Guild Wars 2

krzygum.4028:

Random.4691:

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

sebradle.7034:

Standing back and pew pewing is my subjective definition of lame when I play my thief/assassin class I want to be gibbing and evading people. When I play my ranger I want to be standing back and pew pewing.

This is what you don’t get. The point of elite specs isn’t to give people already playing that profession a pile of all the goodies they’ve been wanting. It’s to make that profession appealing to people who weren’t previously interested. It’s supposed to encourage alts and keep people playing in the same way that new professions would, but with massively less development cost in animations and art assets. If the Sniper feels nothing like a Thief, that’s totally fine. If someone who previously only played Ranger now makes a Thief, then that’s a win for the devs.

What you don’t seem to be getting is your entire argument is subjective. Say exactly what you just said except insert ANY weapon or ANY class.

Example: If the Monk feels nothing like a Thief, that’s totally fine. If someone who previously only played Guardian now makes a Thief, then that’s a win for the devs.

Maybe there are players out there that want to play thief and are hoping for a weapon that will make them not so fragile while keeping their utilities, better defence less dmg.

I’ll point this out once again too, 1200 sniper that can stealth, evade, shadow step (multiple time) and every other get out of jail free card a thief has is completely and utterly broken. Yes lets give people an unkillable, uncatchable, 1200 range class because I’m sure that’s healthy for the game …….

However his assumptions may be close to correct. For exampla I can’t get into necromancer. I don’t like daggers, axe or staff on this class. I don’t like how his skills work, not my story. However, after Reaper reveal I’m more exctided for this spec than for revenant.

That part is fine, it seems he is insinuating this is why thieves should get Rifle. What I’m saying is it doesn’t give a valid argument for a Rifle over any other weapon, people like different things.

Random.4691:

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

sebradle.7034:

Standing back and pew pewing is my subjective definition of lame when I play my thief/assassin class I want to be gibbing and evading people. When I play my ranger I want to be standing back and pew pewing.

This is what you don’t get. The point of elite specs isn’t to give people already playing that profession a pile of all the goodies they’ve been wanting. It’s to make that profession appealing to people who weren’t previously interested. It’s supposed to encourage alts and keep people playing in the same way that new professions would, but with massively less development cost in animations and art assets. If the Sniper feels nothing like a Thief, that’s totally fine. If someone who previously only played Ranger now makes a Thief, then that’s a win for the devs.

What you don’t seem to be getting is your entire argument is subjective. Say exactly what you just said except insert ANY weapon or ANY class.

Example: If the Monk feels nothing like a Thief, that’s totally fine. If someone who previously only played Guardian now makes a Thief, then that’s a win for the devs.

Maybe there are players out there that want to play thief and are hoping for a weapon that will make them not so fragile while keeping their utilities, better defence less dmg.

I’ll point this out once again too, 1200 sniper that can stealth, evade, shadow step (multiple time) and every other get out of jail free card a thief has is completely and utterly broken. Yes lets give people an unkillable, uncatchable, 1200 range class because I’m sure that’s healthy for the game …….

I have been saying this for a while too, and I completely agree with random’s assessment.

Thing is, although few will admit it, everyone wants their class to be on top and OP. If thief got this, they would have too much. There is a difference btween getting “more”, and getting “different” Only few classes deserve to get “more” than what they already have. Thief is not one of them, as they already have super high dps for pve, a strong role in pvp meta, and are the alpha predators when it comes to wvw roaming and ganking.

additionally, why would anet give thief a 1200 range repeatable invisible backstab? (cuz lets face it, that’s what a sniper exactly is and what thief’s seem to want), when thief is supposed to be high risk high reward class? what’s high risk about a 1200 (or more) range invisible headshot with teleports?

Random.4691:

That part is fine, it seems he is insinuating this is why thieves should get Rifle. What I’m saying is it doesn’t give a valid argument for a Rifle over any other weapon, people like different things.

Maybe because as thief is now, another melee weapon is not going to change the thief much (if at all). Not without completely redoing the whole class (including core traitlines), which i don’t see happening.

