They are contrary to the core game design that is fluid movement and quite frankly not that good over all, they need their self rooting thing removed.
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
Imagine 100b while chasing down a target…just no.
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
This.
Also, I’d rather not soil my pants at the sight of three Wars charging at me with Hundred Blades channeled.
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
The ammount of cc and/or immob needed for them to work just makes most of the self rooting melee skills useless.
A few examples:
gs warrior completely useless anyone can dodge 100blades. If you plan wasting utilities to cc the enemy they still can just stun break and walk away.
churning earth takes so long to cast that you will never land that in a 1v1 if the enemy knows how to dodge.
The few self root skills that work are the ones that have inherent stun or immob in the same skill or weapon set. Like pistol whip that comes with a stun and blurred frenzy that has the immob in the same weapon, making combos easy.
When was the last time you landed a complete 100blades in anything other than a pve boss that sits and eat the dmg?
They are contrary to the core game design that is fluid movement and quite frankly not that good over all, they need their self rooting thing removed.
Whirling Wrath is a good example of well designed skill. 100 blades is an example of a fail one. They could make 100blades more like whirling wrath removing the root and to compensate that reduce the dmg or increase the cd. For the wvw/spvp point of view it would make GS better, but for pve point of view it would be bad because the bosses are just HP sponge and don’t avoid your slow 100blades.
(edited by xDudisx.5914)
The ammount of cc and/or immob needed for them to work just makes most of the self rooting melee skills useless.
Hence, High skill and high reward.
gs warrior completely useless anyone can dodge 100blades. If you plan wasting utilities to cc the enemy they still can just stun break and walk away.
GS warrior does extremely high damage. Wasting utilties to CC the enemies is what should happen.
churning earth takes so long to cast that you will never land that in a 1v1 if the enemy knows how to dodge.
Churning Earth has a Cripple pulse. It also have a big AoE ring. Which means it is intended for team fights, not 1v1. Not every skill has to work for 1v1 situation.
The few self root skills that work are the ones that have inherent stun or immob in the same skill or weapon set. Like pistol whip that comes with a stun and blurred frenzy that has the immob in the same weapon, making combos easy.
It also come with a cost. The fact that you become a sitting duck. Players can focus fire on you.
When was the last time you landed a complete 100blades in anything other than a pve boss that sits and eat the dmg?
The GS/Longbow Warrior build is a viable build. I played a bit and I was able to get a lot of HB down on enemies. Opening with Bull’s Rush + Hundred blades allow me to get a high burst damage on the enemies. I can also use HB on downed enemies to make their hp go down and also get the resser’s hp down. If the enemies dodge out of the way, it isn’t a big deal, HB cd is only 8-10 seconds.
But to answer your question, the last time I landed a complete 100blades was 3 hours ago when I was playing with the GS/LB build.
The ammount of cc and/or immob needed for them to work just makes most of the self rooting melee skills useless.
Hence, High skill and high reward.
gs warrior completely useless anyone can dodge 100blades. If you plan wasting utilities to cc the enemy they still can just stun break and walk away.
GS warrior does extremely high damage. Wasting utilties to CC the enemies is what should happen.
churning earth takes so long to cast that you will never land that in a 1v1 if the enemy knows how to dodge.
Churning Earth has a Cripple pulse. It also have a big AoE ring. Which means it is intended for team fights, not 1v1. Not every skill has to work for 1v1 situation.
The few self root skills that work are the ones that have inherent stun or immob in the same skill or weapon set. Like pistol whip that comes with a stun and blurred frenzy that has the immob in the same weapon, making combos easy.
It also come with a cost. The fact that you become a sitting duck. Players can focus fire on you.
When was the last time you landed a complete 100blades in anything other than a pve boss that sits and eat the dmg?
The GS/Longbow Warrior build is a viable build. I played a bit and I was able to get a lot of HB down on enemies. Opening with Bull’s Rush + Hundred blades allow me to get a high burst damage on the enemies. I can also use HB on downed enemies to make their hp go down and also get the resser’s hp down. If the enemies dodge out of the way, it isn’t a big deal, HB cd is only 8-10 seconds.
But to answer your question, the last time I landed a complete 100blades was 3 hours ago when I was playing with the GS/LB build.
This +1
Although I’m mostly a PVE player, even I can see how powerful HB would be in PVP and why it must have a drawback to its use.
