Guild Wars 2

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

Dexlmentia.7391:

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

they did in a POI but it was a PR control version of it. So they admitted its needed, but without admitting they were wrong.

Knighthonor.4061:

Dexlmentia.7391:

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

they did in a POI but it was a PR control version of it. So they admitted its needed, but without admitting they were wrong.

They didn’t say anything different in that POI than they did before launch. Your love for the trinity has blinded you to that fact.

Love? My love is snuggled next to me laughing right now.

The inevitability of events isn’t something one necessarily loves.

Vayne.8563:

Knighthonor.4061:

Dexlmentia.7391:

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

they did in a POI but it was a PR control version of it. So they admitted its needed, but without admitting they were wrong.

They didn’t say anything different in that POI than they did before launch. Your love for the trinity has blinded you to that fact.

Dexlmentia.7391:

Love? My love is snuggled next to me laughing right now.

The inevitability of events isn’t something one necessarily loves.

Vayne.8563:

Knighthonor.4061:

Dexlmentia.7391:

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

they did in a POI but it was a PR control version of it. So they admitted its needed, but without admitting they were wrong.

They didn’t say anything different in that POI than they did before launch. Your love for the trinity has blinded you to that fact.

You are going to be deeply disappointed.

Agreed honestly. The current way the game works is basically like this:

Every can do anything. Everything is about YOU. All fights are individual.

Which removes the whole ‘team’ aspect. Everyone does damage. Everyone does support. Everyone heals.

It becomes a solo game almost. The other players are there to make the content easier (which it is now) but otherwise, they are pointless.

The other problem is the game is easier than most MMOs because instead of being Tank and Spank which requires:

Tank with high defense and health to tank;
Healer to heal Tank to keep him alive;
DPS to wipe off Health
Support to Buff/Debuff

In GW2 it’s basically Dodge And Spank:

Get hit, it’s over in one shot. Therefore you don’t need a Tank (The premise of GW2 is never getting hit), you don’t need a healer (the premise of GW2 is never getting hit, plus everyone has a self heal on low CD) and you never need Buff/Debuff because everyone can do it. All you do is damage.

Which leads into…

Zerker meta. Why waste time building defense, health, healing, etc. when none of that matters since the whole point of every fight is to never ever be hit. You want pure damage. Always.

Which is why hard content is going to be hard to make for this game. The entire design around the game (never take damage) makes it so it’s always going to be easy.

I don’t like trinity because it looks ridiculous.

One guy keeps 20 lizard soldiers on him while 3 other guys slash them/shoot them/bomb them safely and one guy keep healing to keep that one guy alive.

It looks stupid visually. One of the lizard soldiers should probably attack the dps/healer to end the battle faster.

The failure of those I love to achieve their full potential is the only thing that really disappoints me at this stage in my life.

If I’m wrong about a game, I’ll get over it, but the current betas are a tell-tale sign, unless they drastically shift course before the launch of HoT.

Vayne.8563:

Dexlmentia.7391:

Love? My love is snuggled next to me laughing right now.

The inevitability of events isn’t something one necessarily loves.

Vayne.8563:

Knighthonor.4061:

Dexlmentia.7391:

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

they did in a POI but it was a PR control version of it. So they admitted its needed, but without admitting they were wrong.

They didn’t say anything different in that POI than they did before launch. Your love for the trinity has blinded you to that fact.

You are going to be deeply disappointed.

runeblade.7514:

I don’t like trinity because it looks ridiculous.

One guy keeps 20 lizard soldiers on him while 3 other guys slash them/shoot them/bomb them safely and one guy keep healing to keep that one guy alive.

It looks stupid visually. One of the lizard soldiers should probably attack the dps/healer to end the battle faster.

I agree it does look stupid and when you simplify it like that playing it is stupid.

Problem is, we’ve done the other option (no trinity) and for some people, it’s just as bad only in the other direction.

So what to do?

Healing in particular is useless, with no incentive for anyone to spec with regard to healing, but we can clearly see tiny steps in that direction with the new specializations.

Azumi.9572:

Agreed honestly. The current way the game works is basically like this:

Every can do anything. Everything is about YOU. All fights are individual.

Which removes the whole ‘team’ aspect. Everyone does damage. Everyone does support. Everyone heals.

It becomes a solo game almost. The other players are there to make the content easier (which it is now) but otherwise, they are pointless.

