What should i say as necromancer? Mesmer have much better access to torment, a mechanic that was essentially a necromancer elite in gw1 (see http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees).
The punishment play style necromancer (and mesmer) had in gw1 is non existent in gw2 for necros apart from the 3 aoe torment stacks get every 40 seconds in DS…
What should i say as necromancer? Mesmer have much better access to torment, a mechanic that was essentially a necromancer elite in gw1 (see http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees).
The punishment play style necromancer (and mesmer) had in gw1 is non existent in gw2 for necros apart from the 3 aoe torment stacks get every 40 seconds in DS…
Warriors? Distracting Strikes trait. Hammer + Mace = how many interrupts? This is without Perplexity BTW
What should i say as necromancer? Mesmer have much better access to torment, a mechanic that was essentially a necromancer elite in gw1 (see http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees).
The punishment play style necromancer (and mesmer) had in gw1 is non existent in gw2 for necros apart from the 3 aoe torment stacks get every 40 seconds in DS…
Warriors? Distracting Strikes trait. Hammer + Mace = how many interrupts? This is without Perplexity BTW
The problem we have now is.. Mesmers have sources for confusion but application is crap.
All those skills in the thread for other classes inflict INSTANT 4-5 stacks of confusion easy.
I dont think that melee interruptes are a more relaible way to inflict confusion then that what mesmer can do. And perplexity i wouldnt count as argument since mesmer can use them aswell (and have a lot of interruptes to make the runes worthwhile).
I looked at the link and you seriously posted corrupt boon and well of corruption as reliable way to inflict confusion? I wouldnt call a skill that needs retal on your traget for the confusion as reliable…
Sorry but apart from engineers i still dont see a class (excluding revenant ofc) that can put confusion on its target better then mesmer.
Edit: Also the reason why the mesmer confusion inflicting skills/traits seem rather weak, is the same reason why necromancers base fear durations are short. Because they both have alot skills/traits that inflict and enhance those conditions.
I think I answered the question. He feels that Specialization won’t help when he hasn’t seen or heard or played anything of them. That’s silly to me.
Specialications will just give you one new weapon (lolshield for a mesmer) and some utilities. They won’t change what’s wrong with some core professions unless they would rework them which will not happen. In other words, revenant is being designed with the experience gained from the design of failed core professions. What devs showed during the PoI was that every skill has a reason and was created with that mindset. Even autoattacks. Plus traits.
How do you know it won’t change the weakness of the profession when they’ve said some specializations would alter the core mechanics of a class? Now I’m not saying it will, I’m just asking you how you know it won’t.
In my opinion, all you’ve got is assumptions and theories, not fact. And you’re not even sure the Mesmer is only get a Shield. Every other class that we know of, (engie, Necro, Ranger and possibly Guardian) is getting 5 skills, just because you only saw a shield does not mean they aren’t getting something else.
Chronomancer is shown using Sword along with the Shield.
So that argument that they can only use one weapon, may not hold up.
Mesmers already have main hand sword.
I know that. But we were told Specializations get only 1 new weapon. They never said old weapons can’t still be used, and they never said that old weapons used won’t also get new skills for the specialization.
That Chronomancer’s sword skills may in fact be unique to the Chronomancer and not the Mesmer.
I don’t see it killing professions unless it is op. and we seen what they do to op professions not warrior Nerf it into the ground. If anything all the road ground target aoe makes staking skills a lot easier for bosses might stability for large groups. Where new bosses are becoming more dynamic existing bosses. Makes no sense to complain without seeing the implementation also the class specialization might balance it out. We should kinda expect a across the board benefit to all classes otherwise it is something not worth getting.
I also hope they make old professions skills and traits new and refreshing… I am bored out of my mind with almost all of them at this point. I hate the #1 skills of all of them at this point…
I know the devs have said they’re revisiting abilities in existing professions to spice them up with the new tech. So I have no concerns on that front.
But when this profession goes live it will kill all the others for me, because I’m not a fan of cooldown driven combat and prefer to freedom that a shared resource like revenant’s energy provides. Thieves have that too with initiative, but I’m more into magic-type professions. I almost cried a little when I read that originally it was guardians who had initiative.
Not that I think they would or should – because it could seriously upset a lot of existing players – but I wish they’d done one non-cooldown driven class per armour type from the start. A caster with revenant or thief mechanics would suit me much better. But revenant should suit me well enough.
I know the devs have said they’re revisiting abilities in existing professions to spice them up with the new tech. So I have no concerns on that front.