The same could be said for Rifle, for a thief to be viable at 1200 range they would need to completely rework the class. Basically they would need to take away most things that make the class what it is now because of what’s been pointed out a few times now. 1200 range with everything they have now would be pretty much god mode.

Who says the rifle would be a 1200-range MH dagger?

I’ve mostly been arguing that Staff is a supremely lame choice for a class which is already drowning in superb melee options but which has butt for any sort of range. P/P is awful and Shortbow deals pants for damage despite its excellent utility.

Make it a 600-range medium-distance Power weapon, to compare to the Shortbow’s utility/Malice-centric nature. Make it a disruptive choice rather than a boom-headshot choice, somewhat like the Engineer’s rifle except actually good/not completely schizophrenic. The important thing is that in virtually all cases the rifle would be something we don’t already have, while in virtually no case is the staff something we don’t already have.

Nobody’s expecting it to stealth like C&D and hit like Backstab. Or at least nobody intelligent. But maybe hitting like non-Backstab dagger, without needing to dump every last point of initiative into Unload a’la P/P, with some interesting tricks to back it up would be all right?

Certainly be better than melee staff, anyways.

killing the dream~

also if thief does get rifle, expect it to lose its stealth skills (to be replaced by the elite mastery’s skills)

I think you’re giving the majority of people way to much credit. Most seem to be requesting a long range weapon, they have medium range, SB and Pistols so why do they need a third medium range option ? As far as what people expect, like I said I think you’re giving them way to much credit, I’m willing to bet most want to retain their functionality and get 1200 range and still be high dps. No risk, all reward if you will.

Keep in mind also that it won’t be so unfair thief getting rifle considering the fact that he won’t be able to backstab with that weapon so i don’t think it will be stealth based trait line.More like dmg as long as you keep the distance like ranger

Slapinator.4196:

Keep in mind also that it won’t be so unfair thief getting rifle considering the fact that he won’t be able to backstab with that weapon so i don’t think it will be stealth based trait line.More like dmg as long as you keep the distance like ranger

That is 1 stealth skill, it’s not the only one. Lets not for get all the distance they can create without stealth, and I’m assuming they will have weapon swap, so they could very well have BS for those cases where someone actually does manage to catch you.

Random.4691:

I think you’re giving the majority of people way to much credit. Most seem to be requesting a long range weapon, they have medium range, SB and Pistols so why do they need a third medium range option ? As far as what people expect, like I said I think you’re giving them way to much credit, I’m willing to bet most want to retain their functionality and get 1200 range and still be high dps. No risk, all reward if you will.

The Shortbow’s a mid-range utility option that can semi-do Malice damage, if you get good at landing Cluster Bombs properly.

The P/P set is an option for people who hate themselves, or who wish to replace their entire 1-5 skill bar with “_ _ Unload _ _” and still do less damage than Sword autoattack does.

People are hoping for a 1200 range option on rifle, and I admit it would be nice. I would not expect a 1200-range rifle to have stealth (no, they’re not going to ‘replace stealth entirely’ on the elite spec, either. Give up on that right now), nor would I expect a 1200-range weapon to have as much mobility/evasion as the Thief’s melee sets. It’d be nice if it had damage, but frankly we’ve got the example of Warrior rifle for what happens when ArenaNet tries to design a simple shoot-the-other guy gun set.

(Off-topic: I would adore a viable rifle Warrior build and in fact tried for the first six or so months of GW2 to make one, but by this point I’ve got less hope for Warr rifle being good than I do for P/P ever being not-actively-detrimental. Really, I just want one freaking class that uses the rifle in a manner not completely worthless.)

What they would actually do? I have no idea. The notion of replacing Steal with a ‘Mark’ skill – perhaps call the new spec Bountyhunter, so we can have all the Dragonhunter name kerfuffle fun again – and then having the rifle, perhaps, work with the Mark in interesting ways would be cool, though it’d lock out the Thief’s other weapon sets on Bountyhunters so I don’t expect that. But frankly? I’d still take even something as uninspired and lackluster as Warr rifle before I’d take melee staff.

Doesn’t the difficulty that anet has had with balancing the P/P set as our range dps option kind of kill the hope that rifle would be this god send of a damage option given to us at 1200 range?

