Guild Wars 2

selan.8354:

they said that with eotm too. and honestly the new map looks exactly like eotm! and eotm is pve driven and has a ton of pve shrines and pve mobs. the preiviwe and trailers are enough to show that the new map is eotm 2.0. i can see already a ton of pve in it!

EotM is PvD driven, caused by the fact it doesn’t count for PPT. Since it was originally meant as an overflow for those stuck in a queue, there is no reason to defend any objectives there either…

The PvE aspect (which is as miniscule as some “collect xy events”) is ignored by anyone running around there, since most of the events slow down leveling. Basically, what you have in EotM is a huge blob of lemmings knocking on doors, killing guards and keep lords and standing in circles – rinse and repeat. Also a small part of EotM’s map population consists of upscales who get told to get out of real WvW by (more or less) friendly WvW players. These players try out siege mechanics and kill their first few enemies in EotM. Many of these players move to real WvW once they got the hang of it.

selan.8354:

i was in eotm beta and me and others wrote to anet as a feedback that eotm was complicated and would favor ktrains because of the long distances u have to go just to get to your group and all the pve mobs and pve reward chests and also that all the pve elements were too much.

I just hope that ANet doesn’t define “too complicated for our player base” based on that feedback. I fail to see the complicated PvE mechanics in EotM/never encountered these mechanics while leveling my alts. As already mentioned, the few PvE mechanics existent there can be (and currently are being) ignored. Since this is however not a real WvW map in the first place it shouldn’t matter that these mechanics exist. To me it looks like EotM was a testing ground for new mechanics and I expect to see the good ones in the new map. There are however many mechanics I don’t hope to see there…

The PvE chests you’re complaining about have probably been added due to the total absence of “rewards” in WvW (compared to PvE rewards). shrugs

The k-train part however is valid – and probably intended. Do you remember all the arguments in WvW between PPT oriented players and k-train players? I do, and I’m glad both have a place to go now. Problem solved.

selan.8354:

now all wvw guilds that treat eotm as a joke! its a joke where we go trolling. my zergbusting group goes ther to kill pve scrubs over and over and over. we even spawncamp them and watch them cry and whisper to us that we were so evil and that they just want some karma.
thats what eotm is for us. we troll or level an alt up but we play serious in our borderlands and eb!

I have been in WvW guilds about 90% of my time in this game and can’t remember doing that even once (if you don’t count killing guild groups who went to EotM in order to kill upscales that is). Our time was better invested in real WvW anyway with it counting towards PPT and having real zergs to bust there. Also I have an opinion about trolls killing upscales in EotM which I will refrain from elaborating any further here.

selan.8354:

im telling u that this map is probably even worse than eotm because it has now even more jumping elements and places to troll and the meta will be only cc heavies that push people to their death and war/guard/revenent that have massive access to stability.

The only real jumping elements we currently know of are the jumping pads near air keep (which are merely a shortcut). Apart from that your screens show normal structures you can walk on. A short video is hardly a reliable source for deducing the exact amount of “JPs” and PvE mechanics included in the new map.

Regarding the meta: You always need stability evenly distributed to not get knocked around – even now on the current map. I doubt this will change anytime soon. Which other roles there will be can hardly be predicted based on the information currently available…

im trying to point out that eotm is not a place a wvw player regularly goes. it does look like the shrines and element that they have in eotm, so i think that those elements are gonna be pretty dominant in wvw. whereas a camp is yes important but still not interfeering with fights or giving buffs. thats my only concern with the shrines i have.

the elements that are jumping puzzle like can be seen in the trailers. like the fire passage that does look like a jumping puzzle element and also the multiple traps that arenet placed by players. as a wvw player i like placing my own traps at the right place and time. i dont need ai to do that for me. same with the eotm ai operated cannons we rather use them ourselves.

there were sooo many suggestions from wvw players and a lot of them were really interesting and good….i see none of them implemented when looking at this weird map design and the pve ai add ons.