Where have they said that? This entire thread has been asking about that for over a week, and all we’ve got is that the they’ll ‘do their best’ to balance the older classes regardless of whether or not their older tech completely outmodes them.
Where have they said that? This entire thread has been asking about that for over a week, and all we’ve got is that the they’ll ‘do their best’ to balance the older classes regardless of whether or not their older tech completely outmodes them.
Mmm, my bad. It looks like it was just the author of the article ‘presuming’ they’d do that.
I can appreciate concern on this score but I think they’d be rather stupid not to do that. Class imbalance – especially in a game with a sizeable pvp community – is super bad for business.
This should allay people’s fears of being left behind if they do not specialize.
Well we have had 3 years to see what there balance changes/reworks to old classes are like and it isn’t really good enough. Maybe they should start showing us what they plan on doing to them.
This should allay people’s fears of being left behind if they do not specialize.
Well we have had 3 years to see what there balance changes/reworks to old classes are like and it isn’t really good enough. Maybe they should start showing us what they plan on doing to them.
My thoughts exactly. The gulf between some of the classes is quite severe and they’ve gone unchanged for years. I’m very concerned ANet will consider them a lost cause and focuse entirely on their specialization to fill the gap while at the same time ignoring that the well-off class’s specialization will no doubt create a new gulf between them.
This should allay people’s fears of being left behind if they do not specialize.
Well we have had 3 years to see what there balance changes/reworks to old classes are like and it isn’t really good enough. Maybe they should start showing us what they plan on doing to them.
My thoughts exactly. The gulf between some of the classes is quite severe and they’ve gone unchanged for years. I’m very concerned ANet will consider them a lost cause and focuse entirely on their specialization to fill the gap while at the same time ignoring that the well-off class’s specialization will no doubt create a new gulf between them.
I believe that’s the purpose of specializations in the first place, also because they are swappable OOC.
Take necro as example: we all know he lacks group support and his spec will probably fix that.
Wanna build for group support? Pick the spec and go. Going PvP? maybe vanilla necro is best, like in WvW.
Ofc this should not push them back from fixing existing broken/useless skill/traits, but that’s another story.
Based on the history of both ArenaNet’s development and the community so far, I fully expect that within a short time of HoT release there will be a consensus on each profession that either the specialization or the core profession is inferior to the other and not to be bothered with.
Look at the introduction of new skills and traits, and how quickly they were declared either worthy or useless.
Look at the small number of meta builds for the professions that we have now for each area of the game.
Yes, you can play other things. But I expect it won’t be long before you go to PvP and find that 90% Druids with only the occasional Ranger, or do a fractal and get 90% Rangers and only the occasional Druid. The combination of game design and community doesn’t seem to support a half dozen ways of playing each profession in any given game mode, and I haven’t seen any evidence that it will change.
I doubt Revenant will remain the profession of choice for everyone past the post launch honeymoon period, but fears about specializations eclipsing core classes or being considered useless are supported by the history of the game so far.
G… Go and do PvP and tell me there is one class you don’t see! Class balance is done really quite well. Sure there are meta builds, but that’s almost inevitable. Still I see lots of people running experimental or personal builds. Different classes are good at different things. Like Eles are great at on-point fighting. Thieves are great at interrupting points. Engis great at on-point defense. Guards are great at on-point defense. Wars are great at solo capping. Mesmers are great at interrupting. Rangers are great at solo capping and interrupting. Necros are great at on-point defense, and interrupting. There will always be some classes that are good at beating another class, but weak to a third class: Just like rock-scissor-paper; but that’s ok. With revenant it’ll take some time but eventually it will be balanced as well.
@Gibson. No, no and no. Idk what you play, but last time I played pvp I was ganked by a trap ranger. I have also seen very good power rangers, condi rangers, spirit rangers etc.
The only issue Anet should focus on is the zerker meta in pve. It’s been a big issue for pve with the whole stack and dps culture.
I still think the necro needs a lot of help with regard to defensive measures and a slight uptick in mobility. We bring nothing special to the game other than Gwen. We are not existent in pve scenarios and we are a minority In The meta pvp world. We can solo roam and do ok in small group wvw encounters but we suffer a lot do to a lack of mobility and the ability to mitigate focus fire. Essentially if a necro engaged he either wins or dies as he can not disengage or run. No other class suffers these disadvantages. In addition our condi application is not as good as some classes. All we really do well is strip boons. It’s such a dilapidated model compared to the upgrades and attention other classes have received. I still truly believe that the devs have no idea how to address the necros issues and do not interact with the necro community. Where was our day in the sun when we were supposed to get dedicated attention such as Rangers and ELEs received. And why should we have to rely on specialization to address our issues. Fix the base class.