A good PVE example is COE when fighting Subject Alpha. You risk eating his massive AOEs when channeling HB, but if you catch the break between his AOEs you can pull off a full HB.
You might argue that the Ranger rapid fire doesn’t root you but it also only does at best half the damage a full HB does.
Sure, self-rooting can go… but the skill’s damage will drop to about 1/3 of what it is now.
ArenaNet attaches a HUGE effectiveness co-efficient to self-rooting skills. Modest risk nets monumental rewards…
You might argue that the Ranger rapid fire doesn’t root you but it also only does at best half the damage a full HB does.
The problem with that logic is that there is no such thing as a “full HB” in pvp, not when you can take 3 steps and be out of it.
If you repeatedly get caught by HB, Blurred frenzy and their ilk, you might just consider that pvp is simply not your thing.
Sure, self-rooting can go… but the skill’s damage will drop to about 1/3 of what it is now.
ArenaNet attaches a HUGE effectiveness co-efficient to self-rooting skills. Modest risk nets monumental rewards…
I think that is reasonable, that would at least make it useful for something other than cleaving downed invisible thiefs…
(edited by Apolo.5942)
The problem with that logic is that there is no such thing as a “full HB” in pvp, not when you can take 3 steps and be out of it.
Or I might have noticed most good players lead with a root before firing it.
The problem with that logic is that there is no such thing as a “full HB” in pvp, not when you can take 3 steps and be out of it.
Or I might have noticed most good players lead with a root before firing it.
What i have noticed is that some terrible players that run, no stability, condition cleansing or move impairing removal of any kind, some times run out of stability and fall for it…
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
Meanwhile “Rapid Fire” exist and is basically a mobile, ranged version of Hundred Blades.
Risk, Reward ?
Lol GS a weapon that is all about mobility has the most static and useless off the warrior weapons skills. Contradicting much?
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
Meanwhile “Rapid Fire” exist and is basically a mobile, ranged version of Hundred Blades.
Risk, Reward ?
Tell ya what — I’ll swap you Rapid Fire + the dumb-as-rocks pet/medium armor/medium HP for your HB + a class mechanic that actually works/high armor/high HP and see if you feel the exchange is equitable. If you want the class as a whole, roll a Ranger, but you can’t take the skills one at a time. Sorry.
Just imagine if retaliation completely fed the damage of melee back at the attacker, now remember rapid fire shot is a projectile based attack which that can potentially happen.
To all the warriors out there I wish I could say I am sorry that people learned how to play before you tired of using greatsword (or started warrior), but I can’t not with any sincerity.
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
True and i support this.
but 100b became High risk NO reward skill.
it got nerfed several times.
It depends, for some skills just no (100B) for some others yes (Ranger Sword #1)
Sure, self-rooting can go… but the skill’s damage will drop to about 1/3 of what it is now.
ArenaNet attaches a HUGE effectiveness co-efficient to self-rooting skills. Modest risk nets monumental rewards…
Like Blurred Frenzy? Which has a longer cd than 100b and does less than 1/2 of its damage? Less than Pistol Whip (which also has evasion frames)?
Whats high risk about 100b? You can just move whenever you want, you just end the 100b early.
The moment it is no longer worth continuing the channel you just break it and move. That’s not a risk.
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
Meanwhile “Rapid Fire” exist and is basically a mobile, ranged version of Hundred Blades.
Risk, Reward ?
It is also much weaker, and can be reflected.
Also, remember, that not every weapon is meant for every gameplay mode. Warrior hammers, for example, are next to useless in PvE. 100b is primarily a PvE-balanced skill.
I am OK with all self-rooting skills besides ranger sword 1.
Auto-attack should never root you. Choosing a self-root should be a choice, not your main skill. Turning off auto-attack doesn’t sound like a fix more like a band-aid.
So, self-rooting on Ranger sword 1 needs to go, that I can agree on.
Sure, self-rooting can go… but the skill’s damage will drop to about 1/3 of what it is now.
ArenaNet attaches a HUGE effectiveness co-efficient to self-rooting skills. Modest risk nets monumental rewards…
Like Blurred Frenzy? Which has a longer cd than 100b and does less than 1/2 of its damage? Less than Pistol Whip (which also has evasion frames)?
you want really take Blurred Frenzy as an example? really?! a skill which is half offensive and half defensive? and you complain about it’s damage? just lol…
Sure, self-rooting can go… but the skill’s damage will drop to about 1/3 of what it is now.