look i dont mind the map as whole if it wasnt replacing the current borderlands. why dont we test it out for a few weeks and i dont mean beat testes i mean when hot hits and see first how people like the map.

if im wrong with my prediction that the map is eotm fail material, then im happy to accept it as a borderland map. but just throwing this map at us with sooo many changes, is not a nice way to treat the wvw community.

the new map sure has a ton of new elements and this has to be tested first by wvw players not beta testers. i mean wvw veterans. make it optional first thats all im saying! because if it is a pve driven map with ai dominating everything, it will be really hard for a wvw player to accept all of that at once. trust me i wanted eotm to be cool! i wanted to like it, i never could because the oil and weird guards and all that weird map layout…all the pve mobs…its just not wvw!

also erm a mega event every 3 hours where u have to COLLEEECT ORBS and fill a laser is not a pve event right? thats totally what awvw player wants right?

laser insta destroys papergates.
its a pve event!

and its to push the wvw community away. thats all anet want. they only want pve players and keep kicking the wvw playebase straight in the face with this map they show me exactly that.

erhm… I spend the majority of my time in WvWvW, and I’m pretty excited about the new map (possibly because I’m sick of the existing borderlands).. so yeah… you don’t talk for this guy.

What you seem to be forgetting is, for all of your supposed expertise on the subject, is that all of these “PvE events” create opportunities for new fights against other servers that aren’t just attacking towers or Mightblast-MeleeTrain-Healblast-MeleeTrain-Rinse-Repeat.

If everyone on the map is going to a specified zone to collect a finite resource in order to gain a huge advantage, how is that not going to create huge fights? Also, servers are going to have to balance doing the objective and fighting the enemy—which opens up a new avenue for strategy.

Fall damage mitigation? Stealth-providing sand storms? The ability to walk over lava? Those all sound like mechanics that provide opportunities for savvy WvWvWers to create new strategies to use and counter these mechanics to more effectively… fight other players.

See, there’s really two types of players. Someone who sees a change and looks for opportunities, and someone who sees a change and looks for reasons to QQ. I am firmly in the former camp…

fine thats your opinion. still i think the new map should be made optional and not replace the current borderlands. the events are a major turn off for me and the fire walking and stelath sandstorms and all this is more pve than actual fighting and it looks like there is not enough space for fights.

the map is a huuuuuuuuuge change and should be introduced carefully. thats why make it optional like eotmdont just throw this map at us and expect us to be happy.

i hate al these events ill be only queueing for eb.

WvW isn’t simply PvP which is one of the problems with opinions like this.

And having jumping/platforming will stay, not be changed or removed because you dislike it or suck at them.

Today I learnt that all WvW players have the same mentality.

Not a single person enjoys escorting Yaks/Upgrading Keeps/Siege
Not a single person enjoys taking a keep/holding it (ppt)
No one enjoys winning WvW

All WvW’ers are represented by the OP and the only thing that matters in WvW is Zerg vs Zerg.

WvW’ers have been crying (SO MUCH QQ) for change since like a month after launch. Now you are getting it, it’s QQ THEY ARE CHANGING WVW.

Crystallize.8603:

Today I learnt that all WvW players have the same mentality.

Not a single person enjoys escorting Yaks/Upgrading Keeps/Siege
Not a single person enjoys taking a keep/holding it (ppt)
No one enjoys winning WvW

All WvW’ers are represented by the OP and the only thing that matters in WvW is Zerg vs Zerg.

WvW’ers have been crying (SO MUCH QQ) for change since like a month after launch. Now you are getting it, it’s QQ THEY ARE CHANGING WVW.

i dont know which server u are on, but on mine is a different mentality. we are qqing because the changes turn wvw into a pve event driven thing and not a better wvw. yes, we wanted a new map, yes we were asking for changes. we had a ton of ideas and everyone kept voicing their ideas. some of them were great ideas.