People are still unable to detach the current profession skills from the elite ones. I would like to see ricochet come back and be on the rifle. Bullets that make one bleed, poison, torment. A point blank cone damage. Something cool but not a rip of of warrior or engineer rifle, along with the thieves existing pistol.

Rifle would have to live in the same space and compete against P/P if its a dps option. If its an utility option it would have to compete against shortbow. I was just saying that anet hasn’t had a track record of making P/P any better why would they give us something with the same dps at 1200 range?

arenta.2953:

killing the dream~

also if thief does get rifle, expect it to lose its stealth skills (to be replaced by the elite mastery’s skills)

Interesting, was that datamined as well?

Balancing P/P is actually really simple – make the autoattack faster. Something more akin to Ranger shortbow’s AA fire rate. It would still do garbage for power damage, which means the P/P set itself is generally junk as its big-damage skill is Power while its AA would be Malice, but the MH pistol by itself would no longer be doing essentially nothing with its autoattack. Sinister sets, or other Power/Malice hybrids, would still potentially get some use out of it, and P/D would actually be good in places other than Wuv.

And if you figure the rifle would be problematic to do well…then what, pray tell, would the staff do that, again, isn’t currently being done by S/*? I can think of a few different ways to take rifle that the Thief doesn’t currently do, or do well. I have yet to conceive of, or see someone else conceive of, something the staff does (other than ludicrous shadow-Mesmer nonsense or similar never-gonna-happen tomfoolery) that the sword doesn’t cover.

Thief sword is awesome, Thief MH pistol is butt. Why make the elite spec’s weapon selection compete with the sword and inevitably fail?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

arenta.2953:

killing the dream~

also if thief does get rifle, expect it to lose its stealth skills (to be replaced by the elite mastery’s skills)

Interesting, was that datamined as well?

sadly no

its concept art of GW2. from march 2010
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Horia_Dociu_Sniper_concept_art.jpg
this is the picture that made people initially believe thief was gettign rifle. back when it was SUPPOSED to get rifle.
but it got delayed, then game launched and they were out of time. since then nothing’s been heard of it

until HoT said new weapons.

which is why i’m still hoping its the rifle. because thief was SUPPOSED to get it, and if Anet hadn’t launched GW2 when it did, then its likely thief would have launched with rifle.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Balancing P/P is actually really simple – make the autoattack faster. Something more akin to Ranger shortbow’s AA fire rate. It would still do garbage for power damage, which means the P/P set itself is generally junk as its big-damage skill is Power while its AA would be Malice, but the MH pistol by itself would no longer be doing essentially nothing with its autoattack. Sinister sets, or other Power/Malice hybrids, would still potentially get some use out of it, and P/D would actually be good in places other than Wuv.

And if you figure the rifle would be problematic to do well…then what, pray tell, would the staff do that, again, isn’t currently being done by S/*? I can think of a few different ways to take rifle that the Thief doesn’t currently do, or do well. I have yet to conceive of, or see someone else conceive of, something the staff does (other than ludicrous shadow-Mesmer nonsense or similar never-gonna-happen tomfoolery) that the sword doesn’t cover.

Thief sword is awesome, Thief MH pistol is butt. Why make the elite spec’s weapon selection compete with the sword and inevitably fail?

Could give us a condition focused melee set that isnt spamming leaing death blossom like the direction they went with Dragonhunters.DD

sebradle.7034:

Doesn’t the difficulty that anet has had with balancing the P/P set as our range dps option kind of kill the hope that rifle would be this god send of a damage option given to us at 1200 range?

Oh, if anyone expects the rifle to be “god sent of a damage option” they are definitely naive. Range damage in this game takes a second place compared to melee, and there’s no reason why it should be different in this case either. Still, a 1200 range option has a value in itself.

At the same time, hoping that staff will make thief better at things they are already good with is even more naive.

Astralporing.1957:

sebradle.7034:

Doesn’t the difficulty that anet has had with balancing the P/P set as our range dps option kind of kill the hope that rifle would be this god send of a damage option given to us at 1200 range?

Oh, if anyone expects the rifle to be “god sent of a damage option” they are definitely naive. Range damage in this game takes a second place compared to melee, and there’s no reason why it should be different in this case either. Still, a 1200 range option has a value in itself.