The other problem is the game is easier than most MMOs because instead of being Tank and Spank which requires:

Tank with high defense and health to tank;
Healer to heal Tank to keep him alive;
DPS to wipe off Health
Support to Buff/Debuff

In GW2 it’s basically Dodge And Spank:

Get hit, it’s over in one shot. Therefore you don’t need a Tank (The premise of GW2 is never getting hit), you don’t need a healer (the premise of GW2 is never getting hit, plus everyone has a self heal on low CD) and you never need Buff/Debuff because everyone can do it. All you do is damage.

Which leads into…

Zerker meta. Why waste time building defense, health, healing, etc. when none of that matters since the whole point of every fight is to never ever be hit. You want pure damage. Always.

Which is why hard content is going to be hard to make for this game. The entire design around the game (never take damage) makes it so it’s always going to be easy.

Azumi.9572:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t like trinity because it looks ridiculous.

One guy keeps 20 lizard soldiers on him while 3 other guys slash them/shoot them/bomb them safely and one guy keep healing to keep that one guy alive.

It looks stupid visually. One of the lizard soldiers should probably attack the dps/healer to end the battle faster.

I agree it does look stupid and when you simplify it like that playing it is stupid.

Problem is, we’ve done the other option (no trinity) and for some people, it’s just as bad only in the other direction.

So what to do?

Make corner stacking not a viable/optimal option when clearing out trash mobs. If players get stronger when stacked, so do mobs. Done.

No one ever stack for bosses, and because of that it looks visually better.

Azumi.9572:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t like trinity because it looks ridiculous.

One guy keeps 20 lizard soldiers on him while 3 other guys slash them/shoot them/bomb them safely and one guy keep healing to keep that one guy alive.

It looks stupid visually. One of the lizard soldiers should probably attack the dps/healer to end the battle faster.

I agree it does look stupid and when you simplify it like that playing it is stupid.

Problem is, we’ve done the other option (no trinity) and for some people, it’s just as bad only in the other direction.

So what to do?

You leave it. Because there are dozens of trinity games, and one without it. Let’s not ruin this one game for those of us who don’t like the trinity (and from forum threads about it, we know there are plenty out there).

I’m not for or against the trinity, but I feel like people don’t consider how bad the “everyone can do everything” attitude really is. I always cringe when I read someone post about how bad the trinity is, yet rave about being mesmer #1,576 with whatever build they got off metabattle.com.

standard response 1: We have plenty of build snobbery without trinity considerations

standard response 2 Why must all MMO’s have the same core class interaction?

wayneericgouin.9371:

I’m not for or against the trinity, but I feel like people don’t consider how bad the “everyone can do everything” attitude really is. I always cringe when I read someone post about how bad the trinity is, yet rave about being mesmer #1,576 with whatever build they got off metabattle.com.

My warrior can’t remove boons. My mesmer can’t stack 25 might. My Ranger can’t send icebow. My Guardian can’t cripple. How come I can’t do everything in a game where everyone says everyone can do everything.

Don’t introduce Trinity, but some changes are needed I think.

To me it is very boring that all the game content is best done in Berserker gear.

Sometimes I spend some time looking into traits and build for a support build and maybe that would be fun to change things up a bit. Try something new. All the gear, traits etc exists to do it, except game content.
Where would I play it? If I try dungeon I will be kicked. All world PVE/Living Story can be done in Berserker gear. Shadow Behemoth… yeah that would really help!

I think the games needs to be rebalanced so that it would be very difficult to play any content solo in Berserker gear. Most mobs today only attack once every 10s or so, to make sure you can doge most of the attacks. I think we should keep these, but also to add some constant damage in between.

That way you could get a support friend and the two of you team up, one DPS with a little support, maybe a Celestial build, the other could go Berserker.

A dungeon group could be 1 support + 4 DPS. Not trinity but at least some more opportunity to play some other builds once in while.

portedGoblin.7413:

Don’t introduce Trinity, but some changes are needed I think.

To me it is very boring that all the game content is best done in Berserker gear.

Sometimes I spend some time looking into traits and build for a support build and maybe that would be fun to change things up a bit. Try something new. All the gear, traits etc exists to do it, except game content.
Where would I play it? If I try dungeon I will be kicked. All world PVE/Living Story can be done in Berserker gear. Shadow Behemoth… yeah that would really help!