its like this:
u have a nice black suit and u wear it everywhere and u like it, but after some time the buttons come off and it has a few holes. so yeah u think its time fore a new suit, but this time u ant a whit tuxedo maybe with special buttons and a cool tie. well over months u hear nothing from the guys supposed to make your new tuxedo. u get a new tie here and there and they polish your shoes ones in a while but no tuxedo.
then finally u get a cal that its ready. u rush there and ….its a white dress instead of a whit tuxedo. they call it the eotm dress. it has special pearls that goes with it and looks great…but its a white dress and thats for girls…u tell the guy u wanted a tuxedo not a dress. so the wait starts again. u get some too small shoes here and there and then some random ties but no tuxedo still. finally a call about the store making big changes. u hear of new fancy buttons and nicer shoes and amazing ties and yes u hear that your order is almost ready. so u go and preview it. and …its a a pink dress with fairy wings that glows in the dark. something every fairy princess wants right?
all the girls in the store tell u, com on its beautiful u should try it!

get the point?

selan.8354:

Crystallize.8603:

Today I learnt that all WvW players have the same mentality.

Not a single person enjoys escorting Yaks/Upgrading Keeps/Siege
Not a single person enjoys taking a keep/holding it (ppt)
No one enjoys winning WvW

All WvW’ers are represented by the OP and the only thing that matters in WvW is Zerg vs Zerg.

WvW’ers have been crying (SO MUCH QQ) for change since like a month after launch. Now you are getting it, it’s QQ THEY ARE CHANGING WVW.

i dont know which server u are on, but on mine is a different mentality. we are qqing because the changes turn wvw into a pve event driven thing and not a better wvw. yes, we wanted a new map, yes we were asking for changes. we had a ton of ideas and everyone kept voicing their ideas. some of them were great ideas.

its like this:
u have a nice black suit and u wear it everywhere and u like it, but after some time the buttons come off and it has a few holes. so yeah u think its time fore a new suit, but this time u ant a whit tuxedo maybe with special buttons and a cool tie. well over months u hear nothing from the guys supposed to make your new tuxedo. u get a new tie here and there and they polish your shoes ones in a while but no tuxedo.
then finally u get a cal that its ready. u rush there and ….its a white dress instead of a whit tuxedo. they call it the eotm dress. it has special pearls that goes with it and looks great…but its a white dress and thats for girls…u tell the guy u wanted a tuxedo not a dress. so the wait starts again. u get some too small shoes here and there and then some random ties but no tuxedo still. finally a call about the store making big changes. u hear of new fancy buttons and nicer shoes and amazing ties and yes u hear that your order is almost ready. so u go and preview it. and …its a a pink dress with fairy wings that glows in the dark. something every fairy princess wants right?
all the girls in the store tell u, com on its beautiful u should try it!

get the point?

That analogy bordered on the nonsensical.

It’s more like you work at a newspaper and type everything on a typewriter. Then, one day, your employer takes your typewriter away and gives you a brand new laptop. Then you complain that you have to push a button to turn it on.

MattyP.6954:

selan.8354:

Crystallize.8603:

Today I learnt that all WvW players have the same mentality.

Not a single person enjoys escorting Yaks/Upgrading Keeps/Siege
Not a single person enjoys taking a keep/holding it (ppt)
No one enjoys winning WvW

All WvW’ers are represented by the OP and the only thing that matters in WvW is Zerg vs Zerg.

WvW’ers have been crying (SO MUCH QQ) for change since like a month after launch. Now you are getting it, it’s QQ THEY ARE CHANGING WVW.

i dont know which server u are on, but on mine is a different mentality. we are qqing because the changes turn wvw into a pve event driven thing and not a better wvw. yes, we wanted a new map, yes we were asking for changes. we had a ton of ideas and everyone kept voicing their ideas. some of them were great ideas.

its like this:
u have a nice black suit and u wear it everywhere and u like it, but after some time the buttons come off and it has a few holes. so yeah u think its time fore a new suit, but this time u ant a whit tuxedo maybe with special buttons and a cool tie. well over months u hear nothing from the guys supposed to make your new tuxedo. u get a new tie here and there and they polish your shoes ones in a while but no tuxedo.
then finally u get a cal that its ready. u rush there and ….its a white dress instead of a whit tuxedo. they call it the eotm dress. it has special pearls that goes with it and looks great…but its a white dress and thats for girls…u tell the guy u wanted a tuxedo not a dress. so the wait starts again. u get some too small shoes here and there and then some random ties but no tuxedo still. finally a call about the store making big changes. u hear of new fancy buttons and nicer shoes and amazing ties and yes u hear that your order is almost ready. so u go and preview it. and …its a a pink dress with fairy wings that glows in the dark. something every fairy princess wants right?
all the girls in the store tell u, com on its beautiful u should try it!

get the point?

