the elite earlier do not get it? is not like you will be running with your 80 in the open low pve areas… in what way doest it hurt you or hurts the game…. Even this so called expecializations doesn’t bring a op factor in leveling is just a new way to do the things, even i know many many players who are gonna to stick to vanilla for the end game contend and even pvp just beacause vanilla talents are much better in some cases….

Elite Specs have a design function above and beyond being a Spec to play, they are designed for level 80 significance and a form of character progression.

I’m sure it would be super fun to level as a Chronomancer but the design decison is solid and shouldn’t be undone.

Nope, I mained a necro through it’s bad days, I get to be a reaper quick. You get your current main classes elite specialisation quick, fair deal.

It’s ideal in my eyes, Having it can be somewhat of a status symbol and proof of your proficiency at that class. Unlocking them all at once would remove some replayability on different classes.

IMO people are going about this the wrong way. I would instead unlock elite specializations for the account at LV80. That would allow people to roll out a new character to level as the elite spec without causing trouble for new players.

Not sure at first unlock would be a good idea. Maybe level 45? Though, even then, it would take a lot of hero points to manage and probably make the leveling experience feel slow for some players, especially newer ones.

Random.4691:

Its end game content, I seriously hope they don’t buy into giving it out pre 80. If they do I have an entire list of requests I fully expect them to give me.

Classes* are not content. Multiple games make that mistake and all of them undo it later.

People who are already invested in the game will play it anyway, people who aren’t invested are the ones tempted by the new classes are not going to play until level 80 just to try it.

All I have read so far is “Waaah I had to level so should you”.

*I am aware it is not a class, but changes gameplay to such an extent that it might as well be.

elite specs were invented for the sole purpose of ENDGAME progression. doing this would entirely defeat the purpose of even putting them in the game to begin with. this request is foolish and short sighted.

What’s short sighted about “I already have an 80th level Ranger and would buy another character slot to try playing through the core maps again as a Druid.”?

Level 80 please. Make progression mean something!

No for three reasons.

1. Elite specs are only able to be equipped in the Third Specialization Slot which unlocks at 71. We don’t need them recoding things this late in the process.
2. Elite specs are End Game progression as has been pointed out many times. It’s not about restrictions players is about introducing a new system of progression.
3. Elite specs are also Expansion content. They are designed to be immediately equipped in the core came by everyone, free account or otherwise. They are meant to be discovered, unlocked, and then used to your advantage in the jungle.

And two anyone who wants to play the level 80 card, I started a necromancer last week for the reaper spec that I am levelling with out tomes, any of you can do it too.

Nike.2631:

What’s short sighted about “I already have an 80th level Ranger and would buy another character slot to try playing through the core maps again as a Druid.”?

Because the OP is asking for access to elite specs at level 21, which defeats the intent of arena net.

Even if they were made available at 21 (which is not that big of a coding challenge, honest) locking them behind having gotten a character of that profession to Level 80 first meets all of those needs people are putting forward. Making alts IS an endgame activity after you have an 80 of that profession and something worth encouraging to extend the life of the game and multiply the usefulness of the core maps.

The game already has (with varying degrees of success) scaling to zone. It takes some unnecessary jumping through hoops, but you already can make a character, get them through the intro instance, pop them to 80 thirty seconds after you get to a bank and pull out your tomes, and then go play through the world, but its kind of a pain in the butt when all I’m looking to do is extend the life of the content…!

Nike.2631:

Even if they were made available at 21 (which is not that big of a coding challenge, honest) locking them behind having gotten a character of that profession to Level 80 first meets all of those needs people are putting forward. Making alts IS an endgame activity after you have an 80 of that profession and something worth encouraging to extend the life of the game and multiply the usefulness of the core maps.

The game already has (with varying degrees of success) scaling to zone. It takes some unnecessary jumping through hoops, but you already can make a character, get them through the intro instance, pop them to 80 thirty seconds after you get to a bank and pull out your tomes, and then go play through the world, but its kind of a pain in the butt when all I’m looking to do is extend the life of the content…!

making alts is not technically endgame. nothing is stopping new players who aren’t 80 from making alts. also I don’t think Anet made a statement about if elite specs unlock on alts after being gained by an 80 or not yet.

Deth.4109:

making alts is not technically endgame. nothing is stopping new players who aren’t 80 from making alts. also I don’t think Anet made a statement about if elite specs unlock on alts after being gained by an 80 or not yet.

ANet has not told us how we unlock them, no. For all we know, they unlock across the account or something after the first character unlocks them. It would make sense, given that part of the unlocks is a weapon and armor skin, which you’d really only need once.

Which brings up an interesting point, actually. The third traitline slot, where the elite goes, unlocks at 71. It’s only 9 levels early, but are we sure that you actually have to wait for level 80?

Palador.2170:

Deth.4109:

making alts is not technically endgame. nothing is stopping new players who aren’t 80 from making alts. also I don’t think Anet made a statement about if elite specs unlock on alts after being gained by an 80 or not yet.

ANet has not told us how we unlock them, no. For all we know, they unlock across the account or something after the first character unlocks them. It would make sense, given that part of the unlocks is a weapon and armor skin, which you’d really only need once.

Which brings up an interesting point, actually. The third traitline slot, where the elite goes, unlocks at 71. It’s only 9 levels early, but are we sure that you actually have to wait for level 80?

as far as I know the 80 only part is set in stone.

Deth.4109:

as far as I know the 80 only part is set in stone.

That’s just it though, we don’t know. There are details missing that might change this discussion. If each elite spec is an account wide unlock, for example, then you only get to do it once no matter how many of that class you have. Or maybe you have to fully unlock it for each character. These details may make the OP’s suggestion more or less reasonable.

All we really know about unlocking them is that it’s supposed to be done by a level 80. That’s actually not much information at all, we need more.