I think the games needs to be rebalanced so that it would be very difficult to play any content solo in Berserker gear. Most mobs today only attack once every 10s or so, to make sure you can doge most of the attacks. I think we should keep these, but also to add some constant damage in between.

That way you could get a support friend and the two of you team up, one DPS with a little support, maybe a Celestial build, the other could go Berserker.

A dungeon group could be 1 support + 4 DPS. Not trinity but at least some more opportunity to play some other builds once in while.

There is no point. Again, the game is based around being solo. One member building a ‘support’ build isn’t going to have any affect on his or her teammates.

Zerker isn’t the Meta for no reason. Zerker is the Meta because the game DEMANDS it.

Everything is damage. Kill as quick as possible. For this you want damage. Zerker is simply the top dog for this.

The game becomes significantly more boring when you roll a non-Zerker team because everything takes longer.

Instead of doing 8k bad crits or 11k good crits, you’re doing 1k bad crits and 2k good crits.

All of a sudden a fight that is generally 2 minutes is now 10 minutes.

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

Because the trinity is silly and unnecessary.

Hard trinity is not going to appear. It is that simple. Endlessly wailing about it will not change anything.

Azumi.9572:

portedGoblin.7413:

Don’t introduce Trinity, but some changes are needed I think.

To me it is very boring that all the game content is best done in Berserker gear.

Sometimes I spend some time looking into traits and build for a support build and maybe that would be fun to change things up a bit. Try something new. All the gear, traits etc exists to do it, except game content.
Where would I play it? If I try dungeon I will be kicked. All world PVE/Living Story can be done in Berserker gear. Shadow Behemoth… yeah that would really help!

I think the games needs to be rebalanced so that it would be very difficult to play any content solo in Berserker gear. Most mobs today only attack once every 10s or so, to make sure you can doge most of the attacks. I think we should keep these, but also to add some constant damage in between.

That way you could get a support friend and the two of you team up, one DPS with a little support, maybe a Celestial build, the other could go Berserker.

A dungeon group could be 1 support + 4 DPS. Not trinity but at least some more opportunity to play some other builds once in while.

There is no point. Again, the game is based around being solo. One member building a ‘support’ build isn’t going to have any affect on his or her teammates.

Zerker isn’t the Meta for no reason. Zerker is the Meta because the game DEMANDS it.

Everything is damage. Kill as quick as possible. For this you want damage. Zerker is simply the top dog for this.

The game becomes significantly more boring when you roll a non-Zerker team because everything takes longer.

Instead of doing 8k bad crits or 11k good crits, you’re doing 1k bad crits and 2k good crits.

All of a sudden a fight that is generally 2 minutes is now 10 minutes.

Not if they die due to unavoidable damage. That was my point. Then the dungeon would be completed faster by brining a support to keep the Zerkers alive.

Endlessly wailing… Hmm.

http://i.imgur.com/ZmLq9HA.jpg

Yargesh.4965:

Hard trinity is not going to appear. It is that simple. Endlessly wailing about it will not change anything.

Dexlmentia.7391:

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

Why don’t traditional players simply admit that they just prefer Trinity? Why don’t they admit that they aren’t ready to accept that it’s never been an essential requirement to good gameplay. This substantive move in GW2 away from the Trinity clearly demonstrates that it was a mechanic of convenience, not necessity.

Trinity can be fun. However, it’s not the only way to handle challenging combat.

portedGoblin.7413:

Azumi.9572:

portedGoblin.7413:

Don’t introduce Trinity, but some changes are needed I think.

To me it is very boring that all the game content is best done in Berserker gear.

Sometimes I spend some time looking into traits and build for a support build and maybe that would be fun to change things up a bit. Try something new. All the gear, traits etc exists to do it, except game content.
Where would I play it? If I try dungeon I will be kicked. All world PVE/Living Story can be done in Berserker gear. Shadow Behemoth… yeah that would really help!

I think the games needs to be rebalanced so that it would be very difficult to play any content solo in Berserker gear. Most mobs today only attack once every 10s or so, to make sure you can doge most of the attacks. I think we should keep these, but also to add some constant damage in between.

That way you could get a support friend and the two of you team up, one DPS with a little support, maybe a Celestial build, the other could go Berserker.

A dungeon group could be 1 support + 4 DPS. Not trinity but at least some more opportunity to play some other builds once in while.

There is no point. Again, the game is based around being solo. One member building a ‘support’ build isn’t going to have any affect on his or her teammates.

