Guild Wars 2

Ozgar Heavyhammer.6701:

khani.4786:

Or I don’t know just have a disclaimer at the beginning of the story that you are experiencing events that occurred in the past much like we had in GW1. Just because we got Nightfall and you were a dervish, they didn’t change how the story progressed in the other campaigns and you could go back and do these things on your new class that was created much later in the timeline.

I would be fine with that honestly, or even a starting instance where Rytlock awakens you in the mist and sends you to the past to help with the fight against Zaitan. Something is better than nothing.

I read one post by someone who suggested that the story line be done as memories of a previous life and done as the profession the char was in that previous life. It meant that during each story instance your Revenant gets replace with a standard model for that profession and you have to use that profession’s skills instead of your own.

Pifil.5193:

So apparently revenants existed before Zhaitan died but simultaneously only came into being after he was killed, huh?

Sounds like Rytlock accidentally knocked over a bowl of wibbily wobbly, timey wimey stuff. That’ll be a pain to clean up.

I need a Doctor

Ozgar Heavyhammer.6701:

timmyf.1490:

How does any existing class learn to use weapons and skills? There are no trainers or mentors in this story. You just pick up weapons and use them. You get skill points from tons of random crap to unlock new abilities.

There’s very little in the way of a lore explanation of how we learn to be Warriors or Mesmers or Engineers, so I don’t see why anybody would expect anything different for Revenant.

Warriors and Mesmers have tons of GW1 lore and the GW2 is just a natural progression of those classes. Engineers are based on the progress in mechanical design so there isn’t a need for an explanation there.

But a Revenant stands apart from those classes because it is something new for Tyria, What did Rytlock encounter that changed him fundamentally like that? Plus Colin made a specific statement calling Rytlock the FIRST Revenant. Being called the first means that there was nothing before you, so to keep the timeline intact the devs would have to explain how the other Revenants came to be because it is something brand new for the game, and made to be important because an Iconic has switched classes to become one.

Anet wrote themselves into this corner, If they didn’t make a big deal of Rytlock becoming the first Revenant then i wouldn’t be pushing so hard for a lore answer, I could have accepted the idea that Revenants existed in the fight against Zaitan but weren’t recognized as such.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ritualist

“A living conduit to the Spirit world, the Ritualist spawns powerful Spirit allies that inflict harm on foes, and can channel restorative magic that heals and protects injured companions. "

“The Ritualists are one of the oldest known professions on Tyria.”

“Before magic, the Ritualists relied upon a power similar to magic, granted to them by their powerful ancestors whom maintained a connection to their descendants. Through their spirits, the Ritualists were able to practice magic, or something close to it.”

happy now?

Pifil.5193:

So apparently revenants existed before Zhaitan died but simultaneously only came into being after he was killed, huh?

Sounds like Rytlock accidentally knocked over a bowl of wibbily wobbly, timey wimey stuff. That’ll be a pain to clean up.

or, you know, they were around, you just couldn’t play them.

it’s like saying norn and asura didn’t exist in tyria until eye of the north. just because it wasn’t there for you to see doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

and for the hundreth time, “time traveling” in order to let players play stuff that happened before the campaign they started on is nothing new to the franchise (see: starting on nightfall and heading back to prophecies), and there was never nearly as much whining then as there is now.

It seems there are a lot of people who are confused as to the difference between starting zone and personal story. I think the OP confused the two. The Revenant will start in whichever starting zone belongs to the race they choose. I would imagine the personal story will have a little different timeline to it as well or a “flashback”. If they make us do a personal story to earn mastery points, I will definitely pick this profession to do it with.

I abhor the PS so much I deleted a ranger that was already in Cursed Shore for the PS because I wanted to reroll my Ranger to a different race. I imagine they will make the PS way better this time around for the bits they can change up and it may be enough to fix some of the issues with the story telling in the format.

Iason Evan.3806:

I would imagine the personal story will have a little different timeline to it as well or a “flashback”.

no it won’t. and the sooner you stop thinking that, the less disappointed you’ll be when you finally get to play HoT.

jesus, guys, you have freaking DEV CONFIRMATION that this kitten won’t happen and you keep insisting. the denial here is worse than the polearm thread (which ALSO got dev confirmation isn’t happening)… then again, i’m seeing some recurring faces…

I’ll be surprised if they give us any PS revamp. Not because I think it’s a bad idea, but because I think they didn’t allow for flexibility when they launched with the PS, and they want to get away from the “talking heads” style of story presentation. They’d have a ton of animation and voice actor changes to make. Granted an expansion does usually involve substantially new things, yet somehow I don’t think ANet wants to use the old PS format any more so they aren’t likely to invest the resources in it for the new profession.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Pifil.5193:

So apparently revenants existed before Zhaitan died but simultaneously only came into being after he was killed, huh?