That analogy bordered on the nonsensical.

It’s more like you work at a newspaper and type everything on a typewriter. Then, one day, your employer takes your typewriter away and gives you a brand new laptop. Then you complain that you have to push a button to turn it on.

nope thats not how it is its not advancing is a complete different thing if they change the borderlands to a map that is event and ai driven.

selan.8354:

MattyP.6954:

selan.8354:

Crystallize.8603:

Today I learnt that all WvW players have the same mentality.

Not a single person enjoys escorting Yaks/Upgrading Keeps/Siege
Not a single person enjoys taking a keep/holding it (ppt)
No one enjoys winning WvW

All WvW’ers are represented by the OP and the only thing that matters in WvW is Zerg vs Zerg.

WvW’ers have been crying (SO MUCH QQ) for change since like a month after launch. Now you are getting it, it’s QQ THEY ARE CHANGING WVW.

i dont know which server u are on, but on mine is a different mentality. we are qqing because the changes turn wvw into a pve event driven thing and not a better wvw. yes, we wanted a new map, yes we were asking for changes. we had a ton of ideas and everyone kept voicing their ideas. some of them were great ideas.

its like this:
u have a nice black suit and u wear it everywhere and u like it, but after some time the buttons come off and it has a few holes. so yeah u think its time fore a new suit, but this time u ant a whit tuxedo maybe with special buttons and a cool tie. well over months u hear nothing from the guys supposed to make your new tuxedo. u get a new tie here and there and they polish your shoes ones in a while but no tuxedo.
then finally u get a cal that its ready. u rush there and ….its a white dress instead of a whit tuxedo. they call it the eotm dress. it has special pearls that goes with it and looks great…but its a white dress and thats for girls…u tell the guy u wanted a tuxedo not a dress. so the wait starts again. u get some too small shoes here and there and then some random ties but no tuxedo still. finally a call about the store making big changes. u hear of new fancy buttons and nicer shoes and amazing ties and yes u hear that your order is almost ready. so u go and preview it. and …its a a pink dress with fairy wings that glows in the dark. something every fairy princess wants right?
all the girls in the store tell u, com on its beautiful u should try it!

get the point?

That analogy bordered on the nonsensical.

It’s more like you work at a newspaper and type everything on a typewriter. Then, one day, your employer takes your typewriter away and gives you a brand new laptop. Then you complain that you have to push a button to turn it on.

nope thats not how it is its not advancing is a complete different thing if they change the borderlands to a map that is event and ai driven.

Actually, the typewriter metaphor works—just replace “event and ai” with “electricity” or “software.”

What this really comes down to is that you’re scared of change. They’re implementing changes that will cause players to respond with new strategies, builds, and play-styles, and you’re terrified that you won’t be able to do exactly what you do in WvWvW (and have been doing for going on 3 years) on the new map.

Here’s the thing though… you are necessarily straw-manning the new map. You haven’t played it… nobody outside of ArenaNet has to my knowledge. You are looking at environmental factors and screaming “PVE RUN!” when… you’re still fighting other players. Adding new and interesting mechanics to a map isn’t a bad thing… unless you’re afraid you can’t adapt.

I’m looking forward to new and exciting ways to kill other players on a grand scale—you should too.

MattyP.6954:

selan.8354:

MattyP.6954:

selan.8354:

Crystallize.8603:

Today I learnt that all WvW players have the same mentality.