Zerker isn’t the Meta for no reason. Zerker is the Meta because the game DEMANDS it.

Everything is damage. Kill as quick as possible. For this you want damage. Zerker is simply the top dog for this.

The game becomes significantly more boring when you roll a non-Zerker team because everything takes longer.

Instead of doing 8k bad crits or 11k good crits, you’re doing 1k bad crits and 2k good crits.

All of a sudden a fight that is generally 2 minutes is now 10 minutes.

Not if they die due to unavoidable damage. That was my point. Then the dungeon would be completed faster by brining a support to keep the Zerkers alive.

And then players spend more time kicking people who don’t read the LFG because they didn’t see the need support line.

ANet doesn’t want to force groups to have to wait for players of a certain build to come along. ANet doesn’t mind if players choose to wait for players of a certain build of their own choice. Which is what happens now.

I don’t prefer the Trinity, but I do prefer variety. I think most are missing my essential point, which is to say, Anet is clearly moving in the direction of Trinity-like play as evidenced by the recent betas.

When I said, “Trinity is an essential part of gaming,” people automatically assumed I was talking about a WoW like scenario. Roles or some variation thereof are indeed essential to variety. Simple gear stats don’t cut it. Try role-playing like a dedicated healer in Cleric’s gear or any other similar stat set and see how well received you are in a dungeon or fractal.

I main an ele and am perfectly happy tossing up big crits and nothing more. The game, however, has to evolve to sustain itself.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Dexlmentia.7391:

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

Why don’t traditional players simply admit that they just prefer Trinity? Why don’t they admit that they aren’t ready to accept that it’s never been an essential requirement to good gameplay. This substantive move in GW2 away from the Trinity clearly demonstrates that it was a mechanic of convenience, not necessity.

First off, anet has nothing against the trinity. What they have always said is they want every class to be able to play multiple roles. You can have dps tank and support, just each class can do it and differently. That’s how they set it up and how it’s always been

Vayne.8563:

I’ll respond as I did on reddit:

If I never saw another game again with the trinity, it would be too soon. Just imagine how much fun Lord of the Rings would have been if all foes only attacked Boromir, while Gandalf stayed back and healed him and the hobbits, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli all dealt damage in relative safety.
You may believe, truly believe, that the trinity makes for a good game. But it’s contrived to the point where it removes everything that makes role-playing games great.

So much this

I personally hate the trinity system mostly because it really simplifies game mechanics. Encounters can be specifically tailored to the trinity.

It seems to me that Anet, with raids, are bringing back a bit of the trinity system. They clearly stated that some encounters are going to need a tanky person, some encounters will need some healers, some encounters everyone will need to be a bit more defensive; some people will have to chage up their traits to pass things. The great thing about GW2 system is that it will allow for a much more creative raid mechanic that may actually take some thinking and require people to get better at more than one aspect of their class.

This sounds exciting, and much more fun then the dull trinity system, if they do it right.

From what I’ve been experiencing in the verdant brink they’re being in more damage on mobs, and more CC, not to mention some that move more during encounters, or take less damage from certain quarters. All these things are going to make current zerker harder to pull off.

I’m actually looking forward to more mobs with break bar too that are tanky until it’s broken.

Also, murder shroom swarms. /thread

Arenet should have create a soft trinity like they claimed.

Tanks, DPS and support roles shoud exist, but …
- Tanks are just a bit more tanky than non-tanks.
- DPS deal just a bit more damage than non-DPS.
- Supports provide healing and boons a bit just more than non-Supports.

And every classes can do every roles.
If a party cannot find a support, a DPS switch to this role or 3-4 DPS change one damage skill for a support one.

What people want is more coordination and to be considered as a fat tank guy, a nice guy who helps others, or a killing machine. It is not a problem if the border between those roles is very thin, what is important is to be categorized because most people love that.

Azumi.9572:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t like trinity because it looks ridiculous.

One guy keeps 20 lizard soldiers on him while 3 other guys slash them/shoot them/bomb them safely and one guy keep healing to keep that one guy alive.

It looks stupid visually. One of the lizard soldiers should probably attack the dps/healer to end the battle faster.

I agree it does look stupid and when you simplify it like that playing it is stupid.

Problem is, we’ve done the other option (no trinity) and for some people, it’s just as bad only in the other direction.

So what to do?

Create different games for different people.