ArenaNet attaches a HUGE effectiveness co-efficient to self-rooting skills. Modest risk nets monumental rewards…
Like Blurred Frenzy? Which has a longer cd than 100b and does less than 1/2 of its damage? Less than Pistol Whip (which also has evasion frames)?
you want really take Blurred Frenzy as an example? really?! a skill which is half offensive and half defensive? and you complain about it’s damage? just lol…
Read Pistol Whip kitten, it not only evades just like Blurred Frenzy, it stuns before hand and does significantly more damage to boot and can be chained several times.
Besides calling Blurred Frenzy defensive when it’s meant to be a buffer for the fact a mesmer has 2-3k less hp than a warrior and an inferior healing per second (signet of the there is a way worse heal than healing signet) is just dumb.
But it’s arguably harder to use those evade frames on purpose because of the delay.
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
Meanwhile “Rapid Fire” exist and is basically a mobile, ranged version of Hundred Blades.
Risk, Reward ?
Tell ya what — I’ll swap you Rapid Fire + the dumb-as-rocks pet/medium armor/medium HP for your HB + a class mechanic that actually works/high armor/high HP and see if you feel the exchange is equitable. If you want the class as a whole, roll a Ranger, but you can’t take the skills one at a time. Sorry.
Weird cus i moved to pewpew ranger from warrior and right now i faceroll any warrior i meet, i dont even care what build they run. Youre free to try use that “high hp, high armor and f1” joke against me but i wont give you a bandage. Prepare to roflstomp and /laugh emotion.
And hb is not great anymore, its actually quite weak skill with all the nerfs that happened overtime. Axe aa is actually stronger than hb yet mobile. Where is dat high risk high reward ppl talking about? If anything its high fun watching some noob dying to hb and low reward considering it joke damage.
Rapid Fire is equal in damage actually as while it actually hit a bit less, it also takes shorter time to pull off (2, 1/2sec vs 3,5s).
From a point of pvp you never ever be able to press 2 on gs vs any decent player as its kitteneless ability unless you dedicate your offset/utility to land it and even then, ppl can break out of stun/immo without any problem, just look at staff mesmer which can teleport every 8 sec out of stun/immo. Theres no such thing as high risk high reward stuff anymore, get over it.
depends on specific skill, if you are such a knowledgeable pvp player as to condescendingly lecture people on that topic you should be able to understand that mobility is part of the overall balancing of skills.
IMO Self-root skill need to go as the OP said but not in way that you have to remove it entirely.
A skill such as 100b need a movement speed debuff such as Whirling Wrath but the movement speed debuff need to be somewhere around 75%-80%. So in other word, the warrior will be moving really slow almost as if he isn’t that moving but he isn’t completely stop either and he will be able to turn while using 100b.
I can only venture the assumption that these skills (in their design) are a byproduct on Anet’s obsession with node capture conquest spvp.
In the PvP lobby it takes 20 seconds to kill a heavy armor golem with
a) auto-attacking with a one-handed sword
or
b) auto-attacking with a greatsword and 2 HB.
Knowing that how is HB a “high damage” skill????
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
Meanwhile “Rapid Fire” exist and is basically a mobile, ranged version of Hundred Blades.
Risk, Reward ?
Tell ya what — I’ll swap you Rapid Fire + the dumb-as-rocks pet/medium armor/medium HP for your HB + a class mechanic that actually works/high armor/high HP and see if you feel the exchange is equitable. If you want the class as a whole, roll a Ranger, but you can’t take the skills one at a time. Sorry.
You don’t want that, honey. Glassbow Ranger is stronger than Zerker Warrior.
i agree and the warrior gs op should go with it as well.
The ammount of cc and/or immob needed for them to work just makes most of the self rooting melee skills useless.
Hence, High skill and high reward.
gs warrior completely useless anyone can dodge 100blades. If you plan wasting utilities to cc the enemy they still can just stun break and walk away.
GS warrior does extremely high damage. Wasting utilties to CC the enemies is what should happen.
churning earth takes so long to cast that you will never land that in a 1v1 if the enemy knows how to dodge.
Churning Earth has a Cripple pulse. It also have a big AoE ring. Which means it is intended for team fights, not 1v1. Not every skill has to work for 1v1 situation.