At the same time, hoping that staff will make thief better at things they are already good with is even more naive.

But having 1200 range doesn’t mean the damage needs to be lower than melee. Staff ele in pve is still one of the highest dps you can have.

Laraley.7695:

Astralporing.1957:

sebradle.7034:

Doesn’t the difficulty that anet has had with balancing the P/P set as our range dps option kind of kill the hope that rifle would be this god send of a damage option given to us at 1200 range?

Oh, if anyone expects the rifle to be “god sent of a damage option” they are definitely naive. Range damage in this game takes a second place compared to melee, and there’s no reason why it should be different in this case either. Still, a 1200 range option has a value in itself.

At the same time, hoping that staff will make thief better at things they are already good with is even more naive.

But having 1200 range doesn’t mean the damage needs to be lower than melee. Staff ele in pve is still one of the highest dps you can have.

Nerfed LB ranger checking in. Anet is migrating towards a “everybody stack!” mentality. :|

I really hope we get rifle so i can finally use my hunter rifle skin since it would fit a thief more than a warrior or engi

CantiCooly.8271:

I really hope we get rifle so i can finally use my hunter rifle skin since it would fit a thief more than a warrior or engi

While I am very much in the pro thief-rifle camp: how exactly does a rifle not fit an engineer?

CantiCooly.8271:

I really hope we get rifle so i can finally use my hunter rifle skin since it would fit a thief more than a warrior or engi

I hope we get rifle so i can use my Predator skin (honestly the worst legendary to have made right now, so useless on warrior and engi)

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Make it a 600-range medium-distance Power weapon, to compare to the Shortbow’s utility/Malice-centric nature. Make it a disruptive choice rather than a boom-headshot choice, somewhat like the Engineer’s rifle except actually good/not completely schizophrenic. The important thing is that in virtually all cases the rifle would be something we don’t already have, while in virtually no case is the staff something we don’t already have.

Technically, staff could be disruptive somewhat medium ranged as well. Considering the length of a staff, it would be interesting to have some close/medium range that isn’t in the game at all yet with a melee oriented weapon.

Also a staff seems something that could potentially knock down or launches away which all are things a thief doesn’t have access to yet. It seems more disruptive in nature as main hand sword currently is. As well as some pole vaulting that you can control to use offensively over and enemy or something crazy like that. Or AoE cripple or CC.

Plus, it might be not the best offensive weapon, maybe it’s a more defensive or supportive weapon. Which might seem a little weird (lame?) for most thieves, but it’s definitely an option that is definitely not explored with most thieves.

The Monkey King Tonic has some staff animations in its transformation, so it’s not that far off either. (considering it’s a drop the Dry Top towards the jungle, maybe even more so)

I just would say, that while it might SEEM more lame than rifle (in your opinion anyway), it’s all in all just more judging the book by it’s cover. You’re only comparing your speculations for one weapon against your other speculations for the other weapon. Which in the end is nothing factual, and limited to your already biased view on either of the weapons.

After trying the Revenant staff earlier, I want melee staff for thieves even more now!

Can’t play until I get home from work, but the way I’ve heard it the Rev staff is incredibly weak. Absolutely pitiful damage and somewhat unimpressive healing, which is a shame for the game’s first ‘heal your friends with this!’ weapon.

Gotta say, that is intensely foreboding considering how hard people are pushing for melee weakstaff on Thief, too.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Can’t play until I get home from work, but the way I’ve heard it the Rev staff is incredibly weak. Absolutely pitiful damage and somewhat unimpressive healing, which is a shame for the game’s first ‘heal your friends with this!’ weapon.

That’s what beta’s are for….
The current performance of the revenant doesn’t mean a thing.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Can’t play until I get home from work, but the way I’ve heard it the Rev staff is incredibly weak. Absolutely pitiful damage and somewhat unimpressive healing, which is a shame for the game’s first ‘heal your friends with this!’ weapon.

Gotta say, that is intensely foreboding considering how hard people are pushing for melee weakstaff on Thief, too.