I wouldn’t wont to see the trinity in gw2 because it has no place here but in saying that the current setup is not working correctly. most skills in this game are copy pasted to the next class with a new thumb nail pic.

runeblade.7514:

… One of the lizard soldiers should probably attack the dps/healer to end the battle faster.

It happens (e.g FFXIV). A (bad) healer (if overheals), draws more aggro than any tank can do.

Vayne.8563:

I’ll respond as I did on reddit:

If I never saw another game again with the trinity, it would be too soon. Just imagine how much fun Lord of the Rings would have been if all foes only attacked Boromir, while Gandalf stayed back and healed him and the hobbits, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli all dealt damage in relative safety.
You may believe, truly believe, that the trinity makes for a good game. But it’s contrived to the point where it removes everything that makes role-playing games great.

I don’t usually reply on general discussion forums because I don’t have time reading through 500 pages, but your reply is so totally wrong. It clearly shows that you have not played any serious MMO in it’s heyday if you think that healing the tank is the only tactic needed.

Maybe you have the impression that MMOs were always like how WoW or LOTRO is today, where they made everything so facerolling easy, all you need is a tank to run through pull the whole instance and stand in a corner AoE everything down…

Trinity, or better, roles is what makes a role playing game great. In serious MMOs for lets say a 12 man raid, you needed 1 tank, 1 off tank, 1 healer for the group, 1 healer for just the tanks, 2 support classes (1 buffer 1 debuffer), 2 ranged dps and 4 melee dps. Everyone of course needs to know exactly what he’s doing or the whole group will wipe because of 1 person. This is what makes a game great. It gives you the actual satisfaction that you acomplished something, and not just facerolled another instance.

What we have at the moment on GW2 is not actual content. 99% of the instances are like: Skip 80% of the mobs, and the ones that can’t be skipped, you pull to a corner and AoE them down. It requires zero skill, zero effort and zero team co-ordination.

Atm GW2 is basically a game that requires no tactic or thinking, and all you have to do is just barely know the current meta. If you do know it, you can faceroll every single instance or encounter while being semi-afk playing with 1 hand. If you want this to continue because you’re too lazy actually playing a challenging game, that’s fine, but please don’t say trinity is what makes a role playing boring…

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Trinity, or better, roles is what makes a role playing game great.

The ‘role’ you are talking about is combat role, but the ‘role’ in ‘roleplaying’ comes from the ‘role’ your character has in the world and which you as a player get to experience or, in the case of more openended roleplaying games, you as a player get to decide. In that sense the ‘role’ of ‘roleplaying’ is closer to a ‘role’ in a stage performance.

Edit: Besides, you forgot to add: roles is what makes a role playing game great to me.

What we have at the moment on GW2 is not actual content. 99% of the instances are like: Skip 80% of the mobs, and the ones that can’t be skipped, you pull to a corner and AoE them down. It requires zero skill, zero effort and zero team co-ordination.

Atm GW2 is basically a game that requires no tactic or thinking, and all you have to do is just barely know the current meta. If you do know it, you can faceroll every single instance or encounter while being semi-afk playing with 1 hand. If you want this to continue because you’re too lazy actually playing a challenging game, that’s fine, but please don’t say trinity is what makes a role playing boring…

The problems you describe are problems of execution of the system, not problems of the system itself.

Dexlmentia.7391:

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

Trinity is essential part of gaming? What did I just read? Then explain to me please how very few worth talking about role playing games have any kind of trinity in them?

At this point I fear people will complain about the missing trinity so much, that Arenanet will, at some point, introduce it to the game – and that will be the point GW2 will fail… hard.

Combat with hard trinity involved is predictable and simply boring. The way it is now – with different roles and everyone being able to fill the role they want – is good. It depends much more on people keeping an eye on the whole situation, rather than on health bars and cooldowns.

It sure needs some tweaks to get away from the zerker meta, but trinity is not the solution.

im up for trinity since day one !! the combat is shallow now

Dexlmentia.7391:

Anet, why don’t you simply admit the Trinity is an essential part of gaming beyond the zergs we’ve had for three long years?

This incremental move toward roles, clearly demonstrated in the current and previous beta events, is tiresome.

And this doesn’t make much sense at all since it’s talking about two different subjects.

Them adding in the trinity wouldn’t solve the zerg problem in open world areas and events at all, because zergs simply happen when a large amount of players are in an area trying to do the same thing. They’ll just blob up and start tagging and killing as many things as the possibly can. The only thing adding the trinity would change in this situation is having the healers flood the forums with QQ posts since they can’t tag anything.