The few self root skills that work are the ones that have inherent stun or immob in the same skill or weapon set. Like pistol whip that comes with a stun and blurred frenzy that has the immob in the same weapon, making combos easy.
It also come with a cost. The fact that you become a sitting duck. Players can focus fire on you.
When was the last time you landed a complete 100blades in anything other than a pve boss that sits and eat the dmg?
The GS/Longbow Warrior build is a viable build. I played a bit and I was able to get a lot of HB down on enemies. Opening with Bull’s Rush + Hundred blades allow me to get a high burst damage on the enemies. I can also use HB on downed enemies to make their hp go down and also get the resser’s hp down. If the enemies dodge out of the way, it isn’t a big deal, HB cd is only 8-10 seconds.
But to answer your question, the last time I landed a complete 100blades was 3 hours ago when I was playing with the GS/LB build.
It is not ‘’high skill high rewared’’. It is actually impossible to land a complete 100blades in a 1v1 vs any decent player and the reward is not that great. If it was only a player skill issue then we would see people using GS on tournaments, which is not the case.
If a player take full 100blades dmg that is because they are completly noobs. In a hotjoin MM works, does not mean it will work when facing a competent player.
And about gs/lb, it is not viable. No one is using it in tournaments because it is several times worse than a shoutbow or the old hambow.
In regards to Flurry (War Sword), it’s actually fine as a self-root due to the immob.
However
Warriors Greatsword 2, 100b, need to be changed to work like Guardian Greatsword 2, Whirling Wrath. Whirling Wrath allows you to continue to move, at a reduced speed.
100b SHOULD allow you to move, at a reduced speed as well.
Fought a hammer/gs warrior in pvp yesterday on my engy… Needless to say, the high risk/high reward play is DEFINITELY viable…
Sure, self-rooting can go… but the skill’s damage will drop to about 1/3 of what it is now.
ArenaNet attaches a HUGE effectiveness co-efficient to self-rooting skills. Modest risk nets monumental rewards…
Like Blurred Frenzy? Which has a longer cd than 100b and does less than 1/2 of its damage? Less than Pistol Whip (which also has evasion frames)?
Is this one of those threads? Where we downplay or even ignore class mechanics and compare skills side by side to further our own agendas?
You know full well why blurred frenzy is less damage I would hope.
Your auto attack is poor damage as well
In fact all mesmer weapon damage is pretty pitiful compared to alternatives, why? Because their class mechanics are built that way, your illusions and shattering them is what you’re supposed to use to make up the difference, but you know that right? Please say yes.
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
The problem is in a game where you can move while using nearly every ability and everyone has a regularly available dodge mechanic, there is never any chance of ‘reward’ with these skills. That isn’t true in most games, there are tons of channels and self-rooted skills and most classes have no evasion, especially among the squishier magic themed classes, but none of that is true in GW2. And because of that, for those few rooted skills there are, unless you manage to find a completely immobilized opponent, they are basically empty slots.
For example, I faced a celestial DD elementalist in PvP a few days ago, I think I must have kittened her off by beating her in a duel over mid at the start of the game, because she was gunning for me for the entire remainder of the match.
But man, it was sad, she invested so much in to hitting with RTL>Updraft and Churning Earth>Lightning strike, we must have fought several dozen times over the duration of the game, she just kept coming after me, whether solo or in a group. And she never hit me once with either combo, used them at least a couple times each fight. And I’m really not that good of a player, 40ish percent win rate, Dolyak rank, and I play the suckiest builds because they’re fun. That game for example I played a SF build with clerics and max uptime on weakness and chill.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
Fought a hammer/gs warrior in pvp yesterday on my engy… Needless to say, the high risk/high reward play is DEFINITELY viable…
Ok, so you cant doge, run no elixir, no CC and cant seem to avoid a the hammer telegraphed stun. So what is your point exactly?
Here’s where it gets annoying between PvE and PvP:
Nerf HB damage, increase movement = A complete buff to HB in PvP and a complete nerf to HB in PvE. I don’t think warriors need another nerf in PvE.
Nerf ranger LB rapid fire = Maybe you will have stopped something “OP” in PvP, but you’d also destroy something every PvE ranger wanted since launch, to put the “range” back in “ranger.”