I don’t think you understand – we’re Beta testing it – the Revenant is far from the finished product. Calling the staff a ‘weakstaff’ because it’s a beta on a completely different class is a very tall order.

Agreed, beta is beta. That said, it’s also the only point of reference we have. I believe I saw someone refer to current Rev damage as ‘nomad Thief level’ in another thread. That doesn’t really seem like a thing we should be pushing for on actual Thieves, eh?

Chronomancer and Revenant Elite are getting shield, as Druid and Thief Elite.
Deal with it.

Well, I’ll rephrase just so we’re clear – based on the gameplay moves, and not the current numbers I want melee staff for Thief even more now.

Gern.2978:

CantiCooly.8271:

I really hope we get rifle so i can finally use my hunter rifle skin since it would fit a thief more than a warrior or engi

While I am very much in the pro thief-rifle camp: how exactly does a rifle not fit an engineer?

Well it doesn’t fit engineer because the auto attack fires from the hip, which is a pretty bad way to aim a precision firearm. Warrior it makes some sense though. Somone who isn’t an amazing archer might opt for a firearm, since they require less training to be effective with a firearm.

hazenvirus.8154:

Gern.2978:

CantiCooly.8271:

I really hope we get rifle so i can finally use my hunter rifle skin since it would fit a thief more than a warrior or engi

While I am very much in the pro thief-rifle camp: how exactly does a rifle not fit an engineer?

Well it doesn’t fit engineer because the auto attack fires from the hip, which is a pretty bad way to aim a precision firearm. Warrior it makes some sense though. Somone who isn’t an amazing archer might opt for a firearm, since they require less training to be effective with a firearm.

Don’t think of it as a rifle when Engineers are using it, it’s meant to be a shotgun, as the #3 skill can attest to.

penelopehannibal.8947:

After trying the Revenant staff earlier, I want melee staff for thieves even more now!

So do I!

I would like to see more quick attacks on the thief to show off their agility, and a leap or teleport. Maybe an AoE spin attack that applies confusion or daze to enemies, or grants allies quickness or speed or refills endurance.

Rev’s staff is more healing/defensive. I love that on the Rev, but it’s a bit slow for the thief, although the #3 skill I was kinda hoping the thief would get (or something like it). Same with #2 and #5 (but as a leap/TP instead of dash). You know what? Change the healing of the AA to a movement boon/condition with multiple targets, and replace #4 with an AoE confusion/daze spin attack, and I would love that on my thief.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Agreed, beta is beta. That said, it’s also the only point of reference we have. I believe I saw someone refer to current Rev damage as ‘nomad Thief level’ in another thread. That doesn’t really seem like a thing we should be pushing for on actual Thieves, eh?

Ehm. I don’t think there’s a “we” pushing anything. “We” do not make or control what ArenaNet is putting out. Its more speculating what ArenaNet is going to put in and is likely to be put in. I really don’t have a preference to rifle or staff. And even if ArenaNet is considering public forum opinions, then it’s way more likely they thought about both options long before this topic started and probably worked out most of whatever weapon they planned. I doubt they would flip their design concepts at this stage.

I just don’t get it, I really don’t.

Sword/* on the Thief is amazing. It deals damage, it has evasions out the wazoo, it has stuns and dazes and other control effects for days. I honestly consider the Thief’s sword sets, both of them, to be among the best weapon sets in the game for the general PvE content I find myself doing most of the time. The Dagger sets do crazy things in the PvP modes – I’ve seen videos of D/D Backstab Thieves doing things I honestly thought were impossible in Wuv, and D/P’s on par with everyone else’s melee even if it’s not as outright powerful as S/* or D/D, and also has nigh-unparalleled mobility. Hell, even P/D has a niche, albeit a narrow one, as a weird sort of condition-centric Backstab build with ridiculous kiting potential.

Why is everyone so falling-over-themselves eager to just throw that all away?

Every time I or anyone else points out that the Thief has top-class melee options and a whole lot of the in the game as it exists, we get shouted at and told “Well, all ArenaNet needs to do is be super-awesome creative and outside-the-box with the melee Staff and it’ll be SOH MAHCH BATTER than your stupid old-news Sword!”