And until we see just how they worked the boss fights for the new raids, there is no point in whining to the dev about adding the trinity into them. Unless someone has already played through them, that argument has no legs to stand on at this time.

My main problem is that support is not visible. Support is 90% Utility Skill usage and not Skilltree or equip bound. You can play the 0815 zerker Warrior but when you use banner and shouts in a “team” you bring the same Skills and effects than a full support tanky warrior but with much less damage.
For a bigger impact nearly every tree must have specific skills or must have a big scaling. Banner maybe can increase in effect for every other banner placed and you run 3-4 banners at the same time. Hell maybe make the banner for a banner warrior a suitable weapon like the engi with his kits.

The current meta is choose zerker and the skilltrees with the best %damage increase most of the time. Utility Skills seals for soloplay and the most common Shouts and banner for a instance.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Trinity, or better, roles is what makes a role playing game great.

The role in *role*play doesn’t refer to combat roles as you’re implying.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

In serious MMOs for lets say a 12 man raid, you needed 1 tank, 1 off tank, 1 healer for the group, 1 healer for just the tanks, 2 support classes (1 buffer 1 debuffer), 2 ranged dps and 4 melee dps. Everyone of course needs to know exactly what he’s doing or the whole group will wipe because of 1 person. This is what makes a game great. It gives you the actual satisfaction that you acomplished something, and not just facerolled another instance.

Well, firstly what you’ve described there isn’t the Trinity, since you’ve described 4 basic roles.

If everyone is focused on doing their own thing, how is that any different to playing solo if you don’t have to consider what your team-mates are doing? How is the group automatically failing because of one person ‘great’? After all, in GW2 if someone falls I can always hold the boss off long enough with Immobilize for my fallen ally to be rezzed because I’ve put that into my build. How is that not teamwork?

I used to heal (both tank and raid) and 99% of my time was focused on what I was doing, with the other 1% focused on on my team-mates because of some encounter mechanic that wasn’t dependant on the Trinity.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

What we have at the moment on GW2 is not actual content. 99% of the instances are like: Skip 80% of the mobs, and the ones that can’t be skipped, you pull to a corner and AoE them down. It requires zero skill, zero effort and zero team co-ordination.

That’s more down to rewards, the skipping. Not to mention what you’re describing is the trash rather than the boss encounter. In every MMO I’ve played, dungeon trash has always been easy to beat when you outgear the instance.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Atm GW2 is basically a game that requires no tactic or thinking, and all you have to do is just barely know the current meta. If you do know it, you can faceroll every single instance or encounter while being semi-afk playing with 1 hand.

So what you’re saying is that you don’t need to know any of the mechanics of any of the fights and you can still beat them?

If you want this to continue because you’re too lazy actually playing a challenging game, that’s fine, but please don’t say trinity is what makes a role playing boring…

But in essence Vayne is right. If you have to choose between Tank, Healer or DPS – or Control, Support and DPS as is in GW2 – the variety in builds goes right down to a grand total of 3. After all, if we’re talkiing about basic roles, GW2 could have any amalgam of:

• Movement Control (Cripple, Immobilize)
• Damage Control (Weakness, Blind)
• Healing Control (Poison)
• Direct Damage
• DoT
• Boon Stripping
• Healing (Healing, Condition Removal, Regen, Reviving)
• Offensive Support (Might, Fury)
• Defensive Support (Protection, Aegis)
• Field Provision

I don’t get why people are so stuck up on the fact that you need the Trinity to create engaging encounters. You don’t.

The Trinity, in essence, is only possible because there are 3 mechanics constantly needing attention: threat; outgoing damage and; incoming damage. Regardless of what else is going on in the fight or mechanics unique to that particular encounter, them 3 are a constant and will appear in every fight, thus keeping the players of these individual roles busy.

Taking that into consideration, GW2 could easily have encounters – both open-world and instanced – that required a bit more than just damage. All they would need is multiple mechanics that would need to be tending to happening at the same time.

This would open up more build diversity – since, unlike the Trinity, the encounters aren’t bound to needing a tank, healer and DPS – and at the same time, this would allow groups to choose their method of approach; everyone bring a little of everything an rotate that way or have a group where each player builds to combat a specific mechanic.