On the other hand, I think a rethink of the ranger 1hSword would benefit both game modes:
1. The autopilot serves close to no purpose in PvE, it’s has way too many downsides. One of of which is needing to turn auto-attack off -> You lose DPS if you want to type something real quick
2. Yes, there are people in PvP who are really good at micro managing the targeting system and using the autopilot to fly in and out of the playing field but…
3. I don’t see the weapon being used often for offense in PvP at all. I think PvP build diversity would benefit more from removing this autopilot and making this a more flexible melee weapon.
Fought a hammer/gs warrior in pvp yesterday on my engy… Needless to say, the high risk/high reward play is DEFINITELY viable…
If engineer loses to a warrior… yeah ill better stop here.
Sure, self-rooting can go… but the skill’s damage will drop to about 1/3 of what it is now.
ArenaNet attaches a HUGE effectiveness co-efficient to self-rooting skills. Modest risk nets monumental rewards…
Like Blurred Frenzy? Which has a longer cd than 100b and does less than 1/2 of its damage? Less than Pistol Whip (which also has evasion frames)?
Is this one of those threads? Where we downplay or even ignore class mechanics and compare skills side by side to further our own agendas?
You know full well why blurred frenzy is less damage I would hope.
Your auto attack is poor damage as well
In fact all mesmer weapon damage is pretty pitiful compared to alternatives, why? Because their class mechanics are built that way, your illusions and shattering them is what you’re supposed to use to make up the difference, but you know that right? Please say yes.
What a pitifully deluded response. Shatters hit for next to no meaningful damage in pve, each clone crits for at best 3k used on all clones it’s a pathetic 9k that happens to destroy your phantasms, which are your only source of sustained damage (and who are still deficient because you need 2-3 active to reach the sustained damage levels of other classes).
But by all means make the pvp noob argument that mesmers are balanced around their illusions and shatters when both illusions and shatters do pathetic damage and die almost immediately as they spawn in PvE scenarios. It is straight off the rationalization playbook most pvp’ers make when they justify the pathetic state the mesmer is in where people only use them for time warp, veil, portal and feedback. That’s right, a gimmick class.
A Burning Speed achieves virtually the same outcome as a blurred frenzy, evading damage, but happens to hit for nearly double the amount of damage, creates a fire field for might stacking, and serves as a gap closer to boot.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
Sure, self-rooting can go… but the skill’s damage will drop to about 1/3 of what it is now.
ArenaNet attaches a HUGE effectiveness co-efficient to self-rooting skills. Modest risk nets monumental rewards…
Like Blurred Frenzy? Which has a longer cd than 100b and does less than 1/2 of its damage? Less than Pistol Whip (which also has evasion frames)?
Is this one of those threads? Where we downplay or even ignore class mechanics and compare skills side by side to further our own agendas?
You know full well why blurred frenzy is less damage I would hope.
Your auto attack is poor damage as well
In fact all mesmer weapon damage is pretty pitiful compared to alternatives, why? Because their class mechanics are built that way, your illusions and shattering them is what you’re supposed to use to make up the difference, but you know that right? Please say yes.
What a pitifully deluded response. Shatters hit for next to no meaningful damage in pve, each clone crits for at best 3k used on all clones it’s a pathetic 9k that happens to destroy your phantasms, which are your only source of sustained damage (and who are still deficient because you need 2-3 active to reach the sustained damage levels of other classes).
But by all means make the pvp noob argument that mesmers are balanced around their illusions and shatters when both illusions and shatters do pathetic damage and die almost immediately as they spawn in PvE scenarios. It is straight off the rationalization playbook most pvp’ers make when they justify the pathetic state the mesmer is in where people only use them for time warp, veil, portal and feedback. That’s right, a gimmick class.
A Burning Speed achieves virtually the same outcome as a blurred frenzy, evading damage, but happens to hit for nearly double the amount of damage, creates a fire field for might stacking, and serves as a gap closer to boot.
First, burning speed is a very small evade while blurred frenzy is iirc 1.5s, quite useful.
Second, Phantasm builds have the potential to do very competitive damage.
Third, You’re right. The practical application of damage with mesmers is pretty iffy at best. Shatter builds are just burst with no sustain. Phantasm Builds have a high potential but you rarely achieve it because of their inability to stay alive very long against many PVE bosses, combine that with the slow ramp up time and the completely impractical use on trash mobs, well, you’re just left with a profession that lacks damage when you actually play it in most situations.
However, things were done for a reason. The potential is still there. You can’t really double the damage of mesmers weapons without addressing the potential they do have in their illusions. Not saying mesmers are designed well, but they are what they are.