…why is it impossible for them to be super-awesome creative with rifle, instead? Six of nine classes, on HoT’s release, will use staff, discluding Thief for the moment. Two of nine use the rifle – both do so poorly, and the Engineer’s ‘rifle’ is no such thing. There are excellent builds out there for MesStaff, Guardians and Necromancers both get good use out of their staff though neither build around it, and ElStaff is their friggin’ PvE metabuild.

You currently have two great options, two good options, one potential option, and one unknown option for making a cool Staff character. You currently have zero good and two bad options for making a cool Rifle character.

I would like a cool rifle character. I was giddy with anticipation for it prior to GW2’s release – I actually wrote several stories covering what was originally intended to be my main character – Ryka Bloodwitch, disgraced charr Assassin/markswoman – on the assumption that the Assassin, or its spiritual descendant, would get this awesome shoot-and-move mobile marksman build.

I have no Ryka Bloodwitch. I have a charr which was conceived and even named as a Warrior marksman, but then ArenaNet ensured that the Warrior’s rifle was a forgotten relic of a time when firearms were theoretically relevant in this game and eventually I had to give up the ghost and switch to swords instead.

For the love of friggin’ Melaggan, let me have a rifle character worth freaking playing. I really don’t care if people want an acrobatic martial artist for their Thieves. As cold as it sounds, they have acrobatic and agile melee sets already. The Rev is apparently really awesome for acrobatic, visually impressive animations, and the base Thief has an excellent selection of top-quality melee sets.

There is literally nothing available in this game for people who want to both A.) use rifles, and B.) be good. I would prefer to not have to wait another three years for the Thief to get its second elite spec, only for them to announce they’re doing Scepter instead.

Can we just…please, for the first time in the history of GW2, have a rifle spec that isn’t completely worthless?

While I don’t share your rifle passion, I can understand that you’d be disappointed when it turns out they don’t have a rifle (which seems likely). Even if so. I’m pretty sure ArenaNet don’t deem it impossible to create a creative rifle skillset for whichever profession if not thief. If anything, they seemed to have tried with shield for sure. Hopefully warhorn for elementalist if that speculation is true. So I wouldn’t lose your hope just yet. It just (sadly) might mean your ghost is a little further from resurrection than anticipated.

Personally, I’m more looking forward to a rework of the underwater weapons/EPs additions and such. Though im likely to be in a very small minority for that one.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Can we just…please, for the first time in the history of GW2, have a rifle spec that isn’t completely worthless?

Engineer Celestial Rifle, but I understand what you’re saying.

The Engineer’s rifle is neither good nor a rifle. It uses the rifle skin, but it’s a horrible mishmash of junk that has no idea what it wants to be or do. Three of five Engineer Rifle skills are gap-openers/control skills to help the thing keep its distance…then the autoattack is a weak Power attack and its big-damage skill is a point-blank Condition attack?

What. The. Actual. Gahkitten . Hell.

It’s a complete disgrace, and it’s also not a rifle. Now, it’s cool if the PvP guys have made the weapon class work on the character, but the Engineer rifle honestly feels, to me, like it’s more akin to what staff is for most everyone who uses staff – a collection of loosely related gimmicks tied together into a weapon which is described as “produces whatever we feel like because magic”, except in this case it’s not magic, it’s gadgets. That’s great for Engineers, which are a gadgety class, and I understand why the Engineer’s rifle is a whacky gadget-stick instead of a proper rifle…

But that doesn’t make it a rifle. Or good. Not when the big-punch skill on the gahkitten thing is completely 100% counter to every non-AA skill the thing has.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

The Engineer’s rifle is neither good nor a rifle. It uses the rifle skin, but it’s a horrible mishmash of junk that has no idea what it wants to be or do. Three of five Engineer Rifle skills are gap-openers/control skills to help the thing keep its distance…then the autoattack is a weak Power attack and its big-damage skill is a point-blank Condition attack?

What. The. Actual. Gahkitten . Hell.