Not a single person enjoys escorting Yaks/Upgrading Keeps/Siege
Not a single person enjoys taking a keep/holding it (ppt)
No one enjoys winning WvW

All WvW’ers are represented by the OP and the only thing that matters in WvW is Zerg vs Zerg.

WvW’ers have been crying (SO MUCH QQ) for change since like a month after launch. Now you are getting it, it’s QQ THEY ARE CHANGING WVW.

i dont know which server u are on, but on mine is a different mentality. we are qqing because the changes turn wvw into a pve event driven thing and not a better wvw. yes, we wanted a new map, yes we were asking for changes. we had a ton of ideas and everyone kept voicing their ideas. some of them were great ideas.

its like this:
u have a nice black suit and u wear it everywhere and u like it, but after some time the buttons come off and it has a few holes. so yeah u think its time fore a new suit, but this time u ant a whit tuxedo maybe with special buttons and a cool tie. well over months u hear nothing from the guys supposed to make your new tuxedo. u get a new tie here and there and they polish your shoes ones in a while but no tuxedo.
then finally u get a cal that its ready. u rush there and ….its a white dress instead of a whit tuxedo. they call it the eotm dress. it has special pearls that goes with it and looks great…but its a white dress and thats for girls…u tell the guy u wanted a tuxedo not a dress. so the wait starts again. u get some too small shoes here and there and then some random ties but no tuxedo still. finally a call about the store making big changes. u hear of new fancy buttons and nicer shoes and amazing ties and yes u hear that your order is almost ready. so u go and preview it. and …its a a pink dress with fairy wings that glows in the dark. something every fairy princess wants right?
all the girls in the store tell u, com on its beautiful u should try it!

get the point?

That analogy bordered on the nonsensical.

It’s more like you work at a newspaper and type everything on a typewriter. Then, one day, your employer takes your typewriter away and gives you a brand new laptop. Then you complain that you have to push a button to turn it on.

nope thats not how it is its not advancing is a complete different thing if they change the borderlands to a map that is event and ai driven.

Actually, the typewriter metaphor works—just replace “event and ai” with “electricity” or “software.”

What this really comes down to is that you’re scared of change. They’re implementing changes that will cause players to respond with new strategies, builds, and play-styles, and you’re terrified that you won’t be able to do exactly what you do in WvWvW (and have been doing for going on 3 years) on the new map.

Here’s the thing though… you are necessarily straw-manning the new map. You haven’t played it… nobody outside of ArenaNet has to my knowledge. You are looking at environmental factors and screaming “PVE RUN!” when… you’re still fighting other players. Adding new and interesting mechanics to a map isn’t a bad thing… unless you’re afraid you can’t adapt.

I’m looking forward to new and exciting ways to kill other players on a grand scale—you should too.

nope mr feud. im not scarred of change. i got no issues with changes. what i dont want is a wvw that is too controlled by ai, npce,pve events and weird jumping puzzles. it looks like eotm and eotm is an absolute joke from a wvw perspective! and like i said id have no issues if this map was first tested with the whole wvw community before it was made permanent bl map!
make it optional first and if its good and fun and i can still have great fights without ai runining it all, then yes im happy to accept it, but the way it is presented it simply screams pve/eotm/ 3rd party timer driven map!

It’s clear you didn’t watch the WvW map livestream events, or if you did, you’ve chosen to ignore lots of relevant details. The new map looks nothing like EotM – you’re not at constant risk of falling to your death; I’ve seen no jumping puzzles (I hate jumping puzzles but the air keep has platforms you merely walk on – no jumping skill required); and PvE elements have been included in every great RvR game to date. The people clamoring for a mob-less, flat WvW map have often been misguided GvG players who favor contrived, even-numbered fights that eliminate the excitement of unpredictability and the tactical use of terrain. No kitten thanks; I prefer my fights dynamic.

The new map has plenty of flat terrain to fight open field, away from NPCs and the ever-dreaded PvE events (which to me seem to clearly invite fights rather than discourage them). I do think there’s cause for some concern, but it isn’t your fabricated issues that bother me.