Also, again look at the classes holistically. Mesmers also have some of the most useful utilities and elites in the game across all game modes.
And yes portal/veil/mass haste/mass invis/null field/whateverthehellthereflectiscalled are all a part of the overall calculation of the class. Of course they are.
In the case of 100B, it’s very high damage on a very low cooldown with a disadvantage that you lose damage on mobile enemies — BUT THE OP IS INCORRECT in that it is not self-rooting. It’s a channel that’s broken by movement. There’s really very low risk to 100B compared to melee aside from the temptation to stay in getting more hits when you should move out of the way.
The ammount of cc and/or immob needed for them to work just makes most of the self rooting melee skills useless.
Hence, High skill and high reward.
gs warrior completely useless anyone can dodge 100blades. If you plan wasting utilities to cc the enemy they still can just stun break and walk away.
GS warrior does extremely high damage. Wasting utilties to CC the enemies is what should happen.
churning earth takes so long to cast that you will never land that in a 1v1 if the enemy knows how to dodge.
Churning Earth has a Cripple pulse. It also have a big AoE ring. Which means it is intended for team fights, not 1v1. Not every skill has to work for 1v1 situation.
The few self root skills that work are the ones that have inherent stun or immob in the same skill or weapon set. Like pistol whip that comes with a stun and blurred frenzy that has the immob in the same weapon, making combos easy.
It also come with a cost. The fact that you become a sitting duck. Players can focus fire on you.
When was the last time you landed a complete 100blades in anything other than a pve boss that sits and eat the dmg?
The GS/Longbow Warrior build is a viable build. I played a bit and I was able to get a lot of HB down on enemies. Opening with Bull’s Rush + Hundred blades allow me to get a high burst damage on the enemies. I can also use HB on downed enemies to make their hp go down and also get the resser’s hp down. If the enemies dodge out of the way, it isn’t a big deal, HB cd is only 8-10 seconds.
But to answer your question, the last time I landed a complete 100blades was 3 hours ago when I was playing with the GS/LB build.
It is not ‘’high skill high rewared’’. It is actually impossible to land a complete 100blades in a 1v1 vs any decent player and the reward is not that great. If it was only a player skill issue then we would see people using GS on tournaments, which is not the case.
If a player take full 100blades dmg that is because they are completly noobs. In a hotjoin MM works, does not mean it will work when facing a competent player.
And about gs/lb, it is not viable. No one is using it in tournaments because it is several times worse than a shoutbow or the old hambow.
You might as well say, it is actually impossible to land anything worthwhile in a 1v1 vs any decent player. If you want to pull the “Skillz players can dodge dis!” card
I fought someone that dodged all my most important d/d ele attacks because he was simply more skilled than me even if my skills are not self-rooted.
But yeah, GS/LB isn’t meta. But what you are wrong is that GS/LB doesn’t need a buff, it is that cele stuff needs a nerf.
I smell a 100 blades warrior who’s just mad that people can walk away.
No, they don’t need to go because the only thing preventing them from being uninhibitedly OP as kittens is the fact that they root the caster in place. If they did “go” they’d either be nerfed to obscurity via damage reduction or CD increase and cast time increase, or just replaced all together by other skills.
As if landing a mace burst stun into a 100b is hard…Before any loser says stunbreaks, the cd’s on stunbreaks are magnitudes longer than the relative short cd’s on mace burst stun and 100b so you just bait the stunbreak and within the next 10 seconds you can successfully land a stun into a 7-8k 100b.
Also, again look at the classes holistically. Mesmers also have some of the most useful utilities and elites in the game across all game modes.
And yes portal/veil/mass haste/mass invis/null field/whateverthehellthereflectiscalled are all a part of the overall calculation of the class. Of course they are.
In the case of 100B, it’s very high damage on a very low cooldown with a disadvantage that you lose damage on mobile enemies — BUT THE OP IS INCORRECT in that it is not self-rooting. It’s a channel that’s broken by movement. There’s really very low risk to 100B compared to melee aside from the temptation to stay in getting more hits when you should move out of the way.
Oh, please, not this crap again. Warriors bring banners, powerful utility EXCLUSIVE to them (while reflects guardians can achieve with higher uptime, so the only exclusive utility a mesmer has is the niche portal use), on top of might and fury stacking, and being able to load up 25 vulnerability stacks easy.