It’s a complete disgrace, and it’s also not a rifle. Now, it’s cool if the PvP guys have made the weapon class work on the character, but the Engineer rifle honestly feels, to me, like it’s more akin to what staff is for most everyone who uses staff – a collection of loosely related gimmicks tied together into a weapon which is described as “produces whatever we feel like because magic”, except in this case it’s not magic, it’s gadgets. That’s great for Engineers, which are a gadgety class, and I understand why the Engineer’s rifle is a whacky gadget-stick instead of a proper rifle…

But that doesn’t make it a rifle. Or good. Not when the big-punch skill on the gahkitten thing is completely 100% counter to every non-AA skill the thing has.

We already have druid with staff, and revenant with melee staff. I think that with those two, we can be somewhat certain that thief isnt getting a staff, melee or otherwise.

Could be wrong. But I’d be money on it.

Rifle is only usable (barely) on two professions. And yet all signs point toward thief getting a staff, but where does that leave rifle?

It’s the most niche weapon in the game (considering it’s a two-hander). I would love to craft The Predator, but it’s an absolute joke to do so unless there’s going to be another profession to use it.

On Engi, you rarely see it (being in kits so often), and it’s largely a troll-burst spec weapon for Warriors.

::sadinthepants::

DevilLordLaser.8619:

The Engineer’s rifle is neither good nor a rifle. It uses the rifle skin, but it’s a horrible mishmash of junk that has no idea what it wants to be or do. Three of five Engineer Rifle skills are gap-openers/control skills to help the thing keep its distance…then the autoattack is a weak Power attack and its big-damage skill is a point-blank Condition attack?

What. The. Actual. Gahkitten . Hell.

It’s a complete disgrace, and it’s also not a rifle. Now, it’s cool if the PvP guys have made the weapon class work on the character, but the Engineer rifle honestly feels, to me, like it’s more akin to what staff is for most everyone who uses staff – a collection of loosely related gimmicks tied together into a weapon which is described as “produces whatever we feel like because magic”, except in this case it’s not magic, it’s gadgets. That’s great for Engineers, which are a gadgety class, and I understand why the Engineer’s rifle is a whacky gadget-stick instead of a proper rifle…

But that doesn’t make it a rifle. Or good. Not when the big-punch skill on the gahkitten thing is completely 100% counter to every non-AA skill the thing has.

You have eloquently summed up my feelings on the engineer rifle. You should post this there.

Morfedel.4165:

We already have druid with staff, and revenant with melee staff. I think that with those two, we can be somewhat certain that thief isnt getting a staff, melee or otherwise.

Could be wrong. But I’d be money on it.

Revenant staff is not their specialization. That like saying, we already have Warrior, Guardian, Engineer, Mesmer, with shield. I think it’s safe to say Revenant isn’t getting a shield.

Do you see the flaw in your logic here ?

Really at this point I’m personally beyond caring about speculations concerning specialization weapon sets. Just release the info already Anet, the hype train has derailed, let us plan our builds and comps.

Gern.2978:

hazenvirus.8154:

Gern.2978:

CantiCooly.8271:

I really hope we get rifle so i can finally use my hunter rifle skin since it would fit a thief more than a warrior or engi

While I am very much in the pro thief-rifle camp: how exactly does a rifle not fit an engineer?

Well it doesn’t fit engineer because the auto attack fires from the hip, which is a pretty bad way to aim a precision firearm. Warrior it makes some sense though. Somone who isn’t an amazing archer might opt for a firearm, since they require less training to be effective with a firearm.

Don’t think of it as a rifle when Engineers are using it, it’s meant to be a shotgun, as the #3 skill can attest to.

Which is precisely why The Hunter, which looks like a sniper rifle doesn’t fit at all. It is hard to think of it as a shotgun when it looks like a sniper rifle.

I absolutely hope to see the Thief- E Spec to become the Ascetic

Ascetics are simply thieves, that are in search for inner balance and becoming one with oneself. They are in search of salvation from their sins of their past as thieves, thats my they use Mantras/Meditations now to manipulate their Chakra Flow, which is the ascetis changed class mechanic, instead of Steal to allow the Ascetic to use this new kind of power source.

While Steal was nothing else but a Shadow Step Mechanic for quick engangign combats with the helpful effect of receiving a new skill from your enemy for a one time, the ascetic is alot more defensive and passive, than the Thief.
Thats what the thief is completely LACKING in, what is the reason, why the Thief has to rely itself so much on Stealth and Dodges.