In Guild Wars 1, there was no Trinity. There were healers, and in some instances people would attempt to tank with the tools available to them, but rarely was this the most efficient or popular way of completing content. And yet, I honestly cannot remember anyone complaining about the lack of the Trinity in that game.

However, the combat and skill system in Guild Wars 1 was much more expansive in some respects. Conditional, sustained skills (Hexes and Enchantments), longer cast times and the prevalence of interrupts made for a system that encouraged people to try roles outside of pure or hybrid DPS.

Now, Guild Wars 2 actually does provide players with a great number of support tools (boons, condition management) and too often people forget that your standard Berserker Warrior is bringing along many, many support skills in the form of buffing banners. Likewise, your Berserker-geared Guardians, Mesmers and Elementalists are monsters of support and utility.

Admittedly, they are hybridised. They bring their utilities but they’re still trying to maximise their damage.

That wouldn’t change – that won’t change – with more traditional tank and healer-oriented skills. Those skills would simply slot into GW2’s system as further utilities and people would still sit around in their Berserker (or perhaps Sinister) gear, spewing their max damage, while taunting and leaking health at people.

What Guild Wars 2 needs is content that challenges this method as the most efficient way of progressing. We’re not lacking the tools to play pure control and support builds (especially with some of those Elite specs. on the horizon), we’re lacking the incentive. Hopefully, raids will be a step towards providing that incentive outside of PvP and WvW.

You want to swim in this trininy cesspool – go play something else like wow, ddo or some other crap that has this stupid game mechanic.

We already have whining about zerker ‘meta’ so i know from my experience with other mmo how this cesspool that you wanna in here will end…
I can see 3 classes used for grouping out of 8 (soon 9) – zerker meta will be replaced with tank+dps+healer meta which will result in 1warrior+3thief+1guardian – bye bye other classes.

All aboard the whine-train! Choo-choo!

No!
There in no place for this kind of stupidity in GW2 if you want something other – go ahead there are so many stupid games with that kind of crap around and stop spreading you commie propaganda and either adapt or get lost.

If you want to go back to LF healer/tank you can go ahead and find another game that does that...iam not doing that s***t again. Stop trying to change the game to fit YOUR needs.

Azumi.9572:

Agreed honestly. The current way the game works is basically like this:

Every can do anything. Everything is about YOU. All fights are individual.

Which removes the whole ‘team’ aspect. Everyone does damage. Everyone does support. Everyone heals.

<snip>

Which leads into…

Zerker meta. Why waste time building defense, health, healing, etc. when none of that matters since the whole point of every fight is to never ever be hit. You want pure damage. Always.

In PvP (and WvW) there are many builds and nobody can be everything. What you describe is not a failure of the game, it is a failure of PvE specifically. They need to beef up the AI and make it hard, not beef up the health and make it tedious.

+1 to true the Zerker meta is no more , its more Ice bow meta also Regular dungeons are now the Baby mode vs HoT content so you better be a Extremely good player to use Beserker gear, if you can’t handle it swap it some of it out rathar than Quoting " zerker is still meta" because its not condis do just as good and you’ll be needing Stronger Than base support to regen over that unavoidable damage.

blocks/evades/dodges only carry people so far beyond that is where real team play comes to hand and if everyone is still going to run pure zerker , I feel sorry for them atleast half of you or more casual players will suffer from it.

also to Op there is no Trinity only Damage/support/control Trinity all Values have important factors when compeleting content , though HoT content is Simply Harder and can not be Facerolled with one 1/3 of the gw2 trinity fighting with no control or support.

you may say be we do those , you only do those at a base Value with no improvements to those other two areas , Damage is still King “if you can stay alive” so control/support.

support/damage a Vast aray of builds become Viable in HoT because it is needed to Survive in group content.

solo play " don’t forget Mobs scale according to amount of players" so yes things do get easier when its just a solo player but in the end HoT content is designed for all Damage/support/control not just damage and that is where " zeker is no longer Meta" be cause you’ll be needing the other 2/3 beyond the basics to compelete the harder events.

gw2 trinity = damage/control/support
not= damage
not = tanker,healer, dps ether.

this game has been desgined way beyond the simply concepts of the old MMO’s systems this game includes the old system already and has taken steps Way Beyond what you’d consider a holy trinitiy.

gw2 is unique nothing like any other MMo out in history , its a stepping stone for the future of MMo’s.