Eles bring projectiles deflection, boon stacking with fire fields, aoe condi clear and CC on top of group healing, on TOP of the highest damage ingame with conjures.
Thieves bring stealth for easy skipping and rez, a spammable blind field to make trash pulls in fractal 50 a joke, on top of being top single target damage.
Guardians, I need not say more. Better reflect uptime than mesmer, better burst and sustained damage, better group defense with aegis and protection, better CC as well.
So let’s not pretend like mesmer has this huge amount of utility relative to the other classes that justifies its pathetic damage, because it simply is not true. Mesmer utility is one of the most redundant utilities since outside portal and illusionary disenchanter/null field, all his other utilities are outshined by either guardian (longer projectile protection) or thief (longer stealth).
(edited by Zenith.7301)
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
The problem is in a game where you can move while using nearly every ability and everyone has a regularly available dodge mechanic, there is never any chance of ‘reward’ with these skills. That isn’t true in most games, there are tons of channels and self-rooted skills and most classes have no evasion, especially among the squishier magic themed classes, but none of that is true in GW2. And because of that, for those few rooted skills there are, unless you manage to find a completely immobilized opponent, they are basically empty slots.
For example, I faced a celestial DD elementalist in PvP a few days ago, I think I must have kittened her off by beating her in a duel over mid at the start of the game, because she was gunning for me for the entire remainder of the match.
But man, it was sad, she invested so much in to hitting with RTL>Updraft and Churning Earth>Lightning strike, we must have fought several dozen times over the duration of the game, she just kept coming after me, whether solo or in a group. And she never hit me once with either combo, used them at least a couple times each fight. And I’m really not that good of a player, 40ish percent win rate, Dolyak rank, and I play the suckiest builds because they’re fun. That game for example I played a SF build with clerics and max uptime on weakness and chill.
There is a chance.
When you see the enemy dodge twice and know that the enemy had popped up his utilities earlier. That is when you get that chance.
Zenith: You’re focusing on only pve which largely misses my point, the mesmer skills are useful in general. They’re exceptionally useful in pvp and wvw which is where the channeling limitation on 100B actually matters
I mean I get downplaying, but c’mon now :p
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
The problem is in a game where you can move while using nearly every ability and everyone has a regularly available dodge mechanic, there is never any chance of ‘reward’ with these skills. That isn’t true in most games, there are tons of channels and self-rooted skills and most classes have no evasion, especially among the squishier magic themed classes, but none of that is true in GW2. And because of that, for those few rooted skills there are, unless you manage to find a completely immobilized opponent, they are basically empty slots.
For example, I faced a celestial DD elementalist in PvP a few days ago, I think I must have kittened her off by beating her in a duel over mid at the start of the game, because she was gunning for me for the entire remainder of the match.
But man, it was sad, she invested so much in to hitting with RTL>Updraft and Churning Earth>Lightning strike, we must have fought several dozen times over the duration of the game, she just kept coming after me, whether solo or in a group. And she never hit me once with either combo, used them at least a couple times each fight. And I’m really not that good of a player, 40ish percent win rate, Dolyak rank, and I play the suckiest builds because they’re fun. That game for example I played a SF build with clerics and max uptime on weakness and chill.
There is a chance.
When you see the enemy dodge twice and know that the enemy had popped up his utilities earlier. That is when you get that chance.
So if your opponent blows all of his defensive skills at the same, and you have a very long duration lockdown setup, that you, conveniently, have not used in a long enough fight for your opponent to have blown all his CDs and both dodges, then you can actually hit with these skills?
Seriously? Does anybody ever see that happening against an opponent that would be even slightly challenging in the first place? Your ‘chance’ isn’t really chance to use the skill, it is a chance to face an opponent of significantly lesser skill, in which case most anything should do and you these skills still are not optimal.
And what on earth would the output of such a skill have to be to be for either that chance (because there is no guarantee those circumstances will ever be met) or that setup to be worth it? We’re not talking about playing Wrath of God here and wiping the board, most of the skills in question are just higher than average damage as compared to any group of skills you can use in the same timeframe, except you can use those while staying in range of your opponent.
As if landing a mace burst stun into a 100b is hard…Before any loser says stunbreaks, the cd’s on stunbreaks are magnitudes longer than the relative short cd’s on mace burst stun and 100b so you just bait the stunbreak and within the next 10 seconds you can successfully land a stun into a 7-8k 100b.