Sounds like Rytlock accidentally knocked over a bowl of wibbily wobbly, timey wimey stuff. That’ll be a pain to clean up.

or, you know, they were around, you just couldn’t play them.

it’s like saying norn and asura didn’t exist in tyria until eye of the north. just because it wasn’t there for you to see doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

and for the hundreth time, “time traveling” in order to let players play stuff that happened before the campaign they started on is nothing new to the franchise (see: starting on nightfall and heading back to prophecies), and there was never nearly as much whining then as there is now.

Who’s whining? I was paraphrasing Doctor Who.

Personally, I don’t really see the problem here: this is an MMO, because of the nature of MMOs, I can go with Rytlock and Eir into the Ascalon Catacombs, then kill Zhaitan, go back with Rytlock and Eir into the Ascalon Catacombs again, then go help Scholar Brogun kill the Svanir Shaman for the bazillionth time.

Also, Rytlock is the first ever Revenant. That’s the problem people have, I think.

Edit: (From the previous page)

“And Rytlock is returning to the world as the First EVER Revenant"
-GW2 Livestream Pax South 2015, 35:44,
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/watch-the-replay-of-our-live-expansion-announcement-at-pax-south/

But, you know, wizards and the mists and wibbily wobbly, timey wimey stuff.

So here is my suggestion to fix all of this. HEAD CANNON.

Anet will probably never give us a solution to this for two reasons.

1. The cost to add extra cut scenes, explications, or story, is not worth the benefit of appeasing a few players who will notice this inconsistence (the cannon for this is based off of a single comment in a pre beta announcement).

2. By not providing an explanation in game those who are bothered by it can create whatever solution they want. If they are vague enough with the PS then your revenant’s back story can be what ever settles the continuity for you, be that time travel, playing memories, being revenant like but not a true revenant until reaching 80, or what ever else. It does not have to be in the game to be cannon or head cannon it just has to not be contradicted by the game.

If you are going to this picky about lore then you can’t play an MMO. How are you interacting with a player who already defeated Zhaitan if you yourself are on a mission to defeat him. How can you as a lvl 80 go back in the PS to help a friend. How can you run an alt. It is a game and you have to allow for some suspension of disbelief.

The expac will most probably get the same treatment that the campaigns in GW1 got. A msg stating that you are reliving old events. I don’t mind that and I know they won’t do anything to awesome to explain the lore of playable Revanents but I do understand other people’s argument. The main reason why this whole “living through past events” worked well for the campaigns was because they were that, stand alone campaigns. Each had its own story, its own starting zone. In fact each happened in a different timeline. If we’re to compare HoT to GW1 then compare it to Eye of the North. Imagine if they told you they’re adding Chronomancers to Eye of the North with the story that was shipped only saying that you’d have to start in Prophecies, Factions or Nightfall and then work your way to the Eye of the North story ? How could you explain story/lore wise that your new character is experience from the get go past events and forcing people into experiencing it to experience the expansion with the new profession. When they added new professions there was a whole story that allowed that profession to fit in. You need a stand alone campaign to do so and not an expansion.

Thornwolf.9721:

Some people care about the lore, unlike you i do . So if you wana make everyone happy; Just make an opening instance like you did with waking from the dream, and the other starting points and just have it go through a small instance which just introduces you to the class. Seriously; Its not that big of a thing , its just tells the story of how you got there . Sure other races would be there; But do you honestly think you would remember some random chaar who fought beside you ? Nah. I Think coming from the mists is better than just some generic beginning we have seen a crap ton .

Yes, some people care about lore. I am one of those people who care. But here’s the thing, Thorn. We don’t know all the lore about the Revenant. We don’t know what’s appropriate as per lore for them.

Edit: Please enjoy playing the defeat of Zhaitan with the profession specializations you unlock in HoT without any new starting zone or lore explanation.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i don’t know why i keep reading these posts with convoluted ways to add a story to the revenant’s introduction. you guys will be so disappointed.

even after a dev outright tells you that their experience will be the same as any other profession, you keep thinking of ridiculous extra fluff that is completely unecessary. professions have always been a mechanical thing in the story.

This too.

Pifil.5193:

So apparently revenants existed before Zhaitan died but simultaneously only came into being after he was killed, huh?

Sounds like Rytlock accidentally knocked over a bowl of wibbily wobbly, timey wimey stuff. That’ll be a pain to clean up.

So does this mean Rytlock has become a Time Lord?

RyuDragnier.9476:

Pifil.5193:

So apparently revenants existed before Zhaitan died but simultaneously only came into being after he was killed, huh?

Sounds like Rytlock accidentally knocked over a bowl of wibbily wobbly, timey wimey stuff. That’ll be a pain to clean up.

So does this mean Rytlock has become a Time Lord?

There is now an answer to the question Dr. Who….it’s Rytlock!