The Ascetic will instead move over to Dodges and Blocks to perform deadly counterattacks as a completely new thief special gameplay mechanic, that so far the thief owns only with one single skill in underwater combat, the ninetail strike, which lets you counterattack after blocking an attack.

The Ascetic will put this gameplay to the next more fluid and quick level for land combat via the staff in melee combat as the staff is a defensive weapon, not an offensive weapon like a sword that is made to kill people.

So I envision the Ascetic wieldign a staff performing fast paced on Initiative Point usage based gameplay, whose skills will have alot of gameplay mechanics that allow the Ascetic either to dodge attacks while hitting foes at the same time, or to block attacks.

The Ascetic will gain with staff more access to boons, that make this Thief-E spec more tanky, so that you don#t have to rely yourself anymore so extremely much on stealth.
So boons like Protection, Stability and Resitance, while also receiving more access to effects that remove conditions from you, because the current only effective build that lets the thief have good condition removal is through stealth.

E-Specs are there to change the whole gameplay of the Main Professions, to give the player a compoletely different gameplay feeling.
The Ascetic woudl exactly do that, by makign the original Thief alot more tankier by giving them a defensive staff, that lets them deal dangerous damage through counterattacks, while being meanwhile very dodgy and defensive.
The Ascetics staff gameplay coudl be then described like turnign Thieves into scorpions!!
Why? because scorpions don’t waste their breath for a storm of attacks, they always wait for the perfect moment to land the one deadly attack
And thats the kind of gameplay that id love to see with a thief staff E-Spec via the Ascetic.
A high defensive thief, for whose you have to be cautious with for when they try to counterattack you as they wait simpyl for the right moment, instead of bustign out quick attacks non stop.

I see the Ascetic getting controll effects like knockdowns and launches with the staf, which is somethign that the thief also hasn#t get with any of his weapons.

SB, Sword, Daggers, Pistols they all offer no knockdowns or launches as CC options.
all what the thief has so far are only dazes has hard ccs, but nothign else.
I also see the Ascetic as a class, which taunts foes to force them to attack you and run into their counterattacks as part of their hard cc gameplay as that would perfectly fit to thek ind od counterattack scorpion like theme for that kind of playstyle to make your enemies attack you, if they don’t do it by themselves.

This would be the absolute best way to make taunt an awesome hard cc that is kind of useful for a player, because so far I see in it just garbage, because tell me a good reason for why you would want to make an enemy attack you, other than for tanking?? in a game that has no real tanking …

If classes receive a maximum of say 4-5 E-Specs, then I want the Thief to get these in this order: (from top down)

• Staff (Quarterstaff) (Ascetic) = high defensive/evasive hard cc/counter attack Acrobatics – E Spec
• Longbow (Rogue) = 1200 range fast paced support orientated mobility based Stealing – Critical Hits E Spec
• Torch (Saboteur) = Trap using boon stealing condition spreading Anti-Summoner Trickery – E Spec
• Whip/Chain Sicle (Infiltrator) = Deceitful debuffing position control midrange based stealthy Shadow Arts – E Spec
• Offhand Sword (Bonus)/ Mace (Swashbuckler) = Brue force burst damage dual weapon specialist Deadly Arts – E Spec

Thats what I kind off want to see for the future Agree with it or not, everyones free opinion :P but thats what I currently envision for the thieves as this would kind of give for every trait line a specific E-Spec and the staff woudl be more than obviously be the Acrobatics- E Spec – guaranteed

Random.4691:

Morfedel.4165:

We already our. have druid with staff, and revenant with melee staff. I think that with those two, we can be somewhat certain that thief isnt getting a staff, melee or otherwise.

Could be wrong. But I’d be money on it.

Revenant staff is not their specialization. That like saying, we already have Warrior, Guardian, Engineer, Mesmer, with shield. I think it’s safe to say Revenant isn’t getting a shield.

Do you see the flaw in your logic here ?

Nope.

My logic isn’t about specializations , it’s about new content coming out. That’s what my logic is based on.

But if I’m wrong that’s fine. I don’t care a whole lot.