I exclusively WvW and, for me, the new map can’t come soon enough.

xev.9476:

It’s clear you didn’t watch the WvW map livestream events, or if you did, you’ve chosen to ignore lots of relevant details. The new map looks nothing like EotM – you’re not at constant risk of falling to your death; I’ve seen no jumping puzzles (I hate jumping puzzles but the air keep has platforms you merely walk on – no jumping skill required); and PvE elements have been included in every great RvR game to date. The people clamoring for a mob-less, flat WvW map have often been misguided GvG players who favor contrived, even-numbered fights that eliminate the excitement of unpredictability and the tactical use of terrain. No kitten thanks; I prefer my fights dynamic.

The new map has plenty of flat terrain to fight open field, away from NPCs and the ever-dreaded PvE events (which to me seem to clearly invite fights rather than discourage them). I do think there’s cause for some concern, but it isn’t your fabricated issues that bother me.

I exclusively WvW and, for me, the new map can’t come soon enough.

i have watched it and a lot of alarm bells went up when seeing events there. u know the event in the middle will give an outmanning zerg the upper hand over the whole map! u know the shrines give immunity to fire so u can walk over the fire in the lava area… well just saying so far it looks pretty bad. i have yet to see actual flat non ai infested area and i highly doubt there will be a lot of room for fights. i dont mind have ing mobs here and there, but having an entire map controlled mainly by npc and ai and then also a timer on events that take entire gates down….. sorry screams pve map to me= ill queue for eb only.
all i want is a longer testing phase for this map before it replaces the current maps.

yes i wanted a new map, but not one that is so complex and filled with weird events! it jut takes a lot wvw is about away and replaces it with pve

selan.8354:

xev.9476:

It’s clear you didn’t watch the WvW map livestream events, or if you did, you’ve chosen to ignore lots of relevant details. The new map looks nothing like EotM – you’re not at constant risk of falling to your death; I’ve seen no jumping puzzles (I hate jumping puzzles but the air keep has platforms you merely walk on – no jumping skill required); and PvE elements have been included in every great RvR game to date. The people clamoring for a mob-less, flat WvW map have often been misguided GvG players who favor contrived, even-numbered fights that eliminate the excitement of unpredictability and the tactical use of terrain. No kitten thanks; I prefer my fights dynamic.

The new map has plenty of flat terrain to fight open field, away from NPCs and the ever-dreaded PvE events (which to me seem to clearly invite fights rather than discourage them). I do think there’s cause for some concern, but it isn’t your fabricated issues that bother me.

I exclusively WvW and, for me, the new map can’t come soon enough.

i have watched it and a lot of alarm bells went up when seeing events there. u know the event in the middle will give an outmanning zerg the upper hand over the whole map! u know the shrines give immunity to fire so u can walk over the fire in the lava area… well just saying so far it looks pretty bad. i have yet to see actual flat non ai infested area and i highly doubt there will be a lot of room for fights. i dont mind have ing mobs here and there, but having an entire map controlled mainly by npc and ai and then also a timer on events that take entire gates down….. sorry screams pve map to me= ill queue for eb only.
all i want is a longer testing phase for this map before it replaces the current maps.

yes i wanted a new map, but not one that is so complex and filled with weird events! it jut takes a lot wvw is about away and replaces it with pve

the fire shrine isnt a pve event, its a pvp objective. Thats kind of the whole point.

when you are making a keep push in the fire area, you are going to want to have some groups taking the shrines. If you are trying to defend your keep, you will want to have some people trying to hold the shrines.

How well these PLAYERS do their jobs determines what you have to deal with. Keep in mind that they only get the big buff if they have all 3 shrines. AKA your server is failing at taking PVP objectives.

you see things like this already in organized seige servers. If you dont take certain key points, its a lot harder to attack/defend objectives due to getting smashed by seige in some far off location. (of course this only happens with servers who hold objectives and focus seige use)

And keep in mind, in WvW if the other server has substantially more players, that are more organized, you will always get smashed. Thats never going to change. It would be unfair if it did.