Also, again look at the classes holistically. Mesmers also have some of the most useful utilities and elites in the game across all game modes.
And yes portal/veil/mass haste/mass invis/null field/whateverthehellthereflectiscalled are all a part of the overall calculation of the class. Of course they are.
In the case of 100B, it’s very high damage on a very low cooldown with a disadvantage that you lose damage on mobile enemies — BUT THE OP IS INCORRECT in that it is not self-rooting. It’s a channel that’s broken by movement. There’s really very low risk to 100B compared to melee aside from the temptation to stay in getting more hits when you should move out of the way.
Oh, please, not this crap again. Warriors bring banners, powerful utility EXCLUSIVE to them (while reflects guardians can achieve with higher uptime, so the only exclusive utility a mesmer has is the niche portal use), on top of might and fury stacking, and being able to load up 25 vulnerability stacks easy.
Eles bring projectiles deflection, boon stacking with fire fields, aoe condi clear and CC on top of group healing, on TOP of the highest damage ingame with conjures.
Thieves bring stealth for easy skipping and rez, a spammable blind field to make trash pulls in fractal 50 a joke, on top of being top single target damage.
Guardians, I need not say more. Better reflect uptime than mesmer, better burst and sustained damage, better group defense with aegis and protection, better CC as well.
So let’s not pretend like mesmer has this huge amount of utility relative to the other classes that justifies its pathetic damage, because it simply is not true. Mesmer utility is one of the most redundant utilities since outside portal and illusionary disenchanter/null field, all his other utilities are outshined by either guardian (longer projectile protection) or thief (longer stealth).
That’s incorrect on the projectile protection from mesmer/guard. I still like mesmers plenty even if they are only there for utility and it often overlaps with guardian.
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
The problem is in a game where you can move while using nearly every ability and everyone has a regularly available dodge mechanic, there is never any chance of ‘reward’ with these skills. That isn’t true in most games, there are tons of channels and self-rooted skills and most classes have no evasion, especially among the squishier magic themed classes, but none of that is true in GW2. And because of that, for those few rooted skills there are, unless you manage to find a completely immobilized opponent, they are basically empty slots.
For example, I faced a celestial DD elementalist in PvP a few days ago, I think I must have kittened her off by beating her in a duel over mid at the start of the game, because she was gunning for me for the entire remainder of the match.
But man, it was sad, she invested so much in to hitting with RTL>Updraft and Churning Earth>Lightning strike, we must have fought several dozen times over the duration of the game, she just kept coming after me, whether solo or in a group. And she never hit me once with either combo, used them at least a couple times each fight. And I’m really not that good of a player, 40ish percent win rate, Dolyak rank, and I play the suckiest builds because they’re fun. That game for example I played a SF build with clerics and max uptime on weakness and chill.
There is a chance.
When you see the enemy dodge twice and know that the enemy had popped up his utilities earlier. That is when you get that chance.
So if your opponent blows all of his defensive skills at the same, and you have a very long duration lockdown setup, that you, conveniently, have not used in a long enough fight for your opponent to have blown all his CDs and both dodges, then you can actually hit with these skills?
Seriously? Does anybody ever see that happening against an opponent that would be even slightly challenging in the first place? Your ‘chance’ isn’t really chance to use the skill, it is a chance to face an opponent of significantly lesser skill, in which case most anything should do and you these skills still are not optimal.
And what on earth would the output of such a skill have to be to be for either that chance (because there is no guarantee those circumstances will ever be met) or that setup to be worth it? We’re not talking about playing Wrath of God here and wiping the board, most of the skills in question are just higher than average damage as compared to any group of skills you can use in the same timeframe, except you can use those while staying in range of your opponent.
To pressure, I use the F1 Longbow to pressure the enemy into moving away. Then I use some longbow skills and then when I think the enemy won’t dodge the pin down, I use it. Thats when I use Rush + Hundred blades or just hundred blades if I am close already. Pin down is 25 sec, HB is 10 sec, Rush is 15 sec. Very cheap in cost. Bull’s rush is reserved for that opening or it can be used for emergency escape.
Also, GW2 is a team game. GS/LB role is the same as D/P thief without stealth. When the enemy is busy with my teammate, I gank them down.
GS/LB and D/P Both have great mobility, great damage. Except, D/P has teleports and stealth. So I guess thats why GS/LB isn’t meta. Because D/P has a superior gank role.
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