If this lore-breaking time conundrum really upsets people, can’t they just pretend that their character was not a Revenant until they reached the HoT content and that their character played through the pre-HoT content as their “prior profession” before switching to a Revenant?

What’s more this does not require ArenaNet to create new starting zones or personal story missions for people who desperately want their Revenant characters to be treated as a special snowflake.

Ozgar Heavyhammer.6701:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Professions do not have their own starting zones. A character’s starting zone is determined by the race that was selected.

Thank you for finally bringing some clarity on this subject. I am however very disappointed in this decision as it completely wrecks lore continuity, I had hoped the devs had an interesting way to introduce a new class without breaking story. It makes no sense for a Revenant to do the same story steps that all other classes did as that class didn’t exist till Rytlock came back from the mist.

Really dropped the ball on this Anet, really wish you took a page out of the Blizzard playbook here because even though GW2 claims to be a Living World WoW handles their lore and story progression better.

You must be a fan of Worgen.

The idea that WoW handles their lore better is absolutely laughable. This is said as a WoW lore enthusiast and as a guy who has played Warcraft 1-3, their expansion packs, and WoW since Vanilla beta: the Warcraft franchise is a terrible trainwreck of lore and story progression filled with more retcons than sense.

Consider that a blood elf and draenei can both start as a monk class – as introduced in the fourth expansion, Mists of Pandaria – but their starting zones still reflect the time of the second expansion, The Burning Crusade.

Genesis.8572:

The idea that WoW handles their lore better is absolutely laughable. This is said as a WoW lore enthusiast and as a guy who has played Warcraft 1-3, their expansion packs, and WoW since Vanilla beta: the Warcraft franchise is a terrible trainwreck of lore and story progression filled with more retcons than sense.

Consider that a blood elf and draenei can both start as a monk class – as introduced in the fourth expansion, Mists of Pandaria – but their starting zones still reflect the time of the second expansion, The Burning Crusade.

You’re talking about a game that’s been out for over a decade, and as you said, is now into its FOURTH expansion, not first.

Is it okay then for ANet and GW2 to just stick to the same basic formula of story hackery, instead of trying to learn from other games’ errors and mistakes and attempt to fix them?

I don’t think people are truly expecting some epic re-imagining of the profession creation system, BUT its not like Revenants were “always there, hidden among us” kind of deal, Rytlock post LS2 is LITERALLY the first according to the devs. At least with WoW, when each individual expansion was released, AT THE TIME they made sense more or less with the existing continuity. HoT isn’t even trying to jive with the current state of the game, and that’s poor planning.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Professions do not have their own starting zones. A character’s starting zone is determined by the race that was selected.

Wait… what? You’re introducing new profs in an expansion and they’re just supposed to play old content to get to 80? Why can’t they have a fast track zone or something?

This is starting to seem more and more like The Sims/EA style cash grab where you guys make lots of mini expansions. I’ll be rather sad if that’s the outcome of Anet after all these years.

Kaleban.9834:

You’re talking about a game that’s been out for over a decade, and as you said, is now into its FOURTH expansion, not first.

Is it okay then for ANet and GW2 to just stick to the same basic formula of story hackery, instead of trying to learn from other games’ errors and mistakes and attempt to fix them?

I don’t think people are truly expecting some epic re-imagining of the profession creation system, BUT its not like Revenants were “always there, hidden among us” kind of deal, Rytlock post LS2 is LITERALLY the first according to the devs. At least with WoW, when each individual expansion was released, AT THE TIME they made sense more or less with the existing continuity. HoT isn’t even trying to jive with the current state of the game, and that’s poor planning.

I don’t mind, because I also have enough sense to recognize the practical considerations behind the game itself. Here’s what I said earlier, if you look up just a few posts:

If this lore-breaking time conundrum really upsets people, can’t they just pretend that their character was not a Revenant until they reached the HoT content and that their character played through the pre-HoT content as their “prior profession” before switching to a Revenant?

What’s more this does not require ArenaNet to create new starting zones or personal story missions for people who desperately want their Revenant characters to be treated as a special snowflake.

So yes, Rytlock is indeed the first Revenant. If lore is important for you, roleplay it out as you see fit. Make your Revenant and then jump into the Mists of WvW and EotM to level up your character to 80. Then play through the Personal Story as reliving the memories of your prior profession.

TurtleofPower.5641:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Professions do not have their own starting zones. A character’s starting zone is determined by the race that was selected.

Wait… what? You’re introducing new profs that will start at the beginning and they’re just supposed to play old content to get to 80? Why can’t they have a fast track zone or something?

This is starting to seem more and more like The Sims/EA style cash grab where you guys make lots of mini expansions. I’ll be rather sad if that’s the outcome of Anet after all these years.

New players will likely level from 1 to 80. Veterans who play a lot of GW2 seem to be acquiring these Tombs of Knowledge and other level/exp boosters that are taking up space in their banks. You’ll be fine.