good luck keep playing the baby content that has been nurfed a lot of the last few years i’d use Honour of the waves as a example instead of fighting it in the face most people resort to using Ranged to avoid the mechanics which i find so funny. " because a full zerk party is not stble enough to take the hits"

trinity also does not mean meta and meta does not mean Zerker

Meta = Most efficient tactics Applied (which is not Always pure Damage) and HoT made sure to change that, only if you are extemely good at fighting while wearing pure glass ( " see what i put pure glass" not beserker gear but condi is also Strong enough to Challenge content now) all that matters is can you Survive the gear is of indifference now everything each person does has a knock on effect to the player next you.

my fave is when a Rev Charges into a mob Pushing them all back into a low hp allie just recovering only for that mob to recover and kill said low hp player , you’d think you’d be helping by applying more Damage? no you just killed an ally. (control is important here)

Support back lines zone of recovery you saw the raid videos wha chance is there of recovery if everyone is dead on the frontlines , yes they heal but they also deal damage better support is not just more dodges/blocks/blinds its also life to extent the amount of dps uptime right now a pure zerker group can only last 30seconds vs current dungeon content and ice bow is carrying them right now.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Vayne.8563:

I’ll respond as I did on reddit:

If I never saw another game again with the trinity, it would be too soon. Just imagine how much fun Lord of the Rings would have been if all foes only attacked Boromir, while Gandalf stayed back and healed him and the hobbits, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli all dealt damage in relative safety.
You may believe, truly believe, that the trinity makes for a good game. But it’s contrived to the point where it removes everything that makes role-playing games great.

I don’t usually reply on general discussion forums because I don’t have time reading through 500 pages, but your reply is so totally wrong. It clearly shows that you have not played any serious MMO in it’s heyday if you think that healing the tank is the only tactic needed.

Maybe you have the impression that MMOs were always like how WoW or LOTRO is today, where they made everything so facerolling easy, all you need is a tank to run through pull the whole instance and stand in a corner AoE everything down…

Trinity, or better, roles is what makes a role playing game great. In serious MMOs for lets say a 12 man raid, you needed 1 tank, 1 off tank, 1 healer for the group, 1 healer for just the tanks, 2 support classes (1 buffer 1 debuffer), 2 ranged dps and 4 melee dps. Everyone of course needs to know exactly what he’s doing or the whole group will wipe because of 1 person. This is what makes a game great. It gives you the actual satisfaction that you acomplished something, and not just facerolled another instance.

What we have at the moment on GW2 is not actual content. 99% of the instances are like: Skip 80% of the mobs, and the ones that can’t be skipped, you pull to a corner and AoE them down. It requires zero skill, zero effort and zero team co-ordination.

Atm GW2 is basically a game that requires no tactic or thinking, and all you have to do is just barely know the current meta. If you do know it, you can faceroll every single instance or encounter while being semi-afk playing with 1 hand. If you want this to continue because you’re too lazy actually playing a challenging game, that’s fine, but please don’t say trinity is what makes a role playing boring…

Skipping 80% of the mobs is a choice people are choosing to make. I would rather see more people using different builds to clear the mobs, and do slower runs. But I also like being able to play solo, and not wait for the right team mate to complete a level. And you don’t need different rolls to make a team, you can choose different skills and gear to complement each other without class divides.

I will always miss a healer, that’s what i always play, and the games that i think got them right was Archmage in WAR och Priest in WoW. But archmage was way more fun playing as a healer. While Priest (shadow) was more fun DPS wise and pretty much everything else.

Right now it’s only and all about DPS, if you don’t dps and focus on something else like support you are doing it wrong. DPS outshines anything and everything else.

Maybe there are ways to go support for something, havent seen the need for it yet tho.

Tirien.1326:

I will always miss a healer, that’s what i always play, and the games that i think got them right was Archmage in WAR och Priest in WoW. But archmage was way more fun playing as a healer. While Priest (shadow) was more fun DPS wise and pretty much everything else.

Right now it’s only and all about DPS, if you don’t dps and focus on something else like support you are doing it wrong. DPS outshines anything and everything else.

Maybe there are ways to go support for something, havent seen the need for it yet tho.

This comes up a lot and it’s actually wrong. People run berserker’s (or assassin’s or sinister’s) stats but have a lot of support skills and traits.

Tirien.1326:

Maybe there are ways to go support for something, havent seen the need for it yet tho.

You haven’t played the game much if you say that.