@Gibson. No, no and no. Idk what you play, but last time I played pvp I was ganked by a trap ranger. I have also seen very good power rangers, condi rangers, spirit rangers etc.
It’s possible it’s just my level of play and who I get grouped with. Seems pretty consistently meta, with only the occasional outlier.
I know I leave the game for six months, come back to see what the community is saying about a given profession, and find not a whole lot has changed, and where it has, there seems to be a lot of consensus about where the change has gone.
Of course there are people who play outside the meta, and of course there are other viable builds. I tried to acknowledge that. But the game design and the community don’t seem to lean toward “many equally viable builds”.
This should allay people’s fears of being left behind if they do not specialize.
Well we have had 3 years to see what there balance changes/reworks to old classes are like and it isn’t really good enough. Maybe they should start showing us what they plan on doing to them.
My thoughts exactly. The gulf between some of the classes is quite severe and they’ve gone unchanged for years. I’m very concerned ANet will consider them a lost cause and focuse entirely on their specialization to fill the gap while at the same time ignoring that the well-off class’s specialization will no doubt create a new gulf between them.
I believe that’s the purpose of specializations in the first place, also because they are swappable OOC.
Take necro as example: we all know he lacks group support and his spec will probably fix that.
Wanna build for group support? Pick the spec and go. Going PvP? maybe vanilla necro is best, like in WvW.
Ofc this should not push them back from fixing existing broken/useless skill/traits, but that’s another story.
I was lead to believe the goal was to have 9 equally viable classes and 9 equally viable specializations. What’s the point of having 5 viable classes and 4 viable specializations?
Well, at least they don’t seem broken in PvP currently (with what they have in the demo), from what i saw in a few vids they were constantly getting rekt by a Necro player. If the Revs had more time to get familiar with the class, I’d say it would be pretty nicely balanced. Well that is until the melee-power-“I teleport all over the kittening place”-legend arrives.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
Yeah why should the spec be an answer to the necros problems? It shouldn’t. They need to address the necros core problems. Go to the necro forums. There are awesome solutions there and not one is asking for more damage
Yeah why should the spec be an answer to the necros problems? It shouldn’t. They need to address the necros core problems. Go to the necro forums. There are awesome solutions there and not one is asking for more damage
Break a stained glass window. Pick up the millions of pieces and re-assemble it.
Yeah why should the spec be an answer to the necros problems? It shouldn’t.
It shouldn’t be, and it probably isn’t. Specializations provide alternate ways to play a profession; they aren’t just upgrades, or “problem solvers” for their core profession.
Yeah why should the spec be an answer to the necros problems? It shouldn’t. They need to address the necros core problems. Go to the necro forums. There are awesome solutions there and not one is asking for more damage
Break a stained glass window. Pick up the millions of pieces and re-assemble it.
Make a new stained glass window.
Which do you think is easier?
Nice, i may use this as my signature with regard to necro and the lack of improvements since the inception of necro, only nerfs
This should allay people’s fears of being left behind if they do not specialize.
Well we have had 3 years to see what there balance changes/reworks to old classes are like and it isn’t really good enough. Maybe they should start showing us what they plan on doing to them.
My thoughts exactly. The gulf between some of the classes is quite severe and they’ve gone unchanged for years. I’m very concerned ANet will consider them a lost cause and focuse entirely on their specialization to fill the gap while at the same time ignoring that the well-off class’s specialization will no doubt create a new gulf between them.
I believe that’s the purpose of specializations in the first place, also because they are swappable OOC.
Take necro as example: we all know he lacks group support and his spec will probably fix that.
Wanna build for group support? Pick the spec and go. Going PvP? maybe vanilla necro is best, like in WvW.
Ofc this should not push them back from fixing existing broken/useless skill/traits, but that’s another story.
I was lead to believe the goal was to have 9 equally viable classes and 9 equally viable specializations. What’s the point of having 5 viable classes and 4 viable specializations?
Well everything is viable everywhere, good is another topic.
it would be nice but is hard to have everything good everywhere, nothing as of now is good everywhere, so specs are here to address weak spots. I expect that.
But hey, if they manage to give good new specs and make good all the base classes, hat down!
EDIT specs do not mean 1 build, also, so if necro spec fix them in pve i still expect some build options ;-)