TurtleofPower.5641:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Professions do not have their own starting zones. A character’s starting zone is determined by the race that was selected.

Wait… what? You’re introducing new profs in an expansion and they’re just supposed to play old content to get to 80? Why can’t they have a fast track zone or something?

lolfasttracks.

you sound new to GW2.

Genesis.8572:

New players will likely level from 1 to 80. Veterans who play a lot of GW2 seem to be acquiring these Tombs of Knowledge and other level/exp boosters that are taking up space in their banks. You’ll be fine.

Yes but there’s no game content there. In GW1 expansions came with an area that was all about the background of new professions. It fast tracked you in leveling to get you to the end of leveling, but the nicer part was it made the new professions part of lore in fully playable, explorable way.

It’s really disappointing that the precedent for GW2 is now going to be … just drop anything in the game with barely a connection to anything else.

TurtleofPower.5641:

Yes but there’s no game content there. In GW1 expansions came with an area that was all about the background of new professions. It fast tracked you in leveling to get you to the end of leveling, but the nicer part was it made the new professions part of lore in fully playable, explorable way.

It’s really disappointing that the precedent for GW2 is now going to be … just drop anything in the game with barely a connection to anything else.

Back then, there was also only one race option, which simplified matters considerably due to the racial storylines of the Personal Story of GW2.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Iason Evan.3806:

I would imagine the personal story will have a little different timeline to it as well or a “flashback”.

no it won’t. and the sooner you stop thinking that, the less disappointed you’ll be when you finally get to play HoT.

jesus, guys, you have freaking DEV CONFIRMATION that this kitten won’t happen and you keep insisting. the denial here is worse than the polearm thread (which ALSO got dev confirmation isn’t happening)… then again, i’m seeing some recurring faces…

Yeah. You were right. There is not a personal story for the Rev. whatsoever I guess.

http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/2/18/8061219/guild-wars-2-profession-reveal-revenant-pc-mmo-arenanet

“While the revenant is very story-driven compared to other professions in the game, ArenaNet says it will not make class-specific story content for them.‘We want professions to have more story to them about why they exist and why they’ve come about,’ Peters says. ‘But one of the things we learned in the original Guild Wars 2 release is that when we gave people a bunch of story paths to go down, they only played one of them. It’s better for us to give players choices along the way but not have those choices make them go in a different direction and not play a thing we spent a lot of time building.’ "

Also, ease of the angst. Just say what you are going to say without being antagonizing. I was stating my opinion.

BrettM.9062:

Thornwolf.9721:

there have been other revenants , Razah was one(( technically)) as was Shiro ((technically)) both came back from the mists . So no its not the first time its happened; Rytlock is just the last one in a couple of centuries to have done it .

What about the norn Havroun? Can’t they cross into the Mists and return?

No one’s commented on this, and I kind of feel like it should have. Yes, the havrouns can open portals to the Mists, but it’s not the same kind of magic revenants are going to use. I believe I did the storyline where my norn went into the Mists with the havroun to fight some imbalance, but it was merely a parallel of the same map with a whitish filter over the landscape. I admit, I forget most of the rest of that storyline, but they don’t seem to walk in the Mists that much if they can avoid it.

Going into the mists and returning does not make you a revenant. A revenant uses the power and visages of the mists in particular ways.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Professions do not have their own starting zones. A character’s starting zone is determined by the race that was selected.

Holy kitten! Just mic dropped that mofo! Thank you so much, this speculation has been stupid.

Well, we are working in some little inn, carrying around kegs and kitten, while being able to wield holy flames and summon horrible undead aberrations. I guess we can be a before unseen wielder of long lost legendary powers from hell too. Personal story is kinda whack anyways, no offense.

Just comes down to this . Its a class to be played , Its for gameplay; Not for lore or story purposes . If they really cared about the story i doubt the pvp would be as good as it is , and the pvp would get raged on. In that regard , just play the game; Ignore the cutscenes and just make up your own story as you go along in your mind for your character . They have already made it apparent that the lore/living story/ personal story really dosent mean anything and is pointless to listen to . Most people who play the game don’t listen to it anyhow , so why care ? Reason im going against what i said now , is because i realize that arena-net is lazy when it comes to this sort of stuff . Hence why they took out the holy trinity and tried to “revolutionize” the whole aspect of mmo rpgs . But dont for one second assume this is original, Yes the races; The ideals and concepts might be original in their own ways. But they do hold to aspects of other games; Likewise , treat this like it is . Its more of an mmo fast paced action game than an rpg. Play it for the gameplay , and you will be fine; Play it for the storyline and you will be disappointed .

I leave this post for three days and this is what happens?

Ah well at least this post brought out some confirmation by a game designer on how they will handle Revenant in GW2HoT.